 Hello and welcome to the Launchpad. This is an offshoot of the Startup to Storefront podcast where we talk to the founders of companies that are just getting started and whose stories we find compelling. Today we talk with Rachel Henderson, founder of Project Sunscreen. The goal behind Project Sunscreen is simple. Get more people to wear sunscreen. It's not that putting on sunscreen is an inherently strenuous activity that keeps people up at night with anxiety, but there are friction points. Rachel broke these points down and addressed them by designing a product with a roll on application and without any harmful or irritating chemicals. Our conversation today covers how to prepare yourself for a lot of nose while fundraising, advice on how to get your product into big box stores, and the difficulties of growing while cash strapped. Hang on, hang on. If you're not subscribed, can you go ahead and do that right now before we get on with the video? It's all we ask, and we're back. Alright guys, welcome to the podcast on today's show. We're talking to Rachel, the founder of Project Sunscreen. Thanks so much for joining me. Rachel, tell everyone a little bit about what you're working on. Hi everyone. So my product, Project Sunscreen, is the first ever roll on sunscreen in the US and as far as I can tell, the first ever mineral roll on sunscreen in the world. We're very excited to bring it here. My mission is really just to get everyone to wear sunscreen, whether you're 100 or 100, and the rollable is sort of an easy, innovative, no mess, no waste way of putting sunscreen on yourself, your little ones, pretty much anyone. And I have the product here. I picked it up today at Target and just so everyone knows, this is a bit of a launch pad episode because you're literally in the process of raising capital and moving full steam ahead on taking your company to the next level. And so I'm always a big fan of that moment because it's scary, right? It's terrifying. It's very difficult, but at the end of the day, I think it's going to be pretty amazing for you. And so I have your product here. I got it at Target. You know, one of the things we always try to touch on is just share with people, you know, your why, like what made you want to start the company and why this is so personal to you. So I grew up in New Zealand and spent a lot of my adulthood in Australia. And for those of you that are not aware, New Zealand and Australia, you know, have stronger sun and the emphasis is very much on being very sun aware. Obviously, you know, changing the US is getting, you know, is heating up. Things are changing with the climate. And so I grew up very, very conscious of having to wear a hat sunscreen. You don't go out without it. And when I moved here with two small kids in tow, one and four, I found it hard. My kids were coming back with sunburn from preschool. There was no shade. They were sitting outside, you know, and as a parent, I had no control over their sun exposure in the middle of the day. You know, they're at school. So I think that I used to bring in a roll on sunscreen from Australia. It was chemical. It wasn't ideal. And I was using it and I had parents at preschool say to me, Rachel, where do you get that from? Like, that is so great. You can hold their little hand. You can rub it up and down and rub it in with one hand and you don't have your child chasing your child with all the zinc on their hands, trying to chase them around like little greasy pigs trying to grab their hand and they're slipping through and running away. Awesome product. Where can I get it? And so I was bringing in someone else's sunscreen here from Australia by the truckload. And I honestly just decided, hey, you know, what if we tried it here? You know, that was ultimately it. I tripped over myself because there was just so many people asking. And it got to the point where I had to give it a go because I had so much interest in my product. And that's how we were born. And, you know, our name, Project Sunscreen, it's a project. As a skin cancer sufferer, I've had four cut off my face. I have a very good dermatologist. So, you know, it was a huge cut right down my, I don't know if you can even see it in the camera. But, you know, right down here, I had a very, very small invisible, like almost invisible sort of fleshy bump. And I just know my skin. I check it regularly. And I went to my dermatologist and it was almost like, I told them, I said to them, I need you to look at this. And they're like, it's OK. And I said, no, no, I need you. I need you to try to take it off. And I was coming back from London and I got a phone call from my dermatologist and she basically said, it is a skin cancer and you need to come in. So, yeah, so it's very personal. I'm a mum. I have two small kids. I'm in a new country where sun awareness is not as there. And I have skin cancer and I have a public health background. So I'm actually educated in this sort of field. And so I team with a friend and a fellow dermatologist and brought in her skill set. You know, she's a dermatologist. She knows her stuff about sunscreen and skin care products. And I think we make a formidable team. And that's how the Project Sunscreen was born. We see it as a project just to get everyone here to wear damn sunscreen. Doesn't matter what color, tone, skin, what age, even if you're not fair and high risk necessarily, it's still aging. And I don't think any of us really want to look like a