 Hello, I'm Peter Sharuschi and you are watching Drug Reporter Café, Drug Reporter's regular online video series where we discuss international drug policy developments. Last time we talked about drug policy reform in Iceland. Today we will speak about cannabis reform in another island, Malta. I have two guest speakers with me here today, Cyrus Angereira, a member of the European Parliament, and Andrew Bonelo from Relief, a cannabis reform NGO based in Malta. Thank you very much for accepting my invitation and being here with me. Thank you for having us. Thank you, Peter. So, as I mentioned in my introduction, Malta is an island. So, as such, how is the drug situation different in Malta than in mainland Europe? So, what are the trends of cannabis used lately in Malta? Do people grow the plant in the island or is it imported from the continent, Africa and Europe? How is it going? Well, in Malta, cannabis has been used obviously for a very long time. Mainly, the main bulk of it was imported from North Africa and that would be hashish. So, that's all you would be able to find, really, up until, sort of, let's say, the 2000s, you know? And then people started to grow over here, locally. And of course, but the main bulk started to come in from Europe as in flower. So, flower has been constant for the past, let's say, 10, 15 years and that's mainly the main product at the moment. You know, Malta for a long time had a reputation of a socially conservative country with repressive drug laws. So, Cyrus, how and when this situation has started to change? Yes, Malta is known as a conservative country. However, things have changed over the past eight years where we have had a new government, which was very liberal with regards to social aspects. And we have seen a conservative Malta become a hero when it comes to a number of civil and human rights and liberties. And it is in this line of thought that the government in the past few months has decided to start and open up a consultation, a public consultation, with regards to the decriminalization of cannabis use in Malta. The consultation ended a couple of weeks ago and the good thing is that we have seen a very interesting debate going on. So, apart from the actual consultation process, there was a media debate, there were a number of discussions held on the island. And the interesting part was that the Labour Party, which is also the party in government, and which I form part of, has gone the extra mile basically. So, within the consultation process on the criminalization, we are saying that there should not only be decriminalization, but also move on towards legalization. As a member of the European Parliament, I have submitted my proposals to government. On this, I too believe that there should be legalization and not simply decriminalization. And one of the main aspects that I have spoken about and that the government seems to be, or at least the party in government seems to be discussing quite a lot is the issue of cannabis social clubs, or, as I call them, cannabis social enterprises, which are, as you know, very important for those who are not able to grow their own product, especially. Let's remember that, till today, it is illegal to grow your own plant, cannabis plant in Malta. And with the reform that we are seeing, there will be a concession for people to grow their own plants. But we're going a step further, because we believe that although it is important to allow people to grow their plant, we should also think of those who cannot grow their own plant. So the idea of a community space for people to come together and pull together their resources is something that I really believe in. You mentioned that it's illegal currently to grow cannabis in Malta. So what are the sanctions against drug users and then those people who cultivate cannabis for personal use? Well, unfortunately, back in 2015, we had some sort of reform, which was a sort of deep penalization of growing one plant. So if you were caught growing one plant, then you were sort of channeled into a different system where there would be no minimum mandatory jail sentence, which is, I think, the minimum is six months. So the problem then arose, obviously, when you have more than that one plant. So we saw a lot of cases and anomalies and some pretty draconian sentencing. So, you know, as obviously as an NGO and the community, we started to press harder as much as we could within the government. We were very, obviously, lucky to find an actual secretariat that was formed, which is in charge of reforms, and that parliamentary secretary was very welcoming. Her name is Rosy-Anne Kutayar. So we managed to work well with her and I get our ideas across of how we could move forward. And it seems, you know, finally it's taken a while because obviously there's a lot of opposition and she had to get this white paper past the cabinet at the end of the day. So it's not an easy feat. But we, you know, we see in this white paper some very bold moves, you know, especially the concession of growing your own cannabis. And the most important, of course, was the expungement of criminal records. It's something we had pushed on from the very beginning and we were very happy to see that included as well. Yeah, before we started this conversation, I was just reviewing articles from the Maltese press and I saw a case which illustrates