 Middle Tennessee, I am kind of isolated from the world because our little area is called a micro-polleton area, which I think they made that word up. And it's because we have 35,000 people in our town, but we get 150,000 people traffic wise every single day. So it's like, I just, I live kind of out in the country. I stay at home all the time. I work remotely with the vast majority of my clients. And a little bit of background, he gave you some of it, but in 2009, I had been a graphic designer forever. I have a sales background. I made all my own stuff for my own sales presentations because I never did like what the company handed me and said, here, use this to sales. I was like, no, that's ugly. So I ended up going to graphic design, started with Publishers. Anybody remember Microsoft Publishers back in 1998? And moved on from there to Photoshop. And then I started just messing around with Photoshop, started making some art, had some friends go, and that art's really cool. You ought to sell that. And so I started printing big, giant pieces of art and selling them. And it was really fun. And then I realized, well, I need a website. So I got online. This was in 2009. Got online. And I said, you know, gotta figure out how to build a website, gotta learn this. So I went through, looked at Squarespace. I don't know if anybody remembers Squarespace in 2009. It was like brain damage. And then went to, I ended up with Concrete 5 at that point as a CMS just because I needed a blog because I was going to blog all the time. No. But so went through that whole process. So we got a 2010, we had a friend that was crazy. He had more money than he had since. And he wanted me to run his media company for him. So he paid me $72,000 a year to run his media company and build websites. And I'm going, OK. He goes, and I want you to build him on web.com. And I want you to sell his websites to other people. And I'm like, that's the stupidest idea I've ever heard. Let's build real websites. And so at that point, I took what I had gone through with all my other stuff. And I said, all right, we're going to looked at Jim La, looked at Drupal. And it was kind of all the same thing. You know, I'm getting, I'm looking and so finally I just landed on WordPress. I said, all right, I'm going to learn this, I'm going to do it. He immediately hands me three e-commerce websites to build. Now I'm sitting there going, OK, let me figure out how to get through the famous five-minute install first. And then at that point, at that point, yeah, we're ready to go. Because it was just, it was so easy and I could do it. And how many in here have like choked up on that in the very beginning? You choke up on the five-minute install, you're going, OK, I'm doing something wrong. And you realize as you get into WordPress, how the vast amount of stuff out there can make it so incredibly difficult. And so basically what today's talk is going to be is I'm going to take you guys through my journey and how I got to the framework position where I am right now. And how hopefully I can save you guys some of the pain and agony that I went through for three or four years. So and the other thing too, feel free to ask questions at any time interrupt me because I don't have any notes, so I'm just going to be winging it on this anyway. So any questions you have, feel free. OK, so we're going to start with my old process, which was so 2010. Thank God. Hey, new client, we're going to build a website. So let's pick out a theme. I want you to go pick out a theme and then you can call me back or email me and tell me which theme that you picked out. Has anybody ever done that? You don't have to raise your hand, I wouldn't raise my hand on that one. OK, and you're going to pick out that theme and I'm going to customize it. And at this point, what do you do? At this point, you've got the thing. The clients picked out the theme. They're like, I love that theme and I want my website to look just like that. We hit the black hole. How many have hit the black hole in development? Development for me, there is a black hole, still a little bit on just about every project because I call the black hole where you know exactly what you're doing and you're so excited and you just can't wait and then you get in there and you install the theme and you've got all the plans and then you go and you start second guessing yourself and then everything starts getting blurry and black, so black hole gets deeper. OK, so welcome to Themefleet 2016. This is virtually how many choices there are of individual themes out there. I just looked up a little while ago because WordPress.org is continuously updating. Because of an hour ago, they had 3,876 themes alone on WordPress.org to choose from. Here are a bunch more of the different, not a bunch more. This is just five or six of the one, but OrganicThemes is a well-known group. ThemeFusion is pretty well known. The other ones I just kind of yanked off the internet just because there were, I don't even know how many Google pages of theme companies. So you can just totally really dig into that or you can get lost in. So we've got our theme kind of picked out and at this point you've dug and you've dug and you've spent a couple of days looking for something that's going to match what they want, match what you want and you've shuffled through all this nightmare and then you install WordPress, famous five clicks, then you install that theme and you activate it and then you look and you go to, oh, there's the theme options hidden over here someplace on this left side because that theme force theme was