 Hey, Steve Maida here with the 21 Convention Podcast and we have James McLean and James Marshall on this podcast. This is a pretty awesome interview. We get very deep, we get very personal, but also we talk about sex, the sexual dynamics, threesome, working with multiple partners and just the lifestyle that is necessary to really cultivate that, to be the foundation for that. Don't forget to subscribe to our station. If you like what you see, pass it on on social media. Let's keep this dialogue going and let's get into this interview with James Marshall and James McLean. Here we are with James Marshall, James McLean and this is the 21 Convention Podcast. What's happening guys? What's up? It's the two Australian Jameses. The two Australian Jameses. Skinny big noses. Yeah. There's quite a few correlations, man, so everybody has a cool story about how people met and came together, but you guys have known each other since, what, 07? Yeah, 2007. So how did that all happen? I met a guy in the seduction community who actually got laid a lot. Oh, fuck this man, wow. He's like three, four, five girlfriends. I didn't, so yeah, I was very excited to meet him. Yeah, he actually hunted me down because this guy's obsessed with like finding out who actually gets any kind of results in this industry and he'd been searching and hadn't found anyone and then he heard about me and came and hunted me down back when I was a, you know, a bit of a musician bum who was just doing the thing in Melbourne, Australia. Are we going to introduce you to some Lairdude? No, let me ask you guys this. I'll say this, you guys don't share this opinion, but who is that fucking idiot guy from Australia that... Alex Kulson. Yeah, yeah. When you guys said, finally a guy that gets laid, I was like, because he was kind of the standard for, well, I mean, it wasn't only... The first movie in Australia. Yeah, really big kind of like name dude that came out of there. There was quite a... It's funny, it's a bit of an interesting scene, the Australian seduction scene of around those years, 2006, 2007, 2008. It was really good. Like there was a bunch of guys that came out of that who most of them now are not dating coaches, they're just like DJs or like drug dealers or something else, but guys who are fucking really good and, you know, it's like when there's a music scene somewhere like in New Zealand, for example, dub music is really good. You're like, why? I don't know, it's just like something appears and then everyone bounced off each other and that period, there was about four or five of us who hooked up in Melbourne, Australia and really exploded in terms of growth and ability and we learned a lot off each other and completely in isolation to the US scene. None of us got involved with it. Totally. Because, you know, one, you guys came up with something different. I mean, you guys actually both came up with something different yourselves, but you can see that it is separate from what was happening in the US and the US kind of grew up in this other way and then even UK and some European stuff. But yeah, man, so what was that like when you guys first met each other and to see each other grow? I mean, watching James Gray has been astounding. He's always been a really impressive guy, but I mean, watching his speech the other day, I mean, it's just phenomenal. I've actually written down somewhere, someone would have got out of it. But yeah, I mean, he's just spiritually, I mean, his skills with women have always been good, but I mean, he's gone to a completely different level. I feel he's grown a lot as a coach too, which, once you've coached hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of guys, you know, in, you know, not 15 at a time like some guys do it, you really just learn from every guy. So he's, yeah, it's like he's seven years, but he's sort of grown 20 or 30. Travel would obviously, any man who travels in a big way is just going to experience personal growth. I don't think you can really compete with any other way. And so what was James McLean like? James was, he was a, I mean, the interesting thing about James is he, his story is that he came from a very low place with women, and he grew up in the, in this following the societal model, which was, you know, study hard, get a good job. How old were you when you had gotten involved with it? I managed to stay a virgin until 27. I don't think that even counts. Really? I was inside her like two and a half minutes, and I was with her two or three days. And then I'm, you know, I got like that much wood. And she sort of really, she was really sweet. She jumped on top, grabbed the thing at the base and got something more in there. And then she swirled around. And I saw these tits in front of me. I went, whoa! Yeah, it was another four years till I got my second shot. But, um... Really? Yeah, just so repressed. So I got to be successful. I got to have money. I got to have muscles. Went to the gym and built the muscles. You know, I got to be cool. I got to be good at sport. I got to be all these fucking things before a woman will ever consider me. So I know that a lot of guys out there probably have that sort of, you might not have been a virgin, but you might just be with a girl and you're like, why am I? But you're too scared to leave because you're not going to continue on. Well, yeah. So I mean, we did things very differently. Because, you know, for me growing up it was about music and experience and drugs and people. And so I incrementally learned to be good with girls over a period of ten years. Whereas he did the Crash Course. Yeah, where it's... Was it like 31 when you kind of quit the whole finance game and he just went on this endless loop of the world. And his... I'm a world travel man. I've done like 40 countries or something like that. And he's done over 100. He's the most well-traveled