 Welcome into the original gangsters podcast. I am your host Scott Bernstein Today along with my co-host and partner in crime my co-conspirator the doctor Jimmy Buccellato. Hey now Everyone just want to remind you please subscribe to our video channel on YouTube Please subscribe to our audio podcast or on Spotify Google Apple. Please like and follow us on social media You have like share subscribe Spread the word please we're growing every day. So Keep on giving you great content another full edition of the og we're Kind of zooming in or or You know from satellite Jimmy from his house in gross point, Michigan me from my crib In Warren, Michigan repping the east side. Yep, even though I'm a west sider. I live on the east side now Today we are going to talk about kind of have a nice debate Throw out some iconic images some iconic names some iconic gangland slain and kind of break them down But the top mob murders in history that took place in the summer months. So like the summer hit parade Famous murders that took place in June July and August and There's not as many as you think But the ones that did take place in the summertime were were bombshells big headline grammar big headline grabbers and Things that made, you know global headlines not just headlines nationally so Jimmy how do you want to start you want to go bottom up or top down? Yeah, I think I think we can go Bottom up and we'll we'll start with a couple of honorable mentions, but it is interesting what you said about I Agree the summer months. There's not as many as you would think and that's interesting because traditionally just in general crime rates Usually go up in the summer and it makes sense, right? It's warmer people are out and about more So it's kind of interesting that in in the underworld though Not so much at least in at least in terms of homicides. It's not really the the case and I would just also add You know, we like to mix it up and a lot of the time we talk about Contemporary events, but sometimes we like to look at historical studies historical case studies And so we we keep on trying to bring diverse content both in terms of long format episodes, but some are quick hitters Sometimes we talk about the Italians other times we talk about other groups Sometimes it's historical. Sometimes it's current and and we feel pretty strongly about that like So things don't get stale. They don't get stagnant like, you know Every few weeks cycling through a different kind of way of thinking about this topic So I think this is a good example. Yeah, and the show isn't original mobsters. It's original gangsters Yeah, and the gangster is not just an Italian mobster. It's not just a Don Corleone or a John Gotti a lot of different Versions and and lanes and spaces in this genre that we like to Try to color color them all up and you know, hit all the nooks and crannies Yeah, so we can start let's start with a couple of honorable mentions and then we'll go into the then we'll go five four three two one so I'm just gonna you know throw out three four five ones that are just kind of off the top my head that were consequential but probably didn't reach the level of iconoclasts as The five that we're gonna talk about the top five Let's start with Mikey Cangolini in Philadelphia The 30th anniversary is actually this week of Mikey Chang's Murder in South Philly him and Joey Merlino were crossing the street in the middle of that crazy 1990s Mob war the shooting war that had erupted between 91 and 94 ish and summer of 93 Mikey Chang and Joey Merlino walking across the street 600th block of Catherine outside of their social club hangout and Mikey Chang is shot right through the heart guys and Joey Merlino's arms Joey Merlino ends up going and winning the war and taking over the family and now we're 30 years later and you know the FBI believes that Joey and then we're looking at a picture right now of Mikey on the left and His brother Johnny Chang who allegedly is one of Joey's top lieutenants now has been an underboss wasn't on the street when the Changolini family broke apart at the seams in this mob war where you had two brothers trying to kill each other Mikey and in Joey Chang but you know as We talk about it or talk Kind of give an analysis of the 30,000 foot view When we're talking about this and then we'll move on to a couple other ones With him specifically. He's reached like folk hero status in South Philly 30 years later And I don't know if I can say that about all these other ones that we'll talk about in terms of not the top five but you know Mikey Chang is you know, he kind of serves as a cautionary tale a hero an anti-hero a Folk hero Someone that is very revered in in you know, South Philly gang landlord and will always be kind of spoken about in in glowing terms from the people that loved him because as as Intimidating as he could be and the guy was a I always described him as a force of nature And he was quick with the trigger But he was also had a soft side to him and was very beloved by a lot of people. I've never heard anyone Trash Mikey Chang Yeah, it's a tragic story. I mean obviously they they chose that life. So I'm not trying to be Naive about it. Nevertheless a family split like that. You can't help but but see it as somewhat tragic And also it's a Shakespearean in a way, too And it reminds you of some of the stuff that was going on in Sicily like during the 80s where Sometimes and not only just forget about guys within the same Borgata turning against each other But literally blood relatives on each side of that that conflict and I know Joey Merlino at the time Did not have any kids and I don't believe he'd been married Debbie yet And Mikey was married with kids and I know Joey was kind of famous for for telling His widow Mikey's widow that I you know if I could I would have changed places with him You know, I didn't have a family, you know, he's leaving a Bloodline behind now Joey's got kids and you know, they're beautiful young women going to live their lives and thank God He was able to do that. But so that's tragic let's move on and Real quick out of New England, we've done a lot of New England lately LCM in New England in Boston Providence. This was out of Connecticut Hartford New Haven Billy the Wildman Grasso underbossed junior patriarcha And there was a coordinated hit kind of like what you saw in Sopranos At the end of the sea at the end of the series when New York tries to kill New Jersey They try to hit them all at the same time And that's what they did with with Cadillac Frank and Billy the Wildman and Billy the Wildman was killed Cadillac Frank survived that assassination attempt and went on to take over the family. But this was right in the The peak of the tensions in the Boston Mafia war of the late 80s early 90s in in June of 1989 Yeah, that was wouldn't you say that was probably the most high-profile casualty of that conflict. Oh, yeah. Yeah for sure. I mean Grasso was He was they called him a wild man for a reason. He was a lunatic Very very Capable had a lot of bodies. That's why junior patriarcha Wanted him around he junior patriarchal Was not a strong boss and needed guys like Cadillac Frank and Billy Grasso, you know as buffers as fronts Because people wouldn't mess with them the way they would mess with junior or try to mess with junior Billy started Got his you know made a transfer from the New York five families to Raymond patriarch a senior because he had been locked up with Raymond patriarcha in the 70s. They were cellmates and And and that was also, you know a time when there was a lot of patriarch power in Connecticut And he's still a crew there. There's been a crew there, but that was when it's you know in the in the mid to late 80s That's when that Connecticut crew Really had a lot of sway In the patriarch's example also as you point out It is cinematic the because you can't help but think of the godfather baptism of fire Seeing where they like the heads of the five families This is sort of a miniature version. Yeah of that but in real life. I think it was they got Salami first it was supposed to be a breakfast at a international house of pancakes in Saugus, Massachusetts He dodged it took like six or seven bullets took refuge in a pizzeria at a