written by a guy that's probably done one theme and did it the way he wanted to do it, whatever that was. And so you look at that theme and you go, there's the options and then you open it up and there are nine tabs across the top. There are 14 tabs down the side and you're going, I don't even know what to do. This was the one they chose and now what am I going to do? So you literally spend the next three days or four days learning how to work that theme and as you, as you learn and as you dig and as you, and you finally get to the point where you've kind of figured it out a little bit. Now you realize where you are in your schedule and you realize the deliverable that you promised that client if you're at that level and then, you know, there's just nothing you can do. Can't get that time back. And then three months later, you've built out the theme, you've done all the customization, it's so fantastic. The theme update comes. You lost it all. So we're going to talk about frameworks and how that can change your perspective and change the way you work and change everything about literally how you view WordPress. And y'all, I'm just going to have to hit the slides a little bit early. That was all the funny stuff anyway. So I'm going to hit the slides a little bit early because I don't have a preview here. So, okay, so we're going to talk about starter themes versus frameworks. A framework, well, okay, we'll talk about starter themes first because I got that first. It's a shell that you build parts for. You will build like you take the shell. Well, underscores is a really good example of time by automatic. There's a lot of help out there for it, but it's very, very, very, very basic. As in blank screen, basic. So you take the starter theme, it's a shell, you build parts for it, and then you own it forever, meaning you have to support it forever because you were the one that built it. There is no support for what you did. So have I got that? Theme frameworks have core and then additional core functionalities with child themes. So if you think, when I say additional functionalities like custom fields and some of them come with a slider spot built in and some of them come in with parallax, does anybody know what parallax is? It's that cool, floaty thing. I really aimed this at a super beginner crowd and you guys are looking way more advanced than that, so. If you eye roll, do it quietly so I can't hear it. Does anybody know what a child theme is? I did not at this point, so that's why we're going through. But a child theme is a theme that inherits the functionality and styling of another theme. So like the parent, the parent has the structure and then the child is kind of like, I always think of it as a copy that you can totally mess around with because if you just totally break it, then you can junk it and bring in another copy and it's not a horrible thing. And to me, if you don't break it three times while you're building it, you're not doing a good job. Okay, so the framework comes kind of like this. It comes set up kind of ready to go if you think of this as like a model ship type thing. One of the advantages of frameworks are save time and like we talked about, three to four days. When I, my process was typically that I would do a site, it would take one and a half to two weeks and I built one site at a time because I just wanted to focus on getting that one finished. When I switched to the framework company that I use now, literally it was two years ago and I literally went from a two week build to a three day build. What happened with that was at that point you've got clients that are ready to pay their deposit and then their mid-range payment and then their final payment and they're thinking they've got two to three weeks. At this point it's three days and they're going, I don't have that money. So another thing, another bonus that has given me is the ability to tandem projects together. So now I run six at a time. And with what I'm doing, I always kind of know where I am in the project with this. And this was supposed to be the kill two birds with one stone joke, but it's not written down, so. Okay, one of the, with a framework, you take the framework, which is the base, you add the child theme, whichever one that you do. And it gives you the option to just customize a little bit to give you the fancy website, that your client will love. If you just want to customize colors, maybe change the font, that kind of thing. Or you can get full blown super fancy with all kinds of bells and whistles and as far as you want to go with it. The framework just basically gives you that super awesome code base and then you build from there. Okay, so the parent, we talked about the parent-child relationship. So the parent theme you install first. The child theme is your copy for safe editing. Safe is kind of an interesting term. You have to learn it deeply. And that's my recommendation to avoid wasting four years of your life at this point. If you're in the beginning stage where I was, is get that framework, whatever framework you choose, learn it deeply, deeply, deeply inside and out. Okay, so we have, I picked the floor that I journeyed with. They're not necessarily, except for one, they're not necessarily the best, but they are what I used in progression. So that's why I did it. And I've got some more listed at the end. And these notes will be somewhere I don't know where. They're on slides here. I'll figure out how to put them in the Slack channel too. Okay, the first one I started with, I lived in Oklahoma City and Builder is actually in Edmondo, Oklahoma