 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts Sal DiStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews So in this episode of Mind Pump we had Larry Hagnar on from the dad edge podcast. He actually came and Visited us. We were on his show and then he was on ours and he's got a podcast about How to be a good father? How to be a good man a good father I really like this this this trend that seems to be coming out right with these podcasts or there's a big need for right? Yeah, you can see that there's a there's a need for this that I feel like you know And he kind of touches on this in the podcast that Men just have a really hard time asking for help, you know admitting they need help Dude, we know this is trainers like you know how hard it would be for like you to get male clients Sometimes they're gonna come ask you and it's even hard for men to just have open conversations with other men other than you know Extreme situations like you're in war or like you know like you're you're you're in battle You're in like a you know sports or drunk Then it really comes out. Yeah for people to now openly talk about I think it's very therapeutic Well, he does a good job of of humanizing himself right by no means is he Claimed to be an expert at being an expert father or have all the answers It but he provides some really solid guests and he kind of rattles off some of the people that he's had on the show He's got some really good guests. Yeah, he's had some great authors and great guys and friends of ours We have a lot of mutual friends It is it is interesting a lot of people who are doing this these kind of things these movements these podcasts about being a better father a lot Of it comes from the fact that they didn't have That role model and he goes into that in his life is in one of the reasons why he started this was to help himself out Help himself grow he had become a new father and you know for it's scary for first of all It's scary being a parent first time for anybody male and female But if you're a if you're a man, and then you're having kids and you didn't have that strong You know positive father role model I can only imagine how much more terrifying it would be the part of it You know Adam and him actually connected quite a bit over some of that and yeah I think he was surprised by I think he was a wasn't sure what to ask me because I don't have any kids That was on his show. Yeah, right, right And then he led with the the dogs and stuff like that but then you know There's a reason why I'm not and those of you guys that are you know Been listening to mine pump for a long time and maybe have not heard that that I think I got a little bit deeper on his show I think you got it even more personal which was great to hear And I think people would appreciate that to listen to that episode two on his podcast. Yeah, but he's a good guy Really good guy. He's doing a good thing. He's got great guests on the show So go make sure make sure you check out his podcast the dad edge Podcast you can also find his website, which is good dad project comm forward slash alliance. That's the dad edge alliance and then on Instagram It's the dad edge or at the dad edge Facebook the dad edge group and and that's pretty much it. I also do want to mention this month Maps performance is 50% off. So this is the maps program that we we originally designed mass performance For the for the functional training CrossFit type crowd, you know back in those days when we first started the show We would criticize the some of the exercise workout programming of you know CrossFit fit boxes people said hey if you guys are criticizing it What would you yeah? How would you do it differently? Yeah, we had to really like, you know collectively put our efforts in that direction of what that looked like So maps my performance is like you have a solid strength component You have a solid mobility component. You have a stamina component an explosive power and speed and agility component It's literally trying to turn you into the ultimate all-around athlete It's a must program for all dads a lot of rotational stuff going on when you got to pick up kids up off the floor I'm running around with them kids still and you're a 35 40-year-old strength That's right. I want to be a badass. It's a mandatory program, but it's 50% off. You have to use the code Green 50 that's green the word green and the number 50 no space At mind pump media comm on that site You can also find a lot of our other pump programs and bundles bundles are where we take multiple mass programs and put them together And then discount them like our super bundle, which is a year of exercise programs So all of that including mass performance of 50% off with the code green 50 can be found at mind pump media comm And without any further ado here. We are interviewing Larry Hagner the host of the dad edge podcast Oh, dude Larry can't beat you dude. It's his first day here second They're again Justin whatever dude you guys just get used to last place, bro Get used to last place. I'm gonna give you guys as many wins as I can so you feel good about you I saw what you did on your insta story I mean yesterday with the men's physique pose like the subtle Totally was like it like a little side like did he really I was I was just a little Hold on. Did you have your shirt? You know, he got all the all the compliments. I saw all of them Let's see what you did That's natural Okay, so my wife who's in studio with us today. She was like, where are we going? I was like, oh, we're gonna we're gonna go on mind pump podcast It's like literally one of the biggest podcasts on iTunes. She's like, well, have you met these guys? Do you know what there? I was like, no, I haven't met him yet, but I was like hold on So I went I googled and a picture of Sal came up I was like this is one of them. She's like, oh She's like, I'll sit in for this podcast That's a lot of blue steel a lot of Photoshop No, don't lie, it's not although, you know, it's funny. Sal's a master of lighting Yeah, no in angles. He's like mr. Angles and lighting I remember the one of the first critiques that we got after the show been going for a while And you know, we talked about and Sal shares a lot about being all natural and dieting and eating and overall health And one of the critiques we got was someone saying that who's the guy with all the anabolic steroids in the picture because they think he's on steroids That's gonna be such a rad compliment Those are not But so so Larry tell us a little bit about your Yourself and your podcast you have an interest in there seems to be this growing market for You know podcasts and media dedicated to helping men navigate What it what it means to be a man and be a father helping men be men Yeah, and how to be fathers like you know character Yeah, tell us about how that all started and then I want to ask you like why you think that market seems to be growing Yeah, so I started I I founded the good dad project back in 2012 and literally it be it came out of Struggle like struggle because I struggled just like all of us guys do with fatherhood and you know You live this quiet life of desperation as we always call it. So 2012 I started that It was a Facebook page and then 2013 I started the blog Good that project calm and then in 2015 I launched my first book Which is called the dad's edge and I also launched the good dad project podcast at the time And then I mean the podcast has been around now for three and a half years in January I changed it from good dad project to the dad edge. It just seemed you know from a if we're talking Marketing and business and and men who really want to dive into certain content What I've noticed about men in general is whatever they're listening to and I'm sure you guys know this especially men especially dads They have to feel Cool doing it like it has to be a part of them So like if you look at like actually the the logo it's it's a Spartan shield, you know And that's what the dad edge is and really that's that's what we talked about We help men become better men and a byproduct is as they become a better father the byproduct of that has become They become a better husband. They become a better business owner But that's my podcast Really started because to be honest I'm just as a much of a moron father is the next guy and I just decided I was like I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a student of This I just want to learn and the podcast Allows me to talk to men who and guests who are just way smarter than me. So the podcast has really become Just a platform of me learning and then sharing what is I'm learning So when you first started was it a business strategy to do it or did you look at it more like scratching your own itch? Like this is something that I just for that exact reason I can get to touch people that I probably wouldn't be in contact Yeah, like a hobby or yeah, what were you doing previous to me? Well, so I've medical device sales So I was doing that and it was it was be it was really just scratch my own itch because I was just like I just want to figure this out. There was no intention whatsoever of making a business out of it and I'm proud to say it's it's it's thriving now. It's doing really really well, but it all came out of struggle Hmm, you know a lot of times like what drove for example what drives a lot of people in fitness Especially people who are in fitness for a long period of time is because They're dealing with their own either health issues or insecurities I know what motivated me when I first started working out was a very skinny I felt inadequate so I want to learn how to build muscle. I want to learn how to train and drive those things why what drove you to Do this for dads and for men. Did you have Good role models growing up that were fathers or did you feel like you you you lacked that? And this was something that you want to create for people like who were in situations like your own Yeah, so I'll share my background because I think it definitely gives a lot of context to what and why So my mom and biological father were married in 1971 they had me in 1975 nine months after I was born my mom and dad broke up they split up and he was gone When I was four my mom married my stepdad I didn't know my father had no recollection of him whatsoever and So this will be a funny story for you guys when I was four I'll never forget this so I was in preschool and I always remember like these guys coming in to pick up their kids And I knew what a dad was however. I knew that I didn't have one So I'll never forget the first time my mom brought a guy home to have dinner with us and she'd been working with this guy So this guy walks in he's got the 1970s three-piece suit on the mustache the briefcase because there was no iPads back then or anything like that trench coat comes in and my mom's like hey This is Joe and I shook his hand at four years old. I still remember this to this day I said are you gonna be my dad? Awkward moment for your mom real quick. I just remember like it just went quiet In the room after that so you know they laughed about it But a year later they did get married and what I can say about him was he was a very nice guy Probably one of the nicest guys you ever want to meet