 Good morning, you're welcome to the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. My name is Romare Paulsen. And I am Nyamul Agker. You were sincerely apologised that we're beginning the programme a little bit late this morning. But sometimes you plan, like my brother would say, Man proposes God rearranges and that's what happened to us this morning. But we're glad that we're finally here and we're going to make the best use of the remaining time that we have. So we cannot say it's too late. We cannot say we cannot do anything anymore. But for the small moments that we have together, let's make them count. All right. Well, once again, we sincerely apologise. And right now we'll be going to our first hot topic. All right. And joining us to have a conversation is Nik Agulay. This one talks about IMF predicts Nigeria price levels to surge by 23% by 2025. Nik Agulay would like to welcome you and warn you beforehand that while we're talking on this topic, we might need to touch a little bit on some of the headlines on newspapers, just to butter what we will be discussing today. We may start off the press. So we might just mention a few things from the newspapers this morning as we're talking with you. Well, in the meantime, good morning, Nik. And welcome to the breakfast on this day. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning to our viewers globally. Good morning. Good morning to you. Okay. So let's just take some headlines here. And leading with the punch, it says, airbify marketers feel subsidy claims wrong. The writers on this one says, bring evidence of subsidy payments. Look what we retell is airbify marketers. NNPC insists is recovering full cost marketers pegged petrol at 900 naira per litre. Another one here on the punch says, carousel links depleting reserves to debt repayments. And the writer says CBN stops banks from lending 50% of deposits. On the Guardian, we have poor funding model. Positis stole $3.2 billion Eastern Rail project three years after. Another one here is talking about what's happening with the PDP. It says, all eyes on PDP, PDP governors as are you lawsuit withdraw? Autism balance for Damagom. Another one says, federal government kicks as canalist conditions for resumption of trial. Court affirms, can do this sack APC kicks. Why Nigeria's foreign reserves dipped by carousel? If we move over to the Guardian, we have CBN not using reserves to defend Naira. And that is by carousel. We'll also have the train eight. Well, it says contract dispute threatens Nigeria's LNG expansion plans. And also for the PDP says PDP governors move to a vat implosion. Also, the rising price prices of foodstuffs FCCPC deploys operators to markets. And then on the Daily Trust, well, it leads with governors at TECU, we can test strength as PDP neck meeting holds today. And the writers on this one says, are you withdraws suit against party? NWC passes vote of confidence on Damagom. And the North Central insists on completing our use term. So those are the stories, some of the headlines on national dailies. So before we enter into what we're really talking, which is part of the headlines, would like your general comments on some of the headlines that we have on national dailies, rather this morning before we delve into the issue at hand. Thank you very much. Let me start with the foreign reserves. Foreign reserves are depleting, but the civilian governor has come forward to say that he is not using the foreign reserves to defend the Naira. That is to push dollars into the market so that it will show up the value of the Naira. That they are using the foreign reserves to pay debts. That's his explanation. I'm not in a position to say it's true or not, but I have come to understand that governments do tell you something, but the reality is different. And this very government has done something like, for instance, they told us the subsidy is gone. Now we hear that they are paying as much as $600 billion per month for the subsidy. And that is actually in line with the reality because oil prices, as we speak now, are nearing the $90 per battery levels, and so we cannot continue buying petrol at the same price if there were no fuel subsidies. But if it turns out that they are actually using foreign reserves to defend the Naira, I'm not supportive of such a policy because I always ask the question, in whose benefit is a strong Naira? What people see as beneficiaries of a strong Naira are those who want to import stuff into Nigeria or who want to pay foreign school fees or want to pay hospital fees or travel abroad. Those are the people that are interested in a strong Naira. Otherwise, a weak Naira is the one that will help Nigeria to export more things because then our goods will be cheaper. And what the government needs to do is instead of defending the Naira, the government should just roll up their sleeves and start creating the enabling environment to return Nigeria to productivity because the basic problem that this country faces now is low output. We are not producing enough and that is why there is unemployment and that is why there is inflation. Once we return to productivity, then things will begin to sort themselves out and we cannot produce with 3,000 megawatts of electricity. So that is where they actually need to go back to. Talking about politics, for me it is very concerning that the parties cannot even manage their own parties. Parties that want to manage Nigeria, the APC, the PDP, the Labour Party, they