 Well, hey everyone welcome to Tuesday tea so glad that you could join us today I have been patiently waiting for today's tea because I'm joined Once again by one of my favorite people in the world. Have their reading with plan or protect I approached Heather a few months ago about doing this tea and I'm so glad she agreed to do this Heather Thank you so much for joining us today and welcome to the Tuesday tea Thank you so much. I Thrilled to be well first of all just thrilled to spend any time with you and it has to be virtual unfortunately But I'll take it whenever and in whatever shape I can get it But really actually excited about what we're going to chat about today, too It's kind of a topic that I Struggle with so looking forward to talking it out. Well, and do you remember the Preface to this. Do you remember why I reached out to you about this particular topic? I Remember some of it. I so fill me in but I know that you and I had had a discussion I had just taken a little workshop on imposter syndrome because I truly do feel like I struggle with it and We are talking about one of the Methods or solutions that this particular Moderator had had suggested we use and I had shown you I the picture of what? was the outcome of that workshop and Yeah, but I'm remembering what was the context though that we got even on it Well, you had just started posting a video on my video and you were very very authentic and Vulnerable in that process. So it was a it was a culmination of things in your videos You were talking about Vulnerability and imposter syndrome while being vulnerable and probably going through the syndrome Anyways, it created a visceral reaction in me. I was so proud of you But I also felt every single word that you said I felt that pain I mean, it wasn't that long ago. I was on video for the first time and I knew all of the emotions and the The physical feelings of doing something brand new for the first time. So anyways, that Is what made me reach out to you. I mean, I love talking to you same thing I love talking to you in any way shape or form But yeah, reaching out to you about that is really what I wanted to encourage Everyone else to try and do Because here you were trying something that was so foreign to you and you did a fantastic And I'm so glad you reminded me that because I Set out to do videos every Friday and I got four out No problem at all. And then I really so the imposter syndrome crept in and then I had My husband ended up going into a merge and spending a week in the hospital and then my daughter got Covid so so I missed a Friday. So I thought okay. I've missed one I have a really good reason and then the second Friday came that I didn't do a post and Well, I still have a good reason my daughter sick now, right? Then it just you know For me, I think it was I still could have I We've got us a whether my husband was in the hospital or my daughter was sick I still could have put out a video because it's not hours and hours of my life for those four weeks That I did manage to put out a post It was you know, 15 20 minutes I would think about what I wanted to say and then fire it off and I had made myself a promise I was doing one take I wasn't going to do it over and over and over again Whatever it was going to be was going to be in the one take But it did creep in in a very serious way Of why am I doing this? I am not qualified to be talking about this. Who am I to be talking about this? You know, why do I want to talk about this in such a public way? and and it really did it allowed me to take Some excuses some reasons that weren't huge And they became huge in my mind to the point where I haven't done the video since The third week of february and I had made it a commitment That I was going to do them every friday for the rest of the year. I wanted to look at Redefining success was actually the topic that I wanted to because I really struggled with that topic for myself internally is You know, I I had very large expectations for myself as a early 20 year old And I've had to really kind of unwrap and unpack What I was thinking at that point in my life and where I am now and how drastically different it looks um, and so that's what I started out to look at was you know That topic of of redefining success, but then that whole postured stuff came in and it really played with my head And actually the other piece of it why I stopped was I had asked someone for some feedback And it wasn't positive and I really took and it was let me say it was positioned as Constructive and it was absolutely came from a really good place From that person, but I took it so personally like and again the questions kept well. Why am I doing this? I'm not good at it. You know, I'm not you know Just all sorts of things that then just crept in so it's interesting That because I've been called out on that Just in the last Two days about you know, like why am I not getting back to those? What's my excuse now? What what is stopping you? This is something that you wanted to do um, and I have to say that it is because negativity and A lack of confidence crept in and I allowed excuses to take over so you know, so The research I've done on imposter syndrome and I want to ask you this question now before it leaves me Imposter syndrome and receiving constructive feedback. That's kind of two things that are almost battling We were looking for positive feed or we're looking for feedback And and helpful ways that we can improve But that lends itself to imposter syndrome and I heard this advice once That if the feedback you're soliciting comes from someone who's a couple steps ahead of you You can learn from it, right? And you take that feedback and you can learn from it and imposter syndrome doesn't creep in So I'm curious to ask if the person who gave you criticism if they are also showing up