 Run it up, they run it back. Run it up, they run it back. Run it up, they run it back. Good morning, Thursday morning. And welcome to Run It Back here on FanDuelTV. Introductions first because we've got some huge breaking news right off the top here, but stadium insider Shum Sharaniah, Chandler P, Lou Will, my name is Michelle and Shums, wake up, look at my phone, as a healthy person does, and then boom, Minnesota Timberwolves, the number one seed with huge news, Shums. What's going on? Carl Anthony Towns, I'm told, has a meniscus tear in his left knee. He's going to be sidelined indefinitely. The last 24 hours, Towns has been researching, talking, getting second opinions from doctors on how to move forward here, what treatment plan is best for him, and the potential need for surgery as well from what I'm told. I mean, this is just devastating for the Timberwolves. They're the number one seed in the Western Conference, 43 and 19. We know Carl Anthony Towns, he's a competitor. And finally, he has a chance now to win at a really high level. And he's in the midst of a big season, 22 points a game, almost nine rebounds a game, three assists, shooting 52%, 51% from the field, 43 almost from three point range. And so for him, for shirts, it's devastating, it's crushing, he played in his fourth All-Star game this past, you know, this past month. And the Wolves are the second best record in the NBA behind the Celtics. So just tough timing for him as the playoffs are about a month away. Dude, this is when sports are just an absolute kick in the butt. Yeah, they've been flip-flopping with Oklahoma City. Denver Nuggets are right there. Guys, Chandler, obviously, how bad is this, really? It's bad, and I've had an abundance of meniscus tears and surgeries and rehabs. And there's a couple of different options here. It's fully torn if they're going to stitch it back together, if they're going to remove it fully. But no matter what, he's looking like he's going to miss a lot of time. And it's obviously with the procedures and the technology, everything's getting easier. But this is just a huge blow. This is a team that really has shocked the world, how they've begun the season, how they sustained that, how they still continue to be at the top of the Western Copper standings. But it's just tough. We talked about yesterday, fully loaded. A lot of teams don't really fear this team. And now you take away their second best player, arguably their first best player on some nights. It's a huge blow. And they do have guys that they can sub in, not read. Thank God they re-signed him. And he's had a great year. And they can go small with Kyle Anderson, McDaniels. But you can't really replace Carl Anthony Towns. This is a huge blow to them, a team, obviously, with high expectations now after how they got off to a hot start. But this is going to make that first round matchup even more difficult for them if Carl Anthony Towns is not able to play. Lou, I mean, this is about as bad as it gets. The timing sucks. They are, I think, three games ahead of the Clippers, who are in that four spot. If you had to kind of look at it now, and I know Nasreed can do something, but do you think this Timberwolves team is going to fall as far as maybe four? Man, it's going to be a fight. We talked about this final stretch of games. Everybody needs to go in healthy. And this is a huge blow for the Minnesota Timberwolves. We've talked about it all year, them and OKC being one and two, being at the top of their Western Conference and seeing if they can survive those positions to get to the postseason. And with Kat going down, this is a huge blow for the Minnesota Timberwolves. Good thing they got going for them, the Pelicans are fifth. But they're three and a half games back from that fourth seed, so do they slide all the way to four? We don't know. We don't know how the Clippers had a big win last night. OKC is still playing well. So you've still got teams right there that are playing good, competitive basketball. With Kat being out, that gives Nasreed an opportunity to play extended minutes, who's probably going to be a sixth man of the year candidate for the Minnesota Timberwolves. Obviously, you still have Ant-Man, who's going to anchor them on offense. You've got Rudy Goldberg, who's also going to be a defensive player of the year candidate as well. So they still got a lot of firepower, still got a lot of role players that can give them great opportunities to keep going. I don't see them sliding all the way to four. Luckily for them, this happened with only a limited amount of games left in the season. If some catastrophic happens, I see a slide. But I think they remain top four. See, I think they could slide all the way to four. They're only two and a half games ahead of the Clippers. I think that these teams now are getting fully healthy. They're starting to peak. And again, when you look at the standings, there's so much basketball left. It's hard to kind of see and try and pick your match up. But if they get to the fourth seed and they play in New Orleans Pelicans in the first round, it's probably their most favorable match up, honestly. So there's too much time to tell right now. All I know is the Thunders are playing well, and they're healthy. The Nuggets are playing well. They're healthy. And the Clippers are playing well, and they're healthy. So those three teams, I think, are better teams anyways. But again, they're even, right? They're even with the Thunder. And they're one game ahead of the Nuggets. So I definitely think there's going to be some shifting in the top three. But again, I think Nasri, this is on him. They re-signed him for this reason. He's a very capable player. And then this is Anthony Edwards. Like, you're the guy. You're the guy with Cronin at the Towns. Now there's even more on your plate to dominate and to help kind of finish this season strong. Hey, tell me, you know, this also is going to come down to scheduling as well. I'm curious to see what they have left on the schedule. You know, if they got some favorable match up, some games that