want to manage Nigeria, but they cannot even manage their own parties. If you cannot manage your party, then how are you not going to manage Nigeria? So all these parties are embroiled in all sorts of internal issues and they are all bordering on lack of internal democracy. Parties that cannot even conduct elections into their National Working Committee, they look at INEC and they are talking to INEC, you cannot conduct elections in your party. So why am I not a spokesman for INEC? I am saying maybe they perhaps need to go and start cleaning up their own houses before they even think about what happens at the National. So those are some of my first thoughts on the Nisopa headlines. Okay, so how about we move over to the one about fuel subsidy. So it says, L-Refai marketers fuel subsidy claims wrong and that is by the federal government and NNPC. And in fact, Lopubiri has told L-Refai to bring evidence of subsidy payment. He was speaking to L-Refai and the marketers and NNPC insists it is recovering full cost of marketers per petrol at 900 naira per litre. So how about this? Because some people are saying that there is a quasi-subsidy that has been paid because if you're looking at how the dollar had gone up, if we're still paying the same amount, which is about 568 naira from NNPC, then it makes no sense. For every single time when the dollar rises, we expect that fuel should also go up with it. And when the dollar comes down or when the naira gains strength in this case, we expect that it should be better as well. So what do you think about this? Do you think there is a quasi-subsidy that is being paid by the federal government without us knowing and no one is being transparent enough to let us know? There is some sort of magic that is happening in Nigeria that we can continue to buy petrol at the same price when global oil prices are rising because the oil price is actually the biggest factor, contributory factor to how much you pay at the pump. And in Nigeria, it is compounded with exchange rates, since we are importing and not producing it locally. But you will see that within this time that President Chinibu said, fuel subsidy is gone. And we started buying petrol, like you said, at NNPC depoprise of 500 and something, and then the price at the pump of 600 and something. That was almost like a year ago when the president made that announcement and then we got these prices to this level. Between that time and now, oil prices have swung from the $60 to the $90. And there is no way oil prices will be swinging like that. And the price that Nigerians are paying at the pump remains the same. It's impossible except it is some magic. If we are magicians who can work at the mass, but if we are not magicians, I can tell you that the refineries are broad where we are going to buy petroleum products. They are not into charity. They are into business. So immediately oil prices begin to rise. They increase their cost of refining and they transfer those costs into the cost of petroleum products. So there's no way Nigeria can say that, oh, despite the fact that oil prices are rising from the $60 range to the $90 range, the refineries are broad and still not increasing our prices. So the evidence is empirical. Even if the government does not provide any evidence that they are paying subsidies, the evidence is empirical. You can see that there's just no way you can continue buying petrol at this same price. And imagine that dollar rose to $1,800 and still petrol was at the same price. The mass simply doesn't add up. All right. Okay, so let's move over to the crux of the matter this morning. And this is talking about Governors' Way barring PDPs at TIKO weekend from NEC meetings. Now, concerned groups of people, People's Democratic Party PDP, you know, have called on the Board of Trustees about this. What is your take on this whole issue? Yes. So my take is, I take off from the point I let it off during the New Super Review. You know, it's a shame that the political parties in Nigeria who are yearning for our votes to govern Nigeria cannot govern themselves. They are unable to govern themselves. I think they can't govern themselves. They can't conduct primaries, for instance. Political parties conduct primaries amongst their members. And these primaries are so far from anything democratic and it ends up in all sorts of legal cases in court and all that. And these are parties that now say, oh, I have the capacity to rule Nigeria. It's impossible, you know. So all that is happening. And like I said, all the major parties in Nigeria are having these issues. The APC, you know what is happening there now. The PDP is what we're talking about now. The Labour Party, you see what is happening there. Parties that have no coercion. Parties that can't even fix themselves. So as Nigerians, we're in re-trouble. And for me, the citizens need to get more involved in the governance process. Citizens need to work up from where they are sitting. Because where we are sitting now, anything that is thrown at us, we just take it, you know. And we're looking at parties who cannot even sort themselves out. And then tomorrow we're going to trooper to be casting votes for these parties. We should punish these parties at the pause. The parties should be aware that what they are doing, we are watching. And when the elections come, we will punish them. It's better for Nigerians to even go and cast their votes for unknown parties to sweep elections, to punish these major