 Welcome to Toffy TV today. I am joined by former Everton captain, a man who played 89 times for the blue scoring 11 goals in all competitions. In my opinion, his stay was far too brief, far too brief, but I am joined by the man, Don Hutchison, what a man. Don, welcome to Toffy TV. How you doing? You okay? Good mate, I'm good. All the better for talking to you today. Got some, going to have a chat getting to. Let's hopefully solve a problem that has been in my head since 2000. Yeah, it's looking good mate. Nice to see them retro Everton shirts behind you as well. It's like the football season is coming back all of a sudden, isn't it? Yeah, I had a great time mate. I had a wonderful time at Everton. I think it's probably where I was probably most settled. I was fittest. I had my head screwed on when I was at Liverpool as a young star. I was daft as a brush and I lived my lifestyle like a 19 year old. But once I got to Everton later on, I felt as though I was comfortable in my own skin and I felt as though playing for the Evertonians was emotional, which is always great. I always say even now when I commentate on Everton games of goodness and it's how the players should play, they should play with emotion because it's probably the only ground in the country that I think is really emotional when you play at home. The rest of brilliant stadiums and cracking atmosphere is what Everton's got something special about it. The move came about. We lost in the play-off final against Crystal Palace for Sheffield United when David Hopkins scored in the last minute of the game and I dislocated my shoulder and got stretched off. So that summer I was in rehab and in that summer Howard obviously left Sheffield United to go back to Everton and then he took, which surprised me, he took Carl Tyler and Mitch Ward who were great lads and good footballers. But I was a little bit envious. So you often hear about tales and stories when managers would tap and players up and you probably still hear the stories now about managers tap and players up. It was the complete opposite with me. I was tapping up Howard every single day and Howard, you took Mitch and you took Carl Tyler, is there any chance? And he's going, are you going to have to buy your time? Like we haven't got loads of money and I'm going, no you can't, you can't give me that one when you took Carl Tyler and Mitch Ward. So my agent Rachel Anderson at the time who was a fantastic agent for me, I said Rachel I went get into Howard, I went you know what to do, take him out for a dinner or two, take him out for a glass of wine, try and smooth talk him a little bit. And that's how the move came around. I was desperate to come to Everton. Honestly I was just sitting there, I was rehabbing all the time and once I got fit I was like Rachel get into Howard for me. Do you think if you wouldn't have done that injury in the playoffs you think you might have got there a bit earlier? Maybe, I couldn't say what was on Howard's mind. I mean I'd like to think so because me and Howard as you know were really really close and super tight and our relationship was just spectacular. So I'd like to think without the injury I would have been and I'm not being big-headed but I'd like to think you know we had the relationship where you might have talked me a lot earlier but maybe it was a case of Howard needed to fill those positions. Maybe Carl Tyler was you know a centre half who had a good left foot, dominant in the air, could play left back, you could play in a three. Mitch was a really good cross of the ball, really underrated. He didn't get too many appearances by Everton but a great player for Chef Hugh because his talent was, he wasn't the most spectacular play in the world Mitch but he was honest as the days long. He had a great attitude, great to have around in the dressing room but actually on the pitch he could play right back, he could play a little bit higher up and his crossing was brilliant. Before you come was there any reservations about coming because you've been at Liverpool or not much or ever? No you know me, the bigger the challenge the more I want to accept it. You know I was telling someone the other day someone went I didn't realise you played for Liverpool and Everton. I went oh that's not the whole story I went listen I was born in Gateshead supported Newcastle but played for Sunland and scored against Newcastle. Born in England played for Scotland, played for Westam, played against Millwall, played loads of London Darby's and obviously Liverpool Everton. So it was one of them when I knew the move was going to happen. I just couldn't wait. I felt as though I loved my time on Merseyside when I was at Liverpool. I lived in the Albert Dot which was great for a single lad. You know good bars around there but great Italian restaurants as well and I love Scousers still do because I try and look at who's got the sort of similar humour and I always liken Jordies to Scousers. The football clubs are big football clubs. Newcastle has not got the history and heritage of both Liverpool and Everton but there's a connection there I think and I think Scousers and Jordies especially I think they get on really well. I mean you come in made your debut against Newcastle, your club for us and then it was a nil nil wasn't it. I mean you played at the game till the end of the season but next week trying to really cement your relationship with the Evertonians and you missed the penalty at Southampton. I did, I did. Do you know penalties? I was never comfortable with penalties. I don't know what it was about them. I remember chatting Adrian Heath and I took penalties at Sheffield and I was alright. I'm no idea what my percentage rate would be but I said to Inchee, I went Inchee, what's happening with pens? I went I've just got like, I don't like them. There's too much sort of pressure because you're expected to score and then Inchee turned around and he went if I asked you to pass you a ball inside the side netting from 12 yards away under no pressure or I was standing there and asked you to make a pass out of the right wing 12 yards away. How many times would you do it? I went 100 times out of 100. He went it's just a pass. It's just a pass into the side netting but of course when you're taking penalties and you've got away fans or home fans and there's pressure on depending on the score line, it's difficult man, it's not easy. No, God no. It's straight to what you say that because you always seem so calm and you great finish here from the field and really calm under pressure with the ball. I always felt when I was the type of player, if you give me too much time, I think I had too many options going from a brain and I didn't like it whereas I was quite instinctive. If I had a volley on the edge of the box and it comes to me, I'd go bang and hit it. But if I've got too much time on the ball and I've got so many options left wing, right wing, little ball here, all of a sudden too many options confuse me. I was always the type of player that and I think all the managers throughout the years have always said to me and every other player is the first pass you see is the right one. And that's something footballers nowadays should live and die by really because we've got great vision and footballers on the pitch are really, really smart and they see a pass and they sort of ignore that because they think oh I'm going to do a harder pass, I'm going to try something a little bit more difficult. