 Welcome to another show of Celebrate Life. My name is Gary DeCarros, and I'm your host. This show is really all about having Vermonters tell their amazing stories of their life, a chance to share with the audience, all the different things that happen in a person's life. Consider it kind of a live obituary. I've read many of those over the years, and I always leave saying, gosh, I wish I got to know that person. Well, this show is about getting to know that person when they're alive and vital and still part of our community. And so I'm of the firm belief that everyone has a story to tell, and this is a show that will help tell those stories to everyone. If you're interested in being a part of this show, please send me an email at celebratelife0747 at gmail.com. Or if you have a question for our guests today, again, send me an email and I'll get it over to our guests at celebratelife0747 at gmail.com. Well, I'm honored today to have as our guests Rich Feely, and Rich and I have actually known each other for a number of years and have had a great, back and forth over the years in my career, his career and had some fun together too. So welcome, Rich, to the show. Great to be here, Gary. Thanks a lot for inviting me. And just for the audience's sake, we're both Jersey boys originally. Yeah, we're right. We've come to love and enjoy this great state of Vermont and wouldn't leave it for the world. So, Rich, tell us your life story, but maybe start when you were back in Jersey as a little kid. And I know you were in South Orange, if I'm not mistaken, or East Orange. I was actually born in Newark in 1944 and was raised in the, well, it was referred to as the oranges. I was, my family actually lived in South Orange and then Orange, West Orange and then back to South Orange. All within almost a couple of blocks of each one of our residences. I grew up in, I would say kind of a middle-income Irish Catholic family. You know, when I was a kid, I was born like right during World War II. My dad was in the army overseas during the war. He went in, I can't remember how, he went in, I think around 42, 43, got out in 45 or 46. I was born in 44. And my mother's parents lived in South Orange. My grandparents, my mom's maiden name was Connolly. So both sides of my family are Irish and my first memories of my father were when I was a very little kid, maybe I was just a couple of years old and sometimes you wonder whether they're real memories or things that people told you happened. But so I lived with my grandparents, with my mom for the first couple of years of my life. And then we moved to an apartment complex in Orange. Orange was a pretty diverse community, kind of mainly Catholic, Irish and pardon me, Irish, Italian and African-Americans. And after living there for the first, I think seven years in my life from years, like three to five or six, we moved to West Orange kind of across the Brook. And then later on when I got into, I think it was going into high school, I went to, we moved just back to South Orange. And most of my, when I was a kid, most of my memories of my earlier life revolved around kind of the neighborhood and the kids in the neighborhood and mainly sports was a big part of athletics, hanging out at the local schoolyard, playing all kinds of games like stick ball, softball, football, basketball. And I was, as I am today, and as you are, I was a big Yankee fan growing up. I grew up in the, kind of in the late 40s and into the 50s. So I was a little kid, Joe DiMaggio was still playing and my father had season tickets at Yankee Stadium. So I used to go to a lot of Yankee games, both with my father and also with just some of the kids in the neighborhood. We would get on the Erie Lake, Erie Lake I want to train and go to Hoboken and then get on the tubes under the river and then the subway, it was called the D train to Yankee Stadium and got to know a lot of the peanut vendors and go out into the bowels of Yankee Stadium where I'd see some of the relief pitchers playing poker between games, between games of a double header and. No kidding. Stuff like that. My earlier memories with my family, mainly were with my mother's siblings and my mom's family rather than my father's family. My mother's family was a very big 9, 10, 10, 11 kids. Irish Catholic, my father, my grandfather was in the real estate business. Like I wound up and actually later in his life, he wound up with an artificial leg. No way. Yes, and he had a, he was a bull's headed guy with a mustache and so I think in some ways might be reincarnation of my grandfather. So for the audience's sake, you also have lost the leg. We'll talk about that down the road. So that's an amazing. I spent most of my life as an amputee. So it was kind of ironic that. Very ironic. My father, this happened to my grandfather later in his life and my father's family was pretty well racked with alcoholism and my grandfather, my grandfather had been a pretty successful businessman in New York city and wound up, you know, alcoholism took him to a really dark place. He left his family and wound up on the Bowery and wound up passing away a few years later. And so my father's family was kind of more like disjointed. His brothers and sisters were sort of scattered hither and yon because of the breakup of their family when they were little kids. So there wasn't a lot of family events with the feely side of my family. It was mainly with the connolly side. So it was like kind of an, you know, I don't know, you look back on your life, it was interesting in some respects, you know, it was kind of like my mom's side, it was kind of a fun environment with a lot of cousins and hanging out with them. And I was the oldest boy cousin. I think my mom's siblings, they had like, I think I had five or six cousins that were all girls. I had a me and then I was the first boy cousin and I was kind of referred to as the prince. And I was kind of adored by my girl cousins. And also I had a great relationship with my grandfather Connolly. He used to take me down to his real estate office on Saturday mornings and I'd take me out for ice cream and stuff. And he and I got along really well. And actually I think in some respects got along better with him than anybody else in my family. I was gonna ask you who that special person was in your life when you were young and sounds like your grandfather might've been that person. Yeah, if I had anybody that I was close to, I would say it was him. I wasn't very close to my parents, like a lot of families, like especially a lot of Irish families, there was a lot of, it was a, we were kind of referred to as a thirsty lot and a lot of drinking and culture of my family was an awful lot of, seemed like there was always a cocktail party going somewhere, going on somewhere, somebody's house. And so it was a, when I was growing up, most of, if I had any achievements that I made me feel good, they were usually sports related. I think