 This is Startup Storefront. There's nothing better than a home-cooked meal. As the pan simmers, the tantalizing aroma's filled the air and everyone's taste buds begin to salivate in excitement. For Hector Saldevar, the founder of T-Labida, sharing his family's hot sauce recipe is akin to welcoming you into his kitchen for a home-cooked meal. In Latin American culture and others, family recipes are passed down from generation to generation. Hector, with his mother's blessing, has taken her hot sauce and bottled it for everyone to enjoy. Some recipes are just too good not to share with the world. T-Labida sells cactus chips, grain-free tortillas, and the best hot sauce on the market. Listen in as we discuss how Hector convinced his mom to let him commercialize their secret family hot sauce recipe, why the large Hispanic brands are out of touch with today's consumer, and why Border Patrol agents started questioning the increasingly large amounts of home-cooked hot sauce being brought over the Mexico-American border. And thank you to Cat Footwear for sponsoring this episode. They're a premier shoe company that empowers builders and doers to reframe the world to create something more meaningful. And on that note, let's jump into the episode. All right, welcome to the podcast. On today's show, we're talking to Hector from T-Labida. Thanks for joining. Welcome. Thank you so much, guys. We're very excited. For people who don't know, what is T-Labida Foods? What's the company do? T-Labida is a better-for-you Mexican-inspired food brand that uses clean, simple ingredients in all of our products. And we are the first brand in the United States to introduce cactus or nopales as an alternative, functional, sustainable ingredient in our line of tortilla chips and tortillas. And what made you want to start the company? Like what was the first thing you were trying to... Because I know, at least in our culture, like trying to get my mom to eat healthy or my Tiaz eat healthy can be kind of difficult. Sometimes they're like, I want my sugar, I want this, right? And so it's like, once the word healthy gets in there, they're like, I don't want it anymore. Right. And so we're careful with the word healthy. We tend to lean into better-for-you, right? It's a better option than other products. I've been in food and beverage, consumer packaged goods all my life. That's how I did my career. That's what brought me to the United States. I'm originally from Monterey, Mexico. And I came here 17 years ago. I drove my 1999 Nissan Altima. That's what's up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that car. From, from, yeah. It was like the old model. It looked horrible. Not the new fancy, bigger version. I drove it from Monterey to Sacramento. Took me two and a half days, two speeding tickets. One in Chihuahua while crossing Chihuahua. You don't want to get stopped by the federales there. And so I landed in Sacramento with this Mexican startup that was commercializing and distributing powdered soft drink, kind of like Kool-Aid or Tang, but with Hispanic flavors. I was frescoes, you know, orchata, hibiscus, tamarind, all that stuff. Yeah, so that's how I started my food and beverage, CPG life adventure. And from there I've been progressing, you know, through the ranks and other different companies. Then I worked for Nestle and then Diamond Foods. And through this journey, I started to realize that, you know, that the Mexican brands that were being offered here, or the Latino or Hispanic brands that were being offered here were, number one, not updating their ingredient lists. They were still using a lot of, you know, high sodium, artificial ingredients, binders, fillers, a lot of junk. They were not innovating. They were just very comfortable just offering just your bland, approachable flavors and foods. And I think most importantly, also what I realized is that for new generations, and especially in a cultured Mexican like myself, they have lost their authenticity or their originality. I don't know if I can mention brands or not, but imagine these entire legacy brands that have been in the shell for 50, 60 years. For new generations, these are mainstream brands. They've lost their authenticity. They've lost their originality. And then they're not keeping up with the new trends. And so that's how I started ideating that there was a big- So you saw that in the market. You were like, okay, this is an interesting area. Okay, so then you're like, all right, cool. I see the space. And then how do you decide what product you're going to go for first, right? Absolutely, yeah. So here's what happens. So when I moved here, my mom Lupita would send me care. People don't know that the company name is after your mother. Yeah, the company's name is after my mom, Lupita. Well, a good son, she must love that, bro. Well, a Lupita, thank you. Yeah, I think she does. As a normal mom would send me care packages, right? Granted, a regular care package for my mom would be like a sweater, maybe some socks, a little money, that would be nice. My mom would send me hot sauce, a family recipe hot sauce that she made. This family recipe had been passed down to a single family member of each generation. Because I like to explain it this way. In Mexico, we don't inherit cars or jewelry or money. We're too poor. What gets passed down to us are our family recipes, right? That's how our family legacy passes on continually. You will always hear Mexicans say, ooh, I'm gonna make my aunts enchiladas, or there's a party, ooh, I'm gonna