 What's up everybody welcome back to for the minions the weekly vodcast all about upcoming third-person MOBAs What we've got this week. We've got updates for Ethereal over prime fault and predecessor. We got all four this week. We got all four for once. Thank God Bingo Thank God and That'll all be timestamped in the description below and then um We did do the poll this week and then our discussion topic We'll be talking about sort of the fairness of comparing these games and um, which I don't think we've actually Discussed ourselves. So that's gonna be that's gonna be interesting and So, uh, yeah, I'm your host the man goose joining me as always my friend and co-host jelly knees jelly. How you doing? I am fan-tastic man goose happy to be here with you You wonderful man because we're gonna keep this going and with us this week. We've got Papa K. How you doing Papa K? Hey guys, well, um, I'm excited to be here. I'll watch it. I keep up and yeah I'm excited to buy the games. Awesome. Well, talk to us about how you got involved with Paragon or the Paragon successors Like who your character was what lane you played all those good things Okay, um, so I started off on Paragon when it first released the PlayStation 4 I think it was the beta. It was the first. It was the early beta artist I ended up playing Chimera because I don't know. He just looks badass, you know jumping on people killing people and then I've gravitated to more when the game was more like a lot more characters I was with Wukong and Seraph and Aurora. They were like the main people I played. I was constant I think I got my first pentakill with Seraph at the enemy in him by myself and from Nanon. Yeah, she was my main So hang on here. You've got Chimera one of the most toxic characters in the game Seraph one of the most toxic characters in the game Aurora one of the most toxic characters in the game and Wukong One of the most toxic characters in the game. Great. Yeah, we're really That's what I was thinking when you were listening to those all but I was like those are all heroes that people Absolutely love to hate and have gotten demolished by but if you're the one doing the demolishing Seraph was so much respect for Seraph players. I could not I don't have the hand-eye coordination for that You had to be on top of your game to play Seraph really well Much respect. She could heal off of like if there's a bunch of minions You can be fighting a five fighting a five team and heal instantly just from a I can't remember what it was called when she would like the angelic thing where she would attack all the minions within the space ridiculous I Used to say that Seraph and Ian would make you afraid of your own minion wave Like you didn't want to fight in your own minions because they would just heal off of them Oh All right, well, let's move on to the updates We're gonna bump Ethereal up to the front cuz we got some exclusive content from them. They've got their new map where you work We've heard about this before and we know that they have ice void and fire lane But now the ice lane looks like ice the fire lane looks all desolate and burned out and void lane just looks Prettier and I will be rolling that footage of the map up above. So let's talk about this So okay, you just now watch this. What were your impressions of the the map? Wow Seriously, I just got wowed the animations The frost I would I would I've got a question with the dragons. I don't know if you're allowed to say this But I saw the dragon was in ice So does it like it does it submerge from the ice or is it already out of it? Like that's it and within the fire fire realm as well and how does the like the different? Elements of the world does it affect the gameplay because I just saw so much going on It was it was so beautiful and that was the beginning part, but just so many questions going through my head So it's something that we've actually talked about in the future of having The spawning of like the ice dragon come from that that shape that's in the back of the cave for now It doesn't but it is something we've definitely thought about and like have ideas for going forward as well And then there was a little teaser at the end Yeah, if you watch the map video all the way through it starts to kind of looks like it glitches out looks like there's something wrong with it We've talked about it on ETE already malware's kit is going to be revealed soon So now malware kind of making his way in infecting the game He's a kind of a sentient computer virus that's taking over biological lifeforms Jelly now you were telling me that the new map even though it looks better runs better than the older map that it's better optimized Yeah, the vast majority of women what we've seen in our testing group is that even with the improvements It's still running better. It's at least running the same or better on the vast majority of machines Which I think is awesome because it looks better the feedback from our testers when they first got on the map We're just blown away by how good everything looks now in comparison to what it was before and That graininess that used to be part of the game you guys identified the problem with that and fix that as well, right? Yep, absolutely something to do with our post-processing. I think mm-hmm So that's that yeah, that's pretty pretty awesome Okay, have you gotten a chance to play a theory a little during these weekends? I have a recorded a few clips, but I'm really bad at masking keyboard So if you watch me play I'll be like shooting or aiming with one bit and then I'll be facing the floor I'll face in the ceiling It's crazy like the game felt so good but one thing I want to say is I Really got frustrated at one point where I had to leave the room and come back and play because I didn't know how to fly Hope with is it Leo Leo? Yeah, and I couldn't find it within the ability tab because I thought it'd be her passive But it wasn't a passive and then I switched on the settings and it was shift and wow The frustration I got from that, but the game feels amazing I'm excited to see where you look you guys kind of taking it in terms of the gameplay so unique and I feel like all the characters are So out there. They're so extreme, but that's what balances the game Yeah, absolutely, and that's it's kind of everyone has their moment to shine right and in their various kids and their various aesthetics and all of that and When malware gets revealed this weekend that you'll see even further than that We we're going above and beyond kind of raising the bar a little bit with myth kids on this one Speaking of which the this weekend should be tomorrow if you're watching this today, right? Would be the will be the community corner of the live community corner to come out It's gonna be you and skip there. Great. Yeah So, yeah, I'll be those two talking about a theory. You're going over any updates going over the roadmap All sorts of stuff they're going to cover in that including malware's kit, which they haven't specifically said It's gonna be malware. Yeah, but there's all the teasers It's like it's like a fault teaser right now. Like we know it's thing now to show Just show the whole thing, dude And I will say controller support is on our roadmap So we'll be something you'll be able to see exactly where that falls when it comes out on the Saturday as well I'm really glad we that I learned that you're you're mainly a controller guy, okay? Because I'm always interested to learn which of these games feel the best on a controller Because that's a big deal for a lot of people and it's something that I have Zero experience with it because I've never even tried to play him on a controller Okay, so Fault feels surprisingly good on a controller I feel like there's one issue they have and I don't allow you to button map The controller well or maybe it's to do with steam but on so for example a game like smite You can use the left analog stick where you can press it down and press another button at the same time so I have more options to use items and Active cards whereas on this I can't I have to literally pick between two or three because I can only press two or three Oh four buttons actually at a time So I can't press one two three four five six and use all of my cards if I needed to I hope a prime was really smooth, but someone from the discord made a Pre-set for the control pad so it felt exactly like Paragon felt on the ps4 So if unbelievably smooth and whatever they've done the games runs very well Only issue is turning left and right sensitive. He isn't the most smooth Right on I'd actually heard people say that over problems controller support wasn't great, but like Okay, well, I'll get I'll get to that when we get into over problem Let's close out on a theory all for now I don't know if you guys have anything else you wanted to say about a theory before we move on to Think about the map. Oh fan fucking tastic, especially if it's better optimized The caves look so much better the the Wyvern Wyvern caves I didn't really and didn't get no more giant snowball on the side of ice. Yeah Yes, I'm about to ask like I didn't get to see it But like the whole green of ice lane with this big fucking snowball sticking out of the side of it Yeah, I used to hate that but yeah, that'll be cleared up now It's going to be visually stunning My only concern especially with ice lane is headaches because I get migraines quite a bit and I don't