 Hi everyone, welcome to this week's episode of what the episode is going on in Latin America. This is Code Pink's weekly webinar of hot news out of Latin America and the Caribbean. We broadcast live on Code Pink YouTube and we broadcast at 12 p.m. Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific every Wednesday morning afternoon. This week I'm very very honored to have with me two gentlemen live from Managua. We're going to talk about to the 41st anniversary of the Sandinista revolutions among the achievements, some of the challenges, and then what Nicaragua and the US can look forward to in the future. But first before I introduce our guests, I'd like to let all of you know that today's program, today's celebration of the Sandinista revolution is cosponsored by Code Pink and six other wonderful solidarity organizations with us today, Alliance for Global Justice, COHA, the Council on Hemispheric Affairs, FOLA, excuse me, Friends of the ATC, FOLA, Friends of Latin America, the International Committee for Peace, Justice, and Dignity, and Task Force on the Americas. So we're very pleased for all of us to be broadcasting this episode, and let me introduce our guests to all of you today. Live from Managua, Dr. Paul Oquist, he is Minister Advisor to the President for Public Policy, and also joining us is Dr. Valdrick Janoski, Minister Advisor for International Affairs and the Greater Caribbean. Welcome gentlemen. So honored to have you with us this morning. Thank you. Thank you very much. So, well, no, it's it's an honor for all of us and in such a particular moment in world history and also great celebration day coming up on July 19th for all of you and Nicaragua. I would like to just outline for our audience how we'd like to see our conversation go this morning, and then Dr. Oquist, I'll have you start as we mentioned earlier. So for our listeners and viewers, what we'd like to discuss today is a fourth segment conversation. We'll talk about achievements of the Sandinista Revolution. Some of the main challenges that the revolution has had to contend with. We'll talk a bit about COVID-19, the pandemic, and how the Nicaragua government and society are responding. And then in closing, we'll talk about what the vision for US foreign policy would look like if we were had a more friendly policy towards Nicaragua and towards the hemisphere as a whole. So welcome gentlemen and Dr. Oquist, I hope you can start us off and maybe give us a brief personal anecdote as to what life was like for you before the revolution and and then post July 19th 1979. Thank you very much. Well, my personal experience starts my very first day in Nicaragua, which was the 27th of July of 1961. Having graduated from Belmont High School in Los Angeles, California, my best friend in high school to myself, with another fellow, we drove to Nicaragua from Los Angeles to Nicaragua, and we got in about three in the morning on that day. So we slept until noon and when we were having brunch, his cousins came from Leon, who were Rigoberto López, Rigoberto Samson, and also Oscar Danilo Rosales Arguello. These were the members of the Director of Body, the Coon, of the University in 1961. In that morning, they had commemorated the massacre of Nicaraguan students on the streets of Leon in 1959 on that day. Then the next day, another Nicaraguan student had been killed by the by the Guardia. And so they had commemorated that in the morning, and they came to Managua for a mass at the School of Economy, followed by a little political meeting, and we were coming out. There was a lot of Sosobra, there was a lot of stir it up people because the general Samosa Battalion, which was the elite group at that time, was at two blocks in every direction. And the people who were trying to leave were coming back with their shirts bloodied because the paramilitary, the Oregas, as they were known, were hitting them on the head and breaking open their bleeding skulls. So then there was an ambulance comes down the street at full velocity. With the street full of people. Then a jeep of the Guardia comes on the other cross street. So that was the Samosa street clearing operation. You send vehicles at full speed down the street and the people trying to get into the doors and things. Then there was a second stir it up of the people, stirring up of the people, because the Guardia was moving forward. So everyone started going into doors, into stores, into houses, and we went back into the school. As soon as we were in, they closed the doors and put on the crossbar on the on the colonial door. And all of a sudden they shot. You could hear the shooting. Everyone fell to the floor. Seventeen years old me, I thought, well, you know, they must be shooting at the air. The people aren't doing anything. But everyone fell to the floor. So I did too. And then you heard the clank, clank, clank, clank. With the big M1 rifles from the Korean War, they were shooting through the door. And then there was these folding aluminum chairs. And it was going through the backs of the chairs. One, two, three, four. And they fell to the floor. Then I saw the greatest propagandists I've ever seen in my life. Never saw them again. But this fellow with the people under fire picks up some scrap milk from one of these bullets having gone through the chair. And he holds up a little bit over his head. And he's out on the floor too. And says, So we decided that that corner was a little dangerous. And so we went across the floor infantry style or baby style, whichever you wish. So another door we crawled across or they came to another street. They opened up the door there and they looked up the street and down the street. And the fellow said, there's Guardi at two blocks in this direction. And there's a two Guardi about half a block up this way. We decided to leave. So our group, the door was open. We went out. They closed the door immediately and crossed the street into a gas station where there was a Canadian journalist who was trying to figure out what was going on. So we started to fill him in when one of the officials who had been at the half a block came up to the door we just came out of took out his 45 automatic and emptied into the door. Bum bum bum bum until the clip fell out. That impressed me very much because if we would have reached that door a little bit later, we could have run into him on the other side of the door. From there, we went to the hospital. I will finish shortly, but I want to finish this. So we went to the Retiro Hospital and there were a doctor who at risk of his own life had lost it. But he continued working. He was picking up people and he was shouting. A la gran puta hasta cuando vamos a aceptar esta dictadura de mierda shouting at full volume cursing the dictatorship and what it was