 Live from Las Vegas, Nevada, it's The Cube, covering Knowledge 15, brought to you by ServiceNow. Welcome to the events and I strike the sibling noise. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Dave Vellante, our next guest, Mike Sill, SVP of Global Steered Services at Becketon Dickinson. Welcome to The Cube. Thank you, great to be here. So we're here at ServiceNow's No15 event and all the talk about transformation, everything is a service, speaks to the whole cloud. So I gotta get your take on what's going on in the industry right now. Are people really building out these shared services, these cloud services? What is the trend? Is it more regroup, build out? How would you put all the action? Well, I think it's an interesting question. I would say that- First inning? First inning, yeah, second inning maybe. When you think about cloud services, all of us as individuals are using cloud services every day. I order from Amazon at least twice a day. Get deliveries twice a day. But beyond Amazon, almost everything you're using out on the web is already cloud-enabled cloud service. It's all cloud. Enterprise has been slow to adopt that. There's a variety of reasons, but slow no more is what's happening now. So I think that we're all getting comfortable as an enterprise using these things called clouds. And I think we're adopting as quickly as possible. So that's what's going on right now. Just a little background on your role and your organization. What do you guys do? And then we'll go into some questions. Okay. I'm actually the guy responsible for the shared service capability in the company at BD. Shared service is really a place where we collect up a lot of services that may have been done in many, many places around the company, kind of small groups of people. We tend to collect them up and put them in a single location so we can drive process efficiency and consistency. You could imagine a team of people all over the world trying to execute a certain process, but they're so dispersed around the world, it's very difficult to know what people are doing. So bringing it all together helps us kind of drive a process understanding, a process efficiency. You guys make medical equipment, right? We do make medical equipment. Talk a little bit more about your business because I've got a follow-up question. So we're about a 12 billion dollar medical equipment provider. We build our own, we manufacture our own. Bechton has been in business for 125 years, so they've been around a very long time. They just acquired the company that I came from called CareFusion. CareFusion was a spin-off of Cardinal Health. That was, again, about a 12 billion dollar transaction and it just closed about 30 days ago. So we're both in the medical device business and we're really interested in patient health and safety primarily. So people getting instrumented, the digitization of technologies. I mean, obviously we know more is law well, but there's all kinds of new software and mobile technologies coming into everyday, consumer businesses. How is that affecting your industry and how is the technology changing? And then consequently, what does that mean for service delivery? I think it's really interesting. I think when I look at our business, we are exactly the picture that I think Frank was talking about this morning in the opening dialogue. You guys saw that conversation really around beautiful outside building, but look what's inside. I don't know, maybe it wasn't Frank, but it was one of the guys. That was Frank. And so- All the cube inside. Exactly, I think our building is even a little bit nicer on the outside than that building, but inside we still are sort of in the stone age or at least in the 90s with how we're processing information, right? And so I think that the cloud and mobile and social is now allowing us to lift up some of these old email workflow paper processes into something that is more manageable and therefore, measurable and manageable, I guess is the way you put it, measurable and manageable. So for the first time, I think all the stars are starting to come together and our have come together. And now I think it's sort of safe to do this and very exciting to do this. So what's the mandate internally also? They don't say, hey, we're in stone age, they're saying, but they say, look, we gotta modernize. What's the mandate around modernization? Well, I think there's two mandates or maybe three mandates. One is just the scalability that we need to compete in the world. And what world are we in? We're in a very different world than we were, I would say even 10 years ago. You'd never heard of the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare. All the governments weren't being bankrupted by aging populations that require more healthcare. So we have to bend the curve. We have to bend the cost curve of healthcare is what we really must do as an industry. So we're bringing S-curves from other industries into our industry. And so that means that some of the same techniques that were used in high tech and companies like Amazon and others, as we mentioned before, we're trying to apply in our industry to get scale and to be able to compete and win. So there's really, it's no different than competing and winning, that's the fundamental. And I think that, like I said, the stars are all aligned right now. Maybe 10 years ago they weren't aligned. And that's a direct result of the Affordable Care Act, things like meaningful use, technology? All that's trying to bend the curve. That's what it's trying to do because governments are looking and going, whoa, we don't have this much money. And we used to because we didn't have as many people needing this much service. But as people age, we're all going to need unfortunately this much service. So the challenge to our industry is how do we bend that curve? The ones that can bend it the best, still delivering high quality care at a low price, right, are going to win. You talk about bending the curve because our health costs are increasing at a very rapid rate. Yeah, have certainly have been before the last two years. But the whole industry is responded as it should. And now it's really a who can do