 Welcome back. A new amendment to the electoral act has excluded the possibility of voters challenging credentials submitted to the Independent National Electoral Commission by candidates. The proposed law, if signed by President Mohammed Buhari, will allow only those who participated in the party primaries to challenge in court the school certificates, the birth certificate and other credentials of a co-contestant. Currently, all Nigerians are allowed to challenge the credentials of candidate of any political party. These have been reaffirmed by several court judgments. Now joining us to discuss this is G. Day O'Logan, a legal practitioner and Paul James, the Program Manager Elections, Yaga Africa. Many thanks gentlemen for joining us on this particular discuss to stand around. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be with you. Let me start with you, Baista, G. Day O'Logan. I need you to break this whole new amendment as it were to us, if you would, because if it is allowed to see the light of day, Nigerians will similarly not really have so much say in primaries and, of course, all the issues that they ordinarily would want to comment. Currently, section 31, subsection 5 of the Electoral Act reads that any person who has reasonable grounds to believe that any information given by a candidate in the affidavit or any document submitted by that candidate is false. May file a suit at the federal high court. So exactly what do we have in our heads, Baista O'Logan? You know, an attempt to limit it to a candidate participating at the primary is trying to erode accountability, which is a crucial requirement in good leadership. And we may as well say that we don't even need anyone with credentials to come and context for these offices. And then we were even still talking about the introduction of the consensus candidate, then the retention of the indirect primary as we are prompting candidates. Now we have this, that is taking the local standard away from Nigerians who should be interested in those who come into government because the risk here is that if you limit it to the party, then the party may just as well overlook some of the offenses. Recall that in 2019, the celebrated case of bias has stayed. Where do you jury file the suit against the governor of candidates of APC who already was even you know, in the in the rehearsal for the inauguration into office, but they caught disqualified him and the running made because of questionable school certificates. And it touches on integrity. If people with questionable school credentials get into office, what do you expect from them? And the Supreme Court agreed that the PDP should take over from the APC despite the fact that the APC had already been declared winner by INE. And then if we want people who are trusted to occupy offices, then we should not narrow it down. But having said that also, this may be an attempt in futility, because whether you like it or not, we still have the freedom of information act, whether you still have it like it or not, we still have the pejori aspect of the law. So this serious crime should not be covered up by the National Assembly trying to masquerade. And it's really shameful, I must say, that the hallowed chambers that should be seen to be raising the bar of credibility of competence of accountability is coming up with a proposed amendment like this. It's worrisome and some of us hope that they try to backtrack. All right, then. Thanks for your opening, Salvo Barista Olobo. Let's bring Paul James into this discussion right now. You have been monitoring elections in Nigeria. And over time, you've seen these issues of litigations that have crept up, you know, because of a certificate who is qualified for election matters and all of that. So if you were just to just look at it on the face value, what does this, you know, what would it really impact on the election processes in Nigeria going forward? Well, I think you have captured it rightly because this is the first that we have expressed and also I like the opening comments by Barista Jide. Our fear as soon as society is especially because we have focused so much attention on other aspects of the bill that we didn't see when this one, I mean, when this one came to light until the conversation started a few days ago. So we are even worried that perhaps there might be other obnoxious clauses on this bill that may impede on the integrity of the electoral process. Don't forget the conversation by, as of July last, it was about electronic transmission. I mean, I did say the conversation was about mode of conducting primaries. I hear we are again also about the right for candidates to appeal for the right for people to appeal for the qualification of candidates in the election. Yes, I agree that we might see the rising cases of litigation, especially because people will, like Julia said, people definitely explore the possibility of the FOI bill and INF will be non-dated with this request. So I think if we still have the window, the National Assembly should reverse the stuff on this. All right, let me stay with you, Paul James. So do you really think Nigerians maybe are in for bigger surprises since we don't really know the extent of this amendment to this new law? Well, yeah, that is why we have been clamoring that this will have been passed into law earlier than now, because a lot of boat lessons and traditions used to have been in this regard. Besides, before you put this law into practice, you also need a lot of time to put a lot of things in place. This is just from the National Assembly. We also don't know what might happen if it gets to the present. That