 This is still why the morning, if you're just joining us, you are still on time because this is the first interview of the day, but you missed some good talk that we had with Vah and Brian Sakwa, but you will be seeing them in not too long. But first, we start with this interview. We want to talk about depression, overcoming depression, and how exactly can we do that? And for this particular conversation, we have a champion who's championing against it. That is Nahashon Poel, who's a, you know, should I call it survivor? No, a champion. A champion. It's that different thing. When you talk about a survivor, maybe someone has gone through something, but maybe isn't that through whatever this person went through. But a champion, you are a lived experience of something, you are ready to talk about the journey it went, and you are really proud of who you are at the moment. Wow, amazing. So you are the champion here. Tell me a little bit about Nahashon. Introduce yourself a bit. Nahashon is a mental health champion, like I said before, mental health advocate. I'm a DJ, MC. Yeah, right. I'm a dad. And you're a dad. Yeah. So many hats. Okay, amazing. Now we want to know your journey. How has your journey been with depression? Now you're getting to overcoming it and being a champion for it. So do you mind taking us from when it started? Because I know that it started from a toxic relationship. Yeah, right. Yeah, take us through the story. What happened? Yeah, as I said before, I'm a DJ. So I happened to be working in some big corporate in the country at the moment, at that moment. Okay. How long ago was that? Like four years ago. Okay. So five years, actually. Yeah, this is 2023. Oh, so five years ago. Yeah, five years ago. So, you know, these times when you have to travel away, you'll be away for like maybe two weeks, one month. And I had moved in with some lady. Yeah, so this lady actually loved her. But then when it all started, she was actually pregnant, six months pregnant. And her miscarriage happened. Her miscarriage, I wasn't sure. Okay, at that moment, I just knew it was a miscarriage. But now, sometime after that, I went away for work. I coming back, I actually found out that she had moved away with all my belongings. You had moved out of the country? No, out of Nairobi. Okay. For some assignment outside Nairobi. Okay. Yeah, for some two weeks. Yeah, so when coming back, I just found out that she had moved away. She had actually, she had moved out of my house with everything. Everything, except your house clean. Yeah, but it never hurt me. Now, what hurt me was that after that, a friend of hers calls me and be like, nahashona, I wanna tell you something. Because she felt like she was regretting because they did it together. She was like, whatever happened the other time about the miscarriage, it wasn't actually a miscarriage. It was a performed abortion. So, yeah, and you know when we are so youthful and when first bonds do come, we have very much expectations about our first bonds. You have actually known the gender of the... Baby. Yeah, and everything of that. So I became so alcoholic. I never knew how to deal with the stress. I never knew how to best or best I could cope up with the stress. So it actually escalated the condition, it wasn't the condition. By the time I came to realize, you know, I actually, I even never knew about mental health. Let me take you back a little bit. So before you came back and you found that your house was swept clean, were you in communication with her? Yeah, by the time I was coming back, you know, when you communicate that I'll be coming tomorrow. Now, that's when you realize that she's no longer talking to you. But I thought maybe there was a blackout or something. Okay, but you've been talking my long, like, continuous talk. Yeah, we've been talking, yeah. And when you come back, you've been told that it's Ulihama. So I'm like, Ulihama, Nikanda, Api. Okay. Nani Mekuja. Or yeah, of course, you know there's this notion that actually when the elderly see the youth doing well in life, to some extent, they feel like the money is controlling us. So it was some somewhere mid-month, she moved out somewhere mid-month. So the management of where I lived, maybe they thought that love doesn't need to be controlled or man, I'm not going to move. But they even never both had to call me, yeah. So it was actually like a, let me say a parable. For me, it was a nightmare. Coming back, it was Umihama and everything that, you know. Yeah, you were surprised, you're shocked. Yeah. So by the time, it came to a time actually, I went with a drew from work from my friends. I actually took most of my time drinking. I became a very hard-working drinker. Hard-working drinker. Yeah. So you really put a lot of energy into drinking. Yeah, I could take some better part of my day, enjoying, serving some drinks, you know. Because I never wanted to be sober because when I become sober, what comes to my mind is everything about the pregnancy, everything