 All right, hey, welcome back to insurance influencers. We find someone in freaking power influence in the industry and we bring them on the show to help you. And today, I got, you know what? And before I talk about my buddy here, the 69 Greek freak of marketing, okay? I'm not Greek, but okay. You know what? It's kind of, they're out there watching this, thinking, okay, Cody built a six million dollar lead generation company. He must be an absolute marketing baller, okay? Also, we've, you know, the conference we're scaling is now the largest independent insurance agent training conference for insurance agents in the industry, in the world really, very quickly. They have, you know, the number one YouTube channel and all this stuff. So you would think like, I'm just like a marketing legend of the insurance industry. However, I thought that till I met my good buddy Landon, okay, he's a marketing freaking baller. Well, thanks for saying that, man. A legend. I appreciate that. And I'm telling you, if you aren't working with us, you're missing out. Okay, so. Well, thanks for saying that, man. You got it, man. Dude, you're a, you are influencing the industry in the way that you are going about insurance marketing. Well, it's just different these days, I feel. I feel like there's a massive digital shift that's happening. Everybody that I know in the insurance industry is moving into digital in some form or fashion, whether it's a small percentage of their budget or a major percentage of the budget. We're talking to like, we're talking to no joke, like $100 million companies. Oh, bigger than that. Billion dollar companies every day and they are making massive shifts. It is. I mean, it's a big market shift that's happening and that's causing a lot of issues on Facebook specifically, because that's right now the lowest hanging fruit in the digital marketing space. But yeah, man. I mean, whenever I used to own an advertising agency that we did four million a year in management fees, we had no specialty though. So you were a client of mine. That's how we met in the first place. And the more the digital marketing world evolves, it's gonna be like the lawyer that has to specialize. The digital marketer has to specialize. I can't imagine, if I ever was to compete, if we were ever to compete on a digital marketing project with someone that didn't specialize in insurance, we will win 100% of the time. Oh, easy. It's totally different. Even when they do specialize insurance, we still freaking win. It's totally different. Insurance marketing is completely different than general marketing. And the reason is, is because insurance marketing is 100% based around leads, cost per lead, lead volume, lead quality. And really that's not the case for a lot of business industry specifically. Before we continued to dive in, I had an idea. Okay. If I'm them watching this already, I'm like, holy crap, I don't wanna talk to that dude. Okay. Correct? Yes, absolutely. And that's happening, correct? It is. Absolutely. So if they wanted to do that, is there like a link that we can add? There's a link. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're gonna add it. You're gonna click it. You're gonna schedule a free strategy session with Landon to talk about the struggles you're having, the problems and what we can do to fix it. Yeah, we'll just go through an unbiased sort of walkthrough of your digital marketing footprint and talk about your budget, talk about your results, whatever. I mean, we can do search and optimization, web development, social, whatever. On that note, how should we pivot? Because this interview and how your influence in the industry can go, because I'm interviewing you, can go a lot of different ways. Well, you mean for this call, this particular, what I feel like is interesting right now is search and optimization, really very interesting. The reason I think that's interesting is because one of the biggest things that I hear people say is how do I diversify my lead source from social? Because a lot of people are spending, you know, when it comes to their digital marketing budget, let's just say that's 20 to 30% of their overall marketing budget or 50, whatever. Most of that is going towards social. And the reason is because it's the easiest way to scoop up leads, right? But what's happening is digital marketing principles like search and optimization and good website and blogging and content creation, that's low hanging fruit. That's why you see Choice Mutual and some of these guys that are scooping up hundreds of policies a year. And all it is is a final expense producer that figured out SEO. And when you look at Boomer Benefits and you look at some of these websites that are getting thousands of clients a year through Legion on their website through content marketing, you realize that it's a low bar really in the interest industry. Most people are just scooping up the social leads but they don't know anything about search and optimization. That's what I think is interesting right now. And we seem to be, I'm noticing a trend of people coming to you saying, hey, we want to be on the cutting edge of getting thousands, if not tens of thousands of organic leads every year. Yeah, well, and that's doable. I mean, I can point you to websites that are