they can sneak by and get through these tough times, I think they remind. I definitely don't have them sliding out of the four. You know, we're saying them sliding to the four slot. Very much possible. But I think if they got a favorable matchup, they got some favorable matchups coming up, I think they survive. Yeah, they'll definitely be home quarter advantage. They're not going to follow six games and get to the five spot. Yeah. And just overall, like, I think we got to give Colin three times this flower. We've all, you know, we entered the season talking about what's his future? What is the future of the term will look like? That, you know, the combination of Rudy Gobert and Carl Antony Towns together. Will it work? And clearly they've had amazing success. Chris Finch has gotten all these guys to buy in and play at a high level. And Colin Antony Towns show that he can be a number one, number two, any given night on a championship contending, playoff contending type of team. The other thing I'm curious though, Chandler, from your perspective, from a big man perspective with Colin, they tell like, how do you navigate a meniscus tear? Like, is it like, he's obviously going to miss a level of time. Is there any chance, is there any positive news income? Like, what's the most positive outcome here that we can get? It's tough because if it's a meniscus tear and we're talking this range of motion is bad, his strength is bad, he's probably got like a real limp depending on the tear here. So it's not like he can just rehab, get PRP, you know, varsity blues, court is on him up and him play. Like, this is something that usually requires surgery. And for a guy that moves the way he moves, explosive, athletic, seven footer, it's tough. And again, you're not going to want to rush it, but you're obviously, I think that they're, you try and handle it now. And if they do make a run and then he can somehow get back in the second round, maybe or something like that. But this isn't something that just heals overnight. Again, they have to look at the scans. I'm sure they're getting second and third opinions, but there's usually two options. You either stitch it back together and let it heal, which requires a longer rehab process, but obviously you want to salvage that meniscus, really the only cushion in your knee. And it's crazy, but to remove the whole thing, that's a shorter rehab. But then again, that's going to lead to future problems that I have right now that is inevitably leads to like a knee replacement way down the line. So it's, I don't think he's coming back. When you see a torn meniscus, he's getting surgery and he's out for at least a couple of months. That is, that sucks. That is my journalistic opinion. This sucks. Not the only injury though, this is that time of year where just kind of hold your breath and hope. Evan Mobley, however, got that sprained knee, left ankle situation. Sorry, Shoms, is he going to miss a bunch of time? Yeah, the expectation is Evan Mobley will be out an extended period of time. He's going to miss at least a week before he's evaluated it again, but the sense around the team is because of how significant the swelling is in his ankle, they're going to need to wait to see that swelling of the spring go down before they can really go and establish a timeline. And just the fact that that significant swelling has been there, it's still there. It's led a lot of people there to believe that he'll be out a period of time here. And this is not the first time he's missed time. He was out in December, January with the knee injury and now it'll be an ankle. The Cavs though, they have played well in his absence. And I think there's obviously confidence within that group that they can try to write the ship depending on when he's going to be back. I mean, guys, we'll start with Mobley and then we can obviously add on the fact that Donovan Mitchell's still out. So for you guys with Mobley out, how big an impact is that, Chandler? Insert Dean Wade, Michelle, this is his chance. He had a game yesterday, stay hot. You're going to get more minutes now. The good things is they're deep, right? They have guys like Jared Allen, Carissa Burt Struse. They have a deep, the Georgie Neanderthal, and they go small ball. This is a huge ball. This is your double, double guys averaging 16 and 10. He's solid, he's so balanced. He's such a great lob threat. It's tough when we're talking about his injury while their best player, Donovan Mitchell's out as well. And it's just tough. This is part of it. This is who can stay the healthiest sometimes is the most important thing. And this team's kind of been up and down with their main guys, including Darius Garland, out for a lot of the season. So when they're fully healthy, this team's been dynamic. You saw the run they went on. You see how elite they can play. They have a little bit of everything, but get healthy, Mobley. Get fully loaded because you're thinking big picture. You're thinking when we want to get to the playoffs when we face the Boston Celtics and the Eastern Conference finals, we want to be healthy. So whatever they have to do, whatever that recipe looks like to get fully healthy for that, do it. Because I think they do have enough to get by a first round matchup, not fully healthy, but then it's going to get tough. So the East is wide open. They're only threat, maybe the Bucks, but they're going through the Celtics and they have some time until they play them. So this is tough, but I think they have a deep enough team to kind of tread Walter while he's out. OK, so just for the record, you guys, last night against the Hawks, Dean Wei played 30 minutes, nine points, which is technically up from his average. So maybe this is the beginning of something. The reality. Lou, let's figure it out. You heard all that. I mean, they're sitting in that third spot and that huge win against the Celtics let down loss last night against the Hawks. But Donovan Mitchell is also out for we don't even know how long. Do you see them staying in the three spot, Lou? Yeah, I think their record buys