 All right. I have the top of the hour. So let's begin. Let me welcome you. Let me welcome everybody to the Future Trends Forum I'm delighted to see you all here today. My name is Brian Alexander. I'm the forum's creator I'm the host on your chief cat herder and your guide to the next hour of conversation about XR and what that means for higher education We have a topic that is of great great interest, especially for a future's point of view We all know about virtual reality. We all know that augmented reality And we're all very curious about how these can play out in terms of higher education in terms of teaching and learning And with us we have two guests who are for my money the world's best gurus on how we learn about this and how we apply to higher education To begin with I'd like to welcome my good friend Maya Gorgeva and bring her on stage Hello, Maya It's nice to be here and see everybody and I you know just curious about XR. I hope I Think they are I think everybody is and you're just the person to help us learn it. How are you doing? How is everything and are you in New York? Yes, I'm in New York City. Um, you know, I spend most of my time these days But it's it's been a good summer and looking forward to reopening our XR lab at the Parsons School of Design and the new school This fall back for our students and yes, we are working through, you know New protocols and new ways to do that. But nonetheless, we are very excited to welcome back our students faculty and you know our friends even from the city Fantastic, fantastic You know the drill I asked people what to introduce themselves by describing what they're gonna be doing from the next year And you just started answering that describing how you're gonna have to reopen your lab for face-to-face work Tell us a bit more about that and also tell us what else you can be working on for 2021 and 2022. Oh I can't wait to you know to meet the students and we meet them in virtual world and as you know We've been waiting meeting there and experimenting and it has been like an amazing ear between collaborating and exploring these places these new spaces but at the same time we're excited to also welcome them on site and Be enough for the students to be able to like firsthand touch experience play the things that we have in our XR lab. So That is one I my I have also Sort of like a my personal challenge this fall is in addition to everything I do I will be teaching Fundational course and immersive storytelling at the person's school of design. This is a course This is offered to all of our students So in it we have students that come from design backgrounds and very visual and media backgrounds but we also have You know our makers so to speak but we also have our thinkers because we also have students that come from anthropology and Come from code in liberal arts or design and journalism in our liberal arts college and Lang and then also You know, it's so much fun because we get students from our Performance college and we get our actors and people who actually play music and it brings it brings it brings It's full circle. It is something that I've been Actually co-teaching for the last few years and you know kind of bringing students in a different variety But I get to do it myself this fall. So as anybody who is faced with With a number of students and ta's I'm working hard on making this happen Well, that sounds terrific And your enthusiasm is infectious. I can only imagine how excited your students will be I friends I if you're new to the forum I have a couple of quick questions from Maya, but then the whole idea is for you all To take the floor for you all to ask her your questions And you can tell already that she's an expert in this And you can also tell that we're going to have a lot to talk about One thing I would like to ask Is I mentioned before we're familiar with augmented reality or ar and we're pretty familiar with vr But what for you? What does xr mean? What does stand for and how should we think about? Yes, xr extended reality and it's been an interesting word when we first appeared a few years back And you know as we yeah There's been research and work being doing in virtual and augmented reality and then xr And I think what's happening is that as all of us was starting to play and really experiment with vr ar 360 video We kind of get into a place where you know, you're thinking about Well, this you know, how what are you making what you're doing? How are you? You know, kind of how you're focusing you're teaching your research You know your performance And so that xr word became It really the umbrella firm and was really driven by the idea that things are changing constantly And so as things are changing the vr headsets today, they actually can give you a sense of you know augmented reality They have this pass through that you can actually see through your vr headset You know in experience they have a number of sensors similar to what Mixed reality or augmented reality headsets have and so this idea that as things continue to evolve as headsets as the technology You know becomes You know creates new opportunities and affordances. So is our language And xr stands for this umbrella firm that really captures that Sort of that we are on a continuum and so is the technologies and the things we can make with it So really an umbrella term You know that that works and I know because About four years ago when I titled the x reality center at the new school I span a tour of of trying to say what's xr So, um, it's interesting, you know the the world the world now is used both Very heavily in industry but as well as an education It's just really Incompassing the work that's taking place in these domains a r vr 360 video m r and so and so on A fine umbrella term. Thank you. That's really really clear Uh trends, uh, this is the time to shift over to a few different things But one I want to point out to you is The occasion of us hosting, uh, Maya