not that innovative and large that are getting thousands of policies a year just because they've been doing SEO for a couple years. And it's not, search and optimization, the reason it's not taken hold in the insurance industry specifically is because it doesn't provide immediate results. Like social does, I mean, you do a social campaign will be generating X amount of leads in 48 hours. You know what I'm saying? With SEO, it takes time. So basically people a lot of times are hand to mouth but you can only do that for so long not to mention social is changing. Facebook's making it tougher with the privacy concerns. Totally. It's more expensive with AEP right now and also the holidays. I mean, our cost per leads are increasing so you want to be diversified really. Yeah, I made one mistake when I started this interview. What was that? You know what it was? What? I'm telling all myself. What do you mean? I just assumed that everyone that knows me knows you. It's true. Maybe they don't. They may not. Maybe they don't, right? So Landon McCarter. He has co-founder and partner with me in SecureAgent Marketing. Yes, sir. It's a marketing company that is working with at least the top three final expense call centers in the country. We know that for a fact. Yep. We're actually going, I forgot we're going to hear in about a couple of weeks I think to meet with a major insurance carrier that's doing billions a year in premium and they want us to help them with their marketing, which is strong, okay? Yeah, and multiple other IMOs that we work with or agents, field forces, whatever. Why marketing for you? To take it away from that and let them introduce, you know. We did jump ahead, didn't we? Yeah, I did, but you know. I assumed you were 8% I assumed you saw a lot of 1500 videos. Well, so why marketing? Why marketing for me? First off, I got my degree in marketing from Missouri State. So I've always been in sales, sales and marketing go hand in hand. You can't sell without leads. You can't get leads without marketing. So a good salesman has a good marketer in their pocket always. Or they are a good marketer. Like if we interviewed James Nevins yesterday, he's just a great salesman that understands marketing. Wouldn't you know? He's got a successful business, you know what I'm saying? It's like the people, marketing and sales skills are the two most important things in growing a large insurance business, I believe. Or maybe you would agree. Oh, dude, for real. So, you know. It's a secret sauce. I love marketing because I learned a long time ago and it doesn't always work out this way. But, you know, marketing is, if I could figure it away for you to give me a dollar and I can give you back two, you're gonna give me a lot of dollars. You know what I'm saying? Well, and even to add to that point, I've gotten to where I'm so confident in our marketing now that I just increased our budget for inbound lead flow this morning by about, nobody even knows this. My wife, Lauren, don't even know it. By about 120 grand a year. Okay. This morning. Okay. Because I'm so confident in our marketing and our processes and our systems. Well, you do, we do get about 250 to about 350 inbound leads a week of insurance agents contacting us for coaching leads, for marketing, whatever. Which you're gonna be talking about and sharing with people at your SEO masterclass. Yeah, yeah. You can prompt that. Was that December 4th? Yes, December 4th at 4 p.m. We'll do a link to that. Keith, don't forget to put a link in the description there. And even if they can't attend, they're gonna get the recording for life. That's true. So the point is, you need to be on that. If, and you know what? I'm gonna clarify a little bit. If you don't want thousands of passive leads a year for, without spending advertising dollars. Correct. Then this isn't for you. Yeah, well, what I'm gonna teach on that class, if that's what we're gonna go now, is there's, I'm gonna demystify search engine optimization because they're really, it's not as complex as it once was from a technical perspective. Meaning, you don't need to have an understanding of web development to know a bulk of what SEO actually is. Yeah, because it is super daunting. Well, you think about it. You think Google and they got the search engine robots that are gonna call your sites. They're looking at all these technical things. And yes, there is absolutely a component of technical SEO and on-page SEO and that's part of it. But there's also a major, what I call content first strategy. And I've done a video on content first SEO. And that's how you get results and I can show you over and over and over examples of the insurance industry that's content first SEO that just kills it. And so what I'm gonna do is break down, I'm gonna demystify SEO. I'm gonna teach how to actually, how to do it yourself for the most part and understand, I've always said this 100 times, what is North? I'm gonna teach you what North is on SEO so you kind of aren't getting led astray by the 199 social package that you saw that also does SEO and that's all that crap, but that's not North, I can promise you that. We see so many of those and you even said dude, we could sell them but we're not gonna deliver anything so what's the point? We're just gonna be taking people's