 Welcome to NewsClick. As you can see, we've been thrown out of the studio. The sports desk has gone from doing no work at all to working so much that we've got a desk. Yeah, we've taken over Paranjoy, Guha, Thakuta's office this evening to talk about actually what was quite a fun Indian Women's League, the third edition of the Euro-Indian Women's League final. After a month of at least some really good goals, Gokulam Kerala taking that trophy 3-2. We talked about Gokulam. Obviously, we were covering the Women's League much closer last year. We were in Ludhiana this year because of Delhi elections and other reasons. We haven't been able to do that. But the experts are in the house, where we were the one who wanted to play women's football. But unfortunately, we got disqualified. Arjun Pandit. I got this one. Pandit is not good enough. Yeah, that's also true. He's a hockey guy. Pandit is back, which is always nice. So, guys, let's start with the final 3-2. Pretty good advert. Yeah, man. I think that's what I was going to say right now. Because I don't think too many people watch the game with all due respect. So, as far as an advertisement, then Kail Koi Baat kere gaya baat mein baat kere gaya. And you see the way the goal is scored and the way the teams have come back and both the teams playing in this and 3-2 eventually Gokulam winning it. That's a pretty good advertisement for the game and we saw the goals as well. The goal from the opening move. Opening move, that was a very good move. That was a ball lead. Space dekha on the right flank or left flank for Gokulam. That girl made a solid run. And then put a pinpoint cross-in. Savitra Bandari. Savitra Bandari. Nepal International. Savitra and Anu Basnet. They're both employed by Nepal armed police force. So, Savitra was with Seethu last year. Both of them moved with Seethu last year. Both of them moved to Gokulam now. Not bad man. I didn't mean Savitra's move. Savitra's move. No, so I'm just talking about the goal and it was a very good goal here. Maza gaya dekhe. I think in the first minute, they were caught napping. Tipsha. Tipsha. They were caught napping. Defense was completely caught napping. Put the ball on top behind the defense. Move was made. Cross was put in. And really good goal. Opportunistic goal. Opportunistic goal. And really, that set the tone, I think, after that. Because chitnavi manai match ko dekha, Tipsha, the team from Manipur, they were holding on to the ball well. But you could make out that by Gokulam is probably the only professional team in this setup. Because they were clinical. They knew where to put the ball. And they were moving it like that. In fact, as Bebov has mentioned in the past, the only team from either ISL or ILEE, which has fielded women's team. And they fielded it like, I mean, there's been some clubs which have fielded a team and then dropped out. But Gokulam have done it for like, consistently. And then when we were talking to their coaches as well as the promoters of the club, they have a plan to stay engaged with women's football. It's not like, Even last year, they had six India internationals on their roster. I'm not entirely sure how many girls are still in the India squad who are playing for them. But this year, they've added Ajithi to that. But they lost Dalima Chhibbar. Ajithi Chohan was the national team goalkeeper. So also, I mean, I'm going to use this opportunity to plug the story we did last year, which where a huge amount of criticism that Gokulam caught last year was for the fact that they didn't have local players. There were no Malu girls in the team. But there was like a larger plan, like which is also Dr. Ashok, the CEO of Gokulam, Kerala Heed spoken to us and he said that it's not the club can't affect that kind of change, a club can't affect that kind of change at such a deep rooted level so quickly. But that's what they're hoping to do. So over the years, I mean, actually, over the past couple of years, women's Kerala women's football has gotten much better. Like last year in the nationals, they got out of the group stages. For years, they'd been just dropping deeper and deeper into the group. Lots of schools are now offering football. They go into Shubrata Cup games, women teams are being sent for Shubrata Cup from Kerala. So it's pretty good. Didn't you also work on or write another piece where we're talking about how because of the popularity of football in Kerala, women don't often get the opportunity to play as much because the fields and all of that is all dominated. There's a lot of academies. See, also, they are encouraged women are encouraged to play other sports because Kerala does have a strong, yeah, exactly. So running tradition here, volleyball tradition. There's actually, this is like a lot of. There's a lot of football academies in Kerala. I mean, you throw a stone probably in a football. But almost all of them, this is what PV Priya was saying, their coach, Gokulam Kerala's coach, that very few of them offer slots for