you're looking back on what I was like in school. I don't know that I was ADHD, but I had a lot of trouble concentrating. I think I was kind of anxious as a kid. Some of it involved me around the, what was going on in my own household. And so I think escaping into the world of athletics and the neighborhood of kids I used to hang around with, and I like a lot of little kids. I mean, baseball was a real big deal for me. I grew up in the era of the Yankees, the Dodgers and the Giants in New York City. Half my friends were Yankee fans and the other half were either Dodger or Giant fans. And it was funny when I was one of my most vivid memories as a kid was when I was really young, like nine, 10, 11, I was average at best in baseball. And then I somehow at 12 years old, I kind of blossomed and became one of the better players in the Little League and made the All-Star team. And then I got picked, there used to be a show on WOR before the Dodgers games. It was called Happy Felton's Knothole Gang. It was a TV show where a member of the three kids from a little league, from any little league in the metropolitan area would go on the show and there's this big heavy guy, kind of like a, I don't know what you call him. He was a character anyway. His name was Happy Felton. He's dressed in a Dodger uniform. He was probably, you know, six foot, 300. And so he was kind of a comedian of sorts and a player would come out and meet the kids and put these kids through these baseball drills and they would pick the best player as a winner. And then, and so I went on. It was August of 1956. So it was on television. It was a half hour show before the Dodgers game was live TV. And I went on with these two other kids and these poor kids that went on with, I don't know if they ever even caught one ball that was hit to them. They were really, really nervous. And for some reason I wasn't nervous at all. And, you know, I caught everything they threw to me. And so I won. And I was Jim, junior Gilliam was the guy who picked me as the winner. Oh my goodness. And so every, all the kids got a glove and a bat and a little savings account. And then the guy who, the kid who won and you were there with your, your literally coach. And the next day you would go on the same show, the winner would, and you get a chance to ask whatever player they wanted, a bunch of questions. Oh my goodness. And so I was a Yankee fan. I remember kind of like, it must probably off the air. I asked Happy Felton if I could ask, if I could see Phil Rizzuto, who was Yankee, you know? And he kind of like made some kind of comment about I was a little wise guy or something. And so I picked Peewee Reese. I went on the show, I talked to Peewee Reese. Reese asked him a bunch of questions on the air. And then after that, towards the end of the show Happy Felton walked me down to the Dodger dugout on the air. And I got into the dugout and met all the Dodgers and with this wall I had that I said, you know, best shortstop tonight, August, something rather 1956. And I met, you know, all the Dodgers that were in the dugout, which included most of the Dodgers. And I got their autographs, you know, like Gil Hodges, Peewee Reese, Jackie Robinson, Duke Snyder. Oh my goodness. Sandy Kofax, Don Drydill. Got a chance to actually I sat there during that right before the game started with Kofax and Drydill. And I had a chance. I talked to Sandy Kofax for about five minutes. And I remember Jackie Robinson, you know, how he had a funny voice. And I remember his voice and Duke Snyder. Remember to look like he hadn't shaved in about a week. Right, good. And so in both games, it was funny. Both games, the Giants beat the Dodgers in the second game. Willie Mace at a home run. I don't know if it's come down yet. I mean, he hit it, it's been 500 feet. And so that was, I remember, you know, it's like you have little things in your life, you know, that you remember. That was one thing that I'll. That's an amazing story. And you were in the dugout during that double header? Well, no, I was in the, it was a one night when I went on and got, they had these drills. Right. And I won. And then I went on the next night for the next game. Right. And I sat in the dugout just in the beginning of the game. Just got you. Maybe for the first half inning or something. Gotcha. Yep. And I got this ball and I still have the ball. You have by all assigned by all the Dodgers and the antique roadshow. I want to take a look at that. It was probably worth it. I don't know. It's worth quite a bit of money. I would actually wound up as a somewhat as a result of that collecting Major League Baseball paraphernalia and almost all of it is assigned stuff like I have. Starting back then, I started, you know, mainly was, I don't know, 20, 25 years ago, I started collecting stuff like at auctions and eBay. So I have, you know, stuff like signed by Dave Ruth. And oh, my goodness. Do you have a mix? You know, Ted Williams. Mickey Mantle. Honest Wagner. What's his name? Roger. Roger Swarmsby. Yeah, sure. So it became kind of an obsession of mine. I definitely have obsessive compulsive personality, as you can probably tell from all the emails that I sent you as part of this show. Sorry. So let me ask you, who is your favorite baseball player growing up? Probably Mickey Mantle. Mm hmm. I want, yeah, he was my favorite. Here's my favorite player. I, he was an unbelievable athlete. He had a lot of charisma. So I'm hit some just gargantuan home runs in Yankee Stadium live. Yeah. I saw him hit a home run. It looked like it started off about five feet off the ground and it kept rising. And it went into the dead center fields. They had a tarpon, like a black tarpon over the, Right. Over the seats out there. Yup. It was 461 feet to dead center field then. And he hit it like, it was at least 500 and some odd feet. And I bet it, it seemed like it took like two seconds to get there. It was a line drive. And the whole place went dead silent. It was just unbelievable, you know. Wow. Wow. I also liked Ted Williams, even though he was not a Yankee, but I could recognize what an incredible hitter he was. Yeah. And he's really a fun to watch him play. And sometimes I was, you know, he would do a job on the Yankees when it came to Yankee Stadium every once in a while. Yeah. I would say probably the best players I ever saw play were probably Mannel Williams and Willie Mace. Yeah. Willie Mace was probably the best player I ever saw. You know, I wish I'd had an opportunity to see Babe Ruth play. I think he was probably the best player that ever played the game. He was so much better than anybody else that ever played, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So based on my wife, Terry, who you know, we've been married almost 55 years and I would say for the first 40 years of our marriage, she's slowly become an avid Yankee fan. Now I would say it's got from avid to rabid to total mania. I mean, if you were a