dried up room. So I kind of feel everyone should be wearing it. I certainly appreciate your story. And one of the things that we always are always deeply, deeply impressed by is when founders literally make it their life mission to solve a problem that they dealt with. And I think across the board on all the founders we've had, that's been the one data point that I can say like Nick and I have heard over and over and over and over. You know, the way I think about it is it really is the thing, it's the ingredient that makes them figure it out and keeps them going in year five, six, seven. Because years one through three go by really quickly and to some extent they can fizzle out. But the true founders that are trying to solve a problem that's deeply personal are the ones that somehow always find a way. They just have that extra little bit of energy to get them through it, which I think is really important. As you started going through the process of making and starting to create a product, you know, one of my favorite questions to ask founders is, what did you uncover as you're realizing like, oh, all these companies are marketing it this way or this is bogus or this is completely false advertising as it relates to sun protection. What are some of those things that you started to uncover here with the US market? When I first started, I bought every single mineral sunscreen off the shelf that I could find. When you said mineral sunscreen, what's the difference between mineral and regular sunscreen? So really simply, I mean, mineral has two active ingredients. They are zinc oxide and titanium dioxide. Those are the two, only two ingredients. That is your mineral sunscreen. You will have, you know, inactive ingredients to help it roll out and rub in nicely. But ultimately, when you're looking for a mineral sunscreen, if you turn over the back of the ingredient panel, it's your zinc and it's your titanium dioxide. And the other difference between mineral versus a chemical is a mineral sunscreen actually sits on the skin. So it isn't absorbed into the skin like your chemical sunscreen. So often, you know, people think they have to sit and wait for 10 minutes before going, you know, 20 minutes before going in the water. With a physical sunscreen, because you're putting it on your skin and it's there, you can actually just go in, get in the water. So the kind of the difference, I love the minerals just because I like to think that they sit on my kid's skin and nothing is absorbed. So I pulled out every single mineral sunscreen and I put it in my empty bottles and I tried it. And what was really interesting for me here is all the claims. In Australia, if you wanna claim anything, you have to have research and you have to have information behind it. You just can't go and make claims about things without having anything backed up. And so I quickly realized that because my product was one of a kind, because I have something very innovative, I really wanted to make sure that everything I did was backed up because I felt that if I wasn't gonna get in trouble with the authorities, I was gonna get in trouble with my competitors because they would find something that perhaps I hadn't done right. So I really, my emphasis on very much, everything we claim, we don't claim anything that we're not, we are very transparent. And I see across the board, a lot of that is just not happening. For example, sprays seems to be very common across companies where you get an SPF 50, when you do the testing and it comes back and they say the SPF rating is 50. They will put it out as a 50, but they'll also market it as a 30 because you can do that as long as it's below what it was approved. So a consumer can go into a store and think, oh, SPF 30, awesome. I'm going to take that because I really don't think I need SPF 50 protection or maybe the idea is the perception out there is that SPF 50 mineral because there's more zinc or titanium dioxide in it, that it's gonna be thicker and it's gonna be harder to rub in. So those are the sort of things that I just look at and I go, oh my goodness. And that is why my product, I have two formulations. I have one in market right now. And I believe that a mineral sunscreen is like a recipe. There's only so many which ways you can put it in. So my mission was why not create a beautiful formulation that rubs in nicely and try to keep it within a good price point, which is difficult. And then mark it to my audience with my labels. And quite frankly, I don't mind what's on my label as long as it's not offensive and it's engaging to that audience. So I launched with two babies and four kids line and those four kids came from my heart. There were two designed by my two kids, the little blue one, old fun and games. It has surfboards and skateboards. My son was into that at the time. And my little aqua one, which is making waves, which has the orca whales and all the marine life because my daughter is a real animal, really loves marine life and animals. And the other two were designed by my co-founder. And we call them our four little personalities because they were, it's about making that sunscreen come alive. It's about branding to your audience and trying to make it simple and easy. So I feel like that is what I don't see here is the transparency. It's the love it's trying to engage with people and really ultimately I'm trying to make it easy. And I don't see that with some care, especially here. It's difficult. It's