your point about the draconian drug laws very well. This Englishman called Daniel Holmes who was sitting in prison, has been sitting in prison since 2006. If I'm... Not anymore. Sorry? Not anymore. It was then released from prison. So but could you use these kind of cases in advocacy for changing the public attitudes on the drug laws? I think Daniel Holmes' case was quite a spark in the whole movement. I remember actually meeting Cyrus because I was one of the organizers of a march that we had done in the capital about his sentencing. And Cyrus had come and walked along with us that day. So that's how far back we go in trying to push this reform. So yes, there are other cases, of course, that happen that won't get picked up by the media. But we've seen some other ones, you know, the couple that was smoking in joint on Valentine's Day that got dragged out of the hotel room and taken for interrogation. So yes, there are quite a few draconian measures, unfortunately still haven't yet. The good thing is that I think since then, if we remember what happened during the march, the protest that was organized by Andrew and the group of people that were in favor, or at least against the imprisonment of Daniel Holmes, back then I believe I was the only politician to be present for that march. But I think if we have to hold that kind of protest today, we will see a number of other decision makers who would actually join us today to march in favor of not putting people like Daniel Holmes in prison. So I think we have moved forward a lot since then, which is a good thing. The fact that we have had the white paper up for discussion is an excellent step. All of us have made a huge effort to submit the best of proposals to government. And now we hope that in the coming weeks and months we'll see the outcome of that in a bill that will be proposed to our national parliament, which comes out of what people have recommended in their submissions to government. So it's a good thing that there's this wave in favor of decriminalizing and legalizing, hopefully, cannabis use. Today I just read an editorial in the Times of Malta in support of cannabis reform. How is the public opinion on this issue in Malta? Do you have any polls which measured public opinion on this subject? The last polls we had were quite a few years ago. I think it was maybe two or three years ago. And I think it was 66% of people who were against legalization of cannabis. But I think since then a lot of things have changed. I'm seeing more politicians coming on board. Obviously this government seems to be wanting to make serious reform. So I think no real politicians have come out against decriminalization per se. But when it comes to legalization, then they're a bit wary of it. Yeah, and it's interesting, because one of the latest polls I had seen, which was on the newspaper in Malta today, wasn't actually a poll, but it asked people whether they had ever used cannabis or not. And it was interesting to see that nearly 10% of the adult population said that they had at least used cannabis once. Now, obviously, it was still a bit of a taboo. We're speaking of this happening two years ago. So many people would probably decide not to divulge what they have actually done or not. So it is believed that the numbers are quite higher. And I think there's a shift in public opinion as well. The fact that political parties and members from all political parties, at least there are a few from each and every political party, speaking in favor of this, means that public opinion is being swayed. And there's more information, because I believe that for a long time the biggest platform was given to those who scaremonger, who scaremonger on everything, on every kind of civil right and liberty, and on drugs as well. So we have heard for a number of years on the war against drugs, etc., which obviously has failed not only in Malta, but all across the world. And now we're seeing a shift in the fact that a number of people are coming out with facts. They're speaking with facts in their hands. And there's more of a, let's say, an intelligent discussion rather than scaremongering. And I believe that that intelligent discussion, propelled by the Labour Party, is leading towards a more informed society. And a more informed society obviously would change its opinion when it comes to cannabis, but to all drugs, I believe. Did the other political parties come up with their own proposals on the government's consultation call? The main opposition party hasn't. I believe Andrew can correct me on this, but I believe that they haven't. They said that they have their opinions, but they have not released them through the government's recommendation system, through the consultation. The small parties and the other small parties, I believe, are in favour of the criminalisation. Okay. Recently, a company called Xenobis received a licence from Malta to grow cannabis, as far as I know, for export as well. So can you talk a bit about how medical use of cannabis is regulated in Malta? Andrew, or my side? All I can say definitely is that there won't be growing any cannabis in Malta. Most of these companies that have set up here are going to be importing the products and processing to export to Europe mainly. But obviously, they have to come out and they have to apply through Malta Enterprise and to see if