fly on the wall of our house here, especially when she and Carlos Stanton swings at a pitch outside the strike zone, they leave a pitcher, they leave a pitcher in too long and he starts walking everybody. This place lights up, you know, it's really fun to watch. Really she's become probably a bigger fan. I'm as big of a fan as I think I could be. Yeah, that's right. She takes it just to another level. Another level, that's great. That speaks to the love between the two of you. Yeah, we're a pretty good team, I think, you know. Yeah, you are. When I get back, you're talking a little bit, you know, like growing up, you know, I never did, I was probably like an average student, you know, like in grammar school, I went to a Catholic grammar school, we had, you know, nuns and anybody who's been through that experience, it's sort of an interesting thing, you know, it's like anything else in life, they got nuns that were really good at what they did, the nuns that weren't so good at what they did. And I was, you know, I don't think I, you know, the attention that I got at home never seemed, it never seemed all that positive. So I didn't get a lot of, I didn't, you know, I think beyond everything else, I've always been sort of somewhat self-absorbed. So I was probably, I probably needed more attention or thought I did than I might have really needed. And so acting out like in school, you know, being the class clown, that kind of stuff, I think I played that role. And, you know, it wasn't like a fun thing to do, but it seemed to be like my thing to do, you know? Yeah, yeah. So I just, I think a lot of times when I'm looking back at my life, I think I suffered from a lot of anxiety and didn't really, it was like never served, but never diagnosed, you know, was just part of who I was, you know? Richard, did you talk, did your family talk to you or any other kids about alcohol when you were young about the, you know, how it, the dangers of it and all that stuff? No, they were too busy, you know, I think, like my parents, I think they did as good a job as they could probably have done, but they were, they were busy drinking. They were also busy living their lives, they were involved in the community. You know, I think I was well cared for, like I lived in a nice house, you know? I lived in a, you know, everything I was given, I was, I wouldn't say I was privileged, but I was kind of average, you know? I feel like it was like middle America back in the 60s and 60s. And, but I think I, you know, I look at what kids go through today and it seems like everybody's got a psychologist or a doctor giving them Ritalin or paying attention. And I don't think, you know, I think a bit younger than me, but maybe not by a lot. And when we were growing up, I don't think there was like, that kind of thing wasn't happening, you know? Right, right. Yeah. You were kind of on your own. That's right. Yeah, I understand. I remember when I was a little kid, a kid committing suicide, you know, like he was 14 years old and everybody was like shaking their heads. Nobody could kind of come to grips with it, but I'm sure, you know, that kid was probably a troubled kid and nobody really, I don't know if anybody, we didn't know it in the neighborhood park where we hung out, you know? We were just stunned when it happened, you know? Yeah. So, you know, once I got out of grammar school, you know, say when I was like 15 or like 14, 15, I went to a, you know, I mean, everybody kind of went to a Catholic school, sort of like the church, you know? And I grew up in a community that was probably half Catholic and half Jewish. It was an interesting community. It was like Irish, Italian, a few African-Americans and a lot of Jewish people. So it was a diverse community from a religious standpoint. This is South Orange, New Jersey. And a lot of respects, it was a great town to grow up in. It had everything from, you know, tenements to mansions. It was a nice town to grow up in, but so I went to this Catholic high school, Seton Hall Prep, which is on the same campus as Seton Hall University. And it was all boys. And it was, you know, pretty strict. You had to wear certain clothes to school. I think we had to wear a tie. And I never, even though I did okay from an athletic standpoint there, I never really took to the place. I don't know what it was. It was probably a combination of maybe too much Catholicism, too many rules, no girls. It just seemed really stifling. And I, that was about the time, just about the time I was at Seton Hall is when I start, my behavior started getting pretty bad, you know, and it was all tied to drinking, you know, I started drinking when I was in high school. And, you know, I eventually was asked to leave Seton Hall Prep because of my combination of my behavior and academics. But the academics was really because I just, I wasn't showing up for class. You know, I wasn't taking the tests, that kind of stuff. And things weren't good at home. And I remember after my sophomore year, I wanted to leave and the baseball coach wanted me to stay. So my parents kind of got some of us, somehow we got talked into me stay into my junior year, but I left in the middle of my junior year, I'd had enough and once you were there, it sounded like a large public school. Yeah, it sounded almost like you, you weren't able to say, I don't want to be here, but your actions basically said, I don't want to be here. Right, I think I was pretty immature, you know, like socially immature. I was small. I think I was reasonably intelligent, but I just, I didn't have a lot of the social skills to be able to, it didn't seem I took things very seriously. You know, I just never really got, never really kind of figured out the whole education part of it. You know, why am I here? What am I supposed to be doing? You know, so I acted out, you know? And so I wound up in public school and the public school I went to was a big school and a lot of kids that I kind of grew up with, maybe from the other side of the tracks, you know? I kind of got in touch with those guys and my behavior really got really bad and my drinking really took off and I was in trouble all the time, both in the, not so much in school, a little bit in school, but outside in the community with the, you know, the local like juvenile officers and people like that, you know? Right, right. It all related to alcohol, you know, drinking too much, just over going way over the top. I never really, when I started drinking, I didn't really start like a lot of kids did with this, you know, buying a six pack or something. I hung out with a couple of guys that were my own age and we just sort of drank whiskey. Yeah, yeah. I hung out on the street corner and I got into trouble. It just seemed like it was, trouble just was like following me around. And at the same time, I was still that same kind of like confused, anxious kid. I don't think I really, in a lot of respects had a, I don't