and her colleague has to do with the release of a very powerful and important new report From I learned this is a report on the state of xr And if you look on the bottom left of your screen, you should see a kind of mustard colored box If you press that button up a pop of link to that full report And this is a report that is very very powerful very important and covers a lot of ground It used a kind of delphi method report to approach to work with a whole bunch of experts literally around the world And maya is one of the lead authors on this report So just really very quickly before we can dive into the everyone else's questions I just wonder maya if you just say a word or two about the report and What's surprised you about it and what we should find in it? Yes, so this has been in our report that you know It's been like a year and a half in the making as many efforts, you know Touched and marked by the you know the the the time we spend in you know, like basically social distancing in the pandemic But it is as as brian said is a delphi method. So it started with um summoning a panel of about um From a hundred and more expert panel, which the iorn network was you know, the immersive learning network and research network um Was um, you know really? championed and and supported um the entire effort of producing the state of exile report and so you know with them You know bringing up a panel expert And having discussing and we've done kind of discussing in a digital workspace Asynchronously and bringing a number of topics um to you know, to you know, it's that that whole movement virtual augmented mixed reality Movement and its impact on education and the future of work And then we were able to like pull these These panel members and that took us um, you know An analyze some a lot of the activity that was taking place In the workspace, which actually we you know, which kind of get us to about 34 different topics And then with the help of the really of the Pauling and the survey method. We actually ended up with um really 17 Main sort of areas uh topics of interest. Um, this was also guided on the three research questions You know the you know, and they they kind of vary on a high level these research questions focus on the promises of immersive learning On the challenges and on the catalyst and for that, you know that that kicked off our our authors As you know, brian process and I was very very fortunate to work with you With emory craig with johnson rickster and mark lee from ireland. So You know working on these um and kind of really writing sort of these the chat the chapters on each of these research questions um Yeah, so I think this is in each research questions. We highlighted Um The first one, um, of course being mine had seven categories, but all all to the challenges in the catalyst challenges written by you brian and catalyst by emory craig had six key areas where we found Either we need to work more or we we felt uh catalyst for innovation Well, thank you. Thank you. I think friends you can see what a what a buzzing and powerful report. This is Please grab a copy And while we have a chance to do so right now, I'd actually like to Take advantage of the opportunity to beam up one of the important people who made all this work This is a A leader in the field This is the head of the immersive learning project and the chief organizer of the report Jonathan Richter and we'll see we can get him now. Hello, Jonathan Hey brian. Hey, maya. Hello everyone. How are you? Good to see you. Good to see you. Where are you today? Where have we found? Uh, I'm in my office in missoula montana. Yeah, oh great. Oh great So this is one of one of the powerful things again about uh about about the uh technologies that we're able to easily have People from montana new york and virginia together at once John, how what did what did you see know the report in the world so far? What kind of feedback and what kind of surprises have you found from it? Well, it's getting it's getting a pretty good reviews. Um so far, which we're very thankful for A number of different teacher educators Have told us that they're preparing for use of it in the fall in their curricula And we're we're getting a number of people that are interested in joining The next expert panel as we have a full intention to to do this again and again Um So yeah, we've gotten uh, um several thousand uh downloads since our early release uh in the middle of may And uh, they they keep they keep rolling through every every day. Nice. That's a lot of reading That's a lot of people. Um, I would love to uh, I'd love to hear more about this I know you're in a hurry john. You've got to run, but I wanted to thank you for organizing the report And I'll keep you on stage as long as I can or I'll keep you involved But you know, well, um, you know, one of the things that we're that my and I've been really talking about lately is The potential for us to do sort of persistent environmental scanning And and really engage the network other futurists like yourself To to really, you know, kind of keep that search light The eye of saran on on the horizon So because this this space of xr of immersive learning is just constantly emerging and it really requires, um You know, I think a number of eyes Looking and translating the different uh possible uses and these new technologies to figure out just how Well, we might be able to utilize these across across the globe If anybody here wants to participate in this eye of saran project going forward What's what's the best way for them to find you? Is it uh from the immersive learning site? Uh, yeah, go to the immersive l r n dot org website Or you can get ahold of maya or myself Um at our respective names at immersive l r n dot org Very good. Very good. Um, well, I know you have to go Sorry, I should actually gently urge you off the edge of the balcony here And give you a chance to run But we'll we'll pick on you as long as you can be