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Spot on it, it is strange. The more time you have you confuse yourself but the instinct was definitely there. Obviously, remember you're playing against Blackburn early on and we won 1-0, it was a big game, they were doing well actually, they were at the top and we obviously weren't. Michael Madaw, with those flowing locks scored the winner but I remember you had got Man of the Mat and Howard Kendall was talking about you because at that time, I don't think you were in the Scotland setup where Craig Brand, there was a lot of talk that Craig Brand was watching you but that must have given you some confidence after that game Howard coming out and praising you and saying I'm sure Craig Brand is watching him now. Yeah, especially from Howard because he didn't do a lot of praising Howard, Howard's way as you know, he'll give you a look and he'll give you a wink and that's all you sort of needed and he never really give you a roll-on neither when Howard wanted to really get stuck into you. He'd lay it quite thick emotionally really, he'd say you've let me down today, you've let me down and you've let the fans down today and you'd go that's quite deep that like because we can all take a manager coming up face to face and I'm going to go at you and pull in your game apart. Natural as part of the game but when a manager like Howard says you've let me in the fans down today, that's quite deep and emotional but so on the other side of it when you've done well you didn't need too much from Howard, you didn't need him to put an arm around you which you would but if he'd come out in the press and said he played well today, that'd give you a big lift and especially coming from Howard it was nice to hear because everyone loved Howard. I mean we were right in the midst of that battle with me when you come in and you scored your first goal against Leeds and all of it again was another big result that you were going for your up, we beat them 2-0 and that was that like scoring your first goal especially at the street end as well. Yeah, that was amazing. My memory of it weren't the cleanest I don't think. I think I got a little deflection on the way through but just again you know it's scored at the gladusory end again you see all them thousands of fans behind the goal and it's just I always keep using, I keep going back to the words emotional because I always felt as though that's what Goodison Park was. I played at Newcastle where the atmosphere is quite ferocious and I've played in London Derby's where it's ferocious as well but then you go into the Merseyside Derby's and you play for Liverpool and you play for Everton. There's something different, there's something really different about Everton fans to Liverpool fans. I couldn't tell you what it is, I couldn't put my finger on it but when you're playing at Goodison there's an air of an especially when I end up getting the captain's armband when you sort of fast forward which we'll do later on. It was an enormous sense of pride but yeah just playing the home games at Goodison was special. Yeah, it's really interesting to hear you say that because obviously not many people, not that many have played for both and we'll talk about the differences between the fans so it's really interesting to hear that emotional set clearly, we feel it. So it's for the players to feel it as well. It's massively important. I mean we've got to talk about the tackle at Arsenal. The game was on again last weekend and now you've been having a bit of a future repeat on Twitter on our account about missed time and all of that but when you look at it again, do you kind of go... Oh yeah, it's not pretty. I mean I tell you the build up towards which sent me into the red mist so Howard and you know me I'll never have anything said against Howard. I love them man, I love them to death. But before this game he wanted to play a flat back four and a hold them with field player which is absolutely fine but he played five centre halfs so I can't remember the personnel but he played someone like Dave Unsworth centre half at left back. David Weir, Davey Watson and another centre half at right back. I can't quite remember the personnel and then Slavin Billich is a hold them with field player who's a centre half so we went into the game quite negative because my attitude was on our day we can beat Arsenal. I know they were brilliant but on our day we can beat them. If we go five centre halfs against Overmars, Petit, Vieira, Bergham and all the brilliant names they add. If we go one down, the chances are of us scoring two are zilch. If we go two down we ain't scoring three and four, it's just not happening, not a hybrid. So I was like a bit peeved when we were sort of setting up and we were working on it, it was defensive but it was fine, it was Howard's choice, we went into the game and then what happened was Slavin scored an own goal after five minutes. So my ear had come off because I thought like five centre halfs were one nil down and one of the centre halfs had scored an own goal. How are we going to get back into this game? So we obviously didn't and they were running rings around me and I was in midfield and I'm just thinking I am absolutely chasing shadows here and the red mist was just coming down and down and down and it was just getting there where I thought someone's going to get it. And then I've done a really bad tackle on Vieira and the referee let it go. He let the bad tackle go on Vieira so I thought it made me worse because I thought I'm just going to start top on everyone because my head's gone. And then I can't remember the timing of it. Manu Petit got one, got the ball and it was a 50-50 and I went like I mean you've seen the tackle, it's ridiculous. It's a 10-match ban these days and the worst part of it was is when you break a leg or you hear someone breaking their leg you hear like that snap of a bone and I heard the snap of a bone and then I thought that's not me because there's no pain and I thought it's going to be Manu who broke his leg. This is just before France 98 and then what I realised was that it was his shin pad had snapped in half so the shin pad had made the noise of like a broken bone and I was like oh. And then Manu sort of walked off and he chucked his shin pad and he just walked straight down a tunnel because they were winning 3 or 4 at the time and he made awesome Venomeca change but that's the sort of backstory of it where I was fuming before the game. Fumon go to it, one nill down, no one we got no chance, getting rings, getting torn apart and I just thought right me it's gone. I was how I never got sent off I never know. I've got to say if you were cocom and taking now I'm sure you'd be saying no. Got no choice, got no choice he's got to go. He's had to go on 10 match band, disgraceful tackle everything. The worst thing was it was on match of the day the other week and Martin Keon was like saying he was the worst in the whole Premier League. He used to punch you in the face at corners. Keon, I mean I'd see him playing for us. I'll tell you a very quick story about how bad Martin Keon was obviously you know him as an Evertonian but there was a game at Goodison Park. And it was Arsenal versus us obviously. Thomas Myra our goalkeeper was colour blind. I don't know if you know this but Thomas Myra was colour blind. No. So he's in golfers at the time so no wonder in the bottom three that goalkeeper was colour blind. So our routine was Thomas on goal kicks used to hit like a big diagonal up to me and I'd win the first flick on and then we'd sort of play from there. Well he was having won Thomas that he couldn't get no one near me so no balls near me so I said to him after I won Tom was there any chance you can just drill one in my area and win the first one we can get up the pitch and play from there. He went oh it's you and I'm colour blind. I can't see. I can't see that. So my head was gone again. So Arsenal get a corner and I stay up front and Martin Keon stays at the back by marking me from a corner. So the corner comes in and we win a goal kick and then the goal kick I set the Thomas right. Make sure you hit me from this goal get when I win the first header. So when that corner came in Martin Keon just punched me in the ribs off of all like you smacked me in the ribs and proper done me so I didn't expect it. So I sort of lent over and bent over trying to catch my breath and then we've got the goal kick. Thomas has cleared the goal kick up towards me and I've elbowed Martin Keon in the face. Uriah Rennie was the referee and give me a straight red. That was from Martin Keon smacking me in the ribs. So when I was watching him on Match of the Day saying that was a disgraceful tackle I was like coming from him. He's got no right. You're there for him. Shearer is the way. Shearer makes you laugh when he