 by Dale, this is Community Matters on Thick Tech Hawaii. We're talking about tech days of spring, tech days of spring at UH. And this is different than tech days of fall last year. So it looks like we have at least two tech days programs every year, a multitude of career fairs in Manoa. And it's the intersection of the university's offerings, training in technology and related fields with the business community. And I would say the business community is not just the local business community, it includes the military community and it includes the mainland business community, who knows what, with Alan Ito and he runs this fair. He's, what's your title Alan at university? Yeah, it's kind of a long cumbersome title. It's IT workforce development and regulated policy lead. Welcome to the show. Thank you, thanks Jay. You're the perfect guy to organize these fairs because you have a lifetime in industry and more than that, you have a lifetime in technology and industry. Can you talk about it? Sure, let's see. I'm a graduate of the university of Hawaii. I got both my undergrad degree. My undergrad is actually in math because when I went to school, there wasn't yet an ICS or information computer science degree that you could get. It wasn't a major. And then I have an MBA from the University of Hawaii also. I started off my career working at the UH doing research. So I used the computer to do some statistical analysis. Wanted to get into industry. So I spent a bit of time at Hawaiian Electric. I joined KPMG, which is an accounting consulting firm. I was with them for a while. I was at St. Francis healthcare system when St. Francis had the two hospitals. I was a chief information officer for them. I did a startup, spent about 10 years in a startup working with healthcare data. I worked with the Hawaii Health Information Exchange starting up their regional extension center. I was CIO for the state hospital system, I was CIO for Team Praxis. Then my last student in industry was information security officer for Hawaii Pacific Health, which is a very, very big organization, which of all healthcare organizations is heavily dependent on computers and computer processing and programming and so forth. So you're the perfect guy for this. You have a foot in every camp, it seems like. So tell us about the program. What is the tech days program about? Where is it? How does it work? What's your role in it? Sure. Yeah, so the tech days, and right now it's tech days of spring and you're right. It actually started in 2023 with tech days of spring 2023, then we have tech days of fall 2023 and now in tech days of spring 2024. And it came together as a way to try to put some focused attention on opportunities and technology for our local students and residents. And the way it started out was we were going to have a career fair over at UH and there was another group that was doing a talk story with tech pros. This was Thrive High. So we got together and we said, wow, we're doing it at about the same time. Wouldn't it make sense to try to come together and market it and do it together? One of the reasons was to again, put focused attention on technology as a good career for our next generation. But it was also to try to alleviate all these different asks going to industry. I'm not sure now, but I was involved with a group called the CIO Council of Hawaii, which is a group of IT leaders. And we always talked about, yeah, it's really hard because we get asked from this place and then we get asked from here and is it the same thing or is it two different organizations? So we thought if we could somehow coordinate our efforts, so industry could go to one place, get information about the different events, sign up in one place. It would also help make it easier for them. So that's how tech days started. And then it kind of grew organically as people had different events. And they say, yeah, sure, we'll put it under the tech days umbrella. So while the University of Hawaii system and the Chamber of Commerce, Hawaii are the primary sponsors, there's a number of different organizations involved in putting on tech days. Each organization kind of runs their own event, but we publicize it under the tech days umbrella. And we have a website where industry can go and all the information is at one website. All right, so yeah, I wanna talk about challenges that come to mind. Number one is the state has been up and down on developing a tech industry since John Burns, who originally had the idea to do that. And every governor since then to various degrees has tried to do that, but we still don't have a, what you would call a robust tech industry in town. And the last, what do you wanna call a legislative statement on it, was in 2010, where Linda Lingo killed the tech tax credit back to 21. And so, I remember lots of programs at the legislature, which celebrated tech and tech companies in Hawaii, but not recently. And then I wonder where we are in terms of developing a tech industry that will attract attention, that will keep our students here after they graduate, and that will attract capital. What's the extent of that industry now? You've been looking at it from both sides of the coin. What are your thoughts? So, I think when we talk about a tech industry per se, the use of technology is ubiquitous now. Everyone uses technology. So it's difficult to say a tech industry where we have companies that are doing software development or companies that are hosting company, but if you look at any organization, they use technology. I'm gonna say some of our largest employers for people in technology are not tech company, or you wouldn't think of them as tech companies. An example would be my former employee, Hawaii Pacific Health. Healthcare makes wide use of technology in a lot of different areas, not just in the administrative areas, but also in providing patient care. It's allowed the process to be a lot more efficient, higher quality, and if you look at a bank, same thing, banks are a heavy user of technology. Hawaiian Airlines, as an example, the airlines, they use technology. So when we talk about a tech industry, I don't think we can necessarily