them some time. You know, they're three and a half games up on Orlando to stay put in third. And like Chandler just mentioned, they still got a lot of firepower, still got a lot of guys that are active that can still get the job done for this group. You know, even though Mitchell and Mobley are huge pieces of the pie for this Cavaliers team, but they still got some guys that can step in. You know, Chandler is mentioning Dean Wei. I, you know, I like Strauss. I see that he's having some injury issues as well. I like Strauss. And I like Karris Leverte to give them that push. You know, even though they're guards, but I think offensively, if you can have some guys to kind of sustain that. And then hopefully, you know, you got Jared Allis still in the inside that can eat up some of that space and take up, you know, what's needed on the defensive end. I think they got enough to survive this. I think they stay put in the third. My goodness, there's a lot going on. Shams, you also have news on Ben Simmons. What's the latest there? Ben Simmons out for the season. He's evaluating treatment plans on this nerve injury in his back that he's dealt with going back to last season. He had season ending back surgery last year. And again, his season is over now. He played, I mean, he's played 57 games over the course of his three seasons in Brooklyn. He's missed 114 of those games. I mean, in the grand scheme of this season, Ben Simmons was a non-factor. He did not play much at all this season. The Nets were pretty much a sub 500, 500 type of team when he was on the floor. When he did play six points a game about eight rebounds, about six assists. You know, obviously for him points wise, it's just gone down every season. We hope for sure that health wise, he gets there and he figures it out. But this is just another lost season for Ben Simmons in Brooklyn. He is done for the year. Good Lord, Lou, he's got a year left, 40 mil. I mean, if you're the Nets, what are you doing at this point? Who knows, man? I don't know. You know, at this point when it comes to Ben, I just, I really want him to just, I just want to see him be healthy and play the best basketball. His body allows him to play. I don't think he'll ever get back to all star caliber. I don't think he'll ever be a number one type of guy on a team again, unfortunately. And this is all due to injuries. This is all due to his body not being able to hold up. This back issue has been consistent. It's been persistent. It looked like it's not gonna go anywhere. This is gonna be something he's gonna have to rehab again. Hopefully he just gets healthy and have an opportunity to continue his career somewhere or with the Brooklyn Nets at this point. Jaller, I mean, good luck playing GM. I don't know what you're gonna do. It's tough just because the size of that salary is insane. So it's not like you're just gonna wave them. You're not gonna cut them. You can't trade for them. No one's gonna take that contract. Maybe now going into his last year expiring deal, you can kind of throw something together, but it's just unfortunate. And he only played 15 games this year. I mean, look at his numbers, six, seven and eights. Very Draymond green type numbers. It's just, we expect so much more from him. Number one pick, all-star rookie. You know what I mean? So like we had these expectations for him and he got the contract that, so with that there comes expectations. And I was in a similar situation and whether it was health, it was, you know, you were miserable. You've heard reports about his mental state not being there. Nobody knows himself like he knows himself. So like Luke said, I'd love to just to see him get healthy. I'd love to see him happy and find peace somehow. It just seems like it's not on the basketball court. And it's not going the way he thought it was. And when one thing leads to another and then it's his back and then it's this. And then it's, you know, all the drama surrounding him and his name, his contract. I think he just needs to get out of this contract somehow and get on a minimum deal. And I still think he can find some value where he can help a team play 10 to 15 minutes a game. And, you know, and because it's shocking because when I was at the end of my career, I was, I couldn't move, I couldn't play. I'll watch him sometimes. He still looks athletic. He can still get out and transition. So to me, there's still something in the tank. It's just, it's just mind blowing because how far we've come to where he was to now. So it's sad, I hate it for him. You know, as a player, as a person, I'm glad he's financially secure to get to live a great life after basketball. But this sucks because he wants to play. He wants to play at an elite level. It sucks for the Nets that they're stuck with this contract. It's brutal all around. So I just hope he finds peace somehow because it's been a real long, long, you know, two, three years for this guy. It sucks for a lot of reasons. So all the things that you just said, sort of his legacy is what it is. I mean, my reaction was immediately like you've got to be kidding me. And that's unfortunately sort of what has followed him at this point. We love to assess trade value even when guys are still active in their sports. We're doing it over in the NFL side with Russell Wilson. Is that the worst trade ever? So I ask you, Chandler, is this Ben Simmons trade that the Nets made was this the worst NBA trade that you've seen? It's hard to disagree that it isn't. I mean, with that clip making $40 million next year, getting paid as a max player pretty much with the production he's given, it's hard. And what's crazy, we were talking about the Rudy Gobert trade last year, how that might be the game and that turned around. So hopefully there's light at the end of the tunnel. There's been some bad contracts. Look, my contract was horrendous. I couldn't play it. The John Wall contract was horrendous. There's been some bad contracts and it's just, it's a shame because a lot of that has to do with health and availability. When he plays, he looks great. He looks strong. He