 Exposing your body to cold water has a lot of benefits. Here's one of them. It has anti-depressive and anti-anxiety effects. In fact, studies show it may be as effective or maybe even more effective than classic SSRI drugs for mild to moderate forms of cold depression and anxiety. No joke, cold water therapy, anti-depressive. It actually makes you feel better in the long term. But, Sal, it stunts your ability to build muscle. Oh, God. There's really only one negative, and it's shrinkage. Yeah. Everything else positive. Justin's like, it makes me more depressed. I don't know why. Aw! No, so muscle building, that's the funny thing. No, no, not if you use it right, and if you work out more, and if you do it separately from your workout. So that's stupid. That's just a social media, I guess, hook or whatever. So don't worry about that. No, it's got effects on the body to reduce anxiety and depression, and there's studies that show that's more effective, in some cases, than those drugs. And you talk about the side effects, right? Oh, you might build less muscle if you do it right after your workout or whatever. There's no side effects at SSRIs. Right. Like erectile dysfunction, weight gain, and all that stuff. No, it's crazy. I mean, think about it. Okay, so do you think, obviously I think both play a role, like do you think there's something to do with it's like what's happening on a chemical level or about your body's hormonal response to the stress in the water? Or do you think it's simply, cause you're talking about like depression, right? Like how, just like how it works with weightlifting. I think a lot of it has to do with just doing hard shit. Choosing to do it. Yeah, choosing to do something hard, getting through it and accomplishing it. The value is there, is like, so I don't, like when you've seen, I mean, obviously you've shared the studies with weightlifting and how it's effects. I would think that that's very similar to what- It is. It's both. I think, yeah, I mean, it really just builds your resistance, or your resilience towards hard things. Yeah. Like that come your way. So it's like, yeah, that's, I mean, there has to be like a massive value to that. Cause I know that even from like expending a lot of like crazy cardiovascular effort, like for me, like getting all that energy out, like it helps, you know, the rest of the day for me to actually relax and chill. Yeah, I know it's both. It's both. You'll produce feel good chemicals. Your CNS, your sympathetic nervous system responds to cold water immersion by actually relaxing. You actually get some fat burning effects, by the way. There's some metabolism boosting effects from doing this on a regular basis to where your basal metabolic rate goes up a little bit if you do this on a regular basis. I don't think it's this huge effect, but it's a nice selling point. How much of the whole brown fat conversion, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so brown fat is a thermogenic active form of fat that's used to heat up the body. It's a type of fat that you tend to burn. The white fats, much sticks around and exposing your body to cold converts some of that white fat to brown fat, which is kind of interesting. But I don't like to use, I don't like to sell the fat burning effects too much because people get weird about that. And it's a minor effect. Like it's not gonna affect you like, you know. It's like how, why we don't use that for the intermittent fasting, even though it can be a positive side effect that, oh, because you intermittent fast, you also got some, you burn fat because you ate less calories and there's benefits to it. But I don't think selling it for that reason is a good idea either. So it happens to be another positive side effect. You know what's interesting about this is as I was reading about the history of cold water immersion, it goes back thousands of years. Yeah. Like the Greeks and the, you know, I mean, one of our founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson used to put his feet in freezing water every morning and would talk about the health benefits. But yeah, it goes way back and it's been used in multiple cultures and the purported effects or benefits back then they would talk about invigorates the body, makes you resilient to illness or sickness, calms the nerves. This is what they were saying hundreds of years ago or thousands of years ago when they were using it. And what's cool about that is it's time-tested and because it's present in so many different cultures that didn't communicate with each other, you know there's some truth there. Yeah. Right? If they all kind of discovered this on their own, then there's probably some truth into kind of what's going on. And also this used to be a Western medicine prescription for anxiety. Do you guys know that? Really? Yeah. Early Western medicine days, if you were anxious they'd have you splash cold water on your face. Really? Yeah. Because they find that it helps reduce anxiety. Isn't that interesting? That is interesting. No, we don't do that anymore because we have drugs. I know we've brought it up but I still am fascinated by it. Is it in Russia where they have the kids go outside and snow and just roll around in there to interrupt their day? Maybe Doug can find that on YouTube where Russian school children play in snow. So I wanted to do this with Max and I just could, I'd lost, there's certain battles you just lose with the wife no matter how smart you are or how. What'd you tell her? Well I just- I'm gonna throw him in the snow naked. What inspired me was actually Kyle's son. Oh yeah. You remember that he's- They've never given him a warm bath. He's never had a warm bath. He had cold water from day one and they would go out in the ocean in winter time and his kid would be totally fine. He adapted to it. It was no big deal and I thought man this is, but boy Katrina would not, she would not go for it. Yeah, there's something to that. I remember because the ocean in Sanders is really cold. If you're not used to it and when I was a kid it was no problem. I could be in there all day long. It is an adult. I'm like, you got really like talk yourself up. Yeah, no, you know, and also in Russia they have a practice of when they do bathe their kids they finish the bathing with the cold rinse. So wow, what is that? Nursery children standing in the snow throw ice cold water over their own bodies. Look at that. That's awesome. That's gangster. It's an old practice, you know? It's been around for a long time. Isn't that crazy? Could you imagine, by the way, real quick. Could you imagine? You saw that here. An American school doing this. The lawsuits that they'd have. You made my kids do what? Triggered. Yeah. No, it would have. You should teach them how to masturbate. That's what we do here in America. What's up everybody? Today's free program giveaway is MAPS Aesthetic. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we post it. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. We will pick our favorite comment and we'll let you know in the comment section that you won. Also, we got a sale on some workout programs and workout program bundles. MAPS Cardio is 50% off. The Shredded Summer Bundle is 50% off and the Bikini Bundle is 50% off. So they're all 50% off. If you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, back to the show. Dude, are you, the stuff that's going on with Target right now? Oh, boy. How much they losing the market cap already? 9 billion. It's still going down. You know why? Because they fucked with moms, that's why. That's the big consumer right there. Yeah, that's what moms, dude. I mean, I really don't understand this pattern with businesses, like if you see a business like lose a huge amount of money, like why repeat the pattern? Well, I feel like the part where I thought went really far was like the Satan thing too. Just like, it's one thing to kind of make the huge aisle and the rainbow thing and all the tucks of which is already like. That was already kind of established, you know, like the rainbow stuff and like, you know, the pride, but like they just escalated it to the nth degree. Yeah, well, so. Yeah, we're going to go seek out it, like of all the companies in the world. Let's have the guy who's like, who's like. Let's go find a guy in the, in the, out of the country who is a, you know, self-proclaimed Satanist. Right. Who makes, you know, these pride clothes and let's put it in our Target store. Like that's just weird to me. Yeah, well, so, you know, it's, cause you gotta imagine, okay, so here's, my opinion on this is always like, we're a market-based society. So you want to sell something, the market will tell you if it's a good idea or a bad idea, but there's plenty of things that are sold in the market that do well that I don't disagree with, that I don't agree with. I mean, we sell shit that is unhealthy, that's terrible, that does well. So I'm not saying that it's good or bad, that the market says yes or no. All I'm saying is you're free to try. Yeah. And then see what the market says. Okay, so that being said, what's interesting to me. Well, that's why it doesn't make sense to me. Yes, like these companies are getting hammered for going too hard in this direction. There's no demand there. Well, it's coming from, it feels like it's coming from something else. It is, it has nothing to do with a consumer. It has everything to do with the shareholders and ESG stuff. There you go. That is what they're trying to appease that. It has nothing, you don't have to be, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know as Bud Light, what your consumer probably is, you don't have to be like, to know what Target is. Yeah. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the ESG bullshit. And then trying to score points with the shareholders. Yeah. That's, I mean, but. You know, that's a way, that's a very, that's a way of controlling the market from the top. Because our markets are relatively free, government can't go in or whatever and say you have to sell this or that. So they kind of found this like sideways way of doing it. Yeah. What scares me is when we start to see some weird bailouts or weird assistance from the government because of the ESG scores. That's what's gonna trip me out is when you see like, oh, we can't let Target collapse or fail. And so, oh, and they have a, they have a nine out of 10 ESG scores. I didn't even thought about bailouts, yeah. And so they come in and even if it's not like a full on bailout, they come in with support somehow. Listen, here's what's, this is a part for me. Like I've, look, I'm very pro live your life. Don't hurt anybody. It's all good. I don't have to agree with you. That's it. Bottom line, I've always been that way and I've always will be that way. I don't have to agree with you. I don't have to like you. As long as you don't hurt anybody stealing anything or damaging someone's property. Like do your thing. My morality is based off of my own beliefs and that kind of stuff. And if you're nice to me, I'm gonna be nice to you. I've always been that way, okay? Here's the, here's the strangeness of all of this, okay? These are little kids clothing and the little kids clothing are proclaiming sexual preferences. It would be strange for, I would feel just as, I would think this is just as strange. If I put on my two year old boy a shirt that says, I love girls. Or, Right, right. Yeah. You're two. You're two. You know what that is? It's not the kids. The kids don't want those messages. It's the parents putting, like they're showing on their kids. Here's my kid. Check it out. So it's weird. Here's my view on my kids. Yeah. And so parents who are very, by the way, Target shoppers are especially in places like California and we're seeing backlash even here. Parents are like, listen, this is enough. That's enough with like this, with the kids. That's all they're saying. Is activism ever going to calm down? No. That's what I want to know. No. It's too beneficial politically. Well, activism changed from helping people to just being angry. Yeah. It's just angry, upset. Like nobody's having a good time. No. That's all I see. And it's like, I don't know, man. And it's so crammed in society. Like culturally, it's just like, we're just getting inundated from every angle. Yeah. It's like, can you just live your life? I mean, the best thing that we can do is to vote with our dollar, right? I mean, I think, I did that with the year in the NBA. I mean, for someone who's such an avid viewer, for a year took off of watching the NBA because they went so heavy in the social justice department. And it was just like, I don't, You know what's funny about that? And here's the thing too, like this is kind of, because I'm like you in this way, Sal is like, I'm not the type of person who's going to make this massive stink and talk all in like, be all crazy about it. It's like, hey, if you asked me about it, I'll tell you, I'm not choosing not to watch it. Like, I don't want to watch it. I don't want to support it right now because I don't like the messaging that's going on there. I'm like, I love basketball. And maybe, and what happened was they changed after a year of that and viewership dropping down dramatically. Now they've pulled all that stuff out. Here's the part of that that pisses me off. The part of that was that at the time, now you're not going to hear this because now everybody knows. But back then, oh, you're not against racism. Oh, you must be racist. No, no, no. We knew early on that the organization BLM was a fricking grift. It was bullshit. It was not what they said it was. It was predatory. We know now, for a fact, that's exactly what they were. You see that they're bankrupt and they're paying themselves millions of dollars and they do a lot of stuff. They're grifting on, they attach to something and all these people who are manipulated or you just want to do good go out and they take advantage of them and then the NBA, like all organizations, they just want to appear to be a particular way, not necessarily be a particular way. And so that's what they did. And people who are hip to it were like, no, I'm not going to support this. I know what that organization is doing. They're not helping anybody. Well, I told Katrina, I said, for the month of, from now all the way through the month of June, we're not shopping at all at Target. And I think if enough people make just that statement and that move, I think that's enough to, and Target's already backpedaling. They already called an emergency meeting and they're already trying to pivot right now. And so I think if the people that agree with that, I think just by simply voting with your dollars and not spending money there for it, most people I know shop multiple times in Target every single month. One month of you not shopping there and everybody collectively that agrees with that, we'll make a huge debt in a business like that. In 2008, that's when Obama was elected, I believe. 