nearby strip mall and I think either at that exact same time or shortly thereafter That was in Massachusetts then in Connecticut at around that same time on that same day in June the night I think it was June 13th. I could be wrong, but Billy Grasso was picked up told that he was going to a meeting I believe in in Worchester in Worcester and Was killed by his own guys in the car on the way that or in the van on the way to the meeting and his body was dumped on the banks of the Connecticut River Going over to Cleveland August 1976 the underboss of that crime family Caligaro Leo lips Moschery was logero closure was Was was murdered We're assuming he was murdered most 99.99 percent. He was murdered. I would say a hundred percent never found his body They found his his car with a lot of blood in the trunk was killed in the Irish-Italian mafia war of the late 70s Danny Green versus Jack White like a bully Leo lips was Jack White's best friend and first cousin. They had come from Detroit together After prohibition into the Ohio rackets and in the 70s Jack White took power and all hell broke loose with Danny Green the head of that the areas Irish mob refusing to Get in line behind like a volley Danny greens eventually a victim of this war himself. He's blown up in a car bomb in 77 but it was a very bold move and Something that ruffled a lot of feathers. He didn't just go after a soldier or an associate or a capo You know, they killed the number two man in that whole crime family to the point where I know Tony Solerno in New York was so worried he was calling For meetings with the Cleveland guys being like if you don't fix this problem, we're gonna come in there and fix it for you Yeah, yeah, I think that case studies really interesting I love the Mosheri connections to Detroit and obviously there's a lot of confusion with the early literature He was another one of those guys who they would say was a purple gang or him and the lick of oles Which which wasn't true river game. They knew the purple gang guys, you know, but they were they weren't part of the purple gang but um is um, I can't remember Leo is His brother was Joe Misery His brother was Joe Misery who was a capo and the Detroit mob from when it started in the early 30s to when he was killed In 68, but it wasn't a mob related killing That was a weird one. Yeah, he hung out at like a warehouse in Detroit Every day I think I don't know if he owned it or took a paycheck from there And it was just like him and his buddies would sit around the old timers sit around and play cards and And bust balls and some young african-american kid Went in there to rob the place And didn't realize who he was shooting right and so shameless self promotion But I usually don't do this but I have a picture of the Mosheri brothers in my in my book from from the old river gang And uh, this is a early organized crime in Detroit So um shameless self promotion, but Mosheri is a well-known name from teresini So there are a lot of connections between liquor volleys and Mosheri's in both Detroit and Cleveland But yeah, I love this case study. I mean, obviously it's tragic someone's killed But um, there was a series of sit-downs leading up to that where where nardy who was like dandy green's kind of like Sponsor is italian right co-sponsor right right Um Who wasn't made who wasn't made by the way, but had kind of the power of a maid guy Yeah, he was he was juiced in with the teamsters and But he um, and and that's and he they want he was gonna take over he wanted to get made and then become the boss When john scallish died, right, uh, but they gave it to jack Jack white right so but they had a series of sit-downs and nardy was telling Mosheri to go fuck himself like literally That's what he was saying to him And and so Mosheri, I mean it was just like the under boss like a non-maid guy And there was a so this it was escalating like rapid there was a so he disappeared I want to say he disappeared on the 30th or 31st or ended up not Around anymore, and I think on august 26 or 27 so a couple days before that there was a um, you know like a a street fair feast uh Celebrate the end of summer and they were all at the italian american club Anna, I think it was murray hill Uh, if I'm not mistaken there little italy and there was a very heated verbal altercation between nardy and Mosheri Where they're screaming at each other across the the hall the they see each other's face. I think if i'm not mistaken. It was very like, uh dramatic Yeah, and so then just to finish off with two other ones from our hometown of detroit the last made member of the detroit mafia Most likely the most most likely the last made member of detroit mafia to be murdered Pete fast pete cavatio long time soldier had a lot of relatives in the family and uh fast pete wore out as welcome Got a button at a young age never never was able to rise past soldier because he was a loudmouth that got on a lot of people's nerves was known for abusing people sleeping with people's wives when they were away in prison stealing from mob administrators in joint rackets And uh, he was always protected by his dad and uncle And then by his brother-in-law Detroit fats dom carato and dom carato died in late june 1985 and the The way the story was told to me was that his murder contract was actually issued at the wake by his other brother-in-law tony the bull carato and There's a lot of That murder of cavatio was never brought to justice He wasn't just murdered. He was tortured and then murdered They were looking for a safe that they believed that he had taken money from Or had taken money from other people put into a safe and was hiding it somewhere They never were able to get the the information out of him. They just killed him But uh, eventually one of the members of that hit team went in front of the grand jury in the 1990s his name was john pre And he eventually recanted the testimony But when he went in front of the grand jury he implicated Very very high ranking members of the Detroit mafia guys that are in power today Uh in that murder And those guys are are lucky that that pre recanted and and uh that indictment was never brought But it also allegedly involved the outlaws another kind of cross section between the mafia Italian mafia and the bikers Yeah, it's an it's an interesting example of where there's others in the underworld where Basically one one influential guy is keeping him alive. He's he's keeping the wolves at at bay and and when he dies that you know That's it time to go even his mom the word was the Rumor was that even his mother who was the sister of the godfather joe's really Even our sister even his mother-in-law not his mother. I apologize even his mother-in-law Dom carato's mother and tony carato's mother um Allegedly was eager uh for him to be murdered as well um He was mistreating dom and tony's sister And and that that was also an issue and jimmy We were talking about this off air and before we jump into the the top five We talk about um and there's these major mafia hits. It's Very rarely does it come from one? Oh, it's only one reason this is happening. It's usually very layered situations where there's like a Humulation of issues that result in a guy being hit Yeah, there a lot of times right what I referred to is over determined There's a series of infractions that are leading up to it now now once in a while You'll have like the guy who's like a cowboy who's like it's one thing and I'm gonna whack this motherfucker But usually I agree with scott that it's it's a multiplicity of multiple issues kind of You know converging into the decision to finally get rid of this person And then the last one i'll mention before we jump into the top five uh the kansas city mob war of the 1970s the river q the river key war over that entertainment district That uh was being fought over by different factions of the kansas city mafia And the big murder that kind of tipped off all of that Violence that lasted between about 1976 1978 Was david bonadana The one made member on the side against the civilla crime family And was fighting to protect his son freddy bonadana who had been the You know the driving force behind this huge Renovation of a broken down part of that city that became