 David Brown, a broad bit, who is going to tell us about a better battery now. What's all this about? Because I gather it's not just four vehicles, it's generally a better battery. Tell us about it. So it's a platform technology, it's a new battery chemistry based on sodium, not on lithium, but we're able to achieve twice the energy density per kilogram of lithium. Now we're told that there's sodium metal and there's sodium iron, so which is it? That's right, so this is metallic sodium. It's metallic sodium, I see. Right, that sounds explosive. Well let's say if you put a lot of energy in a small place, you have a lot of energy in a small place. So if you want high energy batteries, you have high energy. No, but I mean, you obviously have done the work and I'm being frivolous, but this technology is developed to the point where what? You would sell intellectual property, you would sell batteries. Yeah, so the state of the affairs is we're making coin cells now, so we've proven this technology and this performance at the coin cell level. We're preparing to make our first cylindrical cells to prove it at the cylindrical cell level, and the business plan is that broad bit produces the electrolyte and the electrodes for assembly by a third party, whether that be a white good manufacturer or another brand name, and then either we sell the batteries under our brand or we sell the electrodes for a third party to sell under their brand and the electrolyte. Okay, so you're in the business of finding partners, and you're a startup? Yes. How long are you funded for? You must in addition to that be needing funding? Indeed, so right now we're completely self-funded up until now and a total of about 400k has been put into the company and now we're looking for a bigger outside investment to match some government funding we have now, so that's the state of affairs. Oh good, okay, and have you done any prototypes of larger batteries? No, so right now it's just at the coin cell level. You've done a sampling of the coin cells and when you say you're going to do some cylindrical ones next, are they a standard lithium-ion size or an AA? 18650. It is an 18650, so you're not going in the intermediate group? No. Okay, and tell us about the advantages, tell us about compared with I mean at the moment we're in the decade the lithium-ion battery aren't really, I'm talking electric vehicles here, but lithium sulfur and other things are coming along and starting to be used a little bit, but no one including the enthusiasts for that see it taking over very rapidly and there are problems with everything, so can you feed us with some information about why, what type of vehicle that your product should appear in? Is there a sweet spot yet do you know enough to say that your chemistry would best be in a big truck massive battery or an electric bike battery or what? Well in terms of the performance we have about twice the energy density per kilogram than lithium-ion, but we're about the same volume density, so about the same energy per unit volume, so we're a weight saving battery, so any application where weight is important where the choice? 400? 400, that's exactly the point that in Elon Musk says that transatlantic flight by pure electric aircraft becomes interesting and it is already interesting we're already talking to several aircraft manufacturers who say that we will more than triple their range with our batteries over existing battery technology. Exciting, but you need cycle life and you need real life, do you have any graphs of what you do have in terms of life life? Yeah so it's relatively early in that right now so we haven't done a long term cycling, but for the high power we've done about a thousand cycles and show no measurable degradation and for the high energy we've done about a hundred cycles and again no measurable degradation, but of course we have to go longer longer cycles to prove that. And are there safety issues whenever people talk about metal anodes usually you're talking about a separator that has to be really superb I mean are there safety issues with this? Well you know for lithium ion the major reason there's catastrophic failure is dendrite formation in our batteries we have no dendrite formation at all. Oh well that's very important because some other ones do and even on a really nano scale they're much worse than lithium ion aren't they means the separators required to perform miracles. Yeah so our separator only has to physically separate it doesn't have to block dendrites or anything like that. Okay now one could get excited if the thing was solid state because we could make it part of structure and we could maybe make it non-flammable if it was an inorganic solid state. We have non-flammable electrolyte already. And is that liquid or solid? It's a liquid non-flammable electrolyte. Is it organic? I can't say more details than what I've just said. Okay you only want to think you were on camera okay so that's interesting so non-flammable is an enormous marketing thing isn't it I don't think anyone is particularly worried about the anything else other than the electrolyte burning usually in most constructions they're the electrolytes what we really stay awake at night worrying about and that would be an important thing with aircraft of course because safety is just far more important than any other vehicle. So the volume not being bigger is actually quite good isn't it because quite a lot of the alternatives to lithium ion batteries when you keep questioning these people they say well yes we've got the better watt hours per kilogram but actually it's worse than lithium. A lot of them are much bigger and that can matter you know in a car or something you're streamlining you actually want passengers you don't want battery and so if you are the same as lithium ion that is a plus actually that's good going. Do you think it could be made part of a structure and then we could throw away dumb plastic and metal that gives a huge in the real world energy density of the whole vehicle it's a big win. Yeah I see no reason why not we're not pursuing that right now because we're trying to get our first products on the market with standard sizes but there's no reason the technology couldn't do it. Oh that's really interesting and are we allowed to know what metal is of the anode and cathode or the materials? Well I can say it's sodium metal that's what I can say that's the anode. Yes I wouldn't talk about any details of the right and the current carriers and all that but they are wound components that are coming up soon okay oh well that's really and you could do flat versions no time to do prismatic or pouch or all the usual choice. So a partner is now making the first pouch sales with our technology for testing not in production yet. So if you get the funding that you want and the partners you want what's your mindset for the next 10 years? Well we plan to be the replacement for lithium ion so everything you see lithium ion we hope to be metallic sodium in 10 years. The world in one sentence good luck you've got all the right parameters including you personally. Thank you very much. Thank you.