doing to the people. So there from there we left and we went to a place called Cremolano that had air conditioning and we drank a few beers to recapitulate the adventures of the day. Then we came back to my friend's uncle's home where we were staying at about three in the morning and that was my first 24 hours in Managua. So I had a full dose of Somo Sismo 101 the first day. And an experience with the National Guard trained by the U.S., one of the most terrorist-oriented National Guards in the Hemisphere. Welcome to Managua. So Mr. Daki, maybe you could, Janowski, maybe you could share with us a personal antidote as well. And then we can talk about some of the successes that you've seen since the Somoza regime. I don't know if I have a specific anecdote. But my recollection of the Resilient Revolution is coming to study to Managua from where I grew up, which is Corn Island and the Caribbean coast, and going into secondary school at the last grades and from the age of 13 and 14 and getting invited to do what I call a social drama, you know, about the social issues and entering from then, little did I know that that was sort of a recruitment mechanism or a consciousness mechanism for the Saninista. So from that very early age, but from my generation, it was that very early age that we got involved in the struggle against dictatorship. So this little young boy from Corn Island, where we sort of, after the Caribbean coast, where we basically live in peace and love and coming and getting a deep understanding of the contradictions and the injustice that was in the country. And from there on, understanding the need to continue the struggle. I think more than an anecdote, I speak for my entire generation, young people from 12, 13, 14 years, having to put on our shoulders the responsibility of overthrowing this dictatorship, and we were able to do it. I think that speaks volumes, not just for me, but for my entire generation of young men and women. I'm sorry. And women, yes. Well, I would like to add a postscript to my anecdote. The 27th of July of 2011, I was celebrating the 50th anniversary of my first arrival in Nicaragua, and I was having a meeting, a working meeting with President Ortega. So I told him that my brother from California and some friends were at a restaurant waiting for me to celebrate my 50th anniversary of arrival in Nicaragua. Then I told him the anecdote that I, more or less, like I told it to you now. And he said, I was there. And the hair in the back of my neck stood up. He was a 15-year-old member of the Federación de Estudiantes Revolucionarios, the Federation of Revolutionary Students, and he was on the floor when the guardia was firing in through the door. So the two of us were on the same floor the same day, 50 years before, about the same hour, about the same time, true. And that was quite eerie. And then I told him, I said, and who would have thought that that 15-year-old high school kid would become President of Nicaragua on two different occasions? And much less probable even than that, was that I would become a Minister of Nicaragua, that 17-year-old kid on that floor. Well, and like was referenced earlier, it's an entire generation of young people. And I have to say I want to reinforce the role of women too, because so many of us outside of Nicaragua look to Nicaragua as an example of including women in the revolutionary battle militarily as well as in roles in civil society as well. And it makes a huge impression on many of us. So can you tell us, why don't we briefly discuss the immediate novert successes of the revolution? And then also let's contrast that with some of the challenges that. Well actually quite obviously that the 19th of July, 1979, represents much more than just to change the government, to change the regime. It's the end of the Samosa dictatorship, which de facto began with the treasonous assassination of Sandino after he had had dinner with President Sacasa and came down from the hill from the Loma de Toscapa and was intercepted by the Guardia headed by Anastasio Samosa. And with the connivance of the U.S. Ambassador, Blaine Liss, he was he was assassinated. And that began de facto the Samosa dictatorship, although it began officially a couple of years later. And that was then the end of that regime and the end of U.S. domination. Because with that Nicaragua became a country in which had regained its sovereignty, its independence, and its right to self-determination through the victorious struggle in the countryside and the urban insurrections of the people of Nicaragua. So this is very significant. It's a major revolution in the history of Latin America and in the history of the world. Immediately, the new government began basic policies such as the national alphabetization, the literacy crusade, the literacy campaign, in which 95,000 students and teachers and health workers went to the countryside to teach 406,000 Nicaraguans how to read and write with the literacy, illiteracy rate going from 50% to 12%. Then also there was the undertaking of the agrarian reform. There had been a great concentration of land and Nicaragua during the dictatorship. However, the early success in 1981, Nicaragua was the fastest growing economy in Latin America, albeit from a very low initial base, but it was the fastest growing economy. And the CIA, under the President Regan, immediately began to work on the overthrowing the new government. So the counterrevolution began. They started organizing the ex-guardias. They started recruiting on the agricultural frontier. They had a one faction of the Miskito people who organized in Yatama arose against the government also with the financing and organization of the CIA. All of this was clearly demonstrated in the case Nicaragua versus the United States military and paramilitary action in and against Nicaragua, which on the 27th of June 1987, Nicaragua won. And it was found that the United States had directly attacked Nicaragua by mining the port of Corinto and attacking naval stations in Potosí, Corinto, Porto Sandino, San Juan del Sur, San Juan del Norte. It was also an attack on the airport in Managua. Then there was the organization financing training and logistical support for the Contra that had been attacking Nicaragua from Honduras. At that time, the United States was ordered to pay Nicaragua compensation of $17 million at that time. That now is at current billion, $17 billion. Thank you. $17 billion in compensation. That now at current prices is over $40 billion. And if we would add interest at Libor, it's $144 billion. So the United States has not paid that. What it has done is continue the aggression against the Nicaraguan people continuously in the different stages of the period. Another great achievement is democracy. For the first