live on video They do in their professional life. Yes, and very much two steps ahead of me But you know, it was it It just I thought I was really proud of those videos and I was I was really engaged with what The comments were afterwards and but the other part of it was was I've exhausted what my thinking is And so then it became not so much, you know, I I had ideas about what I wanted to talk about But it was then I was going to have to start doing some work about What do I want to talk about this week kind of thing? And so it was just a combination but so powerful Uh to know that that's how quickly things can become derailed What I really want but yet that whole fear of being Found out and I don't know what found out is because in my mind it's big but in reality, it's not a real thing um, and so Yeah, very very interesting So when you were going through that, um, what Tactics did you use to kind of pull yourself out of it and remind yourself that You are worthy of a place on video. You are worthy of of sharing your voice What did you do to kind of pull yourself out of the imposter syndrome? Well, I haven't done my magic on that one yet because uh, I haven't recommitted to the video But I have gone. I mean this has been a cycle for me for decades Um, and I know um, I actually read a really powerful book The secret thoughts of successful women and it's by valeri young. Um, I believe she's phd Um, and I know valeri actually I met her in a master-minding group great lady. Um and she wrote this book and it was very much Talking about how women experience this how it differs from men it does show up in men for sure um And just about some of the solutions and so one of the things that I'm talking to other people so just like this like even just realizing that it's not just me right really there are so many amazing women and men who uh, I who have this struggle of not feeling adequate or competent or Have enough achievements that sort of thing uh to realize that you're not alone now She did say and I thought it was brilliant that you can't share your way out of imposter syndrome So, you know, you can talk all about it. You can't share your way out of it. So just talking is not enough. You've got to do some actual uh physical kinds of things and so um for me, I'm just constantly coming back and just claiming My abilities and my expertise and saying no, I am good at this. I am Extremely good at this I'm not so good at this and why am I beating myself up for not being so good at this, right? Like no one is competent and brilliant in all respects So why am I beating myself up for not being stellar in one area? um And and I think that's an important Check and balance to realize that, you know, I don't need to be the be all and end all on everything I have my areas of strengths um and The rest good enough, you know, it doesn't have to be the perfect. Um I think there's also just that perfect that notion of perfection is that um for me, it's interesting. I I've struggled with Really wanting to I don't think I want to come across as perfect, but I want to come across as smart intelligent um, you know, um accomplished um and It also relates to me physically Um, I tried it where I feel I am deficient physically. I try to make up for in other areas So it it does. I really constantly struggle with there is no one on the planet perfect Why do I think I need to be? Um, why why do I struggle with that? So, um, but you know, it's yeah How do you how do you handle it? Like do you struggle with it? Do you? Are you kidding me? It's You know And it is rearing its ugly head. Um in this particular season for sure for me. Um So it's it's funny because I um, I so my blog post that just went out last week Which is why we're doing tea today. Heather is about imposter syndrome and I wrote that blog post about a month ago Okay And I wrote it before I launched Um, it was my second launch of my linkedin course. Yeah, so I was feeling okay because I was getting ready to launch my course um, I set a small goal, um, I was I just set a very relatable achievable goal Uh, because I didn't want to set myself up for failure. Yeah, and now fast forward. I've gone through the launch I fell short of my goal so I'm in this massive season of Imposter syndrome and now I'm trying to build another course and I'm and just it's just it's ripping me apart However, and you know, I I wonder if your um friend's book talks about this I'm also going through menopause and so I was talking to a couple of my friends the other day and A lot of my imposter syndrome is being compounded by the hormonal changes I'm going through Um, so when I have imposter syndrome, I am like Down I am so down. I like I don't even know if I can get any further down And for the first time in my life I've had to and this has happened Three times over the past six months where I've been so incredibly low That I've had to go hold on this is not me like I am a positive person I bounce back from I love failure, you know, even my launch when it failed. It was like, okay That sucked, but here are the things that I can fix for next time Um, but then I fell fall into these depressions and imposter syndrome. It attacks me so hard when I'm down there Um that it's it's been sometimes like days before I can pull myself out in the fall It was about 10 days this past season. It was about three days where Like there was there was nothing good about me, you know, and you've been there. We've all been there I know I'm not alone, but there was nothing I have zero skill. I have zero talent I I'm no one is going to hire me ever like those are the thoughts that Invaded me And when I figure it out other than the hormonal imbalances, I'll let you know um My blog post I I took a different I guess angle on the blog post is I Outlined it with things that we actually say to ourselves And one