2008, there wasn't a single politician that supported gay marriage because it was not popular enough publicly for a politician to come out and support it. I marched in support of the law to allow people to get married because I didn't think it was a religious thing. I said, if this is government and government is saying two adults can get married, then they should be able to apply that to everybody. And I marched for that. And I supported it. And I still support people living the way they want. And again, even if I disagree with it or whatever, I support it 100%. But when you start to over sexualize shit and go in directions that are just inappropriate, like I have an uncle who's, I mean, he's my grandfather's generation. He's lived with the same partner for years. He's gay, nobody cares about my family. We love him, he's a great guy. He stopped going to some of these parades because he's like, bro, he goes, people are bringing the kids to these, and these are hyper-sexualized. He goes, that's inappropriate. People are all naked and shit. And little kids are there. They seem like common sense. He's like, this is inappropriate. He goes, and I remember him telling me years ago, he goes, if they don't stop this, they're gonna get people to lose support just because of that. That's what's happening. This is not how they're, and now back to what you said about BLM with the NBA, people are gonna paint this as homophobic, transphobic, hating people. It's not that. They're going too far with how they're slowly indoctrinating and sexualizing. It's just like, hey, if you don't draw lines, it's just like, it's pressed further. It's just like the same bullshit with the COVID vaccine. If you were somebody who decided not to take that, you were an anti-vaxxer. Everything. It's like, wait a second. I took the other seven. I took seven other ones. I just chose not to take that one. Like, fuck off. It doesn't make you an anti-vaxxer because you passed on those. I live in the gray and the nuance. People just don't want to take the time to really discuss all the details of all these. I do believe the majority actually does aside and agree with you. I do. I think most people are in that space. But I also think that a lot of people are just easily manipulated. They blow like the wind. Or they're afraid of appearing because if you make everything black and white, if you don't support this, then you're this evil person. They're afraid. And they're like, well, I guess I'm not that. I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. I might not like me. Look, I've said this before and I'll say it again. Like the least interesting thing about someone is their sexuality and gender. Like, I want to know, are you a good person? What are you into? What do you like to read? What do you feel like that kind of stuff? Like who you're attracted to? That's not that interesting to me. I don't care. I don't care about that. No, I agree. Well, I have more controversial stuff. But before I get into controversial stuff. Yeah, because Doug's over there. I know, sweating in the chair. Loosen up his butt cheeks for a second here. So listen, guys, that's not. So the other day, we were talking about our kids and I'm in this weird, I don't know, maybe you guys can help me process this on how I should feel about it. But I don't ever want to come off as that dad when asked about his son. I have like the perfect kid, you know what I'm saying? Like, because deep down, I kind of feel like that. I'm like, God, I got a really good kid, you know? And when I talk to other parents and they're like, fuck, my kid's this and that. And so like, I'm on this mission. Like I'm going to find all the things about my kid that's shitty so I could share it. Yeah. So I'm like, I've been like thinking in that space because I'm like, he's such a good fucking kid. And I don't. I got bad news for you by the way about that. So there's a saying in, I think it's Sicilian culture that if they're like a great little kid, they're going to be a terrible teenager. So maybe I'll try and make him a little shit now or whatever with that. But anyway, so I just know that there's got to be parents that are like eye rolling when I talk about Max. Oh, sure. He's perfect. Yeah, he's so easy, right? So I'm like, okay. So I had a moment yesterday where he was a little shit. And I'm like, okay, I got to share this so people know that he's not a perfect kid. He does these little shit head. I also see myself in these moments, which is also quite comical, right? So I'm home earlier than normal yesterday. And so Max is not home from school yet. And Katrina says, you want to go with me to pick him up? And I'd love to go pick him up because it's a surprise for him when I come. I never come really. And so I pick him up. He's all excited. I get out of the car and come get him and put him in his car seat. So that, you know, they, Katrina and him have their little routine. Like he gets in the, he gets in his car seat. She hands him the first snack. He had said, then he gets the second snack. And then he's got his music that he gets to listen to. No, I'm driving, right? So I get, I get. No, no routine. So I get him and stuff like that. He does have a snack. And Katrina hands him a snack and her and I are kind of like, we're having adult talk, we're talking. And I have like, like light country music in the background. He's like, mommy, mommy, play, play Afro. And he, and he's in that phase right now where he listens to like one, one or two songs. Over and over. Fucking terrible songs or like not even a real song. It's like, it's a. Dude, Cotton Eye Joe, you know what I mean? It sounds like. Yes. It's like some of it's, it's Afro, Afro Jack from Madagascar. It's like the worst song ever, right? No, it's not like a circus song or whatever. It's like awful. And, and it's like, it's, you know, it's traffic time getting home. And so it's going to take us a good 15, 20 minutes to get home. And he's asking for it right away. And I'm, and I'm like, eat your snacks first. And then I'll, and then I'll, and then I'll, and then I'll play it. Right. And he just, he deaf ears me. Mommy, play Afro Jack. Like just, just just mommy play Afro Jack. You're not in charge. And I, I picked my, I'm driving. I'm looking at him in the river. I mean, I picked my phone up. The daddy's driving today. It's on my, it's on my phone. I'll play it when you finish your snacks. Knowing I got two snacks to get through that maybe I could buy like 15 minutes. Right. Stahl, Stahl, right. So you could see him just eating a snack. And he's like, oh, he's like, oh, yeah. Yeah. He's like, he's like fuming about it. Right. And so there's like silence in the car for like two minutes. And he's like angry and he's eating his things. And I go, Hey, how, how was school today? Max ignoring me. No way. I say, Max, did you, did you play with your, did you, did you play with your friends today? Ignore me. Eating his snacks like that. Earth to Max, Max, Earth to Max. And then finally I could treat it as a Max. Daddy is talking to you right now. And then he gets just like angry faces, starts to cry. He's like, I'm eating my crackers. I can't talk when I eat. You will shit. That's your song, bro. That's so your song when I eat. I can't talk when I eat as the boots in his mouth that he's talking and he's like crying about his little protest. Oh, it was a little protest. And I'm like, oh, you little shit. I'm like, oh, I'll play your goddamn music, dude. I do have like a guilty pleasure, though. Like of like a terrible song that I grew up as a kid like that. I think it's stuck with me forever. It'd be interesting if you guys have one, but it's called Popcorn and it's like the worst. Oh, I know where it is. It's not just. I remember that too. I used to just like when that would come on, I just bust out and dance. We, well, hold on. Did you guys, did you guys have to dance to it in elementary school? Did a guy come to your school and have you guys country dance or something like that? No, I don't know about that, but we did have a guy that would like play a lot of like folk songs and all that that would come on your class. I want to say sixth grade. Some dude came Mr. Penny. I don't know how I remember his name and he came out and he had us all dance. Mr. Duncan. That was mine. Really? Yeah. Okay. And he would have us do what's it called when you hook arms and turn and was like, like Dosey Dose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we had to learn these dances and popcorn was one of the songs. I remember popcorn. I remember the song too. That's my jam. You guys remember popcorn on the phone? I do. That's how you call the number. Yeah. He called the number 1-800 popcorn. Yeah. Is that what it was? 1-800 popcorn? I think it was just popcorn. Or just popcorn. Yeah. So does that still work, Doug? I don't know. So people don't know back in the day numbers had letters associated with them. So like one was like ABC2 was whatever. And if you dialed popcorn. Yeah, you get the time. Yeah. The Pacific Daylight time is. Doot, doot, doot, yeah. Yeah. And that's how we get the time. I think you can still do that. I did that not. I did that. Time lady. Well, it's been a long time. Do you also remember this? Okay. You've never been on nostalgia. You remember to get movie times? Yes. You'd have to call the movie theater. And then it was a recording. And you had to listen to all of it. And you missed it? And your song, or your movie by the comes and your buddy's talking to you. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, fuck, I missed the times. Yeah, listen to the whole thing again. Stop it. We all pissed. We were like fucking 20 minutes just to get to that. I hate that. I used to get all creative on the answering machines for the house. Yeah, because my dad would get so pissed. Because his friends would call or whatever. And I'd make some really stupid. Recording that would, I don't know. No, I'm still immature like that. I did that before the one I have right now on my phone. The last one was like, hello? Oh, you don't take care of that, does that? Hello? Oh, I hate that. Adam, Adam, come on, you got me. Leave it or not. You don't like it because that gets you home. Anybody else that's ever done that gets you every time? Every time. Every time it gets you. Because it's their voice, you know what I'm saying? Hello? Hello? You guys remember a three-way calling? When you would get a line? Yeah. Back in the day, you were like, party lines. Party line. Do you guys ever do this? It was like a chick thing. Were you, huh? You never did three-way calling? No. Really? He only had two friends. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't have the friends. You didn't have the friends. This is our phone. Hey, dude, I'm going to be here. Cool, see you later. Shut up. I'll bring my bike. You're so manly. You don't even talk. You're the top manly one. Yeah, you're right. I was on a three-way call. Yeah, dude, where are you watching right now? Oh, yeah. Really, dude? Oh, I got to blink it on. Justin used to beat people up for talking. You said words. Words are not manly. You're bully. No, we would do three-way calling. And you ever do this where you call a friend? You say, hey, don't say anything. And then you call the other guy. And then you say something so they say some shit that your friend goes, I'm on the line, bro. Oh, no. I told you. That's bad right there. That is some chick shit right there. So you set somebody up like that. No, we didn't do that. We would do something like, hey, do you think you can beat up so-and-so? Yeah, I think I could take them. They'd be like, I'm right here, bro. I can organize it in my house. Oh, you fucker. Start fights. Somebody tried to do that. All right, so the controversial stuff. What do you think about? Back in Neuralink. Oh, that's not that controversial. What do you mean it's that controversial? That's crazy. That's not going to get us canceled, but it is cool. Yeah, no, I mean controversial as far as like, should we do this or not do this? Not like we're going to be canceled for talking about it. They just got FDA approval for human trials, right? Human trials of this. So essentially, it's going to create an interface between the brain and computers or the internet. So you could think and search or think. So I heard one of the first features already is you'll be able to save memories and replay them. Oh, hell no. You didn't read that? No, because I know- Looked it up, Doug. They're targeting the paraplegic. Yes, yes, yes. So that's kind of like the entry point. Yeah, because, you know, that's something that, if you can solve that, it's huge. So here's my- And that's why I got FDA approved, is because that could be life changing. Exactly, right, right. And that, well, 100% I'm pro that, but obviously this is the slippery slope, right? Well, now, yeah, we've got to talk about all of the snowball. Think about how we manipulate people through social media. Now imagine it was connected directly to people's brains. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, so here's my thoughts on it. We're already entering into a weird time, and it's almost like, what's that old saying? If you can't beat them, join them. It's like, how are we going to potentially compete with AI or counter AI? Well, I guess we're going to have to combine with AI in order to do it because if we stay- We've got to become a cyborg. Because if we remain analog, we're screwed. That's kind of how I feel about it. It's like, well, I guess it's inevitable. I mean, what else are you going to do? Yeah. Like, you're going to have to like- I mean, if it's at that level, I mean, I think it's- Well, I'm just glad we're at our age where we're at, at a point in our lives where we've like, I can just check out. I'm cool. You got kids, dude. Our kids are going to be done with that. Well, that's the only part of my race right now is to make sure that he's set up. That's what you're saying. So he doesn't have to do it, too. The only thing is- The only thing is you're going to come home and you're going to talk to him and be like, oh, you're so slow and boring, dad. Or you know why I say like, what are you doing? Are you listening to me? Yeah, I'm checking my emails at the same time and I'm talking to my friend, but it's OK. I can process all this. Well, there's always a dark side to anything good like that, right? Like, it's- Huge. You're so much more vulnerable if you're one of those early adopters, especially. And like, people are going to try to find ways of hacking in and manipulating. And like, it just, to me, it's I want to maintain this autonomy, this like control of my own thoughts, my own minds. Like, it just scares the shit out of me. The argument is you'll have control over it. You'll have full control over it. Yeah, yeah. Here's what I see in more to your point. But you're feeding in the internet. You don't think you get manipulated by that? So I'm- let's move on. I'm more- I agree with that. It's more going to be like where I think Sal is going with this, is that here's what's going to happen is- Because they're just like we already see where people are like, you know, making these like eyeballs that they can see like a telescope and you have hearing that's like, you already have people that are hacking their bodies like this already. So there's definitely going to be fringe people that adopt this right away, right? That don't need it for whatever reason. Where this is going to get crazy is when that does give them an incredibly competitive edge. And then the others will have to force themselves to decide if you're, are you going to, are in order to compete? If you want to be a high performing CEO, you want to be a top surgeon. You want to be the best marketer or programmer. It's like in, and you're getting your ass kicked by the guy who's got the neural link and you have to decide if I want to compete for that job or be a part of this, I've got to have adopted or I'm going to- Imagine someone today- He's on cocaine. I got to get on cocaine right away. And no, imagine someone right now trying to build a business who refuses to be on the internet to use smartphone- That's right. To do any of that stuff. Yeah. And he's like, that's old, that's crazy. The internet's going to kill all of us. Oh, I'm going to be, I'm going to only do it this way. Yeah, good luck. Yeah. I mean, that's going to be really hard. You might be able to do something, but you ain't going to build a business. So that's the position that- That's how I feel. Now here's the scare. Here's the fear. Yeah, there'll be justifications for that. Here's the fear that people, I don't think a lot of people are talking about. Knowledge without wisdom is bad. Dangerous. Very dangerous. Lots of knowledge without like wisdom turns into some really nasty bad stuff. There's a reason why you acquire knowledge as you get older and not just get it all when you're a child because look what that ends up turning into. Look at a teenager. Teenagers have a lot of knowledge, oftentimes as much knowledge as an adult, but they have zero of the wisdom and how do teenagers behave, right? So that's going to be the fear. So all of a sudden I know everything, but I don't have any experience. I don't have any wisdom around it. Boy, that's going to, that'll be an interesting place. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, man. I guess I start probably the most, what not, what's the opposite of optimistic, right? That's a mistake. I'll see if you have the most passive mistake. You know, it's like. You know what though? Here's the barrier. They have to, they have to, you have to put it in your brain. That's going to prevent a lot of people from doing it. Nobody wants to put anything in their brain. Well, that's how I see this rolling out is exactly what I just said is not a lot of people are going to adopt that at first. In fact, people will be like, this is crazy, I'm going to do that. Just like someone probably wouldn't take their eyeball out and put a fucking thing in, right? But when you start getting out competed in your profession that you love, that you're really good at, because somebody has got a neural ink in, you will be faced with that decision point. Is that in three years, five years, 10 years or 20 years? That I don't know. If the brain, if they have to install something in your brain, I think it'll take a lot longer. What I think is going to happen is that's the first like iteration. Then they're going to figure out how to do it where you put on a hat, where you have something on the outside and you have to be invasive. Then everybody's going to adopt it. Because that's still a fear. Like really got to operate on my brain. I'd have to see a lot of people do it before I think it's safe. Yeah, because even like removing it, like what does that do if you're like neurologically adapted to it at that point and like all of a sudden you just pull it out. Oh, I don't know. What does that look like? Are you guys from the monkey studies? Bro, here's it. God, you know, you started thinking, like this thing's going to be able to record memories. I mean, and then let's say when your physical body shuts down and you just switch all your organs out and you add, you know what I'm saying? Well, that's what I mean. The transhumanism thing, this is what's all kind of leading that direction where it's like, what do we need our body for? You know, like let's just like be metal parts and then we can interstellar travel. You know what? Humans have speculated the challenges with living forever for a long time. Just look at the stories on vampires and how tormented they are in the stories. Like people know this. They know that living forever or not dying isn't necessarily the blessing that you think it might be, right? And inevitably, I mean, let's say you're a good person and you're just, you know, getting a lot of value and purpose for what you're doing. But now you've extended that infinitely. Tell me you're not going to go to the dark side at some point because you're bored. Yeah. You know, like it's just how it goes. I don't know. This is going to be, this is weird, dude. We're getting into a weird, a weird, weird space. Did you find what I was saying? Doug, about the memories? Yeah, they talk about it. I don't see anything definitive about it at this point. It's really for people who have like spinal cord injuries at this point or vision issues, I suppose. But I mean, eventually it's going to turn into, it's going to be a market, right? Where you can do all kinds of different things. Of course. And then the argument's going to be, why not enhance my body's natural abilities? Well, I mean, the original argument is like, you already have an appendage of your phone. When Elon Musk said that on Joe Rogan, it was like one of those moments for me when I'm like, you're kind of right. We've adapted with it. Like it's all you, how many people? It's already an extension of you. Yeah, exactly. It's already like in you for a lot of people. I mean, how often is your, I mean, our phones on every one of our hips probably right now. Now, I just feel like we've skipped steps. Like, can we just get like the contact lens first? You know? Well, there's a big push right now. Apple is making big moves right now, I think in AR. And so here's part of the argument is AR, AI, which one's going to take off sooner and faster. And the truth is AR is more likely to be adapted because of your point you're bringing. You put glasses on. Yeah, you just put some glasses on and now everything around you becomes, you know, like you're kind of in a virtual world, but you're still in the real world. So going back to something like Neuralink, understanding human behavior, can you imagine the products and uses that this will have for the average person who's impulsive and whatever? There's going to be pleasure button. I mean, you're just going to tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Oh, you know, I feel good now. Yeah. Oh, I'm sad. Pop, pop, pop. Oh, I feel better. Oh, I'm bored. Now I'm excited. Like you're just going to hit buttons and make the brain. You know, somebody commented on my Instagram in regards to my whole talk about Macs with the iPad and stuff because they've been raising their kid, utilizing it and their kid was reading at a much higher level and faster and like they had all these positive educational benefits. And I said, yeah, I'll pass. And I said, and the reason why I said that was because it's not, there's another side of the coin. It's not just that they're seeing what's happening to these kids, how it's disrupting the way they process their executive functioning, their anxiety, things like. So it's like, okay, great. Your kid reads at a five grades above, but he's anxious, he's depressed. His executive function is off. So it's like, those parents that have heard me talk about this and you know why I wanted to comment on this because I'm sure there's more parents that agree with this parent that comment, right? That this person just had. And by the way, I'm not picking on this person. So I'm not going to point them out or their name or anything. But it's like, I'm sure a lot of parents think because their kid is smarter because they're using this iPad, they read better or they're more knowledgeable with math or with that, that it's a positive thing. It's like, no dude, just because that is a, one of the side effects potentially is that, but there's a bunch of other negative effects that we're seeing that are coming out besides that I'm not okay with. And I'm more concerned about those that I mean, I could teach him to read at a higher level myself personally, I don't need to have an iPad do that with the risk that it comes with. Yeah, look, do you want a kid that does math real well but is anxious and irritable, who doesn't know how to build relationships with other people? Now I'm sure there's a way to use these tools to augment, you know, what you're doing, but you know, when I watched that talk from that one. There is, you said it. You interact with them and you use it as if it's a tool. So they're getting both. You don't put it in front of it and then leave it. Yeah, that one talk by that woman really blew me away cause she said their kids are learning in these artificial textbooks or computers and it's not contextualized in real life. So learning a lesson from a book even or a computer or a tablet versus learning a lesson in real life, which one is more valuable? And so what we've done is we're telling kids like, and so what you're doing is you're making these kids sit in front of this thing. By the way, kids who are on these things often don't know how to regulate their emotions as well because they distract themselves. That becomes their co-regulation tool. Okay, what does that mean? Take it away, it's no different than this. If you wore a weight belt all day long, your core stability would develop and rely on the support of a weight belt. Take it off, you'll have no core stability. Take that away and your child doesn't have its code regulating friend, which is the iPad and they don't learn how to, they don't know how to regulate it very well. Yeah, this is kind of a tragic story, but there was an incident where there was this kid where I live up in the valley who got into an altercation with another kid who was from a different school and he found out he was at a party up in the valley and he took the bus, he went up there with a gun and he came looking for him at this party with his gun and he pulls it out. And what I focused on was the first reaction from like everybody there, they all took their phone out and they're all like hiding behind their screens and their videotaping while the guy has a gun and he goes right up to the kid, he shoots him in the stomach and then he gets on his motorcycle and takes off. So they were in like, not junior high, but like, I think they're like freshmen, sophomore in high school, they were kids, kids. And it was like, yeah, okay. So now you get like footage of the thing. So it's like they're able to prosecute and all that, but like that's the first instinct. All of these kids at this party would just take their phone. Yeah, he has a visible gun, like anyways, it's tragic. It was a tragic story, but it was just like, very fascinating to me to see kind of like, this is a cultural thing. Oh man, that's weird. No, you're right. I mean, no different when like a fight or an altercation happens. I've seen him been in places like this where someone's getting an altercation on a bus or someone's getting into a restaurant or something like that. And instead of going in and diffusing it or stopping it, everybody's natural reaction is pull your phone out and record it. And it's like, what the fuck are we coming to right now? Like go there and stop that. It's wild to me, man. It's interesting. We had Arthur on the show and what do you say about like activism along those lines? He says. We have a, he's used a different word than massive problem with activism and people not going in. He says, if you want to do activism, that really not only works, but also makes you feel better is go help people versus being enraged, pissed off, recording, posting, that kind of stuff. Makes a lot of sense. Instead of like posting about how mad you are about the homeless problem. Yeah, physically get up and go help. And go help and make an impact. Makes such a, it's so weird. I never thought of it that way. Help one person help your local community. Like that's, you can have the base impact doing that over anything. I mean, that's one of Jordan Peterson's core messages. Clean your own room, right? Before you go and tell everybody else about what they're doing wrong with their life and how what a bad person they are, like clean your own shit, you know? Go make an impact, right? That's crazy. Anyway, I wanna tell you guys something else that's annoying. Are you guys as annoyed as I am about like going to buy like food or anything and you pay with your, at your phone or your credit card and they spin the screen around for a tip. Oh yeah, yeah. Isn't that funny? And I'm like, I'm looking at the dude like you rang me up. You didn't even juggle or anything. You didn't do anything. I bought something from here. Now it's all of a sudden, it's tipping culture. It has become this thing now. Tip me. Well, what's even more awkward about it? We used to have to do some shit. Well, what's more awkward about it is they won't make eye contact. Yeah. They spin it around and they look away or they like at Starbucks. Especially if they're not even friendly. They hand it to you like this. It's so, so weird. So weird. It's so weird, right? And it puts me in a weird position because I'm like, am I gonna be a dick for saying no because you rang up my bottle of water? And now I just paid seven dollars for the already overpriced water. Yeah, or are you being like weird just for wanting that or expecting it? What I find interesting, it's always like 15, 20, 25%. It's never like 5% or 10%. The minimum is 15. It's like 15%. I give somebody 20, 25% if they've waited on me all night. Right, if I'm at dinner. But you know, I got a coffee at Starbucks and you want 25%. You may as well build it into the price and just charge me that price. Now full disclosure, I say no most of the time but I do tip sometimes when the person is exceptional. I do too. And I have. So like there's this place we go to in Willow Glen. I'll give him a shout out. El Hall. I'm guilty for always too. I know, I tip a lot. So it's a great, this taco place is amazing. The guilt thing. And we go there and the kids that work there or whoever owns a place knows how to hire great kids because I'm gonna say something right now. Like when you see teenagers working at places these days, they typically are zombies and they suck. Suck. I just, I've been, Jessica and I talk about it. It's like, how do these kids get jobs? They're terrible. Anyway, this taco place, he's got these kids working there. They're so friendly. They're so good. Like they're great. So I always tip those kids over there. But if you suck, you don't even look at me. You ain't getting shit on me. You