money so that's not what we do. I will teach you how to make, if you can execute what I'm gonna say it's worth probably $800 a month in SEO. Wow. If you can implement, now that's the problem. $600, so that 397 ticket is gonna be worth about 96K over the next 10 years. Sure, yeah. And actually it's more because you're just saving the money in SEO costs but that doesn't mean that you're not picking up those additional thousands of leads for free. Exactly, that's not including the business that you close from leads. I mean I was looking at an analytics account of a search and optimization medicare site that we were doing and I think in one week they were getting like 14 like just passive leads through the site which they never got before and this particular agency that I'm working with I've looked at their Facebook feed and they were bragging that they wrote 38 medicare policies in two days between two guys. It's crazy. And it's all passive leads there was no like active marketing going, feeding that it was just websites and walk-ins and all that now they are they're an existing business so it's not like you can just start a medicare shop and get there. But you know how it goes, man. You know, you gotta build something and that's what SEO is, is building for the future. Did you always know you would, is it in your DNA, you know, like just to be such an influencer and a baller? Like where'd that come from? No, it's not. The, what I love is the, I appreciate you saying that. And you love, he loves what I do that, right? Really what I find is if you wanna be a good marketer, you gotta go with what's working. And I started in direct mail and then I evolved into digital. I still direct mail is great. Like I'm not sure, you know, whatever. There's still a lot of people that make a lot of money on direct mail but I found that digital. I think it's wonderful. I just don't happen to use any of it. Well, and it's just not as flexible. It's not as, you can't pivot. You can't adjust. You're like all in on certain budgets that it may or may not work. Whereas, you know, with digital you can kind of pivot quickly if you're starting to see things aren't working. So, but also just digital is the future. We all know that. And so not to mention more and more of the insurance industry is going towards phone sales, which is, you know, multi-state. Well, how do you, there's no way to reach multi-state audiences effectively unless you're gonna spend tons of money on TV and radio and you're not gonna do that direct mail. You're not mailing the state, you know what I'm saying? So, that's your options. Even the major players that you're helping and influencing now, as I keep using that word since that's the name of the show, are shifting. Well, just to give you an example. I mean, two days ago I met with the lead developer for one of the largest Medicare call centers. And we just collaborated and had fun, man. Like it's so, the industry's so big. Like it wasn't like my way is better than your way and your way is better than my way. So, let me show you how to do it right. It's like, no, no, no. What are you doing? Here's my videos. You bring up a good point. Some people have a guy. Some people have a marketing department. So, people have a marketing team, et cetera. And the good thing about you is that they don't, you're not coming in to change everything or replace everything. Replace the internal team. That's the last thing. You can actually help provide ideas and run alongside the team. It's difficult for, it is not advised to try and outsource all of your marketing to an independent company. All of the successful relationships that I have. There's a lead manager, a lead developer, a marketer, whatever, that I'm just being leaned on as another outside resource. Because Coach Pertz says it all the time, you got to have somebody outside of the picture frame to kind of see what's going on. And since we do about seven figures of ad spend a month in digital marketing and insurance industry, we learn a few things along the way. And so, we're not just working in this one space, this one industry, this one market. So we're leaned on quite a bit from a, what's going on in the industry perspective. And that adds, that alone, I know we have retainers built out for some of these clients right now that I know they're not keeping us on retainer because of the cost per lead that we're driving them because they could potentially do it themselves. It's the big ideas that we bring and the shifts that we were able to bring, manage the YouTube beta that we got in for one of our clients as well, that kind of stuff. Just kind of be able to bring a bigger picture. Cutting edge, man. Well, it really is. I don't know of anybody that's spending more per month on marketing in the insurance industry than us. I mean, maybe there is, but I don't know. How do you get to eight figures in management? Just grow the book, man, keep it going. It'll be there, the market share's there. What's one thing that, as an agent out there that's watching this, and let's say they have their own agency, their own team, their own office, what's some helpful tips to provide to them that are looking out and they're thinking, okay, this is daunting, I don't know what to do? Well, maybe it's this free strategy