 I am James Swanick and today we are talking to Jenny Unglis who is 52 who lives on the north coast of Northern Ireland and Jenny runs a proofreading business and as of today Jenny is 124 days alcohol-free which is incredible and Jenny was one of our Project 90 clients and has a very interesting story to share about her alcohol-free journey. Jenny so great to have you here how you doing? I'm great James thank you it's lovely to be here. What does 124 days alcohol-free feel like first of all? It feels great and if you told me four months ago that I would be four months alcohol-free I would probably have laughed in your face. Why would that have been so ridiculous a notion do you think? Because I think I had tried for so long to kick the habit largely by myself and I just couldn't do it I just couldn't do it on my own and that's why I eventually reached out to Project 90 and it's not an exaggeration to say it's changed my life. Tell us a little bit about your life if you would Jenny give us a little bit of context. Okay so I grew up in Northern Ireland went to England to study at University ended up staying there worked in the civil service worked in Parliament for quite a number of years got tired of politics eventually set up my own career coaching business which I ran for just over a decade then I got tired of London tired of the rat race and came back home to the North Coast and Northern Ireland where I've now settled met my husband got married and within about a year of our getting married pliable stagnos with multiple myeloma which is incurable cancer of the blood and bone marrow. So the next five years really became a roller coaster of chemotherapy radiotherapy stem cell transplants more chemotherapy until eventually it became clear that that his body just wasn't responding to treatment anymore and sadly he died in May of this year at home with me and that really was the point of which I realized my life to go in in one of two ways I could keep pouring booze on my head in a in an ineffectual attempt to deal with the grief and everything else or I could find a way of moving on that was more positive and more worthwhile and so that really was a big turning point for me that was the point of which I knew I needed to reach out and get help and support otherwise I really would end up in a complete mess thank you for sharing that with us Jenny you said that you were married within you were married and then within a year he was diagnosed is that correct that's right yeah take us back to that time if you will and you know tell us about married life for the first year and then when you both receive that news what impact did that have on you yeah um it came out of the blue completely I mean we'd we got married we'd just literally moved into our dream home which I'm still in um everything was looking loosey and Clive went for a a standard check-up just an annual check-up with the doctor and his blood results came back slightly iffy and the doctor said I think we'll get this checked out and we've had lots more tests and it was diagnosed he was completely asymptomatic at that point um so had it not been for the rigor of our our doctor they probably wouldn't be picked up until much later um the fact that we knew from day one it was uncurable and we were really just playing a game of time it was difficult um it was a bit I suppose it was a sort of damocles hanging over our head from the beginning um it was a case of not knowing how long we would have not knowing what kind of quality of life we would have um and that was difficult and if I'm honest my coping mechanism was often afterfall which was not a good coping mechanism but that's that's what I often used just to I suppose what lots of people use it for just to to numb the edges really how old were you both when when Clive was diagnosed um I was in my late 14s Clive was older than me he was 18 years older than me so he was uh 65 um he actually used to be I shouldn't tell you best he actually used to be my teacher at school he taught me classics at school he was a very young teacher and um I haven't seen him since I left school and when I came back here to Northern Ireland we completely randomly met up and and the rest was history so it's I suppose it's quite a romantic story really did he charm you or do you did you charm him well like every other girl at school I'd have the classic teenage crush on him so but um yeah we charmed each other we had lots in common we both love love um language words cricket Tottenham Hotspur so we had lots of music we had lots in common um he was just a great great man a legend really irreplaceable completely irreplaceable um but you know that's something that that I am working through um there are some very very difficult days but again I know that those days would be made more difficult if alcohol was still in the mix and at least I am facing what I have to face with a much better degree of clarity than than I would have found before so um you said Clive passed in May of 2020 yes um just to take us through the last um six months maybe maybe six months to a year and just maybe just describe what that was like for you and for him right up until the the day of his of his passing uh if you're willing to share of course um yeah so it was probably about a year before he died that it became it became clear that that the chemotherapy he was on just wasn't working anymore they tried him on a few different versions I mean I have to say we had good standard care we have we had wonderful care but his body just wasn't responding to treatment so the last year he just apparently became less and less well um by early in this year he was in and out of hospital several times and then of course lockdown occurred so the last three weeks when he was in hospital I wasn't even able to go and visit him that was very difficult um and at that point I actually rang