time, the Nicaraguan people were taken into consideration beginning in 1979. For the first time, they were top priority in terms of national policy, programs, and plans. And for the first time, there was also democratic elections in 1984. The FSLN also was the first political force in the history of Nicaragua to turn over power after an electoral defeat. That was in 1990. And for 16 years between 1990 and 2007, in January 2007, the FSLN undertook a loyal constitutionalist opposition against new liberal governments that were characterized by gross corruption and privatization, rampant corruption in the second government, and extreme weakness in the third. But it always played by the democratic game. And we have the appreciation of all of the foregoing, plus also of the increasing achievements of the revolution in this period since 2007 with the electoral results in which the FSLN and Comandante Ortega received 38 percent of the vote in 2006. In 2011, it received 62 percent of the vote. And in 2016, it received 72 percent of the vote. So you had this huge increase in support for the FSLN. On the very first day of the government, on the 10th of January 2007, President Ortega declared the restitution of the right to free and universal health and education in the second poorest country in Central America. You have the fact that this was contemplated in the 1987 Constitution. That's why it was restitution. But the neoliberal governments, egged on by the United States and the multilateral banks, got into cost recovery. Cost recovery in education, cost recovery in health, and so it was anything but free. And this was exclusive. This excluded poor families with multiple children from being able to get the necessary education or to get necessary health care or to get an operation because you had to bring in the periodic material to have and be able to have an operation. You had to buy medicines and so the poor were excluded and people died as a result of this unfortunate policy. Another major achievement was the conversion of Nicaragua into the safest country in Central America. With the community police or the community police strategy where the neighborhoods and the rural comarcas were involved with the police and setting objectives and achieving them, Nicaragua came to have the lowest homicide rate in the region, the lowest car robbery rate. I used to say in Latin America until after a presentation in Spain at the Carolina Club of the big companies, they had a monopoly. The insurance company came up to me and said, Paul, that car theft rate in Nicaragua is the lowest in the western hemisphere. So it's just an indicator. Then you have another indicator of how successful the social programs were. And that was that you recall that a couple of years back there were unaccompanied children arriving at the U.S. border. And here I mentioned this because we have the statistic from the U.S. Border Patrol and it was like 17,000 Guatemalans, 13,000. These are rough figures, but it was in that neighborhood 15,000 Salvadoranians, 13,000 Hondurans and less than 200 Nicaraguans. It was day and night that there was faith in the future of Nicaragua. And this also because of social programs that capitalized the poor. So there was the restitution of the political rights, but also restitution of economic and social rights programs like zero hunger in the countryside and zero usury in the cities, which is the microfinance that we all know love or hate. But in Nicaragua, it was zero usury and faithful to its name. It wasn't charging 30 to 40% like the microcredit NGO was charging 5% per annum. And so the accumulation would go to the small merchant or the small artisan. And some of these ladies are on their fourth and fifth alone as they capitalize their small businesses. I would have to finish not because they're running out of time, but we're considered to have the fifth best highways in Latin America according to the World Economic Forum. But the really interesting data from the World Economic Forum that I think is something that is really impactful is that there was a gender gap index applied to Nicaragua and that in 2007 Nicaragua was 90th in the world and the gender gap index of the Davos World Economic Forum. And that's perhaps what you would expect in the Latin and Latin country in which there's a lot of patriarchal culture. But by 2018 and 2019 it had risen to fifth place in the world. The only countries ahead of Nicaraguan that entered a gap were Iceland, Norway, Sweden and Finland. Even Denmark was behind Nicaragua. So Nicaragua would be the number one of all the developing countries in the world and number one in all the non-Nordic countries of the world in terms of having closed the gender gap index. There's many more things that could be said but we run out of time and that's a sampling of them. And I think that this last figure is not only indicative of the inclusion of women, but the inclusion of the indigenous and afro-descending people of the Caribbean coast of the poor in general in Nicaragua. So Mr. Jansky that would be you, someone from the Caribbean coast from Corn Island. Maybe you could share with us some of the challenges the government has had. The achievements have been extraordinary and just a personal antidote as far as security in Nicaragua. I have traveled Latin America the last 40 years principally as a single woman and I always come back and tell my friends, you know, Nicaragua is the safest to go and people think of the years of the revolution and that it must be very, you know, unsettling there and it's so peaceful and very calm and you feel very, very secure traveling through Nicaragua as a tourist and as a female tourist. So let's take a few minutes and talk about some of the challenges that the current government is facing. Some of the successes have been enormous and what are the challenges now taking the country forward? Thank you very much. Before getting into the challenges, the successes as you mentioned that we have had and we have a culture of not blowing or haunts too much. We have a culture of not going out there and talking too much about what we're doing and I don't know if that's good or bad but take for example what you mentioned, the autonomy. Nicaragua is the leading country in the world in terms of autonomy, autonomy law, autonomy, the advances that autonomy has done for the rights, the recognition of rights because autonomy is not given, it is a recognition of the rights of people and there is a balance, two ways of autonomy, autonomy and progress. You can have a lot of discussion about rights but you need progress and you can have a lot of discussion about progress but you need rights and I think in Nicaragua the balance has been on the Caribbean coast but also for all of the Afro-descendant