make my grandmother's mole, right? So those are the family recipes. That's how we pay homage and treat it. That's why they have the debt so big, right? Yeah, that's true. That's true. We do that in Peru, it's a turkey thing. So if you think about this, right? So Peru Thanksgiving, like in most places, this isn't a thing, right? And so we move to America, and then it's Thanksgiving, and no one in the family knows how to cook a turkey because no one's ever done that before. And so my grandma makes this, like, she made the best turkey on the planet, frankly. And it's this delicious recipe. And now you can Google Peruvian turkey recipes, and I think it's something they used to use with chicken, and then they just did a little something else, added some Coca-Cola to it, and so all these secret stuff. And now it's like, but it's the best turkey on earth. And to your point, it's like the grandma's recipe. Every time we make, oh, we gotta use grandma's recipe. Grandma's recipe, for sure, right? Yeah, and it's like an little index card somewhere. I think eventually these recipes with each generation get tweaked. Right, sure. Yeah, each person adds their own little bit. I remove the Coca-Cola, I was like, we're not doing that. We don't need that. We don't need that, we don't drink that anymore. And so was the first product the hot sauce? Yeah, so that was that. So that hot? Which one was it, which one? The red one, the original, the what we call the OG. By the way, they're amazing. Thank you so much. So for people listening, we were lucky enough to get all the products sent to us before this interview, which helps a lot. And Owen, who's our video guy over there, literally will not share it. He's like, they're all for me, and they're just gone. And the chips become really vessels for all the sauce. I was mixing the chipotle and the habanero, that was really good. But dude, fantastic product. So the story about the chips, that's how they came about, where? How do I eat the hot sauce? How do I sample the hot sauce? So I was sampling the hot sauce, exactly. But I mean, just to answer your question, it was surprising to me that when I started sharing my mom's hot sauce with- In the care packages. Right, yeah. And your friends. I'm the guy who brought the hot sauce to work, right? Like the workplace, like, ah. You want to try some homemade hot sauce? And so, dude, what's that bottle? Like, you know, immediately when they see like a funky looking bottle that doesn't have a label, it just like, it's like, what is that? I was like, oh, it's my mom's hot sauce. I put it on my salad or my sandwiches, I was like, can I have some of that? Like, yeah, yeah, it's spicy. And that's the other thing that I started to realize that I've seen change over the years is that the American palate has evolved tremendously. And in Mexico, we've always had that perception that here in the United States, you know, American people couldn't tolerate spicy foods, right? That's the Mexican thing. That sort of thing, oh, we like spicy food, right? And you know, Americans don't know. So I was kind of surprised to see that when I started sharing my mom's hot sauce, people started falling in love with it, literally falling in love with it. And, you know, every time I went back to Mexico to visit, like, they would intercept me on the hallway or like, dude, how are you going to Mexico? Can you tell your mom to make me a bottle? I'll pay or whatnot. And so it started evolving and growing that way, you know, until it became kind of unsustainable. Like, guys, I cannot take any more orders. My mom's working around the clock. Exactly, you know what I'm saying? I'm leaving clothes behind. The custom agents are getting suspicious, like, dude, what are you doing? Like, the last time you came here, you were bringing three, now you're bringing like 13 bottles. Like, what's up? Yeah, you're paying them off with hot sauce. You're like, here's some for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Vaya con Dios. Yeah. And so that was kind of like the, a little bit of ha-ha moment or like, there's something here. And I think there's some other conversation that happened. Well, that, the same thing, like, guys, I cannot be bringing hot sauce all the time. And so it's the quintessential, well, you have to bottle it, man. You have to make it. Sure. You're gonna, you know. It's so good. Everyone should experience this. It's so good. Everyone deserves it. And I think from there, the seed got planted. It was not immediate, right? But it was, it took years of the seed got planted and then the irrigation and the taking and then it started to grow into this idea of there's a possibility, right, of me doing this. And yeah, that's kind of how it all came about. And so then do you bring your mom into, like you fly her over to Sacramento. You're like, all right, let's go. Let's start playing with other flavors, maybe. Exactly right. And she's like, what are you doing? Well, so remember, it's all, it's all remember. You left your job for this? What are you doing? It's all remember this. This is a family recipe. Passed down to a single family member. My mom had to pass it down either to me or I have two sisters, right? So she was, she was already, she had already been approached by many people in Mexico, like other family members, friends, other people that had tried it, like Lupita. If you give me the recipe, I'll blow it up, I'll take it, I'll give you a share, blah, blah, blah. My mom is one of those persons that's super nervous. She gets super