his consultant and said look Clive's not getting better is in said no I said how long has he got he says the talking weeks so at that point I said um I just want him home so we brought him home um um at that stage it was just palliative care and he had three weeks at home with me before he died um and that was that was precious time um we were in lockdown obviously so no one could come and visit and in one way that was sad because they were friends he didn't get to see again and in another way selfishly it was nice because it was just we had carers in and I done that sort of thing and doctors and nurses but most of the time it was just us so you know we had those last few weeks together um and that was that was important to me hmm I imagined for him also yeah yeah he got to see his beloved garden he got to listen to music he got to watch a bit of cricket unfortunately there wasn't much bought on so that was a shame but um yeah we just um you know he gradually got weaker and weaker um and uh he was in bed the whole time but he was um in good spirits really until the last couple of days he wasn't in pain when he wasn't pain we had good pain control so um um you know he slipped away at the end just holding my hand so it was it was difficult but it could have been so much worse so yeah what things did he say to you or did you say to him before his passing um that stick out to you that stick in your memory something that maybe he shared with you something that you shared with him uh a lot of people you know who've suffered death in their family a lot of times they don't get an opportunity to say goodbye it happened suddenly you had um you know a long time real I mean I guess you say five years but probably in the in the last three weeks you had three weeks so was there something poignant or deliberate or intentional that you and he did together or said to each other um looking back we probably didn't maybe talk as much as we could have but I think I suppose in one way everything that needed to be said have been said as you say we'd have a a long time to become accustomed we knew what was going to happen we talked about the the practical arrangements on his wishes and that sort of thing a little obviously everything changed because it came with anyway um but the one thing I remember him saying to me in the last few days was he just said Jenny keep going um I think yeah that was something that that stuck with me and has stayed with me and a large part of my motivation for getting alcohol free and and trying to become that better version of myself really is is because I know that's what what Clyde would have wanted and I know that he would have been so proud of me so yeah keep going was what he said yeah beautiful I want to actually with your permission um read out an email that you sent to me on Sunday February 9th of 2020 oh my goodness yeah I have a for those listening I have a an email list a newsletter I write an email a day a daily a daily email some people love it some people are like get me away from this guy I don't want an email a day in my inbox but for those who are interested in the alcohol free lifestyle people get an email a day from me and on um Sunday February 9th you emailed me in response to um an email that I wrote which was called sorry alcohol this isn't working out I feel frustrated when I'm around you irritable you disrupt my sleep etc etc so I was actually writing like a letter to alcohol and you actually responded to that um and I was actually in Mexico at the time I was on a business mastermind um this is before COVID the COVID shutdown and uh yeah your email says I'll just read it here it says uh hi James thank you for this my situation is that my husband is dying of cancer uh I think that a drink helps me deal with it but obviously it doesn't I need to enjoy the moments we have so I'm just curious you seemed at that point to have an idea that alcohol wasn't serving you wasn't serving your best interests would you just uh maybe elaborate on that a little bit as to what you were starting to come to terms with or starting to realise around that time in February I mean I've known for a long time before that really that alcohol wasn't serving me and I've been trying to to kick it probably for 18 months or so um and with I suppose varying degrees of success but ultimately limited success so I would have a sober stretch and then I drink again and that cycle would be repeating itself I was getting to the stage where I was having longer periods of not drinking but always ended up going back to it um you know eventually that you know and when I it's interesting I don't even I don't mean I don't remember that email I don't remember I knew I had contacted you before long before I joined up the project 90 I don't remember that it was in February but um um yeah I I knew I needed to tackle it and I was struggling to find an effective way to do that like looking back now from the vantage point of four months and just having finished the project 90 first stage and so on um I can see exactly what I was missing and it was the support the community and the accountability and I didn't have that I had friends around me who knew I was struggling five knew I was struggling although he could see I was making some progress but honestly people around you however much they love you if they don't have the problem with alcohol that you have they just don't get it um however supportive they want to be they don't understand and and people can be so well meaning but you know friends might say to me something like well why don't you just try harder I actually went to my doctor at one point for some help and support and he said well why why don't you just have one drink um you know there was no understanding that for some people you know one's too many and 20s not enough um so the thing that that project 90 gave to me was being in a