 Alright, thanks for staying with us. Now according to a publication on Ascend, right, career transitions are like onions. They are complex and there is usually a lot more to them than we see on the surface. Whether you are pursuing a passion or a side hustle, confused about quitting your job for a new one, or just looking for a change, know that it's not a straightforward decision. It requires careful planning and thinking through the why, the what, and the when. Now the world is changing and so are we. So how do we start to career transition for the future, right? The future of the jobs are not your regular, your tiktok is a career now. Now please, let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 08183-4663. You can also at the way show after on the hashtag way show. So I'm going to bring in Vume in a minute, right? I just want to hear your quick thoughts Uti and Noma. Have you had any at any point in time thought about transitioning a career and what did you do? How did you go about that? Not necessarily transitioning careers. I've always been in the customer space so that is has always been the foundation. What I am is a jack of many trades. So I have sold cars, I have sold spare parts, I have, well there's been a DJ, MC, anything that involves talking. So yeah, so I've done many, many things. I've been a caterer, I've baked, I've been a wedding planner or event planner. So I think I've been a photographer. So everything that is trending today at some point. So I'm very curious. So when I get into something, I really, really get into it. I did make up for about five minutes and just trying to fight it eyebrows just was not for me. But I usually want to learn things. Well yes, I'm learning coding now because of the little man. So there's that too. A lot of these things, like I said, I never do regrets, right? But when I see the money, the amount of money people are making, I just think to myself, my God. What if I just say, I mean, I just talked about the YouTube thing, right? Because I like to try everything and I like to try to learn it at least a decent amount of time. So I see photographers today who, when they started out, they would come to me and say, show me how to use this camera. And today I'm seeing them shooting weddings with confidence and I'm thinking, wow, if only. The times have really changed. That's the thing, right? So I think that everybody's got like gifting and their calling. And I know that I can do a lot of things. But transitioning is an interesting thing. I have a lot of questions for our guests because in the last three weeks, I've met two ladies. One quit her job in a law firm to open her restaurant. Another quit her job in financial services. Two very good jobs. And she now owns her own salon. And these were all based on their hobbies and things that they love to do. So in fact, the lady that owns the salon, she's learning Trichology, even though the salon is now open, she's learning Trichology. So the fact is they followed their gift or their hobbies or their passions, whatever you want to call it. And I would like to understand how people take the leap because, you know, a leap of faith. Right. Well, I have transitioned in a way from how, where do I start from estate management to finding myself as a missionary to moving on to working with NGOs and then being a makeup artist to grooming, speaking, training people. So it's really, but the interesting thing is that these are areas that I have come to love and I have passion. I also have questions for. Okay, so let me bring in our guest. Guest. Vumi Nsli. No, but Vumi needs to take me to South Africa for one month. Vumi Nsweli is the chief executive officer of Heshed Consulting, a coaching and consulting firm specializing in commerce, acceleration, career coaching, women empowerment, facilitation and training on the African continent with presence in Nigeria, South Africa, Botswana, Rwanda and affiliates in Namibia, Ghana and Uganda. She has coached in multinationals such as Google, Apsa, Investor, Private Bank, Silica, FNB, Voodokam and many more. And she's joined us live from South Africa in Nigeria. Thank you so much. Nsweli. I must get it. But thank you so much. But I add she's a very amiable person. Such a fantastic personality. I think you'll be the first South African that I am in close proximity with. So most times when I have South African guests, they're always on Zoom. So I mean, it's a pleasure. I hear you guys are bubbly, but I've seen a bubbly South African person. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. I mean, so we're discussing career transition in right. And the reason we added that cash for the future is that work as we know it live as we know it is really and the change is so drastic that I mean, look at what he said, years back, some things were not even you couldn't even mention them that these were careers that you would think about. But today, these are the frontline careers that are just you know, everybody it's the center of attention and attraction for most people that everybody wants to jump into those careers, right? So in terms of positioning, right, and we're talking transitioning, you know, how do we even start? Where do we start to look at if we say we want to transition our career? And we want to position ourselves for the future relevance, right? Where do we start from? So for me, the first point of departure is where do you want to be? So a lot of us think I want to be CEO, chief operations officer, we often are looking at titles as opposed to experiences. So I always say to my clients, okay, this is where you are. This is where you wanting to be. What is the experience you want? Because if you know the experience you want, it doesn't matter what happens in the future, the titles could change, the platforms could change, but you would have that experience. I'll use an example. I love writing. I think I want to write for a newspaper. I love communicating with people. And then all of a sudden, actually, no, it's not just writing and storytelling. I want to do it in person. So now the platform could be TikTok. 