However, he had just a dark side He was a huge drinker and it was a Jekyll and Hyde situation when he drank man, you know Adam I know you we talked before this and you shared your story It was it was six years of absolute hell like Mental physical abuse my mom and him, you know beat on each other. He would beat on me I was you know choked and strangled and well We have a very similar story then and even to the point of what you're sharing right now with how he my stepfather I was seven though when he came walking the door only he came in with the mustache and permed blonde hair and Rolled up in his iraq z So he was uh, and he was a carpenter. Yeah, right So he was but he was a good-looking guy and everybody loved him I mean and I to actually still have a relationship with him today too Uh, so but he definitely had I mean when you meet him He just seems like an amazing amazing guy But him and my mom were just and what I've grown and I don't know if you're similar in this way You know, I kind of blamed the both of them, right? Like I don't I don't think that he was as a kid I was you know evil bad stepfather, you know in the abuse and stuff as I got older I saw that my mom was responsible for just as much of the ugliness and abuse too and So I think they were just toxic together. They were just awful together, right? I can definitely say that probably about my mom and her Her relationships that she had because there was always a guy in the picture and it was whether she was married or not She went on to be married Three times total every guy just had his bag of issues, you know just toxic alcoholic, you know It was it was just it was it was pretty chaotic growing up I always say that half my childhood was spent without a father figure and the other half was spent with with a toxic one And I don't I don't say that out of pity. In fact, I give gratitude to my background now Just because it's you know, it was it was a great learning experience of what not to do, right? But I will say this I did meet my biological father for the first time and just for the sake of time I won't go into how but I did meet him when I was 12 and I never had a relationship with him I think I had an opportunity to meet him and we kind of hung out For a few months and then we had a conversation a few months later And you know, hey, I'm married again. You know, I have a two-year-old son. I have another son on the way Uh, my life is complicated. So we ended up Going our separate ways and that was really tough because my mom had just gotten divorced I you know ran into my biological father lost him again And then you know, like I said, my mom married a couple more times and it was always a disaster The the tail end of this story really started when I was 30 So when I was 30, I had my first son who's 12 now And I met my biological father again. It was crazy crazy crazy like right after you had your kid or he was 12 You were 12. That's crazy. Yeah, actually. Yeah, well, he well So yeah, my son's 12 now, but I was 30 when I met my dad, which was 12 years ago But it was right before I I met him before my son was born But I was sitting in a Starbucks With a friend of mine a co-worker of mine and we were we were talking about business And all of a sudden this guy walks into Starbucks and he caught my eye and I just was like, oh Oh, shit. It wasn't like a plan meeting. Oh, oh get the fuck out of here. Yeah Wow, that had to been crazy. It was great. It was nuts Like I mean my hands kind of sweat even kind of talking about it But he he walked in I was like, I was like, you're never gonna guess who just walked in and she's like, who? I was like, that's that's my father. She's like your father isn't the guy like you've never known. I was like, yeah He's like in the Starbucks line. Yeah Yeah, and she's like, what are you gonna say? And I'm like, like what what is he drink? What's his order? It's curious. It's funny you say that because like she's like, what are you gonna say? And I was like, uh, nothing I'm just gonna take the the chicken shit right here and not say anything. Just let him go on his way She's like, that's your dad. You're not gonna go say anything to him. I was like, what am I gonna say? I was like, I'm gonna get a white mocha. What are you getting? You know, it's like There's nothing you really can't say. She gets up Goes over to him and I'm like, what are you doing? And before before I could stop her I see them talking and all of a sudden I see my dad like he's far away And I see him and like I can read his lips. He goes, where is he and he started looking around And he comes over and I'm like, holy shit. Like I'm like sweating at this point. I'm like, do I leave? Do I go to the bathroom? Do I run away? Like, what do I do? He comes up. He shakes my hand and we start talking and Anyway, long story short, he asked me if I wanted to go out to breakfast later that week and we did And here we are 12 years later And we do have a relationship and he's still married to the same woman He was married to back then he's been married for 40 years now. I think I have two Half brothers I uh that I get along with great My kids know him is grandma and grandpa. I mean, it's I don't call him dad It just wouldn't probably serve our relationship very well But we have we do have a friendship so but I I say that because When I became a dad for the first time I was lost Lost terrified zero confidence No idea what to do. I can honestly tell you I struggled with it for probably Nine years. Um, I even struggled with our marriage. I just zero confidence And I did what every other guy did. I sought validation In other things outside of the family. So like I dove into work because hey, that's where I was doing good My career was going great. I dove into hobbies. I was in the martial arts big time back then like I'm good at that I I'll go do that And I just my balance, you know was completely off now going through that does that give you empathy for him And what he went through probably trying to make that same decision around when you were younger Like 12 when you guys read do you have any empathy towards him? Or do you still hold animosity towards him? Wow, that's a good question. Um So what I've done in my mind is there there is that part of me, right? I mean I There's maybe it's the animalistic part of me where I look at how he is with you know My brothers and and I'm just like Damn like Why couldn't we have that growing up and why did did did you leave again when I was 12? There is that part of me. However, I purposely focus on not Thinking that way because I feel like it ruins the present. My dad's 71 years old right now, you know He I don't he's he's actually in perfect health still works still a business owner. Very successful entrepreneur Uh, but I don't I don't know how much time we have so I just want to make the time that we have count, but I will say this and I've I've told this to my wife who's here in studio I don't understand what might have happened there because there's nothing that is that bad that would I would break ties with my own kids. Mm-hmm. I think Being a father for most men is when you first become a dad is challenging scary. You don't know what to do and The default at least for me and I think for a lot of people the default is when you when you're in that situation Is you look at the the the playbook that your dad Created for you or that I you know, I had a father that was present. He was very active in our lives So I got to go back to that default and be like, okay, I'm scared But I think I know what I'm doing here I think I you know, I'm gonna do what my dad did because you know, we had a good relationship and But you didn't have that and so that must have been much more terrifying for you going into fatherhood Yeah, we call that the blueprint, you know, your your dad will blueprint, you know Either good or bad examples on you growing up and I didn't really have one I will say this though. I had an amazing grandfather like amazing And I think and he was my mom's dad and I think he would he he was a man's man And he loved my grandmother like he was so affectionate. It's so complimentary like literally to the day he died And I got to see that So that really helped me tremendously like my my wife says all the time that I I love her like my grandfather loved my grandma And he was just very open about it. Uh, but yeah, I will say this it it messed with me quite a bit You know growing up because I was like, I know my grandpa did but that was still my grandpa Like I didn't I wasn't with him 24 seven So in certain situations a lot of situations. I had no I had no clue what to do and that's what I think frustrated me the most How important do you think it is for uh for children to have a male? role model, uh, you know To have that that father figure I think it's I think it's critical. It's and if you look at the statistics, I know we were talking about statistics earlier Uh, if you look at you know juvenile delinquency if you look at drug use if you look at time in jail If you look at all these different things, you know anxiety depression in the fatherless homes Those those statistics are skyrocketed without that father figure around Yeah, you know, it's funny when you were when you were born, you know back in the in the mid 70s The single parent household rate. Well, they're already grown. It actually had grown quite a bit I think since it was since the 60s you started to see that spike 70s 80s. It really started taking off today Some communities, uh, you know as much as 70 over 70 percent Of the households are single parent now, uh that a large percentage of that the majority percentage of that Is a absent father. There's definitely households where the the mother is absent, but it's it's actually quite rare I mean, I think if when you hear about a mom, you know leaving her kids, um, people are almost shocked like, whoa, that's crazy And that's weird when we talk about single parent household. We all automatically assume It's the mom that's hanging around because the majority of time it is What's going on like why are guys because that wasn't like that it wasn't like that, you know Five to six decades ago seven decades ago like you men stuck around we didn't leave we were there as much as the You know almost as much as the moms were it's it seems like it's an epidemic. Uh, that's happening What do you think's going on with that? So I think if you look I just had a podcast cast on the talk exactly about this and marriage and why So if you look at the resources out there, we have a society Of marriage breaking not marriage togetherness So like so for instance, there are a gazillion resources out there if you want to end your marriage That's that's easy, right? There aren't that many resources outside of going to couples counseling to make that marriage and that situation Work so it's just I think a lot of it has to do with it's the norm now. It's easier There's resources. It just seems to be what doesn't work out So on that note, you know, we share a lot on our show Some of the things that we've implemented into our lives to strengthen our relationships with our partners You know, and I love that you're you're open that you've been challenged and you went through all this Are there things that you have