parties. So what's happening in the PDP is not usual. This is the problem. There's a power play between the weak group and the rest of the group where perhaps some of the governors are. This party has never had a next meeting for a long time and the man who is there, a certain chairman, has been there. They have been trying to have the next meeting. It has not been possible. Let's hope that this time around, their terms that they are making, they will be able to have this next meeting. They will be able to put their ass together and they will be able to show Nigerians that indeed they have the capacity to come back into power. Otherwise, this is simply too shoddy. Too shoddy, an arrangement, and it's very helpful. I am Professor Chris Mustafa Wokobia Jr., a convener of Country First Movement, and he will also be lending his voice to some of the things that we'll be talking about today. You see, today we're looking at the headlines and also at one of the very prominent headlines here. So we are going to be joined by, we're being joined actually by Chris Wokobia Jr. Good morning and welcome to the program, sir. Professor, okay, as soon as we are able to connect with him, we are going to bring him on to also give us his thoughts on some of the things that are happening right now. We've seen the situation. We'll come back to what we're talking about. We've seen the situation where the APC, these are some of the headlines, the APC is a national chairman, has been suspended by his ward, which eventually carries his name anyway, Ganduja ward in his state, and then the local government executive said no. The state executive said no, and the national executive said no, and now they're blaming opposition party, even though these concerns are coming from the EFCC, some of the allegations that are leveled against him. That's on the one hand. And then we see an ex-governor, who was supposed to be arrested yesterday to face the court this morning, who was smuggled out of his residence by a sitting governor of that state, and we're just concerned about what this art democracy looks like to the outside world. How would you describe these two scenarios? An APC national chairman being suspended and every other person, apart from the word executive, is saying that that cannot stand, even though the court has pronounced it. And then another one, who is supposed to be arrested, an ex-governor, is being smuggled out by a sitting governor, which means they are resisting arrest, and the governor is aiding and abetting, well, for now, forgive me if I call him the criminal. Suspected criminal? Suspected criminal, yes. Yes. So, these are the kind of headlines, these are the kind of headlines that make us to worry. As much as we have the confidence about Nigeria, we have hope in Nigeria, we believe that Nigeria, we rise up from the ashes and take its rightful place in the community of nations. News like this, you know, step us back from that optimism that we carry. Because first and foremost, for the APC national chairman, yes, it is in the right of his word executive to suspend him because that is where your party membership begins. Every party member registers at the world. And the world is where matters that are related to your membership of the party are decided. So, if the world executives have sat and said this man, based on all the corruption cases against him, is no longer worthy to lead the party at the national level and therefore, we are suspending him from his duties as a party man. They are in their right to do so. And for those who are now trying to reroute the world executives who are now trying to stampede the world executives, some are even raised somewhere that they were removed from the office and all of that, they should follow due process. And the due process is either to follow the party's internal dispute resolution mechanism or they should go to court. But coming now to make a kind of grandstanding statement that shows if you are above the law you can do what you want to do. You can decide irrespective of what the law says or what the constitution of the party says it is your word that will be heard. These things are things like it cannot think that should happen in military regimes where you have some military strongman who wins a gun and just gets his decision done whether people like it or not. They should never have a place in a democracy. And for me the parties just need to get their house in order because the way they are carrying on they are showing the whole world that they don't have the capability to be able to manage Nigeria. Now coming to the other issue that happened at the residence of the former Kogiste governor again this is the kind of lawlessness that is being perpetrated by people in the highest levels of authority in Nigeria people that are public servants civil servants the word servant means these guys are serving us they are our employees but the law did over us they run roughshod over the laws the laws that they place their hands on the constitution they buy what they could run and saw that they would defend they are the first to break it and the action of the Kogiste governor yesterday is shameful and we can understand that he is doing everything in his powers to be able to pay back to his master who run roughshod over every structure in Kogiste to make him governor but this is not the way to pay him back he don't pay him back by stopping the arms of the law from getting this man and I wonder how far he is going