10 years ago, a little bit of YouTube. So whatever it is that you're wanting to experience determines where it is that you're wanting to be. When you know that, then you say, okay, these are the skills I'm going to need to be successful in that particular arena. Then you start going about navigating that transition. So it starts with what you even love to do? Yes. Absolutely. What's it? What she loved to do. That's like, I'm like, which one? Okay, so that's a good foundation. And the examples that I gave spoke to people who want to transition or who have transitioned into entrepreneurship. But even within, so I take myself as an example, I've always been in customer space. But if I want to transition, now you've just talked about acquiring skills. But what about the skills that I currently have? Because one of the concerns is, I'm in a current industry where I'm a thought leader. If I moved to another industry, the equivalent of a newbie. But how do I transition at that same level? So what is transferable in terms of skills? What should people be looking at? Beyond yes, going to acquire some technical skills, of course. But what do I bring to the table today to make me even feel like transitioning isn't going to be like another 10 years of school? That's a great question. So it's actually doing a tiny of those skills, right? So this is where I'm wanting to be. Here's what I have currently. This is what I'm brilliant at. What is the gap? Okay, I'll go to school for that. And understanding what you're great at repurposes. I have a great client of mine. She was a medical doctor. And she was like, Vumi, makeup is my passion. That's actually what I want to do. But you've got this medical training. So how do we close that gap? And it's the case of, well, you definitely know facial structures, probably more than any makeup artist ever will. The second thing you also have is an existing client base. They know you, they trust you. So let's leverage that. And how about we start playing in the aesthetic space. So you're not losing that medical training. All of a sudden, she's got a one stop shop where she does your Botox fills you up and then also does your lashes. So you don't I don't think often when we think of transition, we think it's mutually exclusive. We think we've got to release the past. And that's not how it works. You should leverage on the expertise and transfer it into where you so I always like to use the analogy of my mother will be pleased with this when she's when I had when I still did ballet, you know, in ballet, you pervade. A lot of us are thinking, I need to pivot, I need to pivot. You need to where you are leap of it and use it as a bouncing board to where it is that you're wanting to be. And also remember, if you're a thought leader in a particular area, it means it's easy for you to access thought leaders in other areas. Because you're an expert on what you do, leverage those relationships open that door. So you're not starting all of a sudden at the bottom of the barrel. You there's a little bit of experience, they look more respect there, that it's easier than to transition. Yeah, so if I was going to continue for a while, would you stop? What are the things now? I mean, with what you said, that was a beautiful one. What do you now pay attention to? Okay, so you are a thought leader in an area, and then you're transiting. What are the things that you need to pay attention to, that probably the people that you're trying to connect with need in order for you to be successful in that transition. So I think it's two four there. The first is internal. Often that imposter syndrome comes in, right? To have no experience in this, I haven't mastered this, you're gonna know I'm actually a fraud because I've never done this. And you feel that imposter syndrome because you are a novice, you've never done it before. So get comfortable in not knowing. But then saying, where are those gaps? What can I learn? Then the second thing you have to look at is the outward, right? So in having those conversations with thought leaders and realizing, oh, okay, I don't know what I don't know. But it also means I will look at it from a very fresh perspective. And often we find this, this is massive trend happening, you know, specifically in Southern Africa. And I think we see it also start to happen across the world, where people and organizations are going for disciplines that never used to be part of them. Banks are hiring engineers, because they frame of reference and how the approach of problem is fundamentally different. So you're not knowing means you can ask the kind of questions that completely change the status quo. A lot of the times we're doing things because Oh, we've always done it this way. And when you have a novice coming and say, why are we doing that? Why are we doing that? And it allows us to actually open up the industry into something new and fresh that we potentially have never thought about. We use the example of Apple. They were a tech company that the music industry never saw coming. So don't underplay your novice because it