girls because they believe that we have to set up a separate girls academy. So what Priya had said was, at that grassroot level, it's fine. We don't mind that. And she said, that your niece is playing in the park, right? Yes, she's correct. We're going to get a team together. No, but I just think that even if there's no local talent in this team, then they can do that. The local girls there, they see that the local team is winning. They know local Kerala, then parents can get used to it or even the academies, they sort of take notice and then they're saying, okay, maybe you should give them space and time. There are lots of interesting things that have been happening with Gokulam. Actually, this is devolved into a Gokulam conversation, which also it makes sense because there's three of us talking about the women's league, which doesn't really work. So we should talk about stuff that we know a little bit more about. No, but like, so they did like double headers, for example, right? That when your men's team is playing and women's team is playing, they promote it on the same day. As that. Gokulam did. I'm on a Instagram page, they don't, they're not doing this like Instagram page for women team and for men's team. They're like, both of them are there. If you're following us, then why are you not watching women's team? So it's in the nightly game going on. Yes, yes. Same day. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they're thinking, I'm on a WhatsApp group basically with the media guys at the club for them to give the information to various journalists. It's also that your WhatsApp group has gone deeper. So they are kind of like a promoting it very much. And then as a result of that, because also journalists are then turning out and seeing the level or the quality of play is progressively getting better and better. So this time it was happening in Bangalore, which is far more like, I suppose, than Lodhiana in terms of presence of sports journalists and media across different languages. So because of all these reasons, the coverage that the league has received this year is also, I think, much wider. Yeah. I think, has it moved beyond the hard-bodied, you know, when you're talking about especially football in women, the coverage is that there's a little bit of a game. But the big coverage is social stigma, how you're breaking that barrier, how you're going beyond that barrier and then playing football. I think it's a mix. It's a mix. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I saw, I've seen plenty of match reports, for example, which are just clear-cut match reports. Not seen like this season. I haven't seen as many player profiles about like, you know, I used to play with my brother like that sort of story. Also, because I think the pool of players who are playing is now, perhaps, those stories have been exhausted and it's nice also that the journalists are like, listen, I don't know which way it goes because I remember, yes, last year, when we were sitting in the room with Grace, what is her name? Hindu, Sabitra and Anubhashnath. And the first thing was like, please don't ask us all that nonsense. Not that that was what we were going to do. I was not doing the interview. So that was not going to be the story. But he was saying himself that we are a little bit out of this, right? Let's talk about something else. Talking about the game. Yes, yes. So then, so, and we ended up having a really good conversation about like, two Nepal internationals, two India internationals. And they had played the SAF final recently, right? That was what the conversation became about. And it was far more interesting than, or whatever, engaging for them. All the stories are good for us. So there's no stress. But for them, it was far more engaging. So anyway, you guys want to give some more dhyan on the game itself? On the game, see, dojo vapis, Trifshana jo vakshi karee hai, 2-0 se 2-all krdiya. 2-all happened in the 73rd minute. 35th minute was when they made it 2-1. And then in the 87th minute, this girl, man, she used time girl, man. Really good, Sabitra. She looked at different level, yeah. A lot of level lagvithi from all the other players. And with all due respect to them. And again, that same thing happened in the first minute. Key ball has been put in the empty space on the left. Chota cross has been put in. And it's a good cross in this one. She just flipped it up, man. Yeah, it was such a great finish. It was such a like... Calm and... I loved seeing the celebration there. Every goal had a celebration. Eighth goal ke baat sabte sab eksad lagya and they're doing something or the other. Then in this third goal celebration, I think she took the flag. I don't know which flag it was, but... In fact, my favourite bit about that third goal is that the girl goes in, but there's an outfield player like about like 30 yards from the action who is like, let me celebrate. That reminded me of like... Mani bhi kya hua hai, actually. Well, yeah, if you can, then do go on the Indian football Facebook page, 87 is the goal. So, Sabitra has scored the goal and she's moved this side. Suddenly there is one player from her team who's just flipping on her own. Man, that is the level of celebration, man. That is also the level of passion, yeah. On the league, yeah. Yeah, you're winning the league. And she is, yeah. That goal is like the winning league. Winning... So, ye ap celebration li baat kare na to ek side, ek track aahi gaya. Kusho... Take a minute, man, man. I am very high. Sorry. Tumhara hi chabcha raha hai. Ha ha ha ha ha. Ab bhai nahi gohar hai, baat nahi gohar hai. Baat nahi gohar hai, baat nahi gohar hai. Aur abhi side track hai hai. Zawar daas. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Leh gaya, bhai. Mere paas kuch hai nahi gohar nahi gohar hai. Main sii dekhya raho. Now. Ab dekhna hi gohar chandi hai. Paas kuch nahi. Ram kala hai, saai gohar hai. Hindi guy raki. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Haan bol nahi gohar. Dekhye hai, bhai. Tige hai. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 2, 3... Ab saai im gohar hai. 4, 5... Ab to saai... Tia hai, niga aap man hai. Ab to saai hi baat ho ghi bhai. Ab saai im lagi hai toh afin ka... Anyway. So, you know, by the way, you've got them on camera now. So, you know how to blame if the volume is wrong. Short me bhi hain. Short me bhi hain. So... Na mohit hai. So, after the cut, haan. Jo huma sort of side track tha, boh celebration related hi tha. Jo... Thodi boh ladai hui thi, Bhagavat hui thi. National team mein, women's team mein. Okay. Jo Kripsa khi coach hai aur main promoter hai. Chauba. She's the assistant coach of the national team as well. And she runs this club as in like, she's the main person that... That's why you see Kripsa also doing better and better progressively, because some effort is being put into it. But anyway, the issue was that six of these, when they qualified, when India qualified for the third round of the Olympic qualifier, big moment. And Kamla took her shirt off at the celebration. And so the fight began from there, after which the management asked these players to write a written apology. Bala, all of these players who, you know, were key members of the national team. Written apology to who? To the management. For what? For generally their bad behaviour. What they considered bad behaviour. Seeing of seeing behaviour. And they were berated then only, on the pitch. Oh wow, all of these, this kind of... Yeh gohda satra hi baat hai, I think. Okay. Baaki sabne apologise karke, wapas aagai hain hain team mein. Except this one woman who has incidentally been consistently. Either top scorer or close to top scorer, including, yeah. So, and her point was just that, how can coaches not understand players celebrating a goal, when the goal is scored? You know what the irony is? That the moment that women's football really hit the mainstream, like hit like public consciousness, was when this American player called, you remember Brandi Chastain, when she took off her shirt and it was on the sports illustrated cover, that picture. That's the irony, that's when women's football like hit the mainstream. See, because the athlete is an athlete yaar, unko koi fath nahi padh raha hai, uska gender kya hai, unko bhi hai. And if Savitra Bhandari can get the same high card as Christiano Ronaldo, then also people can celebrate in the same way, right? So, I mean, sorry, maybe it was just a relevant tangent. But yaar, so they are standing up for themselves, and at least Kamla has not, like what should I apologize for? She's not been in the team ever since. Completely overlooked, and it's ridiculous, good player. Solid, strong player. On the one hand, you are saying that you have a very limited player base, okay? There are very few teams that play. There are very few states where women's league happens. Junior level pe bhi abhi shurwaat aur hiye, deheri-deheri bachche khilna shuru gare hain. On the other hand, you have a finished product, who is already in the national team and is among your best players. Usko aik ego, ego battle ke uspe aap completely unko bholge hain. I think. But this is not... And then she's got... I think in this edition of the women's league, she's got a hat-trick against Kripsa, I think, if I'm not wrong. Maybe we can check. Kamla. So, a little bit of revenge. Take that. Boom. All right. Interesting story. Good story. Night battle going on. But nonetheless, I think, how long was the league this time? Last time when you went to Ludhiana, how was the... Monthish, it's been about the same. So, all teams come together for a month, they play the entire thing, and one go, boom. Progress, I guess, so many years will be once you have more teams. Yeah, yeah, it takes time, man. You know, we take it into phases, and we don't have a North Zone. Exactly. Best zone, whatever. And then you come together, like the second division. Yeah. And then eventually, after a few years, maybe a big corporation will buy the rights to