person that I think I've ever met. Because I think he was really trying to make up for that last time where he was just like, fuck it, I'm going to go and experience as much of life as I can through travel, through women, through self-expression, through spirituality. And that was what I really liked about him was that for a guy starting out on a very different path when you're in your 30s, most people have already calcified by that time. That's like, well, I know what I am and you just do what you're doing. And he just flipped and did the complete opposite. Because he knew that, well, if I keep doing this, I'm just going to waste my fucking life. Yeah. Let me ask you this. What was the frustration and anger? Because we work with guys. And there's just so much confusion that comes into play when you're a virgin at 27 and then you don't get your next shot until you're 31. What was that like in transitioning out of that? I was just totally brainwashed. I thought I've got to be all the... My childhood wasn't pleasant. And I was put down a lot. And I just had this idea that I had to be all these things before a woman would even consider me. But the thing I did that might be helpful to some of the viewers, I had this shopping list of things I needed to be before even a 7 would consider me. And my shopping list, if Brad Pitt had had this shopping list, it would have been a bit ambitious for him. And all I was doing was protecting myself from ever being hurt. It's just so pathetic. A lot of what I said in my speech was that they were intelligent guys. They make such dumb decisions in this area of their life, even though they're brilliant at that. And I was... I mean, looking back, a lot of people have looked at me and said, wow, that guy's successful. He's good at sport, great at business. But I was so pathetic. It's just how brainwashed I was by society. And, you know, where you're at now is such a different place. Like, where did you see that transition, James? Because you get to know him in 2007 and moving along. I got to know you in 2012. And just seeing snapshots, you know, so James knows you really well. But, like, where did you see that transition with the other James, James McLean? Well, we were sort of going on parallel journeys, and we've ducked in and out of our lives. We don't get to see each other that much, unfortunately, because we live on other sides of the planet. But at least once a year, we'll check in and spend a couple of days together. And, yeah, I mean, for him, his journey has been... he was really obsessed about the highest quality of women. And that's something that he's a connoisseur of. And... Not a bad thing. And for a long time I didn't really get it, because, like, to be honest, he's gangly and he's got a bit of a squeaky voice and his posture's not perfect. And, you know, his game's good, but I've met guys who've got better conversation skills and whatever else, but he's always with startlingly beautiful women who are always, like, usually at least masters, if not a PhD. Very intelligent, very, you know, very proud, very elegant women. And I've met, you know, a bunch of these over the years that I've known him. And that was something that kind of flabbergasted me at first, because there's been a few guys I've met where I'm just like, I don't know why it's working for them. Right, yeah, yeah. Because even if they're good, like their results are fucking insane. And this is my opinion, because I've thought about this over the years, about why it is that you get such great results. And I feel like it's that you just treat super high-end women like people. You don't treat them as if they're princesses, you're not trying to necessarily impress them, and you feel entitled to those kinds of girls. Like, those are the ones you want. And like, yeah, because I often tell students this, they're like, oh, how do I get a 10? And I say, only approach 10s. Yeah, because that's what you do. Only approach girls that you perceive to be your ideal women. Would that be right? Yeah, it's pretty close, yeah. That's an interesting concept. And I can see that in you too, especially because, you know, a very attractive woman, and this is probably some great advice that people can get out of it, but a very attractive woman knows she's hot. Everybody validates that. And it can also be like toxifying how that's validated. And if you treated her like a woman, you know, of just, or beautiful, or noticed things about her that other than her tits and her ass, you know, and noticed her sense of self or persona, and then through that, could look at her body and experience it. I think, man, that's a lot of what people are, that's a lot of what women are missing. Actually, I'm just thinking, I've never had this thought before, because I left it so late, I didn't, I wasn't 19 and wanted to fuck everything that walked up right without balls. So when I actually got to experience women, I'd probably got that, I got to fuck everything I can see out of me. So I only wanted more quality and I don't know if I've got a secret, but I can walk up the hottest girl and I'm like, so tell me about books you read or tell me about what you dream of traveling to. If I don't get something substantial to that, I just fuck off. And I've had literally models grab their other model friend and follow me around the bar when I'm coaching a boot camp, watching me talking to all these girls and then drag me back to their apartment just because it's like, what? I didn't have a decent book to talk about, so you just dismiss me. And whether they're attracted to me or not, they just have to fucking find out what. Right, yeah, yeah. That is the secret, by the way. Yeah, you got it. I mean, as James will say too, having some degree of sexual skill also. No, no, but it's an interesting thing. It's like everybody puts sex and stuff on a pedestal