and thank you again for all of this and for anybody Yeah, my wife's waiting to head we're headed to a um red ants pants It's a country alt country music festival in the middle of nowhere montana So we're we're all set up and ready to go But I really wanted to say hey to everybody and and thank you for tuning in and thank you Maya and brian for all your incredible work. Well hit the road and enjoy and thank you again for all of this And I'll just put a link to this for everybody else. Uh, if you if you haven't seen this here is the Here's a link to the website if you'd like to join The next report if you'd like to get a sense of how it works, please Please feel free to Uh, and now we have time for questions from everybody and already we've got a question just right here ready to go And this comes from uh, andrew peterson at ferris state who asks does xr replace a classroom time Interesting question andrew all right so um So this is an interesting question and we we actually um live in an interesting time right we We had this pandemic where which we very actively a lot of us were experimented and indeed We went to these virtual worlds as a place where we can meet we can collaborate. We can create and make That said Usually when I approach it I look for the opportunities Right, there's as much time you can spend in a VR headset today Most of the time when I'm in my lab whether it's research or I work With with anybody on my team including students I kind of keep it to 20 minutes max So, um, really it's it's a just a you know, unofficial rule. I'd like people to take a break Um, it is still you know the headsets and headsets. I'm proving but it still has impact You know, it's kind of your eyes may get strained. We have all different sensitivities, etc Sitting with a headset. So, um um, and So this is just an official rule. I do but what it's really good at is actually finding an opportunity For example in the stem in the sciences, right? We have just a very interesting way to Observe science phenomena to be actually very close up and personal to science phenomena It's very interesting also to do research on a number of science phenomenons in virtual reality And so those tend to be you know experiences Um, we call them experiences because they're not movies like because you you are part of them, right? And that's why I really I really that for me is very important sort of Difference between anything you do on the screen um, and so those could be You know those could run you to different um science phenomena and you know can Ways to interact with them. It could be akin to what we oftentimes think about a simulation It could take on a more narrative form So all of these but sometimes these these are very good In a way we can address a particular opportunity with vr And then bring this whether it's in a discussion forum like this one or bring this to the classroom and the questions get exponentially better because um, we actually It's very you know, I can explain to you virtual reality today But it's the moment when you put on the headset and the moment actually after you take the headsets When the aha moment appear And um, you know, I just feel like I've been fortunate one of the things of getting thousands and peoples and students And that's when like you actually realize the potential of this But I do still see the opportunity in finding a key area whether it's in the medical science or you know social like social sciences or even sort of uh narrative, um, you know Education to to basically take us to places we can go go and then come back And and think and then at some point in the future, this will be very much a our meeting space It will you know, we are very much headed to this Learning and we already see it even in workforce in you know, some opportunities where you know Work for straining is now starting to take place in xr so, um, that's that's my kind of answer that That we have a really interesting opportunities, but today it's probably in indeed The the power is in making very key and targeted. Um, you know take advantage of these key and targeted learning opportunities Very targeted very focused on a particular issue and limited in time And uh, andrew what a great question to ask that really really pinned it down. Thank you Maya, what a great answer that shows how deep this is And and the future aspect we're going to circle back to I promise We have a few more questions and by the way overall, uh, we had some chat about people having a hard time trying to get to the website It looks at the website just reloaded and you should be able to get it right now So if you're still having issues, just reload the page and you should be able to get to it right now We have a question from John Fitzgibbon at boston college He narrows this down to a precise point. He asks what do you see as the role of augmented reality in higher ed? Yes, all right. Well, um, so this there is still, um, You know this perception and it really is a perception that virtual reality is about belongs to to the game You know the gamers the simulations maybe Some of these areas and also there is um, and I face it every day questions about well, what impact does it have on us? What impact does it have on for example younger children? um, and so augmented reality in this case You know is is something that um, I think teachers. I think parents. I think all of us gravitate towards it because it it it really is You know with augmented reality you put on glasses So you still very much in your physical world And you're just bringing that extra digital layer Again, you know you you can you know similarly take some of the advantages of bringing You know interesting digital assets Immersiveness narrative to to that space It also like with um, you know apps very importantly offers opportunity for students Even younger students to create and that's very powerful for students to be able to be engage and create augmented reality experiences. So