know how many kids that I've had like ring me up at like these places that I have AirPods in. I think that's fucking so rude. Yes, bro. How does the manager allow that? Like come on, like. If I wasn't, if I wasn't such a busy person, I'd be like fucking find me your boss so I could go talk to him right now. Slap him for refiring you like. What are you listening in there? It's unreal. And I've had some of them like, I'm trying to communicate with them and I don't realize they have them in there. Huh? Yeah. They're probably listening to our podcast. The worst service. Yeah, they're listening to my podcast. That would be hilarious. You know what? Hold on a second. Wait, I have to listen to my, oh, my pump. Oh, they're mine. Okay, okay, go ahead. You're fine. Come on, Chip. Have you, so some of the worst service, I don't know if this obviously these are franchises so I'm sure it's not true everywhere, but some of the worst kids that serve me are Chipotle. On, there's this one Chipotle we go to and I swear every time we go there, I'm like, these kids, they won't look at you. They don't look at each other. They're moving at like negative speed. Well, Chipotle, six people make your burrito. That's fucking serious. It's a six person line to get to your burrito. Really? That's where we're at now. I need six of you to make a burrito. Fucking crazy, dude. Machines are gonna take that job pretty quickly. Heavy handed Harry, dude. I always find that guy. Yeah. You got one with good service? It's only one though. It's like, I have to drive a little further. It's in Capitola, but yeah, the one that's closer, it's, well, mainly it was ruined because like, there used to be like a homeless encampment like right by and so, you know, as I'm coming in, there'd be a guy like eating stuff out of trash and like, you know, anyways, it was not great with the kids. Let's just say, yeah. Yeah, I think, I mean, McDonald's has already got the whole automated thing going. I mean, it's not huge yet, but I mean, it's happening. So I'm the first person, man, if you do a good job, I'm like, I'll go out of my way and let you know that your boss know, but God, that's so rare these days. Yeah. I was talking with my kids, starting to apply for a job, right? My oldest. And I'm just telling him, like, listen. What is he gonna do? Is he gonna work while he's in school? Both, yeah. And because now he's out, right? He just graduated. So what does a kid like that get at a school? Like, I know where he's going. So I'm trying to think of like, what's out there that he could do? What's he gonna do? Well, I'm gonna, he's already covered, right? His room and board is covered. That's from you guys. The school. How do you say what? And he gets an allowance as part of it where he has this card that gets so much food. Anything else is on him. So if he wants more food, wants to go out, do anything else, he's gotta get a job. So that's on him. Yeah, yeah. So what jobs he could get a job on campus or something nearby? Now, is there rules and stipulations to that? Or it's just like, as long as you're in school, this is what we're going to provide? Oh, yeah, yeah. You gotta get, you start getting shitty grades. You're gonna pay nothing for your- Okay. Yeah, dude. Okay, that's what I'm wondering. Come on, that's ridiculous. I understand that. Why would you pay for something? I mean, there's a lot of parents that do. There's parents that that's just the rules that like, as long as you're in school, your parents take care of your stuff. Oh, well it's not just, yeah, you gotta be in school and you gotta do, you know, you gotta look like you care and you're putting some effort in. Yeah. But what you pay for includes a certain allotment of food. Anything on top of that though, you know, you gotta work for yourself. And it's like, obviously I could pay for everything, but- No, of course. You know, he's gotta- There's a lot of- There's a certain sense of self-responsibility. I'm asking because obviously I'm a long ways from this, but I do think about it. And I think like, you know, would I pay for all of it? Would I pay for some of it? Like what would I, like, there's gotta be some value and actually not even paying for all of it, right? Like there's like some value and maybe even going like, hey listen, I'll pay for classes or a room and board, but food's on you. Yeah, it depends on you. You gotta learn to feed yourself. So it depends on the, okay, so a lot of colleges now if you pay for the dorm, you pay for the room and board, it includes, there's- I think that even- The cafeteria. Yeah, it includes it. That's what I had when I- So you can't say, I don't wanna pay that part. I think it's part of the package. Yeah. That's where he's going. Yeah. But for me, it depended on the degree. If it's a degree that's got market viability, then I'll cover it. If it's got no market value, then you pay it yourself. What did he choose? Did he choose- He always computer science. Oh yeah. And engineering. Although seems like those are the jobs that are gonna be gone with AI. I had this conversation. They'll learn about AI. They're gonna teach them AI in there. Well, he thinks you might wanna go in that direction. Yeah, they'll teach him that. Of learning how to work with AI. I'm definitely in that space right now of like, what's a good first job? Like I'm trying to think about that a lot with Ethan because it's like, when he's 13 and it's like he's already kind of thinking about like working at this like deli or like doing this or that or the other. So I'm like trying to see like where he goes with it. But I mean, you know, I'm like, I wanna get him to be a shadow to construction, learn how to build a house of every detail of it. Like from every trade, you know, just so at least he like can see like what it takes and learn all that stuff. But I mean, I don't know if he wants to do that. I mean, you went the waiter route, right? That's what you did, right? I think that's, I think both. Everybody should work in a restaurant somewhere. I started a house and then I worked to the waiter. I went the agriculture way, right? So I went to a farm, that's what I did, right? So I mean, I think both have tremendous value. They do, but I do people skills and yeah, and being able to have more of that conversation. Yeah, I helped a lot. I think working in retail or working in a restaurant is important. Like go get a job at Starbucks or somewhere where you have to like appreciate service people. Yes, and not only that, you appreciate them. You understand what it's like. You have to work with different people. You got to deal with assholes. You got to deal with nice people. Dude. It's society, right? It's incredible to me like how people behave like towards waiters and service. Yeah. Like it's like, I guess I was baffled. I didn't know that because I was just like a, you know, patron for ever I go in and I'm just eating. I'm just like, thanks, I'm not a dick. There's a lot of assholes like that just come in and just like throw things at you like talk shitty the whole time. You're like just trying to help them. Like, dude, who are you? Well, it's just like a, it's a number singer. I think any profession where you have to see a high volume of people per day. If you're going to see a high percentage wise, there's more assholes out there than there are friendly people. So if you see 30 people in a day or more, there's a good chance you're going to have to deal with some people. You know, I was jaded for a while. I had to get blood work done this morning and I actually drove way out of my way to go to this specific lab court. We've had to do our blood so many times. I was like a 13th time or whatever I had to do my blood. So I now go to this one place because I like the guy. I like the way he talks to me because they bust so many people through there. I mean, they must see a hundred patients in a day. And I've been to so many of them and most of the people are rude. They stab me. I get bruised. Like they don't talk to me. Like just a terrible experience like to do that. And so I actually drive all of them out of my way to go to this one place because the same guy that's there. And I was telling Katrina because Katrina was with me this morning. He's soothing. I know how you get kind of dizzy. We'll take your arm a little bit first. He talks to me so it helps keep my mind off of it. So I do like that. You don't say because I don't do good. He gives you a feeling. He gives you a lollipop and a sticker. He's a good boy on the way out. Little ginger snap. So here's a great example though, right? So normally when I see him it's actually during the slower times I was there in the morning which seems to be when everybody wants to get their blood drawn. And so I'm in there and there must have been five other patients and at least three of the five didn't know how to check themselves in. One old lady was so lost and confused. I was kind of helping her. And he's like running the desk and he's doing the blood work for everybody back and forth. And then Katrina asked him to do special things with me. Oh, could you send it over here and do things that they don't want me to do? And the guy was just like calm about all of it. That's cool. And I told him when I got back there, I said, man, I said, just so you know I said, come all the way over here for you because I do this a lot. And I think that, and I get it because you guys got to deal with a lot of people, you know that don't know what they're doing, that are rude and stuff like that. And for it to not affect you, I said that I appreciate that, you know. Do they have to switch the arm cuff for the blood pressure to the OB? It's too big. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Isn't that a great feeling? I always feel good about that. I don't even tell them. I don't even tell them. I let them find out. I'm gonna try that one. Oh, weird. Doesn't work. Go get the one tight, tight, tight, tight. Go get the super extra large one. The one that's at the end of it. Get the one they put on thighs. There you go. Oh, that fits nice. Yeah. I know. Hey, I just read a list today. That's kind of interesting. The drunkest cities in America. Ooh, let's guess. Oh, well, hold on, hold on, hold on. Chicago. Yeah, I would definitely. Well, hold on, because this is what's interesting about it. 10, seven out of 10 of them. Seven out of 10 of them from the same state. Yeah, I know. You know why, though, that's Florida. No, it's New York, because the city doesn't sleep, right? They're up all night. No, no. OK, so first off. Vegas, Daytona. What? OK, hold on, hold on. So drunkenness per city. Let me tell you how they measured it, right? Yeah, OK. So drunkenness per city was measured by the percent of the population that either binged drinks or drinks heavily throughout the week. So four to five drinks in a sitting. Or 15 or more drinks per week. So literally. Seattle. The most drunk place. So most popular college city, towns. Because during the week drinking is college kids. I'm going to tell you right now. Just forget the cities. Are we talking about? I don't know. Hallux? Or are we talking about college kids? The state. Seven out of ten of them was the same state. Wisconsin. Holy shit. Wisconsin. Why would you say Wisconsin? Wait, did I send you the link? Milwaukee. No, he didn't. Yeah, I'm just thinking. Doug, no, I didn't. Where they make beer, you know? Always do good with these things. Honestly. Why would you guess? That's why you would guess Wisconsin. Plus it's cold, you know? I mean, I don't know. That was a good while. I would guess 20 times. He hit it on the nail on the head. Wow. First of all, Wisconsin is seven out of these. Madison. Seven out of the top ten are. But all of them are cold ass places. Yes, cold. Yeah. Milwaukee. Yes, that. People are, say, Montana, North Dakota. Really? Yeah. But Wisconsin, man, they cry. Boy, I would have failed that test. They crush beers. Appleton. Number one, Oshkosh, Nina. All places I don't even know. Green Bay, Madison. And then you have Fargo, North Dakota. But then back to Wisconsin. La Crosse on Alaska, Fond du Lac. There's a lot of French sounding places out there. Euclair, yeah, all Wisconsin. I would have failed. I would have went to Miami, New York, Las Vegas. Yeah, I was just thinking like everywhere we've been for spring break and, you know. I would have never thought Wisconsin. I don't know. They're what a good guess. Big ass drinking place. It is. It is. I mean, I've been up there a few times. Well, I just know that like BMI is higher in those states as well. That's true. Because it's cold and, you know, you're indoors. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I mean, if we were guessing like eating fried food or something like that, I might. Go that direction. Yeah, but I know where you're going. I know where you're going. Like more impulsive behaviors to deal with the cold, the depression. Somebody please send me some cheese curds from Wisconsin. You know, cheese curds are only good. They're only good with them. Like you have to eat them in a day, right? They don't last very well. That's true. Have you ever had cheese curds? They're so good. You know what's weird about them? They squeak. Yeah, you chew it. Isn't that weird? Yeah. Like you actually, they squeak a little bit. Because there's an air pocket in there. I don't know why. Yeah, that's why there's air pocket. Because they're alive. I think it's a texture. They're alive. No, they squeak. Isn't that weird? I know that. I think we have Viori today. Is Viori today? Yeah, Viori's today. And I see you're wearing Viori and you're wearing state and liberty. But yeah, I'm Viori pants. Oh, OK. I'm half. So what's your, now have you done the state and liberty t-shirt yet? I wore that one yesterday. You did? I did. OK, so let's get. I like it. I love it. I like it. Do you like one or not? No, OK. I feel like you like the state and liberty more. So hold on. So hold on. OK, we can be honest on it. No, I'm going to be honest. Because I like state and liberties. State and liberties, they're suits and they're really, they're good formal wear that crushes. Yeah. Athleisure wear, stuff like this. I don't know what Viori the hell material they use, but it's like so soft. Workouts versus just like walking around. Yeah. So I walk around and then work out and that. Like that would be my jam. Viori athleisure wear, they say there's nobody touches them. But, but dude, this, I mean, this is like, I have only shirts that's actually like, it made me feel like less of a fat ass. I haven't, I haven't. Not, not, not a fan. Not like full fat. I haven't wore a state and liberty t-shirt. I have all their dress stuff. Yeah. And I have a bunch of Viori t-shirts. They're dress stuff crushes. But yeah, Viori, I mean, like, like, if you touch, I just, even Jessica said it. She just touches it. She's like, they have the best feeling material. That's true. No, no, their stuff is fire. They kill it. Yeah, I know everything. They, I actually like, I wish I'm so bad. They, I know they sent us boxes and I