and you know, you came from a place where that's really, really difficult, man. I mean, there's not a lot of people who transition out of that 27-year-old, 31-year-old, like, sexual deficit and move into this kind of like empowerment of really knowing and expressing what you want. You are somebody for people that don't know that is all about sex, all about femininity and teaches within the realms and expressions of that. So when that comes down to it, what is femininity to you? I'm sure you could, man, that's... Jesus Christ, that's a big question. Okay, when you think about a woman and you think sex, you see beauty, you know. You see that 10. But what is the potential that you're searching for within her? I'll just answer this in a probably wanky way if anyone hasn't meditated. The greatest sex you'll ever have is very similar to meditation. You're in this moment with a person that should be a lot of eye contact. You might be saying, I love you. You might be in a powerful position. And, you know, I'm not as... I haven't done as much as James, but I've done a lot of meditation. It wasn't important to my life. It was crucial to my life. But it's just like being in the deepest moments of, say, a 10-day meditation. I think sex can be meditation. And you're just off, and it's like you can just experience, I don't know, everything around you through sex at that level. But, you know, you don't get that by dragging drunk girls out of bars and shit. And you've got to find... You've got to find someone special and you've got to get that connection. And, you know, you've got to break down her insecurities, which is a big reason why a lot of guys have sexual problems, because the women in our society are insecure. Not their fault. Yeah, I think to be able to have a woman who is truly feminine, you need to be a great lover of yourself first. Yeah, it's because so many men are disassociated from their penises, from their hearts, and their sexuality. I've talked about this before in terms of things like pornography and, you know, prostitution use and totally objectification of women really separates you from actual real relationships and real sex with somebody. So until you can really get in touch with your own sexuality, which means being able to be, firstly, get over the internal blocks such as shame and guilt and fear about it, the conditioning that whoever has told you that it's wrong or it's sinful or it should only be used in certain aspects or that if you're a man who pursues his sexual life you're an aggressor, an abuser. So being able to work through those, we start to unplug from this and then at the same time, well, maybe we'll say this till after the break because it's a bigger topic. And that leads us into, hey, we're going to be right back talking with James McLean, James Marshall and getting into some good discussion. Welcome back, we're here with James McLean, James Marshall and man, we actually, you hit on some strong points of, you know, actually in your speech you called it the crisis of masculinity and you know, the misinterpretation of femininity and you actually, man, you always bring up some good points about this, but what you had just even said about you know, women and sexuality and finding that sort of femininity and seeing it almost as this meditative exchange. You know, what has it been that you came from like the template cookie cutter lifestyle of what we're supposed to be and sex changed you and then you took, you know, going crazy, partying and all that stuff and then sex and then that changed you into a different expression into business. So, you know, how has this seduction shaped and changed your life into the expression that it is today because you do not look like a 27 year old virgin. My girlfriend struggled with that. I sort of, because of travel and because of this much pain accumulated, I was very fortunate in a number of areas. My first girlfriend who, you know, we had nothing in common with and it was a very dead relationship. She was very good in bed. She was an excellent sex teacher. Sort of, I don't know, the 15th girl I slept with was the most beautiful woman I've seen on earth to this day. It's my opinion. People won't disagree with me, but I don't have that fear of beautiful women that some guys might have. I sort of came into the seduction, so I certainly learned a bit off James, but I sort of more interested in teaching than enjoying myself as a woman. I haven't been promiscuous at all these last few years. It's been more it's got a couple of girls I see all the time and the odd new one. I want to come back to that, but just because that hurt I have a very similar story with it, but for yourself, how has this changed with seduction, interacting with women coming from a solid background because you talk about your mother a lot and that transitioning now into a different level of success and transformation? Well, I think like a lot of guys when you get into focusing in on seduction, it's about proving self-worth. There's always an element of when you weren't the cool guy at school when you weren't successful with women now I got successful much earlier than he did, but I still came from I still came from a position where I was a nerdy nerdy kid and you have that thing where you're like well I'm going to prove I can get the hot checks and I think that fuel is often something that kicks guys along to start off with but it's finite because really it's an ego game. And if that's what gets you started well that's what gets you started but I went and he met me during the height of that period and you were saying that six girls, seven girls and like I was literally I had five girlfriends at that time not because I just like happened to meet five cool chicks because that was my plan. I was like this year I will get five cool girlfriends because then I will be fucking cool. It was