know if that's going to be too much Brightness for me. So I don't know if there'll be an maybe an option to turn that down or maybe it just won't be As bad as I'm thinking it is but I think just staring at constant white I'll have to get some sunglasses on if I want to go ice lane When you're going to ice lane sunglasses on when you jump off Exactly something we're actually really Taking a look at with our testers and talking to them about as well is because we know ice lane is really bright because it's a lot of white And light blues and all of that kind of stuff It's going to be something we have to watch carefully So as we get feedback from our testers on that that's will adjust accordingly and make it as accessible to all Maybe even throw in a setting there to help as well, right? I mean if you remember with Faze and Paragon her original blind would white your screen. It was like getting flash banged And it was giving people migraines. It was giving people headaches in which they had They had to change it to the the the dark out instead of the white out. So Yeah, I don't know. But yeah, the theory was really fun. If you guys haven't tried it out yet Just a great time all around like like you guys said everybody's overpowered in their own way Which makes the game balanced No, one is right. That's It's like movie quote. You might be like it It might be fucked up to that like that's a little fucked up that character can fly But then you're like it's a little fucked up that has grabbed that flying character through him under a tower Exactly see everybody's up to that that Malaya got to one HP and now she's a full again You know everybody has their thing everybody has their niche in ethereal. That's yep like extremely strong and can be oppressive, but It's only oppressive if you let the enemy team get way ahead of you in farm, so But again, but the size of the map it's a little easier to To come back and to regain farm because they can't the enemy team can't be Everywhere on that map at once you have opportunities to come back in a theory, which is nice. It's nice Let's move on from material and get into Overprime and we kind of talked about it a little bit before and this wasn't even on my my list of stuff to talk about I want to talk about this controller sport because yeah, I was told and I Didn't know myself, so I told somebody else that their controller sport wasn't that good I figured their controller support would be great just from watching that console demo that they did I would think if they've gotten that far with their controller support on console That it would be great in game and k you're saying that it was pretty smooth except for the sensitivity of turn left and right Yeah, um, I thought I felt like it's very smooth again I said they had a similar issue now I'm thinking about it when it came to using items and stuff. It wasn't very clear I feel like maybe the issue was there wasn't actually controller support in the game in terms of it Wasn't a set and you can just put on a plug in your controller work. I had to literally download a Pre-made config from someone from who put in their discord So all the buttons on screen were showing Wx and stuff like that or like one two three and four so I tried to heal I think I posted a small snippet on my tiktok of Everyone has a bad game and it was literally the first game I died to the jungle and the amount of flames I got from my teammates and like Really a lot a lot of toxicity in that first match, but after that the second game third game It was really really easy. I felt like personally I wonder if it's also a PlayStation controller versus an Xbox controller thing if there's some kind of disconnect between the two That is causing one more frustration than the other I did use a ps5 controller so that could be a possibility Hmm, but also it surprised me to hear that you got flamed for dying in the jungle one time because my first game I died in the jungle like four or five times And I was flaming myself at the most but my whole team never said a word and I was like I don't know how I'm not getting flamed to hell right now Um, well for overprime, uh, they released in their um Work in progress yet another new hero And uh, it's kind of an anime sort of intro for her. She Blinks into a rampage and then pulls out her sword and does like a crazy all all across the screen Slash on rampage I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and voice my concern right off the bat She it didn't seem like she did anything different than kalari just Way flashier like uh-huh kalari can teleport to somebody and then lock them down with several slashes This hero teleports to somebody and then locks them down with several slashes The the visual effects were the same like red slashing that you would get from kalari Like it was just surprisingly similar if they didn't say it was a new hero I would have thought it was a kalari skin right that's exactly what I thought I thought it was a kalari skin and that's The ultimate when she used her ultimate the weird thing is it turned into like a fighting game ultimate where it like Was the cinematic of her doing things and the other person reacting to it And so i'm very curious how that's going to work because I think it was rampage that she was targeting Was clearly reacting to her ultimate hits very specifically and so it was this weird That concerns me because that's a very different ultimate than we have with anybody else From paragon or anything else Oh, okay. What did you think about this new hero? Um, I was gonna say with kalari because I didn't get to play kalari Can she be stunned in any of her lockdown moves because I felt like that was she was really busted during that I was playing shimby and she annoyed the hell out me her encounters Was just The rage the rage Um, yeah, can she be stunned when she does her lockdowns her old or her dash forwards? Oh, she can be stunned. Yeah This new character didn't look like she could be stunned. She looked like as you said it literally takes it into a whole cut scene To do the combo and then she finishes and That's like, that's it. There's no he say she say it's just done great. So she's more broken than kalari. That's what we needed That would be weird Like if it did do that entire anime interaction every time that she altered like because everybody else Was just gotta be sitting there watching like what's going on over there like I know you can't really interact with her I know smite has some characters that are kind of that way And that they turn into like a cinematic-esque Kind of ability. Yeah, that one's got attention like for a tour of the world or some shit Yeah, so I wonder if it's something like that that they're shooting for or what but with that such With such a small clip that's such a hard thing to say For sure. Yeah, I also Where is Adele? We've known about Adele for six months And they keep it up close gameplay of a new hero that isn't Adele I'm confused You know, I completely forgot about Adele because we haven't seen anything but I saw the picture I was like, wow, I'm excited. She's got a whip and she's gonna be like a physical carry or something nothing Just nothing she's gonna be yin and terra combined and that's all it is Well, if you go on their website on her website or you go on their website Like if you click like tank Adele is listed if you click cast her Adele is listed if you click Dps She's listed under all of them. So that doesn't that doesn't give you a clue either I thought I found her workaround. I was like, ooh, I can figure out what Adele's gonna be No, she is everything mango. This is what we're talking about Well, I think one thing we all agree on is that new hero the animation for that ultimate If that was even an ultimate was just cool as fuck like They got the cool factor down for a lot of shit. They absolutely do Oh What's that? I was gonna say I kind of expected it being their company is Korean. I was hoping I'll be honest with you I'm a I'm a pred fan like I'm a pred fan boy like hardcore But one thing I did believe in overprime They're gonna come with the best skins and the best like the most unique anime-esque styled characters And I feel like they've done they've already shown us that with kalori and the dash with steel and all those little things Like they've really went down. I'm gonna say that anime Manoir sort of feeling with their characters and I enjoy it. I can't I can't say I don't I really enjoy it I enjoyed overprime way more than I thought I was Absolutely, and that's Kalari's dash was something that always felt really cool Like just the way that the the v effect worked and dashing that far distance and all those things It always felt like I was like the superhero in something and was like doing this crazy move going forward Even though it was a point click and I got to root them at the same time, but you know, whatever it's fine I'm gonna lead us down another alternate path here Do you guys think that they could Or should put over prime one mobile? Jenny I think I was probably will try And because the game is in that mobile-esque Feeling despite the game lasting 30 minutes, right if they fix death timers fix some of these other issues I think with the way that mobile phones are going in terms of power They could be probably dumb it down to a point where it could be accessible on mobile Because you could play like pub g on mobile Isn't for tonight? I'm just terribly optimized. So for night If for night pub g so you can obviously do it like a third person shooter in What a mobile game and they are back by net marble the They're which is huge and like this is the this is the only game that they do that isn't a mobile game So it could be that they do like the console release and then immediately focus on a mobile release after that I think they're going through steps, right? They have to kind of bring it down a little bit to be on console Right, right just to just make it as optimized and stable as possible And then they just focus on another layer of optimization and stabilization Or the mobile mark mobile market. I could see it That would be a reason for them. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Okay. I keep cutting. No, no my bad. My bad. It's me I have a question. Have you guys Like played smite before? Mm-hmm. Have you played on a nintendo switch? No Absolutely garbage. Oh, really? It's so bad optimization controller support never never And I don't I feel like what they should could do and what they feel like they may do because a loot box system They're going to make like a mini version of the game that allows you to unlock certain things So when you go onto the game you get more and it entices you so then they get more of a market To you know cross between the platforms and the phone you do like an overprime light for mobile and then They have that one lane aram map. Maybe that could be their mobile version of okay overprime. I could see it I mean, they didn't have it during the test, but we've seen that before from them Mm-hmm. That would be crazy. I would put it past them. They're good at their marketing. Oh, yeah Now the the actual stuff that I have on the outline So they they released their dev diary which included sort of a bit of a roadmap of the things that they learned that they need To work on from the beta enlisted are the mini map I didn't really have a problem with animations, which some of them had some problems in game ui server issues optimization mana depletion issue and uh The res timers So out of all of those that I just listed K, which do you Feel is the most important you mini map animation ui server issues optimization mana depletion and res timers I'd say the res timers and then the mana depletion the other ones I didn't have a problem like with maybe it's because of my pc But yeah, there was only those two. I really had an issue with 100% agreed. Yeah. Yep same We after we recorded last week man goose when fpm was airing I sent you a message of like we didn't even talk about the mana problem that happened during over prime Like I completely forgot about it somehow Uh, and that's yeah, that was one of my biggest issues With the game was mana and I said it several times during the actual test I don't think having a more restricted mana is a problem. I think they've just gone too far Right and that if if I could get Two two and a half rotations of my abilities and be out of mana fine Right then then that comes down to me Learning to play around that when I go through half three fourths to one rotation of my Of my abilities and I'm already out of mana that feels bad Yeah When I go in as Kalari press er and I have no mana afterwards that's terrible because I can't do anything past that My my big thing with it is It takes away from their goal with over prime Which is to make a faster more exciting game and nothing says slower and less exciting than having to back for mana every fucking Five minutes like the game's slow down because you don't have enough mana after one fight to like you lose You'll lose all your mana in one fight like guarantee any hero will lose all their mana in one fight And then after that elica insane. Yes. Yes. Oh my god that that stupid drone Like every time I saw her go down. I'm like that drone is priority We need to take that thing down. Yeah, her ultimate. Oh my god. I got captain of the face for four 1450 damage Yeah, because if you if everybody's out of mana her ultimate It's just the strongest ability on the map every time all the time The way you guys don't like the fact is they've reverted a Oh back to what it was in paragon like because folks one is just damage isn't it isn't based on mana It's based on mana, but like just like a tiny little bit I need to like get like 10 more damage out of it or something I think making her the kind of character that the lower mana you are the more dangerous she is is fine I think but the constant problem of everyone being out of mana Means that if obelica has enough to cast her ultimate she just wins Right like it's if they make the mana more balanced. I think it'll be fine Where you're not just out of mana in one rotation of abilities Because all she has to do is survive one rotation press r and you take 1500 damage, right? That's all it takes and that's insane And you as junglers also you was probably always out of mana coming from the jungle That's it's one of those in the jungle I had to be like don't use my abilities. Don't use my abilities. Don't use my abilities Like trying to clear the jungle as fast as possible. I was ridiculous So wait, can I ask you to a question go for it because I I didn't key I didn't really like pay a lot of attention to games because I didn't have much time to play um With the game do they reward you for building mana like a lot of other mobs do so say like um if I decided to Pick a card that I'd stack and build um stacks on it to get more mana Is there another card to compensate that whereas the more mana I have the more damage ideal like for example Fault has those smite has those paragon you serve those Did they have anything like that? They had similar items. I know the problem was that all of their mana items were for Magical characters across the board and so if you Were magical based you could build mana items and be pretty set because the pass was on them Were really good the mana that gave you was really good Bellica could build four items and then have three or four rotations of our abilities no problem The problem then became for all physical damage characters You can't pick those items because there's there there's no benefit and damage for you Yeah, and so physical damage characters were always out of mana and always having mana problems Whereas sometimes the magical characters had a little more favor in that regard That there was a mana lens Type card no stacks, but it did convert your mana into power Or was it called paragon mana catalyst or some shit? I'll I'll forget there was a card like that Yeah, but like jelly said all the mana cards. There was nothing physical I thought their item shop is pretty basic like I don't think it needs to be Out of this world crazy at this point in time with the game, but There were a couple like itemization options that were just missing from the game There was a lot of bruiser items a lot of attack speed Um for the physical damage side magical had a little more of a spread But even then because of the mana problems it basically honed down to the mana items Basically is all people built. Yeah, so they could use a little bit more diversification, but I don't think they need a ton more Uh, you don't have anything else to say about our problem for we move along No Yeah, I think we've said it all right, uh I'm gonna let's go ahead and get in the predecessor because this is the first news We've had out of predecessor and forever and this news will hopefully lead to even more news. They announced that nabori Uh content creator is uh channel is gamer fitness group. I think it's called Pretty really popular back in um paragon days still pretty popular, but he is going to be their community manager and um Hopefully that means we'll be getting a lot more updates out of Out of predecessor Yeah, what's got to say go ahead you and I kind of looked into it when the announcement was made and it looks like nabori's taken over for tyga stripe because tyga Wasn't no was no longer listed as their community manager. He's now just listed as a content creator on their discord Yeah, he went back to school But did he okay, okay It's good to know I had no idea so it's not like tyga got fired or anything tyga You heard it here first Um, that's not the journalism for you right there My one critique is that's pretty aggressive picture to announce your community manager Like that shit cracked me the fuck up like I immediately took that picture and put it into The village people and it just fit perfect Like it didn't like that's probably the best photoshop job I've ever done Then I asked I asked mokie if he's got if he's got a job for the sailor and the construction worker as well I I can't you can't post a picture like that and expect me not to make fun of it It's gonna it's gonna happen. It's what I do Yeah, no, I'm gonna start a group that wants the sailor and construction worker to get jobs now because That's gotta happen. I want fringe to dress up as the construction worker Yes, and I want to dress up as the sailor Um, but yeah, they've already done like a tick tock nobody did a tick tock Uh, it didn't really leak anything, but it said that they're going to have leaks Um leak to the leaks man goose. Yeah big shout out to k for clue me in on that because I did not see that at all um But yeah, uh, what what kind of leaks would you like to see from them k? What kind of news would you like to see? Stress test like I just want to know