goes on the bar. Righty. Unbelievable. But you know what though in that era we all had it in our locker everyone because if you didn't look after yourself and stand up for yourself and go high in a tackle there was plenty of midfield players like Paul Ince and Dennis Wise and there was loads of the era. You know young Gerard did all top you. So you have yet Keen has loads of them. 50 of them in the Premier League at the time and you had to go higher than when you were going for that 50-50 you knew Roy Keen or anyone was going to come in high and late. So you actually had the mindset of I'm going higher and you weren't trying to hurt anyone you were just trying to protect yourself. What was the build-up like? I suppose it got a fairly the other weekend obviously scored the goal in the game and he was saying it. You know I can't really remember the week but he remembers you went and stayed in a hotel which is not something you did before home games at that time and he said you went over to Parkgate was it in the Whittle and he said it was then he started to feel like this isn't normal it's a bigger game. What's your memories of it? Well my memories stem from the night before when I was in the hotel and obviously really nervous and couldn't sleep that night because obviously adrenaline is going through you because of the size of the game and what really mattered to the Evitonians. And then not much sleep and then Howard done something which was genius really and in the morning I don't know if Garrett told you this in the morning he took us all for a stroll or walk which all managers do and he walked us to this sort of like little cafe and we've gone in this cafe and in the cafe there was a woman there and she served everyone scones and clotted cream and a cup of tea. So we all had a scone with some clotted cream and some jam and a cup of tea and it was just it was Howard's way of just taking your mind off the pressures of the game for 15 minutes 20 minutes and it was all like oh this is quite nice like bit of scone clotted cream but a jam bit of tea and then you were chatting chatting chatting so your mind was off the game only for a short period of time and then the really big thing was when you were on the coach and I loved being on the coach with players at every single club you know travelling to away games but this was like this was like an away game but it was at home because we never done the the coach is obviously for the home games and then we come down the main street and if I said to you and obviously you know there must have been 20, 30,000 fans you know on the main street as the bus was driving in banging on the bus you know slapping the bus and punching the bus a pure excitement and joy. The adrenaline was like ridiculous it was like something you'll never get back it was like the highest of the high and you're just looking at the window looking at again I use all the emotion of the fans and the young kids and the women and the men and how much it mattered to them. You know a lot of them weren't really crying but you could see the desperation in their face on how much the game mattered and then getting off the bus and then getting into the dressing rooms was was quite a relief actually because it was hard watching the emotion on the Everton fans. It was on the bus coming in towards Goodison because you could see it and you could feel it that the electricity in the air was something special and tense and then you get into the dressing room and then you feel sort of safe because you're in your own environment and then you know where you are you know your number you see big dunk and you can see Gareth and the manager's there and Adrian Eiff and his coaching staff and all the bottles of water and look as they do you sort of quite comfortable and you surround and you can relax a little bit and obviously the game happens and it's just mental. I mean that is really a lot to take in isn't it because obviously when you're experiencing that for like a cup final or whatever there's a different type of excitement isn't it it's come on we can do that whereas the relegation you know that word just sends you down our spines but the thought of it and being a player just looking and you've only been at the club for a few weeks. It's because you're not sure because a relegation last day of the season you're just not sure what to do because all your instincts and everything you've been taught about playing football is to go forward and win a game but in this game you're thinking well there's another game going down at Stavridt Bridge and they'll probably beat Bolton but you can't guarantee it so we need to better their results but we don't know what comment you're going to be like we're not sure what their attitude is going to be like so it's that real dilemma of like what on earth is the right thing to do. When you step away from it you go well we should have just attacked them and beat them 4-0 but when you're in it I didn't want to be the player and that's the 11 of us and that happens to everyone where if I try something and it doesn't come off and my opposite number scores my goodness like the pressure's on and then you time that by every single player it's like it's a nightmare. I mean my garage scores a cracking goal and then again it's opposed it's it is that then isn't it it's like well you know a new sub would say well everything just go on them you know you've got them on the rack put three or four past them but you're in that the pressure and don't lose what we've got as the other game going all of that it must be so difficult to play in that. Yeah exactly and then you and then you start which it gives me goosebumps I'm thinking of it now where you start hearing the the Abitonians singing because they realized. I think Jody Morris had scored for Chelsea at the time and then you start feeling a little bit more relaxed more or less taken care of well let's not lose this game because we can still go down and then obviously fast forward at beyond Dublin score on the header and then you like and then I think the whole place went silent because you think what does that mean because there's players on the pitch you're not sure what's happening. Yeah points wise your panic stations and then Chelsea went and scored a couple of more couple more but I still didn't really matter to us because I've come to score one more and beat us we go down. So it's just like again it was it was a bit of a stalemate and I think every time we got the ball it was it's so bizarre is really because you can watch the game back and you can watch yourself and you think I'm having a mare here because every time I got it. All I'd done was smack it 60 yards away in an Garraf Farrill got it and he smacked it 60 yards away and he says you got no composure you don't want to pick a pass and pick another one case someone robs you or you give the ball. So you end up just launching it it's like it's like Wimbledon footy you're just trying to think what's the most basic thing I can do right get that ball as far away from our goal as possible and then you like and then you just live on a knife edge and you just because anything can happen. Yeah I mean that's a natural instinct isn't it if it's at the other end I mean the least danger is part of a football pitch is their corner flag isn't it. So you know you're keeping it away I mean that the day on Dublin that comes two minutes after Nick Barmby's missed the penalty by the way Barmby slots that penalty. Barm slots that penalty it's game over isn't it but done you've got the last five minutes. I forgot about Barmys missing the pen totally forgot about that we'd have been cruising then. Yeah exactly the last few literally would have had the slippers on the last five minutes instead of hitting corner flags but I mean the relief at the end I mean that must have been incredible to know it's you don't want to celebrate staying up but you've just come in and the club is in trouble so for you personally it must have been an early indication into how much it matters to us as fans. Yeah I still see I still see it every now and again when you when you look at the Premier League years or you see