very driven. I was obsessed about that and after that period because that's the thing that sort of led me into my first kind of existential crisis because I did that and then I had the weight of five hearts weighing on me of these women. And then I was like and what am I doing this for? I'm just literally doing this just to prove that I'm fucking a boss. So I just went that was when I wanted a big journey let them all go, fell apart went oh fuck what am I doing and then had to reignite my pursuit of seduction in a different way which led me to meet the one woman that trashed all the others at that point in my life and fall in love and then move on to that next stage. It's interesting how that happens and I don't want to say it's an absolute it happens to everybody but you you will go through your times in your life where you're having a lot of sex or you're doing the kind of male ideal but then somebody comes along and it just phew and it's happened multiple times and probably all of our lives and it's like I think a lot of guys when they're looking at the seduction industry don't see that as a part of the equation not that it's a measurable thing but it happens to everybody with yourself you mentioned a couple of times just the pain and transitioning out of it I know for myself I remember when I was about 26 and I was not super sexually active was probably the fourth or fifth girl that I was with but she taught me how to love when I felt that fuck it's a huge monumental lesson shit came out too she says I remember you used to get totally wasted then you'd have to have sex because that's how you felt that's how you process the motion and then you would start crying everyday and I never thought of it that way she'll tell me that now and I'm like holy shit that's a lot of crazy stuff for yourself what was that process of processing through that pain and traveling and all that sort of stuff I suppose I'm quite close to Sasha in some ways not the best childhood and the only way I can solve that is to become this successful guy to a large extent I did a lot of people looked at me and didn't mind me I just sort of every woman I was with was a stepping stone to the man I am today one of the things, James I had a slight competition with my girlfriends from 31 countries and I'm not the sort of tumpolo to kick them out in the morning type guy I got to know them often meet their families, a lot of them were in the same a lot of them I met in their country which was just the most profound growth experience I often joke to my girlfriends you've got to thank my third girlfriend for me being this good in bed or you could thank my whatever 15th or 20th for the fact that I know when you're upset I'll hold you and let you cry type thing and it's just like being a learning process from women and James and I and James too now, we're lucky enough this is very important we've got to experience girlfriends from so many different cultures vis-a-vis the guys just going out and nail a whole bunch of girls in an L.A. Sydney nightclub type thing so we've got the United Nations and then some I got to bring up a question for both of you guys so American seduction guys will always say or it's a very common thing talked about you know what's wrong with American women because we're you know same thing it's like different countries totally different world you know it's a unique every woman has a unique feminine expression but then from their country too and there's a barrier something with American women not that I'm against it there's beautiful American women but that relationship that touch with the femininity the touch with like the total sexual release it's very hard to find whereas it's a lot easier to find in other countries have you guys found the same thing yeah well I think because there's been a deconstruction of masculine feminine roles in the western world in general well actually I would say Australia, UK, USA particularly because in Europe which is western world Europe still has quite clear understandings of what men and women are it doesn't mean that they're not there's not a pursuit of equality in the workplace or whatever but it's like you go to the Balkans or you go to France or Italy or Spain and women just have a different way about them they move differently, they're more sensual like having a a Russian girl like speak come up and speak into your ear is more erotic than having a threesome with two Aussie girls in my opinion I have a great story about that one too yeah there's and I think it's also it can be to do with religion like if you have a America in many parts is highly religious to this day and there's a lot that is when you have a culture that says that sex is a commodity that is traded within marriage or you say that it's sinful then of course that affects people's sexuality I think often in Europe although it is the nominally religious countries they just like yes I'm Catholic but you know let's be honest yeah it is totally different there's almost like no sexual identity in the states so they're trying to search for it and all this stuff which isn't sex but in Europe there's this diversity and there's an honesty about it like there are devout Catholics that go to church or go on Sunday and do mass Americans don't you know they do the religion is more than what a lot of American people would but the Americans hold on to this other side because I mean Australia and America particularly they're naive young cultures I mean in a way they're proto-cultures they've only been around a couple hundred or four hundred years whereas you have things in Europe or in Latin America everywhere else but I mean then you go to Asia and it's highly repressive over there as well in the Middle East and so on I don't know I mean what is wrong with them I don't know I don't really date Australians or Americans if I can just say