is also another fear that we, as a society, we have been expressing. Yeah, I wish there would be more time to really scrutinize this bill, but then as it is, it is better we have the bill than to have no bill at all, given the experience, the past experience. Whatever it is, I think going forward, then we can make any other appeal and see how we can reverse it to go to state school. All right, let's get back to the Barista, Gideo O'Logan. You talked about, you know, having the freedom of information after. You also talked about the credibility of the National Assembly, and right now they are seemingly masquerading themselves with this procurement or preclusion as it were. Judging by the fact that the National Assembly makes all of those laws, why would you think they would rather want to bring about such a, well, I say, confusion in the politics as it were, when they should ordinarily know better? You know, maybe it's the absence of a deep understanding of purpose. If you look at section four of the Nigerian Constitution 1999 as amended, the sets of the National Assembly, it says that that assembly shall make laws for the peace, order, and good governance of Nigeria. So if we now begin to relegate the relevance of competence, intellectual competence, you know, sound mind and hands on the matter to the background, then what kind of governance are we going to deliver to people? And by extension, perhaps quite a number of them that are there are with questionable certificates. The likes of us who appreciate the purpose of education will never subscribe to such a provision. If you look at the Chinese profile on governance, the process of selecting Chinese government leadership is so sophisticated that the Americans envy them. So why should we come to the point where, and we now begin to operate as if we are a tout nation? But are we surprised when you look at the fact that right now, bandits are almost taking over the country. We have a massive and disturbing profile of insecurity in the land, poverty in the land. And you begin to ask yourself, really, where is the mandate of the Constitution has enshrined in section 14, subsection two of the Nigerian Constitution 1999 as amended that says that the security and welfare of the people should be the primary purpose of government. So if they understand why they are in the National Assembly, they may not come up with proposals like this. You know, like I said earlier, maybe quite a number of them are within the bracket of those who cannot showcase their credentials. And of course, you don't try to cripple the law, try to enhance the capacity of the law. And I suppose of a force are concerned and we're expressing that concern right now. But having said all these, this provision, even if passing to law cannot remove my right to go to court to challenge anyone who has deceived us by presenting questionable credentials. You know, and if you read section 15, subsection five of the Nigerian Constitution 1999 as amended and act of the National Assembly, it says that the states shall abolish corruption and abuse of office. So when you put all this together, when we are now taking the local standard, the right of the citizens to challenge a crime, what are we trying to say? So it's a, I think they need to wake up in that National Assembly. I've said it, we have one and nine senators and 60 house arrest members expected to be representing Nigerians. But exactly who are they representing? Who are they representing? So for those clarity barista or logo, so invariably if this were allowed, you know, to scale through ordinarily to be a nullity, is that what you're saying? Definitely. But you see, we are in a country that is unique. They have told the world that they have identified 400 sponsors of Puku Haram until now. No one has been named. No one has been brought for prosecution. So how do you describe such a nation? You see, so and that is why we keep praying that something happens that puts us on the pedestal of good governance. We have the sustainable development goals of the United Nations that have been evaluated in the year 2030. How much of those goals have we embraced? You can see how difficult it has been for our president to declare the bandits are terrorists. You can see the bloodshed across the nation. You can see the inflation rate. You can see the unemployment rate. You can see the fact that as we speak now, our total indebtedness as a nation is in the threshold of about 39 trillion Naira. It was 3.12 trillion Naira around March 2015. So I mean, what we are exactly are we going? That's the point. Like I said earlier, the National Assembly has demanded to make laws for the peace order and good governance of Nigeria. And anything short of that, we amount to a waste of resources and these times of great Nigerians by going to that hallowed chambers. They said they are there for themselves just to enjoy the goodies of office. But having said all this, they can either secure the future or mortgage the future. But proposed laws like this may end up mortgaging the future. Thank you, Mr. Onogu. Let's talk to Paul James. Paul, you raised some concern and indeed I am also concerned because as from what we hear today, the Senate has passed the harmonized version of the Electoral Act Amendment Bill. What were the back and forth that we had with some direct and direct primaries and of course the consensus, you know, candidates and everything. So what do we really have right now? Because a whole lot of Nigerians are seemingly not, you know, well informed about this particular, you know, acts as it is. And we are in the middle of an election here. So what exactly do we