potentially could disrupt the industry you're wanting to go into. I love what you just said because so my own transitioning is not at top level. Just this year, I decided you know what I wanted to add a new scale. I wanted to just start another profession completely away from media. So I went into product management, right? I did the training. I now got a company that was willing to take me on as an intern. And I can bet you with what you just said, most times when I'm in meetings, right, because I do not like I tell them I do not know anything, you know, like I know nothing about what it is that they're doing is a description. I've not done anything around that kind of work before. It allows me that freedom, that naivety to be able to ask the questions that they were very blind to. So now we're creating systems that is a lot more empathetic towards the customer's journey because there's somebody that's seen things in a completely different perspective, right? So I mean, when when you want to transition, I am not transitioning to like a superior role and I'm willing to go back to the is that a good thing because some people also look at it that no, I've done 14 years like what Uti had mentioned earlier. I think she's just mentioned it in passing. I've done 14 years. I've done 20 years as a customer experience expert. But now let us say that the future work is in the tech space and I really do not have any expertise. And I want to go into that tech space, you know, to build something from there. Is it a wise move to then go back to start from scratch? I think you by virtue of the fact that you're leaving what you've done before, there's an element that's always going to be starting from scratch. And even if you're looking at your 14 years and you're thinking, oh, that's fine. In two years time, you'll be starting from scratch and how you do that, right? You're constantly adapting it for what's happening on ground. So for me, I think you need to get comfortable knowing that the future is always changing your knowledge. Historically, I think nothing is ever wasted. It can always be reapplied and adapted and used and repurpose for where it is that you're going. But I think where people get frustrated is that that does not always equate to the money. Because that's necessary to be talking about. Yeah, you know what? Let's take a break. Money matters. It requires time. Stay with us. We'll right back. All right. Thanks for staying with us. Now, if you just tuned in, we're discussing career transitioning and we have with us, Vumi, career transitioning for the future. I mean, so before we went on a break, you talked about money. I can't mention my salary outside. I can't mention how much they are paying me. So how do you strike that balance? Right? And I hear you correctly. You're right to say that as long as you have that experience is never wasted, right? Even though it seems like you're starting from scratch, that experience will play a huge role in how you would leap very quickly in the new career that you're in. And I think I'm experiencing it because it just is just happening very quickly for me based on the kind of experience I've had in other industries, right? So I was going to say that how do we then strike that balance, right? If we say, yes, we're doing the transition and all of that and the monetary part, you know, is a big deal. So how do we balance that? So I often say to my clients, often we think with career transitioning, it's either or. And I like and. Okay? So I'll use myself as example. When I was transitioning from my cushy executive role into communications and running Africa, it's fantastic. But I'm really passionate about this career coaching thing. Career coaching is not going to give me a driver. It's not going to make me travel the whole world. It's not there yet. So what I did is I slowly built it side by side, the art of the side hustle, until I established enough credibility here that at least it was now matching. Then I moved across. So if it's possible, and this is very, very fortunate now, is obviously the geography is no longer an issue. So if you're saying I'm in Nigeria and I'm currently working in the tech space, but my passion really is in the marketing space. A little bit less sleep and you could be doing that in Australia and giving yourself that exposure and slowly gaining that credibility where you've got extra revenue, which is always great, and then slowly start merging the two. So often I also ask people where you are now and where you're wanting to be is there an end. You work in tech, you are interested in marketing, digital marketing perhaps. So often people are like, oh I never thought I could do both. And often then if you do both for a while it allows you to come with that credibility, not drop the salary, and then as you start becoming an expert, you can all of a sudden then you can slowly walk away or moonwalk from what you used to do. And attract the same salary. So everything we've talked about so far speaks to I've made the decision to transition. But very many people today are working in jobs they don't love. What are there or are there any, I don't know if it's signs or things we should be looking out for or how should we start to think because I don't think a lot of people think that transitioning is possible. How can that start to become something that's more accessible to people because I mean tech today is booming and people are like you said I want to be a product manager right that's one of the careers and it's almost future proof at the moment. But how do we start to, how do people start to