see, well, we have this company, X, Y, Z, and they're a technology company because they do software development. And we do have companies like that. We have companies that specialize in working with software or networks or helping other companies, run things in the cloud. We have managed service providers that provide tech support to small and mid-sized businesses. So we do have those companies also, but I would say probably some of our largest employers in tech are not called technology companies. Yeah, you make me think of the Manoa Innovation Center a few years ago. It was on a strange kind of reservation interest by the university, and it had its own independent existence for 20 years or so, and then the university took it back. But in that building in Manoa, there were a lot of these smaller tech companies developing one product, one service, and trying to hit it big time. I don't know if that's still the case, and I think you're absolutely right. I mean, to wit the university itself, I'm sure you have a computer science department and all that, but at the end of the day, every department has its own technology people. You wanna have some data processing, so the faculty in that department with its graduate students and all, they developed data processing. They don't need to have a separate computer science department because they all do it in-house. Everybody uses technology. Everybody can go and learn and get the software and so forth. So I totally agree with you. And so the answer then is my second challenge. My second challenge is these companies, the big ones, they come to town, they attend various career exposition, speed dating arrangements and what have you, and they hire graduates of UH and other schools. And next thing you know is they're moving that graduate from their branch here in Hawaii to somewhere on the mainland. And so instead of having the benefit for our economy, we train the individual, put them through school or her, and then we wind up losing them to another branch of that same company on the mainland. Your thoughts? I'm sure that still happens, but one of the things that the pandemic really showed is that people could work remotely using technology. So I don't know to what degree, and you hear now people saying, well, we want our employees back in the office, but I know of many instances where people worked for a mainland company from Hawaii, but they were working remotely. And I think that's still the case. You know, I think it makes it more challenging for our local companies, because now when they're trying to hire people or try to keep people, they're not just competing with other local companies, they are oftentimes competing with mainland companies who are telling people, you know, live in Hawaii, but work for us remotely, maybe work West Coast time, I think they have to make some time adjustments, but otherwise, enjoy your life in Hawaii, and we'll pay you commensurate wages as what we're paying our mainland employees. So I think that that's probably more of the challenge that we'll be seeing. Although I have heard still, I know of somebody who was with a company for 20 years, you know, good career, moved to the mainland because he was offered, I think like 25% more, okay? Yeah, well, you know, what comes to my mind when you say that is the Akamai student and young employee of a tech company maybe gets his job through, you know, the tech days program, when they try to move him, he can say no, he can just say no, and he can look around for a job here, and I don't know the exact state of the law, but the covenant not to compete problem I think has been largely resolved here in Hawaii, and it's being resolved on the mainland too, there's some national movement to do away with confidence not to compete. So the tech company that tries to move him doesn't have that much leverage. If he's willing to take a Hawaii salary and move a fancy salary at Silicon Valley, he can just say no, and I think there's a lot of people graduate UH and otherwise who actually would do that because they're committed to paying it forward, they're committed to participating in the community and in the industry, your thoughts? Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. There are, there is, there's a group of young people in Hawaii who I think really want to try to help this next generation, you know, to stay and live in Hawaii, but yet, you know, do well financially, you know, have a decent wage, but still stay in Hawaii, and the other thing I think is important to mention is, you know, our local companies are doing some interesting work in technology, you know, and that's part of what we're trying to do with these tech days of spring or fall is trying to inform students and not just our university students, but also the younger students in K-12 of some of the interesting things being done in the state by, you know, our local companies. I, there's another program that I'm involved with called LeapStart and I had an employer tell me, you know, it's a travesty that these students don't know what we're doing in technology in Hawaii and it's a travesty that we don't necessarily understand how good the students here in Hawaii are. Let's talk about the students for a minute. What kind of offerings can you provide to recruiters who come around and try to recruit students from UH? And it comes to mind, the computer science department, also all the sciences, I suppose, the engineering department for sure, because they've been involved in this kind of speed-dating programs for a long time, I think. I think they still do that. Yeah, they do. They have a really good effective program. And then, of course, there's the Scheidler College of Business, which talks about entrepreneurs. I mean, if you wanted to make some money, you want to get into a fast-moving, you know, sector, like tech, that would be a good thing to study and it would be a good student to propose to a recruiter. But where are they coming from in the university? Yeah, I mean, from UH Mandela, you're right. It's ICS program. It's the engineering program. And then also Scheidler has an MIS Management Information Systems Program, which is