that happened. Now you're coming to realize it was a performed abortion, you know. Yeah. And you make matters worse, you know. You have actually planned how this kid is coming. You have some kabaiku, komebay, kunanguo. And after taking everything, alia cheese over to kuanyumba. So it was like kuanyumba in akani kama. It is a very horrible scene, you know. Yeah, so to some extent, I had to move back home, you know, to Ushago. So that's where now everything became, because, you know, as a man, we tend to be like, they musculine it in me. I have to be fighting everything for myself, you know. So it was very hard for me to talk to my dad or mom because they had actually warned me about the lady before. So how will I come to them and tell them, hey, you warned me about this lady and this, what she had done? So I feared because I felt like they could judge me, they could like... It was sort of embarrassing. Yeah, yeah, sure. Including friends, they knew I had a lady and they're like, oh, and where's your lady? I can't even talk to them. So the best I could do, I could just avoid them. And you know, life up country is very cheap because the drinks there, the local drinks, they are very cheap. So I could actually... There's no time you could ever find me sober because once I become sober, I'll be regretting everything. I'll be thinking much about whatever that happened for a full year. For a full year, you were just drinking, but stopped working. You had moved back to Ushago. Yeah, yeah. So there's actually attempted suicide severely. During that year? Yeah, during that time. But I thank God, none was successful. That's why I'm here today. Wow, we didn't think much about that. When I first said about whatever that happened to me, I feel like I've been carrying some very big burden that, I guess, Mama Pema, maybe the help could be that early, you know, because you were sharing whatever that went through to someone and someone hugs you and you feel their love, you know. So this is the time actually I was introduced to some mental health practitioners. So when did you get to that point that you decided to share? So all this while, I was drinking, drinking, people probably are judging you at that point where I was drinking and all that, yeah. So how did you come to open up to someone who could realize, come by opening up? It was so funny actually. My mother is a pastor. So there's this friend of him who knew me since my childhood. So it was like, you know, how soon you ain't good, you ain't well, you know. I see that, yeah. So like he seduced me to talk. Wow. Yeah. Now being that I'm actually a pianist, so around that time when I shared the experience to him and we actually made like a covenant dealing with me, just between me and you, let me not hate from somewhere else. Yeah, no one, you know. So there's this time church will buy some new equipment and the only person that could handle the equipment was me. You know, at this time, I'm actually, I'm still an alcoholic, you know. But my dad will be like, hey, in case you have to come to a church, so make sure you come to a church as a piano. I had red locks. And my, you know, you should go and you'll be like, so I'll be in church. What will be happening? What will be people saying about me? Yeah. And this is your dad telling you, Keshawna Koja Kocheza. Yeah. Wow. I never knew he had been told about the experience. Oh, okay. Yeah. So it got the d-day. I was actually, dealing with church mapema, I got set up, I got talk, because I knew there's, there was some guy who was a pianist as well. So I just left. I was like, yeah, I'm going to do my job. Yeah. Yeah. But then, I had told some friends of mine, Keshawna Kocheza was a piano church. He was there. And they were like, yeah. So I told them I was going to meet. They were going to meet. And they were like, they were going to meet, they were going to church. Yeah. Was it true? Yeah. And I went to church, but then I went to church. I'm a very good vocalist as well. Oh, okay. So I remember leading the prison worship. Wow. Praying the, playing the piano. So there comes this time, your testimonies. Now what I'm saying is my testimony, for me, at that point, I don't even understand what testimony is. To me, I wasn't actually that ready to give out my story. Yeah. Yeah. Now, who passed on all this guy who... When you were confiding, yeah. He comes to me and he'll be like, he comes to me and he's a Samson. No, he was this Samson, no, he'll be like... Oh, do you have my ready? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, he comes to me and he's like, I'm not sure if it's true or not. And I think you are the perfect match. Like, you need to give out your experience. Where? Experience. I was like, hey, I'm not sure if it's true or not. You give the story at 12 years old. Yeah, I'm not sure if it's true or not. We actually argued for like 30 minutes. I even never knew, you know, my voice is very big. You know, I was like, I'm not sure if it's true or not. So... Sometimes, I'm not sure if it's true or not. Oh, but you whisper. I don't know if it's true or not. Oh, she does. I don't know if it's true or not. You know? Yeah, so I never knew, all this time, Atoms, Diana, Schiezer. So, and my dad is this kind of guy. And the service was on? Yeah. Okay. He was like, I'm not sure if it's true or not. I don't know if it's true or not. He's like, I'm not sure if it's true or not. Yeah, and my dad was like, I'm not sure if it's true or not. So, I'm not sure if it's true or not. I know that I'm not the one who's like, I'm not the one who's like, I'm not the one who's like, But then, you know, all this time I'm at home, I knew, so many things that people are talking about to me. I know there are some friends of mine when they come to talk to their parents, not to be with them. Sit in bed and have a hard time. Yeah, because, when they come to talk to me, I'm not sure if it's true or not. I'm not sure if it's true or not. It's not working out for him. Yeah, like literally, people knew I wasn't okay. Yeah? But now, we are in a country where mental health isn't that well addressed. So, the stigma around it, the myths, the everything around it, they are really devastating. Yeah. Yeah, they really, they are really amazing people. Especially for a man. Yeah, so, I said, I'm not going to give a testimony, but let me give my experience for people to understand why I am the way I am today. You know, because, like you're ungrateful. Yeah, you know, and people were like, tell him cut us off. Furthermore, he was a great deal off and we should go. People will be like, well, he ended up going to Bika. Yeah. And being that I majored into the music industry, people actually know, in the industry, what we are in Bika, you know. Yeah, so, the stigma around it, I don't know if it's because I'm a movie. What I want to connect with my episode is that I'm a, I don't know if it's because I'm a skier, I don't know if it's because I'm a skier. I don't know if it's because I'm a skier. I don't know if it's because I'm a skier. Yeah, sure. So, actually gave out my experience. I remember one of my mom's best friends just came and hugged me. Can I be a... You lived in front of the church. Yeah. She was actually in tears and she was like, hey, I'm a harsh one. I said something bad about you. Me, number two, it's me. You know, at that time, I felt like I was in tears. You are in a certain episode where things are just happening and you don't even understand why they're happening, how they're happening at that particular moment. But now, like, after that night, I felt like I think I did something. I felt like I can just walk freely. Exactly. I felt like I can just walk freely. Yeah, you're not scared to take a walk. I felt like... You know what I used to read, Tempia Sanha, Tempia Sanha Nukokijijini. Comfamous in your time. Yeah, my friends actually came. Some of them were like, come on, leave me. Yeah, and I'm like, bro, you're one special guy, you know. So, some of them were like, some of them were like, I feel like maybe I've been wasting my time. I can do something better. Then some three, four days after that, I'm introduced to some mental health practitioners. These, I'm taken to some four, five sessions here. But then it'll be the time I get to meet them. Because they are so costy. So it'll be the time I get to meet them. I'll say, hey, I'm on the show. So, I'm on the show, me, me. That's show, me and I. You know. The day I get to meet them, I'll have to go to the dog. Bring that up also from the other side. So, I'll have to go to the dog. What did you listen to? Yeah, because, yeah, I feel like from the sessions, I actually had to take my, I had to start my recovery journey. You know. I need to get back to work, be someone. Because it has been a year down the line. I've just been drinking, you know. And what I decided after that actually, wasn't that easy. Because one of the things that I actually decided was no more alcohol, like, no more drugs. And it's not like that. Because I had been someone when I rely on alcohol that much. You know. Like, I can't be that sober. I remember those first times, they were with the drug wall symptoms. Because I was in the hospital. You know. They told me to make it, make it, and sweat. And I didn't have time, like, someone me, even a family member. And I said, I don't want to go to the dog, at least I don't want to go to the gate. But I was like, yeah, I was like, no, staggy. This is my journey, I'm fighting this. Yeah, I'm fighting this journey. Yeah. Wow. But then I realized I was about to home. I may be seeing some people, and these people confessed to me that they said something bad about me. And there's some people, there are people you actually, to some extent, you felt like they were your role models. You know? Yes. And they've been seeing some... What? Yeah, so I had to decide and come back to Nairobi. Yeah. So I came back to Nairobi. That was in 2021. Somewhere in February. Now, most of my recovery journey has