messy. It's not that innovative. You know, one of the things you touched upon was the difference between SPF 30 and SPF 50. And that's something that I think is kind of coming into the public consciousness. There's not really that much of a difference is what I've heard. One thing I've always heard is that there's no difference in terms of protection level between SPF 30 and 50 and like past a certain point sunscreens don't really do too much added protection. Like SPF 100 is not necessarily worth it because you can get the same kind of protection from SPF 30 or 50. What can you say about that in either confirming it or debunking it or just spreading some knowledge our way? So I mean, firstly I'll say, you know my co-founder probably could answer that probably very specifically in terms of numbers. But what I understand and believe to be true is that, you know, the difference between SPF 30 and SPF 50 is very, very slight. And considering every directions on your sunscreen you should reapply after, you know, two hours. If you're doing that correctly, there probably isn't a huge difference in the sun protection. I use SPF 50 because it just gives me that little bit of extra added protection but ultimately an SPF 30 is also very good especially if it's applied correctly. I don't know about the hundreds. Honestly, I don't know enough about the science behind how they get to that number but I do think just the journey that I've had the SPF 50 is very adequate especially if you're reapplying and you know, there's that balance between having an elegant sunscreen and something that perhaps is maybe a slightly higher SPF but can be very difficult to apply. So I think it's just finding that balance. Yeah, so I suppose the answer in short is there is a slight amount more protection. You know, slight more protection but not a heck of a lot more between the two. Right, so if you're being diligent about reapplying it, it really doesn't matter. The re-application is the real key thing to take note of. The question I have around sunscreen and this is always the question for new products, how do you guys decide pricing? You know, it's a competitive market. I go into the store today at Target and I'm looking at all of the sunscreen that's basically an entire wall. It's a massive wall and on that you're seeing pricing and marketing at every single level. And so when it comes to your product, is it because there's minerals, does it make it more expensive than just traditional lotion? How did you think about formulation and then how did that dictate pricing for your product? And then obviously there's competitors and so walk us through a little bit about how you arrived at your dollar amount. Yeah, I mean, it is difficult. With the larger stores, they pretty much will dictate often what they want to sell it for. And then it's kind of a delicate dance of trying to sort of meet in the middle somewhere. For us, the price of $16.99, I mean, I've got to be honest, I came in here in my first year and I did a competitive analysis. I looked at what was on the market and I'm not an expert in this. And as an entrepreneur, I live and learn. So I looked at them and I felt all we have innovation. I spoke to people that were a little bit more knowledgeable than me. And then we backed in based on what it was costing us to make. And then we added, you know, your typical margin. And then obviously anticipated what the margin would be that the buyers would want. So I think my packaging and everything and my cap topper sort of made our product definitely more challenging to price, you know, in a way, perhaps a little bit less than what I would have liked. But ultimately that's how we come to it is really just trying to make sure that we make at least a little bit of money as we're trying to scale. And it's interesting, I've lived and learned. Like for example, I have two formulations like I mentioned. The other formulation I have was a zinc formulation and it's beautiful and it's very elegant and it has niacinamide and has licorice extract and some beautiful formulations. And the error I made was I launched both into the market at the same price. And what I realized was that I couldn't afford to have that zinc at that price. So, you know, I had to reevaluate and that's what I'm constantly always doing and learning about price and understanding the market. So yeah, 16.99, we feel looking at the competitors look at what they're offering. We felt that was a very fair price going in. And also it's easier to drop your price than increase your price. So we felt we wanted to go in at a price that we felt was fair. But it may have had some negotiation room or if need be. But ultimately that's kind of where we felt it. It's difficult, you know, quite honestly. Target has you for like 20 bucks, 20.79 or some weird number like that right now. We set the number of recommended retail price and obviously it's up to retailers how they want to price that. You know, obviously we don't have input into that sort of discussion. For entrepreneurs that are sort of listening and figuring out, okay, how am I gonna get my first deal and how am I gonna get into my first store? You know, if you could just share quickly like how you negotiated that, how you finally got into Target, pros and cons on each side. You know, I have a little bit of experience but I'd love to hear your take on one getting in and then some of the challenges outside of this pricing issue that you