session. I'll make it easy, man. I'll make it super easy. You can't do anything without a marketing budget and a percentage of that budget is digital. If it's not, you're crazy, okay? So now you know how much meets on the bone, okay? So if you don't have a marketing budget, if you're just weaning it and trying to buy leads here and there, there's better ways to get leads that's more consistent, you know what I'm saying? What is it about that? Why do agents jump from vendor to vendor, thinking that the next person's gonna have the secret sauce? We have a joke in our staff where it's like, leads are heroin and insurance agents are heroin addicts. It's just like, I gotta get it, I gotta get my leads because at the end of the day, it's that important. It's their livelihood. If they don't have anybody to talk to, they don't have anybody to sell. And so what I think is interesting about insurance marketing is that there's this perception. All of us marketers are all using Facebook, okay? So what's the point of bouncing from one guy to the next and around and around and not learning anything? Why not work with people that you trust to execute a monthly strategy that you can learn from and adjust and pivot and grow and diversify? So that's one of the things that we try to do with our clients is kind of let the people that wanna bounce around and that's okay, that's okay. That's not a problem necessarily, but there's a better way to do it. And if you have a budget, then that'll get you there. Yeah, okay, on that note, budget. What kind of budget do they need? Depends on what you're trying to accomplish and how big you are, but in general, the way I try to back into budgets is, what's the amount of lead fill that we need and do we need to have short-term or long-term goals and then we allocate the budget that way. Even people that are jumping around and buying leads, would you say they have at least 1,000 bucks a mile? At least, yeah, always. Even little producers, you have to have people talk to. So you're buying leads from somewhere, the main lead sources that I see are tele-transfers, which are fine. I think things are getting cracked down. I see a lot of lawsuits coming down the pipe and a lot of issues there, but it's still a very valid way to get things done. I think a lot of people are bringing them overseas right now. It's kind of an industry thing that I'm seeing. But to me, that's a little bit of, whatever. Anyways, that's sketchy. You know what I mean? I'm not like, it just seems risky to me to have a big old operation in Costa Rica. I'm sure it's a good idea. I'm sure they ran their numbers, but I see the tele-sales leads, direct mail leads, or digital leads right now, or networking, growing your war market and all that. Would you agree? Is there something I'm missing? Oh, absolutely, no, no, no. Okay, so- What do you have people talk to? Well, they're all, if you're not spending $1,000 a month, then you're probably not growing your business. You're probably just working your war market and you're getting by and talking about how the market sucks and- Even if you aren't, you're spending it on a part-time color that's cold-calling, so you're spending it. You know what I mean? You're spending it. Are they, though? Are they- I don't know if anybody not spending a grand a month. I don't either, so on leads or something. And if you're not, the chance of you being a part of that at 2% is substantially larger and you're listening right now and you're like, I don't wanna be, you know, so. It is a big difference. When you talk to people, and I don't talk to anybody that's very successful insurance industry that doesn't have a healthy marketing budget period. Zero people. That's true. I mean, if you're trying to work your war market and do your networking thing only in one city and try and go to the B&Is and all that stuff, that's gonna get you so far, but you're not gonna be able to scale. You're not gonna be able to be a big time. What was it about insurance for you? Well, first off, I met you and I didn't really know. Honestly, I'll tell the story. So, but when I had my agency- They don't know this. When I had my agency, I told Cody this before. I always told my staff, I trained my staff, I said, you know, we can do anything digital marketing. There's only two industries I don't wanna touch and that's insurance in real estate. You know, because I just didn't understand. I didn't understand the two industries first off. It was so lead-oriented. I didn't get it and then, but now that I'm in it, it's like, oh my gosh, it's so fun. There's so much- And now you're the number one marketing influencer in the insurance industry. I hope I am. I don't know if I am or not. I try to be, but I really feel like I have a lot of fun with other guys that are also doing marketing. I try, there's a lot of us, you know, that are good and there's a lot of people that stink. Like in fact, I knew, I know this agency that just got like $20 million of venture capital to start an insurance industry, an insurance agency and I'm like, what do you need $20 million for? Like, you and me did this, we put this together and don't. You know what I mean? It's like, so what are you doing with your $20 million? Like, what's going on here? You know, it's because they don't know what