can still be a solid Ben's player for years to come. He's still young-ish. But yeah, man, this gotta be one of the worst, which is awful. Yeah, you don't want to be that guy. You don't want to be the guy whose name is attached to the worst of anything. All right, we are gonna take a quick break. Shams, you had a busy night morning. Thank you. We will see you tomorrow. When we come back, we'll be joined by Jamal Mashburn here on Run It Back. Run it up, run it back, yeah, yeah. Run it up, run it back, run it up, run it back, run it up. York City, born and bred, Jamal Mashburn. I'm the man. Yeah, you know it. And I can't sing to men. Hey, anyway. Clicks, I'm the man. Oh, that's right. An NBA All-Star, 11 seasons in the league. Jamal Mashburn joining us now. Jamal, we gotta start right off the back because the nickname, Monster Mash. I love nickname origin stories because some people give them to themselves and others are assigned. So there are two different stories. One, that you got it playing in Harlem. The other option, though, is something to do with Dickie V. So where did it come from? Well, I know Sweet Lou can attest to this because he has the best nickname in my opinion, you know? So I will go with Sweet Lou on that one. But for me, it actually started in Harlem. But as you know, when you get to ESPN, other people want to take credit for it. So that's what Dick Vautau did. It actually started when I was a sophomore in high school and I was playing in the tournament. And I think it was... I forgot where it was at up in Harlem. And the guy on the microphone was just chatting and saying, Monster Mash. And then the next day, a reporter in Daily News ran that as a caption and just stuck from there. And then went to University of Kentucky. They would play that Monster Mash, a Halloween song and all these different things. And it just rolled from there. Oh, that's perfect. Yeah. Mash, I gotta tell you this story. So I was supposed to play in the Rucker four different times. And every single time I flew in New York to play in the Rucker, it rained. So I don't think it was meant to be for me to ever play in the Rucker. I tried four different occasions and it rained for... You being a Harlem guy playing in the Rucker, man. You gotta give me a great story about those days. Well, you know what, Lou? For me, I grew up right across the street from Rucker Park. So it wasn't actually a treat for me to play in the Rucker. I grew up watching, you know, when it was a pro-am at the end of the day, and it wasn't the EDC classic, which it turned into you were going there and watch pros like Mark Jackson, Ed Pickney and those guys. And I really played before them when they would have pickup games and different things like that. And then when I got a chance to play in the Rucker, it was a phenomenal experience. It was different. You had the guy in the microphone. You know, every time you do something great, they give you a nickname. Even though I already had a nickname, they kind of just piggyback off the monster mash. And being a kid from Harlem, it was a special place to play. A lot of tradition. I'm surprised when you were going up there and they had those rainy days, they didn't have a rain outside. It usually was the Gaucho Gym. And I know Vince Carter played in the Gaucho Gym. So I know you retired now, my friend. We don't need you in Rucker Park. You just come be a witness to it. Yeah, that's done. That's out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the way, it caught me crazy, but I think the Rucker Park rims are a little bit low, Mesh. I remember I played there one time and I was banging and eating out there. And I was like, do I got more juice or this rim slightly low? So let me tell you a little secret about that. You're actually correct. The basket that was closest to the street was actually lower and it's actually built on a slope, you know what I mean? So it goes downhill a little bit. So you're actually right. It was a little bit lower. And I remember back in the day, everybody used to go over there because they had to snack back rims and everything like that. And they were lower. So you get a chance to dunk on them before you can actually dunk on a 10 foot rim. So you're actually right. That's awesome. Mesh, you played not in one of the craziest college basketball games. Some people say it's the best game where Ladiner hit the shot. Looking back on that, can you appreciate that game or is it still just piss you off seeing the clips? It comes around every March, you know? I can set my watch too when people start asking me about that game. You know, I was fortunate enough to participate in it. And I think it was the best college game that was ever played. And I think a lot of people agree with me on that. Even though there was a winner and a loser, people got to remember Duke back then was the Chicago Bulls of the Michael Jordan era. I mean, they were a rock star, traveling rock star show with Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill, Christian Layton, and just to name a few. And Kentucky was coming off a probation at that particular time. And it was our first time in the tournament. So nobody expected a lot of us. And we went out there to compete. And I mentioned this before. You had two Hall of Fame coaches and Rick Petino and also Mike Shyshevsky. And it just felt like they took a step back and let the players play. And as you guys both know, that can be difficult for some coaches, especially at the college level. I know, Lou, you never experienced that. But at the end of the day, a lot of coaches want to have their imprint on the game. And I think those two Hall of Fame coaches really step back and really allow the players to have their own input on the game, which was, I call it, it was probably one of the best pickup games I ever played in. It was just a free-flowing. Everybody was kind of in a zone making plays. But it was a great opportunity played in the old Philadelphia Spectrum, which is no longer around. So there's a lot of history attached to it. But every March I get the call, what about