classic games and I'll never forget the fans running on the pitch and I think it was about half a dozen fans fellas I think who sort of ran on the pitch centre circle gone in their knees and they were just like just like that in their knees and it was like and basically saying like thank God but let's never ever be in this position again. And then obviously the relief as we come through the tunnel we're like celebrating like we won the league and then you get back in the dressing room then you think of actually what's happened and you think Christ that was a scare. And then I can remember looking across to me right on side and seeing Adrian Heath and the coaching staff sort of celebrating but not overboard just the relief of it and not and something didn't feel right so I walked over to Adrian and I went where's Howard and he went you'll be in the boot room. So as you know at the home dressing room the boot room is the door on the left hand side so I said I'm just going to see the gaffer then so I knocked on the door on the boot room door and there was no answer. So I sort of knocked on it again and I just opened it only by like an inch or two and it was pitch black so I sort of knocked for the third time I went gaffer and I opened the door and the little bit of light coming from the sort of the tunnel area. Sean just quite close to Howard so I could obviously see what he was doing and he was crying and Howard was in his chair in the corner all the boots behind him and he was just sobbing crying and he was in absolutely floods of tears because he didn't want to be the man that took Everton down and that would have been a nightmare for him. And I walked over and he sort of stood up and I think I've said it on different programmes that if I could have a minute back in my life a football moment just one more minute of my life it would be that one minute with Howard. Where the two of us just stood there embracing each other and he was just crying on my shoulder and I was like because I loved him anyway and it was like it means a lot to me but at times I'd buy a million for Howard. I mean in my gaffer was like crying in my shoulder and we had that minute just no one come in, no one spoke to us and then he sort of got himself together and I knew he was okay and I walked back in the dressing room and then he sort of followed me in after about four or five minutes but it was that minute was brilliant. I mean the emotion of it is whatever happened to fella that played for us, managed us, won the league, gave us our most successful ever manager and it had come back at the last minute to try to do it again. And then when Walter come in he just done a normal training session on I think the first couple of days and after about three or four days or maybe a week he got the whole team in on the whole squad and he went training you've been doing for this week. He went I let it go, he went it was okay, he went ain't good enough and we went what do you mean it's not good enough he went I want you to kick lumps out of each other every single day in training because that's how you play. I don't want anyone tipp me tapping around each other pulling out of tackles. I want you to smash each other every single day. Well we had a dressing room at the time which was tailor made for that. You know we had loads of guys like Onnesworth and Big Donk and Dave Watson and myself and many many others that love putting their foot in and then once that team ethic then come together with a bit of bonding. Just then every now and again it spilled over. I've seen so many fights and training. I've seen back of Yoko standing up to everyone. Micka on the dark I couldn't believe what was going on. Big Donk as you know is ferocious as they come and you go through him and he's got you by the scruff of the neck. But it was brilliant because it was sort of like it was teaching us this is what we're going to do in training and we're going to kick the lumps out of each other. By the way that's what we're going to do to come in Sheffield United and Arsenal in Man United next week. So it was completely different. Obviously that's somebody brought in Olivier Decor and John Collins so you've just come in and then the next minute we've spent which was a sizeable amount of money for Everton at that time as well to bring those two in and obviously Mataratty coming as well. He was mad money let's be honest. But how do you feel then that you've just come to a club? The manager's gone. The new manager comes in and then he's signing. John Collins is quite a high profile sign and Olivier Decor was less so but was obviously a very good player. So again that's another challenge for you isn't it? Yeah he brought me in actually when Ollie and John Collins had been signed Walter and I sat with Archie Knox and Walter and he sat down and he went you okay? I went yeah yeah I could feel good. Pre-season went well. Always going well at the time and he went just to let you know you can phone your agent if you like. He said it quite nicely and he said you can phone your agent if you like and you can try and get a move. And I went what do you mean? And he went well you're not really going to play. And I went why? And he went well I've signed John Collins from Monaco and Ollie's come in who was brilliant Ollie with what a character and what a player. And he was ferocious as well. And he went you're not going to start ahead of them two. And I went gaffa I went with all due respect. I went if you had a brought in world class players and you're telling me I'm not going to play. I would still fight for my place but I might accept it. I said I'm not accepting I'm not going to play over Olivier Decourt and John Collins. I went in my mind I'm either better or I'm equal or on my day I'll give them a good run for my money. I'm not I'm not a big headed player but I'm standing up for myself here. And Walter loved that. He loved that he loved that. And I can remember a week before my timings are always a little bit sketchy. I was looking all 98 99 99 2000. So they're all a little bit sketchy. The sort of preseason dates. Brachan member a week before the season starts. Walter Smith puts an 11 v 11 on and it was the first team that we're going to start the very first game of the season against the reserves and the youth team. So the reserves on the youth team have always got something to prove. So you never ever let John Collins have a minute on the ball. So I nailed him in the first five minutes at Goodison Park. And then he sort of got it. He's quite he was quite elegant John. He was quite easy on the iron. He was a pass. I was never really his game. And then about 10 minutes later 50 50 happened between me and Olly. And I've snapped Olly in training at Goodison Park a week before the season starts. And he loved it. Olly like jumped up and went. All right. And then another 50 50 happened between me and Olly and he went straight through me again. So me and him were having this ding dong snap in each other with John Collins there and it was all going off. And I can't remember the timings but in the end. At the end of the playing John Collins live out the court and myself. So I sort of forced my way back into the team just by not lying down. And he loved that. He loved someone with a bit of sort of balls behind him. The first game season Collins missed the penalty and we drew with Phil and Ilnill and then you didn't play till I was looking round the thing. It was like the fourth game of the season you started. And we went to Forreston one two and Ilnill big dunk scored two. And then you had a good. You were in then for the next nine. You scored the winner at Middlesbray in the reacuff for us. Come on as a son. You scored the goal there. Dunk scored our first home goal in October against United in October. We'd scored goals away and at Goodison we couldn't score. It was absolutely weak. It was mental wasn't it at home. We couldn't score. Yeah it was weird but the first win at Goodison was we beat Newcastle, Michael Ball scored a penalty. But that dunk was sold the next day. What was that like? Obviously Dunk was like the talisman at the time wasn't he for that team. Was that a shock