from the woman's perspective it's not their fault it's the world they grow up in that's true that's a great point Rupert Murdoch a great Australian it's just I don't some guys get really bitter about Australian American women and yeah they probably are a bit too masculine for most of our liking but I mean a lot of our guys are very feminine I mean the guys I learnt off were from Croatia Brazil and in Italy, France there's obviously some Australians Americans who are really good but the guys are going Jesus Christ you know the way they touch them or the way they hold their eye contact I've never seen an Australian guy do that yeah when you have this neutralization of masculine feminine then the woman is confused as well she's defensive or she's playing games and you'll see that like that's one thing I love about for example Russian women they don't play games they do not they play a game as in the game of sexual tension they'll flirt doesn't mean that they're easy or that they're like really logical about sex but if they like you they will encourage you they'll give you enough rope so that you can come and like and they'll back off just a little bit to increase the tension not because they're going to like be catty about it that's always surprising about like an Eastern European woman you just don't get even with Brazil but is an American or somebody growing up in like a newer culture you know like Aussie culture or perhaps English culture which isn't that young but the the thing is that you're just not used to a woman being that direct so you're just like okay what else do I say and then even in Brazil it's like you can't wait I can just go up and say you're beautiful and not even like in a direct game way it's just like what you do and I can buy a drink and you know fall into romance right away you know fall into like you know physical escalation you know an interaction with their femininity directly it just doesn't make sense you know and it's just to see that language is cool this Brazilian I live beside a Brazilian woman who's I don't know late 30's she's got kids taller than me and I went running I went running one day and you know I'm no Lionel Schwarzenegger and she looked me in the eyes and she looked me up and down and she looked me back in the eyes again I just sort of like and then that since I was in Colombia it's like no western woman could ever look at you like that she just yeah whoa and that's right that's what James and I probably learnt to do it to girls watching eye contact I think that's the biggest thing you can learn from sex is you learn it from women you know what I always tell people is like from other pickup teachers or from when I was like learning I learned how to teach and then I learned a lot from my clients because I'd see them do things different even if they were asking me I was like impressed oh I'm going to try that and teach it to somebody else then you see what works but man to really learn the language of sex and women which you to start out with was tough I learned that all from it with women the eye contact was really receptive to what they're doing I mean a very wise woman once told me a man who's good in bed knows that he can't fuck every woman the same way because a lot of guys think that good sex is what they see on porn which is hammer away for 30 minutes it's about stamina and it's about aggression there is elements where those things will be useful absolutely but that you become a really good lover of communication and sensitivity even if it's rough sex it's not that I'm like doing that thing that you're supposed to do or you know press the clear rest in this way it's actually being able to communicate with a girl and say do you like it this way reading her body and responding to it we'll probably agree with meditation helps that so much because you're just sensitive to what other people are thinking probably the right brains communication mechanism but yeah I attribute a fair degree of my sexual knowing what to do what she wants next to meditation and again I'm not some monk expert meditator but I've done a little bit and it's helping massively most people watching just don't want to be that I wouldn't mind actually eventually we'll probably end up in moisture my new term once a man conquers the pussy he goes and tries to conquer something far far far more difficult as a spirit and that's probably one of the reasons why I've started on this business because you know it's the whole world this is interesting because it comes up all the time especially when talking about seduction with people you know in Chinese philosophy there's the Yin and the Yang and everybody always talks about that but before the Yin and the Yang there was the Wuji and that was the one and so the one had to split and separate and build a totally different identity and that's our expressions you know and now we're you know the 10,000 things but in order to know the truth you know we can get there through a system a method, your journey, your journey Sasha's journey, whoever's journey but the one is the truth and if we and you need a man and woman in order to be complete I think need to come together you know and if you're gay or you know you like the same sex then you come together in that way your complementary opposite whatever that is it doesn't have to be about gender necessarily absolutely, absolutely but I think that unification is so so key you know to come back to that in sex you know like you keep bringing up the correlation with meditation I think it is it is it's just you can probably get deeper if you'd really know how to have sex with someone you care about or preferably love then you couldn't meditate would you agree you can get maybe not what you were talking about before I guess it depends on the level of meditation maybe it's good to just give a quick definition because