now implemented into your life or your routine that helps strengthen your guys's dynamic in your relationship? That has been a game changer for you that you you share maybe on your podcast So my wife and I yeah, yeah, yeah, so uh, I try not to to fart and then throw the covers over her. That's rule number one The old dutch of it. I told you Sal. It wasn't a good idea. That brings us together. I told you that brings us so I get teased This is true. So Katrina and I seven years ago there. We don't we don't fart in the same room We don't we don't shit in the same room like we and it's not like I also don't have kids You They've been saying that forever and she's actually it's crazy because I've always been this way And it's more just out of a respect thing for her like, you know, my my boys I love to have them smell my fart, but I think the woman that I sleep with every night She probably doesn't enjoy it as much. She doesn't know you fully Adam Your kids end up farting on her too We'll see these guys been saying that forever and her her mom actually tells her all the time that you know, honey Don't let the don't let the guys over at mine pump tease you about how you and Adam She's like that's a very your father and I were like that our whole life and And I and it's kept the relationship sexy and this and that when you guys have kids Are you gonna watch her give childbirth? Probably not. Oh really? Okay, I was gonna say because if you do all kinds of stuff Things are there. Yeah, I really don't have a desire to do that Oh wait, I'll see my kid come in like 30 seconds later Okay Anyways continue on I just wanted a side note there for you. That's okay that you stop farting on your wife I think that's a great strategy that another rule is never never take a shit with the door open Just don't do that. Okay, right? These are okay things private time but but all okay all kidding aside One thing that we we we can definitely say is and this sometimes goes against what I think married people What they believe because I I've put this question out to the community and I've I've gotten different responses Uh, are you a parent first or are you? A couple first, you know and one thing that we pride ourselves on is we are a couple first parents second And for some people it's the other way around however The way that just can I look at our relationship is we are the foundation of the house And if we're not taking care of it's it's a lot like what you guys do if if the if the If you're a listener if your client if your audience isn't taking care of themself Usually it's the other things that go to absolute hell if they're not and that's the same way we look at our relationship You can't you can't pour from an empty cup. Exactly. Good luck. You'll be pouring nothing. You know exactly exactly and no one wants nothing Exactly so that's that's rule number one. The other thing too is uh, we respect each other so Anytime I've known Jess now for 22 years. We've been married today 15 years. Congratulations. Thank you Thank you. And we're in the mind pump studio. How about that? That's a cool anniversary. Hopefully never forget this one. That's right But we uh, we fight we argue respectfully So I can honestly tell you like our kids have never seen us raise our voices to each other When we argue it is the tone that i'm using right now. It's the same tone that we use We never name call. We obviously never hit the other night We were actually sitting outside on the deck and we had a slight disagreement And we were just talking like this and my 12 year old goes are you guys fighting? And I was like we're disagreeing. I was like, but listen up. I was like, this is a really good lesson for you I was like because it's okay to disagree. It's actually healthy to disagree. However, when you disagree You don't have to raise your voice. You don't have to call anybody names You don't have to do any of that stuff. This is the way to disagree and he's like, oh, okay, cool You know, and that's not the way and I'm sure you're the same way. That's not the way I grew up Right. I mean there were pots and pans and crazy stuff thrown like when there were disagreements and I feel like guys like us You you either go that way or you go complete opposite, right? You're exactly either you embrace that and you think that's normal Which is sad for me because this is what I see happening to my two youngest siblings Is they're falling into similar patterns as my stepfather and my mother the too oldest I think that we were old enough and wise enough to know that this isn't right This isn't healthy And so we've chose you can you can just tell by our partners even and we have like the our communication Both my sister with her husband and me with Katrina I mean, that's like that's rule number one like you don't raise your voice You don't speak down to me and the real thing behind all that besides all the rules and stuff is and this is just across Forget partnerships and marriage like this is in life like communication You'll never in in work and in relationship friendships and just talking to another person when people are calling names or yelling You're not listening nobody's fucking listening. So if you're desired outcome, you know If I'm in if you and I are having a conversation And my desired outcome is to get you to see my way Me yelling and calling you names will never accomplish that So if that's my real desired outcome, that is the stupidest way I could go about it And so I think I tell people that regardless if you're in a marriage or not When communicating and if you're if you want to be an effective communicator You have to learn to talk like that. Otherwise, you'll never win In fact, it does the opposite right the total opposite. Yeah Yeah, so so those those are the two big things. Those are definitely the two big things Yeah, we have to take care of our relationship and when we argue, you know, we do it respectfully The other thing too, this is a big one We never ever disagree with the other per if so if Jessica is disciplining one of the boys because I have Four boys because I'm crazy like that If she's disciplining one of the boys and even if I'm like wow, I really didn't agree with that move I am not gonna do it in front of them. No, no way and she doesn't do that to me You know because I mean kids are smart man. They'll play one against the other So like for instance, like if they come to me and be like Like mom did I'm like If that's what she said That's what it is and this she does the same for me and then behind closed doors You know, she or I will be like, hey, you know, I kind of didn't agree Never show weakness and what I mean by that is undermining. Yeah, you guys are a unit Like that's it. There's no weakness between us. There's no light between us So you got a problem. You got a problem, you know, you don't want you to disagree with one of us You disagree with both. Yeah, and then you guys can work things. Yeah, is there some common themes like that that create you know these these sort of Things you have to work through like you guys have disagreements about like I know for me and my wife We we tend to find like certain themes that like like create conflict But we kind of know how to navigate now When it gets brought up. Is there anything like that that you guys go through? Yeah, I mean, I I think there's a few I have to I have to think about I'm gonna sell her out Creating this right now I know one uh, and This is why it's such a mind fuck doing the doing the dad edge stuff Because like you always talk about how to be more present how to be more intentional And then there I am while she's talking to me on my phone Checking instagram. She's like, yeah, even listening to me. And so that's like a big one Like so that's one I always have to kind of keep in check like hey, you know be here with us You know, don't don't be doing your business Don't be doing and it really screws in my head because like that is my business is like helping other fathers Doing what I am not doing. Do talk about it. What a challenge that has to be now Is she on social media? Does she use social media at all like instagram facebook and all that? Not instagram, but she's on facebook. Okay, so Katrina doesn't isn't on any platforms, which I think is definitely Helped our relationship here that way. It is yeah much easier that it's like that's my business because before you know Before this happened for mine pump happened. I was never into that stuff I mean, I think our age group and above is just like, you know My space was coming in as I was like getting older and and be honest and no offense to anybody here It's like my jam when that stuff came out. I already had a bunch of friends So I didn't need any digital ones So I didn't really pay much attention to all those things because I was out doing shit with all my friends In real life that I didn't need those types of tools until we got a business that kind of required that we dove into it And now I I find this struggle of learning to separate those times of i'm i'm in business I'm and it looks like i'm scrolling on instagram and only looking at booty pics and I tell her all time It's like yes, those come in my feet a lot and I and I do like those But I am doing other productive things also in there, but so talk about that What a dynamic that's been for you guys's relationship because I know that can be very challenging when somebody has a Your business is based on social media It is it is so yeah, you know having a podcast obviously and then having a social media platform We have what's called the data alliance which is our mastermind community Which that we use facebook as of right now to to have a forum So it's it's a lot of I mean the business Business and social media never sleep because business is social media You know in a space like this so it is hard to disconnect sometimes that is one of the issues that That we probably face that that just go like she'll she'll tell me about but at the same time I don't take it as a one thing that just because not she's not a nagger like she's just not that way So when she brings something to my attention, I know it's it's legit and I need to pay attention to it But that is one common theme, you know, it's like hey, you need to like have have us time You know like put put the put the devices down That's awesome. You sound a lot like Katrina. That's kind of how she is. She's not a nagger So when she does say something I'm like, oh Okay, I've probably been a little too consumed with this and she's brought it up to me You know my my girlfriend's business is on social media also and one thing that we started doing she started I thought was brilliant So now we both do it is if you're talking to the other person And they're they start to go on just stop talking And then when they say well and said no, no, I'll let you finish and then we'll continue And it's no anger. No nothing just You know focus on one thing at a time rather than dividing your attention and it's effective if she's talking to me while I'm doing that She'll stop And she'll she'll say okay, you can finish what you're doing Then I'll realize what I'm doing Maybe it's not that important or as important as listening to her or maybe it is important I'll tell her okay give me five minutes