mentioned. So I think for me, quite honestly, it's being yourself and I think if you really believe in your product and you have a really genuine story, then it's so much easier. Like an example would be I went and pitched to a very large grocery store here and when I walked in and I just started talking, the buyer stopped me and she said, Rachel, you sell without even meaning to sell because you speak with so much passion and you really believe in your product and it's so well thought out and it's easy and it doesn't leave anything to guess. You can look at it and you understand, you understand. So I think ultimately to have a story, for me, the way I try and look at things is I work out where do I want my product ultimately? Like what is important to me? And then I seek about trying to figure out how to do that. Now in today's world, it's really difficult. So with my first one, I went to a sun care conference and it was a speed dating a sun care where the people would come in and out of the rooms and the way I won my first ever large scale groceries, my first ever customer out of the door, I went into 2,000 stores straight off the bat was that I just tried to get inside their head and think that going in and out of all these rooms, they're sick to death of just being pitched to and I was like, I'm gonna create an experience. You open the door of my room, there is a coat hook with a backpack with beach bags and on each of them is all my sunscreens hanging. It hits them in the face, they can see, oh my God, look how it's used, that's super cool. It's painting that picture. When you walk into the room, right along the back of the room, I had a full length, big standing poster of all these kids casually walking down a walk street from where I am towards the beach and they have a lacrosse stick and a bike and a backpack and a golf club and a tennis racket and a soccer ball and all it said was sunscreen for everyone, everywhere, every day. You know, most of the time we remember to use it at the beach. So you're messaging, it's been very clear about where you wanted to go. That woman walked in and I said, look, before I start speaking, my two kids designed the kids product, they are not here but they wanted to share something with you and they made a video. My daughter said, I like to face paint, my name's Olivia and William, I 60 seconds to surf and he puts on his sunscreen, he runs into the water and you know, we really brought in those kids. So I think it's trying to really get a buyer to understand what you're doing and why should they? And she just straight up said to me, I'll take it. And I was like, oh my God, now I've got a, I'm like a duck paddling. And I think from then once you get in somewhere and you really work hard and you build that relationship up, I then got a lovely article in the Beauty Independent. And I just talked like I am with you guys just about my experience. And I had someone from Ulta just ring me on my cell phone. And I've been really fortunate that way. You know, it's just, I think it's a combination of being yourself, trying to think outside the box, trying to get into the head, trying to figure out what is it that buyers want? And I think with Target, you know, a lot of its connections, a lot of its understanding, you know, I have a wonderful sales strategist who has experience. She was an ex senior Target buyer. So she was able to guide me through the process and was extremely helpful. So I think a lot of it's like, a lot of it's being there at the right time, a lot of it's press, a lot of it's just talking to a ton of people and trying to figure out how to do it. A lot of it is just reaching out cold and trying to find emails of the various shops that you're trying to get to. A lot of it is no. A lot of it's no. You just gotta keep going. What are some of the things that surprised you? Are there any data points that you can talk about that like maybe you didn't think this was your buyer then all of a sudden you're starting to see like this demographic or maybe this gender, maybe men care more about skincare or sunscreen than you thought before. What are some of the like the things that have just surprised you about your customer? I have, as I mentioned, a son at the time was nine and he used the blue roll-on sunscreen. He designed that. When he got to 12, he said to me, mom, I don't wanna use Project Sunscreen Kids. That's lame. And I was like, you know what, that's so interesting. What if I designed something for that tween, teen, that was too cool for school and but I still wanted them to wear their sunscreen because that is a really difficult age. And what I'm gonna source is nothing being marketed to teens, to those young teens. And so I launched again, gave it a go, Project Sunscreen SPFU. SPFU, wow, okay. Cheeky, we call that cheeky maybe? A little cheeky. Yeah, it's a little cheeky. I got my attorney calling me and said, Rachel, just before I submit this name, I need to be really clear that it's SPF for you. And I said, of course, what else could it possibly be? You know, whatever, you know what I sort of laughed. And he said, okay, that's cool. I've had the conversation, it's all good. So my teen line, I launched, I had very little money to sort of put marketing behind it but I do believe that, you know, coming up when I have a little bit more money behind me, my son designed and looked at graffiti, he's really into graffiti. So I did a graffiti one, I did a tie dye one. I got