think I ever had like a mean bone on my body, but I was attracted to the excitement of trouble. Yeah. But I didn't want to hurt anybody. I just, I just liked acting out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you went, so with all that going on, you graduated, I know, and you went to say, Michaels, how did you pull that off? I think what happened to me was, I went to this prep school. I took most of the courses that like, like in a public school, you'd have to take the graduate by the time I was in my junior year. When I went to public school, I wound up, my senior year, it was kind of comical. I took record keeping, wood shop, typing. What else did I take? Economics, Jim had a couple of study halls and I was on the baseball team. So I got an extra study hall. I guess I didn't have to go to Jim cause I was on the baseball team. I can't remember, but I got like mostly A's because I was taking these gut courses, you know, I was taking these courses, all the kids in my class were all kids who weren't going to college. Right. I already taken all the courses you needed to take to go to college. Gotcha. And then I took the college boards and I did okay. You know, I mean, I didn't set the world, you're always above average, but not a long above average. Yeah. So I wound up applying to like four colleges. None of them were, I'd say, Mike's was the Harvard of the schools I applied to. I applied to like Stonehill College, Bryant College, and Providence, and Nichols College in Dudley, Massachusetts. And I never forget my visit to Nichols because I was there with my parents and I never visited St. Mike's before I went there, but I went to Nichols and I remember walking around the campus and there was a big sign hanging out off a balcony at one of the dorms that said like 28 kegs tonight. Jeez. My father said, well, I guess I know where you want to go to school. Oh brother, geez. But I didn't go there. I guess I thought better of it. And I wound up coming to St. Mike's. I'd never seen the school. I heard it was a pretty good school. There was a lot of guys from Jersey there. I still said this day, don't know why I have picked it all men's school. Yeah, Catholic all men's school. Because I picked a Catholic all men's school here. I've been in a Catholic all men's high school and didn't like it. And so I came up to St. Mike's. And by that time, I was a good thing for me to get out of town. I'll just put it that way in my Jersey. I mean, I think they were tired of me. I was tired of it. And but I came to St. Mike's. And I remember that like maybe the first or second day I was here in Burlington. So this was 60 years ago I got here, you know, 1962. And this there, you know, it was a quiet up here. It was really quiet. And the first day this guy in my class, he was 21. He'd been in college for four years and he was still a freshman. Oh my God. He was a character. So he said, let's go into Burlington. So we started walking down the hill from St. Mike's and came over the hill and we thought we were going into Burlington, but we were heading into Winooski. And I came over the hill and I looked down into Winooski and it almost brought tears to my eyes because it was just, it was not, it was a raggedy town Winooski back then. It was not, it was a lot different than the Winooski you see today. Yes. I remember we walked down, we walked down the hill and we got in and we went into the Mill Cafe in Winooski, which was a, was a college bar. Julie Molanson and her husband, Phil owned it. And I walked in there and I was 18. He was 21 and his name was Sullivan. And so Julie asked us for an ID. And so he gave him, he gave her his draft card and he handed me his driver's license under the table. And I gave him, I gave Julie his driver's license. So she was looking at two pieces of ID with the same name on it. And I was able to drink there ever since then under the name Sullivan until I got older and I started using my own name. But, you know, my, when I was at St. Mike's, you know, it was my, really my first time kind of away from home. And I felt like I would had arrived in like Mayberry you know, compared to Jersey. And it really kind of, it kind of blew me away. I mean, when I was, the first year I was at St. Mike's I was not a happy guy. The smallness of it all? It was just too hokey. Uh-huh, yeah. It was just too hokey. It's just, but you know, a lot of my buddies at St. Mike's were Jersey boys and a lot of them actually didn't make it out of freshman year. But, you know, as time went on, you know, I think my drinking, you know, was really, really, by the time I got to St. Mike's, I was, I'm certain I was already an alcoholic. And, you know, so it didn't get any better when I got here. And, you know, my, I was a guy who was smart enough to be able to kind of get, you know, find a way to master the art of getting to see. And I kind of get by and that, you know, sort of like my history of St. Mike's was similar to my history in high school. The middle of my junior year was like 1964, five, I think. I decided I wasn't going to college anymore. So I had a girl at Trinity made me up a sign with said Miami Beach on it. I went out on the highway and put it out. And so I sold my car and withdrew from the college and put my sign out and it's from Miami Beach. And I got a ride. The guy was going all the way to Baltimore. And I said, why don't we stop them on a phone and a jersey. I want to see if a couple of my friends who were going to be on leave from the Marines were home. So they happened to be home with big mistake. I stopped. And that night was, I won't go into the details, but I wound up under lock and key. And nothing really, really bad. But I wound up driving a cab in my hometown for six months. I was the only Caucasian cab driver. It was an interesting experience. And after six months of driving a cab, I wound up, I said, you know, maybe I don't think about going back to college. So I talked to my dad and he agreed to send me back. And so I came back. I left St. Mike's in February and I went back in October. That was 1965. And St. Mike's didn't have semester. So I had to start all over again my junior year. And so that was the year I met my wife, Terri, who was, she was a, I was a junior at St. Mike's. She was a freshman at Trinity. And we met in an apartment building downtown. She came down to borrow one of my friend's cars. And I fell like head over heels in like 30 seconds. And we've been together ever since. And actually, we owned that apartment building for like, after I got out of college, we bought it. And we owned it for like 35 years. And I was going to put a plaque on the side of that building, but it never did. But we got married right after I graduated from St. Mike's. And I got a job at the Howard Bank in Burlington. And I graduated on a Sunday from St. Mike's and started working at the bank. There's like a management treaty. And that was 1967 in September of 1967. Pardon