And so now we don't rather than dividing our attention. We're much more much more focused I want to ask you about your transition from medical device sales because that's a very lucrative business To be in and to you know podcasting. I know for sure the first year or two isn't a very lucrative business so What was that transition like for you and was that a difficult decision To give up something like that to do what you're doing now and how'd that look? Yeah, so um I haven't broken free of the full-time job yet. Okay, uh, this will probably be my last year doing this I I could easily break free now. It would be fine However, we want certain things set and we you know because I I think And this is a good lesson for any entrepreneur. Obviously, there's a lot of entrepreneurs that listen to your show I believe passion is the fuel But strategy is the map Like you have to have like I have a ton of passion for what I do However, you have to have a map and I know exactly What I need to do to get to that point because right now I have I have five of the people that depend on me besides Besides me, right? And if you have four boys one of them is always in the pantry like our grocery bill alone is out of bounds It's crazy. So but I will say this You know going from So it's been a it's been a tremendous lesson in business. So yeah, when I was a podcaster It's actually the other way, you know, it was it was money out because I was paying production fees and all So the stuff, you know, then show sponsors came And then I wrote a book and then in 2016 we started what's called the dad edge mastermind And that we had over 200 men go through that 12 week program Now we have what's called the dad edge alliance, which is our mastermind community And that's just that's just one of of a couple of different streams of revenue or Several different streams of revenue we have now But that is that's a thriving thriving thriving group of men and I can tell you Trying to build that navigate that. Yeah, it's been no easy task I always say, you know being an entrepreneur is is not for the faint of heart Especially if you're a busy father who, you know, people are depending on you, right? So Uh, I haven't made the transition fully yet But I the the next I would say probably within the next six months will be that for you Scaling a business like this is is really challenging and I think a lot of people don't I know Realize it because I think there's a lot of people out there that fake it You know that make it look like you know, they take pictures They rent, you know fancy cars and they take pictures in front of it Like they're ballin out of control and in reality There's there's not a lot of money in this until you do get really really rolling Are there some things that you thought would be easier that ended up being more challenging? And what are some of the hurdles that you've had with scaling scaling the business to where it's at now? Yeah, there's definitely been some hurdles and I will say this For busy fathers, I feel that you know the past few years of working the nine to five while building A business probably speaks to more men than just Diving in head first or feet first because I do believe you have to be smarter about it, but scaling it this I mean, there's really been not much out there Doing how we're doing it So scaling the business it's been I've had to hire business coaches. I've had to put in processes structure automation The whole nine yards to make sure that so like for instance the majority of of my business is when a when a new member comes on You know a new a new guy comes on and I can tell you if If that is not simple if that's not a simple process for A man, he's not going to do it. So making things not only Very simple very easy from the customer experience also very effective for the customer experience At the same time on my end where I am not working relentlessly because as an entrepreneur You can work yourself into a low paying job if you if you don't do it, right? Explain that was that was it like so when you first started was it kind of clunky? If I wanted to join your group or what about that and it was I had to jump through hoops Or it was just not a smooth process like explain what it was like and then where you're at now So in 2016 I ran into a couple challenges with it. So it was a 12 week what we called the dad edge mastermind So what did that mean for me every 12 weeks? I had to go out and find new clients Right and then for my client that meant that that session was coming to an end and I had clients Who are like, well, what am I supposed to do now? I want to I want to keep going What do you have for me? And I didn't have anything for him not to mention I don't think stripe was available then if it wasn't I didn't know about it So I literally sent out manual invoices Oh, yeah square I just had to track everything on a spreadsheet Oh god to send out everything make sure I had certain highlights and colors for guys who had paid and guys who hadn't It was a nightmare. So I really started The quality of your life depends on the quality of your questions that you ask yourself, right? So I started asking myself What can I build that will fulfill the need of a man doing something that we do ongoing? It just doesn't end And how can I streamline that for him? And then also, how can I streamline all the back work for me? And that's when I thought, you know, that's when we we uh, we can't put the data edge alliance Which is it's ongoing it never ends, you know, it's once he joins he it gets billed out automatically It's deductive from his credit card. Just simple things like that The other thing too is there's a lot of things as you guys know being entrepreneurs that happen Um behind the scenes you are the ceo. You're the cfo You're the sales. You're the marketing and you're the janitor. You're all those things I had a business coach mine tell me make a list of everything you hate doing Everything and all the things you like to do and then your next step is to hire out everything you hate doing and focus only in on the things that you like and only the things that will Create value number one for your for your current customers and number two grow it and that's what I did So and it took a lot of like so podcast production, right? Uh, that's one that's one out. I don't even touch that anymore. I record my show I have a girl who does all my show notes all my seo I have another guy who who does all the uh the podcast editing And it's literally hands off and it frees up so much mental space so much time to go out and do things That I really want and need to do of course, you know Maybe seven or eight years ago. I didn't see or hear of podcasts that would focus on How to be a better father or how to be a better man? There seems to be this explosion in the market with You know, you have people like jordan peterson coming out in his book seems to attract Lots of young men. We have friends in the podcast space like ryan missler from order of man You know your podcast which is very successful and others Why do we why do you think there's this explosion in the marketplace of men? Seeking out this kind of I don't know guidance and information Men are hungry for it. I mean without a doubt, but they're quietly hungry for it If you if you look at most men, they're not going to be very outspoken about like Holy shit being a father is way harder than I thought, you know, and I don't seek help very often They don't they don't the hardest thing for a man to do is say I don't I don't know and especially fatherhood It's one thing to You know to do what you are do what you do for a living And then seek out coaching for that. I want to make my business better help me to do that Guys will do that all day long what they won't do is like I'm not being the best husband right now I'm not being the best father. I'm not very confident with it. I lose my temper. I lose my patience I need to be better at it, but I'm sure as hell not going to ask for help for that because then I'm going to look like an inefficient father. I'm going to look like an ineffective father It's going to be a a mark on me as a guy Do you think it's there also maybe because a whole generation now of men Has been has grown up now without uh male role models without father because you know, this has always been a challenge, right? Men have always been wanted to be you know, better men better fathers better leaders and providers But do you think now it's now today? Maybe this there's just more men now who've grown up without that and just They need that that guidance. It seems like there's a bit of a crisis of you know the crisis of masculinity if you will Yeah, so the crisis of masculinity. It's a huge hot topic right now. I think more men are We see more engaged Men in this particular generation than I think any other generation, you know And yeah, I think that there's a lot of validity to that because Guys either grew up without a father or they grew up with a father that maybe wasn't emotionally there He just kind of went went out and did the work came home Very few I mean very few guys that I talked to you know, it's I mean the numbers are staggering But they're very few guys are like man. I had the best dad You know, he was awesome and I just want to be like him. It's usually the other two So now we we're seeing I think more that hungry man who's like This stops with me like this pattern stops with me. I am going to be a better father and it's going to start with me And I think that's what you're seeing now How do you coach on that? What are the things that you talk like? What does it mean to be a great father? Like what are the things that you talk about? You know with your podcast and your mastermind. Yeah So we focus on five dimensions of basically what affects us as men, you know, we have our financial dimension We have our health dimension which includes physical mental emotional spiritual health We also have the relationship with our wife whether we're together or not Relationship with our kids and then what we do for a living and what I have found is that those those five dimensions affect a man in a very profound way So like for instance and what I found is most men are doing pretty well in one or two of those and then Three of them. They're not doing so well. So like we'll take a guy who's Ripped he's fit man. His health is in check, you know, he's got confidence, but he's broke You know and and because he's broke it's adding so much stress and pressure to his marriage because there is something very real about financial intimacy That's that's a real thing And then we'll have guys who are like, man, they're just as you were saying earlier ballin, right? You know, they're making tons of money. They're they're they're traveling They they, you know, they're they're just making a boatload of money But they have zero relationship with their wife or kids like they haven't had sex with their wives in six months You know, their kids barely know them, you know things like that But financially they're doing great. So what we what we see is we have to figure out first What dimension are you Struggling in and which one are you thriving in because that's what we want to give to men It's like you you want to give them the keys to