we use this word all the time my personal definition of meditation is awareness mixed with equanimity so it's the process of being aware internally of all processes, thoughts, emotions, physicality and then very importantly being at ease and balanced with that the unreactivity of the equanimous because otherwise if you don't have that kind of definition you can get lost in a dogmatic kind of like well I just say this thing over and over again or I imagine this thing and you're not actually understanding the process of how it helps you because all of our reactive behaviors that we have inside ourselves anger, frustration, bitterness, depression all that sort of stuff that comes from processes inside ourselves happening that we feel physically and then they turn into thoughts and emotions and then we react to them and we feed them and so the way that you use meditation is that you use it to actually dissolve and let that stuff pass negative habits it's amazing it's so weird because everybody does it in such different ways but there's always the tension in the body the tension in the mind and how we can release and how everything in nature it's a holding on of tension and a release of it but there's never the stagnancy of either of those there's never the constant we gotta take a quick break and do some cool stuff but let's keep this conversation going so we're back with James Marshall, James McClain and let's get into this thing of you guys have known each other for so long and how have you guys influenced and exchanged with one another, learned from one another where did that begin and where's it going James, as I said I met him in 2007 there's a lot of things someone who does my job who I really like and gets results in a massive way in terms of seduction the biggest thing I learnt of him was he almost turned it into a science what happens when you start seeing 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 I don't know how many he's got up to what happens when you start seeing more than 3 women at a time and it turns into this hierarchical structure which I think probably was your speech you haven't seen it where the one at the top is just James not me, it's true where the one at the top gets demanding and bitchy and cranky with you all the time and all the ones underneath it they sort of know they're lower down the hierarchy and they compete with you and shortly after this discussion with James I was seeing 3 girls in the city he lives in and one of them who was a banker every time she sees me she starts bringing me a book or a new shirt she wouldn't let me pay for dinner and it was just exactly James's science she knew she was down the totem pole so being a woman she wanted to rise up it but yeah that was all stuff I learnt from James which was quite incredible that the amount of detail he broke this the analytical mind behind women's behaviour when you're seeing more than one of them so that's probably I probably learnt a lot of stuff off him just by being around him they didn't actually give him credit for maybe vice versa too it's just you learn stuff by being around people but that's the thing that stands out that James taught me that and it's really useful it's really funny too just watching the way the other girls react the other thing about James is he's got more fucking friends than God it's like you just hang out I'm this pathetic fucking financial market yuppie turn traveler turn whatever and I'd come and stay in his house when I was doing boot camps in Melbourne and he'd make like a prostitute then a film producer drug dealer then a shaman then a yogi then strippers galore and all these cool guys and it's just the whole panorama of life and bankers love him and corporate lawyers love him and many many many women love him it's just to be around him it was quite amazing I used to say going to live at James's slum in Brunswick I don't know how the dishes there's two guys there three four new girls probably a week sometimes the dishes it was just terrible the dishes piled up forever and some of the girls were shagging actually washing them for them out of pity that's the mark of a true seduction person's living conditions it was pretty brutal back in those days we were not very civilized young men lots of girls he stayed over one night and he brought a girl and I let him use my bedroom as you do and he came out the next morning and he said oh thanks so much for letting me use your bed he's like you want me to wash the sheets and I just went what? you just screwed in like seven months of you think we changed the sheets every time a woman comes over dude relax he just wanted to be a polite house guest but he looked at me like I think my first was from Planet Zotog so he's just what but however these days ladies I do tend to change the sheets this is 29 year old James this was that was a big favor too well I only had one set of sheets back then I think I had a place for like four years and never changed the sheets that's beautiful I didn't care but afterwards everybody found out about them what did I just do but now when I'm teaching guys I'm like your seduction location is very important you have lighting, make sure there's no shit on the toilets make sure the place is clean and it smells nice I just wanted to share my new piece of intellectual property OWPJ that's the science of being incredible with women can either of you guess what it is OWPJ other women's pussy juicers so little did he know but not washing the sheets women went in the air and go I want this guy, I still have 12 other women no man that's like real dude you can do so much shit with that I mean like whenever, okay so you talked about sleep with multiple women they'll do shit like put their fucking pussy juice on your clothes and like crazy stuff like that or they'll be like all sorts of different requests but it all comes