this, and they'll start something else, and demolish all of these. And there'll be these guys on this YouTube channel who'll be constantly fighting. Like, it's like... Nothing will change. No, but the encouraging thing is that, while the teams in the national league might be the same for now, at the state level, participation is increasing. So, if you ask AFF, they'll tell you that there's more and more interest from... No, the same thing is exactly what PV Priyad also said, that there are more girls coming in at state level competitions, schools, district level. There are more girls' teams being fielded across India. So, that's pretty good. It'll take time, but I guess you have to give it another 10 years, man. Minimum 10 years, for that pool to expand, and slowly, then you can think of a longish league, and possibly players getting paid. Because players getting paid also depends on how many people are playing it, how many people are involved. So, Gokulam was playing, I don't know how much they must be playing. How much must they be playing? I really cannot... I mean, at least... They must have three-month contracts or something. Yeah. So, you come together for like a month and a half, before the league. Yeah. And you do the league, and then, of course, if you win, you get a bonus, I'm guessing. So, Gokulam players must have been given a bonus. Yeah, I'm sure. Definitely, there's prize money there. So, definitely, there are a slice of that. But more importantly, it's the... I think the fact that there's a contract at all is a big thing. Because, if you look at the men's game, it took 40-50 years to get a centralized, like a standardized player contract in place. And to ensure that clubs are giving those contracts When you signed up, sir, did you have a contract with Gauhar? Yes, sir. Yes. I don't think it was standardized, I guess. No, it was a corporation, right? Yeah. So, maybe... Corporate, right? Yes. So, that's the thing. They have to pay the entire salary. But yeah, a lot of the clubs, which were not backed by corporates, for a long time, there were no contracts. It was just that there was a verbal agreement. Yeah. There was a cycle. And yeah. So, these guys, of course, it took some time. Now, there's a team. After that, there will be someone else. I think the thing is... Yeah, but the same thing is that the amount of money you're giving, I think, is perhaps secondary. It's important, but it's secondary. At least, you're giving respect, that you're signing someone as a professional. You're fulfilling a professional role. You know, actually, that's what the... Yeah, that's the crazy thing, that if you talk to any of these girls, they will not speak about what we're getting, what's the contract, they're just like, we're getting a game, we're getting a league, yes. We're like, which is... I mean, it's kind of sad also. I think what most teams are missing out and what Gokulam has done is that, see, if a lot of these ISL teams and all, everyone is still in a very nascent stage trying to get fans and trying to get a backing. ISL teams... No, but still, I'm just saying, ISL, iLeague, whatever it is, if you have a women's team and do what Gokulam is doing, do the men's game over whatever, vice versa, whenever, you suddenly expand your market mind. You suddenly expand your market and you you keep at it, not for one year, two years, but you keep at it for five years and then you see the rewards coming in. Rewards outside of the field where more and more people are getting interested in your team and they go to a family type environment. 50% of the population, what logic are you going to ignore? Like an earlier point, like you said, this is a very good point because this is exactly the conversation they are having in the super league in England where they are saying that these big teams like United City, Arsenal, now Spurs also have a team in the top division, they are all saying that you are bringing these girls in, you have created a team, why not give them the same access? They give them the same pitches, give them the same training facilities. So there are very few clubs that do that right now. They don't have their own training facilities. No, they have their own, it's separate. Like the Arsenal women don't play at Emirates. They play at Borough Mood which is like separate. Which is the academy. But the crazy thing also is that Arsenal are the first club who on their website now don't say Arsenal first team and then say Arsenal women team. Men women. So there is that sort of semantics of it is also important. And it's important because again when you are saying about tapping into fans what Gokulam are doing just with the simple fact that they are advertising both their teams on their Instagram page is a big thing. It's like, automatically you are tapping into an audience that's already there who are going to watch these girls. I mean you are a supporter of a club right? So the club whether it's for the club or for the ball then you are a football fan. So