they're going to get accepted. But there's quite a lot of hurdles, because obviously we're talking about medicine here. So when these people set up their companies here, they have to go through a source of tests and hurdles and EUGMP standards. So I think there are about 20 companies that have a memorandum of understandings, but I think it's two or three that have actually got the EUGMP at the moment. Apart from that, I have met a number of entrepreneurs, Mothi's entrepreneurs themselves, who are trying to venture into this market. They believe that we have, as a country, one of the best tax systems when it comes to this area. And apart from that, climate-wise, I'm not an expert on growing plants, but apparently it is a very good place to do so. And therefore, they're looking forward towards being able to invest into these markets in our own country. So I think it's a good thing. I hope and will be continuing to push for having less bureaucracy when it comes to this. Yes, it is medicinal. So obviously when it comes to medicine, there are a number of standards that need to be kept in place. But let's see that we have a system that actually welcomes investors to grow in such a growing market, actually. The video you are watching now is produced by the Rights Reporter Foundation, a non-profit organization, which is not supported by any governments or political parties. If you like this show, please support our work on our website, thedrugreporter.net. Make a donation today and become our supporting member. It makes a difference. Thank you. So the white paper of the government would like to decriminalize cannabis use, possession for personal use. But as I understand it, it would not fully legalize the market. So I see there are some differences here in the Labour Party position and the government position. Do I see it correctly? Yes, you do. The Labour Party per se is not the actual government. So the Labour Party can propose what it likes. It's free to speak its mind. But their reaction or their suggestion to the white paper was very valid. Obviously, there was a part in it where they mentioned that we should go on to full control and regulation, which makes complete sense. But the press just picked that up, that one line and said Labour Party won't legalize it. So it kind of blew out of proportion. Because even when I read that headline, I was like, OK, hang on a minute here, what's going on? Then I had to read their actual suggestion, their actual report, and it was a very good one. Obviously, the government in Malta currently is made up of only one party, which is the Labour Party. The good thing is that while government proposed its white paper, we had an internal discussion within our own party and we came up with our suggestions to the government's white paper. And as a party, we are pushing the government to go further than it was originally planning in the white paper. And I'm sure that the group of us who were working on this within the party and within the national executive of the party, now that we have a mandate by the executives, since this was voted through the national executive, and we have this mandate, we will definitely be pushing as a party internally and externally to make sure that government, as much as possible, falls in line with what the party is currently proposing. Obviously, it is important to listen to everyone, to also listen to those who have a number of concerns. Some concerns may be valid, maybe at face value especially, and it's good to hear them out. It's good to discuss with such people as well why they have their concerns and try to debate with them and discuss with them realities with facts, because at the end of the day, as I started in the beginning, it is facts and scientific evidence that is mostly important when discussing such issues. And I look forward to see a good bill presented to Parliament, which then could also be further embellerated within the context of our parliamentary system as well. You mentioned the opposition to the reforms. Where does the strongest opposition come from? Is it coming from the police or is it coming from opposition parties or any like the church organisations or who are those who are opposing this bill? Mainly as church organisations of which Caritas is one of them, they are the main drug rehabilitation centre. There are others as well, but they are also obviously questioning this move. They do obviously start off by saying they agree with the fact that people should not be criminalised, but then they would question why we are not criminalising them for more than seven grams, for example. Because seven grams is what is being decriminalised for possession, that is. So sometimes they say one thing and then they mean another. Obviously, the doctors are usually very conservative as well, and they together signed a joint statement or warning, basically, of the consequences of what could happen. But then we did see another group of higher medical professionals like surgeons and other people of that level which also signed a joint statement saying that they agreed with decriminalisation and, again, they just went on to warn about the effects of cannabis. So I think really, in general, we should see a pretty strong bill come out of this. As I see it now in Europe, increasingly the question is not only legalised or not legalised, but how to regulate