and indigenous population in the country, a recognition of their role and their rights in the society. We don't talk necessarily in terms of majority and minority, we know we are probably a small part of the component of the society but in terms of participation in decision-making which is a very important issue in public policy, decision-making in public policy, indigenous Afro-descendant population, we sit around the table and I say that proudly, we sit around the table where decisions are taking around major policy and you know Paul also spoke about the gender gap, gender parity, women in Nicaragua sit around the table and decide, it's not tokenism which is another another angle of the discussion and you know it's just we're going to get some women in government in order to show that we that they are participating and we're going to find an indigenous Nicaragua-descendant. I think there is a core component of very a profound participation, I don't know if that's the word to say, of all of these sectors that are in the majority of societies whether they're Northern or Southern societies are looked on as least let's say in a way. The other thing I was thinking when Paul talked about the Carteft, Carteft is one of the most pure indicators for crime. Why? Every single person in the world that whose car is hijacked has an insurance and has to denounce it there and has to report it to police. No one who owns a car that gets stolen cannot not report it. So that's why that indicator is so important because it tells many other crimes go unreported, many other crimes go unnoticed, many other crimes go invisible. That one in terms of showing criminality is so they talk about it as the pure indicator. Now getting into the challenges, I think the challenges that we face are the same one the country face since independence. It's the dichotomy between the oligarchic entitlement and the popular movement. oligarchic forces and you can see how that runs right across the entire history of the country and an oligarchic who also sets itself as the stepping stool for foreign intervention in Nicaragua. So you have oligarchic foreign intervention versus the popular movement and that is why as we celebrate the first anniversary of the Sandinista revolution, that's why Sandino is so important in our history and in the history of Latin America and in the history of the world. Why? Sandino is the first leader of the popular movement, that is the first uprising where a leader from the popular movement leads the process. Sandino's confronting U.S. intervention. Of course we had the National War in 1856. Of course we had the Knox Note, if you remember the Knox Note where Philander Knox, that was his name, right? Philander Knox, the Secretary of State of the United States in the early 1900s sent a note to Celaya and said you either stop building the canal or I will intervene you and I will Being Secretary of the mining company in Nicaragua and representing the owners of that mining company also, it was a tremendous conflict of interest. Yes, talking about the purity of democratic forces in the north. But anyways, so yes we had uprising, yes we were patriots, there were people who defended the country from foreign intervention. But Sandino is the first time that someone that comes from the popular movement and the popular movement itself confronted and defeated and runaway, I don't know if that's the word, U.S. intervention, are the Marines in this case. And then you find from Sandino to the Sandinista front for national liberation, which is the other element of the popular movement that came to power then in 19, in 1979. So you find that line of the reactionary stepping stool of foreign intervention oligarchy, which are also, which also is incompetent and incapable to lead the country toward progress, which is what the other important element of what we did in the 1980s and what we have been doing, we have been doing since 2007. We have shown the world that the popular movement is capable of governing and is capable of delivering two elements that are widely, widely spread to be said that anything that comes from the popular movement is incapable to govern, to govern. We showed in the 1980s that even under the most ferocious intervention, I mean, people forget that the U.S. Congress appropriated a hundred million U.S. dollars a year to finance the war against Nicaragua. People forget that our ports were blockade. Paul spoke about that when he spoke about the Court of Justice ruling, the National Court of Justice ruling. People forget that our crops were destroyed. People forget that every single thing that we were able to build in the most remote areas of the country, whether it was health care centers, whether it was schools, whether it was roads, whether it was telegraph or telephone poles, were destroyed by the U.S. intervention. That's why it is so remarkable that synthesis that your friend on the floor said, this is U.S., this is built in the U.S., every single destruction. When you talk, when you talk about challenges, that's the fundamental challenge. We have an incompetent, incapable, and subordinate oligarchy and a constant interest. Now, people talk, what is the interest of the U.S. today? It is revenge also because we were able to defeat the U.S. Marines and expel them from Nicaragua. I finally remember the word expel them from Nicaragua, right? We were able to do that. So this generation of hawks in U.S. policy cannot condone the fact that Sandino and the Sandinista movements twice were able to defeat U.S. intervention and expel the U.S. Marines, whether it was in the 1930s or with Sandino or whether it was in the 1980s. So then we come to the new phase of challenges, which is the same thing. That's why I try to set it up as that the economy between the popular movement and the oligarchy slash foreign intervention forces. So then you come to these times, and the weapon of choice, it's not the M1, it's not the Garand, it is the economic. Exactly. Illegal, unilateral, coercive measures. We don't call them sanctions. That is why you see me trying to use the sounds illegal, unilateral, coercive, coercive measures. That is what we call them because it's illegal and it's unilateral. The economy, that's the new challenge. So we faced war. We faced live rounds of war as a challenge in the 1980s. And every single effort that we did in the 1980s to get all of those great things that Paul spoke about in the 1980s and the war, even the democracy that Paul spoke about, we went through the elections in 1990, which had gone to our heads. President of the administration, President Bush said the day before the election or the weekend before the election that if the Sandinistas won that election, war would continue. Which Christian in this world would