connect with the possibilities of transitioning? So it's a very fair effect so let's be honest here we live in Africa. Our economies, yes 16 of the 26 economies of process growing are here but we have real problems and often we are employed from a survivalist perspective. Some of us are even selling hair doing whatever to survive. It's got very little to do with passion but a lot to do with hunger pangs okay. So for me I've always advised my clients to take a look at you know the Japanese philosophy of the 80 guy where it's literally four quadrants. It's what you love, what you're good at, what you get paid for and what the world needs. So what do you love? Make a list of all of it okay. What are you good at? What do you have that natural affinity for? Make a list of all of it. What do you get paid to do? What is the problem you're solving currently? Make a list of that and if you had a check that said you could solve any problem what would it be for you? Once you put into those four quadrants you say okay I get paid for this. This is what I'm naturally good at okay so it's probably more of a professional piece. So what I love how can I slot that in? What problem do I want to solve? How can I slot this in? And then I did something very interesting. I went to my existing organization. I said listen I really really like teaching. I'm passionate about it at the time a bank and they said oh we've actually got a volunteer program. So if you want to teach you can teach on Saturdays and we will pay that charity the salary we pay you per hour. So all of a sudden on Saturday I'm living for Saturdays because I get to teach accounting which I hate but I'm teaching right and I do that for three hours and all of a sudden I'm like wait I've really been enjoying this. Then I'm tutoring and I'm like wait it's actually not teaching it's coaching that I love and I was able to see that because now I'm like I'm getting exposure to discovering without losing my salary. So just by looking at those four quadrants it starts to nudge you in the right direction and if your work is awful make sure that there's an expression that you love within your week. How can you start in a Saturday or Sunday we can express yourself in something that you love. Look give you some side hustle ideas and then you can start making that transition. How easy can those transitions be because the areas are different you know countries are different I mean in Nigeria here things are not the way they are in South Africa. So for people and then globally some people want to transit to other climbs and some people want to come down this way so how easy can it be for one to transit from one career to the other from one location to the other and what do they need to look out for. So no it's not easy at all so I remember when I told my family I'm going to build a business in Nigeria and I was like eh. I started literally at home all I did was watch Naughtywood I would only listen to a Nigerian music I would only order a Nigerian food. I lived in Nigeria in my mind long before I arrived here. So by the time I got you the nuances the jokes and I knew what all I was there's such things I knew because I immersed myself in the culture when you immerse yourself in the culture of a people you get to understand their psychology and their way of life and they challenge us so you're not coming from the other side. What is NEPA? If coaching doesn't pan out Hollywood is waiting for you. I'm telling you, you will do fantastically well. No boys, it's not even that. Whether I coaching is even working she's just on. It's skits. It's skits. She's like I think she's my first she's my first my first was a ticket to winning that YouTube money. You immerse yourself and that allows you to then be able to transition and it really shifts how you show up because remember my my perspective of a South African in Nigeria it gives people a push up never thought about it that way it's a different frame of reference but I'm still being able to be locally relevant. So you want to you want to be able to do both and the more you do it the easier gets we've just opened up our offices in Kenya and did the exact same thing. I was like okay it's your party listening to South East Seoul understanding how Kenyans approach and often we think this right you go to a country once and you like you see Johannesburg or you see Nairobi you see ladies like Ketan you're like oh I know please I know Nigeria have you been to other states? Do you know how other people approach things? And they've been to motion. Exactly. It really for me it helps you there but then don't throw out what you know because that's what's often missing in the market. So I want to just piggyback again to Noma's question I'm sure since you are Nigerian we'll also give you a Nigerian name. Oh it's a full name. Full name. Full name. Full name. Full name. Full name. Full name. Full name. You know since you would understand the concept of JAKPA everybody wants to leave the country and everybody feels like the the past year is greener at the other side. They want to transition careers and they're thinking right is there is there a major red flag to look out for? As Nigerians. Because Nigerians right now there are some you will not tell them anything. They just believe that until I leave this country my career is not going to is going to be better. Things are not going to improve. Things will not improve and all of that. You know so when you see those kind of people what council would you give to the people that want to transition but they're not even thinking within Nigeria. I want to