that Duke Kentucky game? If he misses that shot, do you guys win the national championship? I would say no. And the reason why I say no is because I don't think we were prepared. People don't realize how emotionally high and low we were in one setting. I think we would have faced, I want to say would have been Cincinnati with Nick Van Exel, I think it was, or the Fab Five. I don't think we were prepared for them coming out of that game. And then the following year, we went to the Final Four and lost against the Fab Five. So I don't think we would have won the championship. But being in the Final Four, that would have been more impressive, but we weren't prepared to win a title at that particular point. Why are you so wise about it? I feel like most people will be like, yeah, no, we definitely would have won. Let's just keep it going. Sometimes wisdom brings you back to reality. So that's how I kind of positioned it. Yeah, exactly. Let's talk about USA Basketball, the select team, which was the college guys. And you beat the 1992 Dream Team. So take us back. What's it like to step on that court to look over there and see those guys and then beat them? Well, for me, it was, and I would say for the rest of us, Chris Weber, Alan Houston, Ronnie Rogers, Penny Hardaway, Alan Houston. I'm leaving a couple of guys off of it. You know, during that particular time in the 90s and also in the 80s, all kids wanted to play in the Olympics. And that was one of my dreams was to play in the Olympics. And I was disappointed that we didn't get that opportunity, but we got the call to practice against them. They shot us a ball and come and practice with us in La Jolla, San Diego. And our coach at the time, or the select team side was Roy Williams. And he did a great job of just, you know, reminding us that, you know, they chose some other people, essentially, and to get the best out of the situation. So we stepped out in the court and we beat them the first day in the scrimmage, but they kicked our butt the rest of the six days. And the one thing I do remember is, you know, when you go to the starting circle and the jump ball circle and you look over and you got Michael Jordan standing on one side and then you got Scottie Pittman standing on another side. And then you got David Robinson jumping and you got Magic Johnson yelling out call signals and stuff like that. You know, it was intimidating, but also as a competitor and somebody that wanted to kind of see what it looked like, what the pros would feel like. It was also a litmus test to see where I was at. And I tell people that was the day I got drafted. You know, I came back to summer school. It was the end of my sophomore year and then Coach Petino called me in his office. He said, after your junior year, you're gonna be turning pro. You're gonna be no less than a fourth overall pick based upon how you perform. So I credit that sequence of events for me to get drafted and also for me to realize that I could play at the professional level, you know, because you have no idea. You're in college, you can speculate, you can think about it, but until you get in live action and see the speed and the power and what you're up against, it's really different. It's just such a crazy visual, by the way. Okay, I have two follow-ups. Number one, did you guys run into Larry Bird at the hotel during any of this? Everyone's always fascinated by what Larry Bird says to people. Did he say anything? So my man Larry Bird, it was me and Chris Weber. We were coming into the hotel and we checked in. And as we were checking in at the front desk, they lead you down this hallway and there's a security guard there that blocks off the passage for, you know, regular people to come in. So NBA and USA basketball had completely one floor. And so we're walking down this long hallway and I say to Chris Weber, I say, yeah, that looks like Larry Bird. And the first thing you notice is how tall Larry Bird is. And he comes by and walks, he says, are you those college guys that we're competing against? He's like, yeah, Mr. Bird. And he says, well, get some fucking rest. It's going to be a long week. And I'm like, wow. And you know, it's like, okay, you don't know what to say. It's like, this is Larry Bird. You know, how do I take this? You know, am I insulted? You know what I mean? It's like, okay, you know, Larry Bird, it's all good. So, but he was phenomenal. I mean, Larry Bird has always been one of my favorite players. And if you recall, he was dealing with back injuries at the end of his career. So he couldn't sit down. He had to lay down on the floor. And I remember a time we were, it was the first day we beat them. And Rodney Rogers had said something to Larry Bird. He was like, ah, you haven't had to jump shot since 88 or something like that. And I think magic hurt it. So the next day, and Lou and Chanley, y'all can appreciate this. The old NBA was if something was working, keep going to it. And I remember Larry Bird actually on the sideline calling out, all right, Rodney, one dribble, pull up right. And he'll do it, make the basket. Next play now, Rodney, one dribble, pull up left. Oh, I'm going to the basket now, high off the glass, left hand. And it was remarkable how Magic Johnson and Larry Bird connected. And just on those conversations and different things like that and the competitiveness, it really showed me how special Larry Bird was because if you can do that as an injured player, imagine how he was as a healthy player. So Larry is one of my all-time favorites. Lou, I can imagine getting your ass busted and someone telling you how they're going to do it right before. Correct. Chanley, you're exactly how they're going to do it. Yeah. I can't do shit about it. Yeah, can't do nothing about it. Can't do nothing about it. Another thing I remember about that was how good Michael Jordan was. That, because when we were practicing with him, we would practice somewhere else and then we would come in and watch them practice and then go scrimmage with him. And if we would sit down and watch and if you watched it and you knew