 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the session entitled Recharging Growth in China. My name is Tian Wei. I'm a moderator and host coming from CGTN from China. Such a pleasure to see all of you here. Everybody's fighting the morning traffic to be here for this early session, so I really appreciate your presence here today. Having said that though, this is one of the most important topics I think here in this town and also in the world, the state of China's economy and its future potential with all your contributions. We have heard from the Chinese Premier about his understanding of the Chinese economy and the messages coming from the Chinese government in terms of policy and in terms of building a future together. That is on the policy side. Meanwhile lately, we heard about the 5.2 growth of the GDP in China. Well, at the same time, we understand there is a transformation going on in the Chinese economy. But how fast it is happening? What is really going to be China's relationship with the rest of the world in terms of where its economy is going? What are the roles different stakeholders can play, will play, and would like to play? So we are going to ask all these questions in our discussion. With a strong panel sitting on the stage, the best thing for a moderator is to be as short as possible in her sentences. I'm going to do exactly that from now on. So my great honor to introduce our panelists one by one. The sitting order is not necessarily about authority. It's really just about the names and mixture of people from different parts of the world. OK. So let's have Ambassador Kaburat, Ambassador of Australia to the United States. We call him Lao Lu in China. Good to see you, Mr. Ambassador. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's been a long time. Later you translate for yourself. Could you do that? OK. Thank you. OK. Then we have with honor Valen Garidjo, chair of the executive board and chief executive officer of Merck based in Germany. She's also a member of the International Business Council of WEF. Good to see you, men. Good morning. Thank you. Sitting over there, Mr. Jia Xiaoqian, chairman of Heisen's Group from China. Good to see you, Mr. Jia. And there we have Jing Ke Yu, professor of economics from the London School of Economics and Political Science based in the UK. Good to see you, Ms. Jin. Last but certainly not least, longtime friend of the forum and always a very moderate person. Mr. Yu Min, vice chairman of the China Center for International Economic Exchanges, CCIEE from China. He's also a member of the Board of Trustees of WEF. Good to see you, sir. Thank you. All right. So let's jump directly into the discussion. Why not the challenges first so that everybody feel the questions in their mind can be addressed? Mr. Zhu. Oh, wow. Real estate problem. China. Local government debt. And the list goes on. Seems to be what's in the media. What exactly is the state of China's economy to you? Well, I think the growth is 5.2%. It's not too bad. It showed the resilience of China's economy. But if you go down to the details, you will say the consumption actually increased 6.1%. It's quite strong. Actually, the capital investments is only 5%. Not as strong as we expected. But this is good because we want to market consumption pick up. Exports is weak, only almost zero growth for last year, which was the main growth engine for China. So if you see the whole thing, you can see the structure change underway, but support overall the growth. I think that's the picture I'm reading for China's economy today. But when you mention the challenges, I think basically China's economy facing two challenges. One is the technical challenges. Because after 30 years of strong growth, the growth is slowing down. Obviously, you have aging populations, you have lower productivity, and you have the structure change, all those things. So you will not expect China to have a super strong 10% of growth. You cannot do that. So you have to take it. Growth is slowing down. I think quite a few years ago I did a study on the potential of China's economic growth. We estimate that time China's growth will be stabilized in this time, around 4.5%. So if we can do that, it's pretty good. I think that's the trend issue. But more on the structure issue. The Chinese economy previously is more driven by three key drives, one is infrastructure investments, which always account more than 50% of GDP. The second is real estate, and it really grows strongly. And the third is exports. Now those three things all gone, because the return on infrastructure structure is so low is number one. The last year, the real estate's investments was a negative 9.1%. The real estate sales is 1.1 billion square meter. It's a huge number, 1.1 billion square meter, but still dropped 8.1%, compared with even a year ago. So the real estate is still a big economy, but not a growth engine. It's gone in terms of growth. The exports used to be very strong. 