go and vote for a party who they are threatening the most powerful country in the world is threatening to continue war on them, go vote for them. And we still got something like 47% of the votes to show you how embedded the popular movement are the Sandinista is in the people, in Karawan people. So that's a 1990 election I'm talking about. So we were able, and I think that achievement, that achievement of losing an election is not only the first time in the Karawan history that power was transferred peacefully from one government to another. That happened in our history. But it's the first time in the world that a national liberation movement who came to power by arms, surrendered power, gave up power in by elections. I think those are the elements that speak loudly about our democratic essence. The Sandinista front is and has been one of the most democratic forces in this hemispheric natural of the world. We understand clearly the importance of democracy. But the new challenges have to do with economy. And it has to do with the continuous destruction. Because what they want to continue demonstrating is that we are incapable to govern. And what we have demonstrated, both in the 1980s and in the 2007s, this last decade between 2007 and 2007, is that we are the most open, democratic, inclusive and progressive force in this country. And the achievement that Paul spoke about, what we achieved between 2007 and 2017, this country and those indicators are fundamental. Gender gap economy, gender gap parity, I mean, is another one of those pure indicators. Because it has to do with access, it has to do with inclusion, it has to do with respect, it has to do with so many, it has to do with economic empowerment, it has to do with decision making in public policy. It's a very multi-dimensional indicator. So when you say that Nicaragua went from number 90 and 90, 90 in 2007 to number five in the world in 2017, or in 10 years, you are saying that all those other elements that has to do with women participating in the economy, with women participating in decision making, with women being elected, with women being safe. You spoke about your experience. Safe, being safe is a right, which doesn't exist around us in this region. I mean, it's very unique. But you don't build it overnight. It has to do with something that I think is maybe very current of what's happening in the States. It has to do with community policing. Our police was recognized and has been recognized up until the coup, or the attempted coup, as one of the most successful police because of its method of community policing. It's a police that's not based on force or coercion. It's based on community relations. And that method was destroyed in the attempted coup. You know, it's very, you mentioned the community police, and I don't have to say again, relating to my personal travels through Nicaragua and throughout Central America specifically, but South America as well. You are as a tourist, as a traveler, as a solidarity worker. I've never felt afraid to approach the Nicaraguan police. You can tell they're of the people, and it is a completely different energy and personality that they exhibit when they're on the street. And they're not civil servants or military that you're afraid to approach. It's very, very unique in the hemisphere. And I would even add, in the United States, it's unique that you're not afraid to talk to the police as a traveler. Except in Los Angeles, California, where I grew up, where we were scared stiff of the police. Now we are. Can I just say, there's a couple things that Mr. Jansky mentioned, well, both of you actually, the incompetency of the oligarchy. And I think for those of us who watch Latin America and people throughout the world, really see that playing out in Venezuela right now, the complete incompetency of the U.S.-backed oligarchy there, and the attempted failed coups one after another that are happening there. And also with unilateral coercive measures. And I just want to, I wonder if we could just have a little more intensive conversation on that for our viewers, that sanctions, unilateral coercive measures is basically being used as a tool of hybrid war by the United States right now. I don't think there's any other way you can classify it. It is a form of warfare. 39 countries are suffering under unilateral coercive measures in one form or another. I think we're seeing Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, and North Korea the most extensive, but Venezuela as well. And those coercive measures encompass 33% of the world's population. So it is a huge... Over 2 billion people, over 2 billion people, that 33%. I mean, it's a phenomenal number. And it just gives some perspective as to how far spread this form of warfare is. And then also... Could I might add something to that? And it is that if you look at that, those illegal coercive measures applied in times of pandemia, they affect the systems of health that protect the population. And according to the statute of Rome, article seven, numeral one, literal K, that is the definition of a crime against humanity to impede the health system for the people who need attention. Well, I think we could argue it's just a form of genocide. So while we're talking about this ability for a government to help its citizens fight the pandemic, let's talk about briefly what the Nicaraguan government is doing for her people at the moment to battle COVID-19. We use our masks. We have our gel. When we came into the building, our temperature was taken and our hands were sanitized coming into the building. We walked through a shoe bath also to disinfect the shoes. Coming into the building, the tires of the car were also sprayed. And so we have all of these protective measures. Our baseball league is now playing baseball without an audience. It's on a live audience. It's on television. And so measures have been taken, but Nicaragua at no moment has gone into a, a lockdown. The reason for this is that 40% of the population is rural. And, you know, in the months of April, May, June, well, the people in the countries have to go out for everything. They have to go out for water, have to go out for firewood, have to go out for the chickens, have to go out for the cows. But also May is the prime planting month. April, May, June is the planting season. So they have to plant the crops. Then of our urban workers, 80% are in the informal sector. They make a daily income. And if they do not make that daily income, there's no food on the family table. So to protect the poor, Nicaragua did not do a lockdown, but rather all these other measures we're talking about. What have been the results? In terms of total number of cases, Guatemala has 29,138,000. Salvador, 9,900, that's almost 10,000. Costa