me, in June of 67. And then September of 67, we got married. And just a couple of months later, Terri got pregnant. And she was at Trinity. So she went through her junior year of pregnant. And then my son, our son Brad was born in July of 68 when she was going into her senior year. So she was carrying around our son in a backpack and also in a stroller her senior year in college. While I was working at the Howard Bank, she was also working at the University of Vermont in a bio lab for Madeline Cunin's husband, Dr. Arthur Cunin. And so we started our family. You know, they were living in, we lived in Burlington. And then we moved to Wendoski and lived there. And then, and then bought our first home. We were really young. We were like maybe 25 and 22 out in Colchester. We bought a house, some little kind of a shack on Marble Island Road. It was like $17,000, I think. And I was working for the Howard Bank. And like in 19, we were married. You know, we had Brad, he was just, he was born in 68. And then, then 1970, I was playing a friend of mine started a rugby club at UVM and they didn't have enough, they didn't have enough students to field a team. So they, they asked local business people who had some athletic ability to play. So I decided to play. And in, that was 1969, 1970, I was playing in a game in Montreal for UVM. We were playing a Canadian team of Westmount Rugby Club. They were like, you know, adult older guys and a horrific injury, a horrific, I got tackled and just had a horrible, horrific knee injury. It's hardly even, it was just really, really bad. And as a result of that injury, my knee got dissipated so bad that I wound up having to have my leg amputated. That's amazing. Above my knee, I was 20, it's just turned 26 and married with one little boy. I was in the hospital up there for a couple of months. I had, I had, I had one of a gangrene and I had my kidneys started breaking, breaking down. So in the meantime, the Howard Bank where I had worked was incredibly good to me the whole time I was there, they paid my salary. They told me not to worry about anything. They, they'd pick up, you know, they pay my salary until I get back to work. Wow. And I, so Terrier was going back and forth to Montreal. I was in the hospital, she stayed for a while. We had this little kid and Wow. I was, you know, petrified about what was going to happen, you know, to us like financially, we didn't have any money at all. And, but you know, the bank really took care of me and when I came back to Vermont, like a couple of months after I got hurt, I got fitted for an artificial leg. And, you know, I kind of, I kind of, I don't know, my attitude was sort of like, I guess I got to get back to work, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I got to the, was at the bank and I decided for some reason, this kind of close encounter with death or a real serious injury made me decide I wanted to do something with my life. So I went to the president of the bank and told him, was pretty naive. I said, you know, he was a really good guy. And I said, I want to talk to you about it. I want to be somebody. I don't want to be sitting down on the basement of the bank here running an anti machine. I want to, I said, well, who do you want to be? I said, well, I wouldn't mind your job someday. And he laughed, he brought over the executive VP of the bank. He said, you know, listen to what this little guy has to say, you know. So I told him all this and I think, and he said, you come back in a week and we're going to have a job for you. And he says, I don't have any doubt you're going to be somebody. So I came back a week later and they had this, it was a pretty big responsible thing. It was starting a new department. And so I did, I went down to New York city to kind of copy what the First National City Bank had for a department. And I went back to the Howard and instituted that. And Rose became a commercial loan officer. Rose pretty fast in the bank. Wow. It became like, you know, some people have a something like that happened to them in their life. It can kind of change in one of two ways. You know, they either become birds in the breast or they just kind of like take off. And that's what happened to me. I was going to ask you about that because I think we've talked about this. My father had lost his leg in World War II above the knee like yourself. And he went on to have an amazing life and never let it slow him down. If anything, he was even more determined to be successful because of that. Then I'd seen another, my next door neighbor up in Buffalo, same thing. He lost the leg above the knee and he was depressed and he just curled up in a ball and gave up on life. It's hard to know. I think a lot of it with me was who I was married to. I married to a real spark plug and I got an incredible amount of support. Yeah. And, you know, and I think that had a lot to do with it. You know, I really wanted to do something. I wanted to sort of be somebody, you know? And I spent my whole life, you know, so anxious and unsure of myself. And then all of a sudden, I had this thing happen to me and it was like, in some respects, it was like a gift, you know, like people say things like that if something really bad happens to them, you know? It turned the light bulb on for you. Yeah, it turned the light bulb on. And, you know, so sort of going forward, our second son Seth was born in 1971. And, you know, that was, I stayed at the Howard Bank until 19, I lose track of the years here, but my wife had an interest in keen interest in politics. Her father had been involved in the Democratic Party in Connecticut then. So she was, I think it was like I'm gonna say the mid-70s, she decided she was gonna run, we were living in Colchester, she decided she was gonna run for political office. So she ran for the Vermont State Legislature against an incumbent out here and she worked her rear end off and she won. And she wound up serving three terms in the legislature as a Democrat. And it was about the same time that I was, you know, reconsidering what I wanted to do with my life because back in those days, you know, I never really kind of like when I envisioned myself, I didn't sort of envision myself as a banker. I never thought I was kind of like, I don't know, am I serious enough or that driven to make money for like an institution or something? I like parts of being a banker. It was kind of fun helping people get started in their own business and stuff like that. But so I decided I had been doing some work for a local real estate company, one of my customers, Cicaca Boardman, and I decided there was a couple of guys, people there, someone real estate. And I said, you know, I saw a real need for a commercial real estate brokerage in Burlington because it wasn't really anybody doing it that was very successful at it. And I thought with my background as commercial lending, I could probably do pretty well at it. And so I went