nothing about basketball, you would like Michael Jordan. And that dude with the ball head is the best player out there. And I remember Charles Barkley singing that Gatorade commercial while we were playing the game. Like everybody wants to be like Mike. And it was a phenomenal experience. It was just such a good time as a basketball fan to be watching all this. All right, so Coach K went on to suggest later that perhaps maybe Chuck Daley threw the game. Is there any validity to that? There's no... First of all, he was the assistant coach. You know what I mean? Let's keep that in mind. And there was no way... The thing that I do remember was that we beat them and they called the game. So we didn't even get a chance to finish. I think they called it in the middle of the third quarter or the fourth quarter or something like that. And they took the scoreboard, they took the score down when the press came in and everybody did their interviews and different things like that. So I think he was probably referencing... I think that was more for glorify a story and their participation and different things like that. But everybody was competing on that floor. So I don't see how Coach Daley had that much control to tell anybody not to do something because they were all playing. Michael was playing hard, all those guys were playing hard. So to me, that was a little false. And you're describing the most competitive humans in the world. I don't see a world you tell them guys to take it easy. Yeah, I don't see a scenario where you like, chill out, MJ. Yes. Get there as well. Yeah, I don't see a world in that. No, I think... I'd like to see that though. Yeah, I don't think it happened. But in the next six days, the intensity ratcheted up. And it was... They were different. They were different, for sure. So you go from the highest levels, college basketball, and then you get drafted, you go to the Mavericks, rookie season, a team that wins 13 games. What is that like, that sort of reality check? It's horrible, you know. I would say that the first thing that I noticed was playing for the Dallas Mavericks is... At the University of Kentucky, we flew private planes, and then the Dallas Mavericks in my first year, we actually flew commercial. So that was the first different. Yeah, and we were... The Dallas Mavericks was the last team to get a charter plane at that particular time. So that was different. And then also, too, what I recall is, in the NBA game, and you too can appreciate this of being former players, when you're on a bad team, you know it's over in the third quarter, at the end of the third. It's just like one of these things where you can't push past it, and then guys are sitting on the bench talking about what we're gonna do tonight. And then once that happens, it's all the floodgates open, and when you have about 50 of those of what we're gonna do tonight, ain't nobody showing up towards the end of the season because it's nearly nothing to play for. I gotta tell you, since then and now, Dallas has definitely gotten it together. Yeah, I got it. They're coming. Listen, as a visiting player, their accommodations are A-one now. What was one of your comment... Welcome to the NBA moments. I'm sure with this season, you have plenty. Yeah, I think my welcome to the NBA moment was my first exhibition game, because I held out, I think, for a couple of weeks or so in training camp, and it was playing against Dominique Wilkins when he was with the L.A. Clippers, and also Mark Aguirre, and realizing that I could play. I think I scored 12 points at that particular time. And as you guys know, once you get out there, you just kind of figure it becomes all about playing basketball. So that was one of my welcome to the NBA moments, and then also playing against Akema Lajuan, watching him and his footwork and his post-play. It really showed me how much I had to work on my game throughout the off-season if I really wanted to have a long NBA career. So my welcome to the moment in the NBA was, if I'm gonna stay here, I gotta prepare every summer to get better. So tough rookie season, second season, Jason Kidd comes to Dallas, and the Triple J's were formed with you, Jimmy Jackson and Jake Kidd. What was that like, and what was it like playing with Jake Kidd? I'll tell you what, if we could have sold tickets to practice to watch us play with Jason Kidd and watch people get hit in the head with balls because they didn't know the pass was coming to him. Phenomenal passer, one of the fastest guys in the N64, at that time, 215 or so. One thing I do recall about Jason Kidd was he had trouble with the points part of it in a triple double. I remember there were games, multitude of games where he'd be like eight points, 15 rebounds, 12 assists and things like that. And I'm like, Jake Kidd, you can't get that scoring, but he was a phenomenal teammate along with Jimmy. It was a good time, but I think at that time we had Dick Mata as a head coach and we were on the upswing. And I think Roy Tarpley was reinstated, so I had a chance to play with him. Phenomenal teammate, but Jason was the guy that stirred that drink and Hall of Fame career. I mean, you can see that coming into the league and obviously improved his shooting, but he had trouble on the scoring side of the statue. He would have way more triple doubles under his belt if he could have hit a couple of free throws or a jump shot when he played with me. Had to earn that J, so that was always his end of the game. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Okay, so I'm glad I got this question. We only got a few seasons of three Js, which is unfortunate. And of course us civilians, we blame Tony Braxton. So can you shed some light on what happened here? Why didn't we get more of you guys? I think it was a combination of things. The story behind that was, we were in New York City and I think one of my other teammates was dating one of the Braxton sisters or something like that. And me being from New York, I went home and hang with my people. And I think Jimmy and Jason were waiting to go to the studio and it never actually transpired. And then something happened with Tony Braxton was on a radio in Dallas and she had an album coming out called Secrets and they asked her a question about Jimmy and Jason and that whole debacle and she kind of amplified it where she said, you know, I don't kiss and tell and was kind of promoting that album and different things like that. Great for her, but bad for us, you know what I mean? And I wish we would have had more time together. I think at that time, Don Nelson senior came in and he was a general manager or the head coach and he traded Jason first to Phoenix and I went second to the Miami Heat and then I think Jimmy went to the New Jersey Nets, I believe. And you know, I would say, you know, for me that would have been a hell of a three-headed monster if we had got some chances time to spend together. And I think what we missed the most was veteran leadership at that particular time. We were all trying to plan our flag and NBA and trying to tell people who we are and what we're capable of and it never really materialized in anything long term, but you know, we were a unit to be dealt with and but we did have no veteran presence and no leaders to show us exactly how to be a professional in the NBA. And we had to learn on the fly and that's hopefully difficult for young players. You go from Dallas to a loaded Miami Heat team alongside Tim Hardaway, Alonzo Morning. This is actually around a time where I began to be an NBA fan. Before that I was in the college basketball heavy. So around your Miami Heat stint, that's when I began to pick up on pro basketball. What was that like going from Dallas to a team like the Miami Heat at that time? So a funny story about that. I actually requested, I was, I got to know one of the minority owners. They had sold the team and I think Ross Perot Jr. took over the team and one of the minority owners lived in my neighborhood and I knew they were going in a different direction and we built a relationship. And I said, Hey, I think I want to move on from here. And he said, Jamal, you know, you've been great. Give me a list of teams that you want to go to. And I said, Miami Heat and also the Indiana Pacers. And the reason I chose those two was because Larry Brown was the head coach at the Indiana Pacers and Pat Rowley was at the, was at the heat. And I was looking for stability at that particular time. I was coming off a knee injury. I was one of the first guys to have microfraction knee surgery and still continue to play but lost a lot of athleticism after that surgery. And when I got to the Miami Heat, I give Pat Rowley credit for really teaching me how to be a professional basketball player, what's required, you know? And what I mean by that is being able to show up on time, ready, prepared to go. And as you guys know, moving through a 82 game season, exhibition games and playoffs, that can be awfully difficult to do especially if nobody's shown you the ropes. He was one of those coaches that his thing was how can we get 1% better? And he would also explain to me, why does the 1% matter? And he would sit me in his office at Jamal. There's a difference between shooting 39% from three and 40% from three. Here's what your paycheck will be. So Pat Rowley always kept it a professional. He kept it 100 with me. He was always honest with me. I'm a season ticket holder now with the Heat. And so I go to a lot of games and see him in that president's box and different things like that. He's a lot more calmer now than he was when he was coaching me. But we have a great relationship but playing with Alonzo Morning, you know, Tim Hardaway, we were a close-knit group. We had a chance but we lost to the Chicago Bulls in the Eastern Conference Final the first year I got there. And then for some reason, you always match up against the Knicks in the playoffs after that. I don't know if that was TV related or what it was, but every year, no matter if we were a one-seat or eight-seat, the Knicks was in our sights. All right, good. Glad you brought up the Knicks. Oh, sorry. Oh, go ahead. I had Michael Fraction in 2015. How the hell did you come back from that? Because I still could barely get out of it from it. Yeah, it was one of the things for me was that I was probably in my third year and I really had to figure out what type of player I can be while nursing that injury. And as you know, there's no explosiveness. You can't push off. You just can't do the same thing. So if you go back and watch any film on me, my game changed a little bit from going to the basket to being a mid-range guy, essentially. So for me, it was one of those things where I had to evolve as a player because I was physically limited in what I can do and cannot do. So I couldn't work out as much in the off-season as me as playing a lot of pickups. So I had to regiment my workouts to a certain degree because my knee would swell up. But I was able to survive and become an all-star in my 10th year. And I think I'm one of the few players that's been able to persevere through that injury, but it changes your game, for sure. And it changes how you walk, how you run, pain and different things like that. So it was a lot of perseverance and a lot of thought into how I cannot stay in the NBA while being a different player that came in. So you mentioned the Knicks because in the 90s, you guys have four consecutive playoff situations. I mean, with you, I don't know how you guys got so lucky. But kids today, I mean, we're always looking for the next big rivalry. And you think back to actual rivalries like this one. So if you could explain what a real rivalry in the NBA feels like, because we have the Jeff Van Gundy Alonzo morning image, like things happened here. What was that like to be in the middle of it? You know, there was a lot of backstories that we won't talk about between individuals that made it a rivalry. Fair enough. And there were, it was also Pat Rowley, who also coached the Knicks and went down to Miami. And then also to be honest with you, I mean, Miami has become the sixth borough of New York