I just want to get in there. I got one game I know you guys for the same. I got one game on the stress test and For where it was from from what it became from where it was was just insane like the jump the gameplay How smooth it was and then it shut down Listen, let's be honest. There was a lot of people saying oh, it's a stress test. No, no Extend it maybe a little bit, please You heard it here from a predecessor fan boy, right? He even said it this Mangers and I say it all the time, but now one of the pred people is saying it that's I consider myself a pred person. I've been a huge predecessor fan since the very beginning Angus, you're not a pred fan boy. I'm an ethereal fan boy. Yeah, but I'm also a pred fan boy and a fault pan fan boy and now an overprime fan boy Will admit I gave overprime more shit than they probably deserved at the beginning, but They did deserve some shit, but yeah, they they've improved so fucking much But anyway, but predecessor. Yeah, I've always been on predecessor side. I just I don't I don't know I think it's kind of I think it's a bit of an odd choice for a community manager too because he is very vocal about the other games, which is That's fine for a content creator. Hopefully He'll reign that in since he's going to be kind of the face of omeda studios now He's going to have to be a little more reserved in his opinions about the other games because otherwise it'll just look unprofessional and um I don't know We just didn't we haven't gotten a lot of paragon content out of nobori and all of a sudden he's a community manager It's kind of weird kind of weird to me But Oh, sorry, go on. I just thank god. We got something out of predecessor And hope and hopefully this means more so go ahead. Okay So what I find weird is I didn't know until today that a lot of the companies follow each other on instagram From what I saw if i'm correct I thought I saw a strange amount are followed by overprime And then I think um also pred follows one of them But then a lot of the people who are like partners with all these companies will get at the other games And I just don't get it because aren't they all going for the same thing That's I mean everything that I every interaction I've had with other Devs from the other games has been nice, right? It's net we've never Never publicly have any of them come out and been like no screw you guys right and we're screw you guys back Right, that's never happened. Uh, I mean, I know ethereal and pred have been always super cordial with each other As I said, I think it was last week the old guys on the block of the four of them Right, but everyone's been super kind. It makes sense that everybody follows each other Plus they're also trying to watch for what the others are doing Like when they announce a stress test and maybe coincidentally have a stress test at the same time I don't know crazy Couldn't possibly happen at all let alone twice But it's really cool to see Some karate camaraderie in that regard of them following each other and kind of trying to Theoretically boost each other up at the same time I think it's the main thing people need to always remember is No matter what your feelings on the finished product the people working on it are Are also paragon fans that are doing their best to realize like to to create something for the paragon fans Maybe it's not the thing that you want for paragon, but it might be something that somebody else wants for paragon and uh We're all just people and it's all uh They're all doing their absolute best if their best doesn't cut it then Their game will fall to the wayside and it doesn't matter what you say about it. You don't have to talk mad shit about About them to make them go under because they'll go under on their own if their game isn't up to snuff Absolutely Can I ask you guys a question? What would you like to see from predecessor like What is the main thing maybe a hero a map like something road map? I want to see a road map. That's what I want to see I want to see their plans Not not like to the detail but general plans for what they want to do this year Like this is our goals for this year. I want to see their goals. They're stretch goals I mean, I would love of course to see new content from them across the board But I think the thing that is always in the back of my mind for pred is their monetization I really want to see what their monetization is because that can make or break a game by itself If it's really aggressive if it's really friendly what it's going to be what what they're doing battle passes Are they doing loot boxes? Are they doing all of these other things? Right? We don't really have an idea of anything from pred in that regard Yeah, that'd be good. So is a so is a fair rule doing have they announced any of that stuff? Or monetization. Yeah, it's pure skins. No loot boxes We've talked about battle passes in the past That we plan to implement battle passes, but they won't be available right off the start but it's it's For lack of a better way to put it barely generic monetization that you see from the other free to play MOBA titles out in this space So you wouldn't consider having boxes But you can buy the skin outright for a little bit of extra of whatever your currency will be And then also having a battle sauce alongside that and then events So you could like monopolize what you have But then you're giving people more of an option people who you know, I mean just live on these games Which you know, I mean there's a lot of people that do that To either invest their money in Oh, sorry could no go ahead Oh, yeah, I was gonna say to either put money in or put time in so it's like, you know You can earn it if you play long enough, but do you know, I mean Yeah, so it's we've talked about ideas of like being able to earn skins just by playing the game But I can't give anything official at the moment, right? It's still in the early process for that just the main thing that we have announced is that just direct There's a store for the skins purchase what you want that kind of thing Mangus, what do you think of that? Sorry if you don't mind me asking I'm not a big fan of battle passes. I think if they're implemented well, they can be great And just not something I've ever really Liked all that much. Um, I definitely prefer being able to just outright buy skins Then rely on loot boxes to unlock skins Um, I think loot boxes are fine as long as it's just all cosmetic and um I don't know Everybody needs to be able to sustain themselves in order to carry the games forward and How they do that can be can we've seen that with fault? It can really affect player opinions of the game Um, and the other thing too that I think people need to kind of realize Predecent everybody always says paragon. I'm sorry. Paragon was free For about six months. It was not You had to get really lucky and get a a key Or you paid for it I paid for it Yeah, Paragon wasn't always free. I don't people Need to get that through their heads. It wasn't always free. So like They had loot boxes in the game from the start. Yeah. Yeah, they did. I hate that loot box system. Oh Yeah, that's paragon was like the example of how not to do loot boxes. Holy shit Paragon did it before battlefront. So, you know, paragon did it before it was cool, right? We're gonna Battlefront learned from paragon. Oh But I guess they learned from that's what they learned for fortnite because you know, they're they'd battle pass system came out really well and Well, uh speaking of battle passes and bad impressions from the from the start. Let's talk about talking about fault. Uh Because the fault they started out off of the battle pass and early access And that really that that really put a damper on the community's opinion of Fault a lot of people were calling it a cash grab Season pass season pass whatever They're not the same How was it not what okay, what's the difference between a season pass and a battle pass Season pass you pay once you get all of the content in the season pass battle pass You have to play the game continuously to earn the content over a course of levels. Okay Don't roll your eyes at me man goose. I started off this episode. Nice. You does not mean I will end it that way Well, anyway, so So, I mean that's what gave a lot of people a bad impression of fault But again like they need to the reason faults come as far as it has is because they Got that money from early access purchases because they're they don't have outside funding. They don't they answer only to themselves they can that's uh That's that's the one shining star for fault is they don't Need to draw in the same numbers as these other games to outlast the other games because they don't have to make Nearly as much money, but um, anyway, let's uh, let's get to the actual fault updates the um, they're uh accepting partnership acts application. So if you want to be a Fault partner you can apply for it right now. They're I guess that means they're trying to get the word out about fault a little more and market it a little bit better Ck, I know you do uh some fault content. I was watching your jungle steel montage the other day Are you sure that was me? Was it you? Oh, no, I don't think so Was it okay? No, mine's pop. Okay. Um, my actual my youtube which I've been uploading games to I don't I'm not that good. It's still that's that's all you I'll send you a video if you want. No, yeah Um, but what I was gonna say about