it best, right? So what's under the hood? So shared services, how to take us through being the life of the innovation strategy, collapse people together, invest dollars in new apps, in this term microservices that pop trend in Silicon Valley right now, around apps and mobile. So if you look at how services are existing today inside the company, there's a lot of paper, there's a lot of paper flowing around, even though we've collapsed things together, if you look at the process, there's a lot of steps in the process that are not really useful. And what we do as an organization, we actually have a couple of partner organizations, is first thing we do is collapse it where we can see it in one place. The second we do is map that process and try to understand, is every step here useful? Do we need all these steps? Examples can be as simple as just, why do we need that approval? It's 100% approved every time. Nobody's ever rejected it. Why keep it? And you say, well, how much can that cost? That approval may cost you 20, 30 cents per. If you do a million of those a year, it's real money, right? So bring in those processes together and then working to lean them out so that at the end of the day, we have a much more streamlined process. Go back to the Amazon conversation I talked before. Have you ever talked to anybody at Amazon? No. Have you ever bought anything at Amazon? Yes. Yeah, every day, right? We use both services, too. And you think, gosh, I've bought all these things at Amazon, you'll never call. In our business, we still touch probably 60% of the orders that come in for some reason. Why? I mean, Uber and Amazon are great examples of what it should look like, right? Exactly. That's the definition of a service. It's a service that has a provider, a requester, a manager, and approval. That's a bunch of automation in between. And a whole bunch of automation in the middle. And once you start that, you can just keep adding and adding and adding to that to get more and more sophisticated services. So what's the playbook? Consolidate, get that? Hiring new people? How about new talent, developers? It's really amazing. It seems like there's, when I look at my organization, I've got guys that are writing lotus notes that are just eating up, eating up service now. They're like going, yeah, we're waiting for somebody who could give us a platform that we can do something with. So they feel empowered, right? And then of course, all the young people, they just sort of come out of school like automatically knowing how to, well, yeah, if I wrote it, it worked like that. And it does. So there's not a whole lot of learning curve there, right? So we saw it this morning a little bit on that. It's not super complicated to build very effective services. And microservice is even faster, right? Two clicks. What's the future of IT to enable this? What you're basically pointing to is transfer the shift from old to new. Whether it's people, process, and money, whatever. But what's the enablement in IT? What specifically do you see as the key enablement? Technology, process, business? I think it's a combination. You know, I was going through a little list there trying to think about what are the big drivers for successful services? You have to have the stars aligned. You have to have a process understanding. So this end-to-end process, otherwise little point solution process don't yield very much, right? End-to-end is the thing that delivers something to the organization of value. In other words, if you think about a manufacturing line, you can have this beautifully streamlined manufacturing line except this one step in the middle that's broken, right? If that step is broken, no matter what you do to the rest of the steps, that's your constraint, that's your bottleneck unless you address it. No good. So end-to-end modeling is very important to understand and get the leverage and value, right? So it's operations management kind of philosophy. That's definitely one. Then in order to do that, you need to be able to really measure and manage that process. So you need some technology to do that effectively, especially at scale, right? And in third, I think the most important element that we should always walk away from on the services side is services about people. It's about people first. Machines don't need too much help. They already know how to talk to each other. It's really about people and getting back to, how can I build something that's going to help this person get what they need, right? And so we can't overlook that. It's not just about people. And the consumer aspects these days with elegance and user interface plays into it too. You talk about the people piece, right? That has to be a component. Yeah, I mean user experience is very critical. I think it's the reason one click to order again to Amazon is the deal. I love it, one click. So while we're walking through our organization, we're thinking user first, what's it going to feel like to use this? Because if people don't use it, it doesn't matter what you do. So what's your service now journey look like? You take us back to when you first started. Yeah, that's a long time ago. So I think I started just before Lutty started. No, it's just a little joke. So I was customer 27. I think I know that number. At least that's what they tell me. Customer 27, we were working at a company. I was CIO at a company called ResMed in town, a great company. And we were replacing our IT service desk. That was as simple as it was. And we met up with the service now guys locally. They were a local company. So it's almost like drinking the local beer. We said, you know what? We like these guys, they can surf. They know what they're doing. So let's look at their platform. Okay, we like that. Okay, we just decided to go with it. So it was not a big RFP. It was like, that looks right, we're doing it. And it was a really good decision. And sometimes you get really lucky with those kind of things. So we did. When I left there about five or six years later, I went to Carefusion. And of course, I was really using the full platform at that time. And that was like three years ago. Did you bring in, who is now, a new opportunity? Yes, we