of the quotes that um Is in the post is about, you know, I don't feel like anyone's going to care about my story um, and I know the truth is You're right Probably not everyone is going to care about my story But my story might help one person and that's reason enough to share the story Um, so I think people who are suffering from imposter syndrome to your point They have to be perfect and they have to please everyone and they have to be everything to all people But if you're just somebody's Inspiration for the day for one person That's enough. That's that's your service. And so I I'm really trying to come back to that that no matter how Clumsily I go through things even these live videos and yeah Video, but I keep doing it because I know at least one person will get something of value out of that That will help them with their day their career their journey whatever it is that they're on Um, that's a hard thing to remember When you step up to the microphone like you do on fridays, you know, you have those thoughts Well, who's going to listen to this? Who's going to care? Trust me? I care. I care so deeply about what you say in your videos ironically because I'm also redefining success in my life after 25 30 years Divergent paths like our paths are actually leading away from one another in our because we're both in the same industry But now we're both kind of going this way But yet we're so parallel in how we're Approaching the next season of our life. It's quite fascinating Well, I think a lot of people in our industry, which is the meetings and events industry We're drawn to because we are a certain personality type, right? I think we are the the orchestrators of so much and the creatives and the you know the brilliant minds behind events and You know, you don't get to create these Experiences and magic if you have a laissez-faire kind of attitude, right? We are a certain level and personality type that we are the type base. We are the overachievers We are the the dreamers. We are the visionaries that that pull this stuff together and you know We don't aim for Good enough in our professional life You know for events it needs to be as close to perfection as you can get and that lends itself I think to people that are drawn to our industry And so it's it's interesting you say that I mean we are going like you're going into the marketing and branding and And I don't know where quite I'm going. I hope to stay in the industry but I am actively working on a plan b if I if you know if there isn't the capacity for me to stay but And I think that's also part of this, you know overachiever kind of thing that you know I grasped the the concept of going back to school full-time At my lowest point was it the smartest decision? Maybe maybe not right But it was made in a in a Hail Mary like oh, I've got to get out of this instead of just being able to sit there and And and be content with that it was well. What can I do? What can I do? What can I fix? You know, how do I get out of this kind of low point? So You know, I think yeah But I I think we're also very much women that like to achieve and like to be of service and And constantly doing is part of of part of that so but yeah, I think the I think imposter syndrome for me I Actually that so I'll share with you the the methodology that this gal shared which has been very powerful for me She she related it to imposter syndrome kind of shows up as that person that Kind of always was your nag, right? Like someone that was just You hear it in a certain voice in your head. So for some people it might be their mother For some people it might be their spouse For some people it might be a a boss that they had that was just, you know, a dreadful fit Um, and it shows up as this voice and what she suggested that we do is to Name it and give it a different voice in your head so that you're not Associating those feelings with someone that is real that is has had an impact on your life in some way Um, and so she said to you know, look at a character or create an avatar And give it a name That you know like no knock it off, you know, like so and so this is not real Whereas it's very difficult. So let's use your mother for example If it was mom that was you know, kind of the one that was you know, you just didn't meet expectations Or you didn't live up to potential or you know, whatever the case might be If it's mom that you hear in your back of your mind Then if you rename it, that's a much easier thing to say. Okay. No, this is not true What I am thinking what I am feel like I'm inadequate for what I feel like I am You know, I don't measure up where I feel like I you know, fall short. That's not real Those are just feet, you know Ideas that are in your head that you need to get rid of so I named mine Actually the I wasn't very creative because the instructor Used the example of Ursula from the little mermaid and I mean you if you can picture Ursula She's like this large is an octopus. I don't know what she is You can see the bright led lipstick. You can see the spiky kind of blondish gray hair You can see the kind of the chubby fan. I'm like, oh my god and and it was The image that she gave was she chose Ursula because those long eight legs kind of wrapped itself around her And kind of took hold of her right and not in a good way That it really just kind of gets a hold of you and doesn't want to let you go unless you are physically doing something to release it And so I thought well, I'm not going to look any further. I can identify with Ursula And so I I'm going to tell you I'm going to show you I have Ursula that shows up And I have her printed out Um, and it's right up above my screen Because every time I try to like go down that path. I think no no no no no hold on I am good enough. I do know my stuff I do know where I'm strong and I'm learning where