City, which is a suburb. So I kind of went with those guys because they were local. And I figured if I had a total nervous breakdown, I could drive up there and flip out in their office. Corey Miller looked at me when I told him that. And he's like, thank God you didn't. But, okay, so Builder is the company started in 2009. And they started with the name iThemes because back then that was pretty much their primary thing. They have branched out way, way out into plug-ins and they do plug-ins. They do, they have a great e-commerce system. They pretty much have everything within this company that you need. They have a huge internal forum. They have, okay, the learning curve level. Builder, I'm gonna go back to this. Builder is actually, Builder is the parent theme, the framework. And then they have several, several child themes, several like over a hundred child themes for Builder. One of the things about Builder is there's so much functionality. And when I talk about functionality, I'm talking about when I said that the theme forest guy that put all those 9,000 things, doesn't quite have 9,000 things, but it has a lot. So we're gonna go through kind of the pros and cons of Builder. And there's exchanges there, e-commerce, just blanked out for a second. Okay, the pros, the huge library of child themes. They've been building child themes for Builder since 2010. So you can think about how big that library actually is. The educational resources, Nathan Ingram is actually somewhere here. He does a lot of their recording for their education, but they have continuous all the time. They have a huge library of videos, but they also have a huge library, or a huge continuous webinar training series going all the time. So if you're new to WordPress, or if you're helping someone that's new to WordPress, because I have several that I help as well, I always point them at this for education, because it's very beginner easy, intermediate easy to understand. They have an annual lump sum payment, which includes everything in their site. I have, I've had a lifetime, the Lifetime, or not Lifetime, the lump tool kit. Tool kit, that's, thank you, Kate. It's called the Web Designers Tool Kit, and it includes everything. And it's an annual thing, but it gives you the education, it gives you all the plugins, it gives you all the themes, all access to everything. They do have a good size form community. It is within their website, and you have to be a member to access it. But if you buy any of their plugins, like Backup Buddies, anybody ever use Backup Buddy? I would die without Backup Buddy. So if any of the plugins that you buy anything, you do get into that form, and it's great. It's e-commerce compatible, and they do have their own e-commerce system. And one really cool thing about Builder is you can have different layouts for every page. So let's say you have, you want your About page to have a slider or something at the top. It's a module-based, it's not widgets, it's modules within the back end that you build it with. So if that's something that seems interesting to you, like building with blocks, this is a good system for you to use. The cons, big learning curve. When I was talking about the modules, every single page has to have every single module. So it takes a while to learn that. They have a CSS system that you can, a plugin that you can add in to help customize CSS, but the problem with that is, it's really hard to figure out. So on a scale of one to 10, I gave this one about a seven for the learning curve. It's a little bit harder to customize to make it not look like it did when you installed it. So just keep that in mind. And the community is pretty much all for them. So does anybody have any questions about Builder? I'm sorry, I can barely hear you. Yeah. Yes. That actually would be covered in a talk tomorrow by Kate Neubill right here. And she's doing one on different e-commerce solutions, but this exchange is one of their solutions and it can be PayPal, Stripe, they sell add-ons for it just like anything else. And then if you buy the whole system, you have all the add-ons. So if that's, you know, and if you listen to Kate tomorrow when she gets into the exchange explanation, there are definite places that you would want to use exchange as opposed to WooCommerce or whatever. Anybody else? Okay. Oh yeah, more cons. Not all the child themes are responsive. Everybody knows how critical responsive is right now. It's 60% of your Google ranking. So that is kind of a big deal. So just know that if you get in there, make sure that you select responsive when you're choosing, you know, when you're sorting and filtering for looking for themes, it'll tell you responsive or not. And the sticker price, I have a car background, so the sticker price MSRP is $700 a year. You can almost always find online a 35% off coupon. When you go to re-up at the end of your year, then you will go, I think it's like 420. They give you a 40% discount to re-up. So for everything you get, it's an excellent $420 to spend, yes. Okay. Right, okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was not aware of that. So, because like I said, I haven't looked at, I haven't really looked at Builder until this week in five years, so. But good point. Okay, I will add that in because I'm doing this talk again. So that's, thank you for that. I will. Okay. The next one that I moved on to from Builder because I had to, Builder had not done, when I was in that process, Builder had not yet done the exchange. And so I needed, he gave me those sites to build that were e-commerce. And so I said, okay, I'm