to work for them for like a year. And I was really weird. I mean, I was like the guy you see, I remember Bert Campaneros, when he broke into the major leagues, he had a home run his first time up. That's sort of what happened to me. I was in a business, like just a matter of a couple of weeks and I made this huge sale and made probably twice as much money as I'd ever made working in the bank in a year. And I said, boy, this is the easy. I sold a place downtown. I don't know if you were around that was B team of guires and Hannibal's. It was a bar right across from here. Oh yeah. I sold that place for a couple of guys I went to school at the St. Mike's. And it was a big sale. Everyone was talking about it. And all of a sudden I was kind of like, kind of a golden boy, you know? And so I really liked it. I liked the attention. I liked, I never had, really never had any money in my pocket before. My wife and I and so she was off, you know, doing a political thing. And I said, you know, and I was a Chicago boardman and I was, I was only there about a year. And I, one of my friends, Tom Coburn, he had an insurance company, which I'd helped finance when I was with the bank. He and I got together one day and I told him about my idea of starting a commercial real estate company. And he liked the idea. I didn't have a, you know, two nickels to rub together. And he didn't have a lot, but he had a lot of confidence in himself and he was really calm, cool and collected. He was sort of the opposite of me. I was more high strong, like a high strong, I don't know, dog or thoroughbred or something, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was like, you know, he was just really a cool, calm, cool guy. And so we hooked up together and we just kind of hit it off from the beginning. And I think we were at the right place at the right time in Burlington when things were really starting to hum. And it was like, it was right before, it was right before the Sanders phenomenon took place in Burlington. In the seventies, late seventies. Late seventies, yeah. And we bought a building on College Street when there wasn't anything going on on College Street down by Bennington Potters. Yeah. What a building there for like nothing, didn't it? No money down, you know, back in the days when you could do that kind of thing and make sure making these character loans to people they thought, you know, they could, they'd find a way to pay them back, you know, they knew where they lived, that kind of stuff, you know? Yes. And so, you know, we, I just, one thing led to another, I kept buying real estate, selling real estate and it became more and more self-confident. But then, you know, I was still drinking at the time. And I can ask you about it. I remember my partner said to me one day something like, I don't know if our relationship will be long-term because there's a part of me that always wonders whether you're gonna drive off the King Street Docks some night half in the back. And it kind of hit me between the eyes. We were at one of these self-help things where you would say what you really thought, you know, back in those self-help kind of days, people were given those kind of seminars, you know, and kind of hit me between the eyes. And then I started thinking about not drinking. I had a couple of DWIs, you know, a lot of people knew me in Burlington, they knew my wife, you know, and a lot of people were like hoping maybe I might see the light. And then I don't know how much time we have, Gary. I was gonna ask you, do we have some more time? Yes, we do. So what happened to me was I, somewhere along the line, I wound up as one of the owners of Sneaker's Restaurant in Onoski. And I was over there one morning after having had a really bad night drinking and ran into one of my partners, Billy Hunter, who owned all sneakers, he owned the restaurant at Forest Hills, he owned the Ice House restaurant and he had owned BT McGuire's and Hannibal's and we were good friends. And I guess I'd been a real kind of jerk the night before and said some things to him that I still don't know what I said, but he told me, he said, if you don't do something about your drinking, I don't wanna be your friend anymore and I certainly don't wanna be your partner. So somehow or another, it just hit me right in the heart. And it was like November of 1982 and I was standing in front of Sneaker's. It was kind of chilly and I felt like somebody tore, pulled the skin right off my body or something. And it just, I was like terrified, you know? I got in my car, drove downtown to my office on College Street because I had to meet a guy to go look at a building I had listed at 45 Clark Street in Burlington. And so I pull up in front of him and I'm thinking to myself, I gotta stop drinking, I gotta stop drinking. And God helped me, you know? I still had a belief in God and some kind of a higher power. I think that, you know, 16 years of Catholic education, so if it's so can. And so this guy's waiting for me at the front door, isn't it? And I said, are you looking for Rich Feely and down on College Street? And he said, yes, he said, hop in, that's me. He set up an appointment with my secretary to see this building. So I didn't really, I don't even know if I had his name. She just told me you got a meeting with a guy here, you know, 10 o'clock. It was November 15th, I think, 1982. So I'm driving down College Street. I'm thinking I gotta stop drinking. This poor guy sitting next to me, you know, and I got my mind's elsewhere. And I pulled in front of what now is the Hilton Hotel on Battery Street and the old Ramada Inn or whatever it was, Radisson, I think. And I turned to this guy. I'm thinking I gotta stop drinking. I turned to this guy and I said, so what's your interest in this building and what organization are you with? You might know the name. He says to me, well, my name's, now I'm not gonna be able to. Dave Hutchinson, I'm the executive director of Champlain Drug and Alcohol Services and we help people with alcohol and drug problems. Wow. So I'm sitting in my car, I'm sitting in my car and I felt like a lightning bolt lit up the inside of my car. Wow. And I heard these three words. This is it in my head. And I turned to this guy and I said, did you hear that? He said, did you hear what? And I said, oh, nevermind. Wow. And I said, I mean, I wasn't a super religious guy and I'm still not, but I kind of had an idea who was in the backseat of my car. Yeah. And it was a guy who's usually very busy and I didn't think he had an awful lot of time for me. But he said, this is it. So I pull over to 45 Clark Street, parking the parking lot. And I kept asking this guy, Dave, how do I quit drinking? How do I quit drinking? I got his drinking problem. This poor guy who was dealing with alcohol all day long is finally out for a break looking at a building. It shows to me, Rich, listen, I got some questions about the building. You can answer