group of people where you know that the the baseline for everyone was we are all trying to uh reconfigure our relationship with alcohol that was the given for everyone so everyone regardless of where they were in their alcohol journey or regardless of what stage of rock bottom they had got to um everyone had that same basic common aim which meant in fact that much of the time we spent on group calls we weren't actually talking about alcohol at all we're talking about all sorts of other things and that again was what was so precious to me that that on one level we were almost putting the whole alcohol thing to one site because that was a given that was why we were there so let's talk about other things let's talk about how we get more clarity let's talk about how we develop ourselves let's talk about things we're struggling with in other aspects of our lives and um just that sense of community and common purpose was the thing that I was missing um and looking back it means to see that but it took me a long time to realize that yeah it's um it's funny how people um we normalize alcohol don't we like we normalize it it's part of the social fabric it begins when we're children when our parents say to us oh no you can't drink alcohol now you can have it when you're older it's almost like a rite of passage and then the rite of passage turns into well it's just something that you do this is just the norm and then it comes into something that people uh you know offer to you because it's to be a good host you know if you're at a dinner party you say oh can I get you some wine can I get you a beer and it just becomes normalized doesn't it it's just normalized and so it's very challenging um to break out of that societal matrix if you like especially when you're um later on I mean I'm in my um mid 40s now heading towards 50 you're in your early 50s that's like 25 30 years of social conditioning or actually practicing consuming alcohol it's actually a lifetime of social conditioning so where there's particular particular times where you found it really challenging to break out of that social conditioning where maybe people were drinking you didn't want to and then you towed the line and you and you did or maybe there was something that happened that was like you had a breakthrough you want to just speak to that yeah it's interesting I mean you're so right about the social conditioning I mean I was brought up in a in a family that that didn't drink um so it was probably um not even when I went to university because I was I was too much of a swat to drink too much at uni but when I joined the civil service um that would have been the sort of early 90s very very big drinking culture and then I moved into parliament and if I thought the drinking culture was bad in the civil service let me tell you in parliament it was off the scale you know subsidized bars bars open all day drink at lunchtime absolutely drink after work completely you know it just was so embedded in the culture and I'm not saying that everyone who works in parliament is you know is a drunk but for anyone who had a tendency to drink by lot it was just made so easy so that was probably where my my problems began really um the interesting thing is that that's when I move back over here my social circle here it is not a heavy drinking circle my friends I mean my friends are the kind of people who'll have a glass of wine or two if they're out for dinner but they're not drinkers they would be what anyone would call a normal drinker so I was probably the the exception you know I was the one who would be having the the two extra glasses of wine I would be the one who would have more than everyone else um so I wasn't under social pressure in my environment here over the last number of years um so I can't even use that as an excuse to be honest and I realized that you know certainly through project 90 lots of people have often said and lots of people do say this that it's the the social situations that can be the most difficult and can be the most challenging um I have to put my hand on my heart and say that wasn't the case for me because that wasn't what my social environment was like um so I don't even have that as an excuse but I think I increasingly just came to use it as I said as a coping mechanism as as what I've received to be a coping mechanism to take the edge off painful feelings and painful situations and what have you come to learn now about alcohol taking the edge off and dealing with painful situations that it is at best um a temporary fix and at worst um something which actually just makes everything worse you know alcohol doesn't take pain away it just adds to it by the shame the guilt the hangover the not being fully present um you know it brings nothing it adds nothing it serves you in no way whatsoever you um you emailed me or you and I emailed back and forth a few times actually between February and when you actually enrolled in project 90 there's an email here from you later Tuesday I'm just going to share just a couple things in here which is just what you want why you wanted to quit alcohol um if you're willing of course there's nothing I didn't know what you're going to say well you just you very very simply said the two most important things for me would be first and foremost to stay sober to me that underpins everything else uh if you think of an inverted triangle my sobriety is the tip of that triangle without it everything else is bound to topple I'm willing to pretty much do anything to keep my sobriety intact so that was the first one and then the second one was secondly um you said secondly I need to plan and implement the next stage of my life I have a pretty good idea what I want to do it is entrepreneurial but I would be so glad of other's support encouragement and intellectual input obviously underlying everything is my need to process my