to you as a player that we'd sold our best asset basically? Yeah massive. Players don't really tend to look at what the board's doing. Players don't do that when you're in a dressing room. You're looking around your mates and you're thinking you're looking around anything. Yeah we've got some good players here. We've got some good characters. Youngsters coming through. All the dynamics in the banter every day is really good. There's no clicks. Dunk was always as you know a leader. He led by the front. He was aggressive. He didn't mind being aggressive with his voice as well which was absolutely fine. And then when he went it was like a massive hole. But it was more of a shock to think like where we're going. Like we're bringing in the core and we're bringing in John Collins and Mataratty and we're bringing in Kevin Campbell and all these good players. But then sort of our leader our skipper like Everton's number nine's gone. Like what does that mean? Are we going to be worse? Are we going to be better? Are we going to change the way we play because Dunk was a great outlet and he was great in the air? So it was all a little bit confusing at the time. We didn't really know what was happening in terms of having a plan. Yeah, yeah. As fans it was bizarre. I mean we won the next game at Charlton. I think Adam Atty's gone. We won't see Wombo. And Dunk's gone to see for Newcastle on his debut. So that was a mad feeling. But we were kind of a little bit lost at that time. And Walter Smith went and got Kevin Campbell from Techie. And I remember at the time when Kev come in it was a bit of an odd one. But it was like he's a big lad. He's been strong at Arsenal and Forrest. And it was like, yeah he's probably, you know, we'll be able to knock it round. Jeff Franny Jeffers was just, you know, getting in. And he didn't, he was a young lad, wasn't he? And it was like, Campbell will take all the weight and maybe, you know, we'll be able to get something off it. But no one could have predicted the effect they had. Especially with you. You didn't just seem to hit it off straight away. Incredible, incredible. I mean it didn't really work on it neither. And it was just brilliant to play behind Kev. And obviously Franny was a brilliant young player. So so much potential. And a young Franny coming through into the Everton side reminded me of Russia's runs at Liverpool, where Russia is quite quick. But he's diagonal runs 10-15 yards in between centre halfs and fullbacks. I was watching Franny like every single day in training and in games. And all I could see was like a young Russia in Franny. Because he was electric Franny over 10-15 yards and a good calm finisher. And then me and Kev just hit it off unbelievably well. We're on the same wavelength. We like the same music. We sort of chatted together. We bonded together and it was easy. Nothing was ever forced. But then just something happened on the pitch between me and Kev where it was just, I just knew where he was going to run. And sometimes it takes time. Sometimes you have to work on it and say, Kev, on a training ground. If I've got the ball here, where are you going to go on a match day so I can try and have a pitch up? None of that with Kev. Not one single thing with Kev. It was just like, I know where he's going to be. He always likes to, he doesn't really like to face the play. He'll do it. But if I can slide him down the sides, that's where he used to be. So when I got the ball in centre mid and I used to have that pitcher in front of me. And I've seen the two centre halfs. I've seen Franny Jeffers making a sort of decoy run. I knew then Kev didn't want the ball to feed. He wanted it. Two yards either side of him to put him through on the right side as I was looking or left side as I was looking. And the amount of sort of balls I sort of slid through was just easy. It was all his running, but it was just something that you couldn't bottle up really. You couldn't magic it up. No, it was amazing for him. He scored his first two goals against Coventry at home. He played at Amphil, he lost and then you didn't play that when you come back in. You got two goals against Coventry. We won two and they were 18 that day so it was a big result. When you come back into the team, you've missed six or seven games. You come back into the team and you open Newcastle funnily enough. We beat them three one up there and Kev scored another two and then obviously you were back in the team and then Charlton four one a week later and Campbell gets two and you scored in that as well. And then we just, we ended up, crew. I mean, just thinking about YouTube, apart from the Leeds game, it's a talk about the minute that West Ham game at home, the last home game of the season and we won six-nil. YouTube, the link up play in that was just unbelievable and we won the game six-nil and it was again another flash because Harry Redknapp's team had some good players in it. Ferdinand played and everything that day, Lampard. And we went out and smashed them six-nil and it was like, that's what this team is capable of. There's just no consistency with it. It always makes me laugh that game because that was another one where the game was obviously very easy but a lot of my mates like John Moncour who had been to West Ham in the 90s, they were in that dressing room in that team and they told me after the game when we were in the players bar they went, you should have seen Harry Redknapp at halftime. I went, why? What happened? He went, he'd give everyone the biggest bollocken they've ever had in their life and he went, do you know who got the most stick? And I've gone, go on. He went, you. And I've gone, hey, I went, how's that happen? So Harry's gone in halftime and he's battered everyone. He went, that Donut you said he's running the show out there. He went, I sold him and he used a bit of language. He went, I binned him off years ago and he went, look what he's doing to you. He's embarrassing you. He's making you look at disgrace. So John Moncour said he actually had a really good, he had a real pop at me because he'd sold me and I was obviously running the show and we were beating them 6-0 and we battered them. Like when you said like young Rio Ferdinand was playing a good young squad and again that game was like, it was just, it was everyone but again it was like Kevin Campbell. It was just sensational and it felt as though in the game and again they only come across once in a blue moon but it felt as though like the Borough game. Chances were coming like every two minutes. Normally you can watch a game and you can go, not seeing a chance in 10 minutes, not having a shot on target in 15. We felt as though we were creating chances every couple of minutes. Yeah, we could have been 10. We absolutely destroyed them that day and Walter Smith saying you might want to ask your agent you need a club. You played 41 games that season for us and scored four goals. So that shows the character of you that other players might have gone, yeah alright, I'll go somewhere else. In the next game we went to Ramfield on 1-1-0 and what's mad on is it's the last time you've won at Ramfield and you've played in it. I know, I know, it's incredible. But what a night that was because it was a brilliant performance. You know my overriding thing about that, I was disappointed. I was working at Everton at the time and I was in the next day in the ticker office and I was talking obviously loads of blues coming to the window and I'm like done them last night and all that. And I was like you know what I'm a little bit disappointed and they were like why and I was like because that was our chance to beat them three or four nil cos we destroyed them. They ended up with starting in gold didn't they and we could have got two or three near the end but I mean what was it like to play in that cos it was a fantastic win. It's brilliant because as I said before I always like to be in the lion's den and I always like the bigger games and you know when you go and play in a Merseyside, Derby at Anfield and you're playing forever and it's like the noise is just ridiculous and the atmosphere is charged. I remember snapping Jeremy Redd