into those teenagers and I asked them, what do you wanna see? What's cool? I'm, you know, I'm in my 40s. I don't know what a teenager wants. You know, I'm not cool anymore. And so that is kind of something that surprised me is they are wanting out, that they are wanting to use a new hip product and it's trying to really get in there and try to understand that group of people. So I think that demographic is interesting. And the festival, I did a festival line and I do have another one in my full range this season which is brand new. I had no money, I had some great friends with some good connections at Coachella and I did a limited run of my festival line and I said to them, I've got no money, just go there, see what you can do with it. And they Instagram the hack out of it, they put it up here and put it out there and in front of the wheel and I sold out my product, I sold my product out. So, you know, there's these kids and teens and youth and young adults that are looking for something that they can engage with. And I think that's where I'm at is, you know, trying to engage. That certainly seems like a potential massive market if you can penetrate it correctly. But it definitely sounds like an opportunity because I've never actually considered it in that way. I've considered like adults buying sunscreen for kids and then adults buying sunscreen for themselves. I had never thought about the teen market so that could be an interesting time. And this kind of delves into the next part of the conversation which is around fundraising. So you're in the midst of it now. So you and I got connected through Brooke who's over at Good Milk. And so fundraising, there's two ways to look at it. One, you're just collecting nose and then the more nose you get, eventually you get a yes. And then there's a whole another way of looking at it which is kind of like, well, it's gonna suck. And so let's just gear up for this horrific Mount Everest time and get through that. What has it been like for you as you're going through fundraising? One of the things we like to do is expose the truth of entrepreneurship. And so you can be candid here, tell us the good, the bad, but what has it been like? What's the hard parts? Is it finding investors? What has it been like in the early days of it? This is my first go. You know, prior to this, I did friends and family and I had a lot of very friendly family who were willing to believe in my product and put money behind it. I gotta be honest, you know, during COVID it's just been hard. Like, you know, we had a lot of returns. We had to pay for a lot out and it was nights where I just, I stay up worrying about it. And so, you know, we had to fundraise a little sooner than what we planned. And holiday time, January, horrible. Like, you know, and people are nervous about, you know, CPG and our retail is gonna be open. And, you know, and a lot of the time the feedback was, you got a great product. We love it, but we're going to tech because it's a bit scary, the whole retail side of things. Or there's been a lot of nos. And I think that's what I've just found so hard. And I feel like I'm a natural people person. I think I've got a great story. I always ask for feedback, you know, please give me some feedback. Please let me know if there's anything you feel that's missing or anything I can be doing. So fundraising is hard. I do not like it. I've had some great conversations. I've got people out there that are willing to invest. You know, we're waiting for our lead because, you know, sometimes people wanna wait until someone else starts. So it's been really hard. And it can be very, you know, sometimes I wake up and I'm just like, can I just give my company away? Like, I don't wanna do this, I'm over it. The other challenges that, you know, we've launched into Target. And when I say to people, they're like, fabulous, that's so great, you know, awesome. And I'm like, yeah, but what my goal is, is to be able to support that business. And that's what I need money for. I need money to grow. I have an awesome pipeline. You know, I need money for R&D. I have a great team. And I need dollars for a great team to help me. And it's walking that fine line between we're gearing up for summer, we should be spending, we should be getting ourselves out there. Yet I have to be very conservative until I'm sure that we have enough funding to be able to do what we wanna do. So that's the difficult thing as a founder. What do you give up? You know, I had to, I have a wonderful PR person. And you know, she's awesome. And I'm struggling without her. But I had to say to her, look, I'm so sorry, Alan, but you know, I just need to take a little break. I don't want to, but I have to. Because I just, I only have a certain bucket of cash. And I think that's the challenges of fundraising. It's finding that balance and it's not easy. Yeah, some of the things we talked about, and I just wanna recap it, or at least the way I think about fundraising, at least from your perspective, if I put myself in your seat is, there's a good and the bad. The bad is during COVID, everyone's inside. And so putting on sunscreens, probably at the very bottom of everyone's list. Now, however, that means massive opportunity, right? Because at least you know your bottom, literally. Like you know the fact that, look, it's a pandemic, everyone's inside and we're still selling. And this is kind of our lower limit, let's call it. And so it's only upside from