 Jake Woods team Rubicon welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me looking forward to chatting with you guys No, Jake I have a lot of questions and I have I was very interested in what team Rubicon does so before we get into all that Why don't you just give us the backstory and set this all up for us? Sure? so Team Rubicon is a non-profit organization and what we do is we recruit train and deploy military veterans to respond to disasters, so I mean basically what we have is almost like a You know a volunteer army of first responders mostly made up of men and women who served in the actual army or the armed forces and you know, we we basically just repurpose their skills and And send them into communities that have been stricken by disaster in crisis when you think of the military and their role you don't envision disaster relief as as being a part of it and Obviously having built out a skill set in the military. There's a huge transition Afterwards of trying to figure out your way in the world. So how did disaster relief become the mission? Well, actually, it's it's interesting because you know, so I think some people could argue that the the U.S. military is the largest disaster response organization in the world You know when when really bad things happen globally or even here in the U.S. I mean, who do they call they call the military? So whether it was the earthquake in Haiti or the Nepal earthquake or you know, the Asian tsunami The Japanese tsunami, you know, these countries call on the U.S. for their ships their airplanes their helicopters to come in and You know, obviously leave your leave your weapons on the boat But come in and bring your logistics power and your your resources to bear And so it's been really fascinating You know, I kind of stumbled into this work. I served in the Marine Corps for four years did two pretty hard combat tours and Kind of stumbled into this work about two months after I got out of the Marine Corps the Haiti earthquake happened and I Felt like I had a bunch of skills and experiences that would be helpful in an environment like that I tried to volunteer with some different organizations wasn't able to and so I Organized a team to get down there a few days after the earthquake and that was really kind of the humble beginnings of the organization I love how you took this upon yourself to figure out Who was going to go down or to go down there to put this this idea in action and Upon putting it together it seemed released in your book that you weren't really sure of how you were gonna go about it Or what you were going to do once you got on the ground But those skills and the things that you had learned trained for in those and in the United States on services Certainly kicked into gear. What I found fascinating was To me I Thought this would be intuitive that that that there would be these organizations set up but yet there wasn't you had to create this or Are there some that we just didn't see or just didn't do it in quite the way that you guys went about it Well, listen, there are there's some really great Humanitarian organizations out there great disaster response organizations and we work with many of them. I think though that What has been missing is Many of those organizations They don't play well with the military if you think about it The vast majority of the world's suffering is actually the result of armed conflict, right? So you look at this terrible famine that's happening in Yemen It's one of the worst humanitarian catastrophes of the decade you look at the Syrian refugee crisis I mean, it's all caused by armed conflict and so there are some amazing groups that that respond and assist those people in those in those moments and You know, I think they naturally develop this disdain for people who serve in the military and the US military doesn't get a free pass on that but the reality is that You know, the US has had three million men and women serve since 9 11 They we spend hundreds of billions of dollars training these people and really critical skills Sending them into really austere environments with with an important mission and those missions or can't fail missions, right? You know, so these are just people who've become really adept at navigating that complexity. And so when we were in Haiti Yeah, we saw that a lot of organizations, you know struggle to navigate that chaos and we were able to really cut through it And so we were naive when we came back thinking that we could build a better model I mean, we were totally naive. We're still a little naive. We're still a little foolishly optimistic Which isn't a bad thing, but I think that our our assumption has proven true that these men and women They've got a lot to offer in these environments in the book You pointed to I think it was coming in from college I think was it a practice Where you went into one of the classes and you saw one of the towers get hit by the one of the planes And that was this this moment where you decided this was this was going to be the pivot into the armed services Outside of team sports was there anything that you can point to and Childhood or growing up or in that environment that led itself there. It just seemed that Your life was heading in a completely different direction until that very moment Oh, I actually, you know, I grew up playing team sports, but I also grew up aspiring to join the military So I you know, there was a moment when I was young where my family was living in europe and My my sisters and I with my parents we went to a place called motels and which was a a concentration camp during world war two And that was a that was a fairly impactful moment in experience for me Either way, I say it is when you're a seven-year-old boy um your sense of what evil is is wily coyote and then you go to a place where they gassed hundreds of women and children and every day and burned their bodies and ovens that you could still put your arm in You know, you got to you have a a new appreciation of what evil is and so I also then saw that that camp was liberated by us troops Under general patent and you know that just impacted me these men and these men had Cross the atlantic ocean and go help people that you know, they never met and and that was pretty inspiring and so I always thought maybe I would join the military Ended up being a good football player in high school pretty bad college football player, which is how I ended up in the marine corps, but um Yeah, 9 11 happened my freshman year and I think I think 9 11 forced everybody to reflect On the world in their role in it and for me. I really started to wonder if You know that seven-year-old version of me Uh was