see happening when Nigerians are not so sensitized concerning these new changes that we have in our process of conducting elections in the country? Well, I think we have something that has been happening in Nigeria, although not in a more recognized way. If you think about even some of the parties and the way they elected their leaders, PDP, for instance, just recently decided to stay for the party chairmanship to the North Central and somehow they had an agreement that the chair of the party should come from a particular state. In some sense that is a consensus. But then the fear is when people begin to get untwisted to begin to dance to the tunes of some part of people in the party. And so it is then, if they remove the question of democracy. And so this is also because some persons have benefited from this in the past and they want to legalize the process. We had a party also in 2015 that elected their own candidate on the platform or on the basis of consensus. That is all agreeing to the consensus agreement. But then again, when you don't have all of the people dancing towards one direction, it becomes a problem. What we are trying to solve in one breath, you also open up whims and another breath, meaning we might likely also see litigation where some persons don't, where you don't have all members of the particular party, for instance, agreeing to how to go about the idea of a consensus. Now, the other, the other modes of grammar is direct and indirect. A lot of questions have been raised, especially about one, internet party democracy, two also about the party membership. Not all of these parties have updated records of their members. And so again, that opens up another problem, another challenge because he will control what seemingly as the alternative where they serve the party gets to also control what happened at that level. So either way, you see it, we still have this challenge. That is why voter education and sensitization needs to happen. I am not sure. I mean, we have the barrister on the court, perhaps we will provide clarity on this. I am not sure what the court may say about this. This is an agreement first at the national assembly level. I also see the possibility that this also opens up wounds for litigation in the future, where people questioning how and the manner and how these parties who are about engaging in all these processes. All right. Thank you so much. We must serve a very big thank you to our guests this time around. A very big thank you to GD, a legal practitioner. And of course, Paul James, Programme Manager of Elections, Yaga Africa. Thank you so much and gentlemen for your time. We do appreciate it. Thank you very much. God bless Nigeria. Yeah, God bless Nigeria indeed. Thank you for staying with us. Now we bring you a package where Nigerians express their opinion whether voters should be able to take candidates to court over their certificates or not. And after that, I'll be giving you my take. Well, that's not democracy. We can't contest. I mean, there should be checks and balances. The masses should be able to hear their views about what is going on, you know, with the electorate. I mean, this is not a German-German government. The electorate and the masses should be able to, you know, work hand in hand and see what is best for the masses. Adjust it. We, the people are the owners of the power. We own the power in case they don't know. And if it means that we will have to march down to National Assembly to sack every single one of them, I will be part and parcel of that. So for the legislator to tell me that I have no, I cannot question anything he says. He doesn't know what he's saying because the power was given to him by me. And I can recall him if I decide to. So, but all I would say is that they should not push Nigerians to the wall. The issue is that, you know, there's maladministration of things in Nigeria. So the proper administration is not in place. So even if we challenge them, they have the monetary means to fight these things down. They have the connection know-how to fight these things out. Okay. Like, for instance, maybe you are my Godfather and you want me to be there so that I can pay homage to you. You have your tentacles lined up in the way I'm going to gather. And before you know it, they will just stampede everything and put me there. And I'll be answering to him. I want to listen to people because even if people are going into the sun to stand for you all day, because I can imagine how people suffer to stay in the sun and to vote their their right choice. But at the end of the day, the issue of Godfatherism is not helping us. So even if we are trying to question them, trying to say their opinion, that okay, they hit the nail on the head or what we want them to represent us for, but still they're not going to bulge. And here is my take. The report of 486 people killed in Nigeria in three weeks leaves much to be desired. It is unacceptable. Government cannot just fold its arm and watch the people you'd have sworn to protect die each passing day. To think that in the first week of the year, a president, Mohamed Dupuhari, said the country is more secure. Alas, it is as though life has turned full circle on us. So I believe this is one area Nigerians must pressure the government because we cannot continue to live in this very insecure environment. Don't forget that the security crisis also has very big implications for food security, inflation, hunger, and agricultural production. So we really need to call on the government to be more purposeful in addressing these challenges. My name is Justin, and I'll see you again tomorrow. Bye for now.