 Who will be the 10th Senate president? That's the question we're going to be dissecting tonight, as the race for Senate presidents to the 10th National Assembly kicks off. And all eyes are on Einegger's collation has been halted on supplementary elections held in a dammer estate over the weekend. This is Post-Politics. I am Mary Anna Cole. No fewer than 11 APC Senators elected out of the 59 so far declared by the Independent National Electoral Commission, Einegger, have signified their interest in the number one position of the nation's Apex Legislative Institution. They are Senators Sani Musa North Central, Jibrin Barau, North West, Oji, Kalu, South East, Kotsulak Babu, South South, Osita, Isunaso, South East, Pita Ndubezi, South East, Abdulaziz Yairi, North West, Ahmed Lawan, North East, Ali Ndume, North East, David Umahi, South East, and Adam Zashomele from the South South. Now the leadership and members of a strong coalition made up of 43 opposition Senators elect and now the beautiful brides of the aspirants for the position of the Senate presidency. Now ranking Senators of the all-progressive Congress, APC, who are aspiring to lead the 10th Senate, are now looking beyond the zoning arrangements being planned by the leadership of the party. Now other minority parties are the Labour Party and the New Nigeria People's Party, the NNPP, the Social Democratic Party, STB, and the All-Progressive Grand Alliance, APCA, and the Young Progressive Party, YPP. What's allowing us to discuss this tonight is Tamino Williams, he is former chairman of Okrika, local government in the river states. So good to have you join us Mr Williams. Good evening. Oh yes, living on my former pleasure to be with you guys with the APC. Great. Great. Let's start by looking at, you know, the fact that the APC obviously is in the lead, they're the majority, and of course for them to be able to get every single vote that they need to get an emergence of a Senate president, the PDP and of course the Labour Party. Like I said in my intro, are the beautiful bride, but let's get back to the basis. As we speak right now, of course, these are all senators-elect, and there's a loss of jostling happening right now. Where should everybody be looking? Because we see more South East people contending, or candidates contending for this position. Well, our politics in Nigeria is still at its infancy, so to speak, and that is because the parliamentary culture and conventions have not crystallized into where you can talk with a high level of predictability. That notwithstanding, the incoming president, if so fact to all things being equal, is coming from the South-South, and then if you micro-analyze it, it's from the Southwest. The question is, can the South East, you know, present a Senate president, which means that the southern part of Nigeria will bring number one, and then number three of course is from the North East, and then the next position on which is the Senate presidency, which is the head of national assembly, will now come from the South-South. So I don't see that as political, politically expedient, you know. So I agree that the South East have been out of inflation for a long time, but if you look at political expediency and national cohesion, I think that the Senate presidency ordinarily should go back to the North. That is my political permutation for peace. Recall, and that before now, we've been talking about marginalization, the North in this outgoing government seems to have zoned a lot of the positions to the North. So for me, and a lot of people have discussed that, in fact, you've listened to Fashola yesterday. He was begging the point, he found respect, he's begging the point when the position was opposed to him, but I think that the Senate presidency ordinarily should go to the North. Okay. Let's look at the zoning situation. I mean, I'm going to go, you know, with all of the parties and where they're coming from. Like I said earlier on, there seems to be more South-Eastness, but so far we've seen Senator Alin Dume who has thrown his hat into the ring, obviously, signifying that he's, you know, interested in that particular position. We've also seen, I think, Elisha Abou, who is also a member of the APC, he used to be in the PDP during the APC. We see Shehu Buubah, who's of the APCs from Baalchi State. And then, of course, we see, I mean, unfortunately, whoever has to come from the North has to come from the majority. But how many of these people from the North, like you have said, for peace and justice and fair play, being that the president elect is from the South-South, the second person or the third person who's the Senate president needs to come from the North. But looking at those who have indicated interest to run for this office from the North, that you're talking about, who stands a better chance because it looks also like this might just be not just about the personality, but who would be able to, you know, win the battle within the party. Yes, very well. I said in mind, hopefully, we might, our policy allows us to be aware of what currently is the critical part of the persons who are coming from the South, but the political mathematics is not clear, why am I saying it's not clear? At the end of the day, the decisions and the outcome will not be based on geopolitics. It will be based on political experience. But my take is that if the party does not zoom, which is critical, and I tell you, the party is working towards coming out of the zone, but we don't zoom, and then if it's zoom open, it may go to the highest bidder. It may not be on the platform of justice, equity, and national interest. So to make a guess will be difficult, will be very difficult, because you cannot stick with certainty that it's voting will not follow issues of national interest. It may actually be the person with the highest cash, and then what is the interest of its present elect? We have a lot to give. But I believe that at the end of the day, with what we hear, it will be based on national interest. So it won't be the capacity of the candidate. It is capacity, okay? We know that a party that has been in the field for a long time has a qualification. Okay? And then it has a qualification, the capacity, and then in Jume, it's from the north east, where the vice president comes from. So automatically, he cannot be considered. That would be over-concentration. And if you go back to the other guys too, the guy from Bauchi has a chance. But like I said, it may not be on capacity. It may not be on the interest of the current or the president, the incoming president, and then the APS internal politics. You made mention