Rica, 8,000. And Nicaragua, 2,411. In terms of deaths, in terms of deaths, we're also less than the other countries except Costa Rica, which only has 31 deaths out of 8,036, which is a compliment to its health system. But it's also a compliment to our health system that there's 91 deaths out of 2,411, which is the second lowest in and the five Central American Republics. Private schools have been given permission to go to online education. And most all of them have except those subsidized by the government. Public schools are operating. And the reason for this is also to protect the poor. Because the middle-class kids go home. They have a nice home. They have a desktop. They have a laptop. They have a tablet. So if there's two or three kids, they can all do their online classes. A poor kid goes home. It's probably, it could be a home that's overcrowded, like a cuertine, where there's several families living in a couple of rooms. There's no conditions there. And there's no computer either. So to go to online education in a very pure, poor country is to sacrifice the poor children. And Nicaragua will never do that. So the public schools are working on a normal basis, but also taking stringent measures to protect the population. As a matter of fact, as more and more countries come out of lockdown, they face the same situation as Nicaragua. How to live with this, how to combat this, and operate as a society and operate as an economy. So I think everyone is dealing with the same, the same issues. We were dealing with it earlier and with, with decent results, not good results because there's 91 people who died. So no one is very lamentable. We've had 2004 and 11 cases of which only 321 are active, which is an indication that we might be over the hump, but we really don't know. But all the precautions are being taken, but the poor are being protected. The poor are being given priority in this. You're one of the things, of course, I'm sorry. I was going to add two things. Ask about the, how the government is managing people traveling to Nicaragua. My understanding is a pretty stringent policy in place as to who can enter the country and therefore controlling who can carry the virus into the country. And also we've had some very controversial reporting in U.S. mainstream media, specifically the New York Times, about massive burials in rural Nicaragua, burials of, for people who have died from the virus. So I wonder if you could talk about both briefly and, you know, entering the country. I think on a great number of countries, the people who died from the virus are buried immediately and you do not have funerals. This is not something that's restricted into Nicaragua. And that's the case in Europe. That's the case in the U.S. In New York City. In many places in the world. But, you know, we have this constant media and social media campaign undertaken by the U.S., which there should be no surprise of anyone, because President Trump, Vice President Pence, and Secretary of State Pompeo have all declared explicitly that they want regime change. They want to overthrow the governments of Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua. And so they failed in their April 2018 coup attempt. But that doesn't mean that they have ceased and desist from their covert operations, which continue. So they grab on to anything and everything. Every day there's false news published about Nicaragua. And it's a real race to keep people informed about the reality of the country is, because they have a lot of resources and a lot of people who are experts on how to manipulate the social media. Another thing I just wanted to add that we're on this media manipulation. It's a huge joke in Nicaragua when the United States gets upset by the possibility that maybe a foreign power might have intervened in a U.S. election. Because the United States has intervened in every Nicaraguan election that there's ever been. And in all of the Nicaraguan elections since 1984, the U.S. has actively worked to try to defeat the FSLN, organizing the opposition, choosing their candidates, financing them, guiding their campaigns, and sometimes campaigning very openly for them. Ambassadors passing out packets of grains with the USAID logo on it. And then there's been psychological warfare operations also to try to defeat the FSLN. So their intervention has been constant and massive. So why don't we take the next few minutes? Both of you have been so generous in your time. We're rapidly approaching an hour of conversation. You've mentioned U.S. election interference. Maybe we could spend a few minutes talking about what going forward, especially considering the United States has presidential elections in November. And perhaps an opportunity for those of us activists on the ground in the United States to help voice opinions. Well, I just wonder what we here in the States could advocate for a new U.S. approach to foreign policy in Latin America. And that is, I should let our viewers know that we do have a campaign within Code Pink called a new good neighbor policy in which we are working to influence U.S. foreign policy towards Latin America, make it more humane. I would say the number one issue was recognizing national sovereignty. You know, I would like to say just one thing and then turn it over to Valdrak to wrap it up on this point. I wish to congratulate you on your campaign about sanctions kill because they do. They do. And it is the crucial point. Moving forward, they have to be lifted. They're illegal. There's no basis for them in international law. They violate international law and they drastically violate international law in the times of a pandemic. And you know, they even sanctioned the police of Nicaragua who defended us against the people who were doing the roadblocks and kidnapping and torturing and murdering and committing arson. And they sanctioned the police for, they take these measures against the police as such an institution for having defended us. That is, that needs to be lifted as the quid pro quo for any improvement in relations that is so onerous, so illegal and so ridiculous really to penalize the police for having protected the population. Valdrak. I think we call them, we call them aggressions also, you know, these illegal and unilateral measures. The first thing I wanted to mention when we were in the last segment is that this is part of a whole psychological warfare. You know, you spoke about what the New York Times said and what mainstream media says. This is built. I mean, say you go to psychops 101 and you find where this comes from. The so-called opposition because it's not opposition. These groups, we call them coup mongers, went to their OAS, their OAS even before we, this pandemic started in Nicaragua to try to accuse us of not doing