fault and back to the battle pass thing. I know when this is not the subject topic, but They I wouldn't say it's false advertisement, but it felt like false advertisement. They gave up this whole Dream they sold us a dream like that's what I felt like I bought the 50 pound like the most expensive edition I really like believed in them. They sold all this roadmap stuff and then when we got all the skins I was like, this is what you're giving us for what I was like really And all the three characters it didn't like they didn't stick to the line So I was like we didn't get and I was thinking so do we get conversation for like believing it? I understand that you know, it's not easy working on a game But you didn't I didn't feel like they updated us Alongside all these problems that were happening It's like a little bit of respect for us like, you know, I mean pushing to help you if you would just communication and then I don't like how expensive their skins are which are from paragon Like that does one thing like how long it takes to earn money earn in-game currency to get a skin I just don't think it's fair for something that they didn't create It's like the the way I see it is it's just them trying to keep you playing the game So you can grind out to get that skin But taking 50-something games to earn enough currency is so long. It's ridiculous I think I mean when the game came out, I grinded the hell out of that game right playing it every day hours and hours a day Right, and I don't think I got my first paragon skin for with the in-game currency for like 50 hours maybe like something because I was going for the highest, right? I'm not going for some of the cheap skins. I'm going for something big Right, and that's a long time. That's a long time to have to play a game In order to get something for free no less. Yeah I I mean, I think they adjusted that from the beginning Like it's adjusted now, but yeah, especially especially when it first released grinding up enough currency to get anything was just a huge pain in the ass Mm-hmm. Oh, and I still have no skin marks Do you have no skin marks? You have to have any skin marks. What are you going to get with two skin marks? I think you tell me I think that Concept is really good for fault the whole idea of like hero marks skin marks ward marks the whole line yards cool idea Right make them one mark and then vary the prices according to each different thing because Getting and I again, I've got no skin marks But I've got an insane amount of hero marks that I can't use Right because I bought the season pass. So I got all those heroes for free So I have some like 100 skin or 100 hero marks that I can't use Yeah, and I've gotten a handful of ward marks Right, like it just make it one and make that price variable to give two different ways you can earn skins for free or earn something for free Oh, like it's a great idea when the weekly challenge works Mm-hmm I feel like I'm shitting on fault. I love fault guys. I honestly love fault It's just there's little things that I feel like, you know, they can address before making big changes Like small patches like they mean a lot to us. I feel like Well part of the problem of fault is that we have had access to it for so long that we know every little bad thing about it Uh-huh. Absolutely. I think whenever we could play predecessor and overprime for as long as we've been able to play fault Um, we'll be able to identify a lot of that stuff ethereal too. I don't know why I left ethereal out of that equation But yeah, leave ethereal out of fun. Oh, no, no, I've already found a lot of stuff in ethereal. All right but uh Yeah, I think the longer we play those other ones the more we'll be able to Identify some worries some troubles with those just like we do with poor old fault But yeah fault does that as have its problems speaking of fault's problems Feng Mao's been out for about a week now Holy shit He's uh A little nutty is a little nutty if you guys got a chance to play with him or have you played against him at all Both I've dominated on him. I've been dominated against him like it's just He and it seems like if he's in the game one of the feng maos will carry the game for whichever team it is Doesn't matter, but that's how it is feng mao will carry the game. Yeah I didn't expect him to be have such a large effect on the game But they have him scaling like a like a like a carry like an eight like a 80 carry and it is uh Yeah, he does a significant amount of damage the real problem with him though is that goddamn shield Giving him like a 600 health shield is nuts. Just when you think he's dead He walks away and it's like Hell the hell Hey, what are your thoughts? Do you know what No, I use him. I went 24 to 2 in my last game, which I recorded Holy, um 25 or 26 to 7 like it's consistent with him. It's unbelievably consistent and then If you put lifesteal and crit on him with the card that increases your healing by 30% even when it comes to lifesteal There's you can't fight him, but I will say I came up against the chimera and he Kept me on edge like he dominated me like every I would be hitting him He'd be nearly dead and his health would just chunk back and I'm like and I had anti heal as well So there are ways to beat him only chimera can beat him, but Without no decker decker on your team, but other than that they need to know if I'm unbelievably. Oh, yeah I don't want them to but Scaling's I mean I think I think it was windu saying that his scaling on his shield is a hundred percent of his physical power It gets huge Yeah, no, it's massive and that's insane to give a shield that much scaling In addition to how much damage he can do with his other abilities as well It's nuts plus his dash resets when he gets a kill and his ultimate resets when he kills with it That lost too long way too long. Oh, that's so long. It's ridiculous You can travel lane to lane get another kill with the ultimate travel to the third lane and get another one It's insane Oh my god. Yeah that that I I was playing earlier and There was a countess and a thing now on the other team And I was playing Richter support because it was requested by my by my adc And it was just it was like you got to pick one man I can't keep them both off of you like one of them is going to get to you Like even when I would lock lock them both down like I'd catch them both in my ultimate They would both blink to him and I would have to pick which one I'm going to pull off of him And like it didn't matter which one I pulled off of him. The other was going to kill him like there was no chance No chance and it's it's the crazy thing about Feng Mao ult being an execute and resetting when it kills somebody is Typically in other games the real the ultimates that reset that also execute our single target The issue with feng Mao ult and I think predecessors said that their feng Mao ult is also going to reset on kills Yes, they have said that the problem is it's aoe So all I have to do is line it up just right where I get my execute and damage everybody else And then I get to recast it again potentially getting another execute and damaging everybody else I can stack the aoe damage on all of the enemy team members in a good team fight Which means I'm unbeatable. There's no winning against that if it's done, right? Yeah So wait, here's a question. Um, I don't know if it was Um, just someone just talking out or else. Um, but in the feedback um, the full feedback chat One of I don't know if it was one of the admins or some someone replied and said that his ult should do 50 percent health damage or 50 percent damage I don't know what the scaling was but it doesn't right now And I don't know if that was actually just someone playing the game or what but I was confused So I just wanted to know if you guys know anything about it So I haven't heard that but I felt it There when when he isn't executing his ultimate does no damage Yeah, right if you if you misjudge that timer that execute health range You'll do next to no damage and that's that it doesn't matter I've done it a dozen times where I'm just like, okay, they're they're getting close Let me hit them with something and then press r to get that execute immediately And then I misjudge it and they don't go down at all and then they just turn and kill me because now my ultimate's down What am I gonna do? Yeah, so it wouldn't surprise me to hear that but it's also terrifying to hear that it's Just that it may not be doing as much damage as it should be doing No, no, that's it as tooltip if it's if they're not below Execution range it does 50 percent Oh, okay. That's what it was. I was very confused. Thank you. There was one more thing, but I forgot I'll come back to it Oh thing mouse Dash is broken. It doesn't work. It gets caught up in gadgets Slow like anything that has Like a wall. I don't know how it works with in game development But anything that has something that could stop it it stops So you can go teleport and you just teleport on your spot. It's really confusing The hitbox on it is super weird like it has to be cast in the most like open area in order for you to know that You're gonna go where you're trying to go It's a very strange ability. Yeah, it acts like a blink but behaves like a dash and so it's this weird Weird thing But it hits like it Yeah, yeah The whole thing the whole kit is nutty. I still want to switch the cue and the right click back, please