you should study in the club. On top of that, since Bala Devi has gone to Rangers and when we were talking on that entire thing, there are I think two or three other girls from the Indian team who are getting ready to go for trials to Sweden, getting ready to go for trials to Norway and because work permit visas are much easier to get over there. So they won't be able to go to Europe as many girls will go. And like Bala Devi, I've heard she's already made the cut into the team. No. 10 is given by Glasgow Rangers. It's not a small thing. And as we have been talking for a long time I think if we are qualifying for the World Cup if we are keeping some in mind that it's important for us to qualify for the FIFA World Cup then we need to focus a little bit our entire focus on our women's team because let's be honest man if it's going to happen, it's going to happen there. True. But I think we're still not we're not involved right now at all yet. Now that top-down approach that the Under 17 World Cup has come I actually feel, I don't know if I should say I feel bad but you suddenly before your Under 17 team you didn't even know what's going on at that level how many teams are playing Suddenly the Under 17 has come and you've set up a camp to make the Under 17 team. And this is the World Cup. It's not that senior nationals are going that you've set up a camp that you've set up a camp that you've set up 40-50 people and the team is growing and they will represent India versus some solid teams. I mean I'm sure it'll be fun for them it might be fun for them but when history looks back and say that you've scored goals history won't be kind to them you might be the first team that plays the World Cup I think they might have some surprises also for us I think I don't know, football works like that I think the gaps are not as massive as they are in the men's game because just like in India football for women has been ignored it has also been ignored largely in many parts of the world North America and China and Japan have some notable exceptions to some extent Sweden but other than that most of Europe because like where money is already there everyone is running and they are involved in the same circle I mean there's like stories like what we are talking about the girl who sued her federation because they did not give them the same facilities her club was not giving her money and the federation didn't come out in support there's across the world there are these sort of stories there is a strike anyway there are a lot of things to do which we should do it would be nice to get like I don't know like if you are talking about women football they may seem out of the box but maybe you should get a woman on the show seems a little out of the box I do that man I mean they just thought this was a normal idea but the women that we want to get are celebrating right now because they have won the league so their celebration is going to happen hopefully we will bring them we will get hopefully maybe you can take the conversation forward by talking game talking game play and how things are moving who are the good players how do teams move what are the strategies generally teams adopt in the Indian women's league and that could possibly progress this conversation and also we have coming up on the 18th the head of sorry let me just check on this what is that event there is a FIFA under 17 World Cup event it's a launch event it's a schedule event this thing bro no no it's that what do you call the Anthem Anthem Launcher so essentially it's a media event I guess then but at that media you mean you are meeting Sarai yes yes meeting but we are hoping to meet that was we will be there Mr. Prof. Patel is also there Mr. Raju is also there Mr. Prof. Patel is the responsible for bringing the under 17 women's World Cup to India so no doubt he will be there for all the photos this Anthem Launcher not a big fan of these anthems bro sorry only one your national anthem what's wrong with you you didn't like the 98th Anthem I just feel like a copy paste you have to make a team make a tonneau this and that couple of life everybody is making an anthem and these anthems tell me something honestly how music worthy are these anthems bro sorry this is the exception will you honestly ever listen to these anthems wave your flag whenever someone goes waka waka I will judge you there the Christmas Albums used to be a thing all these clubs like blue is the color football is the game oh this is so bad such bad music Chelsea football club singing some of these songs think something new bro go to youtube and search it will be fun after watching this show if you like anthems hit him on Instagram send me a favourite one just no abuses that's all we thought it would be a long conversation so let's stop the story of 420 grams let's stop but we will come to you again next week with Aditya Chauhan, Jyoti Bharat P.V. Priya and maybe couple of other people to get a wide range of policies as wide as possible so see you then