of something. Before we go into the personalities who are in this race, and you talked about capacity in terms of those who have been in the National Assembly for longer, the likes of former governor, Goswala Krabi. But let's stay on an issue that she raised, going to the highest bidder. That's one of the things I wanted to, you know, quiz you on. We all watched, I mean, the whole country watched and saw what happened during the APC primaries and, you know, all that transpired. And all those who aligned and realigned. And of course, that brought about the emergence of the president-elect. Do we see that happening now? Because again, there's news that foreign exchange is making its way into the hands of a couple of people. There's just some form of, what's it called, vote-buying. We're seeing that again, even though many people will not own up to it. But we're hearing that that's what's happening. Monies are exchanging hands. Do we see a repeat of what happened at the APC primaries before the emergence of the president-elect play out again in this race for the Senate presidency? Well, I need to talk very calmly. Very calmly, what happened at the APC primaries, I was not in the delegate. So I did not see, but we heard that dollars, there was dollar in, you know, the dollar in. But apart from the APC presidential primaries, the money has been a dominant role in politics worldwide, worldwide. And they thought they have now in that. In fact, we have national beliefs today. They said a million dollar isn't really a must by some kind of, for each member of the Senate is good for that person's kind nature. And there are not many. There are not many. I understand the need that take what is in the media, anything to go by it is correct. Money will play the big role. Because a lot of these candidates spend a lot of money to buy, to purchase from, to contest. And he's been already campaigned. And you can imagine the level of scramble for that position. It is the case to one point that the way he led this president is going to be a culinary, you know, it's going to be a lot of financial benefit of the solution. So I can tell you that I'm convinced that unless the president let push to sit down and it's going to be raining, you know, members of the party and convince them that let national interest prevail, which I doubt is possible. Because participating in Nigeria is at this kindergarten stage. So my tip is that money will play a role no matter the position that comes. Even if it's going to be national interest, that interest will be backed up by financial investment. If we see this playing, and I know, I know that you're not in the Senate, of course, we're all stakeholders in our nation's democracy, whether we like it or not. Bearing in mind also that there's still very much aggrieved people as a result of what happened, you know, the outcome of the elections. And there's still, I mean, looking at what happened in Adamawa state, there's so many people who have grievances. But if we are still on the page of dealing with vote buying, and we're still seeing it play out even now as we're getting ready to see or people are positioning themselves with these offices, what's the guarantee that we're going to have the right people in the right places, especially for those who are in charge of, you know, the writing our laws and pushing for bills that would, like you said, benefit national interest, course to say that that would, one way or the other, be the case if we're still dealing with vote buying and financial inducements as opposed to people, you know, deserving that office based on their track records. Yeah, the situation is, it's not so peculiar to Nigeria. The only that I would say now, take your mind back to the United Nations House of ... You know, the fellow who managed to pick up the House of ... by character in my conduct, in my opinion, these have been the best. You know, the current American president, sorry, former president, you know, Trump, don't you also have ethical issues? You're aware. In fact, the issue of the sex-related and all issues. Brighting, yes. Yes. Whether it's Tom Dan ... Tom Dan, yes. Yes. So, so, politician, when it's politician, who lives by politics, you know, their personal world is expedient to results. You know, national interest is dental to results. That's my opinion as a political scientist. So, we cannot guarantee that the best candidate to manage the semester. We can't guarantee that. You know why? Look at this year, previous new president. Some military students, administrators, you know, and all of that, with their academic experience or experience, you know, resolve or even influence the outcome of the legislation. Most of them know. They can just talk of only one or the same. The former president, who stood his ground to say, you can't have a policy. I'm just skipping. It's just coming out of my brain. I'll remember him. Okay. Yeah. So, what I'm saying is that there's no outcome. There is no parameter. There are no conditions currently on ground that can guarantee the Nigerian masses to have a senior president who will say unanimously that this one is the best. People's choice. Look at the array of candidates. Even to make a choice, I won't say it, you know, where a few persons will have a character and integrity and a value system to drive the system. See, to be close to the president, your first objective would be the interests of the country. But unfortunately, Nigerians, 90% of us do not consider our country's interests first. So, whoever can go over the system, considers most appropriate will emerge or who has the deepest pocket will emerge. Either way, the interest of Nigeria is not denominator. That's quite unfortunate. But let's go back to the politics of it. Recently, the PDP national was threatening sanctions, being that, again, the fallouts of the elections, the general elections, what happened in river states raised the loss of eyebrows. And we see that PDP members on the floor of the National Assembly who are termed as governor, we case men, seem to be allegedly aligning already with members of the APC to give them the numbers. And of course, those who are not necessarily termed as we case men at the National Assembly seem to be kicking against it. What's your take on this? I mean, does it come to you as a surprise, being that you, of course, were in river states and so what happened? No, it's not a surprise to me. It's a surprise to me. The key variables are this one, that we build up the elections in river states and realize that... Are you still there, Mr. Williams? Yeah, we lost you for a second. Go ahead, please. Yes. So the