brought that straight across. And IT is a service. And it really changed our lives at Carefusion on the ITSM platform. We use it in the end today. They're using it, I would call it the ERP for IT. I literally would call it that. Was that a condition of your employment? Not a condition, but it was a fate of complete. Because I was sold already and we were doing that, right? So. You were used to it too. Yeah, and we had, you know, there's data. And you have data and it's working well. It's easy to just take it to the next step, right? So that's what we did there. And then now that BD's come in, now we're taking it to the next level up, which is going to be the shared service. We're hoping and praying we get that done. Okay, so BD was not a service now? They're not a service now, okay. Today, you know, we're working through all those pieces, but I'm an advocate. So single CMDB sounds great. Makes a lot of sense. But if you have a $12 billion organization, merger of a couple of large organizations, can you get there? It's a big challenge. It won't go there overnight, but I think eventually we will get there. And there's just a lot of value in that. There's a lot of value in a single. But so why, I talked to some customers and sometimes there's friction. And then maybe it's organizational, maybe it's politics, I don't know, but you describe that and how do you get through that? Well, a long time ago, because I've been in this business a long time, I talked about the OSI stack. And they know what the OSI stack is? Well, do we know? The OSI stack, right? But that's layer one through seven. I mean, you get to layer eight, nine and 10, you know, religion, money, politics, right? That's layer eight, nine and 10 on the stack. And so every new opportunity one goes to, one has to figure out layer eight, nine and 10. And so we'll make our way through that. I think that, again, data matters. And we have a lot of data at CureFusion, a lot of data. Let me talk about that for a second. Because I know data always gets on that, bit generous, come on, big data. Come on, big data, have the data to get the quantification to show the benefits, right? So data's been collected. So what are some of the data points that you acquire that you put under your wing, if you will, from your previous experiences in service management, most of the last months or so it's bad. Like, you know, for the folks out there that are looking at transforming. You're talking business impact, right? Yeah, just is it, well, is it, is it PKI's on the business side? I won't even get really sophisticated. I would just say that being able to show people at the executive table, what is IT doing for us? Don't even have to cost it perfectly. What's it doing for us to know? Just what are you doing for us? They're just being able to see what it is that we're doing. IT guys get that question. That's probably really important, right? The second thing is we've been using the demand module and the project module for a while. And the demand and project module allowed us to run a governance process that BD has adopted, which I thought was really exciting, right? Because they said, hey, well, you guys actually have something here where you're bringing it all together, power of one platform. We can see what everybody's doing. We can actually not have the left hand and the right hand fighting each other. So we're starting to move into that direction as well with BD. And that's the radar on what's going on. So you can see the skirmishes, if you will, or the goodness happening in the organization. Yeah, and we're talking about forward stuff. We're talking about we're gonna go and make some investments. I'm not going to use the word aligned. Are they all sort of in the same direction or some orthogonal? We shouldn't be doing those because we're not going to get anywhere. We're going to fight each other, right? So, and not even know it, perhaps, right? You're talking about demand and project. So we're going to have better visibility on what's going on. But companies in that business have always sort of marketed themselves as 360 degree view of the business or the project portfolio, demand management, get control of your project. What's different? You know, it's all hard. There's nothing easy about it. I think that when the technology is right in front of you and you can see somebody else doing it and then you acquire the somebody else doing it, makes it a lot easier to believe you could do it too, right? So I don't think it's no secret sauce. I just think that in this particular case, we have a good technology platform. It's straightforward to use it. And somebody that we just acquired is using it. So how hard can that be? You know, you guys do an app development inside of the platform? I wouldn't say we're doing a lot of app development. And we are beginning to do, I'll call it workflow development and in a small app development, but not in a big way yet. We're close. And that's our next big step. So something you want to do. Oh, we want to do it. We totally want to do it. And that's where we're trying to go. I mean, I have a lot of debate with people that talk about what is an app? You know, is a task an app? Or do you have to be, you know, because service now will deal with task like there's nothing to do. Is that a service or is it an app? Yeah, it's just, it's a task even. It's even smaller, right? So we're always wrapping around the axle a little bit on what exactly is the right nomenclature. But I think we're doing a lot of that, a lot of that, especially in the ITSM space. And I think we're going to do a whole bunch more when we get to the ESM side, which is right in front of us. How does that change the way in which you approach development, service development, app development, task development in terms of skill sets? Well, I think it, I don't know, I don't want to say it. I think it puts a bigger skill set emphasis on user experience and a lot less on the technology. The technology's available to build things quickly and to assemble things. But to get it aligned with how it's going to be used, that's the secret sauce. That's always the secret sauce. I go back to Steve Jobs, you