2022 China have a 3% of GDP growth, 2% of the point from net exports. But last year it's a zero. So all those gone. So once it's a new, we have to find a new growth engine. So a new growth engine basically come from domestic consumption, digital ties and manufacturing, and the carbon neutrality transformation. I think this really thing will support China's growth in media and even long term. Let me take, say, one minute to explain. The first issues, domestic consumption loss was picked up. 7% of growth, it's not too bad. No, it's take time because you need to increase the social security expenditures from fiscal policies. You need to boost the people's salaries. You make sure people have a confidence to consume. So it's take time. So 7% growth on consumption is a really good number. And the digitalization for the manufacturer is important. China's manufacturer account of 30.3% of a total global manufacturing, equivalent to US plus Japan plus Germany plus South Korea. So after years, we realize that's the real strength of China's economy. To deal with decoupling the strategies, we want to make sure the manufacturer become ever stronger. So before you leave, you have to come with us because of it. So digitalization move very fast. If you're looking for the investments in loss in the manufacturers, 8% is very strong. And the high-techs, 12.6% of growth. Carbon neutrality is another big area. We're going to talk about some of these news a bit later, if I could. I see you're trying to provide a great answer about whether it's cyclical or it's structural. On that, I also want to go to Professor Jin, your thoughts briefly. Well, first of all, booms and busts is a natural feature of market economies. In the last 40 years, China has really never had a bust. So bust cycles also oust less productive firms and provides exit mechanisms. And that creative destruction, I think, is one of the bright spots of the situation. Look, China is suffering from a severe deficit in demand because of low-wage growth, scarring effects to the pandemic, and of course, the real estate. But I just want to say, because of China's size today, growing at 3% to 4% even is not a bad thing. If India grows 4 percentage points faster than China from now until 2030, China's still going to contribute $130 trillion of additional GDP more than India will to the world. Now, briefly, I totally agree with Mr. Zhu's assessment of transitioning to a productivity-innovation-driven economy. That's the only way that's going to sustain growth in the long run. So that's a good thing. But guess what? Renewables or digitization in the short term, it can't possibly displace real estate as a provider for growth and employment in the way that it had in the last 10 years or so. Second, services. Right now, it only accounts for half of GDP and only 48% of employment. That number is 80% in advanced economy. So you can imagine a whole amount of room for also absorbing the youth who are underemployed, highly educated. They account for more educated skill force and manufacturing. And you also have almost a billion people who haven't really reached the middle income by international standards, living under $300 per month. So I can go on and on. When even Japan and Korea leveled off their growth, their productivity as a share of GDP, as a share of the US, was already 80%. And China is still very low. So a lot of room for convergence. So I think we want to separate the cyclical problems of demand from some of the longer term challenges. I'm so happy we already got the economists that geared up at the very beginning of the conversation. Well, let's go somewhere. Then we want to ask, what about the businesses? How are they feeling the temperatures, given the big backdrop of the economy that the two economists just painted about international global companies? I think Ms. Gallagher is a great representative, based in Germany, but has been doing business with China for decades. So tell me how you are feeling the body temperature of China's economy. So indeed, we have been in China for 90 years. And of course, China is an important opportunity to ensure sustainable, high quality development for future years. I think the challenge in the economy today, which at the end, as other speakers said, seems to be a bit better than expected. The challenge that we see in China at this time is to really balance national security issues, resilience, and growth. At the end of the day, China is an export country, like Germany is. And for that, we need reliable rules. We need global, healthy, and fair competition. So in a nutshell, we need a level playing field for international businesses so that we can continue to contribute to economic growth in China through our international investments. We heard from the speech given by Chinese Premier. He talked about the size of the Chinese economy, the market, still attractive. And meanwhile, talking about the continuous consultation with the global companies, if I remember right, about government procurement and also the flow of data, just to say a few examples. How do you see these kinds of policy attitudes, vis-à-vis your concerns and also your plans for the future of your company in China? Look, we continue to operate under a China for China strategy. That means we are extremely well placed to serve the needs of our customers and to serve the patients in China through our life science, health care, and electronics business sectors. So look, just to take an example of the biopharma business, which is also having a very positive impact on the prospects that we see for our life science business, China today is managing 22% of the global R&D, following the US with 27%, and followed by Japan with only 7%. So the booming of biotech and research in China, the booming of new technologies is for a company like ours, a tremendously attractive opportunity. We operate, as I mentioned, with a significant presence. We have 5,000 employees in China. We have several factories, innovation hubs. But we rely also on trust-based partnerships with local companies to be able to accelerate our contributions to customers and patients, and most importantly, to continue to contribute to our global growth and resilience. You mentioned the word trust. That is a very tempting word. We're going to let everybody talk about that a bit later, I guess, also related to the economy. Let me now go to the Chinese entrepreneur, Mr. Jia, sitting here, Jia Zonglinhao. So as we know, Heisen's, where you come from, is a Chinese manufacturer, one of the largest in the country of its kind. So how do you feel the temperature of the Chinese economy, where you are? You just shared a few words with us about how you see the temperature of the Chinese economy in your sector. 