I'm weak and it's okay to say I'm weak in some area Um, and so at the I call her my inner critic And when I start to feel it's like no Ursula. This is not true. This is not true. I can do this Um, so anyways kind of uh, I thought it was just I was meant to take that workshop that morning it was like an 8am workshop and uh, you know, but it was so powerful for me to Just start to rename it and to say no That doesn't need to take over. It'll probably always be there for me Um, like I I agree with Valerie. This is you can't really talk it out. You can't share it out Um, but you can learn to identify it and then mitigate it. So But anyways, it's kind of an interesting, uh Um, very visual and I am like when I see something I know it right and I I'm not a Um I don't see things in my mind. I need to see things physically and so for me It's just right up on the wall. Um, and I look at it and go, okay. Yeah, it's not it's not me You showed me Ursula before and you're right I think I was getting so hung up because I was going to find my Ursula. Yeah, Ursula is so perfect I don't think I'm gonna be able to find another Ursula. I'm just gonna put Ursula as well Um, so I move on to the next step and actually now Talk to Ursula rather than talking to the nameless faceless That's sitting out there. Um You you said something interesting that it has to be visual and Um, I think I think that's what I need to do as well because when I'm down There's nothing that's gonna pull me out of it But if I had a visual and I could identify in that moment that this isn't of me This is The imposter syndrome setting in maybe I can find myself rebounding a little bit quicker with those visual cues I found myself leaning on my vision board during On myself leaning on my vision board a lot Um, and it did help. Um, it was a very temporary effects Almost like people who just need to smoke a cigarette So like I visit my vision board like 10 times a day because I would get A little bit of energy to maybe okay move forward and then I'd fall back into again And so I'd have to spend more time on my vision board. So, um, but I love the Ursula image So I'm gonna incorporate Ursula with my vision board and See if that helps. Um So I'd like to revisit when you got that criticism or you got that negative comments because And we both have kids And so I'm going somewhere with this we both have kids in a world where People are posting things online and and posting negative things online. You can call them trolls. You can call them whatever Um, you want but what advice would you have not only I guess for your kids who might be facing that online criticism But for people like me who like yourself You get maybe 10 15 20 100 positive comments But it's that one negative just one It's all it's and you fix you fixate on it. You you sleep like you dream about it. You wake up thinking about it It's all you do. I mean I need advice. How do I get myself? Focusing back on the positive comments I don't know how you do it. I uh, but I do know I can completely and utterly relate Um, so as you know, uh, so in the events industry I speak about contracts, right? So the least sexiest, you know area of expertise to have in our industry. However I'm very passionate about it and I love to speak I absolutely feel no more alive anywhere else in the world than when I'm on a stage and I I love that and I I want that But I completely agree with you that when the feedback comes in I can look at all of the positive But I am like a laser to the negative And it is the negative that I dwell on over and over again And I constantly think well, what you know, what could I have done differently or why did they? You know, why did they feel that way and everybody else didn't like I don't say well, they're the outlier I look at them and then say okay. Well are all the rest of them lying, right? I don't look at it as the proof or the pudding is in all of the positive and the negative must be the outlier, right? And and I I I don't know I reached out many many times when I first started speaking and and to coaches and mentors people that that speak for a living and They'd say you just have to learn to disregard them You can't you can read them and let them go like you just have to let it's like well, okay that's easier said than done I must be a learned skill because I still I I actually think I find myself purposely looking for those negative. Oh, well, okay. Yeah It validates that I wasn't as good as I you know, I had hoped to be I didn't deliver and and that's a Bad spot to be because I think there are a lot of people that are gifted with They they see the positive and that's where they they live. They don't dwell on that negativity and I Yeah, I don't have an answer Lee Ann other than you know, maybe it is a matter of just becoming You know, it's interesting because I I've spoken now. I think 2015 16 was one of the first time I spoke it'd be interesting to know Now if you know if a negative comment came in be interesting for me to just sit back and see if I actually really do Dwell on it as long as I used to right I I think I still do I still will and I still do But I don't think it affects me as much or for as long And because I I think I also have a list of things where so for for me Um, I have a friend that reached out to me and asked if I wanted to be kind of accountability mastermind Well, I think of her as like an amazing guru in our industry I think of her is just you know way up and as a just on a pedestal I've put her up there and it took me a long time to really feel worthy of being Accountable masterminding with her Um, and she brought the idea up a couple of times and I would just kind of sluff it off and say Oh, yeah, that'd be great But it wasn't until she actually made the deliberate effort to reach out and explain to her to me Why she wanted to do