know, talking about how wide can the iPhone be? Well, no wider than his thumb can reach, right? Or something like that. I think the technology side is helping us a lot with the skills, but the skills are shifting to soft, more soft on the, you know, sort of the UE side, almost the marketing side, almost the process side. And I think the technology's pretty directly available. And how does mobile fit into that? Hopefully it fits in great. I know I'm going to make some announcements here. I don't know what's coming from ServiceNow, but I'm hoping in the next year we get native instead of the HTML5. And I think that'll be really cool. And I think there's, I don't know what the word is on that on the street, but I don't have any insight, but that's what I think. Why does that appeal to you? Just so you can take advantage of it? It's all user experience, you know? It's user experience. It's hard to native it at, because you have a great functionality, but you miss one little interaction. Then it's non-native. Yeah. And it's so hard with the phone factor. Yes. But it's what everyone wants. I know it. I know it. We do too. You know, we're doing okay with HTML5, and we're all using, you know, parts of it today, but I think the ability to be native is going to make it even easier. It makes the buttons bigger and more, you know, the problem I have with web responses is sometimes the flex don't fit for me. That's right. So critical success factors. So the folks out there who have maybe gone with the competitor service now, and or have legacy, huge issue, legacy. How do you deal with that? Because you mentioned stacks, eight, nine, and 10 layers of the stack. That's a lot of the day in, money and also politics, religion and legacy. Technology, religion is what I was talking about. You know, I think it all starts and ends with, you know, are you trying to manage costs out of what you have today? Are you trying to deliver something for the future? Right? So where is that platform to evolve on? If you look in your bag of tricks and you don't have a platform to evolve on that you know is going to be growing and enabling, you're playing with yesterday's, you know, toys. You don't have the basic capability. There's no reason to try to, you know, sort of beat a dead horse. You know, so at some point you have to jump, right? And so I think finally the stars are aligned. I said earlier that, you know, service begins and ends with people, right? So you got to get the right team that's leaning in. The team being, you know, the people that you're counting on to build this vision and execute it for you, right? So you got to have a little bit of that. You got to have some top leadership. I'm going to talk about service now, not ITSM, but service. You got to have the top leadership of the company mentioning every chance they can, right? We're doing these services transformation and getting value from them and look what we're doing with it, right? So usually what happens in companies today, the guys that just did the new patented something or walking across the stage, the sales guys are, you know, making it rain and all this, and they get all these awards and stuff. You know, and the guys that are like grinding out in the trenches trying to come up with a few dollars of savings and be more efficient, they don't really get talked about too much, right? So having that CFO, that CEO, that whole leadership team, every time they're giving out the big awards, reach back and say, and it wouldn't be possible if we weren't transforming the services side of this business, creating the money to invest in these new technologies or these new go-to-market strategies. So really, really important for the hearts and minds of people who are grinding it out, right? And trying to transform what used to work fine for us, not so much anymore, right? So we're having to move our cheese a little bit. And then I think the last thing I'd say is, somebody said it earlier today, the single source of truth. A lot of the legacy stuff we're looking at and using don't have single source of truth, right? It's 6,000 SharePoint sites. They've promised that for you for decades. How can you make any sense of that, right? So I think single source of truth can't be understated. And then finally, what I like to think about in the services world is we want to shrink the distance between people and what they're doing. So think about the next nearest neighbor. I want everybody in my shared service team and everybody in the company to be thinking about what work is somebody handing me and how much friction is around that? What work am I handing somebody else? What friction is around that? Don't think about end to end and to make your mind warp sometimes. Just get the next nearest neighbor a little bit more efficient. First hop. First hop, first hop. There we go. And trust. And trust, right. And trust. Trust is good, I like people. Well, I really appreciate you spending time with us here in theCUBE. We have the final question, final word. Quickly share your performance metrics in the future. 10 years now down the road, what's your vision for the kind of data that we'll be gathering to show not only what IT's doing, what's next? So I will predict that in 10 years we won't have any IT metrics at all because we won't need them, right? We will be so good at providing services, right? They'll all be, I mean, how many metrics do you get from Amazon? None. They ever share with you? None. No, they ship it before you order it, right? The water comes in, out through the faucet, it works. So the answer is the data's going to be very valuable, but not to the customer, right? It's going to be inside and we're going to be doing things with data we've never dreamed of. So that's what I think. So the idea of metrics, you can forget about it. Outcomes. Outcomes. Business metrics. That's it. All right, Mike Seale, Senior Vice President, Global Shared Services with Becvon Dixon. This is theCUBE. Bringing the data sharing that with you. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellanti. We'll be right back. Live in Las Vegas, service now, $115. Hashtag, no 15. This is theCUBE. We'll be right back after this short break.