grief which I know will take a long time Clive was the light of my life and he is irreplaceable but the two priorities above are I believe things that will help me to do that and then you went on a little bit more from there but I guess my question is um did you feel do you feel like you're on that path now because you said back in June your your priorities were to stay alcohol free use the word sober but um I like to use the word alcohol free and then secondly planning and implementing the next stage of your life so that email was sent to me June mid-June um do you feel like you're you're on that on those parts yes absolutely um you know not only have I been alcohol free since the 7th of June I think it was but um I'm I'm in a mindset now where I I just don't see myself ever lifting a drink again um I know people often say don't think about forever think about the next 90 days think about the next six months whatever but I have gained so much in and from the last four months that that I see no way at all in which alcohol can serve me and I see no need for it at all I have no desire for it in terms of what have the last four months looked like um yeah I've I've just made I've done so many things James that I would never ever have done a because I wouldn't have had the focus the energy uh and and b because I just wouldn't have been in the right place to do it so for example I've recently set up my own proofreading business with a business partner um I wouldn't have had the energy to do that um I have I'm currently in the middle of training to be a Samaritan which is a a UK charity which provides a 24 7 listening service to people who are anxious stressed even suicidal it's something I've been interested in for a long time but I've never have been in a position to offer that kind of support to anyone else given the mess that I was in um I started doing studying for a diploma uh actually in trauma and addiction counseling because it's just something that through my own experience really interests me and I would never have had the stamina to do that level of academic study on top of setting up the new business and everything else so my life has changed unrecognisably just in four months which makes me you know despite the fact that I am and I suspect will be for a long time processing grief um it makes me excited about my future in a way that I didn't think I would be capable of being and and that is you know the foundation for all of that is being alcohol free without a doubt obviously when you join our community here the the focus is to get you to rewire your brain around alcohol so you're powerfully choosing the alcohol for your life but you also said there that your main focus or one of those main focuses and what will remain so is processing grief so how was the the community that you were in for those 90 days within project 90 how did that community help you to process your grief not so much quitting alcohol but actually processing your grief I think that was one of the things that was most fundable the group where just fantastically supportive everyone has their own challenges there are other people in the group who were dealing with children with special needs dealing with elderly parents who needed extra care everyone had you know everyone has something in their life that is a challenge and the group was such a safe place where you could share really quite personal feelings and thoughts and you know tears and vulnerabilities and everyone was was so supportive and just many of the lessons that we were taught were so helpful to me one of the things which was most helpful to me specifically in processing grief was something that Kevin coach Kevin said to me very early on which was that life is a series of meetings and partings and I just find that a really helpful and comforting way to look at it sometimes people talk about grief in terms of well one door closes and another one opens and that sort of thing and I find that very final but the idea of you know life is a series of meetings and partings I find a very constructive way to to process some of my feelings so specifically in terms of some of the advice suggestions and approaches that I was given and then more generally in terms of just the supportiveness and open-armedness if that is the word of the group it was somewhere I could come and not be afraid to be vulnerable not be afraid to show myself there were there were times on group calls when I you know I cried lots of people do I always say you're not a proper member of project 19 so you've cried on screen but that's just a demonstration of you know of how how safe a place it is to share and that was something that really really gave me a lot of a lot of emotional support I also want to acknowledge you because you live in Northern Ireland and of course the time difference between Northern Ireland and many of the the group coaching calls that we have is pretty big I have a I'm on a weekly call on Thursday evenings which is Friday morning for where I am at the moment in Australia and what time did those did my weekly group call start Jenny for you what time was it in Northern Ireland when they started for me that was one o'clock in the morning and sometimes we didn't wrap up until nearly three yeah yeah it's supposed to be an hour call but we just got talking didn't we well you know there were times you could have gone on all night to be honest I mean they were great calls but um yeah I I made a commitment at the very beginning and I made this commitment to Kevin that I would attend every single group call now I did miss a couple of the Thursday night ones um because there were a couple of times when I had to have an early start on the Friday morning so but um I mean I was doing a group call Monday Tuesday Thursday Friday and then my one-to-one coaching call with Kevin on a Wednesday um why did I do that um not