down to this primal stuff like scent or bodily fluids and all this sort of stuff to get it on you the other thing too which I think is funny is if you're around a lot of women they'll do stuff like I remember this one girl that used to wipe her pussy juice on me and then say go talk to women and you know women would just be like talking to me and they'd be like isn't that so hot they're all turned on and I'm like I think they're just talking to me but it just gets so kind of like territorial in a very very primal way and it's actually it's not controlling it's this really really awesome orchestration of just the real selves animals all of us how that happened I wish you had more permission to be an animal but speaking of animals let's talk about this dude and the fact that fairly regularly there's more than one lady in his bed they both want to be there and they're always much younger than him because he's a pretty old bastard this is something that when I first met him I'd never had a threesome I was just still you had all these women around it was one of those mystical barriers to me where I was just like how the fuck do you do that and this guy is one of two guys I know who are very the other one was like a six foot four black Jamaican drug dealer and then this guy who are good with threesome so how the hell do you do that Jamie it's interesting okay I'll switch it back to you for a second your French girlfriend lined up this other this gorgeous Aussie to have a threesome and you thought it would be a good idea to do drugs with flies and I'm like fuck this shit they're naked in the bed and you're running away I know that was the worst know-how this is this is the big lesson about threesome every time you except when I brought two girls who are girlfriends together and it's comfortable every time I do it I can't get it up every time I get in your combination of girls it's like my little penis just runs into my scrotum and hides there's some completely fucking nervous energy and it's if you train salesman and their income goes up and up and up they get to this self-sabotage level so the thing I found when you suddenly get two girls in your bed it's like two naked young hot bodies and your dick just disappears on you now I've done it enough to know that this is going to happen part of the process yeah so I just prepare for it and I make sure it's certainly age 43 I don't eat for like five six hours so I've got all the blood I possibly can available for there so if I do get any wood and that's why it's I've never sort of gone and got two fresh girls I've always slept with one of them but you've just got to have a girl where you can just get it started because as you know once you get in a wet hole wood follows once you get in that mode of this is a very common thing in group sex it happens a lot and there's a lot of questions about just you know not getting it up in general but in group sex whether it's like two guys two women found animals everybody it's but no man interesting yeah no so like me and my my born buddies talk about all the time if there's guys that are acting all alpha and you want to see them fail get a big gang bang to happen and they will be like but no but yeah so take us through I'm sorry take us through the process but it is such a common thing that people talk about because there's just so much of that energy you know we're from the old school where you didn't pop Viagra deal with this too yeah totally yeah because when you do that there's something missing from it but there's something beautiful about that woman getting it started you know you getting in the mode and her and then there's her I don't want to say ownership but her ownership of your feeling you know and then the other girl liking it and getting aroused by it but go go do it all right it's a truly amazing thing the first thing I'll say is guys have these dreams about threesomes but there's not really much in it for us it is a lot of hard work and I got back from an eight-day holiday with my two girlfriends in Perth and I looked in the mirror I was like my abs was just ready for the cover of men's health because I'd been straddled over these two girls four five hours a day while they did their shit they didn't have any biceps or triceps or any other muscles but my abs man I was like that's just that's sex I won't look at you that's fucking on vacation for five hours it's not sit-ups it's sex yeah but you know you're particularly this is a good piece of advice you've got your legs and a shoulder so you can get the clit in the g- clit right into g-spot and there's a girl on top of her with lips on her lips or breasts on her lips and the hair dropping all over them particularly when you get a girlfriend or two girlfriends you can really work another girl's clit well and then just and then the other girl if she's good it's got the other girl and all three of you come at once it's unbelievable I was getting that sort of every second or third week for a while but this is the thing no one believes me can you guess the best thing about three times by having two girlfriends each one guess by far having them do your dishes afterwards just like having sex with two girls all the time it's when you wake up in the morning and everyone's in their own sort of sleeping position and they just both roll on top of you and hold hands sometimes you sleep for an extra hour sometimes it leads to more sex they sit and hold hands and they're both lying on your shoulder and you're like it's just it's just bliss so that like feeling of like absolute connection you know the three way thing there so that's something that is really beautiful and my two girlfriends I mean they're almost as into each other as well that's really important in that situation it's like if it's ever a situation where one person's just kind of doing it to please the other or