 I am Dixon Olakayelo and I am the Chief Executive Officer for the Kenya Wildlife Conservancies Association. We are an umbrella body for 160 conservancies spread across 28 counties in Kenya and we work to secure wildlife and wildlife areas outside our national parks and national reserves. Human wildlife conflict is a growing problem in our country and it is a symptom of a challenge that we face. We have a growing population, we have a developing country and we also have a lot of wildlife. 65% of our wildlife is out in these areas and as people look for food as they come into some of these wildlife habitats to create farms and to create home states they often get into corridors where they are wildlife and therefore conflicts become inevitable. Wildlife is a national asset and it's a public good and the benefits associated with wildlife is immense. But then there is also the cost, there is the cost of, for gone opportunities there is also the cost of loss of life, loss of crops, loss of livestock which often affect some of the poorest people in our communities and I think the fact that there are so many and they are spread first of all brings economies of scale meaning that it is possible to create a network of areas that are covered by an insurance program. There is also the fact that the costs are immense when you lose a family head or you lose a herd of livestock we've had people that have lost up to 200 sheep at a go and maybe five cows, if you quantify that it's such a huge cost and I think there is, and Kenyans generally are very used to insurance they insure the vehicles, they insure their kids, they insure their health even in rural areas people are aware of insurance and I think that is also an opportunity I think it's also an opportunity that there is a very strong government goodwill there is also a goodwill from conservation NGOs this is a challenge that they've tried to tackle for many years it's not been possible because they have been using ecology mind trying to create this and so really bringing in the insurance sector brings in expertise, brings in ability to validate because one of the big problem we've had in the government insurance scheme is possibilities for corruption, possibilities for not covering the landscape not being able to quantify the loss in ways that make economic sense and I think the private sector and especially the insurance sector has dealt with those these things and found ways and technology to do some of these things I think it's also that it's a problem that affects individual so also although we often look at it from a community lens at the end of the day the person that loses is an individual it's a household and so the denominator is very clear it's very easy to know who that is and therefore being able to create a program around it Thank you so much for that and what do you foresee as possible challenges for the insurance sector I think the big challenges that I foresee is first of all there is already knowledge that compensation is done by government and that's a mindset change that will have to be dealt with because when people already expect government to compensate any person coming into a solution might first of all be what's the role of government in here I think also that just looking forward the number of wildlife are beginning to increase in the country in some places and also there is a huge expansion of agriculture and so we have farms coming up in places that they didn't exist before and what that means is that the number of potential claims are likely to be quite high what you see today in government documents is just a fraction of the actual problem because some people have lost interest because they have reported twice, twice there has not been no feedback and as a result if something more efficient comes you expect more reporting and that then means that there will be quite a number of cases to deal with the third issue is I think we have an insurance scheme has to come with a mitigation program because you have to minimize them the chances of it happening otherwise it will be very expensive and so I think there is a need to look at a dual approach where we are looking at how do we mitigate and how do we prevent human wildlife conflict at the same times and then when it happens then how do we compensate and that is something that I struggle to see how of course there are quite a few effort but currently I think we are just focusing on insurance but I think the insurance industry should also push the government to make sure that there is an implementation of a program that prevents and helps mitigate conflicts and I think lastly is who pays the premium already the communities are filling the pinch of the cost that they incur and so I see that any program that is going to them to say you need to pay some premium in order for you to be insured could easily be opposed by the current mentality that we have already lost or we have lost but I think there are clever ways to overcome that and I think that is a big challenge that the industry has to really think about Okay insurance about risk management and so long as you are able to quantify that risk and do their query which is the mathematics behind it then it can be modeled and it can be covered human wildlife conflict as the industry has a lot of data KWAs a lot of data MGOs have a lot of data and we can model and be able to estimate the risk premium and once we are able to estimate the risk premium we can actually articulate that to the industry the challenge has been people in the wildlife industry don't know how to communicate the risks that they are facing and that those risks can actually be covered by insurance companies so today's forum is the first time the two of them met so by the meeting today they are able to say oh your risks are this but I can ensure them and then now the wildlife people are like oh we have been complaining then now let us look at what can be how can we model a product what will be the exclusions what do we understand then we leave that a while what do we understand then we ensure that and that is the essence of today's meeting is bringing the insurance industry to the table to understand human wildlife conflict and the risk mitigation measures which also