been here. In Nairobi? Yeah, and I can tell you it is never easy. Being a man, being a DJ as well. Like, I don't know what, how men are actually, when you're in a society, when I get, when it comes to mental health, they stick around it and everything. You're not supposed to be weak, if you're in a kind of, it's a weakness, you're supposed to be strong. Yeah. So since I joined the basic needs, basic rights, Kenya, we actually ran a campaign in Nairobi in order to speak up. Whatever that I'm doing now, actually. Speaking up? Yeah, we are trying to challenge the stigma around mental health and also trying to make mental health a global conversation for everyone. And also creating safe spaces for people to come and feel like, because we have people, you know, people from very different types of careers, the social classes, because there are some of the things that make people actually go that deep into mental health disorders because someone may be feeling like I'm a principal or a lecturer, but then I have a mental health issue and this was the trigger. Now that's the most tricky part. Triggers make people keep things to themselves. Triggers make people keep things to themselves. Yeah, because like what triggered my mental health was a linear toxical relationship, you know? So these triggers, to some extent, people feel like it is, people are going to judge me differently. People are just going to be like, it's called gossip. It's called the main topic of gossip to many people. That's why people fear speaking up as well, you know? There are very many things rotating around mental health. And also in a country where, as I said earlier, mental health never dress that much, you know? That's why I told you my dad is a pastor, but I don't advocate for someone with a mental health issue to go for prayers and just be that, like, what is it that when you suffer from malaria, you are taken to hospital, but when it comes to mental health issue, you're just taken to churches. So what do you advocate for? What should someone do? We have mental health practitioners. Like, there are facilities that offer mental health services. Yeah. Like, you need to find someone you can share to first, if at all you feel you can't, you can't get to a mental health facility. Talk to someone, because not every mental health issue that needs to be taken for medical attention, you know? So you can confide in someone that you trust? Actually, the first step to recovery is speaking up. There's nothing else. Yeah, there's no way you can do whatever you're going through, if at all you can't speak up. And for you, it was enough speaking to your dad's friend, at least it's initiated the whole process. Yeah, sure. Yeah, because I feel like, if at all I never shared at that moment, maybe I'll not be here today. Yeah, maybe I'll not be alive, because I was also suicidal. And speaking of that, being suicidal and some people are going through that even now as we're speaking, what gets someone to that point feeling that I need to go? Because you see nothing more is good with life, because you feel like you lose hope and you like it too. Nothing, you feel like, when I go to my mom's house, when I feel like I'm at home, you're just there. You're stationed somewhere. So when it comes to mental health issues, like you find there's so much going through in your mind that you feel like you can't handle them at once. So you feel like, let me just take this. To some extent, I don't feel you're a burden to them. Maybe the people around you. So you feel like, what you need to do is to help them go. Let me just do it with my life. For you, and you said thank God that you did not go through that plan and that's why you're here. But what made you stop it? Made you, I don't know, if you want to share that experience when you wanted to commit suicide, but you didn't, what made you stop? Like I said, actually, even at this point, I'm getting to share my experience at church. I was still suicidal. Even then? Yeah, but the love I got from the people, I felt like I'm still useful, you know? Because when someone goes through something and they're suicidal, someone feels like I'm not useful to anyone. That's why you'll find someone who has a mental health disorder. They don't have to go to church, like they're belonging, on the streets, they don't have money, they're too poor, because someone is looking for love. Like, it doesn't matter if it's a mistake or not, it's up to you. Okay. Yeah, that's why, those are some of the signs actually, these mental health issues. So someone just seeking for love, you're out there? Yeah, or someone feels like they're suicidal. So let me... Let me say, I'm still a child, I'm still a woman, I'm still a woman. Okay. That's why you find someone is doing some... We'll be doing something good today. I don't know if it's successful or not. I mean, you wonder what happened. Yeah. And why is it that, sometimes, maybe this was not your case, because with your case, you are drinking a lot of