just to get my money's worth um I suppose it's partly I am quite an all-in-nothing person but I knew that if this is going to stick and I was going to make this work I had to give it everything I had I was going to throw the kitchen sink at it because I kind of felt if this didn't work for me nothing was going to work for me so I I knew that I wanted to give it everything um and that's what I did and I think I think that should mean good stead yeah you you said to me a couple weeks ago that when when Clive died you had a choice you could keep pouring booze down your throat and sink into a spiral of despair or you could find a way forward yeah it certainly from my from my inspection it seems like you have you definitely chose moving forward especially demonstrated by the fact that you were up at 1 a.m to attend um one of those weekly group calls I had to remind myself of that often when I saw you there I'm like oh it's the middle of the night there but it's fascinating isn't it like even myself you know all human beings will come up with excuses as to why we can't do something or why something won't work or someone won't like me if I do this I mean even I at the moment I'm going through a process of securing a literary agent for my upcoming book um which is aimed at helping people to quit drinking and it's got to the point it's a couple days ago it was at the point we're right begin let's now reach out to my extensive network and try to attract and secure a literary agent and I drew up a list of all the names of acquaintances and friends and you know people in my network that I've I've accumulated over you know a decade or so 20 years living in in America quite frankly and I still felt this kind of like natural um pain in myself like oh I don't want to ask for help I don't want to like reach out to that person I haven't really spoken to them in a year or so and now I'm the one time I am reaching out I'm asking for something or I feel awkward about that it's incredible and I'm usually fearless when it comes to that but um but even me like I felt that kind of like story I was starting to create stories and I had self judgments and then I had fear and then I thought I'm going to spend all this time doing it and what if it doesn't work out and I don't get a literary agent and I've spent all this money and time putting into you know into this project um so that's coming up to me and I coach people on this stuff on how to overcome this stuff you know I'm so it's a very natural feeling but um but you actually just went you know what it's start James's weekly call starts at one in the morning in Northern Ireland and you could have come up with a hundred different reasons and stories why not to attend and yet you still did so what did you learn maybe about yourself in making that choice and sticking to it um well I mean I suppose the whole purpose for me of um of going all in or leaning in clearly as as you guys would say was I supposed to prove to myself that I did have stickability you know that I and also it's funny one of the things which we talked a little bit before about being alcohol free giving you much more clarity one of the things that has been that has become very very clear to me over the last few months is that one of the things that's really really important to me is integrity of my word so if I say I will do something I will do it if I say I will be somewhere I will be there um and it's actually the thing which pisses me off most of my other people when other people aren't like that it's probably the thing that disproportionately irritates me and maybe that's because it's something that's so important to me and that would not have been the case when I was drinking you know everything fell by the wayside um and I constantly let people die but as that clarity came through for me I realized how important that is and therefore having made the commitment to Kevin at the beginning that I was going to be on every call I was going to be on every call um and you know that's notwithstanding the fact that yeah sometimes it was very late at night or whatever but you know what James I looked forward to those calls so much especially in the early days they were lifeline to me um you know we were in lockdown I just lost my husband I couldn't visit friends I couldn't see people um and I'm just having that that community of people who were all rooting for each other you know the calls in the very very early days as you know I'm it took me ages to get going on Marco Polo and start posting other videos and things but I'm actually quite shy um and in the early days the group calls were kind of oh god I hope Kevin doesn't ask me anything and and you know within a few weeks I was actively looking forward to the calls and weekends where oh I'm just gonna have to sit and watch 25 Marco Polo's over and over again because there aren't any group calls so they became something that was a really important part of the fabric of my life um yeah I love that and now that I'm in the alumni group and I only have two calls a week and it's you know it's not that I didn't have other things to do um I've been very busy with the business and was other things but you know they say don't you that that your real your your actions show what your real priorities are you can say something's a priority but actually it's only a priority if you do it yeah this was a real priority for me yeah and I felt that and I sensed that and I saw that certainly you know visually every week when you were when you turned up to my weekly call at 1 a.m northern island time so again I just want to acknowledge you for your commitment and for being on those calls it's such an uncommon hour um and I also want to thank you for um you know inspiring other members as well because you know it doesn't require a big inspirational speech it can just simply be sharing what is going on