2023 was a very difficult year, not just for us, but also for our counterparts outside China. Now, maintaining 5.2% economic growth was a real positive surprise for us. And the government has made a lot of efforts in different areas to support companies, so as the companies can have high quality development. And Heisen's had a growth rate of 10% last year, and the profits was 11%. So we can see it has done better than the national average. And also, we have had growth at the global level, as well as at the local level. And the growth has reached double-digit figures. So right now, what we need, the companies, what we need is an open market. And also, it has to be, of course, a market-led and market-based economy. So as also, we need stable industrial and supply chains. So you talked about double-digit figures. But what you said about the double-digit, I'm kind of impressed. So how it happened? Can you share some secrets? Well, I have to keep some confidentiality. These are commercial secrets, of course. But I think it's really important to have innovation and provide high-quality products, as well as good experience for consumers and clients. And we also need to provide innovative products and services to consumers in China and all over the world. And I think these are all important things for companies. That's what you're saying. Very interesting. We see some keywords coming from two business leaders over there. But when you look at the logic behind these keywords, actually, they're somewhat related. So if I could just throw another question to both of you before I go to Ambassador Rod. We see an interesting phenomenon. On the one hand, global companies are operating, working, establishing your business in China for the Chinese market in competition with the Chinese companies, but also at the same time in cooperation with the Chinese companies. And at the same time, for the overseas market, you're also competing and working together with your Chinese counterparts if you look at the supply chain and many other factors. So how does that fascinating, sophisticated relationship work? And how is it happening right now within this current atmosphere of the Chinese economy? Would you like to share some of your thoughts briefly, if you can? Absolutely. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm just trying to pick a conversation here, please. I think this is perfectly compatible. You know, I mean, we as a company, as a science and technology company, which is operating globally, we consider a very significant element of our resilience and future growth, global diversification. And in that context, we of course rely on our own internal portfolio, which we develop in China. I mentioned that already in biopharma, delivery in essential medicines, in life science in which we serve biotech and pharma customers, which is a very promising growth avenue. And also in electronics for many years, working on display, liquid pistols, displays, and now also on semiconductors material. So relying on our organic resources and allocating capital and investing capital in China is definitely very complementary with partnering with highly prestigious pharma and biotech companies in China to increase our impact in the local and international markets. Because we are also relying on some of these emerging innovation and expanding biotech in China to support companies to commercialize products outside of China, new products outside of China, which is a win-win for both parties. So we have announced several deals in the last few months in which we have licensed new modalities for treatment of cancer or other chronic diseases from China partners. So I think this is very, very complementary. And of course, we do it in a very, and it increases not only the local impact in the market, but also our global growth opportunity overall. You are saying this not because you know that there are a lot of Chinese audience watching this session, right? No. I'm saying this because it's part of our strategy. As I said, as a long-term partner and as a long-term player in the Chinese market, we really value this I insist transparent trust-based collaboration to increase the quality of our service to the customers locally and globally, and most importantly, to ensure high quality sustainable development of our business. All right, China. Mr. Jia, is that music to your ears? Well, Heisen is a manufacturing company, and it's also a traditional home appliances company. And through our development, we have realized that competition, of course, is a core characteristic of the market. And of course, you all know that in 1992, China started the reform and opening up, and then China also became member of WTO. And over the last four decades, China has gone through a lot of changes. And also, we have learned to face, accept challenges and by accepting these challenges, we have also learned from other companies, from foreign companies. And we have also learned how the market economy, the world market economy works. And I think this has been very helpful for us. And apart from competition, of course, cooperation is the other main characteristic of the market economy. For example, Heisen has started cooperation with