disappointed that you know, I was playing football instead of Defending my country and I think with the current state of military operations around the world We have more and more veterans coming back from the theater of war and combat with a skill set that they don't often realize how they can translate into civilian life And it's a difficult transition to make for veterans But there are also many of us who with no military service have training That may not fit what our new career trajectory is and we have to pivot What are the mindset pieces that you took from the military experience that allowed that pivot in rubicon to happen for you You know, I think the military You certainly invest a lot of money into training It's it's soldiers and marines and in hard skills You know, whether if you're a communications expert, you're gonna, you know, be the best You know work on the best equipment. You're gonna have the best skill sets for that But I think You know by and large it teaches people how to it teaches people how to lead it teaches people how to follow it teaches people how to Find solutions in resource constrained environments and that's a pretty underestimated skill I think perhaps most importantly people learn how to endure hardship to embrace The brutal reality of a situation and to never lose faith that they're going to accomplish the mission And listen, that's a skill. I mean, it's it's a skill. It it comes from experience It comes, you know, it's a muscle memory that you can develop and in the military just gives you a heavy dose of that early and man, particularly in 2020 with covet and just seeing how people are You know really struggling to adapt to the the hardship that this has brought and there's a lot of hardship and there's a lot of uncertainty and there's a lot of Suffering that's happening and you're seeing a lot of people kind of crumble in the face of that You know, our organization has a certain level of resilience that has allowed it to almost thrive in this environment assisting communities By just really cutting through that and focusing on the fact that people are counting us to get the job done And obviously going to these situations where disaster has struck and uncertainty and panic and devastation is at all time high How are you guys able to plug in and and work together especially across cultures in a lot of these situations? Yeah, well, I mean today's battlefields are really complex You know when we fought in Iraq and Afghanistan We fought with the largest coalitions and military history And so, you know, you you didn't stay alive on the battlefield unless you were coordinating everything that you were doing Both with your own units, but also with You know other other nations and you know other branches of service and I can tell countless stories of You know being in firefights in afghanistan and calling for air support from danish pilots You know coordinating with british troops just across the valley So I think that's that's kind of ingrained that that level of coordination is really what's going to keep you alive and maximize effectiveness And then cultural sensitivity. I mean, you know, again At least by the time that I was serving Overseas the the u.s. Military had shifted its entire mentality to what they called counter insurgency Which really at its core? focused on a a cultural It you know developing and in operating and patrolling through a lens of cultural sensitivity Now did we always get that right? No, but you really quickly understood how important it was to you know sit with these These local populations and and conveyed to them an appreciation for who they were what their culture was what their history was And that's how you that's how we ultimately turned to the tide. Now, of course that didn't last you know fast forward 10 years You know isis and all of those things but at the time it was it was really effective And so you know being able to rely on those lessons I think has been immensely valuable for us One that sticks out in my mind from dan harris while he was doing war correspondence And when he had come back over from all the The training and the work that he had done overseas and in some of these battle grounds There was he had missed the the adrenaline the camaraderie The everything that that made those situations that were you would have to I guess expand yourself to be safe and to win at those situations He found himself missing that stuff coming home. Now Would you say there was a bit of that going on that compelled you to to seek out? This this next adventure granted there is this the idea of helping people and And everything that comes involved with that but inside of coming back training yourself to be in such a state of mind and then coming home and All of those that that is such a change in atmosphere. Yeah, I mean there was a There was an excerpt that um a lot of people have pulled out of the book That's that I think is pretty early That people have been sharing around online that Talks about how you know when we finally get out of the marine corps Um, you know, we we moved home. We moved on with our lives or at least we tried to And we all realized that life had lost its flavor and you know that the passage concludes by saying At night when we closed our eyes we we yearned for war and you know, that's It's it's such an interesting dichotomy because I I got out of the marine corps because I didn't want war to Define my life. I I'd served two really violent tours Lost a lot of friends. I saw a lot of deaths a lot of destruction And you know war and all of those things in combat. We're starting to just kind of become normal. They were becoming Like oh, this is just how it is. This is going to be life And you know, I was I think I was self-aware enough to say like wow, this is actually this is not healthy And so I made the choice to get out but then yeah, I came home and It shit. Well now what you know, you're used to You know, you used to to operating with this hyper vigilance You're used to going out outside the wire and like I was a scout sniper, right? My job was to hunt people and and half the time I went out and we were on that mission Like we were actually the ones getting hunted like you're living on this you're dancing this knife's edge of life and death every single day and You know, and if you're being honest with yourself As terrible as combat is it's also exhilarating and it's it's like a drug that you I mean You know, I don't do drugs, right? But I imagine it's like a drug, right? And so even though I left the Marine Corps because I didn't want that for my life When I closed my eyes, that's what I dreamt about And it's just one of those