and up early who was a good pal of mine so I thought well he's going to get it so he got it on and then I've done a really bad tackle actually on Deepmar Hamann. It was in the time in that era where the sort of law which I'm glad it's been changed where if you've got a piece of the ball at the time and if you go through the man it was actually quite legal. So I actually thought well that's a ridiculous rule but I like it because I can get the top end of the ball and take a little bit of the ankle in the shin of the player. I've done one on Deepmar Hamann and I went straight over the top of the ball and took the ball but followed through my studs and I rocked his ankle and he was gone for like 10-15 minutes. He was playing but he was like he was obviously injured so I thought well that is a player. It sounds quite brutal but at the same time when I thought well I've done Reddnap and I've done Hamann right we're going to be alright here and as long as Kevin Campbell does someone else and as long as everyone follows suit and we're on it. We batted them like you said. We passed it well, we created chances, scored a good goal at the top end and as you said the way the game was going in the second half it was leading not to Liverpool get back in the game. We felt as though we didn't get two or three. It was actually the last 20 minutes was quite easy. Yeah definitely I mean obviously Fran, he gets sent off him and send the best of El Slap on each other given it all. It could have ended two or three and that was what I was saying a little bit of tinge of disappointment that that was the moment where we could have really come away with a three and ill and been able to load it but then we haven't won since. Yeah but you know it was nice though, it was nice because Walt on the next morning when we come in he would normally come in for a warm down and do sort of half an hour warm down and we come in to Bellefield and Howard sorry Walter said everyone in their track suits he went trainers on track suits on everyone on the team coach in 15 minutes time. In Bellefield we were like team cut that where we're going that would normally do a warm down so he got everyone but everyone's obviously buttoning still got loads of adrenaline from the from the night before and what he done was was very very clever. It's he got us on the team coach and the team coach drove us into the middle of Liverpool city centre and he had he had like an old school old fashioned cafe and he booked the cafe out and what we done was all the Everton players went into a cafe and had a fry up and all the Liverpool fans had to watch us walk and buy and all the all us are sitting having a fry up. Just rubbing it on the red off spaces so Walter that was loving it. You're giving the captaincy a year after being told do you want to find another club? This is what I mean about Walter because Walter was a tester and I was only finding this out at the time so he obviously tested me with if you can leave the club you're not going to play and I sort of rebuffed that and passed that test. And then I can remember we played. We played a game. I can't remember where it was home away and he come in afterwards Walter and he battered everyone and my memory of it and again it is a little bit sketchy and the game was a home game. And we drew nill nill I think in a home game at Goodison and Walter took me off of that 20 minutes to go and the crowd sort of like had a mermine had a little booty decision because I must must have been doing okay and he took me off. Ond rwy'n cael ei fyddwch yn y fath. Fy fyddwch yn ddwyg gwych. A wedi'w gwych wedi i lawr i'ch gydag i'w tîm a gwymoedd ei wneud i'w ddweud i wirthio'r gwmpan. A'r ddweud i gydag i chi ddechrau i chi ddefnyddoall gwasanaethau o'r cynghawdd. A byddwch chi'n bod i ddweud i chael nhw i'r amser am y gwneudio i chi o sefydlu. Ac oeddwn i'n amser i gydag i chi'n gworksid yn bryd ddweud ar y lleif. Ac oeddwn i chi ddweud i chi ddweud. Mae'n ymwneud nesaf a'n ei gallwn... Felly mae'r amser wedi ei ddim... ...gydd yn gweithio i fynd. Efallai, rwy'n unwch ar hollach nhw, mae'n fawr i'n hoffradd. I wnaeth i'r amhaith a'n rhan o'n gweld i'u newydd i'u newydd i'u newydd i'u newydd. I wnaeth i'n rhan o'n gweld i'u newydd i'u newydd i'u newydd i'u newydd i'u newydd i'u newydd i'u newydd. I wnaeth i wneud i fenne. Ac yn y gyn nhw mae'n yn yr ancardd. yn ddaeth i chi eisiau gweld ymlaen, mae'n dwy'n ddaeth, i'w ddwy fydd yn ddwy'n ddim, mae'n ddaeth i chi'n ddwy ar ddyddol yn eu cyfnod dweud, felly mae'n ddaeth yn ymlaen yn ddwy ar y cyfnod, mae'n ddaeth yn ddwy'n ddwy, mae'n ddwy ar y llwy, mae'n ddwy wedi'n dddwy ar y cyflos gael yng Nghymraethol yn y Llywodraeth a mae'n ddwy'n ddwy'n ddwy'n gyfrannu, mae'n ddwy'n gyfrannu, dwi's iddyn nhw, dwi'n cael wahanol i ddisgwminio'r twyd yn eich pandol yn y trofyn! Dwi'n cael, dwi'n cael, dwi'n cael, dwi'n cael, dwi'n cael, dwi'n cael, dwi'n cael, dwi'n cael, dwi'n cael, dwi'n cael, dwi'n caeléndu'r trofyn! O'i ddim, yna yw'r cyforhwyntau a'n gyflym ar y trofyn. Yw'n cael i'n ddisgwminio'r trofyn o'r y trofyn o'r byddai sef, ac yn cael eich ddefnyddio'r trofyn. It said to me, he said Are you ok Eldge?, I have gone No! I went What was that about? And he went Would you call Dave Watson? Hard man? I have gone Yeah And he went Dave Unsworth? I have gone And he rattled off a few of the names I have gone And he went Where were they when I had you up against the wall? Where were they protecting you When I had you up against the wall? When you will be club captain tomorrow morning And I was like WHAT is going on? Because I have gone Mae'n gweithio eich gweithio'n holleg yn gallu gyda Chyb Caddon yn ystod. A fe wnaethau, yw'r corff hon yn Walters, yn cynhyrch yng nghyrch yn yôl yn y gwrdd. Mae'n ddigonio'n ddweud, pan mae'n gweithio a'n gweithio er oedd yng nghymru, ac mae'n ddigonio'n gweithio er oedd yn gweithio. Ond ddweud ychydig i chi'n gweithio'n gweithio a'r ddweud, ac mae e'n ddweud eich gweithio'r ddweud, a dyna'n gyfnwys i'n bwysig. Ddiw i'r sachr effaith sy'n lam. Ychydig, dwi'n dod. Can you imagine me? I've got in my car driving from mine to... I lived in St Ellen's at the time. I was buzzing! And it's interesting because I always go back to when Ross Barkley was at Everton, just going off piece slightly and he had a terrific... Mae roste a sgwp yn ddull, maen nhw'n mynd gorfodol ar gyfer a'i athdi oes ei acadamies quech yn dod o'r cyflwyno gael gweithreboi am gael gweithreboi, yn cyddw i gael gyfrydain ar gyfer y Croy Tern, o ddod o'r meal, o arweinydd y papeth. Rwy'r rhan o'r ddweud, o'r rhan o'r cyflwyr ym mwyn yrhaf yn ynchydig gan dda a'r gweithreboi yn gwyllai, mae'n cael bod eu cyfnodes yn gyfle. you know, Javi was having like a 99% past completion at Barcelona and then the English players were doing it and having a high percentage and I was always and I told this to Harry Wreddnop when I was at West Down I said to Walter and I said to all my managers, look, I couldn't give a monkey about my past completion I went, I'm not interested having 100% said if you want me to play 100% past completion I'll pass it 5 yards to me left and 5 yards to me right and all the dummies will go ease at a good game my knowledge of the game was I don't mind giving the ball away 25 times I'n gwybod i'r cynghorwch am y cyfrant a wnaeth i gael, a mae'n wneud i'w ymell i gweithio, a y cyfrant yn eich gweithio. Felly, rydw i'n gweithio, Ros yn ddiweddar i'r clywed. Fe fyddai i chi'n gwneud i'ch gwneud i'r lle i'r lle i'r lle, mae rai gydweithio i'r lle i'r lle i'r lle i'r lle i'r lle i'r lle i'r lle i'r lle i'r lle i'r le i'r leidio. it's because of the relationship we had it quite easy to play with. Maybe Ross didn't have to play us out front where he was confident or he was a young boy learning his trade. For whatever reason it was my relationship with Kev was very easy. Ross had Llych Harkiv, so if you did give him the first time balls Ron would've scored. That's what you need to do and again as supporters you're watching players he's over-complicating this game he's gone away through and they're at the pace yma i'r rhaid yn ei ddweud beth o'r rhaid yn ymddangos ar gyfer y llunio i'r