anything. Nicaragua was one of the most prepared countries. In the middle of our limitations, we started preparing from January for the pandemic. And if you came to Nicaragua, you would remember what probably, if you came from the States, they won't, but anyone who came from a country with square, where yellow fever is endemic would also be asked to present their card. This is for the last five, six years. We have a very, very disciplined approach toward health protection, because we know prevention is cheaper than attention. So we are prepared, but there is this psychological warfare constantly being waged upon us. And this thing about thousands of people dying and thousand of night burial, I think that was the piece of color. Yes, that's exactly right. It's simply a lie. And politics is a comparative game. They even published pictures of the Goya Cure Cemetery alleging it was Nicaragua. Yes, I saw it. How far the fake news goes. Photos from other countries in South America. But as I said, this is comparative. Look at countries in South America and countries in our own region. Really, really dead people are piling up. And look at the country where we don't have that. Now, we said from the beginning, this is true. This is for real. It's going to affect people. People are going to die. So we have to prepare for it. Nicaragua was the best prepared country for two reasons. One, between 2006 and 2020, 18 hospitals were added. Health workers went from 20,000 health workers to 36,000. And doctors, medical doctors, went from 2000 to 7,000. So we had increased and strengthened the health system in those years. Thank God we didn't have this before 2006 when we were much less prepared. And from the very first signs in Wuhan, the Ministry of Health started organizing and started designating hospitals to attend the people of the pandemic or the epidemic that was going to come. And measures were taken two months before the first case arrived in Nicaragua. So we were not caught by surprise. We were fully prepared. And the health system had been strengthened in the course of the government to be able to cope with this and other things. And with regard to the transportation, the airlines aren't coming. We're waiting for the airlines to return. And the airlines, of course, are linked to the tourist industry that brings in the tourist industry. We're very interested in the airlines returning and starting to bring people who wish to visit Nicaragua. And this other angle of like about we not allowing Nicaraguans to return. Last night we had something like 157 crew members from the cruise ship industry who came into Nicaragua as part of a repatriation process that has been going on. Now we have to take our measures. Number one, we have to know if they're Nicaraguans for real. Remember, we are under attack. We don't forget that. And that's where I want to go into the other segment, which is where we move forward. We are code-painting the solidarity movement. We have to recognize that Nicaragua is fiercely under attack. Nicaragua continues to be fiercely under attack. They have not changed. The interests of that oligarchy and that foreign intervention have not changed. What we are going to do, we are going to continue doing things as how we do things in Nicaragua. We're going to continue moving forward. We're going to continue investing. We're going to continue strengthening our democratic process. We are going to continue in our logic of self-determination, you know, logic of sovereignty. We are not dictated by anyone. But I think that is a very important thing that we can do together. We can educate people. The same way we did it in the 80s, we can do it today. I think there is a saying, I've heard this, that sanctions, we call them aggressions or unilateral measures are only applied to individuals. But look at the individuals. The minister of finances, who is a brother for descendant also himself, the minister of health, the minister of finance, the minister of health, the minister of transport, the vice president, the police, the chief of the army. The sanctions are on people and institutions that serve the people. It's a hindrance to governing the country. The tool to stop governing the country. And then the police as an institution has been sanctioned. Yes, but I'm beginning by the individuals and I go to the institution. When you sanction a bank, or when you, I don't know, there's a word for agreed, but when you go against a bank, which is a bank that was investing heavily in financing poor peasants, you are crippling the ability of the poorest sector of the country to receive. Because our relation, Albaniza and Bancorp, our relationship with Alpha was very, very, um, um, gain, gain relationship because we were able to finance through that banking system and those social oriented funds. We were able to finance the poorest sector who is not bankable according to the banking system. They are not banker because they're too poor because whatever. So we were able to finance that sector to grow crops that we could then exchange for the oil that we were purchasing. It was a gain, gain situation, a gain, gain mechanism. So that sector, that is how we were able to lift an enormous amount of, of, of, of Nicaraguan Campesinos because because of the revolution in 1980s, those Campesinos had, have land, but they are in threat of losing it because of the, of the, of the banking, uh, of the banking system. So they were unbankable. So we were financing, we are financing that sector. So it's, as I say, it's, it's, it's, it's a ganar ganar. It's a win-win situation. So when we talk about where we move forward, also we have to look at not only eliminating this method of using, of using unilateral measures or aggressions against, because when you, when you, when you cripple the minister of finances, you are crippling the ability of, uh, carrying out, uh, loans, contracting loans, I mean the minister of health, you're, you're crippling the institutions around it. It's not the people, it's who they represent. So actually they are, they are carrying out measures against the ministry of health in the middle of a pandemic, against the ministry of finances in the middle of a pandemic, against the minister of transportation. Nicaragua, Nicaragua's boom in transportation are in, in, in infrastructure in general, which has to do with telecommunication and transportation is enormous. And, and, and, and Paul, uh, Paul's expertise in climate change oriented policies. I'm gonna say our, our, our policies around, uh, green energy around, um, uh, renewable energy has been recognized by everyone. So when you hit these institutions, it's not the person who you're hitting. You're hitting the institution. You are actually, uh, stopping our possibility of continue