known as the river river key And uh it was an entertainment district restaurants nightclubs Uh really happening in the 1970s At the start of the 70s, but by the mid 70s the civillas more specifically their street boss willy the rat camisano Said this is being run by one of our guys's sons And we don't have a piece of this We're not able to extort all these businesses and more importantly. We're not able to control the parking Because the parking in in that uh in that night district was a a big big big time money maker And david bonadana stood up to a camisano and the civillas try to protect his son And they ended up killing him. I believe june 1976 and then sadly freddy bonadana who testified against a lot of those guys uh Went on to commit suicide later later on well and more more shameless self-promotion If you want to know more about this a deep dive that we check out our episode with gary jankins, which I think was a video Up where we've had them on twice one once was just audio, but When we talk about this case study specifically, I think that was a video episode you can find that in our archives So let's jump in let's go top five. Let's go from five uh up to one Yeah, so number number five a handsome johnny roselli And by the way scott and I have a consensus on this we talked about this before so it's not a back and forth um handsome johnny roselli is our number five and He was originally a chicago mafioso. He then was a member of the la mafia Well, I think you I think he was more of like Chicago's representative In la. I don't know if he was ever inducted into the la. Yeah, I've read both So I don't know for sure. I but I've read both. I've I've read that he eventually did transfer And when I was like a captain, but I I'm not an expert But I will agree with you that in some ways. He's he's one of these guys like frankie three fingers copula. He's almost this like um Like mafioso without portfolio kind of like just he's kind of everywhere. Yeah, right And I can't just pin him down because then he's in florida. He's got international connections So he started with capone in the 20s like what you said, but by the late 20s early 30s He's being dispatched out to the west coast. He's being dispatched down to florida Uh, he became a you know a mouthpiece for bosses in different families in different parts of the country Yeah, and um Eventually we'll we'll talk about The circumstances leading up to it, but the just to you know, uh get right to it They find his body and was it it's august of august august of 76 in biscayne bay and uh around south beach Yeah, they find his body in an oil drum. So it was pretty gruesome Uh Situations see if the six he had wrapped in chains. So it was a pretty gruesome Find and you can see there, you know, he was an older dude at that point you can tell from the from the image if you're watching the video and One thing that we didn't mention is he was also very well connected to the cia So he wasn't just a mobster He had a lot of connections to the intelligence community and he was one of the principal actors In the plot to assassinate castro where uncle sam Basically gives a contract a murder contract to kozenostra to assassinate castro And uh, the principal actors there are roselli roselli's chicago friend and and uh fellow mafiosi sam g and kana but also santo traficante who was the boss of of tampa and So now it's kind of interesting. We don't want to digress too much here, but You know, you can you can check out more promotion here for our friend scott dg check out his book silent dawn There's some stuff on roselli here, but also he was on our show recently if you're watching this you you'll already have access to that video but um so There's this this idea that traficante gene kana and roselli the whole time Thought that that plot was ridiculous and that that there's no way we can pull this off This is the stupidest idea But if you're willing to give us money and also provide cover from the fbi keep the fbi off our back We'll tell you what you want to hear. Yeah, sure. We'll fucking whack castro sure when really they they Knew the whole time that that was very unlikely. Wasn't it called operation mongoose? Yeah, right? And so the premise was the cia rate their anti-communist they want castro out of there But then then the mafia Will get their casinos back and my understanding is in all likelihood traficante roselli and those guys thought that it was very unlikely Pretty much impossible to kill castro But then they pretty much viewed it as a lost cause that like what we're never going to take cuba back So but we'll play the game. We'll take we'll take your money and and especially we want cover protection from the fbi So he was a connected dude um and he testified in in front of you know the church committee a year before His murder almost To the day Right, and that's how we know that that's how we know a lot of what we know now eventually some documents were declassified because of those congressional hearings but guys like roselli he kind of um Was transparent about this and admitted some of his role and A lot of researchers think are suspected that played a role in his death And so there's this interesting kind of conspiracy angle Which is to say who killed johnnie roselli? Was it the mafia? Was it the cia or was it both? Because you know something that scott dici documents in his book is roselli met with traficante just days before he disappeared Basically to explain why he said what he said at the church committee hearings and then he disappears So you know this could be another one of those over determined examples where it's like did the mafia kill him? Did the cia kill him? Yes And we should tell you that roselli was living in florida at that point Yeah, he wasn't just well If he's down there in the summer you're living there. He wasn't a snowbird right? It's a good point Uh, and he was living in brah. He was living in brawler county and was found in date Yeah, so handsome johnnie roselli. He's a real interest I think I think he's one of the most interesting guys in the in the history of of kozenostra because he's all over the place like that I think they had a character uh in the movie nixon And the movie jfk. I think the I think uh roselli was a character in both of those oliver stone Yeah, I can't remember could be and maybe what about the movie with um Matt daemon with with joe peshy was joe peshy supposed to be Yeah, it was supposed to be yeah, I was supposed to be like yeah, it was supposed to be like a roselli Okay, it was a fictional. Yeah name But I think I think that's a strong number five. Yeah johnnie roselli So go to number four So number four speaking of uh, chicago guys. We've already mentioned him. Uh, sam jean kana was our number four the former boss of the chicago outfit Again, that that becomes complicated right there. We have to acknowledge because it's sort of like He was the boss sort of like tony salerno was the boss of the genovese like He was the part of tony a cardo, right tony a cardo was the final say Uh sam jean kana and a cardo were were very close friends, they came up together Uh, there's a great classic photo. Sorry to interrupt, but there's that classic photo of them together them and being Arraigned or whatever. Yeah, uh, sam was in the 42 gang a cardo and jean kana both worked for capone uh, sam really earned his stripes in terms of Becoming fast track for leadership. Uh, when he came out of prison in the late 40s and uh sold a cardo and and paul the raider paul the waiter rica On taking over the black numbers racket And it wasn't an easy thing to do he lost his uh, uh, his bodyguard sam jean kana lost his bodyguard bat lenny Uh final And but at the end of the day they ended up killing the the last remaining holdout Uh of the black numbers kingpins a tough teddy roe And jean kana was caught on a number of wires in the years after that Showing admiration for teddy roe And I think what there was rumors that he might have had a picture of teddy roe somewhere in his office You know, it's too bad. We had a whack him or something like that, right? Yeah, we could have Now he could have we could have turned him into a good worker for us Yeah, uh, but you know teddy roe wouldn't let the