alcohol, maybe not in that state of mind most of the time. Why is it that most people that go ahead and suicide, usually they're happy people? You know, what was the manga? She was happy, he was happy, we don't understand what happened, we were just with him yesterday. We had a couple of drinks and I looked at the sound also. What do you think that's the case? Because I told you, like I said before, like I'm trying to look for love from people, such that in Nikianda, it's not the same as in Nambaya. I get it. Yeah. I'm also trying to make people not read my footsteps at that current, at that particular time. A face that is not... Yeah, so I'm trying to be in a very happy face, a very friendly face, you know, for someone to relate with me well. But then, I don't know if I'm going to die, but Keshav, I died by suicide. And for you, it's the love, love is the solution. The people that are going through this, that depression needs to be shown love. Well, you know, also, people tend to believe that sometimes, let me say for me, after Nikianda, I suffered severe depression, I was diagnosed, I even never... I was shocked, you know, because at that particular time, I even never knew what that was. You know? So to some extent, people get recited because they feel like at some point, they are going to die. I get it. Like for me, I even never knew if it was time, I'll be again on my, on the decks, you know, doing what I do more. Yeah, I feel like, like my career is just done, my life is done. There's nothing more I can do. Yeah. Okay. So what would you say to someone going through that same experience that you went through? We need to speak up, we need to make people understand what we are going through, because to some times, there are different types of stigma, and one of them is self-stigma. When I have self-stigma, it's when I feel like I can't share my experience with someone because I feel like this person is going to feel bad about me or treat me differently from... this person is treating me at the current time. So we need to get that stigma off. And we also need to know that mental health problems is not the end of life, you know. What do I want to say to people? I'm here. I want to go the way I was there back then. I said to myself, I've been sober all that time. Someone will be like, I don't know what to say. So since then, no alcohol? Yeah, I've been sober. Wow. Yeah. It's a decision that you made and you've never looked at it. Yeah, it's a decision that I made. Because, you know, when someone... that's why people are always advised when you have a mental health issue, never use drugs, these hard drugs for therapeutic purposes because they were in this situation. That's the time I actually learnt about that. And I felt like if I told these what is making me be the way I am, then, you know, but now I'm raising a kid of a family. Wow. Yeah, I'm back to work. I'm productive at the moment. So there's hope? Yeah, there's hope. Yeah, sure. Okay. You've talked about the self-stigma and it's true because when you... people speak up, you know, the fears that someone has when they speak up, someone will teach me differently. It's probably true. Someone will not look at you the same way. But why would you say there's still the need that... it's still important to speak up anyway, whether that person will look at you differently but at least they understand now. Yeah. We actually lack the safe space. Our safe space is whereby I know I'll share something with you and you'll help me cope up with that situation positively, you know. We lack that safe space. That's what we're actually doing now. That's what we've been doing like in the past. The projects started in 2019. I joined in 2021, you know. We go in communities, workplaces, schools. We talk to people. We make them understand the reason as to why. Because if at all I'm not well informed about mental health and you have a mental health problem, when you tell it to me, I feel like you're downgrading yourself, you know. I feel like you shouldn't be telling that to me. That's why I'll go to someone else and I'll be like, it's not a story. It's just a story. It's not a story. It's just a weakness. You get. Now, if we create this awareness well, I feel like even the suicidal cases will reduce greatly. And we need them to reduce. Yeah. Actually being a man and from the WHO research, it shows that most suicidal cases reported are actually among men. Reasons to why. Reasons are actually the masculinity we have in ourselves because I feel like I can never share because I'm a man. You know. I love what some ladies do. A lady will just come to you. I'm not sure. I just want to tell you something and just listen to me. She'll share with you something that's so emotional. But then by the end of it she'll say, thanks for listening. You know. For you, there's no one who can relieve some pain from herself. You know. But for a man, she'll say, I can't let you go. True. I cannot tell you. Like, she'll say, I'm a man. Especially a man