this that I kind of sat back and went. Oh, wow. You see that in me I think of her as way way up here and I'm not worthy And yet she sees me completely different and and so Yeah, I think when there's examples like that like Being in masterminds where you realize that other people are struggling with the same thing But you're on the same par as them, you know When you when you hold your own ground, I think that's But it shows up in a lot of places for me I'm working on a on a set of contract reviews for a client right now And it's a planner that intimidates me. I guess going to put it out there And can I tell you that I am over What's I am trying to over achieve Like I don't in a lot of other cases Impress and I think okay, Heather get your head around this That planner came to me seeking what I know Why am I so worried about impressing that planner? You know because I'm constantly questioning What I do what I know How good I am at it, right so Yeah, it's it's an interesting beast It isn't it though like And we have story after story after story about how it presents itself You know your mastermind it presented itself there and then this meeting planner it presented itself there Like that's just in the past two or three months and it keeps showing up again and again But to your point and you said this at the beginning of the show You know what your strengths are and where you and what you're really really good at and those are the things you're really really good at Like can you imagine Like if If it was a skill that you were still working on and and the feelings of doubt that we would have Yeah, it would just like it would derail you for Days and weeks so I'm hoping that you're coming out of it Especially as you do these contracts and as you connect in this mastermind I think I think we still do right like it hasn't stopped me It's just that I need to constantly have this conversation with myself that You know because it is stuff that I love and I I As soon as I'm done one I want to start the next one and and But it's still just that internal dialogue where I have to just say no I know it and I you know I can put it out there and and this is good enough and um, I think the sad thing would be is if I shut down because of it if I stopped doing it, right? I think it's okay to deal with the with the thoughts But when they take over and you stop then that's when it's one It uh To me, I haven't stopped and I don't intend to It just makes it a little bit more of a struggle to do for me. I don't know about you But for me, I think the way that shows up the greatest is through procrastination um I truly struggle with procrastination I had someone say, you know Well, when you say it that way you're you know, you're invoking procrastination. It's like no, I I think my the procrastination in me is very much from I want to put off Not feeling inadequate or smart enough or whatever. I want to put it off until you know I possibly can't put it off any longer and then something becomes good enough, right? So it's it's that I I don't want to do it because I if I was to start a project early I would be so worried about perfection Um, that if I just put it off put it off put it off Then if it comes to the 11th hour and it has to be done It's done. Yeah, I'm I'm pretty much always proud of what I do, but it's good enough, right? It doesn't have to be perfect because it's just got to get done. Um, so I find that procrastination for me is is the way it shows up the most consistently Is that I just put stuff off? So I I'm not in a season of procrastination being my biggest enemy. I've been there in the past for sure Um, I'm in a different kind of season with a different kind of challenge. I think for my own imposter syndrome episodes But you said something super interesting that I think Everyone needs to hear we need to hear it on a daily basis is When we're creating something it never has to be perfect It it just needs to be good enough or we or we would never ship it ship the work And there's uh, the there's a book about shipping creative work that I just finished a few months ago Seth Godin is called the practice He's a marketing guy, of course. So I I've gobble up all his stuff um And he talks a lot about procrastination and imposter syndrome holding us back from shipping the work And and perfectionism from shipping our work But that's again what sets people like you and I may be apart from someone whose Stone cold fear will never ship a piece of work Because it has to be perfect. It has to be this it has to be that My best friend is actually like that. We have this discussion all the time because she's a perfectionist And when I say to her done is better than perfect. She's like, uh, there's no way that that is right So we have this interesting debate about Done and being done and being perfect Because I think it presents itself and holds people back from shipping their creative work And that's imposter syndrome, right Yeah, what what the story we're telling us then is You aren't good enough. You need to be perfect in order for this to resonate with anybody So unless it's perfect, don't even bother. That's just their narrative. We're telling ourselves Um, and that's that's paralyzing. There's people who you know so much Value in in what they have to share And they're just holding it back because it's just it's just too scary to put it out there So and that's what imposter syndrome does to us Yeah creative is so subjective too. If you if if you're in that creative field, it's so subjective what what is You know perfection to you may be, you know dastardly to another person But yet, you know, if it's if it's science if it's math if it's, you know Grammar whatever it might be There there is right and wrong with those whereas creative is very much your own kind of Interpretation of something and I can