to run with him is he going to take him into exile outside the country or he is just going to keep him somewhere without the man ever coming out because once he comes out he is going to be in the house of the law and actually the law must take his course if he is found to have wrong things then he has to he has to stand for that he has to pay for that until we get to that point in Nigeria we are not going to have a good country I tell people former US president Donald Trump he is in court he is successful your Biden he is in court his own son is in court that is the way democracy runs whoever you are the law should be above you but what happened yesterday at the residence former Kogi state governor shows that there are some people who are above the law in Nigeria and that should be the case I understand because a group came out to say that it is an opposition party that is trying to rubbish the APC national chairman so that the president will have no option then to remove him from office and I was just laughing what business does the president have to go and influence the party constitution and remove a party chairman in those days party leaders used to be different from political appointees or political office holders now it seems as if if you have the highest office in the state or in the country you automatically become the leader of the party which means you can do anything that you want to do I don't understand how these have things changed or this is just because Nigerian politicians just choose to do whatever they want to do does the president even have that kind of power to remove a chairman of a party the president does not have such powers the president can only influence the removal of a party chairman because like we said he transforms his world and goes through the state executive to the national executive so the party constitution is very clear as to how a chairman is appointed, is disciplined and is removed and the president unilateral on his own shouldn't and I say shouldn't because in Nigeria anything goes who knows if the president decides that a large Ganduja is no longer wanted to be a party chairman but that body language alone the fate of the chairman will be put paid so what we are looking for is that instead of coming up with differences like an opposition party is throwing all sorts of things at the party chairman the party chairman if he didn't do anything wrong should approach the court and plead his innocence because those who are accusing him or wrongdoing they are expected to bring evidence to court to show that this is where he was wrong this is where he did the wrong things and if he didn't do the wrong things he can also show evidence and prove himself and get himself out of the arms of the law that is the way he will pray what can't we just let the law take his natural course this whole issue of saying nobody should be charged some people even go to court to say the court should stop a court process you know it's in Nigeria I see this kind of things and you know and we can never make headway with the development of this democracy if we don't want to be a nation that is being run by the laws until the rule of law reigns supreme I don't think there's any nation in the world that is doing well that is prosperous is thriving that the rule of law does not reign supreme the rule of law has a direct link with the prosperity of nations and the stability of nations and the security of nations and not in Nigeria gets there I don't think we want to even start yeah well we may come back to that the political angle that we're looking at in all these issues but whatever happens in politics affects us as well today there's one of these headlines that is saying that consumer protection agency has deployed its men to markets to go and see how they can make sure that prices come down and I'm just wondering we have we still have a case of the woman the tomato reviewer and the Erisco foods and all that I hear the case is going to be called up today or something like that consumer protection seem to have done nothing actually and today they are deploying people into the markets because the prices of things are really high I don't know what you think about that move because that's what the government is giving as far as we are concerned it's a wrong move a totally wrong move we cannot have a government that is saying I am quoting investors they then coming and the same government is raiding markets and saying your price is too high what is the determinant of the price what is the determinant those federal consumer protection people that are going to be in the market what is the criteria if they see a module of Gary and it is 1000 what how do they not determine that oh this module of Gary should not be 1700 what is the basis what are they using are they the ones that went to the market to buy are they the ones that are cultivating the cassava are they the ones that are not paying jesus at one five to grind the Gary are they the ones that in the light of fuel price hike are they transporting the Gary from the point of production to the point of sale and at how much are they the ones that are not paying electricity at these new rates to be able to produce the Gary are they the ones that are paying the rent in the in the stores where the Gary is being sold what would be their basis for saying your price is too high so you see the problem the problem of inflation in Nigeria you know it's about productivity so I will talk