worried, super flustered. That's why she wears that curler wig because of her bangs and she gets super hot and the bangs keep falling on her head. And she's like, so anyway, see, so I did have to convince my mom. I had to call her and say, hey, I think I have this idea. I think I want to take a shot and commercializing and building the hot sauce. And so she's like, well, did you ask your sisters because maybe they wanted to do the hot sauce too, you know? Yeah, sure. Because she's being a mom, right? She's like, well, you, this is. I know. I haven't made my decision yet. Yeah, exactly. It's going to one of you, I don't know. What have you done for me lately, Eddie? They really are treating it like an heirloom, like a jewelry or something. Absolutely, and so lucky for me, my two sisters were not interested at all in like learning or trying to do anything with the hot sauce. Actually, they were kind of supportive, like, yeah, bro, you do it, you're the food guy, you're the CPG guy, go and run with it. But to your point, I did have to fly my mom in because it's different for her to, you know, over the phone, you know, tell me how to do it. Maybe couple bottles. No, by the way, she didn't have measurements. Right, she's all. This is like, so how much is that, mom, on the measurement? It's two wooden spoons. It's like, what does that mean? Well, the universal measurement. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the universal measurement of two wooden spoons. I don't know how many you would. So we had to bring her over and she spent a whole week and a half just like teaching me. We have pictures of her in my kitchen, you know, wearing her apron and teaching me how to prep the peppers and all that stuff. So yeah, and then making sure that we could scale it up. That's the thing about businesses. It's fine to have one good product, but you really have to have like four or five, six, right, amazing bangers. And it's hard to do it. It's one and one is hard enough. Never mind two, three, four, five. And so once you had that, I mean, you knew the CPG game and so did you raise capital? What was the capital looking like? Did you just put all your life savings into it? Yeah, so at first we bootstrapped. And I say we because I have my wife and I like to say she's the silent partner, right? And she's the boss. Yeah, she's not silent. Yeah, she's not silent. So no, at first, again, there was this, again, you know, to start a business and to take the dip and the dive into the CPG or a startup world, you need to have a little bit of, you know, confidence, have a little bit of naivete and be a little foolish, a little bit like it's a combination of everything. You know, my approach is like, I only need one hot sauce. I only need one skew. Like Tapatio is one, you know, Cholula for the main, it's one, you know, Tabasco. You just, you know, other, they have all the skews, but they have one, like one main. So I'll make it with one. That's the foolishness and naivete that kind of dive into with. And then, you know, you start receiving the feedback and then, so for us what happened, so we bootstrapped this from the get-go. So the company that I worked for had been sold and so I got some severance from that and I got a little bonus and I got some packages on that so that with my wife's blessing, she said, like, we can allocate that to starting the business, right? Let's see how it goes. Let's give it a year, you know? Famous last words. Like, let's give it a year, let's see how it goes. And so for us, I started the hustle right away. I mean, I immediately put my door-to-door sales rep cap which brought, that's how I started in the United States and it was easy for me, just, you know, waking up early, crackin' the dawn, five a.m. because I know that there's a very tight window for buyers or grocery store managers to receive you, right? Because then after six, it's go time. Like, they won't see anyone, they're super focused on the inventory and receiving orders and the customer and all that stuff. And so, you know, fairly quickly, we got a couple of accounts in San Francisco that jumped into the, yeah, we'll bring your hot sauce, your local and let's see, we like the story, let's see how it goes. And then from there, literally just because one account took it, then the competition wanted it because they didn't want it and so, and because I'm local and I was leaning in on the local stuff, local, local, local. And it kind of cut fire within the Bay Area, specialty, natural accounts, independently. And then all of a sudden, by the end of the year, the buyers were like, your product's doing really well, you know what it would work is if you had, you know, more, more other skews, other flavors and then you can do like a little brand block, you know, brand more, you extend your brand presence. And I'm like, can I curse? Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, fuck, I should know this, man. Yes, I'm from. I'm on the CPG. I'm on the CPG, I fucking know this, right? And so, yeah, and so that's helped. So later, that same year, we sold our first bottle in 2018. Late 2018, I was already, you know, launching our second skew, which is the salsa verde. Did your mom help in the creation of all these other skews? All of them are based, so the salsa verde is 100% my mom's recipe. And then that also kind of took off, but I think it was so, there was not a salsa verde in the format that I was offering and that also became a really good seller. And then I just started seeing the traction, right? And so I'm like, all right, all right. And so obviously, what's another popular flavor? And then that's chipotle and then habanero. And so chipotle my mom had done in her household, so same recipe. Habanero was the one that she didn't because habanero is actually a pepper that it's not grown in the Northern Mexicans, but I knew that habanero was catching up. I knew that habanero is hot as hell, and so a lot of people don't do exactly intimidating and don't want to try it because of that. So I wanted to make sure that using kind of like the same base ingredients. So if you look, except for salsa verde, the hot sauce chipotle and habanero will have vinegar, cumin, oregano, black pepper, and salt. And so that base gives it that tielupita flavoring. So yeah, so I did that with habanero, but I want to make sure that you could taste the habanero and enjoy it and that it didn't fatigue your taste buds and then you're like, I'm not gonna reuse it again. Exactly. So that's why we got creative with using carrots, diluting the heat with carrots and onions and mangoes and dates. And then so once you have these four, so once you're all ready to go, you go to your existing accounts, they lean back in, things are moving. You're probably out facing the cat building. Things are going great. Obviously I need to sample, right? And so on the sampling, I started to realize like, you know, I'm always buying like the tortilla chips to see that's how you sample hot sauce, right? And so I'm like, and every time I sold a bottle of hot sauce, they would take the bag, exactly. So I'm like, huh, all right, maybe there's something here, right? And also then I started to realize that there was this white space that I had noticed that like, hey, maybe Tila Pita can become more than just hot sauce. Maybe we can become this platform brand and kind of following my self-fulfilling needs, if you will, because at the end of the day, the hot sauce is self-fulfilling for me. I launched it because of the demand I've had in my network of friends and colleagues, but also for me, I'm a user and I couldn't find a hot sauce in the marketplace that tasted like my mom's hot sauce that had the right amount of heat and flavor and so in ingredients. So kind of following the same fulfilling needs, I decided, okay, Tila Pita, we're gonna become a platform brand and the next line of product is going to be cactus tortillas. No, it was cactus tortillas. Tortillas made with nopales. And was that hard, that just the innovation or the concept of that to get the taste right? Here it goes. In Mexico, they already have this offering. So every time I went to Mexico, I would be bringing cactus tortillas for myself. Why? Because the product didn't exist in the market here. I love tacos. I, here's the thing. I love tacos, but I'm always on a diet and fucking tacos and diet should never be in the same sentence. So in Mexico, we realized that by mixing cactus or nopales with the corn masa, we were able to reduce the calorie and carb content of the tortilla, which is like, that's the guilt part of the taco. It's not the insight. It's always at the shell. It was always a tortilla. And so I said, hey, maybe I can launch this with a Tila Pita branding cactus tortillas. And honestly, I first went with Whole Foods in Northern California with a forager and I talked to him and said, hey, I have this idea. Do you think, you know, if I make it, would Whole Foods be interested in this? Like, is this something that you would carry? And so I gave him a taste of product that I had brought from Mexico, which by the way, it was crappy in quality and still we're using binders and silicon sand, stuff that you wouldn't like to eat. But he tried and said, you know, if you can offer us something that is with simple ingredients, natural and tastes better than this, I think this could work. And yeah, and that's how we got to work on that project. And very quickly, I had an opportunity, there was a Consumer Discovery show here in LA in Santa Monica and Whole Foods buyer for Southern California and New York were visiting the show. They stopped, they tried a tortilla, they loved it and they immediately brought it. Like, it was like so innovative. They loved the nutritional fact that the attribute, the store behind cactus, which is a whole nother, you know, segment here. So they brought it first in Northern California. I even, to the point that Northern California felt like left out, like, dude, we're the ones who were collaborating on this. But yeah, they brought it immediately. And so if you can make, so check this out. I'm sampling the tortillas and someone tries these and they're like, this is already delicious. Are you planning to make tortilla chips? And I'm like, I wasn't planning to, but it was like, well, you know that you have tortillas. You just cut them in triangles and they become tortilla chips. And I was like, that's no shit. Yeah, but I have, yes, as a matter of fact, yes, I was planning to make tortilla chips. And so that very quickly, man, Telupta evolved into this platform, bro. Just on conversations and demand and hearing ideas from other people. So in a timeframe, you said you went from first skew in early 2018 to the end of 2018, you had the multiple hot sauce line. So two lines. Two lines. And then in 2019, I still only had hot sauce. So early in 2019, Chipotle hit the market. Avanero hit the market right around the middle of 2019. And towards the end of 2019, that's kind of when I was just like, all right, I'm working on the other two line extensions. Got