they're doing. They don't, I'm telling you, they may learn, but you don't need 20 million bucks. So I mean, what you've done with your brand and growing and building security marketing together has been so much fun, man. And to help people out and to get those text messages that's like, you're really blessing my family with the marketing campaigns, I'm able to, you know, it's just, it's a lot of fun. Talk about the brand aspect, you know, from a marketing perspective, from your brain, that someone's out wanting to build a brand. Like, cause old school, average age is 59 and a half. So old school people don't think that branding and I'm not saying it means to be the leader, like we, you know, we brand along the way, but having a brand, having people know you, getting attention, putting out content, all these different things, it's almost like I'm in the insurance industry, so I don't need it. Well, that's like an old school method. There's two, what I would call like axioms that come to like, when it comes to branding. One, you kind of get a certain level where your brand is important to you and you have money to invest. If you're a newer agent, you really probably are gonna have a tough time having any sort of like branding budget because it's expensive. It's something you're investing, you're reaping or you're sewing into something for later benefit. But if you do your lead development the right way, then you can kind of brand along the way as a new agent. Meaning you can set up a website, you can push people to that website, you can have your own brand develop that way as a new agent, but there's a certain point where you hit a level where your brand is important and that to me is, you know, when you start doing marketing campaigns, lead development campaigns with your own brand associated, investing in content, search engine optimization, investing in different various marketing methods that aren't fully focused on lead cost per lead. See what I'm saying, that's what I mean by branding because there's marketing, in my opinion, you have got two really ways you go. You've got lead development marketing that are only key performance indicator that matters is lead cost per lead. And you've got your brand that's like, I'm getting my name out there, I'm making myself well known seminars, getting referrals, that kind of stuff. You need to kind of do both, you know, and that's how I perceive branding versus lead dev. I'm trying to get to where I'm personally spending seven figures just, just promoting me, us, what we have. I mean, you probably already are spending more than that, depends on how you, whenever you count an 8%, you know, because at the end of the day, you know what I mean, like what is that? I mean, at the end of the day, when you look at the numbers of 8%, you know, what's your thoughts on that, by the way? Because outside looking in, marketing guy. Well, before we partnered, I was watching your stories because I knew you were in the same town. And I'm like, this dude got Nissan Stadium? Like, who does this guy think he is? What in the whole world is he doing? This kid, you know, I was just kind of like, I wasn't kind of sending, but I was like, what is this guy doing getting Nissan Stadium from Springfield, Missouri? And now I get it because, you know, with this last 8% nation that I was a part of, there's just something about. Which we should have went bigger with, by the way. Well, whatever, man. I thought it was awesome. And this year, this next year is gonna be ridiculous. I can't have freaking weight. Oh my gosh. Do you think, I mean, you're seeing a lot of the risks and stuff and you're seeing it pay off. Talk to someone out there that's like, you know, you're able to see it and be a part of it now. What's, there's a lot of people out there that are scared to take some of those risks, man. Well, you don't understand how consumers, people work with the people that educate them. And so if you're not doing anything that's educating your consumers by content or whatever, you're making a big mistake because that's who people are working with. They are, period. So like, you know, for instance, if you can offer, let's just say you do Medicare, if you can offer a free three hour course of how to pick your Medicare plan or whatever that is and then put that on your website, you know, get that content and add value to that person, they're gonna work with you if they go through your marketing, you know, stuff. So you know, you gotta be able to craft good marketing funnels. You gotta be able to educate and you gotta be able to invest in this stuff, but it takes money to build a website. Yeah. So a lot of people are like, well, do I wanna put $2,500 into a website or do I wanna put $2,500 into Legion? It's like in the short term, yeah, Legion. But you hit a certain point where it's like, you gotta get the brand, the marketing, you know, your website's the chassis of your digital marketing. Your social should be part of that as the engine. Your SEO should be part of that. Your content should be part of that. Your, all your testimonials of your customers should be part of that. But your website's the chassis of your digital marketing. A lot of people don't really understand that or they don't care about that or they don't get how important