transition into a different career and I want to go abroad to do that. How would you would it be the same structure of approach that you would you would tell for them? So I would say if you're thinking about leaving the country the very first thing you need to think about is one way do you want to go and why do you want to leave. I know I chose like is it not obvious. So a lot of people be like oh but it's the power issue we've got power issues in South Africa as well. I think there wasn't power for almost almost 24 hours yesterday for my mom right. So don't think everything's as good as it seems. So my first thing is reach out to people on LinkedIn have the conversation people are living there. The second thing is expose yourself to that market whilst in Nigeria. What do I mean. Look at remote working. You know a lot of my stuff here was like I just want to leave. And I was like that's interesting I need people who are in Nigeria but I can I'm happy to pay you what I pay my stuff and rents or something like okay you still get exposed to the markets you come into the country etc. So I'd say look at both sides of the coin and also remember something when you pack up and you leave you're not going to be treated the way you get treated at home. I always make the joke that I didn't know I was African and so I got to America. I wasn't away. Obviously everyone around me is African. You get there and they're like you're African. I was like. I'm like you say that as if it's an insult. Right. So there's also some opportunity costs that you're going to leave. And also think about this and I know they're just never like when I say this but you live in the biggest economy on the continent where it is literally the last frontier for opportunities for growth. Everyone is trying to come in. It's interesting you're trying to go out. So how can you make sure that you can generate the same kind of lifestyle because it's always a money issue. If you're able to earn in dollars and spend in matters what a pleasure. Hallelujah baby. Why not stay here? You're preaching to the fire. My best friend. But I'm voomid. We're running out of time and I just want to ask this last or this question. I'm not sure if it's the last one but we've had all these conversations around transitioning but I want to use a catchphrase that is now everywhere. Future proofing. So even in transitioning today right we're all talking about transitioning from a place of choice but then if we take 10 years ago their jobs that existed that are pretty much redundant. Redundant now. So it almost seems like transitioning is no longer a choice but should be part of your career. Yes. Because at some point in my view how would you what should people be looking at? How would that process work if I was going to plan transitioning as part of your career? So if you were coaching me and you were like actually you know what this is your career it's good. So for me I always tell people the average person will have eight careers in their lifetime. So that's the first thing. So whether you want or not you're going to transition at least eight times. Some of us more than others. Okay. So it helps you to understand that from the get go. The second thing is I love the concept of future proofing but it's very difficult to do because you don't know what you don't know. There were jobs that were future proof until COVID hit. What did Mike Tyson say? Everyone's got a plan until someone punches you in the face. And life tends to do that. So for me it's always a case of how do you diversify your skill set? How do you make sure that okay I might be like I'm an accountant by training worked in operations worked in strategy and now I'm in the human capital space. But it's always a case of always wanting to know a little bit about everything and then seeing the trends. We're very fortunate in Africa that we get to observe the rest of the world before it hits us. So and my team's always off because I'm looking at other coaches and I'm like what's the name? What's the name? Okay this is coming soon. It's like a trailer, right? Coming soon. So, so. It's like kind of soon then. Then, prepare or die. You have like five to ten moving times now. That's awesome. It's different from how I die. So I mean I don't even know where to start with. Just let the laughter just settle down and see fit. But there's also a career in comedy too. Yeah. I think about it. We've come to the open comedy career. So you've come to the top and you said eight so you're only like 50% of women. So we're just, you know, just build them in. There's time. You know, so I was going to say that again, the future of media is changing. So I mean the other day I was, my sister and I were looking at this new art, Ashake. Many years ago, if you wanted to like get your music heard, it's, you go, you go on probably a radio station, you beg them please, can you play my CDs? You go around us. But you see, the social media space came and changed that entire monopoly. And now you can just literally sit down where you are, release a video and if people love it, you're a night, an overnight star. Right. Things are really changing. You know, I don't know how much of the changes that are happening within the media space that we should be looking out for. I know you rightly said something. TikTok now has taken over all social media spaces. I mean, a lot of businesses, serious businesses that thought TikTok was a joke. Most of them are opening TikTok accounts, but they're saying that that's where the future is going. So people that have created careers and within the social media or