here. That's one way to look at it. The other thing we talked about on our call was just about your story. I think the founders that, and this is the hard part because so many people don't wanna feel vulnerable or it's hard to be vulnerable in general. And so connecting to the why you started your company is tough, right? And so in your case, you're literally a survivor of skin cancer. And so this is deeply personal to you, but sharing your story on let's say your Instagram for your product is very frightening and very hard. But I think from the way, and this is kind of the advice I gave you, is like if you do that, people connect to it because now it's not just another sunscreen. It's not sunscreen anymore, right? It's life. And now it's life, it's talking about the protection of self and ideally avoiding any sort of cancer. So that's another part of the story. I love the teen part. That's something that we didn't talk about, but the teen part of it I think is really interesting. And I think it's gonna get the, at least from my opinion, like my ears perk up when you mentioned festival sunscreen. Like that's an amazing opportunity. And another thing that's only gonna go up from here, right? So we're at zero today, people are inside and it's only gonna go up. And clearly you have some deep intel given your son, which is great. I mean, you have like your own litmus test that lives within your house. And then obviously target just shows momentum, right? The target and getting in stores shows momentum. So fundraising is hard because it's almost like you've baked a pie and now you're having people try it. And really what they're telling you is, oh, you're missing a few ingredients. And so then you gotta go back into the oven, bring some new ingredients, different measurements, but typically new ingredients. And then you go, okay, how's this one? And then they're like, oh, okay, this is starting to smell or taste or look a little bit better. And then it's just like that fine tuning process is tough because it's basically like you're in front of a mirror all the time and it's like not that comfortable. And that's true. And your point on being vulnerable, it's like I am pretty protective of my product and I live and breathe it. And sometimes I just have to sort of step aside and go, you know what? I talk about my product, but other people that I'm speaking to are hearing about it for the first time. Am I really doing myself justice by what I'm talking about? What motivates an investor? What is it? Why would they invest in my product over something else? And I think those have been the really hard questions for me. I'm like, for goodness sake, this is so easy, what do you mean? It's roll on, I've got a place for a name, a place to attach us to a backpack, it's visual, it's colorful, like we've got traction, what else? But there is more, there is more. It's your messaging, it's your brand, it's your identity. And to your point about me, I tend to hide behind the camera and it's right. I mean, when I do a video and I look at myself and I'm like, oh my God, I'm so goofy, but I'm gonna put it out there. I get so many people reaching out. I did a post and it was difficult for me. I did a post, I've got some images of my scar and when I first had it done. And I put it out there and it was like, yeah, I was scared. You know, I think we're all a little vain and the idea of putting that image out there, it's gonna be out there forever, like nothing ever. You know, even if you delete something, it's still there. It is a reminder, but it's something I don't necessarily really want to keep remembering. And so, you know, when I put it out there, I got so many lovely messages from people. You know, it makes me really teary because, you know, people reaching out and just saying, hey, like the other day, yesterday, I did a post and one of my old friends from Australia came in, she said, oh my God, Rachel, I love that you're what you're doing. You've got a great story. You know, my husband had a melanoma, he's just had it taken off and you're doing a great job and I just love what you're doing. And I was like, oh my God, I need that. I need someone sitting next to me every day, whispering in my ear that sort of stuff because I think as an entrepreneur, it's lonely at the top, you're on your own. You know, especially even now in COVID, this is my box that I work in and I'm not engaging with people and it's so lovely when you get those comments or it is lonely at the top and I miss people and I miss the engagement. And learning from other people. Yeah, no, I think it's amazing and important to do that. I can think of a few people, we had Colleen, who's like a fitness professional, kettlebell expert on the podcast, asked her what life has been like for her during COVID and oddly enough, she became a trainer because she had various abdominal surgeries and so she had to regain strength in her core and she puts that out there. Like she puts pictures of her scar and it's a constant reminder for her and she looks at her scar in a different way now, right? Or it's like, it's the reason that she is a fitness expert now and it changed her life completely and made her think about the food that she eats and how she performs this weightlifting and how she can share that with the world. And at the same time, it's like not only is she a fitness trainer, but imagine that's your trainer, right? Who's telling you like, hey look, look what I've been through, you