it. And in terms of just, if we can take a bit of a detour here, I'm just curious about the growing patterns of the cactus that you're using. Because again, I know cactus in my mind grows fairly slowly. And so I don't know about the Nogales cactus if it's a little bit faster growing or anything, but like, how often can you harvest this cactus? Yeah, so exactly. So there's this types, there's different types of cactus, right? You have the Sahuaros, right? That are the ones that look like people. Yeah, take like 100 years to grow. Every summer, there's like nopales. Nopales is the one that have the pads, the flat pads. Some produce a prickly pear, which is also becoming really popular for drinking. It's good in beer. Yeah, also, absolutely. And so what's beautiful about cactus, I mean, to the point that for me when I was doing the market research, it's like, why hasn't anyone done this? I mean, it's like the typical Andy Warhol that drew the kind of soups like, well, I could have done that, but you didn't. It was Andy Warhol who did it. And so I'm like, so check this out, nopales. For us Mexicans is part of our heritage, culture, diet. Like if you go to a Mexican restaurant, the vegetarian option is gonna be nopales. It's even in our Mexican flag, the eagle eating the snake on top of the cactus. It's very meaningful for us. But nopales has the same superfood nutrients as kale, moringa, goji berries or kelp. So it's high in antioxidants, low glycemic, high in fiber, high in calcium, high in iron. But not only that, it's the most sustainable plant in the world. It grows in the desert. Needs very little water to grow. And nopales reach maturity every six months. So we can crop and harvest twice a year, right? And so crops are yielding less. I mean, this is gonna sound super shitty, man. I'm sorry, but global warming is real. Climate change is real. Crops are yielding less. And nopales is the only plant that thrives under that condition. So while we get our shit together, hopefully we're gonna get our shit together and save this planet and contribute with, you know, with sustainable products and reducing carbon footprint and all that stuff, we need to learn about this type of product, this alternative product that are gonna help us, you know, continue living a healthy, sustainable life. Your business in a way has become future proof just by virtue of the ingredients that you use. Exactly, right. And I know, and I kind of knew also that nopales is polarizing on its own. Like the cactus with spikes and it's green and how do you handle it? You process it and once you get out, it's slimy on the inside. So I knew that, you know, if I wanted to reach the mainstream consumer that I needed to teach it in an approachable way, put it as an ingredient in chips and tortillas, right? And then from there, hopefully spark more interest. And I'm really happy that, you know, well, back in 2018, I did get a lot of pushback just like on the education. And it's like, especially from investors, like how are you gonna educate or are you worried about this and that? To 2022, we're going into 2023 and there's this surge of cactus brands. Like it's amazing, there's a brand in New York called Mopalera and she uses the same cactus to do soaps and shampoos. There's the prickly pear water movement. There's like a brand in Boston that does prickly, cactus water. Vanessa Hudgens has her own brand called Kali Water with prickly pear. There's a snack in Chicago, a snack brand in Chicago that uses cactus and chia seeds and amaranth. When I first saw your brand, I'll give you some user research here and this is gonna probably surprise you, maybe I don't know, but basically when I looked at it the first time in, you know, before even really doing any research, I literally thought it was just like the color. I was like, oh, cactus is the color. I didn't think at all it was the ingredient. I was like, oh, this is a tortilla chip, like any other one I've ever had. And it's just the color is a little different. And the color of the logo on the chip Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what I thought it was. It's just like, is the color of cactus, that's why it's- They call it cactus, just to add a little flair to the bag, that's all, literally. Interesting, yeah. Yes, because to me, I think maybe in the tortilla chip category, like maybe the user's just conditioned if it's a chip, it's either a potato chip or a tortilla chip. A tortilla chip, yeah. What other chip can there be? Have you seen what I'm saying? Absolutely. And so there's some, maybe it's just after I was doing research, I was like, oh, this is interesting. Right, no, and to your point, there has been this movement of grain, going into grain free, right? And because it's better for your digestive system and there's other, you know, people have other autoimmune deficiencies that, you know, grain irritates them in their- It's even better for you because even the production. So even if you're getting like, even oat grain is, even if it's like in the vicinity of wheat at some point, any wind can bring it over. And now if you have a gluten free product using oat flour, that can go bad. We just had a conversation with someone who had to do a recall, even though they're doing oat flour, but there were strains of gluten coming from somewhere around the farm. And so even in that setting, you know, it's like, you can have paperwork, you can do all the tests. No, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, you have to be really careful, especially