it is. Yeah. What was the first thing, random question, what was the first thing, maybe it's just, maybe you were a teenager, who knows? What was the first thing you ever marketed and sold? Pumpkins. Seriously. I was saying- That's why I love these interviews, I didn't know that. Did you know that, Keith? I had no idea. I was a nine-year-old kid and I was like, dad, my dad had a garden. And so there's, I don't know about pumpkins, but basically they, I guess they come up in the fall or something, I don't remember this. It's been a while. But my dad's garden was completely empty in the fall and he's like, dude, I can make you some pumpkins and you can go sell them. I'm like, let's do it. So he'd plant me a bunch of pumpkins. I got them in a wheelbarrow and like in the beginning of October, I wheelbarrowed the pumpkins from door to door and sold them for like five bucks a piece. Five bucks? Yeah, and I'm making like, I'm like a nine-year-old kid making like a hundred bucks a week in October. So I bought Nintendo's and like all kinds of stuff. Dude, that's awesome. And then I also, my mom did swimming lessons. We had pool. We had pool lessons. So like we had a big old pool in our backyard and we had swimming lessons. And my mom did like, hundreds of kids would come through while all the brothers and sisters would come to swimming lessons. So I went to Sam's and bought bubblegum and soda and all that and just set up a table and just, it was fun, man. I even like scooted my Nintendo out there while I was sitting there playing Nintendo. And then I was, dude, I was making like 30 bucks a day. Like as like a probably a 10, 11-year-old kid just sitting in my backyard selling the brother and sister, you know, push pops or something. So the entrepreneurial spirit has always been there. It's just, you know, whenever I hear Jordan Belford talk about, if you listen to Jordan Belford, he talks about how he had his, what was it, the shaved ice that he would sell on the beach, it was just like that. Like I just had this knack for like, you know what, there's so many bored brothers and sisters while their kid, whether brothers in the pool, they're gonna go get two bucks for their mom, just, and the mom's gonna give them two bucks because they just wanted to just get out of my hair, you know? So I was just like raking it in, man. I was like, you know, run out of inventory by the three o'clock and it was so fun, man. Those were the days, dude. That's awesome. Who's your, who do you listen to the most? Cause you're someone that listens and watches and maybe just, maybe for fun and then maybe also from, you know, marketing. Yeah, believe it or not, I actually like Jordan Belford's content. You know, I think, I think he's a sales guru. He has a speaker at 8%. And I, but people, I first, whenever, whenever you said I want to get Jordan Belford, my first reaction was what? What'd I say? Do you remember? I was like, no way, man. I seemed impossible. Well, no, I remember saying like, the dude's not a good dude, man. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't respect. Yeah, that happened. You know what I mean? Like, I don't really respect, the dude like got famous by like, you know, making people. And then you, I was already dove into his content. Yeah. So then I got into his content and I was like, okay, he actually admits that he was made mistakes and apologized and he's did his time, like literally present time. And he doesn't like brag about it. He's, in fact, is, you can tell he's remorseful, you know, and like, but the dude's a salesman, you know what I'm saying? Yes. And so I respect his content and I listened to it. I also just listened to random YouTube videos all the time. I'm probably, if you looked at my YouTube watch time, I bet you I have 13 to 15 hours a week, you know? Of listening. Yeah, I mean, listening to YouTube all the time. So I do listen to Grant Cardone. I do too. I listen to. You don't connect as well with him though. No, no, but, but that's okay. I mean, he's still got decent content. I like his three or four minute videos about him, just kind of like, have you ever seen those conference table videos where he kind of talks to his team? Yeah. I like those. Those are good. I don't really love the way he treats people most. The way he- He beats his chest pretty hard. Yeah, and I don't, but whatever. You know, he even says, you know, you want to push away half the crowd and attract half the crowd, right? I think I'm kind of the crowd that- He's attracted me for some reason. Well, he's a super successful guy, so good for him, you know? That's true. But yeah, I mean, there's all kinds of different podcasts I'll listen to, you know, but I like just random humor. I like stand-up comedians podcast, so like The Fighter and the Kid, which you probably don't know. You know what I mean? Joe Rogan is fun. You told me about it. Yeah, Joe Rogan, you talked a lot about. They did last, this guy last night, the Queens of Stone Age, it was a really great interview. But it's just, I like people, and so I like listening to their perspectives, and I really like long form content. That's why my favorite content that we do is the podcast and all that, because I like getting to know people. And I've had a lot of people say, that come to work with