adeiladol. Ynno, nid oedd eu bod yn diolch i'ch gael eu gaelio, ble mae'r pandemig yn ystod. Byddai'n gweithio, erbyn i'r iawn, yn y trwy'n falch, mae'n gweithio'n adeiladol. Yna, yna allu i'n gwneud. Yn y llunio'n gwneud, ac hefyd yn ei pryd, ac mae'r adeiladol yn ddifillodol. Mae'n gwneud ei gaelio. Mae'n gweithio'n adeiladol, dwi'n adeiladol. For him, hopefully the penny is dropped.. Well I'll tell you exactly what happened. So we'll go back to pre-season and Walter Smith and Archie Knox took us to a place called El Cioco in Pisa in Italy. The most beautiful training camp you've ever seen in your life. And all the top teams there. I've been there with Sun S with Liverpool years earlier when I was a kid. And then you go through the hotel, and there's the great AC Milan size and the event size and inter size. felly mae'r tyfnod bwysig yn y blwyddyn hefyd, a'r ydw i'r ysgol yma'r gwrdd felly i'r gwahanol ac ydw i'r ystod y cyfnod yma, y gwahanol, y swym ar y pwyl. A fyddwch yn rhan o'r bus i'r gwrdd, ac mae'r gwrdd yn rhan o'r gwrdd yn rhan, ac mae'r gwrdd yn llwyddiad yma, yn y gwrdd dechrau, felly mae'r preffesion yn ychwanol o el Choco, ac mae'r bwg i'r gwahanol ar oedl, cref un i. Felly fouradwch ondCKo, yn meddwl o'r claust tref ar blyni fy sans rydym yn beth chi. Byddwch i heref wno. Felly mae'n mynd iddy위apt mae��터 gennych yard o'r fwrdd acterbydd yn Moir pell. Yn Ie Prif Mw度 Gys weld. ac ddim dwi ddigonio fy areas Ie, i'n Ie Nike Saers, a wedi lleio mynd i beth o'r w자�id. A felly mae wedi plantio calo wedi gweld o'r w müdd. A dod y lot o bullaweth hŷ wedi'u pwgig i y newydd faint un mor oherwydd yr un beth sy'n iawn. I will sort it, I will sort it, I will sort it. Anyway, one day in El Choco, we were sitting having a meal in the afternoon about one o'clock in the afternoon and Walter sort of calls me over so I go over to see him and he sat there with Archie and he went when we trained this afternoon he went make sure you eat well tonight with the squad and he went I want you to come over he went I'll be here with Archie just outside the sort of the eating room, the restaurant that was a little sort of balcony and he went bring me an Archie a bottle of red wine after your meal tonight so I go back we train in the afternoon and we have a shower I'm lying in the bed, Mitch Ward was a room partner at the time we're chatting, chatting, chatting and then we're going to have a meal and I'm excited but I don't know what he wants but I know it's not going to be normal footy chat so I was thinking it was contract but I couldn't be sure he might have just wanted to pick my brains about starting 11 or whoever so anyway I take a bottle of red wine I take three glasses, I take one for myself Archie, one for Walter he pours them and I'll never forget it and he says to me he said your new contract he went how much do you want and I went I'm not greedy I don't know what the big boys are on I'm not too fussed about what the big lads are on I said all the lads are on huge wages I went but you know I'm one of the lowest paid players here and then he said to me because he rattled off all the lads as wages and then he said to me I'll never forget it I should be happy with what Nick Balm is earning so I went what's he earning so he told me and I went absolutely so it was nowhere near it was nowhere near the 25s and the 30s were all the big boys were earning Balm was on about sort of 14-15 and I was on 5 at the time and I went 100% so I drank a bit of red wine I shook his hand and then we fast forward where I'm trying to get my agent involved with Michael Dumford he's the chief executive time so we fast forward to that period of the season and he'd correct me if I'm wrong but my memory of it was there was a Thursday two days before a West Ham game away from home and the meetings set up and I'm in the meetings sat here my agent Rachel Anderson sat there Walter Smith's in front of me and Michael Dunford's there so we know Nick Balm's wages I've shook hands I've told Rachel I went listen if you can get any more great I said I'm not bothered I've shook Walter's hand I went we're talking Nick Balm's wages 16 a week and when I'm happy four year contract done just get it signed so as the negotiating the contract Michael Dunford doesn't go any higher than eight so he's on eight and then I'm thinking right here we go so Rachel's going to ask for 30 they're going to say no they're going to come to 16 job done typical sort of bartering because me and Walter have had the conversation we know the wages so Dunford then says we are not going to go any higher than what we've just said eight grand a week and I'm on five or six at the time so I'm thinking what so I'm looking at Walter but I don't want to say anything in front of Dunford because I sort of respected Walter so anyway the next morning of the game I go to see Walter in his office upstairs at Bellefield and this is a Friday by the way I've got my track suit on and the team coach is leaving after training to go to West Ham so I go up to see the gaffer and I said I didn't want to stitch you up in front of Michael Dunford yesterday I said what happened there and he went what do you mean I said well me and you agreed in El Choco ages ago bomb his wages and he went I never agreed that with you and I went well you did I said and I looked at Archie and Archie just put his dad down and he had his glasses on and he was doing his notes so I knew Archie was at the conversation and he said I took your bottle of red wine on the balcony I said we had a glass of red wine you told me how much all the big boys were earning and I said I'm not bothered we said Barmby and then he went to me and you called me a liar and I've gone so now I'm in a position where I'm back to the game where I've got the on band right to test so now I'm thinking what do you say here so he's gone to me so I've buckled and I've gone yeah I said because we know and he's gone throw it again he's gone throw it again he's gone get your gear he went you know the script he went get your gear get in your car he went you ain't travelling to West Dam he went get so you can correct me if I'm wrong from pretty sure the lads went to West Dam a day later beat them 4-0 and Nick Barmby scored a hat-trick yeah he did yeah right so there's me out of the side so I've gone again now I've gone again right so I'm out of the side so I've come in on Monday morning to see him right and I've went to see Walter and we've had the same conversation he's gone listen you've got two options when you can train at Bellfield at one o'clock in the afternoon when all the first timers have gone or you can train at 10 30 normal time where the kids train don't know where the kids train at the time so I'll train at one o'clock on my own every afternoon so in that seven game period I've trained on my own at one or two o'clock every single day and I've trained like a demon behind the scenes I was on the treadmill I was lifting weights I was doing running couldn't do any football cos I was on my own and then we play Leicester away if you fast forward them sort of seven games and Everton had loads of injuries at the time and he called me back into the squad and I scored I think we drew 1-1 you scored yeah yeah in the yellow shirt and then that was me back into the side but I had to spend five six weeks training on my own one o'clock in the afternoon and it was like and it was like how can I make that I can't make that up what happened to El Choco I can't make Nick Bambu's wages up I can't tell you what Kevin Campbell and all the big boys were on I said because you've told me once you've told me and we've shook hands on Nick's wages I went I can't be making this up I know you were made out in the press to be asking for mad money and I foolishly done an interview with the echo I can't remember the young reporter's name at the time if you said his name I'd remember it Works for Sky does a bit of reporting for them and I was chatting to him he was like a sort of he was like a mate but I was really naive at the time I was really naive and I was chatting to him and even though we were doing an interview a little bit like me and you are now I was like really open