certainly I see a range of possibilities and really with it it does have a little bit of ease in terms of Just purely of I think on the on the level of um, you know house perception how we perceive things and that that is I think why I think in particularly in with younger children. It is a much more adopted medium So I think that's um, that's sort of the short answer it offers. I think immense It you know opportunities and I do think that we will be I think the future is much more mixed The future will be something where perhaps, um, you know the headset or the the glassware or whatever we How we we have would be actually able to switch between you know, how much you see from the physical world And sort of that digital layer is kind of how close to you and immersive And so you might be very much, you know immersed in a fully virtual world in in some moments and in some moments Like in some of that light and the physical world come in Um, I I think that it's we probably will live much more Not so distinct as we live in today AR VR, but much much much more in that sort of mixed, um, you know reality plays Have continued them Yeah John that was a great question. Thank you And uh, Maya just really really lays this open for just how many ways this could work We have more questions coming in and one is from a colleague of mine at Georgetown Let me just bring her question up because this is a good one and I might ask her a question to follow Oh, look, uh, Beth asks, can you recommend AR development tools that are relatively easy to learn and use for faculty and students That don't have programming experience Yes, okay so, um, I mean there's been a couple of tools quite heavily adopted in education blipper and zapper and A steady, you know a steady amount of work in both k-12 and high education Um has taken place, you know more recently We and they both have educational sort of component to them They also have a visual interface meaning that they don't they They could you could enter more coding environments, but you can't be stay into kind of more in the environment that are Very much a visual interface Um adobe aero has come on, you know Kind of in the last year still, uh, you know in kind of beta a bit buggy But um, not sure adobe is kind of like with their suite of twos that it's coming along Um, it's a also a place, of course, like, you know, it's still that means access to a number of different adobe tools um, there's been With some of the, you know, sort of if you are more on the On the, you know, sort of with the younger generation. We also have, you know, and You know younger students. We've also used this jigsaw like sort of Workshop sort of app has been transforming in the number of different ways Um, and so these are these are really some some of the products that I think a number of teachers Have have gone and have some good experience Trying things out, but I would have to say, you know, going into any of those tools you have to understand how how, you know, how they're changing constantly and really Embrace that embrace that with it And being able to kind of bring the students along but really Things are changing. Like for example, last year we started in september with us a ways adobe aero Was working in through the semester. They released several different versions Um, and so that that's kind of the thing how things are happening Well, that's a that's a big landscape and a fluid landscape. That's involving very quickly Beth helps run the wonderful gelatin center for new media at georgetown Which is a terrific, terrific resource for everyone in that community. So I just want to give a shout out for that We also have the wonderful barrington veins from mage lardin who does great work with vr and 360 video So I just want to shout out to them as to barrington as well We have a couple questions and responses in the chat my One is uh, john Fitzgibbon says that all the composer is the way to go Yes, it is definitely it's a good two Here's my my pause on that. Um, and and you know, same thing with adobe aero actually brings me down Is that it's a it's an apple only two And we walk into classrooms that obviously students come with different devices But uh, yes, um, I do um, I you know, we you know, I think it should be explored and You know where students, um, you know where the project sort of is much more open And because access and accessibility is important, you know, some students can definitely Leverage it I had to make sometimes decisions in terms of how many times I teach ar in an effort to open it to everybody in the classroom And that's that brings us to some of the things we outline in the report like access and you know Interoperability and a number of these key areas, but um, yes, so we have to be mindful That's a real issue the silos are there and the I wrote about that in the report myself John good question or good observation to to mention. We have more questions. They're just coming in all over the place Um, and brent, I didn't know you're in Armenia. Fantastic. Great to hear from you. Please Uh, let the let the kids sleep. Uh, brent asked a question, uh, which is he says I've been claiming that this is the breakout year for vr headsets Since 2019 What do you think there will when do you think there will be real mainstream acceptance and usage? I think that I I do believe we are on a journey with this, right? Um, and I do think that this wild steer has opened the space for a number of people from both academia and industry um, but I really think about this as as a moment of When A lot more people will be able to create in this domain Um, and I think because it's just looking to and I really do that as you know, I'm very When I come to to technology. I really um, really kind of feel like in it would excel We need to look into older and other technology if anything I discourage that As as you know, Brian, but you know, just look into what happened With video once actually everybody