the market. And there are many debates on this. And in Europe, there are many activists who are against the commercialised model which is in North America, and they favour a model which is based less on the monopolisation of big companies, but rather, as you mentioned, the social collapse model. So is this debate going on in Malta? And what is your position on this debate? I think the debate is going on in Malta with regards to this, but I think most people are simply first waiting to see whether we're going to just decriminalise or legalise as well before going into the details. But I think that the details are important. Already, from this point in time, because if we're going to legislate in favour of legalising, I believe that from the start we should at least have a direction where we want to have to. I personally am more in favour of the social, cannabis, social club kind of model. I do not necessarily like what happened in North America and Canada where big pharmaceutical companies ended up monopolising the whole market, let's say. I'm more keen to see individual users being able to grow their own product and when they can't grow their own product because of the apartments they live in or various other factors, I would like to see the pooling of resources together between users who would then be able to pool not only the resources, but also pool the product together from what they would have pooled. So that is my opinion. I am for a more, let's say, social aspect of legalisation rather than the commercial. Andrew, what about you? Yeah, we've pretty much released our proposal to the government as really back in 2019 and we had proposed social clubs as well. We had got a lot of our information from people that work in Spain, from ICS and NCOD, and we had suggested that a social club model would be the best to keep it at a community and grassroots level. Obviously, the market is, I feel, already swaying some, maybe even politicians' decisions in the way they're coming out about this white paper. So we have to be very careful, we have to be very vigilant to make sure that at least the groundwork is done so we can build a solid base where people can share and people have a safe space to go and people can grow their own before the inevitable happens, I guess. It's probably going to happen all around Europe, but I can see that the market will probably be not very forgiving. We can say that in Malta, cannabis reform is not driven by the lobbies of big companies, right? Correct. Definitely. It says so, you can see that through this white paper. But obviously, you never know what's going to happen in the near future because things can change pretty quickly. Cyrus, as a member of the European Parliament, you have some oversight of the European situation and you initiated a conference not so long time ago on cannabis reform in Europe. So what were the lessons learned from the conference you organized and how do you see the situation in the European level? Unfortunately, so far, even here in the European Parliament, there isn't much debate and discussion on cannabis for personal or recreational use. Unfortunately, most of this discussion revolves around medicinal cannabis, which obviously is an important topic in itself, but there are other realities that must be addressed. So as a team, as my office, together with my advisor, Pia Mika Lev, we decided to hold this first conference ever in the European Parliament to discuss cannabis for personal use. It was interesting because we wanted to have a number of speakers who were members of the European Parliament, also to get support from others. And while we know that there are a number of other members of the European Parliament who support this cause, it was very difficult to get politicians to speak up on this because many tend to prefer to take a back seat when it comes to this issue to see where this will be going and then maybe discuss this topic at a later stage. That said, we found a number of allies which was interesting. So the first thing that I have learned from this is how important it is to break the taboo when it comes to cannabis use also here in the European Parliament. And we will be working with a few other members in order to do that in the coming months. But apart from that, I think what came out strongly is the fact that we should work towards having obviously the criminalisation and legalisation, but we should do this from a social perspective to this. Obviously, the majority of speakers also coming from the European Parliament were more politicians coming from the left. So it is the first instinct, let's say, for politicians coming from the left to be more in favour of a social aspect. But when you also see the different speakers that we had during the conference coming from all across the European Union and beyond in reality, and people who are involved in this field, I think that the major takeout was the importance of keeping in mind that social aspect. Whilst it is important, obviously, to see economies grow and have economic growth all across the European Union, especially post-pandemic, it is a reality that in this case we must learn from the lessons when it comes to other medicineals, for instance, where we have big pharma that has taken over and unfortunately is affecting a number of patients or in this case would be users negatively. So