computers, but more with a business bent to it. Those would be the three main areas. But to your point, there's also marketing students, for example, in Scheidler, that could double major marketing and MIS. Because marketing now, there's a lot of data being used, a lot of data analytics that drive marketing programs. A lot of the marketing is happening online now. So if you had a knowledge of computers and marketing, that's a pretty good skill. And we're seeing that I participate in some professional interaction nights and I went to the marketing pin night. And there are quite a few double majors, marketing and MIS. But we also have all of our community colleges that have IT programs in different areas. We have UH West O'ahu, that has a really good cybersecurity and assurance program in the security privacy area. So all of our campuses have different programs geared towards information technology, tech, cybersecurity. What about filmmaking? Filmmaking the Academy of Creative Media, I think out at UH West O'ahu, that's another area. And we actually have students in that LeapStart program I mentioned, that came from that program and we have some placed right now doing some internships. Well, in the beginning to get the idea, you know that the Tech Days program is overarching. It's the umbrella. And you're accepting enough, loose enough to bring all of these other possibilities under that umbrella. So that I don't have to go traipsing around from one career program to another. I can just take a look at Tech Days and find all kinds of possibilities for me there. Is that your direction? Yeah, I mean, we want to, you know, again, just build awareness. So as a students have an awareness of what's out there and without having, like you said, to go to some very specific programs. The other one that I want to mention is intelligence. Our first fair coming up this Friday is careers in tech and intelligence. So in the intelligence field, it includes a social sciences, it includes language. And we have, you know, the NSA and other employers from the government, you know, who are participating on Friday. Yeah, I know one fellow who was interested in tech at UH and he always, from the time he was in swaddling clothes, he wanted to be in the CIA. And he studied what he thought was appropriate for that and he got into the CIA and he works for the CIA today. I'm not going to tell you his name if you don't mind. But, you know, there's some very exciting jobs in intelligence and for that matter, you know, state department diplomacy jobs and law enforcement at the federal level and also at the state level. So there's some pretty sexy jobs out there that require this kind of mindset. So, and what kind of mindset is it though, actually, Alan? You know, what should I be thinking about? What should I be studying? How should I direct my brain cells if I want to have an effective time and get an effective job at tech day? Yeah, you know, I'm glad you brought up the mindset, you know, because, you know, as we've been talking about technology is changing and morphing so rapidly, you know, what the specific technologies people are learning today in school will probably be different five years from now. But it's developing that mindset. You know, I think another term is like computational thinking, you know, where you look at a problem and you can break a big problem down into the component parts and then figure out, you know, how to solve the component parts and how things work, you know, in terms of a flow, say, of information, you know, that's the mindset you need and it's not so much technology, but it's a way of looking at a problem and how do you break down that problem into parts and solve it? You know, critical thinking is, you know, what, you know, what I know I'm personally trying to promote, you know, and that's something you can start teaching in K to 12 and again, it's not technology specific, but by doing, for example, like programming, we're doing something in technology. You learn that because to program something, you need to break it down into something that you can know what the steps are, you know, what steps follow, what, you know, if then, you know, decisions that have to be made. So it helps develop that thinking. Now, isn't that true? I think you may be referring to Stanford's design thinking where he comes to you and says, I want to do this and you say to your client, no, you don't want to do this, you want to do that and you help him, you know, actually establish the mission. But speaking of missions, where does the military fit in all of this? I recall at one point the military was sending recruiters from the East Coast, some of the big bases on the East Coast of Hawaii, because they really needed to have people who worked for all the military units and facilities out here and they couldn't find them. So they sent the recruiters out from there to here in order to recruit them. What role does the military play in the program? You know, I think the military is a large employer. So Department of Defense is a large employer, potentially of our students. And, you know, especially with the increased focus on the whole Indo-Pacific region, you know, there's not, and not just the military, but the contractors support the military, you know, are in Hawaii. And yeah, it's no secret that they're in Hawaii and they're looking for people with the right backgrounds. So I, we have, there's a group that's part of Tech Days of Spring. So one, the Hawaii Defense Alliance is one of the overall co-sponsors and with Hawaii Defense Alliance, there's a group called 3PI, a Pacific Intelligence Innovation Initiative. So they're, you know, part of this whole effort. I'd like to talk about the, one other aspect of this intersection that is business and I guess military is another leg in the stool and technology of various kinds and orientations in the university. You know, one of the things politically that has surfaced over the last couple of years, and for that matter, during the Trump administration, that we have an electorate that's not prepared. We have an electorate that doesn't understand the Constitution, doesn't understand