maybe let's say creative space, right. What is the wisdom to approaching their career sustainability? Right. Because it was a time that it was you were a star when you were on Twitter. Now the stars are on TikTok, right. How should they be approaching it? Do you just keep on as the apps are coming? You keep on following the app or is there a better structure that can help to keep a balance with those kinds of careers? So I think it becomes important for you to realize that you do what you do. What these things are are platforms and you have to adapt accordingly to that platform. Right. So on a fantastic study that was showing that a social media engagement is almost triple on TikTok. So you have 17.6% guaranteed engagement on TikTok as opposed to Facebook which is dropped. Yes. Right. It's under 5% and I think Instagram is in about 13%. So that's that's a big differential. Yeah. So for me, it's a case of how do I then take my content and then adapt it for this platform? How do I take this content? So I'm looking at Instagram. I'm comfortable on Instagram. I do my lives. Great. TikTok for me. I'm like, how do I make my point in a minute? And I've literally I've gone to TikTok experts and I'm having this conversation because I talk about careers and they were like what you guys say use your personality. You're funny. Just do it. And I'm like, but it takes me a while to do that. So I've now got to take a look at what I do for TikTok. YouTube, I remember when I did my my Ted Talk, everyone was like, it has to be 20 minutes. I did it in seven because I'm realizing I'm not going to listen. 20 minutes. 20 minutes. Are you kidding me? It's too long. I could have had a sandwich. So you know, you need to eat a slice of pizza and it must be done. So you can do it shorter. Be an expert of what you do but learn to tell it for your audience. Absolutely. Otherwise, you will lose them. Absolutely. So you have a quickly a last question. Second. For those who do not know where they can find themselves in all of this space, maybe they're the what do I call them? The oldies, so to speak, but they still want to be relevant to today's world. Are these the only options or what else would you advise somebody as a means of approach towards becoming relevant even in today's world but finding what works with them or what's comfortable with them. So I think that if you have done things the way you've always done it, you have to realize so did Kodak and they're not cheering you. My darling, tell that again, Blackberry. Blackberry is gone. Nokia is gone. So for me, it becomes a case of dual-competence analysis. What is everyone in your industry doing? Where are they? Jump on that bandwagon and learn to master it. We're all uncomfortable. It's all very, very difficult for us. I didn't like talking live on Instagram. It was very, I'm like, I'm talking to a screen. No one's here. And I just got better and better and better and I practiced and so I got comfortable. You're going to have to be uncomfortable because that is where growth happens. Absolutely. What do you have? Awesome. So we have a comment from Bobby Kennedy in Jalingo in Tarrabah. Says, career transitions. One of the principles of great men and women who become successful in their life. They never, never give up on their dreams. They look at themselves as real champions in the real life history. So they can change people, people, mental thinking from negativity to positivity in their life in general. Thank you so much. All right. So if you had one final thing to say to anyone that is listening out there, what would you say? Vumi. I would say you are the CEO of your career. You are solely responsible for it. And a lot of us allowing our careers to happen to us. Become a little bit more intentional. Plan your career at least for the next three to five years. And remember, it is not just about the title. CEO is very, very nice. Very nice. She has switched to South Africa in case you did not notice. But you really have to focus on the experience you want in your career. His life is very, very long. You spend most of it in building your career. Make sure it's an experience that enriches you and enriches others. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Vumi. Are you wanted to clap? Let's talk a little bit. I am, I am, I am. We had fun. Fantastic. Well, I mean, we hope you come back again. I would never forget. We love you. Exactly. We love you already. Thank you so much. I think we had a fantastic conversation. I mean, these days, our Fridays is back to, we are just giving you people back-to-back content. You should be selling offering. We'll send you your phone number. You pay Titan offering for this information because I mean, thank you so much. I know this would help a lot of people that are out there listening and watching the show. Thank you so much, ladies. Thank you, Uti. Thank you, Norma. Now before we go and show you followers on Instagram, follow us there. Twitter, all that way so Africa can interact with us. Further drop a comment. And more importantly, follow all our engagements on social media, like she had invited families and friends to watch and follow the conversation. Now, if you missed today's quote, here it is again. And I think she stressed it in a bit when she was talking about it. It is never too late to be what you might have been. So do not leave to say, oh, no, no, it's too late. It's never too late. So today is the right time to start. Build that career and you'll be successful at it. We'll see you guys live on Monday at 8 p.m. So bring another great conversation to your screen. Enjoy.