the big takeout, I believe, was to work towards the social, cannabis, social clubs structure like there is, for instance, in Uruguay or Spain and what we had here in Belgium before, which, unfortunately, is not existent any longer. It sounds like you have been working on this issue for a long time so you didn't start it yesterday. So it's a question to both of you. What would you recommend to activists and politicians in other countries which are not so much progressed in this regard? So can you share some experiences with them or some recommendations with them like something you learned through these years? What works, what doesn't work? Don't try this, don't try that. Look, I think as an activist you're at a certain level where you might not be getting any cooperation so your only route is to write a lot in the content section or to take to the streets. But if you have some politicians that are actually in favour of the idea of reform and you can create a direct line with those politicians then you can start converting into more advocacy work, trying to show them what road to take and always base everything on human rights. I think that's why they seem to see the picture although they're oblivious to what is going on. When you explain to them the human rights impact it has on people that consume cannabis and grow cannabis, they seem to forget the idea. So try and find someone in government and try and keep a direct line. That's what we did so I think we did a pretty good job. From my end, I consider myself as an activist. I am a politician, I am a member of the European Parliament. However, my background is that of working in NGOs on human rights and civil liberties. So that is the thing that I know what to and how to do in reality because I don't consider myself as a politician but rather as an activist who has now been given a political role. So I believe that the important thing is believing that whatever you are saying and advocating for at the end of the day can change laws, can change mentalities, but more than that it can change lives. I think we should never shy away from voicing out our opinions even when we might think that we're the only ones who believe that this thing is true or the other thing is true. We should simply stand up and speak out and at the end of the day we'll start realising that there are a number of other people who agree with us and that starts a movement towards achieving that purpose that you would have. We have done this back home when it comes to basic civil rights like divorce, for instance, which we didn't have till 10 years ago. We did the same when it came to LGBTIQ rights. We started this eight years ago and what has become from zero to hero when it comes to LGBTIQ rights being the best country in the European Union on that. And I think that now this is the next battle, let's say, that we have. The more we speak about it, the more we show facts on the issue, the more that people become more informed and the more they become in favour of what we're speaking of. At the end of the day, as Andrew said, it all revolves around human rights. And human rights are fundamental, they're universal, they should be there for everyone and there shouldn't be discrimination when it comes to human rights. Thank you. It's definitely very inspiring to see that in a country where this social conservative traditions change is possible and it is happening. So what is the timeline of cannabis reform now? So what will be the next steps? What do you expect will happen in the next few years? From my end, I believe that currently government is going through the different recommendations that it has received through the consultation procedure and will, as soon as it's done from that, it will come up with a proposed bill. Obviously, what doesn't help is the fact that the current government's term is soon over. So at the beginning of next year, we should be having national elections again. So I hope that we will have a bill before that. If not, I believe it would be one of the first things that the new government would do. But I don't want to see this as a political partisan issue. It should be a human rights issue and I'm afraid that with an election coming up, it will end up becoming a partisan issue, which shouldn't be because at the end of the day, as I said, it is all about facts and we should rely on scientific evidence rather than have a partisan bickering between one party and another on such issues. Andrew, I don't want to be missed. I think, to be honest, we're hoping that this bill actually goes through before the summer recess because, obviously, we want to grow this summer. But there also is, like Cyrus said, an election coming up. So we're hoping that once this bill goes through, we'll have something proposed actually by the government in one of its electoral promises about how it is going to control and regulate the cannabis market in Malta. Cyrus, Andrew, thank you so much for being with us today here. And I hope next time we will have you in Drug Reporter Café. We can discuss the details of cannabis regulation in Malta. Good luck to your work. And thank you so much for those who are watching us on Facebook. Please follow us on social media. And please don't forget that Drug Reporter Café is operated by an NGO. So please support us. Thank you very much and goodbye. Thank you. Thank you.