about productivity so go back again full square to productivity you know the basic economics says the price of any commodity or service is determined by demand or supply now in Nigeria supply is what is the terminal prices but people in government think is demand is not demand is supply they are not looking at the supply side of the economics if the supply of a commodity is small the price of that commodity we go up and you know the other day I was talking about telecoms at night providing telecoms telephones to Nigerians because night was only able to provide about 500,000 lines to all Nigerians the price of telephone was very high because the lines were so small people were scrambling for them to the extent that I sold my own wife's phone for 150,000 more than 20 years ago the empty ends and when they came in they increased the supply as we are speaking today there are close to 200 million active telephone lines in Nigeria and the price has collapsed you know just think about 500,000 to 200 million and that is why a sim card now is almost like for free and you don't have to pay what you used to pay so if Nigeria wants to deal with inflation we need to go and look at the supply side of the economics this country is not producing especially food you know in the last data that was released by the national bureau for statistics MBS it says food inflation is now above 40% and what is the reason? 1. the farmers who were in their farms producing small small food for us are not there again driven away by bank-dictory and all sorts of criminality into RDP camps and under presidentinibu it has continued 2. even the farmers who are in farms today they are producing so little food because it is not mechanized they are using their manual labor a farmer who is using his manual labor can only produce as much if you give him a machine like a tractor he can produce 1,000 times more food than he is currently producing 3. we are importing food but because of the increase in the cost of the dollar it has been transferred into the cost of the import so this is the thing that is making food inflation to gallop to this level and if Nigeria wants to solve it it is not by sending federal officials into the market to go and harass business people it is by saying what are we going to do to increase the supply of food in Nigeria and there are short term medium term and long term measures and those are the areas that the government needs to be looking into the policies that the government is making are the ones that are affecting us so much so much so just to wrap up about what we really intended to talk about this morning what will be your recommendations for internal party politics because when they don't get it right within the family they cannot get it right in the national space so what are your some of your recommendations as fast as possible so that we can wrap up my recommendations are that all the political parties in Nigeria must allow internal democracy to happen it is possible they don't like people they don't like each other as a family they have their squabbles but everything has to be done under the law and if they follow due process then it is a signal to us the electorate that they are a party that we follow due process if they are handed Nigeria or the state or the local government to manage and until they do that to me it is very shameful that we have the kind of situation my recommendation is that Nigerians need to come up from where they are we are sitting to those side the parties and the political leaders have no need to fear us and once a citizen regains themselves into that position they are never going to get good governance the difference between Nigeria the UK or US or Germany or France or elsewhere is that the leaders they know that the citizens are fully engaged in the governance process and the leaders are constantly monitoring the mood of the people they are watching the reaction of the people and their actions are based on what they think the reaction of the people will be until we get ourselves into that position where our political leaders will begin to fear us in Nigeria who will begin to look at us and say if I do this kind of thing Nigerians are going to punish me until we get there we are never going to get good governance from Nigeria so for me it even goes beyond the political parties this game has to be played by the people and it is the people who we say no and even their body language we show that if we do this we are going to punish you like this until we get to that position where politicians fear us we are never going to get good governance in this country very much Nick sorry that we had to bide a lot of things on you we just combined a lot of things bombarded you that's the word but it's been a pleasure having you on the show this morning thank you so much it's not a problem Nigeria is ours and everything that is needed to get Nigeria working we will all do it thank you and nice day to have thank you Nick we have been talking with Nick Agule we were concerned about what was happening in the PDP and so many other parties that are supposed to take the lead in our political space but we were combining that with some aspects of the press and we are going to continue with that because we are being joined by Chris Wokubia Mustafa Wokubia Jr the convener of Country First yes we will go on a short break and when we return we will have Chris joining us and we will take more stories from the headlines please stay with us