to a man. You can't. Yeah. Even, even a lady can say that you are so weak. Actually, I ever told someone about my experience. A lady, I'll say, you're so weak. Right. Yeah. But then, now that I've taken a series of trainings, I know how best. I know if they do happen. I know the stigma must be there. You know. Yeah. Yeah. So, what should someone do now? You know, someone who's going through the situation, you know, using a depressive state. I'm going through this and this. How should you, how should you react? The situations, the scenarios are very different. Because, there's someone that will come to me. It will be easier for me to handle that. You know. There's someone who will come to me. And, that person, that person will come to me. That's why for us, we usually do referrals. We help the community health volunteers. We usually work with them. Yeah. They are much trained and they are much trained more than what, more than I am. Because, I'm just an expert of my own experience. You know. Yeah. So, when you tell me about your experience, I can't let you go. I must make sure that I refer you to someone when you're at 90%. Yeah. Yeah. Because, to some extent, there's someone who can tell me when I'm at 90%. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much, Naashen. Thank you. I want to close this up. But, what, how can fast, how can people, you speak up a campaign that in September or two around, or someone can actually look for you and you direct them in the right path that they should seek help from? Not my personal information. Because, I did it once. You know, we have this, when I suffered severe depression, see it in Lipona. That's the funny thing about mental health. You live with it. It's only that you're trying to be your own doctor. So, you have to manage it. Okay. You know you're leaving me. You know. Yeah. There are some boundaries I have to keep. Okay. So, someone may be telling me about the experience. Now, let me give you an experience. You know, I relapsed actually late last year, in December. And, at that particular time, you could just feel that, that, a rude person. And you know, when you have an experience, you can expect an idea. Then, what kind of a great, at a minute, a great, because, It makes the situation worse for both of you. Yeah. So, what do you usually do? If at all, you're going through something, going through something, and you come to me, like I said before, referrals are the best. Referrals are the best. Yeah. Because currently, in Nairobi County, we have, in every sub-county, there's facilities that offer mental health services. It was never before. And, it's free services. I can't say they're absolutely free, but, I know, Kama Kenyan H, Kenyan International Hospital, on some certain days, I'm not sure, but so, at the age of my youth, there's some, some certain days where, services are offered free. Yeah. But then, I can feel like, what you have here, when you're in a malaria, you're very free, you're free. And, it's great to be free, because, you will go on that particular day, when the services are offered free, but, at the same time, there's some time, when the services are offered free. Yeah. So, when you're at home, you're free. The next time, you're free, you're free. And, there's some, there's some, you're free. So, I feel like, let's just impress, also, to sit again, maybe, to serve Buddhism. And, investment of your health, it's also just as important. Yeah, sure. Okay, thank you very much, so, why not say, from all of us, that you want to speak to someone out there, listening, going through a similar situation, that you went through, and you are quite encouraged, to come around. Yeah. When I say this, last time I said, I'm a DJ, MC, actually, super DJ, super AMC, call me DJ Tuaki. We can, at the stage, I'm a very different person, from the one you get today, I am today. I suffered severe depression, but I'm here today, speaking up, to give some hope to someone, who is maybe going through the same. So, the only thing that you can do, get some person that you can trust, if you can trust someone, who have hotlines, speak to them, get help. Yeah. I thank Sena Nahash, and thank you for sharing, your story, being vulnerable, and encouraging others to speak up. Yeah. That is what we are for. So, make sure you speak up, if you're going through, certain situations, speak up, invest in your health, go to, mental health, a specialist, and get help, because you need it, and you, you are valued here, you still need it here, so make sure you, you know, you do not try anything that's, you know, that is not right. So, we love you. Make sure that you seek help, if you need it. That has been Nahash von Poil, who's a DJ, MC, but also a mental health advocate, telling you to ask about his experience, and more so, on overcoming depression. That has been Marta's health. We still have more for you, Rand Sacoa and Val will be coming on next with entrepreneurship, so stick with us, we take a short break, we'll be right back.