had a camera Um in in their pocket or in you know Affordability to even even before it became you know on all of our iPhones But you know something that a whole lot of people can were able to afford and then share Into various other social platforms. I think this is when I think there is this moment of um A real breakthrough and I think in excel. We don't have to look into everybody has to have a headset But I think we we will probably go through the AR route because augmented reality glasses are going to become a reality They are already they you know, they are obviously pairs. There's just not a big ecosystem. There's not a you know, big Sort of movement behind them, but I do believe that we're very close in two to three years and and them becoming fairly affordable lots of different Um, you know application being written, you know made available and as as that like adoption to to actually make it make using every day life And I think that's that's sort of that's the moment where I feel like we'll be there Right and quick question. Good question. Um, and Maya, thank you for that very balanced Experienced answer I hope so. I hope so. We have more questions piling up though I want to make sure everyone gets a chance to ask we have one coming from uh, franny gata at the university of oregon Uh, who asks can you reflect a bit on xr as scholarship and present this scholarly record? Oh, thank you. Thank you franny for this question. So There are a couple of different ways to approach that One is and I'm going to kind of very quickly, you know, provide an experience like for example at the new school Uh, we have obviously Uh, you know parts of school of design and as such we have donated a number of artifacts Which is our sort of study collection for students like you can go to which a museum quality So you can go to a museum, but everything is kind of away from you But when it's a study collection, you can go and touch and see how they're made And so we have now a very big study collection of artifacts donated from museum quality alumni designers, etc And so in some respect and so we one of my first Experiences was actually to create a virtual reality library and we just did a prototype of that just you know We have thousands of those But idea that you know, then something that you know is sitting Somewhere in a catalog and then once you digitize it is available to students alumni potentially others across the world And then so this is a very this is one of the ways You know when you think about preservation and it is introducing a really a lot of questions, right? Because some of these are these are tangible like artifacts. They're made of fabric. They're made of you know, materiality to them And but also we're making them today Um, which is sort of the you know, one thing is how you you know You have the opportunity to preserve things that you've never been able to But on the other hand you also are thinking about well How do we actually make sure that this is going to run in 20? I don't know 25 even And so you're thinking about like, you know, how do you catalog all of these assets? How do you ensure that actually? If they're digitized today, they'll continue to serve in the future So this is one area but the other area in terms of scholarship And uh, you know making like a lot of things are taking I just gave you an example in what's happening at the new school in Parsons, but I know calling was the country a similarly, you know having you know experiences in STEM and sciences and medical education across, you know journalism Media studies, and so we we actually everybody's kind of keeping them on some, you know, it's it's There's not been a good actually way to share at the moment and keep and I'm very concerned about that because I have been involved in kind of like actually some Early on in my work through my work and experiences of bringing back videos from the 50s and 70s and this is a challenge today You know like 60 70 years later. It's a huge challenge to bring those this early move You know just not even early, but you know almost like mid-century movies to to to be a part of the cultural and and you know, sort of Research and and educational. So I think it's a big question in that part, you know, how how we Preserve that and there's no easy answer because we are so early You know things like more like research that is written research. It's still Text is we know what to do with text We just you know the the areas we work with the kind of hats ads and an experience It's it changes constantly Well, thank you for that searching realistic and bracing answer and and Franny Thank you for a really really important question Good luck, and we love to hear your thoughts as the director of digital scholarship services We have a couple more questions on the production side of xR And I want to bring these together. This is one from Devin Scarrett from southern New Hampshire And Devin asks what progress has been made in creating xR design and publishing tools to make it easy for non Political educators Opportunity youth to make xR experiences. So that kind of builds on our our AR discussion a few minutes ago right so Thank you Devin Very good question and one that I also feel very very much due to me As I mentioned like, you know students as creators is one of my key areas like some of the things I work day every day at the new school so I think I think we are Actually having access to some of the AR experience some of the AR applications are coming in 360 video is very approachable the 360 cameras today have gone down in price like And we get 8 8k quality out of them, which None of us how many of us are actually looking at 8k and you know these these things are these Cameras that are less than 500 hours can do that. So it's very empowering the tools You know exist for 360 edit a number of tools exist for 360 editing. Of course, we need to actually Be very much thinking about you know, how we introduce