see where that would be Very in you know intimidating to put yourself out there To show a side of yourself that is open for interpretation that is not a black and white kind of You know, we know it to be right or we know it to be wrong Wow, that's uh, what does that person do for income? Hopefully it's not her job that is her cream Well, but but it is interesting because those types of people are very happy In their roles at an organization. They're not entrepreneurs, but they're at an organization Where there's a paycheck and there's certain hours that they have to meet in certain criteria laid out by Their boss, but there's no room in their role for themselves. They've carved out zero room in their role to try something new So meeting planners are not in that boat, especially this past year as they jump one virtual platform to another to another to another They're constantly creating. They're constantly learning. They're constantly trying new things. They're putting it out there They're seeing what sticks they're changing it up for the next time Like those are people that are continually having to fight imposter syndrome to get to the point where I'm Launching this virtual event and I'm using this platform that I've never used before but We're gonna do it. Anyway, and I love those people But there aren't a lot of people in our industry who don't have that creative freedom Um, and so they're they're kind of stuck um And I and I AV people again, I think are not in that. These are the people that um, so let's take this for example. I used to use zoom for uh, my lives And didn't like the experience. Uh, it just was just a bit clunky Um, couldn't really get comments back. And so now I'm trying stream yard. Well the first time I tried stream yard It was terrible like I I was like is am I live am I live? like it was um I even still kind of do that. I was wondering if you were live today, but now that I've tried it and like it wasn't perfect but now Now it's a better user experience, but there's a lot of people who Won't get off of zoom Nothing more to learn here. So we're just gonna keep using zoom and I think that's holding them back from Exploring all the other technologies that are out there. That's just one very small example of fear and imposter syndrome holding us back from Creating something new or exploring something new. We're adding a new skill, right? And you've been doing that all Long It's adding new skills and compounding on your strengths and that's That's why it made it saddens me to hear that imposter syndrome holds you back because you were such a role model for people Who who want to step out of their comfort zone and try something new and it's just fear holding them back And I hope they hear your story and see okay. Yeah, you know what? Heather's struggling with I did it. She's still like in full-time school at 56. Yes Yeah, like what the heck am I thinking at But yeah, you know, I think if the first step is the worst step or maybe the first step is sometimes the best step I don't know which way you want to look at it It's probably the best step if it, you know, when you when you go on It's the worst step because it's the hardest one to take But it yeah for me like Part of the evolution was I don't want to sit still. I don't do well You know just kind of not having I think we're drawn to this industry if we love pressure If we love a high threshold for work if we, you know I want to be firing on all cylinders all of that kind of thing and And the longer that we got into 2020 the more I found myself just literally Just kind of going. What am I doing? I can't keep going. I can't imagine another month of just nothing compelling in my day And so for me it was probably in truth a knee jerk reaction to an incident I had happened But yet it's been a perfect thing because I am again firing on all cylinders I am using my brain my, you know, business is starting to come back And I love being busy. So in hindsight, it was, you know, uh, it was a really really good step And it just keeps growing like I my brain keeps growing and and So yeah, I think it's uh, uh, it's been it's been a bold move. Hi my I'm the oldest in the class, but uh, You know, I also look at it and I it's interesting because some of them are 18 So it's a college program. So some of them have come straight out of out of high school And I I look and I go, oh wow That's just not going to be relevant in life, dear Right. And so, you know part of me says going back you just have a completely different perspective when you've been through seasons of life And you think okay, really this is so petty so small and yet she's this gal's entitled to it because that's the stage at which they're at You just have a different lens and and you know, I let stuff go that some of them dwell on and I'm sure I kind of Fester about things that they think are irrelevant to so who knows but it's been an interesting thing to your point Taking taking going back to school at this season of your life You're so much ahead of the game because you've had that life experience and that's what someone had to remind me of the other day Um, because I'm at a certain age now and I'm trying to start a new career And so when a foster syndrome strikes a lot the the the talking head is that you're way too old to do that Especially in an industry That's dominated by millennials right now, you know branding and marketing is not where 48 year old gray haired woman should be hanging her hat So that's ageism is really what what tackles me but at the same point The lens I have about how to create a personal brand after doing it for 20 years in my former Career or my secondary career. Yep my lens on how on what works what doesn't work What things you should keep testing is different from the 25 year old instagram influencer, right? Completely different