italians come in there Into the south side of chicago and a lot of those black neighborhoods jean kana had actually learned about the racket from uh eddie jones who was a big time Black numbers guy that he was locked that jean kana was locked up with And him and eddie jones decided to kind of go And and eddie jones would be in theory the face of the italian sponsored Numbers guys And I think the idea the idea was that if eddie jones gets behind us everybody else is gonna fall in line and some did But the number didn't a number of them didn't and the most prominent of those guys was tough teddy roe Yeah, so I jean kana is another fascinating guy because he's at this intersection of all these different things the scott points out If you're interested in like african-american underworld in chicago, which which we very much are we're actually working on trying to get an episode Going on the black angsters of chicago, but so he's connected to capone. He's he's connected to the cia We already established that he's part of that castro plot, but we haven't even mentioned yet He's also connected to the rat pack. Yeah, john canadine He was the john goddy before I mean in between Al Capone And john goddy there was sam jean kana in terms of the national headlines The reputation that spread from coast to coast In terms of somebody that loved the spotlight and fed off of uh media fanfare dating celebrity dating female celebrities Hanging out with frank sanatra Hanging out with john canadine sharing women with sharing women. Yeah with john canadine frank sanatra. That's right and um, there's some real interesting stories about jean kana like his sort of talking shit about sanatra like, you know, sanatra Everyone thinks he's a tough guy. He like like i'm the fucking tough guy here It ain't sanatra. Um, and uh, but yeah, and jean kana was also as you pointed very flashy Probably the most conspicuous example the most ostentatious example is when he's testifying during the congressional committee hearings And he shows up with his dark wears his dark sunglasses to the hole in front of bobby kennedy as he's as he's questioning him So he was a pretty Showy guy which the reason why we're talking about all this is not only because it's part of the profile And he's an interesting dude, but that probably plays a role in why he turns up turns up Well, I think you let's go let's take it back even further It plays a role in him getting deposed. Yes. I mean a cardo makes a decision with all the Heat from the media from the feds From the justice department by the late 60s It's in everybody's best interest for him to get out of town um, and he I believe you I believe he was told to leave um, and yeah, he went abroad and and was bouncing around the middle east Europe eventually lands in mexico Uh, was investing in a lot of casinos Uh, there was rumors that he was investing. I don't even know if these were rumors that he was investing with like heads of states like The shah uh in in iran was investing with jean kana. They were making lots of money in Middle east casinos money that monies that were not being Shared with chicago. There was no tribute check Being sent back to the bosses in chicago when when jean kana was away and he comes back to town to chicago, um, I believe it was 73 or 74 and Starts to try to put things together again There are subpoenas coming from the church committee to talk about what was Going on with the castro conspiracy stuff that uh, johnny roselli was Also being called to testify of that summer of 75 wasn't when the church committee was meeting in washington and sam jean kana was Kind of believed to be more trouble Than he was worth. They were worried about what he was going to say Uh, they were worried or they were upset that he hadn't been sharing with them And they decided to hit him and in order to hit him You got to get somebody that he will lower his guard down for so There have been lots of theories. He was killed in his house um, I believe it was june um of uh June 15th, sorry june 19th 1975 and um Then we No more same jean kana and all we're left is is to speculate on What happened? Rumors that it could have been tony spilatro who was a Former kind of protege of jean kana Rumors that it could have been butch blasie who was jean kana's Driver and bodyguard. There were even rumors that it was tonia cardo himself That seems a little far-fetched came out from Some people more recently But it was definitely somebody that jean kana would have felt comfortable turning his back on because Jean kana was killed while he was in his kitchen cooking sausage and peppers for his guests And his guest was also his killer Okay, so another really compelling example here number three which at this point I think any of these could be a candidate for number one at this point when we're talking about these top three But we put the murder of bugsy seagull Benjamin bugsy seagull At the number three spot didn't like being called bugsy. That's right. Right. So I figure we'd add the benjamin part and one of the most iconic american gangsters of all time I think bugsy seagull could possibly be on the rushmore with uh, hey, maybe gaudy capone and Maybe luchiano. I don't know that could be top four. He was one of the pioneers of los vegas I I hesitate to say the pioneer because you learn as you as you deep dive it that he actually kind of Took ownership of some other people's ideas Yeah, but he was really the the driving force at least that got vegas to where You know planted the seeds for what we now know is los vegas And another interesting guy like jean connan roselli in the sense that he's everywhere He starts off in new york. He's a jewish gangster Close with mire lansky the bugs and mire gang and bugs He also was very close with the gen of it. Well, it wasn't the gen of ace yet. It was luchiano and costello And so he works with the italians And he is a particularly violent guy, but he also has a reputation as a ladies man And a good-looking guy So he goes out to hollywood initially similar to what scott was talking about with roselli Is basically a sign to go out west and take care of the rackets there get getting with the labor unions in hollywood and things like that But but seagull ends up loving it He falls in love with hollywood. He falls in love with l.a. It's kind of a taylor, you know, isn't it a taylor made relationship I mean a hollywood gangster that actually goes to hollywood and falls in love with hollywood Falls in love with the hollywood starlet Yeah, he loves everything about it the weather the celebrities the industry He loves everything about it and he starts hanging out with celebrities and some of them He actually knew from back in new york like george raft and guys like that But uh, he is uh, of course still a ladies man there And but he's also involved in the rackets there, right? He's taken over loan sharking gambling things on on behalf of Lansky and and and luciano Let's just spell, you know people that might get their history from the movie bugsy, which is an excellent movie In an underrated movie In terms of the genre, I think it's it's as top flight as elite As you know, the ones that we talk about but just different kind of story, but uh, They make out the guys in l.a. Jack dragging them to be real pushovers. There's a there's a scene where Uh, Warren Beatty's bugs. He makes jack dragnet, you know crawl on the floor like a pig or a dog and that I understand that there you got to make your point from a dramatic license point of view and show what a badass Bugsy wasn't it's a and it's actually a great scene after he embarrasses jack dragnet He goes and and there's a scene where he's eating a meal that a net bending cooks for him He's it's like he's a caveman He's got blood kind of running down his cheek and I think it does a great job of capturing kind of a Snapshot of who he was and what that relationship was and like turn her on to see him do that and then And then After he embarrasses jack dragnet He goes to the dinner table and and you know goes fred flinstone on a stage Yeah, well, I think it's interesting because in a way obviously as you point out that's highly dramatized But he was a guy who was both suave but also could be psychotic at the same