the duties of the citizen to, you know, to appreciate, to analyze, to avoid disinformation and political misinformation. And, you know, I'm a little concerned that if you go through a pure technology science track at UH or elsewhere, maybe you're not skilled in your civic responsibilities. Where does that fit here? Because we want a generation that will do critical thinking, but not only in science, in social science. Where does that fit? You know, I think if you look at a four year, so let's say you go for a four year degree at the university or, you know, at any four year program, you are going to get, you know, because it's not just going to focus on the science aspects, right? You take other subjects as a core, you know? So I think that helps provide some of that, but it gets back again to the critical thinking. They need to apply that not just to their job, but to everything, right? To everything in life, you know, how you look at life. I had an employer tell me that they liked the four year program. So, you know, we're having discussions of, is it okay to just hire somebody or can somebody right out of high school get a certificate and get a job in tech? You know, but an employer told me, you know, we like to have people from the four year programs. One, it shows us that they have the wherewithal to complete the program, right? But then secondly, because they have a more well-rounded education and their thinking ability is developed more than someone who didn't go through those four years. And that's why they said, you know, when we look at hiring people, and this was about two years ago now, so they may have changed, but they said, when we look at hiring people, you know, we tend to look at the four year degree individuals. Sure, I mean, if I were at the recruiting end of that, that is the tech days process. And I looked at a resume, I looked at some writing samples, I looked at, you know, an interview. And I would make sure, just just me then, I would make sure that we included some evaluation of whether this individual was a well-rounded, educated person. And I think one of the problems is, you know, right now politics is so complex. But I would say to this person, tell me what you think about the future of the country. Tell me what you think about democracy. Tell me what you think about how the government works. Now, if he said, I'm sorry, I don't know that. I haven't studied that. I can't speak to that. I'm very shy. Then I would be a little concerned that this is not the person I'm seeking. Yeah, no, I would agree. I mean, that would be a good challenge question. One of the things that employers have told us is that they're not necessarily looking for the best technologies in an area, but they're looking for people who can't think, who can communicate well, who can work with other people. You know, because no longer is it the case where, you know, you're a technologist and you just go heads down on the computer and not work with anyone else. So they're looking for more of those types of skills. I don't know what you call it, 21st century skills, professional skills, but, you know, so that's what employers are looking for. They're looking for people, I think, who can't think and who can communicate well. So... Yeah, and you talk about thinking and collaborating and being part of a team. Yes. You know, we know, don't we, that the development of sophisticated technology, whether you're dedicated to that or whether it's for your company, which has a larger purpose, you can be working with teams. Yes. Every technology company now, and some technology companies, those teams are global. You may talk to different continents at different times of the day in order to have the benefit of global thinking. So that would also be part of my interview. Wouldn't it be part of yours? Yes, yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, when I talk to people, I don't talk so much about the technology, but more about life skills and how they would approach things. You know, I think that's important, how they would approach something, a problem, if you're presented with that. So how does the market balance on this, Alan? Are there more applicants than we would like to see or that can be hired or less applicants? Are there more recruiting companies than we would like to see or less? How do you balance it? So everybody feels they're getting some real benefit out of this, you know, dating process, if you will. Yeah, you know, I think there's some, so what we're doing is we're working with an entry-level person, right? And I think in most organizations, that entry-level person will go into certain areas. And there's always exceptions, you know, where they might jump into not an entry level, but, you know, a higher-level position. But, you know, so when we look at the need overall, you know, there is a need for more tech people in general. I mean, everyone is saying that it's been published. You know, but I think when you look at the kinds of people, it may be that you have some entry-level, but we have to remember that companies need that mid-level manager or whatever to mentor the entry-level. If they don't have that mid-level, then, you know, it's going to be hard for them to bring in more entry-level because they have nobody to work with them. And especially with, you know, the baby boomers, I'm a baby boomer, you know, getting to the point where they're leaving the job market. You know, I think that's probably going to be a challenge, you know, because companies, you know, need the resources, but they need people with enough experience to be able to mentor and bring up those entry-level people coming into their employment. Yeah, it's hard because you've got to work both ends. You've got to lift all boats, so to speak. I'm reminded of a program that we did in the Hawaii Venture Capital Association back in the, in the odd years, involving one fellow who had been in the military and then he went to work for a hospitality company here in Hawaii. And his speech stuck in my brain. It's that hospitality is our strongest suit. And, you know, we have more experience. We have more boots on the ground with