us, that say, I've watched your videos, I wanna work with you, I don't really know why, I can just tell that you care. And we wouldn't be able to do that without long form content. That's it, man. That's true. That's true. What do you think, looking forward in the insurance industry as we got a couple of minutes left, what do you see happen in the next decade? I see a boatload of money going to social media, and I see costs increasing extraordinarily. I see our costs per lead. The window of social media lead development, like the heyday is, I think it's coming not to an end, but it's gonna be much tougher. It's just like Google. So like Google AdWords in the beginning, they were just printing money. Whoever got into that first, just was printing money because it's like, people were like, well, I don't wanna pay for website traffic, but people understood it. They were like, oh gosh, I'll pay for as much as I can do. Ilohpaz was one of those dudes. And they were getting, you know, 20 cent clicks that are now $20 clicks. You know what I'm saying? So that's coming. And so what's gonna happen is, is you're gonna have to diversify your lead source. Like if you think that you can just run lead forms on Facebook forever, you are absolutely wrong. Like it is not gonna happen, I promise. I'm already seeing a shift that's going from lead forms to other ways to use social traffic that are much more advanced that you're not gonna be able to do. The random person isn't gonna be able to do. And I wouldn't be able to do unless I had thousands of dollars to practice of our own stuff, you know? So I see social drying up. I see us needing other digital lead sources. I see, I don't know, I see the digital wave being more important than ever, but I think it's gonna have to be earned. I think there's gonna need to be a good website with a good search and optimization base with social media being a part of that. I don't think we're gonna be able to just lean on social for our lead development like that. I'm already seeing it happen. Where it's just, it's way hard. I mean, would you agree that it's harder now than it has ever been? I mean, it's 44% ad increase just this year, supposedly. That is gonna continue to happen. And in order, you've gotta be able to prepare for that because there's a lot of businesses I know that are built around that as like the core secret sauce and it's not gonna be that way forever. It's unique because most people think I just need to figure it out and have control and do it on my own, but even the biggest places that are doing stuff on their own are still using us in some way. Yeah, no, absolutely. Like we have a major, but it's always a great relationship though too because we're not peacocks with our feathers up saying like I'm telling you guys, this digital world changes every three months, it does. And so you've gotta have sharp people around you to kind of like be able to say, I'm trying this, what are you trying? Because there's so many like, like for an example, this gigantic call center that I was working with. I was helping him from the lead funnel to get the inbound call because I had cracked that nut. But one of the things I was struggling with was potential MedSup language and video content. And I'm like, what do you think about this video? He's like, man, he goes, honestly, I would add this, this, and this, and this. And it's like. Collaboration. Yeah, and it's like, and before you know it, it's like with our powers combined, like all of a sudden now we're killing it and getting six star leads where he was getting 12 and then we're getting, you know, in a thousand dollars ad spend, we're getting 60 call ins and 198 leads or something like that. But before I was getting half that and he was getting half that. So it's like, you've gotta like work with people. The whole, I've got the secret sauce, Cody, and I'm gonna, you're gonna have to pay me for this course and I'm gonna teach you that course. It's bananas. And you're gonna be, you're gonna know perfectly and you're gonna be able to use it forever and it's never gonna change. On the lead development side. It's gonna go amazing. No, it just don't even do it. It's awful. In fact, multiple times, have we not had people at our retreats that have just paid multiple thousands of dollars? For their course and then still had us handle this stuff because it's like, they make it almost so complex. And it is complex. It is. Dude, you're an influencer, you know it. Thank you for letting me be an influencer. You're a boss, bro. Hey, and to be with you and on your team has been a lot of fun, man. Thanks, buddy. We've had a lot of fun, we've won, we've taken some bruises, but man, overall, dude, we have like had a lot of fun, man. Oh, it's been a blast. It's been like the most fun I've ever had. Hopefully you've enjoyed the journey watching this. Do me a favor. Schedule a free strategy session with this dude, okay? Click the link below. Yup. Fill out your information. Yup. Let us know your problems, what you're struggling with and landing can help. Yeah, we'll just talk. Do whatever we can. It's free. You might as well take us up on it. Landon McCarver, Scraging Market, thanks for being on Insurance Information. Thank you, man. Appreciate it, bro. Thank you, guys. See you next time.