time And so I think that movie does a good job of Capturing that and one of my favorite scenes is with with dragna where he plays russian roulette He pulls the trigger and obviously it doesn't go off and he goes see even I can't kill me Well, then there's the pot. So he's crazy. There's that great Dialogue where again, I don't this is not what happened but the way that James towback wrote it for bugsy is that the first meeting has with With dragnet dragnet says that we run a nice little operation here He's like you're in the second biggest country or second biggest state in the whole country and you have a nice little operation right right right and and also as mickey cohen in there So so who was you know a guy working for another Iconic infamous jewish gangster who was working with with seagull So so seagull has all these interesting connections. Las vegas hollywood new york luchianna lansky cohen all these all these guys seagull One of his Hairbrained schemes is he thinks he can kill musolini during world war two by romancing account account Which he was sleeping with her that's actually true One of the aristocrats from from italy So he's just a really colorful guy and and I agree with you that film was underrated even though a lot of it isn't true It's a great film. So um The thing we didn't mention yet is virginia hill and I think that's a lot. That's a big reason why he ends up You know number three on our list. That's the hollywood starlet that I was referencing. She was also known as a Pretty infamous gunmole around the country. She had been with gangsters from new york or chicago to la joey Yeah, and also I think a guy named epps joe eppstein and in um Chicago who was a jewish gangster and then In the movie they make a reference to the bullfighter that she was in in a relationship with and uh, uh, maybe Yeah, so She was someone that had infamy before she met bugsy um, and then there's What led to the june 20th 1947 murder um And most of it at least can be tied to los vegas and the Building and construction of the flamingo which became the first kind of modern day Not modern day, but uh, how would you explain the flamingo? It was one of the first one or two casinos on what is now the strip I I think that that was the the first example of this kind of all inclusive Like we're gonna have entertainment swimming pools casinos like the the whole thing not just a sawdust joint That you know that you stay at a motel or something in nevada. This was one of the first plush Yeah, there had been enough There had been another casino or two on this what became the strip, but this was the first like you're saying luxury right Supercharged casino hotel, uh, and it was It went way way way over budget The the money kept on that you were that were pouring into it kept on ballooning and he was so obsessed with it and possibly stealing from it along with virginia hill We don't know if buzzy was stealing for himself Was he stealing it with virginia? Was virginia hill stealing it and keeping it for herself and not sharing it with buzzy But there was money that was going missing and as the cost kept on skyrocketing seagulls Remedy was to go around and sell more pieces of investment into the property And which were empty share which were empty shares. Yeah So you had all these and then they open and I think it was christmas 46 And it's a big dud Um So there were there were a lot of things to answer for And I think mire lansky had been protecting bugsy for a period of time there And it became a situation where mire couldn't stem the tide and I I'm not gonna say that I don't think bugsy knew what was going on but virginia hill and her behavior Greased a lot of these wheels and that's what I mean what he was letting her get away with because he was so kind of sprung on her Yeah, so the part one way of looking at it was Either either he's in on it And if he's not in on it that he's too stupid to be in charge of this operation in the first place and either way That's that's not good with the bosses in new york and and also this reminds me a little bit of a Parallel with the ralph and the tally example because because she was such an infamous You know kind of mob groupie for lack of a better term or mall Um The guys lost a lot of respect for bugsy when when he when he was like really into her He wasn't just banging her for lack of a better term. He was he was he was like Humiliating his wife and his and his kids and and for a woman that had been had multiple partners in the underworld I'm not trying to be sexist or anything. I'm just that's just a fact Um guys were really puzzled that bugsy would be so into her Well, and I think it was more than that and to piggyback off of the ralph and tally in philadelphia in the 90s example He started being in benjamin bugsy seagulls started to bring Virginia hill to business meetings. Yeah to things that No in that world no woman would be would be allowed to and not only was she allowed to be there She was allowed to voice her opinion Yeah And she she's a she's a great character in her own right one of my favorite examples from her was she was also subpoenaed to testify before congress and it's one of the great moments in congressional history Where the where they asked her why why do you think you were so popular with the other these mobsters? And she's I think I believe she said something like, you know sucking dickers She she was very vulgar See if you go back and look you can people can look that up in fact But whatever she said was very vulgar like blowjobs or she said something very vulgar And can you imagine back then like I think that would have been in the 1950s like the blushing on the part of all these like Half dead dixie crats or whatever the fuck were In congress back then um So, uh, it's just a great story, but unfortunately it ends up doesn't go well benny. Do you have the picture there? Up on screen of the there you go. So killed in Beverly Hills Uh in her in virginia hills mansion, right? Right. Yeah was yeah, it actually wasn't his in his name uh, and so He was uh sitting there and I don't know if he was reading the paper. I can't remember but a sniper Yeah, uh took him out. So it wasn't like somebody inside the house. It was um, I think frank of Either frankie carbo or frankie polermo one of those One of those guys who were involved in the the boxing trade Uh I believe that the the theory is that one of them was the trigger man Okay, but I could be wrong. I I don't consider myself an expert on on uh murder anchor or bugsy But I I know when I was with ralph and take this with a grain of salt because it's coming from nouth mentality But uh ralph was very close to both frankie carbo and frankie polermo those you know, they were titans In the not just in the mob, but in the boxing industry. They controlled professional boxing And uh, he told me that I believe he told me frankie Carbo was the shooter, but Yeah, it's another one of those case studies that a lot of it's Lost in the in lore whatever the phrase is because then there's other Theories that actually luciano and lansky weren't behind it It was it was some other thing that seagull got in trouble with in la I tend to think it was the new york guys because of this because he was skimming from You know this this operation and he was shot through the eye Which was then dramatizing in the godfather when the mow green character which was Inspired by lansky or sorry inspired by seagull Hyman roth character was inspired by lansky. Yeah, and in the movie He gets shot in the eye and the sopranos they That they coined the term a mow green special Right. Yeah. Yeah, so and I and I think because buggy seagull was so iconic You know that and it was so dramatic beaverly hills being shot in the face um National headline story it easily could be our number one, but it's not So our number two another one that could easily be at number one Is of course the disappearance of labor leader jimmy hoffa. It's a topic We've talked about a lot not only on this show, but scott's written Published a lot about jimmy hoffa. Uh, we've both appeared on a number of documentaries talking about hoffa So it's in our backyard. It's a case study. We're particularly interested in and study So one of the