include insurance going to the fact that you work for both industry insurance sector and the wildlife sector what do you foresee as the challenges for the insurance sector what should they expect the insurance industry first of all should expect the wildlife industry doesn't share insurance they don't understand it because they have never interacted with it okay and there are many other countries that have gone through more interesting experiences so one of the things that the insurance industry must demand is reform in the wildlife sector to then prepare itself for risk mitigation you have heard for example people talk about ownership if the state continues to say they own wildlife for example we assign user rights if for example within a ranch and they are residents zebras I should have a user right over them exploit them for tourism and many other ways of exploiting it and therefore I pay the premium because I have right over that wildlife but you see right now the law says the state has right over it even if it's sitting on my land so that is why when then the same animals raid my crops they then go to the state and say pay me it's yours so there are some reforms which are required in law which then will facilitate then their movement towards insurance there are several opportunities but one good thing I must mention here is is for all of us to agree that there is a conflict and it is happening every day when I'm sitting here I'm still receiving calls and SMEs of conflicts happening and people need to mitigate there are several areas you can do mitigation you either support the existing compensation programs and come up with a product or you come with your own product and support mitigate the situation because it's really going above the roof it's exploding every now and then the existing consolation scheme have done a little bit but now on crops and human it's something else so we need to find a solution on that especially for the poor people one of the most common challenges is people try to cheat I know of a person who tried to scatter the kakas from one goat to five goat people need money and they will always try to cheat another one is when there is money you are paying for somebody who is killed by another animal there are people who will criticize so you must be ready for publicity you must also be ready for people to try not really supporting what you are doing people writing very good papers against your program people not really understanding even how that program is run I know of people talking about consolation and compensation scheme and they don't have even the idea of how it is being run how the verification is done how the whole process community need to get their cows back a farmer need to get his crop back or at least something that can tell him not to think about retaliation that's where we are I think one of the things that I see is an opportunity for the insurance sector is the fact that this is a new opening I think it's something that the formal or the normal insurance doesn't have to deal with and for the first time now we are seeing the insurance coming into issues of human wildlife conflict compensation so for me that is a new beginning and a very good opportunity for the insurance community to be able to to take advantage of this and I see a vast opportunity by way of the size of what we are talking about Kenya wildlife service conservancies and being able to engage in that kind of insurance so for me it's a big big opportunity for them I see a big opportunity there I think one of the biggest challenges that came out in this conference today is the issue of trust I think the community is I don't know whether it's based on past experiences with insurance there is an issue of trust but I think if the insurance community community or companies go in with the community rather than coming from the outside to try and tell the community what to do but if they go in with the community then I see the community then softening because all they want is to know that there is that the monies that they put in if at all there is going to be money for compensation is it going to the right places is it going to the right people so this is probably where the insurance company and the trust so that is to be able to implement as A.B. consultants we are very proud to have been part of this consultative forum from the planning stages to see that it actually happened and what we have learned from this forum is that there is an overwhelming interest about human wildlife conflict what has come out from this conference is that the insurance sector is very much interested in trying to mitigate this risk that come out as a result of what we have seen the conservation is speaking and talking about co-creation and a collaborative approach as to how this issue will be mitigated and it will be very interesting to see how this co-creation and collaborative approach will help in mitigating this risk it sounds very positive and I am very hopeful for the future of human wildlife conflict mitigation in Kenya My name is Rehab Kariuki Ika Africa Designs Agriculture Insurance Solutions we have been doing this in East Africa for the last nine years so considering that over 65% of the world animals are outside protected zones I think there is a huge opportunity for the private sector the insurance industry to partner with government to support in mitigating whenever this wildlife conflict issues come up so data has shown that there is a high percentage of the human wildlife conflict incidences due to crop damages by these wild animals especially elephants, zebras and other animals so there is a huge opportunity there for the private sector or the insurance industry to partner with government to deal with compensation of crop losses so the insurance industry would be in the calculation of these crop losses or estimation of these losses I think it's a complicated process but the insurance industry has already come up with different measures or standards of how to calculate these losses so a lot can be copied from standard crop insurance processes there are also opportunities for weather index or drought insurance solutions that there is a correlation between drought years and a spike in human wildlife conflict