hospitality, running hotels and so forth than anything else. And of course, that's data. That's data processing. That's marketing data processing. That's also operational data processing. There's, you know, it's any problem you could think of could be better handled with data processing. I always say that. So what he said, and it sticks in my brain, was here we are sitting, you know, right next to Waikiki in the lap of the hospitality industry. We have to talk to those people and get them to understand that we can give them, you know, better technology, better programming, better results than anyone anywhere else because we live in this hospitality world. Are we doing that? What do we have to do to make the connection with hospitality? That's okay. So that's, I'm not familiar with the industry. So hard for me to say, but I do know that all of the hospitality companies, hotels have IT departments and they do things computerized. Can they be doing more? I'm not sure. I mean, I'm gonna guess, yeah, they can. But on the other end, taking people from hospitality and having them work in technology, when you come, it's that experience you have dealing with people, communicating with people, problem-solving with their guests, our skills that can be leveraged in the technology industry. So I know from that side, I've talked to companies and they said, yeah, we're interested in people from the hospitality industry because they have that skill set already and we don't have to teach it. And oftentimes that's something that's really hard to teach, you know, like, yeah. So, but I'm okay. Yeah. You know, one thing it strikes me is that we can talk to the hospitality and we can get closer to them and maybe even do something at the legislature to incentivize the connection. And I think it's probably also worth mentioning that, you know, my experience in the military was that if you were an aviator, you were special and you would have a chance of being an admiral, a better chance, okay? A ship driver was, you know, nearby, but not quite as, as perfect, as likely as an aviator, okay? The other thing is in these big companies, and I'm thinking of big companies, national companies that have their offices here in Hawaii. If you were a pencil pusher, if you were an accountant, if you knew how to make a spreadsheet, you had a better chance of becoming a senior officer or CEO, I could name names, we would all know. So I'm thinking in the future, as we evolve in the job market and in the way these corporations work, it seems to me that in a company which is heavily involved in data processing, the guy who understands the programming, who understands the connectivity between the various parts of the company through computers, through telecommunications and computers and the like, that person, if not now, then soon will have a better chance at becoming a senior officer. Not necessarily to do the scutwork of programming but to do the critical thinking at the senior level or CEO level, your thoughts? I would agree, I might be biased because of my background, but I agree that when you're, especially if you're like a director, a chief information officer in an organization, you have a whole view of the company because you need to understand the whole company and how it works for you to automate and computerize and put in systems in the company and to improve how the company can work with systems. And that gives you a really good broad view of the organization that could be leveraged to move up to like a CEO position. And David Lassner, I mean, David was the CIO of the UH system. Good example. Good example. So here we are and we wanna make this umbrella as wide and broad and effective as possible. It's a great place to be at the university and the university, a perfect venue for all of that, bring everyone in from both sides of the equation. And the question I put to you is, what can we, the community, including the government, do to help you make that umbrella bigger, more effective and make good careers for those graduates and build a, what do you wanna call it? Not, I'll change my way of putting this, not a tech industry, but a tech awareness, a tech element in our economy. We have to do that because our economy is better with more tech. I remember a bumper sticker back in the 90s which said, have you hugged your programmer today? Yeah. And I'm not advancing that idea, that's old news, but I'm wondering if you have any thoughts about what the community can do to help you in this project, in this day's project. Yeah, I would say engage with educators. And when I say educators, not just faculty at the university or universities, but also with your K-12 DOE educators, computer science, CTE educators, because the educators need to understand what technology is out there and how it's being used for them to be able to communicate to the students. And all of this is awareness, right? I mean, building awareness of the students, but to do that, if you communicate with the educators, it can help communicate that down. And then, I think for businesses to be open to doing internships, one of the things that we're, one of the feedback in one of the studies was that oftentimes the students who recently graduate have the technical knowledge, but they don't necessarily know how to apply that to solve problems in an organization. And the way you get that is by experience. So if more companies are open to doing internships, having students come in and working with them so they learn something, I think it will help them to eventually be good employees for companies in Hawaii. Well, Alan, we're here to help. And if you wanna present any of the people involved in these programs on any side of that coin, please let us know. Because I think part of this is to raise public awareness in general, that's what we do. And we care a lot about raising it in terms of technology. Alan Ito, University of Hawaii, organizing Tech Days of Spring at UH. Thank you so much for coming on and for helping us understand what is happening and what could happen. Thank you, Jay. And everyone, please attend the Tech Days of Spring events. Thank you. Thank you, Alan. Aloha. Bye.