with you at the moment it can be you saying I'm really struggling at the moment or you can say I've had a really crappy week and that inspires someone it inspires someone else to be able to share about their week which makes them feel better and then that triggers conversation and it triggers healing and it triggers being out sometimes being given the freedom to vent um it's remarkable um how many times I see you know grown adults because most of us are in that you know the youngest member I think we had while you're going through was probably in her late 30s most of the members are late you know 40s 50s 60s um it's amazing when you see people who've never really had an opportunity to just be able to share what's going on for them in a safe space first of all just to be able to share at all because sometimes we're lonely or isolated and there's just no one to talk these things through but then secondly to be able to share in a place where people don't criticize or condemn or make you wrong for whatever it is that you're sharing yeah so in you doing that and you sharing and you being so open and vulnerable about what was going on with you especially with you processing grief um regarding clive that was huge for so many other members I know and they were all touched and inspired by you and and you have left a lasting impact on those people so thank you for that Jenny I think one of the things for me that that was really interesting and valuable about the whole process is when people do share and I think it's one of the reasons why you and Kevin always encourage people to post on Marco Polo as well when someone shares something you never know what someone else is going to take from it and what someone else takes from it and gains from it may absolutely not necessarily even be the central point that you're making but but people will will take their own interpretation or or their own nugget of wisdom from something that someone else posts or says or shares and to me that's the great value of of the group process you know one one person in a group meeting of nine people could share something and each of the other eight people could take something completely different but equally valuable from what that person shares and to me that was the value of the group interactions yeah well Jenny keep going as clive said keep going that's your mantra I suspect for sure yeah yeah and what does just finally what does keep going look like for you keep going looks like making a success of the business carrying on with my diploma which I hope to finish before Christmas and then I've been accepted to do a an msc in psychology which I'll do by distance learning with an English university which will start in January and I will have to write a thesis as part of that and I will probably it's early days yet but I'm I'm interested in the area around people who have had a problem without the fall quite often have issues around career and purpose which are different from people who haven't necessarily had that struggle I think it's a mixture of regret for wasted time wanting to make amends wanting to give back in some way and so I'm quite interested in in some some work around the area of particularly helping people who possibly felt they've wasted a chunk of their life or not lived it to their best ability because of afterfall helping those people move forward and that's sort of area I'd like to do a bit of research in so yeah lots lots on the horizon I love it and congratulations it all sounds very exciting just to let the listeners or viewers know I've actually experienced Jenny's proofreading business which is amazing I'm coming out with a well actually Jenny proofread my book proposal which was amazing thank you so much and then again Jenny also proofread my gratitude journal which is should be coming out early 2021 which is a daily journal to help tap into our unconscious and rewire limiting beliefs and get us and to reduce stress and anxiety so thank you so much for that as well what what is the name of that business and where can folks listening find it and and make contact with you we are called Jackson Ray um www.jaxonray.com which is way is w r a y uh the company's name that because my business partner is is called Strute Ray and Clive's surname was Jackson I don't use his name because professionally I've always been unbless but the name the company was named partly in honour of him because he was as much of a wordsmith as I am and and he would have been proud to see what we're doing so it's just something that keeps him tied into to my life as I go forward beautiful I love it well Jenny thank you so much for sharing with us on this uh on this interview and I so appreciate you being vulnerable and being so forthcoming with um your experience around um you know grief and trauma of course Clive sounds like he was a wonderful man um he and I share the same love of of of English Premier League soccer team named Tottenham Hotspur our American friend American listeners probably don't know what I'm talking about or don't care to but um uh he Clive certainly had very fine taste in English soccer teams so I I acknowledge you Clive up there I'm a huge Tottenham Hotspur fan um yeah so but all jokes aside thank you so much for sharing with us we so appreciate you Jenny and I look forward to watching you on your journey brilliant thank you James thanks for listening to the alcohol free lifestyle podcast I want to load you up with some free stuff right now so if you want to go to jameswanick.com slash guide I will send you my quit alcohol guide which has helped six figure entrepreneurs and top professionals produce or quit drinking you can also text the word quit guide to the number 44222 if you're in the us of course it doesn't really work anywhere outside of the us but if you're in the us on your 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