like this. You know, originally I liked the idea of like, it's always picking our boxes, but instead they want to like send us stuff to try or they have new things coming out. And they sent me some things that I probably wouldn't have bought and I really liked it. Did they put it on? You like it? I did. And the colors too, they chose. Like, I wouldn't wear those normally. I was like, oh, that looks good. Me too. Just as like your salmon. Like, it's been just. Yeah, they gave me like this light teal shorts, these shorts, they had the black spandex underneath. And then they're real loose and they, and they were like this kind of teal color. Yeah, maybe Doug, you can look up what the style is because that's a terrible commercial. I don't have to be able to tell people with the name. I'm not good with the names. I showed off your knees. Huh? Were your knees exposed? Yeah, yeah. Ponto or core. Isn't that funny how that. Oh, by the way, speaking of that, why Doug's looking the shorts up, I have noticed that what's making a comeback is baggy jeans. Yeah. But oh, I was just going to, I was just going to bring it up. Baggy jeans are like. Janko. Yeah. Well, not that. Not quite, but getting there. Yeah. We're, I mean, like, look at over like my shoes. Yep. Like we're ready for hacky sack. Bro, I was driving home the other day with my daughter and these in high school was out and these kids were walking by and it's mostly with the girls for so far. No, I'll show you. I'm like, you could pick out. I said this, I feel like I'm in high school right now. They're dressed almost identical to how we used to dress. Dylan, what's the name of the full circle? What's the name of the influencer kid? He's got black hair, alphalete. He's a Christian Guzman. Pull up his Instagram. I just, what did you say? I said, thanks Dylan. They still, they still have the inspiration. They're, they're, they're neural link to each other. Do you guys know that? Go to Doug, did you already find my, my shorts? So I'm looking, I'm looking at the Fullerton shorts. Can you pull them up so I can see? They, but they don't have teal. What was it teal you said? Well, like a teal, like a light, real light, light blue look. They're the only ones I see, though, it has the like the black spandex underneath. Oh, I hope I didn't talk about something that's not out yet. Oh, maybe you did. I want you to pull that up and then I want you to pull up. Tell me if this is a style here. Oh, I like those. No, those aren't them, but I do. Okay, let me see if I can find some more. Those are the Fullerton ones. I do like those too, though. I'll get back, back to you on that. Okay, well, I'm going to make you do something else. Teals. I think those are there. I got a teal pair. Go down, go down, down to the left. Yeah. Yeah. The one on the very left is when I got. That's the core, the core shorts. Oh, those are the core shorts. Yeah, they have a liner. They don't have the spandex. Oh, it's a liner. It's not like a spandex. Okay, you're right. You're right. So it's the core shorts. Yeah, I like the core shorts. I like the core shorts too a lot. Okay, so now go to, uh, I want the guys to see this. You can just send them the link and pull it up. I have what I'm trying to do that, see if I can. I don't know. While you're doing that, I'm going to, I'm going to just, and we'll get back to that, I promise, Adam. Not trying to hijack you, but here we go. You want to hear some interest, something crazy? Did you know? Okay, so how many people have walked the moon? Do you guys know? How many people? Let's just say it's like 12. Some would say none. 12, right? You're wrong. It was fake. No, 12 people have walked the moon. What? Do you know how many people? How many people? Yeah, you're right. You know how many people have visited the Mariana's trench? What's that? One, three, oh, what is that? We know less about the deepest parts of the ocean than we do the moon. Dude, I know. It's one of the deepest parts in the ocean. Oh, well, we've known that. We've talked about that. It's not weird. There's like, there's species that we still have, that are undiscovered down there, right? Yeah, no, there's, it's crazy. Isn't that wild? It is wild. Three people have been down there. Well, bro, wouldn't you? God, that sounds, well, I guess it's just as scary to be probably up on a moon, too. I'd rather go on the moon. Oh, so really speaking of the moon. So I was actually like talking to my friends and I'm like, I know I read this and it was, it was valid. It wasn't like pure conspiracy theory, but like my friends just roll their eyes, you know, immediately because I was talking about that they actually like launched rockets onto the moon to have them explode and it caused a ring. So it was like a vibrating ring, had like moonquakes that creates this like, almost a ring noise, like almost like it's hollow. Read it, it's popular science, wrote an article about it. Oh, they were trying to test the density of it? Yeah, the density of it. Just go to his home, like that video. But this is where the hollow moon and all that kind of stuff. You get the conspiracy people around that. I was just like, dude, that tripped me out that it like rang. That there's a moon base or something. Scroll down, scroll down. Exactly, like it's the Death Star. Look at the pages out of all those. Come on, scroll down, scroll down, it's right there. Right, right there. See it? Yeah, see his pants? Oh yeah, right in the middle. Yeah, both those. And I had just seen it on somebody else and I'm like, son of a bitch. Damn it, I don't think I threw mine away. I'll go pull them out. Are they sagging them too or is it just bagging? No, he's not sagging them. They're just back to kind of a baggy loose fit. Look at the bottoms. The bottoms are covering half of his sneaker like me when we were kids. If I start seeing... You know, what's funny is like, so he's young, right? So he's like, I don't know what Guzman's like. He's probably 30. Dylan, you know how old he is? Oh, you know what, dude? It's still in the silver guy. There's a lot of pressure when you're sitting in that chair, dude. You have to know everything. You've got to have the facts. If I start seeing people wear those with the shell top Adidas or whatever. 30. He's 30 years old, right? Yeah, so he's a youngster, right? So we got 12 years old. So he doesn't remember wearing that in high school. Just like that picture of him because he wasn't in high school when those were in style. I know, that's what I'm saying. Like I have pictures of me in a ball cap like that, a shirt like that, in pants like that, like when I was like freshman, sophomore, you're high school. You know what else is... Well, this has already been back for a while. Do you remember those shoes? I don't know what they... What do they call? Penny. I don't remember the call, girls wear them. And they were like round toe, black shoes with the strap that comes over. Do you remember those shoes? That girls wear them all the time now, again, young girls. So my daughter went to the store she wanted to buy a pair. I'm like, holy cow, that's what you... Describe them to me again. They're like black, but the front is round. They're leather and they'll just have like one strap over. And it looks like a, almost like a baby doll shoe or something like that. Did you guys... Was it cold? I don't know. Penny something. Not penny loafers, are they? No, I'm tripping. Did you guys see the... Did I show you guys the cartoon boots that were... Yes, the red ones. That when I was at the... I meant to tell you guys. I didn't tell you this. So stupid. Which by the way, I think it's also really funny to me. So one of the most common things that you see when you go to one of these games, like the Warriors game, and this is all sports. I actually see this at all events. There's always like a lot of people that have seats that are like, you know, maybe they got like the top of the lower level of that. And then they walk, because they'll let you, before the game, they'll let you walk all the way down by court seat and they take all their photos. And this guy, I'm sitting down in my seats and he's came all the way down and he's standing next to me. And he's got like one of the ushers like taking photos of him like posing all cool, like he's courtside. And he's got those fucking red shoes on. Stupid. Yes, he's got those red shoes on. What do they look like? Is it like Papa Smurf? Like shoes or what? Yes, they're this big, they're massive, like this and they're red. You haven't seen these? No. You know what they look like? What's that guy, that video game where the guy blasts people in the pan? No, it's Mega Man. It looks like Mega Man shoes. No, no, no, it's based off a cartoon guy. I forget the name. I'll show you. Hey, these are the shoes I was talking about. They're called Mary Janes. Do you remember these? No. You don't remember these shoes when we were kids? Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's what we call them. Astro Boy. Astro, that's what it was. Astro Boy. It's Astro Boy's shoes. Look, Doug, pull up Astro Boy's shoes so Justin can see these things. And this is like a popular thing. It is a thing that these kids wear. Now I thought they were going to be how expensive. That's so ridiculous. You see them? Yeah, I can see it on Doug's screen. Do you got one of the kid wearing them? Yeah, I saw somebody wear these. You've seen it too. I've seen it too. They're hilarious. Stupid. Maybe we should buy some more. Those are Gargamel shoes. What are we talking about? They do look like Gargamel shoes too. They are Gargamel shoes. I mean, they're based off the Astro Boy. That's what they're named Astro Boy shoes, right? So they're based off of that cartoon character. But you're right, Gargamel had the same style. Why don't we just buy them? Us three? Bro, they're so ridiculous. Now I thought they were some crazy high fashion like thing where they're expensive and they're not expensive. They're just stupid. You know what would suck if you're wearing them? But I've seen people do it. Those big ass shoes and then an emergency happens, you have to run. Oh! You fall down. I saw Antonio Brown wearing them at a game. He was like the first person I saw wearing them. And then I've seen other people. Do you guys remember that episode of Saved by the Bell where they were talking about how fashion and style start? And they were talking about, I think it was Kelly. And they said, you could wear a pizza on your head and then everybody in the school and she did. Oh, she did. And everybody started wearing pizza on their head to make fun of. That's what it reminds me of. Like just because someone popular and famous wears something stupid and everybody thinks it's cool. I mean, you don't even have to be famous. If you're in high school, you can influence like that. I mean, I told you guys that with the PG&E jacket. I got the first time I wore that. I remember everyone was like, what the fuck? And they were like, the next year I came to school and like 30 kids were rocking the PG&E jacket. Nobody wore that. Yeah, it was with what do you call those repairmen for like air conditioners. It was like this cool like a work shirt. And it was just like, and so all of a sudden everybody started wearing work shirts. And then that came to me. So the way this happened is I didn't have a waterproof jacket. Yeah, you were poor. My dad worked for PG&E. He was part of it. And he had that. I went to the bargain bar. And really it was like this. This is the type of kid that I was. I was like, ah, fuck it. I don't care. You know what I'm saying? Like that's my attitude was like, I don't care. Like I'll wear whatever. Like I was confident like that. And it was raining. And I'm like, it was a waterproof fucking jacket. So I put it on and I wore it to school. I'm not going to toot my own horn, but people wearing wife beaters are. I'm not saying it's the hands. When I saw it at the gym, the kid in our Facebook group, he called it or I reposted it on Instagram. Muscle tees. That's I'm like, oh, is this a rebrand? This is a rebrand. This is political. Hey, bro, those are wife beaters, dude. We try to rebrand. By the way, we don't think you should beat your wife. It's just what I know. Yeah, I don't do that. Just what the shirt was trying to rebrand it for muscle tees. Yeah, sounds, sounds offensive. Sounds better. Hey, we got a shout out for today. I got, I have a book for you guys. So I already shouted out the founder podcast, correct? So, uh, I, I just started, so I'm only like, I don't know, maybe a quarter or even less, because it's actually a really big book. The, um, something tycoon. Is it the original? The first tycoon, the first tycoon. It's talking about the Vanderbilt. Yeah. Oh, you talked about this. Yeah. Very cool. Uh, really, really interesting story. Um, and already it's got me enthralled by the book. So I mean, I haven't finished it, but it's, it's worth a read for sure. I'm on this kick right now. I was telling you guys off air or tell them Doug that I'm going to go through and like read a lot of these autobiographies on all these big founders and stuff like that. See what they have in common. Yeah. Report back. Look, research suggests that CBD may be useful for anxiety, pain, sleep, epilepsy, hormonal imbalances, inflammation, neurological disorders, bacteria, and much more. Here's the problem. Most CBD products in the market are garbage. Uh, there's a company called Ned that makes a CBD based hemp oil products with all the cannabinoids of hemp, but it's also tested third party. So it's legit. And by the way, this is the only CBD product I've ever taken that I could feel. That's how effective and awesome and strong Ned is. By the way, they have a blend that just came out. It's a brain blend to help improve cognitive function, euphoric feelings and innovation. Anyway, go check them out. Go to hello Ned.com. That's H E L L O N E D dot com forward slash mine pump. Use the code mine pump and get 15% off. All right. Here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Joe from New Jersey. Joe, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey, good day, guys. How are you? How's everybody doing today? Doing pretty good. Good. Good. What's going on? Great. Uh, well, it's a, let me just say it's a great opportunity to be with you guys. Uh, probably been listening to your podcast. Uh, I want to say two years now. Um, so I just want to thank everybody for the opportunity to be able to speak with you and, um, really, really appreciate everything you do. And really, uh, go to look forward to hear what you've got to say about my issue. So my, um, my, uh, question is, um, what, you know, I was just recently diagnosed with a right hip label pair. So, um, and the question is, what do I do or how do I train with it? But a little background about it, um, probably I want to say about a year and a half ago, I started noticing pain in my hip. Um, really from prolonged walking, uh, probably on really noticed it on hikes with my son while we was doing Boy Scouts. Uh, you know, probably