growing in renewable energy. So that is what they're doing because they want to stop the progress. Well, they want to, they want to stop the state's progress. Now, and we're, we're going to 90% from 25% to over 70% and we're going to 90%. The coverage of electricity and households, which has a tremendous development effect, educational effect on others, has gone from 54% in 2007 to 97% now. Practically every Nicaraguan household has electricity as a result of the work this government has done. And the Davos World Economic Forum says we're the fifth country in Latin America with the best highways. That's going to achieve too. I can, I can attest to that. I, I've been on those highways and I've had photos. Sounds like you've been driving to San Juan del Sur. You need to go to the police now. I, I, I do. You are absolutely right. But the first time in history, we can drive to Bluefields. I'll, I, I, I propose to drive you. That is historic, historic connectivity, historic connectivity. So what it is we can do together. That is, that is, I think the, I think we need to fight to lift the sanctions for sure. You can help us get the word out. This, this intention to destroy, destroy the, the, the revolutionary example from the very beginning goes to trying to destroy the character of the revolution from 2007. From 2007 on, since we came back to government, la prensa in Nicaragua, the, the, the, who, who, who, who synthesize the narrative of the right wing in written constantly referred to our government before everything 2007 as an illegal government. Since we came to government because it's a character assassination. And I think many of us have fallen for the, that narrative. I think we need to get the word out. And that's why I like this continuum from Sandino and from history to today. It's the same thing. You know, you know, I was in Europe with three interviews and different media at the time of the coup attempt. And people invariably asked me why Nicaragua, Nicaragua has been doing so well. It was the third fastest growing country in Latin America and the Caribbean in terms of economic growth, reduction of poverty from 48% to 24% extreme poverty from 17% to 6.9%. And, you know, success can become a target. You can become a target if you're successful. And I started saying some things recently in US history. Wilmington, North Carolina was the most successful city in reconstruction. There was a black newspaper. There were black professionals, black merchants. There was a fusion political party between the whites and the Afro-Americans in Wilmington, North Carolina. There was a white mayor and there were Afro-Americans in the city council. They had members of the US Congress who were Afro-Americans. 2000 white supremacists did it in. They had to flee the town. They burned the newspaper. They burned the black section. There was a massacre. In 1921 in Tulsa, Oklahoma, the black community was so rich it was called Black Wall Street, the commercial area. And that was it. And the greatest massacre in the history of the United States was a racial massacre. Well, the ones with Indians were a racial threat. Anyway, one of the greatest massacres of 300, over 300 people killed and the black wall street was completely burned down. The people in Miami and the Neocons and the right wing and the Trump administration, I think, look at us the same way. They do not want a successful left-wing government in Latin America. That doesn't go with their plans for the region. Well, you're not a good example of neo-liberalism. With full spectrum dominance as their objective. You're not a good example of neo-liberalism. You're working for the people. So I wonder, gentlemen, please finish your comment. And we're approaching an hour and 15 minutes. So I would like to have you finish your comment. And then I'd like to invite both of you to come back for a more in-depth conversation, certainly about the economic growth in Nicaragua, but also some of the climate change initiatives that you've been addressing specifically on the Caribbean coast. But let's leave that for a future conversation. And please, please finish for us, Mr. Jansky. There you have. You have a full one with those two or two different ones. They're both well-chosen topics. Well-chosen. Well, you're both so knowledgeable. It'd be wonderful to maybe we can too. I think my closing message is help us get the word out. Sanctions killed in Venezuela. Sanctions killed in Cuba. And then you killed in Nicaragua. And then you had one on the Caribbean coast also, which is extremely interesting of all that's happened in the Caribbean coast of Nicaragua. The autonomy, the demarcation and titling of land, the regional governments, the territorial governments, that's worthy of another session. So going forward for U.S. Nicaraguan relations and really pretty much throughout the hemisphere, it's very important for us as U.S. citizens to advocate for the U.S. to recognize national sovereignty. I have to excuse myself. And this highly mobile world, I have to go to Europe right now. I think we're going to close now, Paul. We'll give us two minutes to close. I'm 20 minutes late for a conversation with Europe. Two things. Just give us two minutes and we are close together. But I think the other thing what you said about the U.S. relationship, I will quote freely President Otega saying, it's based on respect. Yes. You recognize. Virtual respect. Yeah. Virtual respect. We have shown respect where the most democratic force in this, in the history of this country and the most democratic force in the history of this region recognizes and recognize the advances. You know, you can't let a very few group of entitled oligarchic and oligarchic thinking people to run your show as the United States puppets. You need to recognize that the popular movement in Nicaragua has made enormous strides. And if we can base the conversation on respect, we can move forward. All right. Virtual respect and lift the sanctions. That's it. So I wanted just to thank both of you so very, very much. And what a privilege to talk to you this week with July 19 rapidly approaching us. I want to share with you, with both of you and our viewers, this photo in my virtual background is Managua, July 19, 2016. I was so proud to be there celebrating that summer with you. So congratulations. Congratulations on your fine work. Please keep it up. Thank you so much. Thank you to both of you. So appreciate your time this morning. And let's do it again. We've got a number of things to talk about in the future. Agreed. Agreed. Thank you so much. And thank you to our viewers. And we will be live again next week, every Wednesday, 9 a.m. Pacific, 12 p.m. Eastern. Thank you gentlemen. Congratulations on 41 years. It's all ours on yours. Bye-bye. Thanks again.