lens. I'm talking to a completely different audience But I have to remind myself every day that that 25 year old instagram influencer. She's not my competition She is not someone who's competing for the same audience. She's got a completely different Um audience with her material and with you it's the same thing that the types of jobs and the types of um industry Appointments that you'll get after this are going to be different than that 18 year old who's in the class beside you Yeah, that's that's very truly in and I think probably your life is like you can do the learning But they can't do the living like you you can make right like they can't make up for 30 years of living Yet they will but right now they can't they can't fake the living experience that you bring to it You you are all getting the same education um or the same, you know training or or whatever but you can't replace the life experience and and uh I think that's Yeah, and I see that play out in school and and and even just you know the wisdom to to be able to pull back or think about things and um, you know Sort out what's valid and what's you know, just the chafe. There's all those sorts of things that uh Come with with being older Well, and I find that presents itself with books Well nonfiction books at least for me is I don't think there's a few titles that I have that I have reread and different things in the books have Spoken to me in the different seasons of reading them and I'm finding that right now I'm rereading or I just finished rereading rework Um, it's jason freed and someone else. They have a website 37 something. It doesn't matter But it's very much about marketing and new business very much about the entrepreneurial journey and when I read it three years ago, um I was still in my role You know the my role at conference direct and I pulled different things out of it Based on where I was um at at that time That's what it was is I was in between going from helms brisco to conference direct and reading that book about entrepreneurship And now two and a half years later It's about this new journey and just different things are speaking to me in that book And so that's kind of that life experience or that season of life that we're in that different things are gonna Going to speak to us and resonate with us Um, I would like to talk if you have time About the video series itself and redefining success um because I'm in a space in my life where With this massive pivot of mine. I feel I have to redefine Uh success like from top to bottom Um, and I'm struggling with it heather. I'm not gonna lie. I'm really struggling with my worth Because for the past 20 years, it's a bit all about my job all about Growing my business and I had a great business And then when covet hit not only did the business disappear But I spent more time with my family and more time in my garden and Really started to enjoy those things And so this whole perfect storm of how I redefine success has been top of mind Because prior to covet my success meter was solely work. It had nothing to do with my family my home Nothing and now it's my meters on the opposite end And I'm trying to find that happy medium and so I would love to know where you are at today with that whole redefining success and and and your questions and your challenges That is such a loaded question It really is and it's though I've so last year was really I was in a speaking program and coaching speaking coaching program and I really did a lot of soul searching. I'm trying to figure out what I think I've always felt that I could Actually, you know what and I'm going to say this and I'm going to say it publicly I wrote in a book. I was in a High-level mastermind group with three gentlemen in the states and they are all well well known people um And I wrote in the book one day in in one of the sessions that my greatest fear is dying with greatness inside of me Now that sounds arrogant as I'll get out when you when I look at it. I just I am I am So afraid of dying with not fulfilling everything that I could be I have had a feeling since as long as I could remember that I Was meant to do something great and part of me what I thought it was going to be Get out of university get out of grad school and I was going to go straight up the corporate ladder to the ceo office and honestly, I didn't even get I a year and a half in a corporate environment, but then I We moved and so It's just circumstances No blame anywhere, but we moved we moved out of Toronto into London I went back and forth for a year. I took the train down on a Tuesday came home on a Thursday It was ruining our marriage. And so I made the decision and quit and life never felt um I don't even want to the word is But I never felt like I well, I never got to a ceo I I never got to where I thought I was going to be And for years and I I'm going to say decades I felt like I hadn't measured up to my potential um And and so it's taken a long time a lot of work For me to realize that my little planning company that I started as a default. I was an accidental planner my You know, I'm staying at home with two kids and raising them and you know um Taking the good and the bad of that, right? We we often tease that we've saved for their therapy not for their education, right? It uh, You know doing, you know, I I did whatever was needed to contribute But I never felt like I lived up to the potential of who I thought I could be professionally Um, and it wasn't until actually my husband got really kind of angry with me and said You have done You've raised two kids that are very successful and great human beings You have had Employees for years that you helped pay their mortgages That allowed them to have the life still that they wanted for their families You have contributed professionally to the lives of 30 000 people Based on the