Japanese companies many years ago. For example, for air conditioning, we worked with Hitachi many years ago. So cooperation will be the main theme of the future market development. Dear fellow panelists, I cannot let you escape important questions such as geopolitics. We know that you have been observing China from near and far for decades. One of the uncertainties we all know for this interesting year 2024 is geopolitics and how it's related to both the internal political agendas of different countries and their interactions. Here I would say about China and the US as well. So, of course, your home country, Australia, being an important player in the Asia Pacific region. So tell me more about when you are looking at our topic today, the state of Chinese economy, recharging growth. How are you looking at it from where you are? Mr. Ambassador. Good. I first went to work in China probably 40 years ago this year. So I've seen a few things. And the comments earlier about boom and bust and about structural and cyclical factors I have observed and analyzed over four decades. We are, however, I think, in quite unique circumstances today. And in large part, that's because of the overhang of, let's call it, geopolitics and the real world of the economy. Second point I'd make is when I see, and these are my personal views, I'm a China analyst. I'm not representing a government here. That's my day job. I'm here at Davos having a conversation. As best I can analyze the questions that we are confronting. But I've never really accepted the thesis that you see written in various parts of the world about peak China, that somehow the Chinese economy is peaking, slowing, and then heading towards something worse. And the reason I analyze it in those terms is because you don't have to have been to China hundreds of times over 40 years to conclude that the Chinese consumer is the best guarantor of China's economic future. So long as the Chinese consumer has confidence in the future, then the economy will continue to grow reasonably well. That's a core fact. And remember, the scale of the Chinese consumer market is unprecedented in global economic history. But the Chinese consumer, while I don't accept peak China at all, I think it's intellectually and analytically flawed because of the untapped potential of Chinese consumer demand. The Chinese consumers had a rough time in recent years. They, like the rest of us, had to endure the pandemic. Since then, you've seen the property market, which represents 28% of GDP, go through unprecedented tumult. And if you've had your savings tied up in property investment, then frankly, you're in negative investment territory. If you're in the equity market trying to make some money, putting your savings aside and then earning some more cash, guess what? China's equity markets have performed poorly as well. So the poor old Chinese consumer, frankly, in my judgment, thinking about the future, these factors, together with youth unemployment, which continues to be problematic, is feeling a bit battered. And so the key question for the future is the restoration of Chinese domestic consumer confidence because that is China's best long-term guarantee and lies at the heart of Chinese economic policy in the dual circulation economy model. Last point, business confidence. When we've had this conference before Vice Premier Liu He tell us and tell the Chinese domestic audience about the central importance of the Chinese private sector, 60% of GDP, 90% of innovation, 60% plus of Chinese taxation, 70% of new employment creation, the future confidence of the private sector in China is of fundamental importance, like that of Chinese consumers. And Chinese business confidence has taken a battering in recent years as well. So the real question for Chinese policymakers is how do you actually deal with these two confidence equations, concluding point, trade, which Jiumin referred to before and traditionally a huge driver of Chinese economic growth for at least the last 30 years, if not longer. This is where geopolitics enters into the scene fundamentally and that is, is it fundamentally disrupting all of our growth models for the future? By which I mean, are we on the cusp of seeing the emergence of a completely bifurcated global economy? That is competing supply chains across the board, not just at the high end of technology and semiconductors, you've seen the semiconductor war between China and the United States, but through other technology categories, through to general manufacturing, which became a red hot concern in the West during the pandemic when everyone became concerned that having consigned all of their manufacturing to the Chinese growth factory of the future, so they couldn't get access to what they needed at a time of crisis. And then thirdly, on basic things such as critical minerals, is this turning into a bifurcated global order as well? And that's where geopolitics has this potential to pull the floor from underneath our historical growth models. So in answer to your question, what are the challenges that would be my set? Consumers, business confidence, geopolitics, and trade bifurcation. I want to borrow the, lately, the policies of the World Economic Forum policy. I have a quote over there saying, once you outline the challenges, you have to provide the solutions. So I'm gonna come back to you for the solutions. But what you said is one word about confidence. Whether it's consumer confidence, business confidence, or confidence about the latest trends of the global order or global interaction. About that, I want to have our economists to respond from their perspective and then