City, essentially. Not just after COVID, but even when I play, you probably have a lot more Nick fans in the arena than you would have Heat fans, because the Heat organization is still a young organization. But also too, what I think is makes a good rivalry when both teams are winning, you know, and there's something to play for it. It feels like a college atmosphere more than anything, not quite Louisville, Kentucky, or Indiana, and whoever you want to put in that, in that a rivalry situation. But it's closer to a college atmosphere, and it becomes competitive. But also too, playing against Larry Johnson and Charles Oakley, you feel it in the morning, you know what I mean? And it's very interesting. I still talk to Charles Oakley on occasion when I see him down in New York, we very rarely talk about the rivalry or anything like that. But a lot of those guys have been good friends, good competition, and everything like that. So I think it takes winning, it takes tenacity, and also a lot of other backstories that people are personally involved with that makes it unique. We're playing the Van Gundy. Just watching Van Gundy go out and then disappear in human bodies is like my favorite part to watch over and over again. Jamal, I don't want to let you go. I know you're doing something very important, so I want to make sure we touch on that before we let you go here. But the colorectal cancer campaign, the awareness, what do you got going on there? Well, I partnered with Exact Sciences to keep awareness or to share awareness with people who are 45 and older to get screened. You can go to boxoutcoloncancer.com for more information. But why it's dear and near and dear to my heart is my mom in my 2003 All-Star season was diagnosed for colon cancer. And if we were to screen it early, we probably wouldn't have gone through certain obstacles in the healthcare system with her. She was in remission for 18 years, passed away, not from that, but from something else, a heart condition, pre-COVID. So anything that I can do to honor her and her experiences and to share awareness and to let people know that this is preventable if you take care and get screened in the proper way, you can live a long, happy life and it won't be to the detriment of you. And if you don't want to do it for yourself, do it for your loved ones that you want to be around for some time. So that's my personal connection and that's what I'm up here doing. So anytime I can spread awareness and things that have happened in my particular life and share with other people. And also, Anna Helen Mashburn, who was near and dear to my heart. And I'm a single child and she was a single mother. And so I do everything in her honor as I move forward in life. Very important stuff. And you're right. It's one of the ones you just can check for. So just go, go do it. We appreciate it. Jamal, can listen to stories for hours. Thank you so much. We appreciate the time. Thanks y'all. Have a great one. Good talking to you guys. All right, we'll be back. We'll run it back in a minute. We'll run it back, yeah. Run it up, we'll run it back, run it back. Guys, I don't know if you saw this video because, you know, we spend a lot of time watching them, but there's a Bucs fan on Monday that was given a chance. Every free throw made 50 bucks, right? That should be easy. You should walk home with a whole bunch of money. Well, let's see what he did. He watches, you know, it's crazy that he can just be short every single shot for 45 seconds. I think he made one. 45 seconds is tough. But I mean, it's one shot. It's hard to probably beat so fast, man. I know, but it's the same miss for 45, 30 seconds. I'm not making an excuse for him. Good. How do you not tweak it? He's probably terrified. There's 50 bucks. Man, that's embarrassing. There's 50 bucks. I wouldn't even want the 50 bucks. I'd be so embarrassed. I'm not with him. And you're wearing a jersey. Like it's a whole thing. It's just an embarrassing moment. That's crazy. Listen, and those type of fans are the guys that are always online trolling, trying to tell you how to do your job. I wish we could go find that guy online, and I'm sure we could, and see if he's one of those dudes that makes stupid comments, because then we could have a field day for the rest of the year. All right, we got it. He's a target now. I want to go to his Twitter. I know. I do too. He could be a really nice man. He could also be an ass. We don't know. Break time. We'll come back and wrap things up here and run it back. Run it up, then run it back. Run it back, run it up. Run it back, run it up. Bull's Jazz towards the end here. We get Colin Sexton fouling DeMar DeRozan, and then John Collins gets into a bit of an altercation here with a Bull's assistant coach, Chris Fleming. Here it is. Boom, out of nowhere. Yeah, so Colin said that Fleming shoved him for no reason. You're seeing the video here. What's going on, Lou? Boys, why can't we get along? I don't know. It looks a little confusing right there. It looked like the assistant coach kind of put his hands on him a little bit. Right. And shove, shove. No big deal, though. No big deal. I know, but why are you putting your hands on? I don't know why you're putting your hands on anybody. That's a wonderful question. And right here, this is where you get choked out. This is the part of the show you get hands put back on you by a younger, much stronger young guy. So everybody relax. Everybody looks like he was separating John Collins and the referee. Like, who? Yeah. Stand down, assistant coach. I know I was watching that one because I'm trying to live bedding out this week, you guys. And Utah did make quite the comeback, but not enough. I'm not good at live bedding. I will get there, though, Chandler. You're a big fan of live bedding. You keep talking about live bedding. Is that your, is that your vibe? It's my thing right now. I'm trying to see if I can figure out a way to be good at it. This is. Do you, do you win them? I got you. I'm going to show them to you on the internet. That does it for us. We'll be back tomorrow. Enjoy your night.