like a three mile hike. I really feel it in my hip, but I really thought it was attributed to back pain. Um, and, uh, so while doing, actually while doing performance, I think it's called the Cossack squats. Um, I realized as I was standing, as I was stepping laterally, I really felt some severe tightness in my, in my adductor muscles. So, but then shortly after that, I started feeling more pain in, in my squats, dead lifts, so have you. So I went to get an MRI, they confirmed there was a label pair. So, um, really what I like to know is, you know, what, what should I be doing with a label care? I mean, are there exercises I should be doing or not? Yeah. So, okay. So, um, I'll give you some general advice because, you know, I've worked with quite a few people with this issue and no two are the same. You, you know, some people can do some lateral movements or abduction. Other people find it with abduction. So for people who don't know this basically is what holds the hip, uh, socket together, right? It's what keeps the femur in the hip socket. And so you've kind of lost stability essentially is what's going on here. So the best general advice I could give you would be to utilize isometrics. Isometrics would be an excellent, because you're not moving. So you're not going to, uh, put yourself at risk for adding resistance with movement, but isometrics are amazing for working on stability. And what you do is you use different positions of isometrics so that you do build strength throughout the full range of motion. So what I would do is, for example, let's say you want to build some lateral stability, well, rather than doing lateral movement, I would place my leg up against something that's immovable. And then I would apply an isometric against that laterally and work on that, hold that for 10, 15 seconds, and then relax and do sets of that. And then if that, once you get strong doing that, move the leg out a little more and you want to work with, you know, this is just good general advice. Work within your boundaries. So move to the part where, oh, if I go a little further, I'm going to start to hurt, strengthen there. And then what you'll find is that limit tends to move out as you continue to work through this progress. So a hip bridge is a great way to work on stability, right? Holding a squat in a comfortable position would be one way to do it. A abduction or adduction with isometric would be one way to do it, right? Uh, a hip flexor exercise or movement where you're doing an isometric with your hip flexor is another way to do it. And so you want to work on isometrics to build that stability. And then again, you can change the angle of the isometric, uh, as you get strong in particular movements and again, work within those limits. Yeah, I would, I mean, I would think 99, but there's probably ways that you'd have to maybe elevate, uh, to, to decrease some of the intensity of a, um, you know, a position like that, but, uh, to kind of work your way towards that, there's ways of like regressing some of those kinds of movements and that's in like our prime pro, uh, program. There's, there's lots of isometric options in there, uh, to address the hips and then all its versatility. So yeah, you just got to go real slow, body weight and intense your body and get that connectivity with the muscles again. And then eventually too, you could even move on to band holds where you, you know, have resistance there and you're, you're fighting. It's pull away. So like a band distraction, kind of a, uh, you know, type of an exercise. So you can build strength that way progressively, uh, and not go too fast. Joe, let me give you an example, Joe. So, um, let's say you want to strengthen, uh, stabilization from the abductors, right? The muscles that pull your legs apart. Okay. You can lay on the floor, feet, your knees bent with your, with your feet flat on the floor, put a strap around your knees and allow your legs to separate. It's called a clamshell, right? So your knees come apart to the point before it starts to hurt. So get to the point where like, Oh, if I go out any further, that's going to start to hurt. Get the strap, put it around your legs so you can't go out any further. And then press against the strap, not a band, a strap, press out against it. Really hard with good technique, good control for 10, 15 seconds. Do sets of that. That would be an example of an isometric to help build stability, um, in abduction. You can do the same thing with adduction, bringing the knees together. You do the same thing with a hip bridge, like I said before. So just work on stabilizing all around the joint with isometric. You could do that in the way we're sitting right now. So the way we're sitting right now with our, our leg crossed is I could, I could move your knee to that end range where you start to feel it. And then like Sal saying, and then I could just use my other hand to drive against it by, by pushing out. And then the opposite by pushing in from that same exact position and just as intense as you can and, and keeping in that position in an isometric hold for like five to 10 seconds. But you don't want to move, right? You want to use the isometric because here's why. You're finding a position that doesn't hurt. And you want to strengthen within that because with, with, when you're looking at like a labor of terrors are quite common in the hip. You see this quite often in athletes. You definitely see this in people as they get older. And the challenge with them is as you move through a full range of motion with resistance, if a muscle is tight or if there's a lack of stability in a particular area, like that joint's going to want to separate and that's where you're going to find pain. But if I find a place where I feel safe and I could just apply resistance or a contraction, so I'm not moving. I already know I'm stable in that position. So the risk of injury is way low, but I'm still strengthening. And then isometrics, you strengthen the position you're in, and then you go about 20 degrees outside of it. That's where the strength carries. So if I'm pressing out against that strap, I'm going to get strong in that position, but I'm also going to get 20 degrees outside of it and 20 degrees inside of it. And so what I do is I just move and do isometrics through that range of motion to strengthen the entire range of motion. But again, what you'll find is you'll be able to challenge that, that end range more and more as you feel more stable. I would map symmetry is the program I would give you. And you can kind of customize it for some of the movements that we're talking specifically about for the isometric portion. And then I would also put a little tweakly. So if I was, if you was able to pain free, do a lunge with you or a step up, I would add stability component always in that. So here's an example of where like maybe in the past, you've heard trainers mock, like, oh, all this, like, you know, step up to balance or lunge to balance. But for you, it makes a lot of sense to do that. So if I would do a lunge or a walking lunge with you, I wouldn't just do a traditional walking lunge. I would create a stability component at the top of the lunge every single time. Same thing with the step up. I wouldn't just step up on a box. I would step up to a, to stabilize. Yeah, no, no, here's the, here's the place out. Here's where I'm going to, I'm going to warn you a little bit. Okay, is, uh, you, you, depending on how bad this is for you, get really good at the isometrics before you do anything full range of motion with stability. I was going to say stay in phase one. If you do symmetry, you stay there, you know, an extended amount of time if you still need that for the lower body. Yeah. If you don't feel like it's, you know, really holding strong and stabilizing, you got to make sure it's being free, right? I think that's really the component where you move on to the actual movement portion. Yes. Cause what'll happen if you don't is if you're strengthening and you feel a little bit of pain, you're actually encouraging instability for yourself. So, so I would, I would master the isometrics in different positions to the point where you feel really good. And then I'd move to like smaller ranges of motion or to small ranges of motion, larger ranges of motion and so on until you can do like full range of motion. But basically what we're asking your body to do is to create the joint stability that you had before with muscle. So we don't have the, you've got a tear in your hip and you're a laboral tear, so you're losing stability there. So you got to build it with the muscle. Once you build it with the muscle, then you're, you're going to do well. I got to say, it's really funny to hear you say this because when I was doing single leg deadlifts, cause I hear you guys talking about it, you know, you want to make it a little more difficult to do some single legs and like, let me give it a try. So my left leg, no problem up and down my right leg. I am all over the place. And of course that's a bad hit, you know, so I was, I was a mess. So it totally makes sense. No, you're somebody that I would go isometrics, then I'd go short ranges of motion, uh, like hip bridges. And then when you do like a deadlift, I would go bilateral and I would not go unilateral until you feel really comfortable because it's too much. You're going to be asking your body to do too much. Oh, I don't know if I necessarily agree with that part. I would actually, I would have you do single leg next to a squat rack and use it for, to assist you with the stability. You got to really be in a good position because that capsule. You don't, you don't need to be loaded. You don't need to be loaded just your body weight. Sure, short range of motion. Yeah. And you can control the range of motion and you can inch further and you're adding just a little bit of a stability component and your safety of your hand is on that, on that. My point with this is Joe's that you're, you're, this is a, because that terror isn't going to come back. It's not going to heal. Right. Unless you get surgery, it's not going anywhere. So you've got to be really, really, really careful about bringing up, about building tremendous stability, um, with just the muscles before you do anything that challenges stability, a little too much. Otherwise it's just going to hurt. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I, I appreciate that. And that, that's, that's all great advice. And yeah, I think I'll do that. And I have symmetry. So of course it's been sitting in my back pocket for quite some time as I'm going through all the other programs. So what you do, Joe, with symmetry is do the lower body, uh, isometric stuff for much longer. You can progress with the upper body to the program throughout the program, but keep doing the isometrics for the lower body until you feel ready to start to move to, to regular exercise. All right. Great. Cool. All right. I appreciate that. And, uh, listen, I, I just want to thank you guys. Um, you know, I, I, um, it'd be a personal trainer a long time ago. And, you know, when I discovered your podcast from a work colleague, uh, he, uh, he turned me on to you guys and ever since I'm hooked in, you know, so it was, it's always one of the things where I hear you guys preaching what, you know, you know, your craft and everything else. And, you know, it's everything I learned 30 years ago and you guys talk about it. It's, it's, uh, there's something else. So keep doing what you're doing. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Appreciate that. Thank you. Thanks guys. Yeah. Have you guys ever worked with like, I'm sure you have. I've had several and it really, and your point at the beginning is important because it, if you have like just a minor tear versus a, like a major tear, it makes a big difference. I, like, I've never, I've done probably like a dozen and they're never the same. And also how strong they are in the hips with going into it. It's just like, I remember when I tore my MCL and the doctor was like, I remember like going like, man, I doesn't feel like I tore anything in the, and they explained it's cause you have so much muscle around your knee because you've done such a good job of training your legs that even though you lost this, this ligament completely, you don't need it. And then you don't feel like you're missing anything. I have a resected, like I don't have an AC joint on my left side, essentially. Um, and my left shoulder is 95% of what it was. It'll never be a hundred percent because that joint's gone, but because I've strengthened the support system, I'm like, I'm a lot, I'm almost there. And, you know, this reminds me of, you ever worked with someone who's had a dislocated shoulder several times and that shoulder capsule is just like, you got to stabilize the shit out of their shoulder. Everything's slow and packed and like muscle tension. That's, that's the recipe. Totally. Our next caller is Allie from North Carolina. Hi, Allie. How can we help you? Hi guys. Thanks for taking my call. You got it. All right. All right. I'll jump into it. Um, summer is about to start and I am in the middle of symmetry. As soon as this ends, I was planning on doing maps anywhere because we'll be traveling a lot. I'm running the kids to camp all the time and I might get to the gym once or twice a week. So, um, I was going to do maps anywhere, but then this week you guys just launched bands. And so my question is, should I still do maps anywhere or should I do bands? Um, I don't want to work out seven days a week and I know you said on the podcast bands is for seven days. So I wanted your opinion. Yeah, you got the answer. Yep. Maps anywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, bands is, bands is a seven day a week program and it's set up to be that way, uh, anywhere is, uh, I mean, anywhere, you could scale up the intensity to you with, with anywhere because we have intensity. Yeah. We have ways of increasing the intensity on the three four, yeah, intensifier. So, um, anywhere would be perfect for you. Absolutely perfect. You know, that program during the lockdowns absolutely crushed and we got so many messages from people who did not expect to get the results they got with the program that doesn't use much equipment at all. They thought it was like a maintenance program. Yeah. Yeah. Actually people actually received quite a bit of muscle gain from it. Yeah. So that's, that's the program that you need to do. Definitely. Great. When symmetry is my first program I'm doing, um, after bands anywhere, what, um, when I can get back to the gym, what would you say you go to next? Yeah. Bollocks. Maps and a bollock. Yep. Totally. Yeah. 100%. So the first program you ever got from us was symmetry. Yeah. Good choice. Oh, yeah. And honestly today I'm starting my first reverse and I've known for years I needed to, but, um, this is all kind of just started this. So I'm glad to hear that I'll still make gains using. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, Ali, Ali, you've never done a reverse diet before? No, no, I've always tried to cut all the time. How long have you been working out for? 20 years. Oh, you're about to have your entire world life changing. But I'm like, I'm a binger. So I can, I can cut, cut, cut, and then I bench and then constantly. Um, so then I, I've been doing, I was doing intermittent fasting and I heard on one of your shows like the logic that it can work for some people, but if you're a binger, how bad it is. Yeah. And so I've stopped that and then I finally, I've been working out with trainers and all that. And so I finally decided to just stick with the program. So then I started symmetry and I thought, if I'm going to do this in my head, I know I need to reverse. Love it. Yeah. I'm doing it. Love it. Ali, I'm going to say your mindset is perfect. I'm going to send you the intuitive nutrition guide as well, because that's going to help you with some of your mindset around nutrition. Okay. I def, I track when I'm, when I'm on, I'm on. And so, um, yeah, you're doing the whole on the wagon, off the wagon thing. So this will help you quite a bit. So read it, use some of the, uh, the, the mindfulness tools in there. It'll really help you. And if you do a good reverse diet with one of our programs, literally your mind is about to get blown. You're about to be like, what the heck? I did not know my body would respond this focus on getting strong. That's the main. I'm excited. I'm excited. Thanks. Oh, look, Doug, put that up there too. Well, you know what? We also have a reverse diet guide. Who are you following for a reverse diet? Do you have it all set up for yourself? Yeah, I'm avatar nutrition. Oh, okay. They're all right. We'll, we'll send you our reverse guide too. So you have something writing. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. Thanks for calling in. Awesome. Thanks y'all. Have a good one. You too. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Who's, who's avatar? Avatar nutrition. Yeah. Who's that? It's, uh, God, I'm familiar. Are we doing this for blue aliens? Mark Springer. I think if you pull up their logo, we might recognize it. I know the name. Maybe I'm doing what Justin said. Maybe I'm just thinking the movie. Yeah, I've heard of that before. Yeah. Oh, Lane is a co-founder. There you go. I knew it was somebody we knew. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. He was one of the things he founded it. And I think he sold. Yeah, that was in 2017. So he's that's what he sold. Remember he got out of it and then he went to go do something else. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they're legit. If Lane founded them, they got, then they know what they're doing. So our next caller is Ron from Florida. Ron, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey, what's up guys? I'm happy to be here. It's it's truly an honor. You guys provide amazing content. Thanks, brother. Thanks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So just a little background. I'll jump right into my question here. Point nine been lifting for about 10 years or so. I put on a decent amount of muscle what I consider. And now I mean, I've run anabolic twice. I ran anabolic advance, which was amazing. And I'm running in a ball for the second time now. And I'm just curious at what point should if you're trying to cut. So I'm at about 14 percent body fat would like to get down to 10 percent. You know, at what point should you introduce cardio? How much should you do? You know, are you should you do more HIIT training or steady state cardio? Kind of my question revolves around I understand y'all's the I guess I understand the muscle building burning metabolism or burning fat, you know, high metabolism or muscle you have. I understand that. But at what point do you start to cut and kind of, you know, start to bring your calories down? If you look at never do cardio to cut. Now, that doesn't mean don't do cardio, do cardio for the health benefits. But if you want to cut, that comes from diet. People who use cardio to cut are not using it or not. It's not effective. Even people who compete on stage ideally you use it at the very end because your calories are already so low and you're so depleted and you're just trying to squeeze off just a bit more body fat. But where's your calorie intake right now? It's about 2,500. OK, and you're 1,67. Is that right? Yeah, you have any idea how many steps you take a day? I just I just got a fitness tracker, maybe about a couple weeks ago. It's sitting right around 8000 steps on average. OK, so this is how I decide if I'm going to introduce cardio. First of all, I want to do most of my leaning out and cutting through through diet first, so cutting back on calories. And then for me, like my numbers, I never get lower than about 22, 2300 calories. Now I'm a bigger guy, so that's my number. So maybe yours is more like 1900 or 2000. I never want to go much lower than that. I just don't want to be eating that low. Plus I need a certain amount of nutrients to maintain the muscle mass in my body. So I had that's kind of my number. I don't want to go lower than that. Then I look at my steps and I go, OK, if I'm taking 8000 steps right now and I want to continue leaning out next week, my goal is that every single day I'm going to hit 10,000 steps. And then the next week after that, I'm like, OK, every day I'm going to hit 12,000 steps through walking, just activity throughout the day. Then it comes to a point when I and for me, it's around 16,000 or so where it's really hard for me to just add walks in the day to get 16,000 steps. So now I actively pursue, you know, a half hour or 45 minutes on the treadmill in addition to my activity. And it's low, low, you know, list cardio, so low intensity, not going hard at all just really again, paying attention to steps. I'm trying to hit that 16,000 steps. And so that's how I introduce cardio. It's much easier to reverse out of that once I hit my lean point that I want to be at. So I'm not forced with this hour of intense cardio twice a day like some of these competitors do. So that's a much better strategy because unless you want to do cardio continually, what will happen is if you do it to get down to your 10 percent and they're like, cool, I'm at 10 percent. And then you completely cut out of cut it out. You're going to put all the weight right back on. Yeah. But Adam, I want to ask you this because you did cardio when you competed, right? And you've already gotten down to at that point, you know, four percent body fat or three percent body fat. So, you know, Ron, you have 14 percent body fat. I mean, unless you want to get on stage and you're getting down to the low singles or, you know, mid single digit body fat percentage, I don't think cardio cardio is not a great way to lean out. It's just it's a healthy way to exercise. One of the side effects is sometimes you get leaner. But your best bet is to do this with diet and strength training. That's what's going to get you lean in the most sustainable, most effective way possible. You could also I. So you you went anabolic, you went anabolic advance. Now you're back anabolic and I put you on performance. You do a program like that. That's more novel. You also have a phase in there where you have endurance, so you're definitely going to burn more calories and workouts. In there. Yeah, you're doing different exercises. You're not that aren't traditional. So all that stimulus is going to end up utilizing more energy, which is going to result in you leaning out. So that's also a great strategy. So cutting your calories a little bit more, following a different program, focusing on steps, you may never have to even do cardio and easily get down from 14 to 10 percent. OK, so well, that was going to be my next question then. So at what point so if you want to get into the low single digits or even even say high single digits at that point you need to introduce cardio, you know, you don't necessarily ever need to. You could get down. So OK, you you're carrying yourself at 14 percent when I was off when I was not in prep. I was off season, right? So when I was in my phase of putting size on, I actually maintained around 10 percent body fat, maybe 11 at the highest when I was competing. And then I would prep for a show show prep would only be about six to eight weeks for me because I kept myself in that nine to 10 percent range and I could drop about a percent every single week just through reducing calories and increasing my steps throughout my day. And then maybe the final two weeks or so when I'm assessing my body and I'm getting ready to be on stage in two weeks, I would use cardio because I realized like, oh, I need to get a little bit leaner before. But I mean, I would get all the way down to six sub six percent, which is, you know, stage physiques for a lot of people without even doing any cardio just by walking and diet. And then your cardio was was was what was it? So just well, we're walking or running or yeah, yeah, mostly walking. I never had to do intense cardio. There was no point. I would never want to push my body with intense cardio in a calorie deficit because it sends a signal to body to pare down muscle. If you're doing intensive cardio while also in a calorie deficit, holding on to muscles almost impossible. Yeah, what happened? And I'm on and I'm on anabolic steroids. It's still your body is going to your body is getting the signal that, oh, I'm feeding it less. And it's asking me to do endurance. We don't need a lot of muscle. So all I would do is walk. You'll be an inclined walk at the highest bit of intensity if I'm doing any sort of like formal cardio. The rest was just done in steps. What happens to a lot of people is they'll do the cardio. They'll see the scale weight go down. Yeah. But their body fat percentage does not go down because they've lost muscle along with body fat. So if you just want to lose, you know, go down in size, then I would say that's fine. But if you're trying to get lean and maintain muscle, I mean, again, I'm going to just go back to what I said earlier. Cardio is a great way to build stamina, endurance. It can be very healthy just to increase activity. I'm not anti cardio. It's just people who use it for the for something that it's not great at like, oh, I just want to get lean. It's not a great way to get lean. Great way to get lean is strength train and diet. That's the way that you get lean. And the only reason why competitors use cardio is because they exhaust all methods. You're looking at a very extreme situation where every calories counted, every drop of water is counted. Their volume is equated. They're just like at the very end. But I mean, the average person, no, now, I think they should do cardio for health. I think it's good for you. But you're talking about just getting leaner, in which case I'd say no, don't don't do don't do any don't worry about it. Yeah, you just got to just got to keep in mind what the signal you're sending the body by doing cardio while also cutting calories. I mean, you want to know a real real quick way to lose muscle. That's the fastest is that's that's the recipe right there. High intensity cardio for long duration in addition to low calories is the fastest way to reduce muscle mass. And so I'm trying my best to manipulate my program, reduce calories and create more movement like walking throughout the day as much as I can before ever having to use cardio. And if I can do it without ever doing that, I won't. And now the only reason why it when you get down to like four or five percent, that's what it gets great. It gets really difficult to shred every last bit of body fat on you. So that extra push on cardio kind of makes sense. But unless you're getting on stage, you could get down to six percent body fat and never do formal cardio at all. Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah, because I I've ran, like I said, that program I've seen tremendous results from it. And, you know, I was one of those that just kind of did the bro split, you know, never did legs. And then I started doing your your programs, phenomenal programs, by the way. So then I just decided I will two days a week for anabolic, you know, maybe I'll incorporate some running just to kind of, I guess, amplify the the the burn. But that makes sense. I mean, I understand what you all are saying. I just I was curious if you could incorporate it into a cut, but, you know, well, could and most optimal are two different things. Could you? Yes. Is it most optimal? No, not if your goal is to hang on to as much muscle as possible. And let me tell you what the the people that will try and counter this argument with me that are the science nerds, the biggest benefit to this this aspect of shredding out or building muscle that cardio makes sense is when it hinders your workouts. So if you can't do, you know, say sets of 15 and squats and you're gassed cardiovascularly and your muscles aren't fatigued, then there's huge value in building endurance, building endurance in order to push your body and the weights like that. But if you've got pretty good endurance like that, and you can say do 20 reps of squats with good weight and stuff like that. And it's your legs that give out before your your heart gives out on you, meaning you out of breath type of deal. Then you're probably pretty damn good as far as your your cardiovascular endurance. You people think that you have to get on this like formal treadmill to to be doing something that's strengthening their heart. You do some supersets or 20 sets of squats and you're going to build some pretty damn good cardiovascular endurance. You know, and I would challenge anybody that doesn't believe that to go try that and do that. And so and that's a much better strategy to leaning out while also maintaining muscle is doing 20 sets of 20 reps of squats. You're going to get those benefits, the cardiovascular benefits while also hanging on to more muscle that way versus you taking that same period of time and getting on a treadmill and going for runs. Does that make sense? Yeah, of course. Okay. All right. I just want to say two things. Number one. I listen to other podcasts and this is a shout out to Doug, the the the vocals and the the acoustics in your studio are phenomenal. It's hard to listen to another podcast. Second thing. There was like an Aussie guy on this show like two weeks ago and he mentioned something about how you guys provide like tremendous content about being fathers and stuff like that. And I just want to second that he he provided a really nice comment to you guys and you guys do a really good job kind of, you know, explaining fatherhood and, you know, being, you know, almost father figures to everybody else that are not, you know, in this in this space. So yeah, man, you guys are doing great. Thank you. That's actually one of our favorite comments to hear that I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah. Thanks, guys. Hey, wait, wait, did you do you not have map performance? No, I know