my questions, I'll tell you what to do. So I handed him this fact sheet for the building and walked him around the building and got back out in the parking lot. He gave me his card and he said, I think we wanna buy the building. So once you come over in a couple hours and we'll write up an offer and I'll tell you what you gotta do about your drinking. So I went over there, they wrote up an offer. Now, long story short, they bought the building. I never drank again. Wow. And I was their first customer. I was their first client when they were moving furniture in the building. Wow. And I got counseling there and then, Wow. I'd also had a, you know, I smoked a lot of marijuana. So she told me I had to stop smoking that but she said, you can take your time with that. So over six months I stopped. So I was, you know, May of 1983 is what I consider my sobriety date. It was a gift, you know, that what that guy said to me in front of sneakers that morning, you know, who knows, you know, the way things happen in life. Who knows what would have happened to me with my family and my business if I hadn't lost my leg. Who knows what would have happened to me if that guy hadn't said that to me in front of sneakers that morning. That's great. That's great. So I think like you just never know in life what it has in store for you and what thing might happen to you or that might completely change your whole direction because once I started, you know, once I started dealing, getting into recovery, my whole life just completely changed. I mean, it became like, you know, it took time. I mean, it happened over, it's now been, you know, almost 40 years. It's, you know, I've been blessed, you know. I feel like, like I don't know what would have happened in my life if I hadn't found a way into this life of recovery. Right. You know, the one thing that I'm taking from some of what you're just saying is that there was a part of you that was open to hearing what those people were telling you, your friends, your partners, the guy that you sold the building to. I mean, you could have another rich feel. He could have let those things just go by and not see those as potential turning points in your life. Have you, you let it in? Absolutely. And as, you know, that was sort of what was that? You know, that's 40 years ago, the last 40 years of my life, you know, probably 20 years of that were taken up, you know, working my rear end off in the real estate business and, you know, had some success at that. And as a real estate developer, I think you were on the board. Were you on the city council when I was a board of Alderman, when I was metal? Yes, I was, absolutely. So that was one of the, I remember, I can't imagine, you know, having gone through, having to go through something like that when I was drinking. I mean, it really worked, you know? And I did find out doing that, that specific process really wasn't my cup of tea. You know, I really wasn't, some people were really good at that, like maybe somebody like Eric Farrell or Burlington Housing Trust or other people who are more, some people are just really good at that kind of thing. Yeah, right. I was really, I thought I was, you know, I did a pretty good job as a landlord and owning real estate and being a steward of property and taking care of it and running a real estate business and stuff like that. Because, you know, I think generally I, you know, I care about people, I care about the community. Yes. And so much of that came as a result of kind of finding out who I really am. But I'm really not, you know, not the person I thought I was when I was younger. I'm just another person trying to add some positive things to the world, you know? And also enjoy my life and not the, and I found out, you know, also it took me a while because I had some success, you know, it took me a while to sort of kind of get over myself a little bit because it sounded like Burlington. You know, if you're successful and it sounded like Burlington, you know, it's a small town and a lot of people are paying attention to you and it's kind of easy to get caught up in your own self-importance, you know, that you think that you're special or something. And maybe you are kind of, we're all special in our own way. Right, I know what you mean. But not that we're better than anybody else, you know? Right, right. So Rich, tell me, because I think in some ways this is a foundational piece of your life. Tell me about you and Terry. She's played a big part of who you are today. Yeah, I mean, she's a sister gem, you know? I probably cry here. I don't know what, you know, I was lucky. When I was growing up, I didn't have a lot of experience with girls, you know? I mean, I had probably the average number of girlfriends, but I never really knew how to act around girls or I never felt comfortable around girls. But, you know, with her, I've always, one thing I've noticed in my life though has always been any girls that I were attracted to were usually kind of smart. My father told me one time growing up, he and I didn't get along well, but I remember him telling me, you know, make sure you hook up with a girl who's smarter than you. And then he would say some snide comment like, well, shouldn't be all that hard. Yeah, right. But he was right, you know? It's so much fun to go through life with a mate, you know, somebody who you really care about and who really cares about you and, you know, somebody to talk with and, you know, bounce things off of and, you know, nobody's, there's no way you're ever gonna go through life with a, I don't think a perfect relationship, you know? It's hard enough to have a good relationship just with yourself. And then when you bring somebody else into the mix, but, you know, having a team member of mate, you know, a spouse has been such an important part of my life, you know? I mean, she's kind of, I mean, I know where she comes from, you know? She's the oldest of nine kids in a French, Canadian, Catholic family in Connecticut that grew up in a, you know, they didn't have anything, you know? And I spent a summer at her house before we got married. She was a nanny on the beach in Rhode Island and I was living, for some reason, her mother asked me to stay at the house. I was working on the railroad, the New Haven railroad that summer in her hometown and toughest job I ever had in my life, working on like a road gang, you know? Oh my goodness. Founded in spikes and moving ties around, stuff like that, you know? But I lived in her house and, you know, there were like nine kids and her parents in one bathroom and, you know, three, four kids to a bedroom. And so, you know, she didn't have it easy as a kid, but it was what she was used to. And she brought a lot of that to the table when we got married. I mean, she was, first of all, she, as I said, when I was sitting in that apartment at 206 Maple Street in Burlington, she walked in the apartment and, you know, you see those