this to students and To that point of how we introduce These tools design principles There's a body that is starting to emerge in terms of sharing this boat in terms of Curriculum and more practical approaches and You know how we do that the tools themselves, you know something like Unity has you know, which is you know, oftentimes when you say unity people think Very, you know advanced coding It indeed it is an industry standard. So it's a very very deep software. It's a very and it takes time It takes time even for students that have invested already and have you know a background in media to To become comfortable with it. That's the truth like I you know, I introduce this daily to different groups so Obviously, but then they have created some plugins that are very easy for younger generation To create like a very quick simulations and games. And so I think it's a it's which is very empowering to see so Yes, there is definitely an industry standard tools that are very high and not as accessible and that's We see that in medical we see that in architecture, for example And some of these these areas, but on the other hand, we see tools that You know like mobile application We see things that you can run 360 editing tools that are becoming available You know that you can add you don't need a a big pc or a vr ready pc as we used to say You know unity and real both free for education But you need the right team to introduce it to students and I definitely think that that's something that is still We in high education don't I don't have the teams ready I talk to educators from across the country and and teams in in my in in similar positions And I often think this has become like somebody's third or fourth job To introduce xa and I think the institutions and the places where there's a very much a an effort in bringing those along and there's a team behind them Doing much better in understanding the landscape understand the opportunities with different tools introducing them to both students and faculty it is Very different approach in terms of both curriculum development and content development And those are all like a seminar or a workshop of its own Well, it sounds like I mean, there's there's a lot going in there And one of them is that a lot of this is team based You need to have multiple, you know, you need to have a squad Working on this. Is that is that what we should be thinking about that? It's a it's a collaborative team-based project to build stuff in xr in education Oh, absolutely. And I think that one of the things This is not a curriculum designer in a in a faculty. I think that's that's often I think some of the Where things slow down and I'm often asked what are the pitfalls? That's why you know, why is you know, why is there is not as much progress? It is a lack of teams. It is a lack of expertise. It is a lack of knowledge that We don't have readily in house. It's not just an education. It's frankly in many industries But we need to build those because you need you need people that will be, you know, producers and We'll be thinking about the narratives and we'll think about the user interface and the user interaction and the user experience and and and and at some we do have some instructional designers who have spent time in it But we have a lot of instructional designers that come from a much much more area of in a pedagogical sort of learning area That takes a whole new kind of Reset once you go to in person A lot of a lot of a lot of us in academia You know for two decades who have been working with video and we're very very good with video And one of the things is right this works in video should work in via No, actually you need these other people to come on the table to other developers You know user interaction you are like all these a narrative, you know All of the above to be at the table With the faculty and really being able to to kind of like be very much collaborative effort Thank you. That's uh, that's that's a really important takeaway from this And I think some of the participants here are actually playing that kind of role I see people from the university of michigan, for example, uh, who I think played that kind of role of Of creating stuff creating via a concept for higher education as part of a team In the chat, we had a couple of really good observations Brent followed up by recommending notes on blindness VR application gives one experience of what it's like to be blind And frannie followed up by saying since this is early in creating xr This is a great time to be thinking about preservation. Absolutely. Absolutely And bobby adds that she loves the idea of a VR library The new york times VR has a great piece of experience of being in a serif refugee camp And you can think of one as adhd. It's also great. Um, that's really really good Friends, we're we're coming to the last 10 minutes of the program I'll make sure everyone gets a chance to share their thoughts and ask their questions And they're just coming thinking fast right now And we've got one on from victor viegas Also to organ state who has a policy question There are some ways to make xr a da compliant And if you're not from the u.s. That's the americans of disabilities This is a question about accessibility So Right. So the good part is that we having more groups thinking about that Um, first I there are things, you know, just there are communities um from different communities that are coming from You know again a community is particularly able gamers You know, it's very ability projects that have looked into enabling Um Different other technology and now looking into xr. So there are also several You know several other groups looking into Creating a portfolio of design principles and then can be Implemented by developers or educate, you know, like, you know people Who are building xr experiences now? This is starting to come along and in the last year We've seen more of this which is the good news The not