gonna use WooCommerce. So might as well use a Woo thing. So this was in at the end of 2010 beginning of 2011. WooThemes was pretty much WooCommerce and a whole bunch of themes. If you guys remember that. And so I learned WooThemes there. Again, they have a whole customizer. If you can see, yeah, I thought I screen shot it there. WooThemes has, their customizer is very, very, very, very in depth, just like Builder. It's totally different than Builder. It is all on page, but it's all tabs and there's a million down the left of different things to do. So if you like tons and tons of options to customize tons and tons of things, this is a good one for you to look at. It is now known as WP Canvas since automatic bought it. So you can find it in the repository as well. Learning curve level, because it's more customization than actual theming, I gave it a five. And then there's the link to it. All these slides we'll have links to whenever you guys, if you wanna look at them. But the Canvas, there's the Canvas link, WooCommerce. A really, really, really good thing to help with Canvas is PoodlePress. It's a company out of London. The guy's name is Jamie Marsland. And they have an academy for $74 a year that you can get on. Not only can you learn Canvas and everything about it inside and out on that academy, but you can also learn everything inside and out about WordPress. And the Academy, even if you don't do Canvas, the Academy is fantastic. So, and I also am a member of that because at that point I was like, well, I gotta buy this one too. So, but that one has been worth it. They also, somebody was talking earlier about page builders. The PoodlePress company has a page builder for Canvas that is a plug-in and you plug it in and you literally at that point can turn any single page on your website. You can build it however you wanna build it. So that gives you the ability to make every page different if you wanna do it that way. It's not one I would recommend handing off to a client and saying here you can build your own pages cause it's not super easy to use, but it does work well. So we'll talk about the pros, shorter learning curve. It's a lot more customized than code meaning that it's a lot of settings. So if you're a settings cowboy and that's how you like to do websites, then this is a good one for you. It's obviously WooCommerce compatible. It was actually coated with WooCommerce in mind. So, and one other thing that I put in my notes that I don't have, WooThemes has also done Storefront and Storefront has a ton, well not a ton. I think there were 14 that I saw but they're just starting this. Storefront is being used as a framework with child themes now to build out a store like that. So if you guys are leaning, if anybody's leaning heavily into e-commerce this is a good one to look at because now that automatic owns it, it's just gonna get bigger. And then let's see. Dedicated section for custom code. They have a section for custom filters, custom hooks, custom functions and custom CSS. So you're not actually ever really working in your theme files. You're just adding code on there which is great because yes it'll, it can still break the site but at least you know where you put it and you don't have to put it in back and figure out. Okay, the cons. It's a really, really big framework. So if you have a super image intensive website, you probably don't wanna use this because the framework itself is really big. It's kinda slow. So in my opinion, there are way too many options. In my, considering what I have moved to now, this took a whole lot longer to use. So if you're really good at customizing and clicking and making all those settings happen and you memorize it and you know exactly your steps, boom, boom, boom, how to go, it's great. It's also $399 a year, which I consider really expensive. And then that's only for the themes. The reason I consider that expensive is you don't get any plugins, you don't get any education. The documentation is not there yet. It's pretty good, but it's been building for so long that it's kinda like, has anybody ever had a hard time with PayPal documentation? What themes is right behind them in that line? That's all I'm gonna say. But yeah, so $399, you gotta really be aimed at storefront or really just want the ease of something you're gonna just set settings on. Okay, the next one that I looked at this one, I didn't actually, I used a couple of the themes from Elegant Themes back in the day and they were all kinda the same. So I think that's probably where they came up with Divvy. One of the reasons I'm using Divvy for this talk is Divvy is very, there's a huge, huge, huge support group out there for Divvy. So they have a podcast called The Divvy Nation. So learning curve level for Divvy, it is basically kinda sorta a page builder. So I just kinda snuck it in here because it's so big. It's not specifically a framework. It can be used as framework. You can child theme it, and they have child themes for it. So here are some of the design samples. And I can't, well, I guess I could click on it, but I'm afraid to, because I don't know if I'll ever get back. But those are some really good design samples. Some samples of what you can actually accomplish with Divvy. I was really shocked considering how far elegant themes has come with this. But all of those links, the category resources, the elegant marketplace, they have all the themes, and then they have tons of plug-ins and stuff specifically for Divvy as well. And then get Divvy on elegant themes. Okay, the pros, the huge community, like we talked about, lots and