the To the dimensions that they're not doing so well one of the most common dimensions that you're finding Well, first up before you go that direction. I wanted you to explain financial intimacy. That sounds interesting I've never heard anyone say that before that means you have sex and a pile of money That's what went through my head, right? Just like scarface Adam's like I do that all the time, right? I knew I was on track What the hundred dollar bill go babe mind pump media tv So financial intimacy so 50 of all divorces are caused from financial distress So there and and here's the other thing too. Were you guys taught personal finance growing up? Nope. No It was not I was taught to save I came from very traditional old school a time family So it was like throw your money in the bank. But that's it, right? Yeah. Yeah, three don't don't spend your money Which is better than most people. Yeah, I got nothing But I don't know how to invest. I don't know what interest rates were credit cards how they work Like I had to buy, you know investment I got set up with loans. Yeah. Yeah, that was great. Thanks mom Borrow everything, right? Yeah, so none of us growing up were ever taught personal finance ever, you know So if you think of being a father being a mother You're learning that on the fly, right? They're like, oh, yeah, here's your kid. Best of luck Same thing with finances now you have to navigate the world of finances And if you're looking at the joneses, you know, everybody's buying their new cars their big houses They're this they're that you have no idea what's going on behind the curtain But what you do know is like, oh, it's the american dream We just take out a loan for everything and people are floundering in debt I just heard a statistic. I had a jesse meekam on who's the ceo of of winab, which is you need a budget and he He's got a he's got an incredible business, but The majority of 50 year olds this statistic will blow your mind The majority of 50 year olds have an average of $50,000 in retirement And it's not because they haven't been saving. It's because they slowly take out of it year after year after year to keep up with their spending So financial intimacy is if you think about it Creating a vision for what you want your life to really look like if money was not involved And then understanding, well, what do we want our money to do for us? and then Almost deploying every dollar as a soldier as what do you want it to do for you? And how do you want it to work for you? Like so for instance Jessica and I we're on the same page financially. We're like, we don't give a shit What car we drive because we know it's gonna be filled with goldfish and cheerios and mud and all this like crap That's some real stuff right there. Oh, it's it's it's nasty four boys. I mean, there's there's so much dirt So cars aren't a big deal However, life experiences are a big deal Christmas presents are not a big deal. A lot of people go nuts. They rack their credit cards during christmas time on stuff You know one thing we're doing for our for our family for our two boys our two older boys and and us as we just bought OAR tickets for st. Louis OAR the band and we are actually going to be on stage with them So and and that's obviously, you know, there's a pretty penny involved with that. However, we're like, this is christmas Right, we want to give an experience not stuff that's going to be broken. Anyway, right So yeah creating that vision. It gives you financial intimacy So the question I was asking was what which dimension do you find is the one that's the most common that men are lacking in? It's it's all over the board really it's literally all over the board every guy has a different situation Like I said, some guys are just so financially stable, but their marriage is a wreck It's literally all over the board Yeah, I would think that it would be like that where you're strong in one area But then you're almost always weak in another is it ever do you ever find somebody who's got a super balance? Yeah, I know I would think that it's you're almost always robbing peter to pay paul And when you talk about five different dimensions, it's got to be pretty tough to kind of crush all five of those Do you ever come across guys that you think are killing it or do you even feel like you're killing it in all five departments? It's it's it's definitely a challenge You know, you always feel like you're fighting it to crush it What we always say is don't try to necessarily crush it just be balanced in it You know, because there's always going to be teeter totters, you know, no matter what you're never going to sit back and be like Oh, I did it. You know, you're never you're never gonna be at that point. However, what I find The most successful men no kidding around Number one, they take care of themselves first. So they take care of their health They they you know, they have a morning routine usually they meditate They work out They're methodical. They're they're strategic. You know, I mean as crazy as it sounds, right? they'll literally They'll they'll gamify and make goals around spending time with their kids they'll literally okay my goal today is to read my kid a bedtime story and To talk to my 12 year old today for 10 minutes of uninterrupted And I'm going to schedule a date with my wife Like literally when they put pen to paper when they write things down when they go when they make goals around it Those are the guys I see thrive So it's funny you bring that up because there was a lesson that I learned in leading people And I share this on our podcast all the time From a book that I read back in my 20s And something that I started to do with my staff Instead of being a manager who was always pointing out the things that you could do better in and that you did wrong and correcting it I began to focus on all the things that they did well And the way I had to do that was I actually had to write it back then we had palm pilots See this was before the iphone existed and in my palm pilot I had all of my staff and at that time I think I was managing somewhere between 20 to 30 Trainers and front desk and counselors at my place And I'd have a a thing scheduled and at like nine o'clock in the morning The alarm would go off and say, you know, Larry and I would know to go find Larry Walk over put my hand on your shoulder and point out something that I thought that you were doing really well I can see how that would translate into even parenting and fatherhood, right? Where that would be a really valuable tool is to do that as silly as it may sound To give yourself an alarm or write down on a piece of paper A reminder or do stuff. I think it would be it's something that I know even though i'm not a father I would apply that same strategy to Those are the guys we see thrive. You know that literally they're they're intentional They're purposeful. They're methodical. They're strategic. You know, I mean a lot of guys think that being I'm a father it should come naturally to me. I should be able to do this. Well naturally nothing is further from the truth It is a tough fucking job. It's really really hard. However, if you know how if you can use those same strategies Leading people I wouldn't even call that managing people. I would call that leading people because that's what you did Uh leading people the same thing with your business if you can take those same skills And incorporate those into your family. Yeah tremendous things happen because what what is our what is our usual? Uh default our default is to find everything wrong our kids are doing right and we're all guilty of that However, if you can incorporate something like that It's tremendous. It's the power. I mean think about what you did for that employee, right? Right. I mean you just made their whole day their whole week probably Imagine what you do to your kids or your family or you know co-workers that you have if you did just those things Your kids will either they're either going to act and behave in ways to avoid upsetting you or they're going to act And behave in ways to impress you to yeah to continue you right being proud of them and happy with what they're doing It's two very different, you know Mentalities and strategies. It's like um, it's like a boxer fighting to win versus just fighting to not lose It's a very different different looking fight when you watch somebody and you know on the tv And you can tell they're just trying to maintain their lead and they don't want to lose versus somebody Who's actually trying to go in there and win right so it's kind of similar, you know with that I've talked about on our show quite a bit about how much growth I've had personally Through podcasting both through the conversation. I have with my co-host The sharing that I get to do on there and then the guests In particular the guests that we get to meet and how I get to leverage my podcast To meet people who I never would have had the opportunity to meet everyone from You know Paul check to bishop baron to you know, uh, you know people who started incredible businesses and been very successful Who have been some of the most impactful guests you've had on on your show and have you experienced growth like that? Oh, yeah, I I've so when I first started the podcast three and a half years ago I had I always say that I was on god's good humor, you know for like 10 episodes I kind of knew what I was going to do it after that I was like, um, yeah And I'll never forget. Uh, so it was right around like episode 50. I'd been doing it a year That's when I really started getting some amazing guests and it it blew my mind One of the first big guests I had was Carlos Condon UFC fire But I've had you know, Carlos kind and I've had Jim Miller, Frankie Edgar Frankie Edgar just came on for a second time I just had on if you guys seen the movie 13 hours. I just had chris tonto paranto on And you know, I've had uh, gosh, let me thank the whole gamut of of just amazing guests navy seals and I mean just I've had new york times been selling authors like john eldridge who wrote, you know wild at heart and gary john bishop who wrote, you know on f yourself Unfuck yourself and uh, I would say When I first started podcasting I was like, there's no way that someone I could get somebody on the show that has any type of You know clout like that And it's it's it has shocked me because every single person I've ever reached out to to come on the show Has said yes except for one That I've always wanted to get and that's seth rogan because I'm yeah, I'm sorry Seth gooden. Seth gooden. Yeah, he doesn't like talk. He won't talk about his family publicly But um, everybody else has just been fatherhood has been such an amazing part of a man's life What I've noticed is is men are very eager To talk about their experiences and things that that have been a struggle for them and things that have been good for them But as far as Incredible lessons, uh, one came from a guest uh, erin walker who's uh, his best friend is dav ramsey Uh, they're really really tight. They've known each other for 25 years Don't come home with a wallet full of money and a house full of strangers That's one thing that that's a good one. Yeah, that was that was big Um Frankie edger just came on he talked about the