Liberty governor was saying that it was a tone of the sound to produce a message, okay? And I think that was not possible at least the chairman of the party should come to the south. But this was what was provided in their constitution. I agree with him on that point. I think we're losing you, but I'm going to come back again. Okay, Mr. Williams, I think we lost you for a second. We couldn't hear what you were saying. So you said, the last thing you said was that you agree with Governor Wieke on the fact that it was a tone of the sound to lead in the presidency. Yes, I agree with him completely. But... Okay, go ahead, go ahead, please. That little agitation back and forth and you got the G5 and all that. So you can see that the vote in reverse state was tainted towards the EPC presidential candidate. And for the first time, the EPC was in reverse state. So you can see that there appears to be some level of... some level of approachment or some level of understanding in reverse state that at the national level it will not be inappropriate to form a lion. Because what we also want this time is to see that from the center the state benefits enormously. Enemously. And that's what I'm surprised. If some persons national assembly are going to support the EPC politics, what are we talking about? How reverse state can advance? How reverse state can grow? How reverse state can benefit? And we still are the treasure base. For these few years also we're within the reverse to the non-silicone enormous you know... But do you not think that the reason why, because again, correct me if I'm wrong, half the time the politicking or who gets what is as a result of who supports it who. Remember what President Buhari said when he was receiving his certificate of return back in the day about those working for those who voted for him. I mean, so again whether the PDP, I mean because reverse state is a PDP state was... And you're saying that reverse state has not enjoyed a lot. Is it not because the reverse states at the time were voting in the PDP direction. Now that the reverse state has in quotes, voted for the APC of course, there's that certainty whether we like it or not in our way of politicking that certain things would go to them because of what they did and how they what weight they pulled to get the presidency to where he is or the president elect to where he is today. So I don't know if it's the alignment that because I'm guessing also. Correct me again if I'm wrong. The president elect is not going to be president of those who voted for him, but he actually is vying for the position of the president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. So why should he be prioritizing some and not the others? Well, I think that from my knowledge of politics and ethnic studies the little presidency would be diametrically different from the very popular. How so? Can you hear me? Yes, how so? You're saying it will be different. What would be different changes? From analysis of his policies, his engagement is the man of his political engineering which is he has had a clear vision of what he wants what he wants to see that he can go back to what happened in Lagos. Couldn't that also have been said about, I'm so sorry to talk over you couldn't that have also been the same thing that people said about President Buhari before, I mean we're here now almost he handing over. A lot of people have said that he was going to be a no nonsense person. His leadership was going to be more you know, directional it was going to address all of the issues but here we are almost years down the line and nothing has happened but here we go again with the rhetorics and you know the waxing lyrical about what will happen. Yes, so the point you made is correct. A lot of us felt that Buhari with his military experience and even his pattern life the man who lives a full gun life, we're going to see a lot of changes. But we have seen that when you look back at from the era to PTDI there is a pattern there is a pattern. I don't agree with that but the point is that Buhari presidency is not true of enough novel ideas you know if you recall that it was hard challenges of us to a great extent reduce his capacity to deliver you know and then from the president the presidency became more pronounced. I will leave it at that because I know that the listeners who are intentional understand what I mean. You can solve it. Okay. No, I can force for you to... Go ahead, I was just chuckling. Okay, but Buhari president Buhari his tenure ended up in the presidency you know so the presidency was like an amalgam of people institutional. The president what we expect in this leadership is that those core ideas those core ideas ideas of the foundation of power ideas of economy to states to local government ideas that we talk about through socialism are the ideas we expect to be to drive and if you see even I think to converse that now those ideas will bring about some level of diversification of its space of authority to bring excellence to bring it all. So coming back to the core point the point is that the tenable presidency is expected to run a pan-Nigerian government because he is a democrat core democrat for my own analysis Buhari evolved from a military ruler to a democrat and his success level was much more higher when it was in the military head of state you know and then with his age and his desire not to be seen to be a hash his decision making policy became very slow very slow and the team he assembles you know the team that he used is critical look at Chelsea for example Lampard the 1490 format coach wasn't doing well the core voting changes the team delivers faster for a kind of coach when you go stick you go stick them together I am using this to illustrate the point I am making we expect that tenable will assemble a world class thing and then there will be coordination in Buhari government coordination that is why that is why that is why you cannot see anything deliver to the lack okay well all of these things are hopes and I am hoping that these hopes would come into fruition everything that you have said remains to be seen let's see how long it will take for all of these things to come to play but we are going to keep our eyes on what is happening on the floor of the senate who emerges at the end of the day well we want to appreciate you Tamino Williams is former chairman of the Kreeka local government thank you very much for joining us tonight my pleasure we will take a quick break when we return we will be discussing the suspension of resort coalition in Adamo estate and of course what has happened to the Wreck stay with us