lots and lots of options. And you will see that as you, you know, later when you're checking it out. The elegant marketplace child theme maker is really, really cool. It is like a customizer where you can build your own child theme for Divvy. So what makes that cool is you don't have to lock into a particular child theme. You can literally, and a lot of companies are starting to do these. So you can get in there, build your child theme, have your site look exactly like you want it custom, custom, custom. Divvy is also very responsive. It's 249 for all the themes forever. So I give it a, yeah, are you Divvy users in here? Awesome, have I missed anything? Yeah, that's why I was talking about the child theme maker. Oh, that's the one I found. It's on that elegant themes marketplace. Huh? Ah, okay, cool, good to know. Good to know, I'll add that to you. Premium, and the 249 is for all the themes, premium support, and all the Divvy plugins. So that's by far the most economical deal on here. The cons to me were the learning curve, just from all the options, just like all of them. And to me, it was a little harder, it looked a little harder to deep customize. Meaning if I wanted a page to break off and fly over to another part of the screen, that would be kind of hard to do. That would be hard to do anyway, but yeah. Okay, so now we're gonna get to my favorite. This is where Five Years Has Brought Me, and it dropped me off two years ago. I had a friend that was going through major extensive breast cancer treatment, and she needed, she was trying to blog while she was in chemo, and needed her website totally redone because it had crashed. And so I said, it was December, typically in December I try to do a couple of pro bono things, just because it needs to be done. And so she, I said, all right, I've got a pro bono spot for you, and I'll build you a blog. So I said, this is the perfect time to try out Genesis, because all I'd heard from all my friends were Genesis, Genesis, Genesis, oh yeah. So I got in there, I literally, once I got it, I got in there and literally built her blog in four hours, start to finish. So we're gonna give it a learning curve of, I think that was supposed to be like a 7.5. This is Genesis is the highest learning curve of the ones that I'm bringing out today. However, once you get it, there is no more learning curve. So here's where you get it, studiopress.com. It was written by the guys at Copy Blogger. And then here are four of, these are four of my go-to. I have them linked where I can get to him really fast, but carrydills.com, somebody else was talking about her earlier today, yeah. And she has a great podcast, Office Hours FM. Her podcast used to have more Genesis stuff, now it's more business stuff, but her website is phenomenal and she's hysterical. I mean, so you just read her stuff and you just go, oh my God, that's funny as crap. And then Sridhar, he was in India, he is now in Australia. So if you actually wanna reach out and talk to him, you have to count and figure out what time it really is there. But he writes tons and tons and tons of tutorials online. And he also has his, he's in the Genesis Facebook group. He has a ton, he has his own Facebook page now, like a business page. And so you can get on there and if you want, if you want Genesis to do something, you don't know how to do it, you get on there and you ask him and he'll write you a tutorial. And include the code and everything. I mean, he is like gold. StudioPress.com, get started, that's basically Genesis 101. And then she's here and I've used several of her plugins, Robin Cornette, she actually lives in Chattanooga, she is a developer, a Genesis developer, and also a plugin writer and she's just really, really cool and there's a lot of good stuff on her website too. So let's get into the pros. Time-wise, holy crap, I can't believe I've gone this long. Beautiful code, beautiful code, beautiful code. Genesis code to me, the reason it's so beautiful, it is so, it's very well organized. It's amazingly noted. Meaning when you see, and I know, I know half of y'all know what I'm talking about, but when you see the great outlines, it's telling you specifically what each line is doing or each chunk of code is doing. Which makes it that fast to find what you need to get in there and change. Has more plugins written for it than any other framework out there. And it's widget-based, homepage is widget-based, which makes customization super, super fast. They're not all HTML5, but it is now the vast majority of the themes are HTML5 and StudioPress has started releasing all of their new themes, they're also accessibility coded, which is super critically important. And responsive as well. More pros, since we had more cons. The schema, SEO schema is baked right into the code, into the backbone of the site. I have a real estate agent, this is a case use, I have a real estate agent that had an old PHP HTML website forever and like literally since 2006. She basically got nothing, but by her broker was told she had to have a web presence. So she hired me to build her a new website and I used Winniage and Pro by Keri Dills for it. Within three weeks of launch, she had had 19 leads already. She hadn't had 19 leads from that website in the whole history of the website. And we really didn't do any SEO for it. It's just the difference in a new, actual responsive, really cool site. Gorgeous site. Versus what was there before. Okay, it's hook-based, which means, and I really, at this point, I wanted to have a slide up here with a wall with a bunch of hooks on it. But if you think