importance of always dating your wife You know, that's that's something that we talk about all the time Uh, I would say uh, another lesson Is Being being the example, you know, because your kids are always watching you I just had on christopher voss who wrote the book never split the difference He was the fbi chief hostage negotiator for years And he talked about the importance of allowing your kids To make mistakes and pay for them themselves He's like your instinct is to always, you know, protect your kids From failure or from heartache He's like the best thing you can do the best lesson you can give them is to allow them To go through the pain of making a poor decision because life is gonna hand them just a variety of different challenges Is if you coddle them if you protect them, you're you're not doing your job Oh man, failure is a great teacher. Are you kidding me? What do you think about this current generation of kids that get trophies for Just just entering into a you know competition or shown up or not keeping score I couldn't believe my daughter was in a basketball league and she you know, she's eight years old So it's a bunch of little kids and they're playing basketball And there was no score. Nobody kept score. They were just trying to make the best I'm like, why what do you guys they need the losers need to know that they lost so they could learn from it Otherwise what the hell's the purpose of of playing this, you know, this game? What do you think about that? I hate it. I absolutely hate it Um Every pro athlete we we've had a variety of pro athletes come on come on the show One thing that I can honestly say about all because I've asked that question to the pro athletes You know, how do you get to this level? You know, what was your childhood like playing sports and the work ethic that was instilled In these guys who are in the nfl or the ufc or whatever else they're doing They were like participation trophies. No, absolutely not one guy actually told me that his dad threw his participation trophy away And he was like, you need to earn this you can't he's like, this doesn't happen in my house Yeah, but yeah, so my my three my uh, my two oldest boys they wrestled for three years My young my 10 year old was gifted wrestler worked his ass off He was second in state with wrestling has medals galore, right? Now my older one he you have to finish in the top three of every wrestling tournament to get a medal And it would always crush my older one to come home without a medal Which was pretty often and he was just like Well, don't I get a medal for being there? I'm like, no You have got to earn so like let's let's train harder, you know, let's let's work harder, you know And that was but yeah, that's the mentality given everybody participation trophy. I just I don't agree with that No, I think it's terrible because what do you want you want to raise strong kids? At some point, they're not going to be in your under your roof You're not going to be able to protect them How the hell are they going to deal with the real world that doesn't give a shit if you participated and sucked Nobody cares if you participate if you show up at work and you suck You're not going to leave with an award, right? You're going to get fired Like, you know, what's that old what's that old sales movie gling gary glen ross? Yeah Was it first place in catalac el Dorado second place set of steak knives third places. You're fired. Yeah, that's life Yeah, you know I'm saying I think it's crazy that what what people are doing with their kids And they're so afraid to tell them, you know, my my my kid is here today with us He's not obviously summertime and so he was in the back doing inventory And he was trying to vacuum up in the front and he's he's working with us and he's a very very good student He tries very very hard at school Usually gets straight a's every once in a while. He'll bring home a test where you know, it's like a b or something like that And you'll bring here show me the thing and he'll wait to see what my response is and I'll say to him Well, are you satisfied with this grade? Do you think this is the grade that you earn and you know his response is Well, I tried hard and I said, but do you think you could have gotten a better grade and you'll say yes And I'll say, okay. Are you satisfied with what you got? How do you feel about The score that you got and you can see his wheels turning, you know, because I also I'm not trying to make the case that Being the best is the only thing that matters because you'll never be the best There's always somebody better than you But applying yourself is what matters and caring about that is what matters and just showing up Shit, man. We're you know, nobody owes you anything. I think that's absolutely insane how people how people At least society today tries to do that Do you guys talk about this kind of stuff with the with the dads and your masterminds? Is this a common belief that you're finding or do you think or there are a lot of dads who are thinking no They need to get a trophy just for showing up. I think if you talk to most dads, they get pissed at that They don't like that because it it rewards Uh, show exactly what you said showing up. No one's going to give you a reward for going to work I don't I don't feel like a bunch of dads got together and made that rule You know what I think you know what that's funny. You say that I think that would you know what that's a reflection of That's a reflection of of societies that are growing up or generations that are growing up without dads I tell you that right now 100% I think that's and this is no knock on moms because I think moms Moms are there when dads aren't most of the time. Okay, that's the bottom line and moms are I mean, they're they're your moms. I mean they're they should be held up on a pedestal But I do think that's a reflection on a lot of dads not being present a lot of moms You know saying hey, we can't have you know kids winning and losing because that hurts everybody's feelings Right. I really think that may be a reflection of that. You know, yeah, there's something that's called that's called life Absolutely has any of your guests shocked or surprised you or you expect one thing and you get something totally different Uh, let me think so I had like I said, I had uh, chris tato pranto on the show and One of the things that uh, that he said Man, this one just blew me away Uh swallowing your ego And swallowing your pride and asking for help Can be one of the most powerful things that we can do and this guy, you know, he survived Benghazi for 13 hours You know, he's a he's a he's an army ranger I mean, this guy is like one of the baddest dudes on the planet, right And he was talking about how he was going through the 75th ranger battalion training and how hard it was And he just he just crushed it crushed training and then there was one guy Uh at the end and you look at somebody like chris like he's like, you know, he's he's an elite warrior Like this guy never has a bad day, right? He's in great shape. He's mentally tough So when he was going through his training the 75th ranger battalion, he just he was crushing it training was going awesome On the very last day, they had like an 18 mile ruck You know, this was their last thing and they were doing calisthenics and he had all kinds of gear on He had his gun he had his gun on he had his rucksack and he was dying And like eight miles in he was like, I I don't know if I'm gonna make it like he was just dying So there was a guy who was really overweight Barely made it through anything and chris was just on this guy's ass all through training And uh at the very last day This guy this this overweight guy, you know, who's training right next to him goes Give me your gun and chris was like, I've been pushing your ass Ever since day one. How am I going to give you my gun? He's like, you're not going to make it You're not going to make it. You don't make it. You don't graduate Be really horrible if you didn't graduate in the last thing that we had to do So chris reluctantly Gave him his gun to carry and this thing weighed like I think 40 pounds And he was already carrying another 40 50 pounds on his back along with all his gear He ended up making it but he said that the biggest life lesson Was to swallow your pride and ask for help when you need it because most men don't do that And that's such a lesson for guys because the hardest thing that we do Is raise our hand and ask for help. We would much rather live a quiet life of desperation and isolation And just being miserable before we're like, I just need some fucking help. Isn't that funny about us men? Well, it takes a more strength and confidence real confidence. Yeah To ask for help than it does to not yeah, that's that's the truth. I think it takes a bigger man To say hey, I can't do this man. You want to give me a hand? Yeah, then somebody who's just afraid to do that So I think what happened? I think we tend to You know, we internalize it and we confuse ourselves and say, well, you know asking for help is going to make me weak No, you're weak because you're afraid to ask for help. Why don't you show some strength and confidence? It admit that you you can't do something alone. I think there's a there's a big lesson in that I learned that, you know Early in my personal training career I learned when I first became a trainer was I was afraid to ask for help because I don't want Or tell my clients I didn't know something because I had to know everything And about a year in or so I realized I get more respect when I say I don't know but I'll find out Um, and then I grow and learn anyway because there's a lot of people out there Most people out there know more than you do that's that's the Well on that note Is there do you see other common themes with the struggles that men and fathers go through like that? Obviously being one right? Is there other common themes? And I know we said earlier that with the five dimensions There's a lot of individual variances and you've seen it all But you know, you've worked with so many guys now looking back Do you see like a lot of common mistakes that we tend to make or traps we fall into? Oh my god? Yeah, so I can almost I've had I've been blessed to have I don't even know how many conversations at this point one-on-one in a group or at a speaking event or whatever else I can almost say things before before the man does at this point. I'm like, what do you what do you struggle with most? Patience, you know patience is a big one now patience The reason that men are short on patience is because That we tend to internalize so much, you know, we bear the weight of the world on our shoulders We think we have to do it all we're into this like whole like I'm a lone wolf, you know Going through the deserts of Las Vegas cocaine and Little hangover reference shout out to hang over no, but I think most men are like, oh, I need to be a lone wolf I need to be a lone and what happens. Do you guys know what happens to the lone wolf when a wolf leaves the pack? What happens dies dies dies the the wolf leaves the pack to go die And if he's lost his pack, he's gonna die that sooner or later What's gonna happen? But men think lone wolf they think of strength. It's