later go to the business representative here as well to voice their opinions. Professor Jin, first, please. Thank you. Confidence has to come from somewhere, right? There are underlying factors that alter confidence and consumption. And of course, we've seen the scarring effects of the pandemic. Don't forget that Chinese households did not get the support that European American households got during the pandemic. But more importantly, wage growth could be declining. We don't really know for sure, but it's not climbing. So without that, you can't possibly get consumption to be really quite enthusiastic. Of course, there's real estate and the stock market. Again, retail investors account for the majority of the turnover for Chinese A shares. And so that has also been performing problematically. And of course, youth unemployment is a challenge. But is it coming from a cyclical feature which is a demand deficit in which case policies could potentially work? But as we'll hear from Mr. Zhu, there are also constraints, right? There's a debt overhang on local governments. Local governments were the key implementers of economic drivers of growth. But now they are suffering from mountainous debt burdens. So these are some of the kind of short-term challenges. Coming back to the trade challenges, look, you know, we're seeing in the data that trade is simply being re-rooted. It's being re-rooted from countries like Vietnam and Mexico. But guess who the ultimate demand and suppliers of that trade is? It's still the U.S. and China. It's going from a longer, taking a longer route and that's going to increase trade cost. And some Chinese companies from what I learned have also set up factories in Mexico and of course in Vietnam to kind of circumvent some of these trade barriers, but it still has to come ultimately from countries like the U.S. and China. About the business side, Mr. Jia, if I could, your company, I was looking at the reference a little bit before we start this conversation, is actually what they call a mixed ownership company. That's an interesting terminology for many of our audience here. This is about the mixture of state-owned with private ownership together. And you were moving as a state-owned company executive to now a mixed ownership company executive. So when it comes to business confidence, I see from Ambassador Rath's question, there's indication about how about private entrepreneurs? How are they being honored about their contributions? What is your understanding of the latest development? We know there are policies being reconfirmed recently. We also see a lot of discussions about that since China's Central Economic Work Conference at the end of last year. So, Mr. Jia. Well, there are some special things about Chinese companies. And HiSense started out as a 100% state-owned company, but encouraged by the state we reformed our ownership structure. 74% of our equity is now in private hands, only 26% in state hands. Now, 76%, that's mostly in the hands of certain strategic investors and our own workforce. So through market forces, corporate governance and the operations of our shareholders' meeting, we operate on a much more of a market footing. Because we are in a very competitive sector, and that puts us on a much better footing. Now, we are in a good position to observe what's going on in the Chinese economy, particularly what comes to private businesses. Last year, there were close to 300 regulations issued by various government bodies encouraging private business. Now, that has given us signals which enhance trust in the development prospects of private businesses. Now, for HiSense, we operate on a fully corporate footing now, of course. So in sectors like ours, it's the same for us as for other private businesses. We operate under market forces. We try to achieve an edge through better technology and innovation, and just managing ourselves better as a company. From that point of view, last year and the year before, there were difficulties mainly in the real estate sector. And there was a bit of a crisis in monetary terms. But what we see is also a challenge with a lack of consumer confidence that has been turned around, is being turned around by the adoption of various macroeconomic control policies. And I think that that is going to rebuild consumer confidence. Yeah, last time I looked, I'm not chairman of the Chinese Communist Party. And later, I'd like Dr. Jumi also to respond to the same question, please. This is a responsibility of others, but a few reflections. One, to agree with Jin Ke Yu, in terms of the Chinese consumer and consumer confidence, there are two things. One relates to wages policy. The second relates to taxation policy and, shall we say, social provision under the terms of the Chinese budget. Why do Chinese consumers save so much? Because they have much less generous social security than the rest of us, from education, to health, to retirement income, et cetera. You are largely on your own. And if you're concerned simultaneously about your future employability, you're going to save more, particularly for your kids. So dealing robustly with these two questions on the level of real wages, which, of course, goes to the ultimate competitiveness of aspects of the Chinese export model. But if you're going to go to domestic consumption as a growth driver, this has to be addressed. And secondly, social provision. On business confidence, the second point that I made before. The truth is there's been a perception, really, in the last five years, that in China, you've seen the advance of the state-owned enterprise sector and the retreat of the private sector. It's a