so good news is that we're still addressing those One thing at a time, right and we are looking for opportunities. For example, there's been One of the early things that you know, I saw people were able to do is that it's a most of our experiences I experienced best standing although you could be in the chair But there wasn't a particular there wasn't very well many of them were not taught up taught about in terms of What if um the participant, um, you know, the is Is in a wheelchair So this became one of the early things that um, you know, people can do in terms of adjusting the height and being able to do that And you know today we have some solutions and when we started this was this was like, all right I'm in a wheelchair and and everything is running like two feet above me um, so so there's been um, there's been some things that I'd explore by microsoft and You know google and facebook by different addressing some of it But we don't we'd really and I I want to be honest because I want more people to work in that We don't have um like solution for all different sort of uh needs that you know We see students coming into us. So what has been happening is defaulting is to Using narratives describing things um, if if your disability is however There's there's a wonderful opportunity which I saw firsthand like about two years ago. There was a student in my class with speech Um, particularly speech difficulties While this was very difficult for him to participate in a traditional classroom setting when we actually transitioned in a virtual world It was a whole nother place Right because we had other different ways to communicate there um, and He stood up um one of the moments that you know, you have these moments when you introduce something right? He stood up after the session and in just push himself through it to express that Even though I could you know, and it was a very touching moment So that we don't have a solution. We don't have an answer for everything But really we have a lot of opportunities to explore and more people should should enter that and work on that I Agreed agreed and I think this it's a great question asked. I'm really glad that you raised this Because this is going to be an issue that's going to play out all kinds of ways including justice social justice As well as the practical legalities of us um We are at the at the part of the session where we tend to focus more in the future And we try and push things that way and I'd like to invite questions about the future of xr Especially if you're thinking about say the far future of like 2023 um, but to begin with while I'm waiting for questions. I want to ask you one which is You mentioned that we might be heading towards a kind of xr future Um, and I've talked with you and I've made about this before in the past Is it that we may see some form of xr as a kind of default computational paradigm for us going forward So we set aside the laptops and desktops and instead spend more time with headsets and spectacles But where does what does this take us? in a few years I think it will be a few more years I don't think it's it's coming as fast. I think it it will be starting to to get more I think it's access will be getting more access to to these devices I do think a r will be very very powerful in that way But I think there will be room for fully immersive experiences And I you know even today like I think the best part of doing vr is when you create vr in vr And I know there is that's that's something Um, I think it's going to happen and we and we're going to play and live and work Um and collaborate and share in these virtual worlds absolutely Now how exactly That plays out. I think will be very different. I do and I think you know beyond the access point, which I think will Sadly plague us for some time Because this all runs on a you know really in a in a good, you know machines and a good high Quality bandwidth and these things are challenged. There's a whole you know not the digital divide can you know introduce Can be introduced in triple and multiple ways with this technology and we really have to think about that But I do think that as as a platform who be able to to to think and and simulate in prototype You know questions And find solutions in ways that we're not able to do on the desktop and much more powerful and with that power Um, yes, um, I would be using the the very you know often quoted Spider-man, but with that power comes a huge responsibility and it's true like, um, I think that's um, that's where we had it I do believe that this will be a these platforms will Exist will continue to evolve will mature And I do think that we won't be making choices to spend time with them. How we make those choices Is up to us. It's a real early. I think that one of the things people often think VR is being around But we're very very early and in you know, when you think about from sort of The breakout of of a technology So this may be one that just has a much longer development curve But we will exist there. We'll inhabit avatars. Our avatars will be an extension of ourselves We will meet virtual beings and they'll have profound impact on us They will know us better than our friends know us because they will know everything about us our digital footprint Will be, you know driven by algorithms. I don't want to even open the ethical questions And you know emory should be here for that and um, you know Like a lot of work in the last that I've been doing in the last Rear ear has been around the ethical questions So, uh, yes, I think the The point and being here and having this conversation is great because we need more people to be thinking about it to be raising questions about it to be Working at it and understanding That this will have a profound impact on humanity And this and all the other things this does it's not in a vacuum. So yes AI Um everything that else that's happening in the world like like a pandemic and other