I was really emotional and I was just talking and I used the word disgraceful and I don't know why I used that word but no idea why I used that word and then the headline he used in the echo was disgraceful and it was almost like I said the wages they offered me were disgraceful so now the Everett fans are thinking I'm greedy but it wasn't it wasn't that way at all I obviously used the word because he quoted me but I don't know why it was just an emotional interview that I was just speaking honestly but I didn't mean the money was disgraceful the club captain or the captain of the team on one of the least paid is nonsense anyway and given the value to the team that you were at the time anyway is better ridiculous I think reading between the lines what happened was when me and Walter agreed Nick Bombie's wages he then went to the chairman and then the chairman has obviously gone like we can't pay this they weren't flush at the time ever Walter's then said to the chairman look I've told Don, I've promised on this and that and then their relationship's gone a little bit where the chairman said to Walter you can't give him that we can't afford it and then instead of Walter then saying to me look I've dropped a bit of a bollock I've told you we can have this but you can't, the chairman's not having it and even if you had said would you accept a little bit more I'd have signed it because I would have knew that was then the truth but to go the other way and Walter was quite stubborn he then forged like an argument and put then the sort of bridge between us and I was like never needed to happen that No, no it does look and back it does seem that you left the club we haven't done this historically we've somehow lost people we should never have lost over things that could have been done better handled differently and Tim Fiori he said come back into the team it's funny because there was a game for Scotland and it was in that it was after Walter'd left so it's probably been the year later and there was a home game at Hamden like a member I think Sir Alex Walter and a couple of more really high profile coaches were getting their sort of degree and getting some sort of award at Hamden and he was on the pitch getting his award and we're sort of warming up and seeing him and we've not spoken because we've players managed at the time didn't have that relationship at the time so we've not spoken until this time we've seen us and then I've sort of looked over in the warm-up and he's getting his award this, that and the other and then I've gone back in the dressing room I'm sat in my seat and then Craig Brown's office was to my right hand side and then Alex Ferguson and Walter Smith sort of were walking down the line past the players to get to Craig Brown's office so it's obviously interesting he's got to go past me and I've not seen him or not spoke to him since that day and I'm sort of looking at him and he's shaking everyone's hands and he's getting towards me and he just had a massive smile on his face and all he'd done was he got my air and he just ruffled my hair like that and carried on walking and I sort of knew off all he's alright really, Walter's good Walter was a good man, it was just something that just just got broke at the time and it couldn't be fixed Yeah, that's what he's infiori eating as a fan into that green pole decision to give us the double over Liverpool that season as well and we're in the 90th minute we're in it actually injury time aren't we and West of Wales wax it against you it bounces back and goes into the Gladys Dynet you're looking the other way so you haven't impeded him he's struck the kick quickly and Paul gives four different reasons why he disallowed the goal and he's actually come out recently I should have allowed it I didn't know what had happened so disallowed it which is nonsense I mean what was that like for you? I think he had a panic upgrade Paul because he was obviously preparing himself and running away from the goal because Sander Vesterveld was going to take the free kick so the referee would head towards the halfway line where the ball was going to drop and I've been quite cute and I've just got in front of Vesterveld and he smashed it off my backside and then he panicked I think Graeme Paul and it blows his whistle full time I think that's the mistake he made where as you said he's honest enough and brave enough to say that I hold my hands that I made a mistake and he panicked in the whole for or of the situation he actually probably didn't know what happened and he should have let the goal stand but he panicked him for injury time best thing to do is blow up and he blew the whistle and I've seen all the Everton players running towards him I mean he said time has opened and Sky put the thing up and said it wasn't it was this and every excuse he used he hadn't gone there everything just got debunked I think he's ended up having to go I'll say it, he done us big time you don't have to say it, I'll say it but it should have stood and like you said it would have given us the double over them which would have been nice Do you remember my game for Sondland at Goodison my memory is it's the last day of the season so I'm playing for Sondland against Everton I'm ill so I've got tonsillitis at Sondland and we're playing at Goodison and really as a manager and we're going to Magaluf the day after the Everton game so he thinks I'm bottling the Magaluf trip and I'm gaffa, I said I'm ill and he went just come he went sit on the bench at Goodison he went I won't use you he went go to Magaluf the next day he went we'll have a great time season's been great, it's been fantastic so he sucked me in so I sat on the bench for Sondland at Goodison something happened in the game where a couple of his players got injured he put me on I ended up getting sent off I've got a stand innovation from the Evertonians Fancy you getting sheds off so I've gone to Sondland come back to Goodison got sent off and got stand innovation that was your proper goodbye but you didn't get the chance to say it the time before finally you just mentioned the Carlo Ancelotti good appointment for Everton what did you make of that brilliant, I work a lot on the Premier League and I work a lot on Serie A in Spanish football in Italian football obviously I've seen Carlo's sides always good sides always normally likes to play 4-4-2 which is a traditional sort of Everton system and the fact that he's kept big dunk on I think is amazing and dunk's first couple of games and just going very quickly off piece when he borrowed Howard's watch his first game against Chelsea was just you know it pulled on my heart strings massive so it's great to see that that dunk still on the coach and staff and Carlo's a world class manager and we've still got Bill Kenright and Farhad Mashiw with all his millions and I'd like to think the club's going places it's going to be an incredibly sad day when we leave Gooderson Park and go into the brand new stadium it's such a shame and hopefully I've been in touch with a few Everton sort of websites and forums where I think that you can buy a brick with your name on and take that to the new stadium that's something I'd love to do so they can help me out of that one that would be amazing and I think Carlo's going to be great hopefully he brings in some top class players Don, listen thank you very much you know your home school and everything else so thank you so much for taking the time out today's been absolutely brilliant and cleared up some niggles in my mind about what happened and things like that so listen stay safe thank you very much for joining us and I'd love to have another chat in the future when football comes back and we can actually talk about some footy any time you want any time you want it's been an absolute pleasure any time you talk Everton it does follow my art ring, it's amazing cheers Don, thank you so much for joining us really appreciate it so a big thanks there to Don Hutchison for taking the time out to chat to us on Toffy TV make sure you subscribe give this video a thumbs up and if you want to see the full video in its entirety join us over on Patreon see you later