number of named I always thought as well. I make name badges for a living He said no, you've contributed to the professional development of those 30 000 people Um that we made name badges for you know, I could I just always saw the short coming side of it rather than What it really meant to the other to the people on the other side of it Um, and it's taken me a long time to realize and take ownership and claim Yeah, you know what I did do amazing things It just wasn't the path that I thought I would take where I saw myself and so for me I got success in a in a dictionary or court is defined as wealth and favor and eminence And so I've had to I focused on the wealth and and I think you know, I've never had a big business Well, no, but I put my kids through school. They both have post-secondary education because of the business that I had I paid employee salaries I you know, I was able to go out one day and buy a kick-ass motorcycle for my husband You know, like it just because of the work that I'd done And it wasn't just about the paycheck or the the bottom line of my business and Um, I just felt less than for many many many many years that I it just wasn't I wasn't measuring up Um, and so for me this whole concept of success. I think I needed to do the work to say I I didn't have the success that I thought I would have in my 20s But I need to let go of that crap because I do have success I am successful and I will continue to be successful Because it's on the terms that are meaningful for me My my marriage my family and those that I love it doesn't have to be by anyone else's standards Um, and so that is the premise by which I was starting to unpack Why have I felt so? um Like I have so many shortcomings when really um, when I look at What I have done that those are great things and you don't have to do a lot If that's what you're content with then that should be success It's not what your neighbor does. It's not what your colleague does It's if you go to bed at night feeling good about what you've done um, you know that that should be enough and and I just felt into the trap of not feeling like I measured up and that I've been able to shift around so Well, please I cannot wait for you to get posting again on live Well, okay You were meant to be today because I just actually had that discussion saying, you know, I'm I with it with the speaking program. I I was kind of like, uh, you know I have so much on my plate and I again was giving myself the excuse um, so you've inspired me leon Because it's like, okay. No, I do need to keep because that's it brought me joy It brought me and I I want to be able to shed light on maybe somebody else won't take 30 years to get to the position that What I'm doing. I'm successful at or it's enough for me or you know It's maybe not where I want to be but I can learn to be content where I am because I am going somewhere else So you've you've done me a huge favor today Well, and I'll give you the piece of advice. I heard once About creating content because it sounds like that was holding you back. Yeah, absolutely Remember that repetition is the mother of all skill So leaning back on the content you've already created or the message you've already delivered We still need to hear it nine times before it actually makes A fingerprint on on our lives. So don't be afraid to repeat stories And don't be afraid to repurpose messages that you already have Because we never got it the first time sadly In the same way that you were still working on imposter syndrome 25 years later it take it's a process and so you are now part of that process for me In redefining success and I'm excited to hear your next message. So I cannot thank you enough I made notes while we were doing this so many what I call proof bombs This this is an episode that people need to hear You are such an inspiration to me. You are such a light your vulnerability is inspiring And I know I know you are going to impact so many people with the work that you do Because you definitely impact me and you are welcome to have tea with me Any week you just any week you want to do more video. You just let me know Uh, you you just you know, you and I met late in the industry I wish I'd met you 10 years ago because I when we actually did physically just sit down and have a conversation It really clicked. Um, so I I held you in such high esteem And it's been a privilege. I I hope you know when you said about the vulnerable I I've learned I think when you have a certain amount of experience in your life And if there's trauma involved, I think we learn to be vulnerable because that's where the healing is And I think if if we can continue if I can continue to be vulnerable and say the hard things That in itself helps me as much as it might help someone else. So thanks for the opportunity to be vulnerable and to share and to Yeah, let's just book a tea time in six months from now I agree. I agree. Oh, thank you to the point We could probably revisit this topic in six months and it would be a brand new episode with brand new tips things that we've learned over the past six months So maybe that's what we do And we just keep this conversation going because you and I are not alone and a lot of people need This message they need this inspiration and they need to know that they are enough as well. So Thank you Yes Thank you everyone for joining us for Tuesday tea in the show notes I'm going to put some of the resources that heather mentioned so you can find that in the Put yours too because I want to find yours too. You you mentioned several books Yes, I will I will I'm going to write it down right now re-work in the practice re-work practice right down now. All right Thanks for everybody. Thanks everyone for watching heather. Thank you again. I will be in touch very soon. Love you lots Thanks everyone. Bye for now