politically incorrect statement in China, but I'll make it anyway. Guo Jin Min Tui, advance of the state, retreat of the private sector. So this has actually had an enormous impact on perceptions in terms of private sector business confidence. So therefore, the need for the Chinese government and the CCP to frankly de-emphasize ideology and to re-emphasize the core question of the normal profit incentives for businesses operating within a market economy is the fundamental question in terms of restoring business confidence. Finally, on trade, which you asked me to answer all three. So I'm being assiduous as a student of Confucius in taking the instruction from the teacher. That's you. And that is, and that is, this goes to the management of the US-China relationship. What the leaders did in San Francisco in November was decide to hit the pause button on geopolitics. That's good. What we don't know is how long the pause button will remain pressed. Is this a tactical shift over the next 12 months? And then we'll revert to where we were in previous years where geopolitics would undermine most elements of economic confidence and trade normality. Or will this become a longer term shift? I hope it's the latter. But that is the core question, the intray of both Joe Biden and Xi Jinping today. For 2024, it will be even more complicated as to who will answer that question. I guess I want to go to Dr. Jiu Min to respond to also to the earlier interactions among your fellow panelists briefly, because I also have some more questions for you as well, sir. Well, that should take an hour. I know. I know. Well, on the consumption side, I can just list a few things. But if you're looking for the data, last year, consumption increased 7.1% compared with 5.2% GDP growth. This is good. This means consumption confidence is a bad. The real issue is not the consumption growth. It's the overall challenge of consumption. Level is low compared to the GDP shares, which is historical issues. So China need to continue to work very hard to boost the share of consumption in the total GDP. Currently, only roughly a little bit more than 50%, which is way low. So I think that's the issue. But there are many things you can do. The fiscal policy needs the most money on safety and as I said I mentioned, I think this is important. And also the wage increase is also important. But many important issues, there's still 150 million people living in the city without we call the city ID hooker issues. So speed up to reform on the residential ID issue will boost the consumption in a bad way. We expect to see another 150 million people moving to the city in the next 20 years. So granted, 300 million people consume power, give them city ID is very important. Good news is indeed the government speed up the whole thing. So the consumption issue, the growth is strong, but the level relatively low, it will take a long time. The private sector confidence has also picked up. I see that they are doing good on something, on trade issues. China trade last year is 0.2% growth, almost a zero as I mentioned. But private sector on trade issues is 6.3% growth. So private sector, the share in the total trade increases 3.1% GDP, a percentage point. That's mean previously they only account the 50%. Now they're 153.1%. So private sector response to the global environment change very fast. So I think that's a good. Can you mention one thing, whether the green transformation will be able to meet the growth need? I think this is indeed an issue. It's a critical issue. Yeah, we saw the green sector growth strongly. EV batteries, it's all fantastic right. But scale is a big issue. So in that sense, the government will continue to put a amount of money into the green infrastructure. So this year, we roughly estimate that Chinese authority will invest so 10 trillion R&B in the green infrastructure. Digital energy, digital facilities, the data sets, and the power system, digital power systems to facilitate on the green transformation also to avoid over-invest in road and the bridge. So they will try because 10 trillion R&B will provide a very strong growth support for the whole economy. Following up on what you said, we love the Chinese economic policies which always come out as in PowerPoints. There's four new, as they say, new technology, new infrastructure, new investment, and new consumption. That's the four new earlier. We also heard the PowerPoints coming from the Chinese premier talking about the green development. There seems to be also a long list of possible new green initiatives. So how will these policies work with the question that all of you critically ask whether it is enough to gear up the Chinese economic growth? I want to ask also the business leaders here. Mr. Jia, briefly. Mr. Jia, we have limited time now, so... Our time is limited, so I'd like to ask you, Mr. Jia, just in telegram style now. Well, a lot of what the premier said was very important for high-sense, in particular the new emphasis on high technology. And that's important for us when we want to better satisfy customer needs. Secondly, in structural terms, the emphasis on replacing low-end products is very important for us. At high-sense, we are also very keen on green manufacturing and green consumption and greening the entire industry value chain. That's the focus of our efforts. Like peers in China, we are trying to improve recycling and reuse of consumer appliances and reduce our own emissions. We hope that we will be able to share best practices with other companies around the world. What does that mean for your global supply chain and also your global manufacturing landscape? I