if you have certifications like we do, you know. And these certifying companies, when they're due, they're audit, they're really meticulous. They really want to make sure that there's no cross-contermination that they know the origin of the ingredients that we're coming from and all that stuff. So when I started thinking about tortilla chips, then also through conversation, it's like, should we go corn and cactus or should we go grain-free? And I think I chose going grain-free because that would allow me to open more doors. I think because from that, because you know, a corn chip is already, it's very known and it's very saturated. But if I went grain-free, which is still on the up-rise and adding the attributes of this novel ingredient, like the cactus, I thought that would help me open more doors. Yeah, and it seems to be working for you. And it has, absolutely. Are you nationwide with Whole Foods? We are, we are in five regions. How many regions are there? I think there are like 13, maybe, but we're in the good ones. Yeah, I'll be the best. I'm kidding me, Atlantic and Florida. Indiana. Indiana, Indiana. Midwest, I still love you guys. Coming soon. Coming soon. No, but we just got our chips because authorized in nine divisions of Kroger with three flavors. So they're bringing sea salt, hot sauce and chipotle. And we're gonna be in QFC, which is in the Pacific Northwest. Fred Meyer as well, Pacific Northwest. Ralph's, which is Southern California. We're gonna be in Fries, which is more of Nevada and Arizona. We're gonna be in Dillon's, which is the Kansas area. Then Houston, Dallas. We're really proud about that one. And, you know, big, big, big announcement. We just, our one skew of chips, our hot sauce flavor chip is gonna debut at Costco here in LA. Oh, nice, nice. 59 clubs. Wow, I'm gonna look out for that. Yeah, thank you. September. It's hard to get into Costco. Oh, well, exactly. Big production. So then the next question is, are you going to set up one of those, like, booths inside Costco? Absolutely. Yeah, that's what we're planning to do that, exactly. We wanna make sure that we're educating shoppers and their club members and that we're telling them about the attributes of cactus and why this product is better than other options out there for sure. So, yeah, we're really excited. We're nervous. We said, big production, big, big out-of-pocket. We had to design a new bag because we're gonna go on a 12-ounce bag. Right, it's gotta be Costco-sized. Palette, palette, yeah. Palette ready to display palette with the things. And so, we're a small, but mighty team of four and we're super, you know, we're stretched thin, but we're really focused. And now, are you raising capital or are you still bootstrapping? No, we're raising capital. So, we were able to bootstrap, you know, for the first couple of years and then we were like, okay, wait. This is becoming really serious, we do need more. So, we did, you know, traditionally, we did our friends and family and then from there we did a pre-seed and so now we're doing a seed, right? Right on. Are there any other things you're working on? Like, are there any categories that you see as interesting that maybe you wanna expand into? Right, right. Of desserts or, obviously the chip aisle seems, you've dominated, but is there more there? So, I think with chips, well, there's a lot of innovation still to do within the lines, right? Two ounce, so a snack size to go like into the delis and convenience stores. Oh, you mean like the sauce? No, I'm talking chips. Okay. You know, it's all about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, got it, got it, got it. But same with hot sauces, we... Yeah, Owen would love that, it's good. Crush, you would crush a little two, three ounce or? Oh, yeah. Well, that's exactly right. So, for example... And a little toothpaste spot? I can just see you going, a little cheese get there, like a little... This is my to-go salsa, it says Owen on it. Or you can go really big. So, if you go to Costco, Canada, Costco, Canada, this is one of those things that... Costco, Canada. Is bringing a 32 ounce bottle of hot sauce. So, earlier in the episode, you talked about how Americans' palates have changed over the years. So, in my head, when I think of Canada, I think of their proclivity to even less heat and... Maybe more, maybe their intensity. Well... There's a big Indian population in Canada. Yeah, there is, there is. So, everything that starts in the States eventually makes it to Canada, all trends and all the like. So, remember, Canada is also really cold and so hot sauce gives you that perception of heat. So, I was really surprised when I started this, we got requests from Finland and Norway and Denmark. So, we shipped the Lupita directly to the Nordic countries. Not something I would have guessed. No, absolutely. And so, what they tell us is, they're the ones who say that their food is kind of bland. True, true. And that they're, you know, they've discovered it with spicy foods and hot, that the flavors come more and more alive. And then, you know, it complements the winter, right? If there's anything that makes them sweat during the winter. So, I'm guessing in Canada, it might be the same, but there is a spicy trend happening also in Canada. People are, I think it's a worldwide thing. So, are they connected enough where you getting your hot sauce into Costco Canada will eventually help you get into the US? Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. That's what we planned. That's what we're hoping for, right? Yeah. But again, like you mentioned, getting into Costco is really hard. They're very picky, they're very meticulous. I mean, talk about restricted shelf space, right? Everything is merchandised by the pallet and you have so much square food that you can allocate. So, our idea is to, you know, hopefully mature our chips here in the 59 clubs and then next year ask for, you know, can we expand into 150 clubs or 200 clubs and then maybe on year three, can we go national, right? But the thing, it's growing smart and at the pace that we can afford, right? You know, growing this fast without direction, you can lose focus and it doesn't help if we go nationally at Costco and the product doesn't move. When you think about the future of Tia Lupita, are you thinking of potential partnerships because when I think of hot sauce, our chips or tortillas, obviously there's a lot of brands that you might be able to partner with or where you could pair your offering with theirs. But then again, there's the route where you could just do it yourself like you have with the tortilla chips and the tortillas and I'm not sure if you've explored that option with anything else. Yeah, no, absolutely and I'm always open for partnerships and helping other brands. This is gonna sound super weird but it's true, two years ago, it was still during pandemic times for April Fool's Day, we decided that we were gonna make an announcement that Tia Lupita is now going into ice cream and we're gonna do flavored salsa verde ice cream. Some people do that. So flavored chipotle ice cream, habanero. And so I posted it on social media and on LinkedIn and it was such a polarizing post that people were like, this is amazing. When is it coming out? Or it's like, oh, I hope this never happens. But the positives were I'll pace the negatives so much. And it's like, guys, April Fool's, we're not doing this. Literally next month, double rainbow ice cream in San Francisco reached out to us like, we used your chipotle in one of our chocolate chip ice cream and it tastes delicious. Can you come and taste it? And so I went and tasted it and it was amazing, dude. The chocolate chip habanero chipotle. And it was amazing. And they launched it, dude. They launched it this year. And it's been raised with publications and you got featured on the Today Show. Like, it's amazing. That's phenomenal. But yeah, it's what started us a joke. It's a good PR hit. Yeah, exactly. Became a collaboration and so it's stuff like that. So yeah, for sure. But there's also the opportunity of, we continue to expand. We wanna be this better for you Mexican platform brand, and so salsa matcha is the other one that we're launching. We're really excited about salsa matcha. Salsa matcha is the Mexican take on chili crisp, chili oil, chili crunch, right? Which is taking the United States by surprise. This trend, they're putting fly by jing on ice cream. And so I saw that there's all this craze for chili oil, but it has this Asian flair, Asian taste. So I'm like, exactly. So it's like, in Mexico, we have this. We have our own, but it's regional. In Mexico, it comes from the state of Veracruz. And so, but more regional foods are making it to other parts of Mexico. So it helped that last time I went to Mexico, I went to my parents house, they had salsa matcha. It's like, what is this? I have never had it in my life. It's like, oh, it's salsa matcha. It's oil with pepita, sunflower seeds, and some have peanuts, some have cranberries, and you can put it on anything. And I'm like, and I taste it, I was like, this is delicious. That's one of the other things that I think with Telo Pita becoming this platform brand is we can introduce other regional foods from Mexico that even within Mexico, we don't know about that we can bring them here to the United States and we can find them at use. I mean, I was in Minneapolis last week and we were at a food show next to our booth. It was this gluten-free brownie company. And so I grabbed one of their chocolate brownies and literally poured salsa matcha on top of it and took a bite. And it's like, everybody was like, what are you doing? And I was just like, I feel it's gonna taste good. And lo and behold, it blew us all away. It gave an additional butteriness and spice and on a level, it's just amazing. And it had the pepitas and so it gave it some crunch too. And it was amazing. What about a restaurant? You ever think about a restaurant, just a, because I think for your business and CPG is like the closer you can get to the customer, the better. And so the feedback loop becomes everything, but it's hard when you scale, right? It's like at the beginning, it's you doing the tastings and at some point it's not you and then someone's doing it at Costco, but it's already like the product is proven by the time you get to Costco or nationwide. And so do you ever think about doing like a restaurant where you could- Or something. I mean, I did at once, but it's like, take it easy Hector, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. It's a lot. It's a different animal. It's a beast. But to your point, I think a logical next step for Tielupita is also to start dipping into the food service. So making sure that our hot sauce, we have it like on a gallon or a sachet or like something like so that people, we can sell it to delis or taquerias or airlines, Delta Airlines, the other day came to us at a show and it's like this chip on a, you know, it would be amazing. And so we have all this great stuff, but it's, it's again, we