can do this too, stop complaining. I mean, that's the ultimate badass thing and so I think leaning into that just makes sense. Let's talk about your vision for the company like three, five years, 10 years down the line. What things do you have in store? Where would you like to take it? Growing up in New Zealand and Australia, I've always been a lover of the ocean and I got married on the Great Barrier Reef on a beautiful island in the Witsundays and I'm an avid diver. I love getting into the ocean and so my emphasis always been on trying to create something that I put as little as possible into to make it effective. You know, I wanted it to be reef safe. I wanted it to be ocean safe. I don't want it to hurt anybody, you know, or anything. Sort of building on from that, my focus with products coming up is sunscreen here is seasonal. I wear it every day, but people don't and so, you know, I would love to explore the idea of some products that are complimentary that we could sell you around. Maybe a good face sunscreen, something that you can pop into your purse, put it in your car, you know, that smaller that it's just there, you know, for you to use. And, you know, there's other ideas to sort of compliment that we're sort of toying around and we really haven't put a definite in there. There's many ideas, you know, could we design something that's a product that are all for one, you know, to just use with one hand. For kids and stuff like that, there's the kids range, there's focusing on sun, there's focusing on the big thing I know I'm gonna do regardless of what direction I take is looking at single use containers and trying to figure out how do I make my product so that it isn't single use. And we've got certainly a lot of ideas sort of behind the scenes trying to figure that out. I think that's just so important. And I think the challenge here in the US is that even though products say they're recyclable, a lot of the time, if the materials that join them or, you know, in the product are different, you've got to separate out, you've got to wash it. And then even if you take it to a recycling facility, sometimes they just don't take it. And then what do you do with it? So it's almost like we're all trying to recycle and make ourselves feel good, but are we? And I think here the answer is probably, yes, we're trying, we're on the way, but I think the US is definitely behind like where I'm from in New Zealand. Packaging is awesome. I go over there and I'm on my happy place because there is so much innovation in terms of biodegradable products, things that you reuse. I bring a suitcase back of stuff every time I come back, just all these awesome products. So I think that's my overall direction is moving in that way to be eco-friendly. If you can capture even just a little bit of changing a single use item into a reusable item, I mean, you could really revolutionize the entire market because you're right, that is something that as a country, we do not do very well. Recycling itself is oversold to us and not nearly as effective as we'd like to think. And there is a market there that consumers are catching on to where we see it with, we've had a couple of companies on this show like Blue Land who leaned in hard to this reusable aspect and not just a single use item. So I think that's a very lofty but admirable goal. And if you can accomplish that, you will have succeeded in a big, big way. Yeah, and we have, I have something that I potentially could use even now. It's just, it's strategy, it's money. And, you know, I'm in touch with a really great packaging consultant out in New Zealand. And I've said to her, I need baby steps in the US market. I need to start and realize that as a little company, I have big ideas and big aspirations, but I've got to move with the market, you know. And be able to just take those baby steps and grow and continue to grow and just have that vision. And, you know, I look at what happened, you know, the stores that I'm in and the success that I've had so far. All the mistakes and picking myself up and learning from them is that ultimately, if you really believe in something, I always think there's always that internal part of you that will just keep leading you that way. You know, it may not be exactly the way that you had initially thought, but if you really believe in it, I think you just got to pull on your big girl boots and strive to do it, you know. And it's resilience. It's being resilient. Well, listen, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. You're hearing a little bit about your story and the hardships, the truths, the upsides. It'd be great if you could just share with everybody a little bit about where they can find you, both your socials, your website, all that good stuff. We have, you know, obviously our website, ProjectSunscreen.com. We're on Facebook, Project Sunscreen, Instagram, at Project Sunscreen. We, as I mentioned, launched and targeted earlier this year into some specialty stores, you know, within Target, Amazon, Anthropology Online, and then obviously coming this season, you know, we'll have a lot more that are just out for a review right now. We're getting out there and we're shaking up the world of Suncare and trying to make a difference. I love it. Best of luck to you. I hope everything goes well. We've rooting for you and thanks so much for coming on. Thanks guys. Lovely to chat and thank you for taking the time to hear a little bit about us.