like in a cartoon or comic strip where they have the little cupid with the arrow, the little stars and the hearts and stuff, that was me. I was like just blown away. That had never happened to me before. It had never happened to me before and it's never happened to me since, you know? Yep, that's great. And I just said to myself, there's no way that I'm letting this girl get away. Not gonna happen, you know? And so, you know, she, you know, she has, she doesn't drink. She quit drinking, you know, many, many years ago, 35 years ago. And so our relationship is a lot of it's based on, you know, respect. And I mean, we're a couple of characters, you know? We're different, I think, in a lot of ways. And, you know, it's been, especially the last few years with this, we're both, you know, bent to the left politically, probably moderate to liberal, like more like the old type liberal than liberal today. So we agree on a lot of things in life, a lot of political things in life about the way the world should be and all the rest of that, you know? And, you know, we've had our issues over the years, like any couple would have, but we were able to find a way, you know? Like we had a problem, find a way to put that in the past, you know? Like suck it up, say, well, you know, you don't want to match scorecards, you know? If you're married, you know? It's like, you know, like who, you know, who did, you know, like if somebody, I don't know, forgets to do something and you want to get mad at them, like didn't you forget to do something too? You know, like, you really got to kind of, you know, you got to be able to compromise, find the art of compromise is really important, you know? And I really love her, she's a really, she's a really good person, she's a really nice woman. I like trying to make her happy and we have a pretty, pretty simple life in a lot of ways. I mean, my kids say to me, dad, you know, something like, you know, why don't you buy some big condo, you know, for $2 million or something? We got a little camp here on the beach and I don't know if I can show you my, I'm looking at it, you probably can't see because it's so bright in it. Oh yeah, that's beautiful. Wow. See that right there? Yep. That's the lake, you know, there's our beach. Wow. Is that Malis Bay? Yes, Malis Bay. We're right, you know, paid like 40 grand for this place. 35 years ago and we fixed it up, but it's our little piece of heaven and down in Florida, we live in a, you know, middle America kind of community and it's not like some, you know, it's not a, I don't know what you want to call it, it's not rich man's. Right. Well, we never, neither of us have ever been into that kind of putting out those kind of heirs, you know? Right, right. You're real people. It doesn't really seem like there's any point to that. It just seems so artificial, you know? Yeah. So thank you for sharing your life with Terry. I think that's an important part of who you are. Anything in life that you haven't done that you want to do? I'm going to tell you one other thing about Terry before I forget about it. Whenever I went to a bank in Burlington, which was very often to borrow a lot of money for stuff that I did building stuff, they would invariably ask, how's Terry doing? Because they knew that how Terry was doing was how I was doing. And as long as she was part of the team, her chances of getting repaid were probably very high multiples of what it would be if I was out there being the old rich feeling, you know? Wow, that's amazing. Things I haven't done, you know what? I don't really think so. We've talked about, you know, like, I've been to Ireland a lot. I've got cousins over there. I like Ireland. I have some inner ear problems that make it a little scary for me to fly now. So everything I think about going anywhere, it's usually I want to go by car. We thought about maybe going to Nova Scotia, something like that. As far as doing anything, I think just being able to spend time with our family, we have, you know, two sons. They're like 54 and 51. Got two granddaughters are 20, 23 and 20. One graduated from UVM. The other is going to be a junior at Salve, Regina University and in Newport, Rhode Island. Our two sons are, they live in Washington, DC and in Fairfield, Connecticut. They're really good guys. We get along with them great. That's great. So we've had, we've been really, been really lucky. I think, you know, as long as I keep living my life one day at a time, not getting caught up in yesterday or tomorrow, just, you know, trying to live my life sober. Yes. It's the whole thing. It's the whole, I went to a meeting last night. You know, I still, I still try to be vigilant. Even people ask me, you know, like, what are you concerned about after all these years? And I just say, you know, you never know. Exactly. You never know. And once you start, you know, once you start taking that, especially sobriety for granted, you can be in a lot of trouble. I would like to see one of my biggest concerns right now, and I have to be careful that I don't get obsessed by it, is what's going on in our country politically. It's really difficult. I remember the days when, you know, Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill could go out and have a couple of beers and settle a problem. And these politicians today don't even seem to be able to do something like that. And I don't know how we're ever gonna make any headway in this country as long as we have people that just won't talk with each other. Yeah. Yeah. You're absolutely right. People gotta learn how to talk with each other. Otherwise, it's gonna be painful. It's gonna be painful to watch what goes on in the United States. I'm so glad I live here rather than anybody else, but than anywhere else. But it's a challenge, so. Yeah. I would agree with you, Rich, for sure. Well, listen, anything you want, we're gonna wrap up soon. Anything you wanna say that hasn't been said, anything that you wanna put on the table? Other than the fact that when I was 17, me and another guy in my neighborhood had a workout tryout with New York Yankees in Yankee Stadium. Oh my goodness. In August of 1961. Wow. When the M&M boys were going for the home run record. Yes. And I got a chance to stand in at home play the Yankee Stadium at batting practice, and I didn't, I think I got one ball out of the infield. That was it. So I got home that night, my father said, how did you do? I said, well, I found out what I'm not gonna be doing for a living. Wow. But I had my shot. You did, isn't that amazing? How many people can say that? Not many. Not many, but I had my shot. That's wonderful, that is wonderful. You had your shot, you know? And in your life, you've had your shot too, and you've made the most of it, Rich. I've tried hard, and I'm grateful for my life, and I'm grateful to you and for asking me to say a few words. Well, you're more than welcome. Thank you again for everything. Okay, buddy.