need to do it at our own pace, right? Yeah. Because- How do you view your social media strategy, right? And so, right? Cause it's kind of tough for like, really your business is selling to businesses. And so you're a CPG company, but at the same time there's like brands so building the brand becomes your Instagram, social media is the only way of doing that. And so how do you, with the changing, it's changing every day now. How do you view that? No, I just thought the same thing. I just, we just hired our online marketing and community manager, because before it was, it was me. Yeah. With what I know doing- April Fool's jugs. Freaking Instagram, exactly, you know. Which, you know, to be fair, worked. Well, yeah, exactly, but you know, we could, we could be doing so much, but I was born in 1977. I know I don't look like it. But, so I missed being a millennial by three years. So I don't know how to just, you know, to connect with millennials or Gen Z. So I knew I needed to hire someone from that generation so that she can connect through her with the brand to our tribe, right? And so we're super excited with her and she's done a fantastic job. And so that was something that I needed to invest on, right? Like that we needed for sure. That's what we're trying to prove that these tired legacy Hispanic brands or Mexican brands are not connecting with the new generations. They connected with the boomers and all that stuff, but with the new ones, they don't. They lack social media connectivity and then just on the ingredients, on the marketing and everything, right? And, you know, a buyer, you know, I think an Albertans buyer told us like, those products are just collecting dust on the shelf now. We need to revitalize this Hispanic set. And we need to bring brands like Tielopita, like La Monarca, Agua Bonita, Somo, Chusa, Nemi. I mean, I'm leaving a whole bunch out, but there's a new wave of Mexican-inspired brands that are gonna revitalize this set. When you think about like, you know, your journey, just mentally leaving your job at some point, taking the leap, having your mom fly, all this stuff, what is like either the hardest story you can share or, you know, just like a moment where it was like, okay, things are real now. Like this is real now. This is so much bigger or different than I had thought. Yes, I think, you know... Let me get you a drink, hold on. When I started, I was doing the hot sauce myself in a commercial kitchen, right? My mom had taught me how to do it. And so I was the one who, and so I could only do seven cases of hot sauce every time I went to the commercial kitchen. So the moment that I decided the orders, the velocities, I about paste what I can do here. And I went to a co-packer and it was nerve-wracking because had to give them the recipe. Exactly, and then there's NDAs and all that stuff, but you tweak something and it's something different and that goes whatever. So trusting this person with the recipe and then... That had been handed down for generations. And then you have to make compromises because now that you're gonna industrialize the recipe, well, you know, there's stuff that you need to, that can happen. For example, my mom would use fresh jalapenos, you know, when you go to that scale, imagine the stemming in jalapeno. So we had to compromise that we can use puree, which comes from the same, it's the same, but it's just somebody processed it and pureed it and then now where are you gonna use it? So stuff like that, that is like, okay, this is, you know, am I compromising too much? Is this gonna work? Are people gonna like it the same, et cetera, et cetera. It's stuff like that, that you talk to other people and you need to bounce it off with other founders and other people that have gone through the same journey. I think someone just told me, hey, progress, not perfection, right? And then I think that clipped on me and then I kind of started to go and I started to let loose. But there's, dude, a whole bunch more, like if you bring a bottle of tequila, man, I would, you have four more hours, raising money, getting all the struggles of missing shipments, not getting orders. Like it's a whole thing, everything's a stress, but it's good, it's good. Keeps you sharp. Absolutely, absolutely. Nobody said that it was easy, right? Because if it was, everybody would do it. That's so true. Hector, thanks for coming on the podcast, brother. Really appreciate it. Thanks for sharing your story. That's it? I was just getting warmed up. No, I'm kidding, no, no, no, thank you guys so much, man, I appreciate it. It was a lovely time. Thank you for allowing me to tell my journey and I also wish you guys good luck on the podcast. And send me the deck. Send me the deck. Absolutely, man, we'll do it for sure. Fundraising season is here. Yeah, fundraising season is here. Well, it has to before the recession, I guess. That's true. How are you thinking about the recession? Are you doing certain things internally? Yeah, that's why we're raising and we want to make sure that we have enough money in the bank so that whatever happens, yeah. But as other brands are struggling, we are thriving and so it's... You're the category leader, it seems. Yeah, yes, for now. Yeah, keep it, baby. Hopefully, yeah, we will. Thanks, man, I appreciate it. Appreciate it. Hey, you, yeah, you listening. Thank you so much for making it to the end of the episode. Make sure to follow us on Instagram, subscribe on YouTube and we cannot wait to see you next week for another great episode. Cheers.