actually the the extreme opposite The wolf is strong because of the pack and the pack is strong because of the wolves that are in it So we have to remember that as men and men we are community beings We're tribal beings, you know, if if we are not surrounding ourselves with the right men in our life That's going to be detrimental. And so we talk about patience. We talk about temper Guys have a problem usually with temper and it's usually a manifestation of we try to take on so much and we have zero outlet We don't have like that board of advisors. We don't have those men in our life to talk about these things and i'm not talking about Being fruit fruit and mushy and all this other stuff like I want to talk about my feelings. I'm like, hey look like I'm Perfect example of finances like this is where you know a guy would be like, hey I'm not having the best situation right now in my marriage and financially. We're a bit of a mess Like how are you how are you guys doing it? How are you making it? You're having that open discussion because if you think about what men talk about We talk about like the same four things over and over and over we talk about what we do for a living What our kids did on the weekend, you know the current events what trump's doing all this other stuff It's very very surface stuff But I mean If men had that outlet if they had that group of guys that they could Really dive into it. They could if they had that board of advisors. That's where you see a man really start to Take more control over his temper take more control over his patience level Things like that because that that's what they struggle with a ton is is patience internal dialogue negative talk all kinds of things There seems to be a growth too of actually that seems it's just statistic now of more and more Men not wanting to get married and not wanting to start a family So more and more men saying I don't want kids and I don't want to get married Do you think that's a good or a bad thing? I don't think it's a good thing But I think it's it's an individual decision But if you look at so I just had Garrett white on the podcast you guys know who he is wake wake up warrior Okay, warrior book So he talks about millennials and not wanting to be married and not wanting to have kids And he always talks about like well a lot of millennials if you look at it They haven't really been taught work ethic. They haven't really been taught relationships Like their education has been on a on a social platform on a device platform You know, they're in front of screens all the times, you know, their their definition of a relationship is I could swipe right if i'm interested or swipe left if i'm not and I can go hook up It's almost like Where's the motivation to have a deep meaningful relationship when you can just go on a on a whatever and on a on an app and Swipe and go hook up. So like yeah, there isn't a whole lot of motivation For for millennials or younger people now I'm going to play devil's advocate with that because a great book ijin that I read not just too long ago Talks about part of the reason for that statistic style is because we are more informed at this Younger generation is more informed They were before and their wiser because they actually would follow up with those kids and ask a lot of them Why are you not and they'd say well statistically? I could you know at 50 50 shot and to fail. Yeah, it's destined to fail or and they and so because they're more aware of that So it's a side effect of what's happened, right? So some of them are and that's not again That's an over generalization But I do think there's another side of the coin that could be a positive thing that This generation coming up now has access to information like that They can get in a podcast and listen to Experience older dads talk about all the challenges of parenting and fatherhood and being in a marriage And so they're more informed and so maybe a little bit wiser to hey Maybe I should wait a little longer before I decide it's a trend that's happening in all all modern western societies And it seems to be the more prosperous and wealthy and successful the less Uh children people want to have and the marriage percentage tends to drop I know america's birth rate rate is at the absolute minimum that is required to sustain a A functioning society many european countries are below to the point where they can never recover Japan is below to the point where I think it's like in 10 or 20 years They're going to have more people over the age of 60 than they will Uh, you know younger than that which it's scary. Who's going to take care of who's going to take care of things? So it's a very interesting You know, um, it's an interesting trajectory and it may pose some kind of new problems funny though The percentage of women that don't want to have families get married is also growing But not nearly at the at the rate of men The male percentage is what's growing the fastest I mean, I guess we could all speculate as to why that may be one of my speculations is this There's no more rights of passages. So and here's the thing what I mean by that is Women have a natural right of passage, which is their biological clock, right? So they they know like, okay, if I don't if I want to have kids and I don't have them in this before this period of time The odds I'm going to be able to have one or much much smaller to the point where it won't be able to happen A guy's, you know, clock is much longer. You can wait till you're 45 50 if you want 60 And you can still have kids and so I think this is my own personal You know opinion it's kind of Peter Pan syndrome where guys are like, you know, I'll just Have sex with a bunch of girls and just go out and make money and you know I have all kinds of time in the world and it feels like that and there's no other rights of passage You know, I mean whereas before we had other rights of path Do you create anything like that for your boys? By the way, do you have any rights of passage for them that where you say, okay, now you're this age and this is what happens or Or now it's funny. You mentioned that because right now so like growing up without a father or like the craziness that I grew up with I didn't have that right of passage. So I have a son right now who's 12 and he is becoming a man You know, and I'm sitting here scratching my head. I'm like, I really need to have something for him I need to do something for him to give him that experience of hey You're no longer like you are a boy, but you are turning into a man The answer to that question right now is no, but I am Searching for that because I think it's important and I got three other, you know, right behind him that I want to do something to allow him to enter that next part of his life in a profound way And I also I think it's important I think there's something that mentally clicks especially with young boys, you know, like I'm I'm becoming a man now, you know, and I think they start to make different decisions They start to look at life a little bit differently, you know, so yeah, I'm in the process What did what did Ryan of order meant? I know he talked about his with his boy. What was his process? He did some pretty fascinating ones like I think I forgot what the ages were but he would take a sun camping and you know A certain age they got the first You know 22, you know rifle or they got to hunt or you know It things that he picked that were kind of like hey, and I don't think it matters really what it is I think if you just you can pick traditional things or not But I think sitting down and and having that conversation and telling them, you know, because like again like it's the lesson behind it That doesn't matter, you know boys and girls grow up and both go through puberty, but a girl gets her period So she gets that conversation She gets that conversation like what's happening to my like really this is like a kind of a A rite of passage and then again that biological clock, you know, what does a guy get? You know, we get pubes and what like, you know, there's really nothing that we sit down and say hey This is what it means comfortable boners. Yeah, exactly Yeah, you know what I'm saying like what does this mean and you know What it means to be a man type of deal and then again the fact that a lot of boys are growing up without dads Yeah, so they kind of don't you know, they kind of don't have how do you how do you police? Like uh social media right now because they're coming to that age too where they probably that's a good question Pornography is a big that's a big worry of mine with my son's 13 years old He's on the internet like do you do you have any strategies to deal with that? Right now this is I wouldn't say it's the right answer, but it's the answer we have right now So they they don't have phones yet. They're 12 and 10 their course they want to which is totally okay Because I didn't get my fucking first phone. It's like 20 They'll survive. They don't even had cell phones They had the nokea snake phone when I was in high school. I had a pager, you know what I'm saying Get them a pager pager. Why are you not home? Yeah. No, so they don't have but they do have um They have iPads, right? So I just had uh Cameron Adir on the show and he is the world's expert on devices screens Video games internet youtube and what it does to a kid's brain at these certain ages And it was like holy shit like Parents if you guys are listening right now, and you have a kid you have we have no idea what we're up It's a huge experiment. Yeah, we have no idea what we're up against It is a freaking monster, right? And when I had cam on I was like, holy shit This show is actually my show with him is coming out in september, but I was like This blew my mind. So to answer your question right now we Anything that they go view on youtube So it's connected to my account so I can see it They are only allowed to be on 30 minutes of screen time per day and that's it As far as like the sex conversations so like write a passage like I mean, yeah You know, so I took my boy shooting that kind of thing. We also we had the sex conversation So I did bring them up up to speed on all that but as far as like pornography I just had an expert on um how to explain porn to your kids on the show And she wrote a book called good pictures bad pictures and to be honest I've been At this point a little too chicken shit to actually sit down and read them that book because I'm like, what am I going to open up here? Because eventually what's going to happen is they're going to get curious and right I think Sal's going through the same thing right now Right like you how much of it do you want to share because you feel like your boy's got some innocence to him still? Yeah, it's a it's an it's interesting problem because when I we were kids Oh, okay, do you remember how valuable one dirty magazine was? Oh, it's crazy. I could I could not making this up I know I know kids that traded their bikes for dirty magazines. Okay, you Porn is so it's so accessible now. It's like now you it's all free You didn't nobody pays for it and it's all out there and there and you can literally go through endless pictures whenever you want And it literally changes the way your brain is wired to the point now Well