hope you will say more about that. Just very briefly, you can talk. Yes, just quickly, could you show your views on those? Well, there are similar issues for the global supply chain. ESG is a common language for the global sector now. We have responsibilities when it comes to green development, when it comes to climate change. And there's a lot of demand out there for green supply chains. We have 100,000 staff of whom 25,000 are outside China. They're employed by outside China. Now, when it comes to R&D, design, and recycling and so on, we have to design and make deployments in green terms. That will give us better momentum for the future. Something that has not been mentioned, perhaps, yet in the context of restoring business confidence and really reassuring international investment, is that, in my view, China is getting closer and closer to a developed market at this time for health care, for life science. So something which is very critical is the consistency and predictability of the regulatory environment. We, as a company, has been extremely active on portfolio management. And today, one of the potential constraints and limitations that we encounter when we think of inorganic moves is regulatory constraints related to potential national security issues. I think this is something that has to be very promptly addressed so we can be playing and operating globally. I think the other one, and I need to mention this one because it's super important, is the intellectual property protection and the reward to innovation in China. All right. We have very limited time, but our conference, forum staff, they're so kind and generous in giving us some time, asking questions. Why don't I collect two questions from the audience, and then we quickly ask our panelists to answer those questions. Let's collect the question first. I see one hand over there, the gentleman over there, and then we give another chance on this area. So please, very briefly, who are the question? Question is, when is China eliminating coal for energy consumption? And when is China stopping the very fast growth of carbon emissions? 29% three years ago? All right, we got your question. Thank you so much. I don't want to cut you short, but we are having limited time. Any question from this area just to be fair, OK? This gentleman over there. Well, thank you so much. I just wonder whether there is any plan for structural reform. What I mean by structural reform is that privatization SOEs and state banks to improve total factor productivity. Otherwise, I don't know where this gross impulse can become from. Real structural reform, when? Timeline, yeah? OK, I'm so sorry. We have great questions coming to our audience. Much better questions than mine. But we have limited time. Let's just throw these two questions to our panelists whoever want to address it. Too many, Ninka, you're a good on this. Oh, OK, we should do that. The first question is about the coal, right? The great transformation. So very briefly, two sentences. Yeah, coal account of 58% of China's energy consumption. You can think about it. The challenges are daunting, right? The good news is renewable energy development so fast. Last year, the whole world installed 500 big watts renewable energy. China account 40%. So the first time, the new capacity in China, over 50% of the new capacity now. We will gradually stop building the coal plan, I think in the next two to three years. And then start 2030, we'll start to retire the existing coal power plant. Because existing power plants still have more than 25 years life. So it's a gradual approach. But the coal, obviously, is a big issue. You will see, because in China, the solar power cost is way lower than coal power cost now. So that's meaning coal will be out. Thank you. About the real structural reform, as phrased by that gentleman. Anyone want to respond to that? Well, the structural reform is ongoing. I think the structural reform, we've been talking about that throughout the session. But very briefly. As all the policies today in China you observe are structural reform. OK. All right. Let's have a final word from everyone. One or two sentences from everyone has a very brief conclusion for today's session. Why don't we start from, I would just go this, this, this, and then over there. OK. So maybe Dr. Zhu Min, we change a little bit the sequence. One or two sentences only. Well, Chinese economy, I think, do have its own resilience. But the challenge is daunting. It's a long structural reform process. So it will take time. But you will get there. All right. Ambassador Rod. Consumer confidence, slowly improving. Business confidence, remaining static. Stop talking about ideology. Mr. Gardejo. Accelerating growth will require that we continue to operate on a free trade environment. Globalization isn't perfect, but it's the best we have. And I don't concede a global world without China. Mr. Jia. Well, I think globalization is the overall trend. It has seen some stumbling blocks later. But I think it is the trend for the future. And I'm confident. Professor Jin. In so many ways, China is in transition. And all this requires a bit of patience, whether it's real estate, or debt, or carbon. And that's how we should see it, I think. I am a humble student of the Chinese economy. I'm also an extremely humble student of our panelists today. I think you mentioned some very important keywords. Trust, confidence, and transformation. Really appreciate it for your efforts. And thank you so much also for everyone's contribution. Thank you. This is the joint session between CGTN and World Economy Forum. I'm Tianwei. Thanks for watching. Bye.