Ha ha Times that I shielded when I was trying to dash and dash when I was trying to shield I haven't played him. Uh pvp yet. I just played I've just played him pve so Please give him a go, please Yeah, my my only experiences with him is trying to defend against them and that's been a horrid experience We'll get another mangoes video of him of you going 25 and two on Well, do you know what? I feel like he is the most balanced character for ranged on solo I feel like right now He is in the perfect spot for solo lane because every time I've come up against a morguech like really good morguech It's who are like max level mastery or like a murdoch in solo lane He's the only character I can seem to play that allows me to Keep up with them and actually, you know, I mean bully them I can go to the jungle farm come back and still be able to like keep competition I I could see that. Yeah, I'm pretty successful with gravestone against like a mage I not against the carry though like I can go I had a game the other day where I went up against a master morguech and actually Dominated that lane with gravestone and gravestone actually does really well against fig mal. You wouldn't think so But he he does really well against the fig mal off lane So that's kind of a bit of a rock paper scissors there Because uh, yeah, I think fig mal is definitely the best option if you're up against like a murdoch or a fucking Gram or some bullshit. Oh, I hate that so much All right, uh, you guys got anything else to say about fault before we move on nope No All right, let's get to the poll now the poll A lot of people like the way it's set up people misvoted quite a bit But uh pred got 41 over prime 20 fault 15 and ethereal 24 So I don't think people misvoted at all. I was gonna say Jelly's gonna be like no, this is correct. This is right No, so I will work on the poll and see if we can get the names put on there because uh, I think a lot of people just can't identify these games by their logo Especially over prime and fault because they look not over prime fault predecessor and fault because they look almost exactly alike Mm-hmm. No, I don't think of an ethereal and over prime look a little bit alike. They're both sort of circular I guess a little bit. Yeah But I mean, this is the first time I realized these are semi skewed, right? But this is the first time we've seen predecessor be below 50 in our polls. Yeah Which I kind of expected after my nine percent. I mean that's To me that is While there is some margin of error there That's significant enough that they actually could be below 50 percent in the in the actual numbers as well And that's like an almost 20 drop from what we've seen in the last poll. Yeah I I figured we would see a drop after the over prime Uh close beta test I'm with uk. I still like predecessor Or I don't maybe I'm not with you but I like predecessor better than probably the rest of them But I think I mean over prime really didn't press me but I think I still prefer Would prefer to be playing predecessor rather than over prime I don't know what do you guys think Are you so okay? Um I prefer predecessor just in it felt like a better paragon I would be honest it felt better than power what paragon was and I enjoyed that speed the pace It wasn't too much. I feel like over prime was amazing. Like I Talked a lot about over prime for so long so long But they just didn't have that feel what felt like a different game and not as bad That's really nice because you know, you could probably have over prime and prepped like living alongside each other It's just it wasn't What that nostalgic feeling I was looking for which pred came with and slapped me in the face of here's something new as well so I enjoyed it, but I appreciate what folks do in and that's one thing that doesn't know me about predecessor They're not giving me nothing and it's kind of making me lose a bit of faith Yeah Yep, I love to hear for lack of a better way to put it I love to hear that you're saying that because man goose and I have been assuming that about the predecessor community for a long time I'm sorry. Someone from the predecessor community be like. Yeah, that is how I feel great. I feel vindicated I'm not just like talking out my ass here I for the paragon successors I would probably agree that as much as I loved Playing over prime and as much as I do enjoy playing fault I think predecessor is the one that I'm most excited for of the three because I think k you put it perfectly kind of hits you with that nostalgic stick But also gives you something new to chew on that. You're like, oh, okay Like this feels like I remember but also feels different enough to feel good. Yeah Oh no, um, I'll try and fix the poll for next week, but I'll It's open up right now again if you're watching Oh, there was one thing I was going to talk to you, um, ask you about um, because you're with ethereal and I feel like It's might does it so well and it's the collaboration between Their company and either like animes tv shows So they don't a teenage mutant in your total skin and they have active skins So your character's ability. So for example, I said it in the fault group chat. No, I replied. I wasn't surprised. Um I said for the gideon For the astrosuit because it's such a nice skin. I think it's such an amazing skin Instead of throwing meteors out He could throw like a broken rocket ship and then when he does his alt It's like a constellation thing like these things I feel like are gonna bring people in more than anything else Is making the game look pretty and cool with skins I feel like that's gonna really block their game and feel like none of them other than overprime a little bit What is doing that because why didn't the obviously very extreme I feel like I'm pushing boundaries here But the um Terak is that what they call him in overprime? Oh the rampage. Yeah rampage. Um His ape skin. He could have thrown like a log and that Like the skin had me in love with it But like just these little details I feel like they could do to just shoot through the roof Yeah, and so While we don't have any that have been shown yet Ethereal definitely has skins that are altering Like visual effects and all of that kind of stuff in the in the works There will be a whole Classification of skin tears So we've got a handful of different skin tears once you reach a certain threshold and above All tears all skins of that tear and above will have different visual effects attached to them So there's going to be those various things that you'll see Some minor changes on some massive changes some complete different visual effects Right, that's all something that we're looking at as for partnerships like smite does I would be lying if I said I didn't want to do that, of course, right? But I think it's just too early to say for us because we're not at the point where we can approach these companies and be like Hey, by the way transformers we want to do with transformers skin. Hey Kool-Aid We want to make a skin with your mascot on our character busting through walls saying. Oh, yeah, right like Trust me if I can get that collaboration. I'm gonna do it. I want to call it the Kool-Aid skin so bad That's a really good point like um with uh the twin blast um The summer fun twin blast Like in paragon he shot water out of the pistols out of his little water guns and that was fucking amazing like why isn't that in fault right now like Why can't they just do that one little particle effect and I do I mess with visual effects, right on the side That is not that hard Uh like Honestly, you can take the particle effect change its color and that will go a long way for them Even if they're not going to make it a whole new visual effect And that is relatively easy Knowing what the paragon v effects look like Uh, it's it's not terribly difficult. Um, I would love to see that happen because that's my favorite twin blast skin So I would love to see that as well uh Or and actually now that you mentioned it man goose Dante's bloodshot skin He's got the cyber ronin dante, which was his his base skin his tier one skin And then the cyber ronin skin which are the bloodshot skin, which is the patreon reward That skin has different visual effects than base dante. Oh really? Yes They're very subtle. They're just they change his particles from blue to red But to match the skin theme but that is like an example of one of the more base versions of visual effect changes And I feel like they're just entices people to you know want to pay Like you know what I'm saying? It's like oh, it's only a little thing, but I like it. It's a life change Yeah, because they in sparrow in fault if you look at her. I don't know what it's called the armor the raven costume Is In paragon the arrows were actually blue if i'm correct and then in fault There's no effect when she shoots and then her star wars jedi look in costume with a cloak She would rain red arrows if i'm correct in paragon. I may be wrong But i'm sure one of her skins did and then this is just the same. There's no small changes And the little things go a long way in that regard, right? Yeah That's huge and we talked about little things. I mean hit stopping mangoes You've brought it up in two videos recently It's stopping and over prime is a little thing that goes a long way to show impact of basic attacks, right? And that's that's something that can push people over the edge between a Do I want to play this game? Do