of a website as the header, the navigation, the body, blah, blah, blah. Each one of those sections is its own thing, as you know from looking at the code. Well, Genesis allows you to hook into whatever, wherever you want to add something or delete something or move something. You just hook it. So if you think of a, Genesis is your pegboard and your hooks are how that works. I say cutting edge designs because they are constantly coming out with the newest, whatever the trend is, Genesis is gonna pop out in the next two or three weeks. Brian Gardner's gonna write something super cool. The price is not horrible, like Builder, like you pointed out with Builder. You can buy one copy of Genesis for $59.95. Yes. No, you're fine. That's the second time I've seen that price, but on the website it's just for $59. That's like, yeah. Well, and so, that's pretty much what we think that's the difference is when I'm all on, I get that price, but when we go to the end, I get that higher price. It hurts from the before they get the price. Ah, okay. Okay. It goes on sales sometimes. I believe they're getting rid of the lifetime that they are great public domain. Right. Get it now. Get it now. Get it quick, yeah. Cause WooThemes did that too. They grandfathered us in on that. Yes, well, how that works is they will credit you for whatever you bought. So if you buy a child theme and then you buy another child, cause that's how I did it. I bought one child theme and I bought another one. And then I tweeted or something and I said, can I use that money against a lifetime license? They said, sure. It was like $126 or something. So that's another way to get into it. If you want to test out a little water, but you can buy Genesis and it comes with a sample theme. The sample theme is free. And there are free themes out there for Genesis. If you just Google free Genesis theme. So, you know, if you want to just play around with it and not invest yet, it's one of those things, Genesis is one of those things you either get it or you don't. There is no, oh yeah, Genesis is okay, you know. And I, we actually have a part of a collective of developers that, and I don't call myself a developer cause I'm not, I'm more of a designer, project manager. But we have a friend group, collective base of 35 developers kind of around the world. So at this point, I can pick up the phone and call any of, there's like 15 Genesis builders in there. And so I can pick up the phone and call them. You know, so there's so much resource out there and that's another reason that it worked great for me. More cons, or not more cons, the cons. Can be a super steep learning curve if you're not code driven to get it. And like I said, you either, you will look at it and you'll go, I don't get this, I don't want to get this. And then maybe Divi or Canvas is where you need to be. But once you get it, you get it. And then you might need code help at first and that's why I gave you the links with Shridhar and all those people. And I can't think of any more cons. Here is several other really good, huh? Did you know about Design Palette Pro for Studio Cross? Yes, oh, actually I did, Design Palette Pro. And that's another really cool thing about studio. I need to add that. Design Palette Pro is a plug in that was built by Andrew Norcross in Sarasota. And it is a plug in that you can literally design, it's like a customizer, you can see it live, you can design live and do all your CSS. Another great one, and we were talking about EMP, the child builder for Divi, dynamic, D-Y-N-A-M-I-K is also a child builder for Genesis. And you can put that in, you can build your theme, you can actually extract it as a child theme and then load it in as a child theme, pull dynamic out so your client can totally jack it up. And then, which, we've never had that happen, have we? Ever? So yeah, the dynamic is great, Design Palette Pro is great. Genesis Extender is another one. And Genesis Extender works really well for functions. So you've got Design Palette Pro for design and then Extender helps you with code and makes it really easy to do. Does anybody have any questions? I'm sorry? I haven't ever personally used it. How does Extender work? With JavaScript? You still have to know how to write your own JavaScript. But I mean, JavaScript is a zone special little world, I think. Yeah. I don't know the answer to that question, but because I haven't used it, but I have used Design Palette Pro and I have used Dynamic. Dynamic also has chunks, places for you to do your own code. So, and that, you know, you can literally build the child theme all within Dynamic. You don't have to FTP into functions or anything like that. Okay, we'll go over these real quick. Foundation is another one. Headway is, it calls itself as a framework. It really is kind of more of a customizer, page builder type thing. Make by Theme Foundry is the new hot child on the block. I didn't have a chance to even look at it because this week was crazy. But check out Make because I know that Chris Lemma is a huge fan of Make. And lots and lots, I've talked to several people just in the course of the last few days that have really liked Make as well. Gantry, every time I did a search for frameworks, Gantry popped up. So I put it on here just because it might be worth looking at. Do you like it? Is it awesome? It's really Gantry. Huh? Okay. Oh, okay. So we gotta put that down. It's free. Love free. Yes? In foundations, not a theme framework, it's a CSS framework that you wouldn't do with. Okay. Take that off. That's the end. Okay. So if anybody else has any questions, thank you.