I'm going to have Doug send that to you because that's I think that would be a great program for you also. So let's let's add that to you. All right. Thanks, guys. You got it. Appreciate it. That this is where we get the you know, this labeling in the comments you'll have some morons, right? Listen, cardio is good for you. You should do some cardio. It's healthy. Activity is good for you. You should do some that kind of activity. It's good for you. Yeah, it's it's a terrible way to get lean. It is not a great strategy to get lean. Not a fat burning button. What looking at your diet and doing strength training is a much more effective way of losing just pure body fat. That's it. So if you're doing cardio for the sake of trying to lose body fat, that's I mean, can it can you use it that way? You can, but it's not a very effective approach. It doesn't work very well and it often results in muscle loss because people of the way they abuse it or utilize it. So that's just it. That's the bottom line. So the question was, should I do I need to do cardio to get lean? No. And it's probably not even the it's and it's also not the most effective way. Our next color is TJ from Utah. TJ, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, not much. What about you guys? Pretty good, man. Yeah, chilling. Cool. Hey, thanks for taking my question and I appreciate all the content that you guys put out for us. So I'll just read my question so I can be concise. I'm 42 years old, I'm 42 years old, been consistently lifting for about two and a half years. Been pretty active my life, though I've ran four maps program with the last one being cemetery and it seems like most maps programs have a heavy lifting phase, kind of heavy lifting low rep phase. It seems like or when I lift heavy on the bench, my right shoulder hurts when I lift heavy doing squats and deadlifts, my back tends to hurt. Usually haps happens at the very beginning of the phase and so I can't really lift heavy for the remaining of the phase. I've recorded myself lifting. I can't see any obvious anything that's obviously wrong with my form and then I do two to three warm up sets before these heavy lifting. And so I'm just wondering how should I approach these heavy lifting phases when it just seems to hurt me. When you're when your low back hurts from your squats, is it the center of your back? Is it the opposite side of your shoulder or same side? It is the just kind of right in the middle. Oh, it's dead. It's dead in the middle. Yeah, TJ. Most people when they go into a heavy or low rep training phase, the limiting factor is whether or not they can perform the rep or whether or not they can perform the rep and what they perceive to be good form. There's nothing wrong with that. But other limiting factors include pain. So you're going too heavy. You're lifting heavier than your body is allowing you to lift with enough stability to prevent these aches and pains. So I would suggest that when you go into these heavy phases, you drop the weight by 25 percent. It's it's just too heavy for your body at the moment. Now, as you practice this, you should be getting you should be able to go heavier as you get better. But I would go lighter than you currently are. Like if I do an exercise and I feel like I could do more reps, but I hurt. I know I can't do more reps. In fact, I'm doing too much weight already. So you need to go lighter than you currently are. Find a way that where you can do the lower reps and you don't hurt. And this may mean or probably what it means is the intensity is going much, much lower. You may do five reps with the weight that you feel like you could do eight reps with or 10 reps. But that's the right way for you for those low rep phases. And that's how you need to treat them. TJ, are you in the forum? Yes, you are. I am. I mean, I would love to see a video of your squats front front and side. That would that would give us some better, better perspective because there could be something that one of us sees, right? Sometimes people will feel like they don't notice anything or see anything. One of us will quickly see something like your foot on one side is, you know, externally rotating or pronating or your right shoulder is more forward than your left shoulder. And so, you know, those little, those little and those little imbalances like that run up the kinetic chain. And a lot of times like you think low back. And so you're so focused on the back area or something, but it's stemming all the way from your foot or it's stemming all the way from your upper back. And like, so there could be areas in your in your movement patterns that are off that are causing these these chronic issues that we need to address too. So right. And you said you went through symmetry all the way and there wasn't any glaring kind of imbalance or anything stability wise that kind of, you know, pointed out some attention for you. You just kind of went to all the way through and and everything was OK. Yeah, during the process, I didn't feel any pain. I mean, the barbell bench hurts my shoulder more than the dumbbells. Dumbbells, I'll get a little bit of pain, but it's usually after 24 hours, it's gone. So the dumbbells felt pretty good. It really, though, when I ended cemetery in the last phase, I was I thought I was gearing up that I could just be powerful and I felt, you know, that I was strong. And the first squat, I thought, OK, I could take this way. And actually, I'm not I'm not squatting that much weight for my size. And so the first rep is like, oh, this hurt. And so I just scaled it back and I did the same thing with the bench. I thought this is what I could do and I did it and it just hurt my shoulder. Yeah, I want to I want to see T. J. Don't don't make the mistake of saying this is not enough. This is not a lot of weight because whatever whatever the weight is, if it's causing pain, it's not the right weight. And oftentimes how long you've been working out? You've been doing this for a long time. Two years, no about two and a half years consistently. And then before that, were you an athlete? Yes. Yeah. Would you play? So I wrestled and played back baseball and then I've been playing old man softball for the last 20 years. I bet I bet you've got some serious forward shoulder on one side right side on one side. I bet you're you have forward shoulder. Even that, that's what makes sense while you're you hurt when you bench. So here's I'm going to have Doug send you maps prime. Do you not have that? Do you have prime yet? I do have prime and I use it every once in a while. Okay, so I want I want you to be religious about doing zone one. Okay, the zone one wall test and I really and just do this for me the next time you go to do bench put a lot of energy and effort into that. Like don't just kind of go through the motions like really intensify that zone one before and spend an extra five 10 minutes on that and then go to your bench and see if you notice a significant difference in how your bench feels on your shoulder. I I am guessing heavy emphasis on the external rotation really squeeze into it and connect before you bench and see what that does. Yeah, I asked you if you an athlete because it's really it's really challenging when you have a background in athletics, especially you said wrestling especially wrestling because I mean you know this when you when you train as a wrestler like you what makes you succeed is your ability to just go through suffer grueling like crazy ridiculous workouts and you've done you've done a lot of exercises you might not have lifted weights but you did push ups and just all kinds of movements. And so you've got you've got movement patterns that are so ingrained in you and you have this this a different relationship with pain and grueling struggle that it's going to be really hard for you to gauge kind of what you're doing what's going on like your movement patterns may be so ingrained that you're like oh this feel this is perfect what's going on and there's nothing wrong with sticking with dumbbells for a while how's that going in terms of your bench and and you know maybe like being more on on the inclined bench for instance just to kind of place you in better position biomechanically. Yeah, I dumbbells are a little easier on my shoulders or specifically on my right. So I could you know focus more on that with the with the squatting in the deadlift so I don't use a belt you guys talk about not using a belt. And so I don't. Is that something that I should implement or just go lighter now that's not going to do it. That's a bandit. Yeah. All right. So look TJ how much weight would you use let's say on a five by five deadlift. So I would be like three twenty five. Okay. Here's what I want you to do. Two twenty five. Yeah. It's good weight did go to twenty five and slow the reps down squeeze through the through the range of motion and make that two twenty five five reps feel hard. That's what I mean by going lighter. Okay. So take whatever your weight is go much lighter and then make it feel heavier by slowing the rep down by squeezing by contracting through the through the range of motion. So you want to make your much lighter weight hard even more muscle tension than you're used to. So just especially if we're addressing to there might be like a portion of the the rep down towards the bottom where you disconnect a little bit from your core bracing. And this might be like just one of those things we use momentum a lot of times too when we get down in the hole and spring back up. So to do that intentionally and squeeze and be very slow. And again that lighter weight. So the whole rep is just this this big muscle tension exercise. I mean I feel it. TJ if you're willing to do it. OK. And put the videos up on the forum of your big lifts deadlift squad bench press. I have a feeling that we're going to be able to see more into what's going on. I think we can be more specific with probably by seeing your movement. I've got to I mean the fact that you were a wrestler in a baseball player for most of my athletes. I had more were the most inbalanced clients. Oh my God. Every athlete every sport. You have to you have to think that when you played baseball you always if you're right handed you always throw with your right hand and you throw right way harder with that side. That creates that torque and twist even yet on your wrestling. I bet your takedowns are with one way like you probably led with one right. And you're always rolled forward when you're. So and you do that for years and for hundreds and thousands of reps you get so good at it your body forms and shapes that way. And then you go do something where I want you to be mechanical in a squat chest up shoulders back and this in this perfect line. You're you're not going to be you're going to be off a tiny bit. And so there's I think if I see every see you move I think we're going to be able to give you imagine there may be an asymmetrical shift there. That would be my yeah. But you know and again I'll defer back to what I said like I can make a weight that's 30% lighter than what I can normally do feel just as heavy. I know but you first need to first break down what's going on so you can queue of course right. So let's my point with this is the low it's not the low reps. It's not the low yeah it's not the low it's not the exercise it's how you move. And so lightening it up slowing it down is definitely the first step. But then the next step is us getting to the bottom of where the breakdown is and then teaching you the queue that you need. Like your your queue may be oh I need you to have your head up more or oh what's happening is your right shoulders rolling forward. So I really need you to put emphasis on squeezing your shoulder blades when you do that bench press like if I see the movement and I'll have a better a better advice on how to queue you but yes Sal's right like it's not the heavy squats it's that you were not moving correctly through them. And that's what's causing and when you go and when you go heavy to a weight that you have that you struggle lifting because that's what you think you're supposed to do and oftentimes it is then any deviation any imbalance any lack of stability just get suppose is it super blown up it's super exposed I mean you deadlift 320 pounds and if you're off a little bit it's it's not going to feel good now you go down to 225 and you slow the rep down and you make it feel heavy you're not going to run into the same problems typically so I mean this is the most valuable part I think of our forum in my opinion I think the clients that I mean because this is the toughest part of our job of the communicating on this podcast we're just speculating yeah we're over here guessing with our experience what we see in most people but it's like you could be totally different and so having and then we have people in there like Dr. Brink who are their movement specialists like that is like his forte break you down like and you know he'll be able to take it to a whole another level than we will so if you tag us and and Justin Brink to see you move we're going to give you much better insight and we'll send you if you don't have prime we'll send that to you he's already got it oh good yeah got everything you need just needed we just need to figure it out it's cold over there he frees he's frozen Utah yeah no worries he's got great hair looks and no worries yeah I think that's I that the reason why I kept saying that was it's good general advice for anybody listening yeah you're right right it's like oh my god I want to go heavy I hurt it's not the heavy it's that it's too heavy for your ability to stabilize and you can make a weight feel heavy just by changing the tension and the rep you know maintain control and tension 100% bodybuilders do this all the time in order to connect the muscles but you can do this also to to strengthen stabilization well this is also the camp that like our our friends like the Jordan shallow and stuff like that like this is the this is their philosophy or the answer for everything is to just lighten the load practice the movement yeah you light the load you keep practicing the movement and get better and better and eventually you'll create better patterns but I also think there's a faster way to this if we can figure out the more individualized the advice yeah yeah so we can figure out how he's moving it but I mean you're a wrestler and you're a baseball player for a long time those are like some of the athletes that had the most imbalances so yeah there's a lot of repeated pattern stress and when you say shoulder stuff like on the bench it's normally rounded forward shoulder it's like that's what's going on look check this out go to Instagram mine pump media for under $5 a month you'll get a workout every single week a new workout every single week it's a maps workout again mine pump media on Instagram you can also find all of us on social media so Justin's at mine pump Justin on Instagram I'm at mine pump to Stefano on Instagram and Adam is at mine pump