reasons why I made the argument that this shouldn't be number one It easily could be number one, but because it was just less dramatic in the sense of nobody It was a disappearance I think scott used the with the mosheri like we're 99.99999999 percent Sure, this was a this was a mob hit. So I definitely feel comfortable putting it in the top five It was high profile, but because there was no body like with these other examples You know, they find find the guy in the oil drum g in kana shot in his kitchen bugs. He's shot in the mansion um Nobody therefore I think it's it's it's should be number two instead of one But definitely one of the most high profile In terms of murders in in really the history of the underworld and both going back to sicily and the united states as far as i'm concerned I mean in terms of americana and pop culture It's definitely number one But that's not that's not how that's not the metric that we're using to put this list Yeah, yeah, and and just in terms of like significance because he was such a powerful Political figure not just an underworld figure one of the most recognizable people on this planet Right public figure very public very powerful very juiced in terms of politics And I can't really when I talk about this case study with my students I I honestly can't think of a parallel today of what that would look like I I don't I don't think there is and and if you can think of someone The idea that they would be killed in an underworld thing to me is unimaginable today. I mean that that that's what that's how big Of scale we're talking about the disappearance presumed murder of hoffa in 75 Yeah, july 30th 1975 disappeared from Bloomfield plaza strip mall right down the street from where I grew up Was going to a sit-down at the red fox restaurant hoffa was going to meet Detroit street boss detroit mafia street boss tony jack aloney new jersey mafia capo tony pro provanzano To discuss his desire to get back into the teamsters union. He had been the president for 13 years stepped away in order to get a A commutation on a sentence. He had been sent to prison. He was supposed to do 11 or 12 years If he gave up the teamsters union He could get that cut to like four or five years He agrees to that gets out doesn't Either doesn't understand or doesn't care that part of the commutation barred him from running for Teamsters presidency again He's The the the huge part of the story that just gets buried and I have no idea why this hasn't gained attraction that you thought it would He started he becomes a confidential informant for the fbi Yeah In the last year or two of his life and starts feeding them information on what he knows about the mafia and and Their role in the labor unions in exchange for their promise to get that ban on him running For teamsters president lifted and it it was a certainty That if he would have ran if he would have been allowed to run in the 76 Teamsters presidency. He would have taken back The union and he threatened to to cleanse it of all organized crime influence Which at that point meant cutting off the teamsters pension fund which had gone to buy Build back to vegas vegas, you know numerous other business hundreds of millions of dollars worth of loans billions of dollars of loans very low interest to very shady characters who then take those loans invest them into businesses that they steal from um and Extort right the mafia didn't want him there anymore even though the mafia are the ones that put him in he was too much of a headache and it was just really Quite full of himself didn't want to take orders thought that he was Just as big of a deal as the mobsters that he had had to come as benefactors and when they told him to step down and Go to florida and retire he started threatening them Going on national television and threatening them So it was really just a matter of time and and the question, you know that we've been trying to answer for 50 years now is Where's the body and who did it and I think we know Back to the 99.999 percent we know and uh, so you know, he was killed By the Detroit mafia that he was an asset of the Detroit mob dating back to the 30s He lived in Detroit The tony jackaloni was his his point his point man um The jackaloni is in the Detroit mafia. I I always say they had a phd In mafia murder nobody's ever been convicted of a mob murder in the Detroit toko's early crime family And there's been dozens and dozens of them over the last 100 years so, uh What I believe is that they kidnapped him that the car consisted of at least Billy jackaloni, tony's younger brother and Tony palazzolo who at the time was a young mob soldier And they took him to Another location where they said that he was going to have a sit-down that they they moved it from the restaurant To a location he felt comfortable at most likely. I think it was carl ocata's house Which was the another mob soldier mafia prince. His dad was the mob boss of la His brother-in-law's were the acting bosses of the The toko brothers who were running the family on an acting basis at that point And they probably killed him at locata's house And then I think they took him to central sanitation in ham tramuk and incinerated his body Central sanitation burned down like a year later before the fbi could get a search warrant to go in there was most likely in arson and the owners of central sanitation were followed by the fbi Two days after hoppa disappeared or three days after hoppa disappeared to new york To meet with tony selerno and other members of The genovese crime family so I can button up and tie it up into a nice little bow I don't think you're ever gonna find a body and all these guys are dead. So you're not going to arrest anybody Jimmy yeah, I I agree. Yeah, I agree. That's the theory that I subscribe to you too. And by the way You know, this is based on field research and interviews with Former prosecutors former fbi agents also people who were in the underworld at that time So, um, I'm pretty confident in in in that theory that you just laid out that that's what happened And just some more shameless self-promotion Uh, you talked about the person who who owns central sanitation and was sort of surveilled in york Jimmy quasarano. He might keep that telling jimmy quasarano, right? So jimmy quasarano was tied to frankie three fingers copula who we mentioned a little a few minutes ago And uh, big drug traffickers Sicilian drug traffickers and they were connected to hoff of you know going back to the 1930s And so shameless self-promotion. We did an episode you can look through our library on Detroit Cozenostra family and it's ties to the global drug trade which a lot of that plays in with with hoffa He plays a big role in that too the last thing i'll say in terms of who was the actual trigger man It's a theory that the fbi has just in the last decade Really solidified in their mind and right now as we're approaching or past the 48-year mark Going towards 50 It is a consensus amongst investigators right now that tony palazzolo was the killer And that's a name that does not get mentioned when when you're talking about this narrative Uh sally bugs braggulio who was one of tony pros guys in new jersey billy jack has gotten a lot of uh name recognition but right now At this part of the investigation the belief is that tony pal did it and that tony pal leveraged his role in it to To go pretty high up in the detroit mob and was someone that according to the investigators There were people that knew this and that and it became currency for him around the country And he was caught on surveillance talking about it. And then he was caught in the 90s. He was drug up drug sting, right? it was uh palazzolo was running a money laundry For drug dealers. Yeah Okay, so he wasn't actually dealing the drugs. He was taking the drug dealer's money and cleaning it for them Okay, uh and was doing it between detroit and canada Right, yeah, I knew winds were part of that and they and so they had a bug they had a bug in his headquarters Which was the detroit sausage company Yeah, well, and that was that's what he said we ground them up into sausage Which i think gackard's bullshit. I think too, right? I think he was being he was busting balls I don't I don't