if a guy's trying to convince his girlfriend to like do it and she does it because she wants to please him it's gonna fuck up the relationship I mean that that is important because with sex like if a guy can't get it up and he freaks out you know and stops and he doesn't decompress himself out of that that's like that's some years of confusion of something that you know doesn't I'm glad you talked about that because it doesn't need to be confused or if a woman feels uncomfortable something didn't go right you know it's a really good piece of advice on that often times if you're a healthy dude and you can't get up it's not your fault it's her fault she's scared shitless for some reason so there's many things you do that give her a nice massage just get some relaxing energy in place let her relax get her comfortable with touch one of the funny things about having two girlfriends is you know it's like whenever they go around holding hands in public and stuff it's like it's like that it's like some sort of spiritual thing particularly at the beach when they're running around topless at the beach holding hands and stuff and I initiate that and then tease the shit out of one another but the thing is women love the attention and that kind of attention that's not the objectifying attention that's the appreciation and I think men don't realize that like when women dress up when women flirt that's not to be objectified that's to be a trait of femininity that they're expressing it's a beautiful thing everyone's looking just fucking stop holding hands they're like hold their hands but you've had a fair share of tracems too don't you fair share I want to say this because this was interesting you were talking about that feeling of connection I think we've all been there where we're having good sex but I think a lot of the times especially with women the bad sex comes the next day or when that connection doesn't happen when you're not holding hands in the bed afterwards and there isn't that full proper release I think it's a really important skill to know how to round off a one night stand any kind of sexual experience I remember the first time I had a one night stand it was pretty late actually I was always the second night guy and I remember the next morning because I knew I wasn't going to see her again I just walked to the door and I went okay so see her because I didn't want to give her the wrong impression and I just saw this look on her face of regret as she walked out the door and I closed the door and I went that was wrong I'm never going to do that again I think it's very common for guys with women afterwards because they don't want to give her the wrong impression which is the wrong thing to do you need to round off a sexual experience particularly if you're getting into really brutal sex if you're getting into really hardcore bondage or belting a girl around which is great as long as it's done within a safe structure but at the end of that you always need to round it off so that she feels safe, appreciated and respected again because otherwise you're creating trauma in her because the more vulnerable she gets and she gets sexually the more she needs to then be protected and look after her after that scenario so gentlemen always with your one night stands at the end give them a big hug say you're really awesome, I had a great time I wish you the best of luck, something like that so that she walks away feeling like that was a good decision and that she's then going to be able to go through her life having one night stands if she wishes to and you're not going to piss in the pool for the rest of us I would tend to call them I don't have anything like that but if I do even if it was awkward I'll always call them the next day I do a bit of what James does but I always just give him hey that was great last night it's a bit awkward because they're always whether they like you or not they want to see whether you like them but I just think, yeah as you say don't piss in the pool for others treat every woman with respect you treat anyone man we got to wrap up and we got about just in a minute what's a message for both of you guys that you would like to send out to the world about you know life, sex, yourself, you know being a better person I don't know I'll start I think the reason James and I are where we are and someone else might have said this is just because we're sort of comfortable being who we are whether that's through travel or a number of sexual partners or meditation which would be huge so it's like you can sort of tell guys who are actually really good with women by how strong we're in a quarry he's like solid as a rock so he's done six, yeah that's one of the reasons why six, ten days? and then for yourself you know in a minute or a quick summary what could you leave guys with? explore you're in yourself you're out of self and create the lifestyle that you want and don't let anybody tell you what that is you need to decide that for yourself but unless you're developing those three aspects so investigating your internal world dealing with your demons mastering your social world and your external world and building a lifestyle that actually makes you happy then you won't be a satisfied man his answer was way better than mine you got your own expression for a reason man I've been digging your stuff thanks for watching guys 21 convention podcast James McLean James Marshall we're signing off thank you guys so much for watching I hope you got a lot out of that it was really really an intense interview and just to be in the same room with those two man it got pretty crazy don't forget to subscribe to us pass this on with social media and let's build this dialogue leave a comment down below share it express your thoughts and let's make this a movement a discussion between us the world and you thanks for watching