things. Um, we're all playing to that That's a bracing vision Uh and a bold vision and one of the many reasons I wanted to make sure that you come here to the forum again um, let me let me bring that a bit closer to earth in a particular way um which is What does the future trends forum look like in xr? You know say two years from now three years from now. How is it different? And I I'm not just asking that to be uh self-interested Of course I am but we have we had questions and comments along the way or people have asked about this Uh xr as a way of hosting classes and as well as holding meetings I'm curious. I mean, do we do we get to replace me with a very carefully curated algorithm? Uh a virtual being or do we have do we have multiple uh avatars that sit around a virtual environment that is different from what we're experiencing now How does how does the vision? So I will always say that I would rather meet you in person any day Preferably over lunch or some meal because it's always fun to share stories So I that will that will be my preferred. You know methods or like for some time But I do want to share something on that that you know, we as as I work with students and and people on my team Uh and very early on, uh, we have been experimenting quite a lot but makes reality So immediately I think month as we get home one of the things I was doing is making sure that all Hatsets get into somewhere get into students because I didn't want them to sit in in the lab And so my team, you know got a fair amount of of things that we can experiment and I remember um, just being like two weeks in and it felt like These three first three weeks felt longer than any, you know, we felt that You know, this was this was a very different You know way we live in but I remember being about, you know, really early on like probably in the first month after we Was sent home So to speak and I um had um You know, we kind of me and my very, you know cause, you know, somebody from my team we work together and collaborate and We use sort of the magic leap and we have a way to share like there's several spatial and other experiences and He beams right into my living room In an avatar form But I remember sort of the moment that we actually kind of were together again in the same space You know sharing, you know our space and me saying no, no, no, no, you can't go there. That's that's my living room That's that's my study like come this way. This is where the the area is And in the same time like, you know, we're seeing each other in our respective spaces It was really a moment of joy and I remember tomas and I just like not, you know, spending more and more time Just because that was the only the connection of being embodied In your living, you know, somebody who, you know, you know, well and you talk and you work together and to be being right in your living room It's it's very powerful many times more powerful than zoom And and so the future, you know, the future transform Will be me you and you know others being able to share the same space and just it's it's It's incredibly, I think emotional It you know, it's a it's a very, you know, it's a very big sort of pool and it's it's very exciting and it becomes much more It becomes very very real Well, it becomes very real in part thanks to the work of you, myla and everybody else working with you I'm afraid we're out of time. It's it's the end of the hour And I'm I'm just caught up with this vision of appearing in everybody's living rooms And all of you joining me here in my study. I think that would be fantastic Now Maya the the best way to keep up with you. I think is to follow the digital bodies net website And to follow you on twitter, right? Yes. I mean in linkedin. I do I do um Yeah, I do um kind of like Try to stay up to date. Uh, at least um in being able to share uh You know where I may you may meet me and and certainly always interested to hear your stories and what you're working on in your institutions with your colleagues and Really an opportunity to collaborate. I would say I am in New York City and with love love visitors But you know the times are a little bit different that hopefully in some near future You'll get to come and visit us at the person's school of design at the new school as we can Well, thank you so much Maya. You've been a fantastic guest. Thank you for a very practical visionary look in the XR Everybody else. Please keep an eye on on Maya and her colleague Emory and our friend Jonathan victor for all of their work in this Um, thank you so much, but don't go away yet. Don't go away yet because we have to talk about what's happening next on the future trends forum Uh, so and again, let me thank everybody for it really really good questions on this So looking ahead we have sessions on digital reading Improving equity for black students the educated underclass academic mergers open access and scholarly publication and rethinking teaching So just go to forum that future of education that us to learn more about that If you want to keep talking about these questions Like what does it mean to structure an academic team to build something in higher red with xr? Just use the hashtag Especially on twitter and you can tweet at me at bryan alexander Now if you want to go back into the past and look at some of our other sessions on xr Just go to tinyworld.com slash f tf archive and alongside those sessions You can find sessions in everything including accessibility and scholarly publication Now, thank you all for a great conversation. We're going to upload this shortly to uh, youtube So you'll be able to access it later on Thank you all for contributing your stories your thoughts from multiple continents and nations I hope all of you take care and stay safe this summer as you work on preparing for the fall And above all, please keep talking about us keep to please keep talking with us. We want to have this conversation going We'll see you online. Take care Bye. Bye