I not want to play this game? Do I want to buy this game? Do I not want to buy this skin? They can look at that and see Like you said a rocket ship coming out of the portal. That's huge I honestly that would entice me to buy this skin more than the current version, right? And like that's a really cool idea Yeah, I think skins play A huge part just skins and just character design in general play a huge part in attracting people to these games So I think the character design is a really kind of what brought a lot of us into Paragon like it just they they had cool characters like it's a mixture of Like you got grucks just swinging like crude clubs But then you got like murdoch with like a space rifle or some shit Like that stuff is a huge draw Kate Including all of it all the games Not not just overprime, but like you got the the predecessor jailer skin. You got the skins from Fault that are fault specific skins. What is your favorite skin that you've seen out of these Paragon successors? You know overprime came with so many like they have to the rampage skin the I really enjoyed the South skin the one was like a big yes. Wow And then the steel skin the jail up They just they they hit so many boxes They literally hit so many what you can't go wrong with them Just the concept of being able to hit someone with his hands and I didn't realize it until your video mangoes Thank you for showing that because that explains so much why I enjoyed it and hitting people with steel It impactful. Mm-hmm. This is like chunk chunk chunk. Yeah Yeah, I felt good. Yeah. Well, I mean jelly's the one to point that out to me that they had hit stop We saw that in the um the console console demo thing now had hit stop whenever he was attacking jungle camps Which yeah Person in my comments ask about console when I've covered it. I don't know how many goddamn times when console when Yeah, trust me mangers. I feel you Here's the console question. Do you think they're gonna go Optimized for one console or do you think they're gonna be for the ps5 and not for the ps4 sort of thing like few current gen or old gen I think they pretty much have to only do ps5 right now I don't think I think I saw I'm double checking right now But on their faq when talking about console I'm pretty sure their faq'd mentioned ps4 as well really I'm trying to double check so I'm not I didn't think sony was allowing people to develop for ps4 right now Oh, no, no, I think definitely only if you're developing for ps5 as well You can't the production's caught up for ps4. Oh really really, okay Oh, I learned something new today It's weird I can't find it. So don't believe me until I can find it and actually reference myself I mean It would be a lot more valuable to them. I think to develop for both ps4 and ps5 I don't know about xbox because xbox doesn't really have that built-in paragon following That would be cool to see And it could be an untapped market for the space actually I mean really I think smites the only moba that's on xbox Right, so they bringing something that's not being run in unreal engine three Could be huge for the xbox space, especially the new generation of xbox I forgot smite has an upgraded there the engine they use in forever, huh? Or ever Even if they haven't had long enough competition to feel threatened to do it. Yeah So my it's a 3d mobile a 3d a 2d mobile with free 3d assets. Yeah It's so it's yeah, we're gonna I'm not gonna say anything I This is a safe space you could talk on as much shit about smite as you want. Uh, yeah, I don't know Well, I mean the discussion topic this week was fairness of comparisons I don't even know if we're really gonna get into that we're talking We're just kind of wandering around talking about stuff right now. We're just kind of what the show is supposed to be about um When I say like a fairness of the comparisons what I'm talking about is um, I've talked about this with quite a few people like People don't I don't think care as much about What kind of difficulties the company has had or how long they've been Developing the game people just look at that final product, right? And that's what they base their opinion off of Do you think that's fair or do you think the people should? Actually taken to consideration that like fault isn't as well funded as as predecessor and and over prime or that You know over prime doesn't hasn't had as much time and development as predecessor or whatever Do you think do you guys think that should be that people should take that into consideration or? Or no, okay, I'll let you take this one It's a hard one because you could say that Strange matter shot themselves in the foot because then they say they didn't want to have that So they could have free like reins on their products and like on what their game is Is that like right or no? I think so. Yeah. Yeah, I think so you can't really like Yeah, they do get a lot of shit I feel like they're doing the best right now because they're again, they're giving us a product to play That's where the only issue would lie is there are a lot of people Who I saw streaming over prime was shitting on fault and then now they're going back and streaming Um, um, yeah when over prime finished they're going back and playing full and streaming. I'm a bit like but didn't you just Just completely get onto this game whereas Um predecessor has had a lot of funding and obviously they've been working it for a lot longer but Now over prime is backed That time doesn't that time frame doesn't really matter. Does it do you think so? Because they have such a big team compared to all the but the up to the other companies So it's a bit like I just feel Wherever you decide to put your hand is The food that the abundance of food is you're going to get whereas everyone I feel like chosen their path So it's up to them. Yeah Yeah, I agree It's one of those hard things of right especially For like ethereal compared to these private peregon successors Right, it's if you look at them The peregon successors had 2.2 million or a whole bunch of millions of dollars of free assets ethereal does not Right, and so there's the aspect where I want to be like you can't apples to apples compare those things because they're not the same But at the same time as a consumer I can be understanding of that concept But it doesn't mean I need to approve of it And mangoes you made a video thing over a year ago now talking about that kind of idea of of indie company Cutting an indie company some slack, but not just letting them get away with murder at the same time And I think that's a hard distinction for people to make a lot of the time and I think It's perfectly understandable for people to just judge on final product or on what they've seen And not the road to get there Right like it's I and I guess as an example to this ethereal has been in development for four plus years Right and has had several times where they've announced a pre-alpha dates And and missed it if we were getting judged for the road up up till this point All of that would be all of what we're doing now would be heavily mired by that in this on the flip side of the token Right would be heavily mired by well, they've done nothing so Push them aside and to an extent it is but it's not across the board where and so it's a double-edged sword at the same time of considering the past in the presence and what it took to get to this point at the same time And can you even can you eat I mean overprime was an it was an indie company for so was an indie studio for so long our soleive We really can't consider them an indie studio anymore. Can we not really Not with the for lack of a better way to put a legitimate backing that they've received. Yeah I guess how do you define a triple-a game as opposed to an indie game? I would find them at the backing. Yeah I think I think it all comes down to financial backing And I guess if you were going to subset that even financial backing into who the financial backers are Yeah, yeah Right and so that's there's it's almost like we've got three tiers of of backing at the moment in terms of like indie company versus non Right, we've got the kind of fault ethereal level where there's no official investors or or official backing of any kind other than community driven funding You've got predecessor who's kind of in a weird middle ground where they've received investment from from angel investors, but not a triple-a studio necessarily And then you've got overprime who's got a big gaming corporations background and money to back them up at the same time Yeah, I guess we'll get to find out over the next couple years, which is Which is going to be beneficial I mean You would think right off the right with the bat that whoever has the most backing would be the best But we saw from paragon that that's not always true like Netmarble especially you could find another game that they want to invest in more than Overprime and then move on to and move those those overprime those solely vassets over to over to that game Um, I don't I mean, oh man. I don't think it's going to start on like a brand new like indie platformer like a battle royale or something, but And then uh fault like they could just keep on keeping on that's the fault is like the little Caesars of Of all of these Like they're five dollars hot and ready man goose. Yeah, we're talking about They could just keep on flying under the radar and outlast the other ones and then really kind of take off Absolutely, and that's we talked about that in the past of right of the the different levels of I guess standards that each one has to meet based on their financial backing And so that's a huge thing in and of itself plus with the indie development boom that we've been seeing over the last couple years in video games it indie devs tend to gather More diehard communities, right because they are more responsive. They're more understanding the more communicative across the board and I think we've seen that transition away from that kind of feeling in predecessor to an extent And even to an extent in overprime Even though they've been giving us consistent information. It's different than it was before they were acquired, right? But wait, here's a question. When was the last time you played a great triple a title? That is a good question Yes I almost play exclusively indie games anymore. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I rarely ever play anything AAA I mean, I'll look at my steam list right now. I honestly can't think I don't think I have a triple a game installed Yeah, that's a great question. Do you have an answer? Okay Um At the end of the month Elden Ring comes out and that's probably going to be the only game I've spent so much money over the last few years and I feel like it's been wasted on triple a titles because They do the thing where they lead you down the road and it's the dead end Yeah, I have no triple a game studio titles installed on my steam right now I didn't even think about that. That's insane to think about actually Conan exiles I guess for me. Is that triple a I think it is. I think it is now. It wasn't when it started so Does it count as a triple a game or is a triple a company? But then it's over a triple a game or is it over prime a triple a company? We have so many gray areas to play around with Man, that's a great question though. What I want to see in the comments You know, let me know a great question came like was the last time you really enjoyed playing A triple a game because Conan exiles is just like I passed the time in that game. I wouldn't say Unnecessarily truly and I certainly don't enjoy it as much as I enjoyed paragon, but No, but that's an interesting thought. Yeah, holy shit It blew my mind Oh one more thing So I feel like right now is one of the best options for any of the companies to approach sony if they're willing to Because sony obviously they're on a buy and fee and you know, they just bought they just bought bungee Just just you know, I feel like that's a very great show For the console players I mean, I think It'd be a great opportunity. I don't know if any of them are in the place for it Is the thing Is I don't think I think the one that's most in the place for it is fault And I don't know that that is beneficial For sony at this point Yeah, I can see why you'd say that I don't think that really matches what strange batter is trying to do too I think strange batter wants to be that crowd funded Sort of indie version of the of a paragon successor like I don't How would you pass up on sony though, man? That's so much funding Wait was paragon a triple a game or was it just an indie game with triple a Looks and graphics because I swear that was like the whole basis of paragon It's an indie game, but it looked like a triple a game. I remember watching one of the trailers It would depend on if you consider unreal tournament a triple a game Yeah, no, right at the time that paragon came out epics only other really big asset in terms of gaming was unreal tournament So if you consider unreal tournament A triple a game. Yes, it was developed by triple a game studio But if not, I could see that the beginning of paragon being argued both ways Yeah, I mean like that was just kind of a passion project for steve superville like And it wasn't even really intended to be a major game at first It was like more just showing off some of their techniques and assets and trying to sell the unreal engine More than actually sell a video game That's so yeah paragon assets in their marketing all over the place now. Yeah And I mean epic is a triple a studio now fortnight hands down. So oh, yeah easily But yeah, that's a good question. Could you really consider paragon to be a triple a game? Okay, you're built. You're blowing my mind tonight with all these questions, man I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna take it. Thank you kind of questions We asked going into the future with ftm. Do you think paragon was a triple a game? Yes, you're no judge them accordingly Yeah Because making a game requires a lot of experience And if you if you look at it that way, then you couldn't really consider Overprime to be a triple a game just an indie game with triple a assets because This is their first time not netmarbles first time around but soli's first time actually creating a game So at that point, is it more about triple a devs than it is about the studio? Oh You're a brand new studio But you've got all triple a devs from a previous studio. Does that make you an indie company? Hmm I don't know what to say a lot. I hear you hear these game companies get acquired and then mass leaving happens and they go start their own studios But they start indie studios. They they normally spets normally specified when they do it But indy, what's the definition? That's that that's what we're describing, right? Is the definition of indy are they indy because it's a new studio or are they indy because they're new devs? Or is it indy because of the monetary threshold that The assets that they have available available to them Or is it indy because of the type of music that they play in the background of their game, right? How many of them have handlebar mustaches Yeah, I don't know that's a really good question and then with the with the paragon assets How would they they were worth like what a couple like billion a couple billion dollars or millions dollars? I'll forget what it was something ridiculous about 20 mil was fink. I think yeah, I think you're right I think it was 20 20 million dollars was what the paragon assets were worth So and and then ask that aspect you would you couldn't really consider any of these companies to be Indy because they're working with 20 million dollar assets, you know But no burial. It's But yeah, not a very old burial like a lot of experiments more than it's anything answerable at this point Yeah, no, it's a fun thing to think about. It's a good discussion That's uh, yeah, man. That's crazy I've always thought of paragon as a triple a moba But when you really dig into it and think about it They kind of work the time it died. I would say it was But by its inception, I wouldn't and so that's a weird. Where did it cross that threshold is also the problem. Yeah Oh, maybe when the new map when they changed they changed to the second map Maybe that's where it like changed and they gave our game a whole overhaul like and they changed the card When the game became triple a is when it got worse got it. Okay. Yeah It proves the point what was the last triple a game you played Haha, yeah, that's right I was gonna ask you a lot about that because I didn't play the last six months of paragon because I thought absolute dog shit So I'm with you there, man. Like okay, cool I came back like at the very end when it was about to shut down But I'd quit like the november before Just It's like around when terra came out because I didn't hardly ever Oh, she would play terra Drongo as well. They did not know what it was doing that character and predecessor made him really good Like It's crazy I didn't get a chance to play with him yet and predecessor. I'm excited for that. I'm excited for that I like I liked his I liked his appeal. I like the appeal of drongo, but yeah, I just playing him wasn't Was it fun? Hmm should be cool Yeah Well, I hope that we get more news going from here on out We'll have all four games in the news every week. Yeah, I hope so. I hope so god Yeah, I'm new zero so long. Yeah. Yeah That'll be nice Uh, all right. I think that's about it for for tonight unless you guys had any any final closing comments. You wanted to say No, uh All right plugs Okay, you got a papa k gaming Um, yeah, papa k gaming on tiktok and then papa k. I think you just type in papa k on youtube, but yeah And I'll have those linked in the description in the uh The timestamp comment below if you guys want to go check them out jelly Just the the usual twitch.tv slash jelly knees Uh marvelous monday on most mondays Not Not this one Um at eight o'clock mountain time Uh, what about you man goose? I got nothing. So that is going to wrap it up for this week. Um Yeah, I hope you guys are all looking forward to these games This it's a it's a good time to be A third person moba fan because there's a lot going on and hopefully with um with predecessors throwing up We'll get we'll get that stress test coming and get the experience predecessor again Overprime was an absolute blast ethereal was really fun fault. You could play every day and you Uh, you you could find a lot wrong with fault, but you can find a lot to love about fault as well If you actually get in there and play the game, but uh, yeah, that is going to close it out for this week So we will see you guys next time my food Man goose Special shout out to channel members foolish blood hunter jelly knees me. I'll mix for men stunt farith and raven