think that's true and and sort of your point about you know In some ways feeding disinformation about what what happened to him He eventually became a capo and then uh conciliary He died of stomach cancer a long ago. Yeah 2019 2019 So, um, let's reveal our our big number one. Yeah speaking of Sicilian drug traffickers someone who actually uh new new frankie copula our number one I think a lot of you probably guessed it by now is the murder of carmine galante July 12 of the banano crime family july 12 1979 Yeah, I would say probably the most infamous mafia hit, um I guess you could say maybe castellano or I well, I should say the saint valentine's massacre If we're talking about nationally the saint valentine's day massacre But that's obviously in the winter the castellano hit is in the winter So if we're talking new york, uh, I think the you know Galante hit is is up there is one of the most iconic Um, and if we're talking about this summer, I I'm pretty comfortable placing that number one pretty gruesome And it and it made headlines across the not just across the country But uh around the globe the guy they called the cigar the man they called the cigar died with a cigar in his mouth um, you can't get more uh, you know Pull it I don't pull it just this is the right way to say it but that was like Taylor made for a Pulitzer prize winning Photo of his of the crime scene. It was apropo apropo And he was another fascinating guy. I have a particular interest in galante You know, my my primary case study is castellamare del golfo And so galante was not not he wasn't born there, but his his parents were so he was castellamare's and uh galante would travel, uh, internationally and to canada to Sicily, so he was um part of the original heroine pipeline from sicily to The united states going back to the 1950s specifically the, uh, you know, 57 conference in Palermo with luchiano, banano, badelamente, frankie coppola But um, pappa john pretiola was there by the way, detroit heavyweight This is sort of now i'm going on a tangent here, but talking about detroit being underappreciated You know at this international conference even some of the five families didn't have representatives at that conference and the gambinos and bananos did but um Uh, chicago didn't um, you know cleveland didn't but detroit had a representative there So, uh, he also is tasked with taking over montreal for the banano crime family So he's a really interesting guy a really mean guy Um, he's probably involved in the assassination of carlo trezka um anti fascist activist in new york city during the world war two like a thorn and musolini side So galante is at the intersection of all these interesting stories. He goes to prison on a drug charge And i believe he was i believe he was in prison with hoffa He was they actually got yeah, i think they they were kind of bosom buddies at first and then i think they had a falling out Regarding provanzano, i think yeah, i think the falling out with provanzano put him at odds with some of the other italian bosses yeah, so um, there is another hoffa connection here it's interesting because while galantes in prison there is an uprising within the banano crime family and um uh, some people oppose joe banano like uh, gaspar digra gorio who's another customer race mafioso or mafioso And uh, he's backed by stefano magadino and buffalo it gets very complicated and other customer race and and he's he's actually related to both digra gorio and banano and joe banano loses just Long story short here joe banano loses goes into exile in arizona But there's an argument to be made that if galante were on the street Back to my point of him being a mean Mean, uh, you know bad-ass motherfucker Uh, he was the soto capo the under boss And there's an argument to be made that if he were on the street joe banano may not or might not have lost That civil war so when galante gets out of prison. He's got some scores to settle He he's mad that some guys didn't side side with joe banano during that that war He's also got a hard on for uh, he doesn't like carlo gambino. He doesn't like frank costello He bombs even though those those guys are dead And he bombs frank costello's Tomb the day he comes out as some type of message for the rest of the underworld that he's here And now he means business and right, you know things of the old are in the past and now he's the the new boss of bosses Yeah, and so it gets kind of murky that the politic the politics of the situation because A lot of research indicates that phil Rusty rastalli is the boss of the bananos at the time, but he's in prison And so galante's move is he's in prison. I'm not I'm on the street now And he and he's sort of by force of will takes over any over the family And he I alienates and insulates himself From the from the rank and file. He brings all these guys over from sicily He's younger guys and and surrounds castellamari specifically right. Yeah cheserey benaventria baldo amato total catalano And uh, they are his kind of family within a family. They're making a lot of money drug dealing and he's detached from The street and from a lot of the capos and alienated himself not just within his own crime family, but from get the gambinos In other crime families where by 1979 you have a lot of different major players in the new york underworld that Come together For for a common goal, which is to get they call them lilo, which is what's required Cigar and Sicilian. No, it's actually that's actually the name comes from camilo. That's where the nickname comes from lilo's camilo I think that the cigar thing was sort of an urban legend that got Tight to it. The the the decision was that that he had to go and Let's let's before we jump into the specifics of his murder on july 12 79 When I think about the the top four guys we have here bugsy, hofa, gin, kana Anglante, you know the common thread are all Guys that thought they were above it all they thought they were bigger Than the situation that they like by pure force of will that they could Outrun or You know get away from what has always happened That somehow that they were gonna they were going to change the narrative because they were such a A force of will in their in their personas. I agree the hubris like that I think all four you could even put roselli in there all five had this sort of attitude that no one would dare Right, no one would dare Try to take me out because i'm that fucking You know dope i'm that i'm that much of the the man here that no one would dare And I think with with galante now moving it back to july of 79 Galante thinks there's no way cheserey bonaventure involved or a motto or good at Betray me these are my guys these guys are with me every day I I trust them like they're my own sons because they're young guys are well 25 years old 26 years old Yeah, and and bonventry has the pedigree too. He's kester moray's and uh in his uh, uncle Giovanni bonventre was a was a high ranking member at one time In and I just just for clarification catalano was was not from castellamari, but he was he was a zip He was from Sicily. I can't remember all the time. I had where he was from But um, but a motto and bonventre absolutely were from castellamari. So he's surrounded with these guys They're making a lot of money as scott points out galante is also basically trying to monopolize the heroin trade because you know The gambino's are kind of partners with them He's trying to muscle them out And and even the other families who aren't in it as deep as the bananos and gambinos But they they still have their hands in it and galante is basically trying to to monopolize The the the heroin trade and as you point out He he's ruffling a lot of feathers, but he's he's he has hubris, right? He's like I can do it and no one's going to stop me Well, so they know that he's going to A lunch on july 12th in brooklyn uh So restaurant was called joan mary's. Yeah, and it was owned by a cousin of his I believe I believe so yes Or he was going to meet his cousin there or one of his cousins was with him. I think lena terino was another of the I'm embarrassed. I can't remember. Uh, I believe some either the owner of the restaurant or terino was leaving for italy That week or that weekend. So