erectile dysfunction is growing the fastest age group that ate that erectile dysfunction is is growing Is in the 20 year old age group? Erectile dysfunction. Yeah, that never existed in 20 year old males or at least it was super rare or it was connected to some health problem Now you've got you know This growing up a percentage of kids that are like over saturation Yeah, it's just the only time ever in human history where a man or a boy or whatever Would be exposed to that level of variety would be in the extremely rare case that they were like a king Or something like that or some, you know, the leader of a you know Massive tragengous con like you never had that kind of access before Changes the way the brain is wired. So it's actually quite dangerous. It's actually not crazy. Yeah, it's not just being a period It's not like, oh, don't look at porn because it's it's dirty It's like this is a health thing that you gotta and when the brain changes at that age because it's constantly molding There could be potential for permanent, you know more long lasting type changes in the brain What were some of the takeaways from that guess that sounds like a very interesting guest? Yeah, so here here's the thing I mean you can police this all day long in your own house, right? But eventually my kid's gonna go to his friend's house. Check this out, right, right? Right, so You know, I'm getting to that point now where I'm like, I really need to sit down He knows all about sex. The funny thing is is he knows that we have sex, which is kind of funny But that's a whole other Noises Here's a really quick funny story So that it was like a month and a half ago We were you know, we were in the bedroom doing our thing doors locked And of course, this is when you feel like a really great father, right? So it's like 11 30 at night and this summertime so the kids are up late anyway So we're just we're trying to get some time and we hear a knock you knock knock knock. We're like, yeah And they're like, hey, uh dad. I'm scared. That's all right. You'll be fine Pretty good. Let's go upstairs But dad, I'm really scared. That's all right. We'll talk about in the morning So that's when you're like, wow, I just totally like and then to add insult to injury That was my 12 year old my 10 year old comes down. He loves to draw like loves to draw He's very proud of his drawing Knock on the door dad dad. I just drew this cool picture. Can we see it in the morning? Yeah, but I I really want to show you now and I'm like, no not right now We'll see in the morning. So like and then he's like continues to do it. I'm like just go upstairs So slide it under the door, right? So the next day no kidding around is where you feel like total shit as a parent and the boys come to us And my son was like, I was really scared I I cried last night to sleep and I'm like and then my 10 year old He's like I cried too. You didn't want to see our drawing my drawing and I'm like So me and Jessica talked about it. You're like, they know about sex like it's probably just it's at this point It's probably healthy for them to know that explain what mommy and daddy are doing right But but even from like a boundary standpoint like look, there is time when when you are not invited Okay, like and there needs to be an understanding there, you know, so We sat him down. I think we scarred him for life because we told him We're like, look, we're just gonna be honest with you guys when he came and knocked like we didn't mean to hurt Your feelings. All right. We know you guys both cried yourself to sleep. We're sorry, but mom and dad We're having sex and they were like what? That's disgusting Right already have three brothers. You don't need to do that anymore. Yeah. Yeah Their next quite that night as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, their next question was well Did you make a sister because we need a sister as four boys So, you know, we told them we told them but there's boundaries and all that stuff but With the whole porn thing I think it's just god It's it's up to that point where like I have no idea what I'm up as a father What I'm up against here because I'm like god bless like there is an arsenal of just as you were saying Like just free shit out there waiting for him to click on the wrong site So I think what I'm gonna do with him is just be the one thing we've always been with the boys Obviously we tell them what happens is just being very real with him like hey Porn is not a good thing. I'm not gonna do it that way I I want to I want to make sure that he knows the real consequences of like look if you get into porn Here's what it does to your mind. Okay. Like it's one thing to look at porn But over time this is what it and if you want to be with a girl sexually guess what? You know your penis may or may not work because you've looked at too much porn. Just scare the shit out of him. Yeah You might fall off Yeah, you'll go bald. Yeah, you know, you know when I think about it I think to my because this was a big thing I was like, okay, how do I talk because I know what we were told like your hands will you grow hair You know on palm of your hands you go blind like all that didn't stop me at all You'll not you're like I'm still good I don't give a shit if I grow hair on my palms is cool So what I one thing that I try to do with with my boys rather than because I'll tell them that too But I also try to be very honest because there's a reason why people look at it You know like we had the drug conversation same thing Why do people do drugs? You know, I can that can scare the hell out of them But I'm also going to tell them because they feel good and that's why people do them and here's why people get addicted One thing that I've done is I just I really hammer home the the difference between a relationship And how much more valuable it is and how it's in a completely different universe than just you know sexual pleasure Very very different. And so that way at least he'll he can weigh the two understand like, okay When I'm with a girl and I build that relationship and have that connection That's going to be way way more valuable than just this momentary pleasure. Yeah, it's indulgences, right? It's and we talk about that too even with food and like like having sweets and and You know desserts and all these types of things like, yeah, of course, you know treat like there's going to be treats And there's going to be times where you know But but if you ate that every single day and like and you're just obsessed with this the same treat you're eating Over and over it's really going to affect your body in a negative way It's so funny in our in our space in the health and fitness and wellness space we have There's you know, of course how you work out how you eat and it's all around Fitness and diet it's all around like Sacrifice right like sacrifice, you know, if you don't eat the cake today You're you're going to be healthier and feel better tomorrow And if you sacrifice some time with exercise, you'll make more time yourself and you'll feel better But then there's this movement with sex, which is crazy to me that the people don't see the parallels We're like, yeah, just open just be open have sex with everybody and they're wired to just bang everybody Yeah, and i'm like i'm like you don't see the different like you don't see it's the same thing like Sacrifice for the for for this much more valuable thing versus just indulging yourself all the time It's no different than somebody coming to you and saying, you know I'm 100 pounds overweight because I enjoy my life and eat whatever I want Are you really enjoying your life? Is that really bringing you value? And so it's it's funny to me in our space how people can be so Not consistent. I want to I want to ask you if you could go back and Give yourself advice so that the younger you who's uh about to get married. Okay So you've met jesco. You're about to get married. What's the single bit of advice would you give yourself About what you're about to head into Wow, that is a really good question I think the advice if I had to sit down with my 28 year old self about to get married Had no idea that I would have four boys Like in my mind, I thought we'd have two we have four which is a lot. It's crazy. There's twice as many as yeah Yeah, jim gaffigan's got this. Yeah, jim gaffigan's got this hilarious joke about having four kids He's like, you know having four kids is like Just imagine that you're drowning and then someone hands you a baby. That's what it's like That's brilliant. Yeah, so maybe I I would put that in there as the advice You know to bring a life jacket into that situation But no the advice that I would give myself Without a doubt is Do not Live a quiet life of desperation and solitude as a husband and as a father and as a man When you need help Fucking ask for it because you will need help At every corner at every turn you will need help and there will be every single part of you That won't want to ask for help because you you feel that you're going to look weak and vulnerable and that is So fucking untrue. It is the lie that we tell ourselves as men and fathers If I ask for help, I am weak if I ask for help It's it's a it's a stamp on me that I am not equipped that I'm not up to the job and that is Absolutely Not true. The other thing I would give myself advice on Is to have quality Friendships with other men and the and the most important word here is like-minded Men, you know, you we have we all have our guys that we hung out with in college You know the good old boys go out kick back a few beers And you talk about the same five things that we always talk about it is so important It it literally makes or breaks life as as fathers and men that we do not live alone that you You expose yourself to men that have the same like-minded The same goals the same like-mindedness that you do this the same strategies to Live a fulfilling life with purpose with your family with your wife with what you do for a living most importantly to Men that will challenge you that will challenge your thinking You know because a lot of times and you guys deal with this People have to get out of their own way We are at times our biggest obstacle But if you could just for for you guys and what you do You know you you give people your clients people to work with you a tap on the shoulder say Don't keep going straight go that way because it's going to be much more effective much more efficient You're going to get the results that you want. It's the same thing with men. That's the advice I'd give myself Excellent excellent. Well, yeah, I think you're doing a good thing with your with your podcast and your show and Looking ahead anything any goals for the future for what you're doing? Yeah, so as I as I look ahead, uh, you know, I will be doing this full time, you know, and uh, you know the podcast and and the mission and Uh, you know our goal is to my goal is to help as as many men Live these fulfilling purposeful lives as possible. Excellent. Excellent. Well, thanks for coming on the show brother. Thank you Thank you for listening to mine pump if your goal is to build and shape your body Dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance. 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