it was kind of like a goodbye Have a good vacation Lunch well, there were and and those were the um, what's the term uh for casual the um Casualties of war that aren't intended. Yeah collateral dam collateral damage. Yeah, right? So he's At joan mary's. He's on the patio kind of in a private table Bonaventure and a motto are there at the table his body guards his body guards uh and A car pulls up with mask gunman. It turns out we find out later that the gunmen are Bruno and delicato anthony and delicato. They call bruno who's actually still around um, and he was the son of uh, sonny red One of the powerful couples at that time Sonny reds Right hand a big trinny Dom Trinchera who was the mentor of viny gorgeous basciano He viny gorgeous was was big trinny's driver And then a lesser known guy russ morrow I believe were the the three shooters that weren't Bonaventure and a motto who also got some shots in Yeah, that's that's been i've heard that from multiple sources including frank penessa another shameless plug here Who's been on her show? He was undercover dea agent He was actually working with bonaventure and a motto and he he's one of our sources that Um says a motto and bonaventure plug Shot um into him on their way out as they were walking out So the three masked men come in They start spraying the uh patio Calante and i believe two other people are are dead um and Yeah, toronto was killed for sure and i uh i think copula too Yeah, i'm embarrassed and then fbi surveillance has Bruno indelicato traveling to little italy Within an hour i think and being Congratulated out On the street, but they didn't do this in surveillance footage of that. Yeah, right being congratulated by uh neil de la croche Who was the underboss of the gambino? So it's not he's being he's being congratulated by a boss of another family and Both bruno indelicato and chaser a bonaventure who are in their 20s Right in 1979 become capos Based on their roles in in the assassination And this is another example of where we're talking about where it's Not only over-determined multiple reasons why people want him dead, but also multiple families Kind of you know working with each other And i think that's what you have with the with the hoffa hit too by the way It's not i think detroit quarterbacked it, but i think they were consulting with Yeah, the the genovese and and probably the outfit too so you you had a situation where It stabilized things for a second um between 79 and 80 Things kind of got copacetic again in that family, but by 81 um Things were fraying and the family was split And we we've talked about this and people probably know that are watching us The donnie brosco three copo slain which was fallout from the galante hit two years later when sonny read a big trinny and and feel lucky uh are snuffed out In a big power play by joe massino and rusty ristelli And and bruno was supposed to be killed first of all he was supposed to be killed At the 2020 club when they drew them there and and and shot him all to death, but bruno For some reason did not go to that meeting and then donnie brosco jopa stone was Was given the contract on bruno to get to get made into the mafia But they pull him out of the undercover operation bruno was able to Survive it and then go on to live another five ten lives in the mafia He's been in and out of prison a couple more times convicted of the galante hit and convicted of uh, the frank santoorl hit With binny gorgeous back in the early 2000s just came out of prison last year. He's in the 70s Yeah, just to to clarify here. I'm looking at um the book from ralph bloom and thaw the um last days of the sicilians and uh, yeah, you're you're right Joe toronto was his cousin cojino his cousin He owned the restaurant and and he and uh, leonardo coppola Are um killed as well and uh, I I'd have to double check I'm not sure they were in the intended targets That I think they may have just gotten the way but definitely, you know galante was this was a coordinated attack on him Yep, so I think it's a pretty well-deserved honor for him. Uh, that was uh That was that shocked the system in in new york It they're hadn't Go ahead. I'm sorry. Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, I mean the you had the joe colombo thing that had been seven years before that but I don't think anybody expected one of the the dons of the five families at that point to be You know assassinated in a insurgency like we saw happen Yeah, and a very public execution and I agree with you about shocking the system because it really changed the landscape because we we talked about rostelli And with galante out of the way there there was a real shift political shift in the bonanos back to the italian american side of the the borgata and The fact that amato and bon ventre sold him out shows you that the sicilians were were basically shifting their their support to You know rusty and and then the sicilians also were part of the killing of the three captains, which was to benefit rostelli and misino and After galante goes the sicilians really are no longer this kind of like Semi-autonomous faction within the bonanos they pretty much get behind the italian american leadership yeah, and um When you're talking about bonaventury, he didn't get along with rostelli And he was murdered in 1984. So that's five years later, right and his murder is Triggered no pun intended by a sit-down he had with rostelli Where I I think he got up and left in the middle of the sit-down because he was mad at what rostelli was telling him And I think he gave rostelli a go fuck yourself. I'm not listening to you Yeah, and my understanding is is that The the sicilians were were getting behind the italian american leadership But a lot of this is the sort of kind of paranoia you see with scarfone guys like that is bonaventury was the one guy They suspect that misino and and rostelli suspected if if the sicilians did want to sort of Make a move He was the one guy with the charisma and the juice even though. I don't think he wanted to I really don't I think They killed him for no reason. I mean maybe the the slight or you know that but but I don't I don't think he was conspiring I mean, I think bonaventury was was happy with with his you know position within that burgada, but but if there were if there were someone to Take that mantle and kind of resuscitate the sicilian faction it would have been him So I don't think they trusted him and how they got him into the car where they killed him They told him that he was going to meet rostelli And that he thought that he could go Make amends with rostelli Yeah, they apologized for telling him to go fuck off or You know mitigate the damage he had Done in the weeks prior and it was just a way to the murder Yeah, and there's another interesting footnote to that where When salvatally who was misinos under boss and brother-in-law when he became a cooperator they asked him What was the what was the rules of engagement of baldo amato shows up with cheserey and he said misinos had to kill him too And when that came when that was disclosed misino was He he made sure he got word to the zips within the family. I I never said that I didn't say I didn't say kill baldo Because because he probably did what you probably did. Yeah, because baldo baldo was a player in that family Into the two thousand a hundred percent right and he had a lot of guys behind Yeah, so misino what you want to make sure though. I never said that I didn't say The whole genie genie crew was at one of you know cafe genie. I believe either a model owned it or was a Had people front. Yeah, those are his guys. Yeah, and he and he was still connected to sicily. So There's just kind of an interesting footnote, but yeah, I think this was a fun episode a little different Historical a little bit. You know, we don't we don't do a lot of lists But it's kind of fun to mix it up and do something like that. So We'll see we'll be interesting to get the feedback from people in the comment section What they think if we missed any or if they would rearrange the list We'll like subscribe share Uh, we'll be back next week with another full episode for band behind the glass The doctor jimmy buchelato and myself stop Bernstein og pod out