things that you can't ever explain. You can't ever rationalize in your head It's just it is what it is. Well, there's there's a certain reason why people can They get back in the ring after getting destroyed I mean you want some of these MMA bouts and they are some of the bloodiest bone crunching things and and fact if you haven't seen it before it's it's it's quite visceral but yet Those give those guys a week of healing and they're looking for the the next match so you your body Adapts to some of the craziest environments and and we'll learn to flourish In those environments so to pluck you out of it and put you in a nice comfortable soft bed There is going to be that's going to take some time To for your body to get regular and upon Putting together this this team out of out of the blue on a whim After seeing what happened in and Haiti What would you say were some of the largest challenges that you and this team face? I mean, this was the first time that At least from from reading the book that you had experienced this sort of Adventure this this sort of mission comparatively to what you were facing in iraq as you said you were you were a sniper You were hunting the enemy here. This is this is a natural catastrophe where There the the recon is it whereas the enemy the enemy has already been through the place and destroyed it So you are now bringing order from chaos I mean there were I mean the the challenges were countless. I mean it's it's it's almost impossible to to list I mean we we didn't know what we didn't know like I said we We were naive we thought we went down to Haiti for three weeks And we knew everything about the humanitarian space and how we were going to fix it and we didn't have a freaking clue um So, you know, not only that but we were also setting out to build a company or a nonprofit company in the shadow of the great recession So I mean talk about bad timing. Um, you know, we're lucky. We made it You know, you know, we had to figure out how to raise money. We had to figure out how to build a business We had to figure out how to comply with regulatory, you know regulatory environment. We you know all of those things I think what we had was this foolish belief that we could change the world and we were You know, probably just smart enough to have a chance of success and stubborn enough that we weren't going to quit Frankly, like if you have those three things you can probably do a lot in this world And we've been able to figure it out along the way I've never seen humanitarian efforts appealed to such a wide array of of adventure Of mission of purpose The way that you had described it in the book and of course in some of the research I had checked out at the ted talk which I I would I would think at this point and the way and the broad appeal at least the way you've presented it That you would have a lot of young men beating the n women beating down your daughter to say how can we get involved? How can we sign up for this? I want this adventure Yeah, I mean we've we've really had no shortage of volunteers over the years You know our biggest constraint has always just been money, you know that we we always say there's a dozen things more important to us than money Unfortunately, they all cost money So, you know and listen we've we've scaled dramatically in 10 years. We've raised 250 million dollars Like we're not it's not like we're a mom and pop shop. We're a major one of the fastest growing nonprofits in the country, but we have You know disasters are increasing in frequency and cost There are 3 million men and women who serve since 9 11 We've only recruited 100 000 of them. We got a long way to go And you know anything stopping us is you know Who's if you got if you got a rich billionaire uncle that you're not telling me about now's the time to break in and say Hey, I've got I can solve your problem for you, but Yeah, I mean there's no shortage of people who are interested in making a difference in the world and when it comes to leadership and organizing and obviously in these situations where there are multiple competing interests Getting involved to have their own mission, although the greater mission is disaster relief You know, what are some of the biggest lessons that you've walked away from on this experience when it comes to Leadership motivating and getting everyone to work together seamlessly. Yeah. I mean, you know It's interesting. I I thought I knew A lot about leadership when I went into the marine corps And then my squad leader got blown up and I was given charge of 13 marines and I realized I didn't know anything about leadership And then I thought I knew a lot about leadership when I was leaving the marine corps and I started a company And I realized I didn't know anything about leadership. And so it's been a constant journey um, you know when I think about What have been the keys to to my success as a leader? I think early I was humble humble enough to admit that I didn't really know what I was doing and You know, I didn't allow my insecurity as a young entrepreneur or a first time entrepreneur getting away of Putting together the right team of talents people who were often more talented than I was and empowering them to You know do their job and and not get in the way of them and that gave me the time and space to learn from them Yeah, and so, you know, I had the humility early. I think to to lead that way and and also I I think I've Been a pretty vulnerable leader, right? I haven't been afraid to walk into a room In front of some complex situations and say guys, I don't know the answer here. Let's figure it out together And I think if you can have that type of authenticity as a leader When when you are confident that you have the right answer No matter how unpopular it is people are going to know that you're for real, right and they're going to follow you And and so that's that's been Yeah, I think that's been really really helpful for me. I'd like to think that I I'm a leader that is always led with integrity. I mean oftentimes. I think a lot of people are able to you know You know Make excuses for why they should put something whether it's market share or profitability or whatever their own skin ahead of integrity I think I've done a pretty good job of that. Um, I would hope my team would agree uh So I I think those are some of the most consequential lessons. I think in 2020 though There was one other one that that I will I I'd call out and that is You know in in moments of crisis Leaders need to be able to Confront the brutal facts of a situation And turn to their team and communicate really clearly about just how bad something might be While still helping them to maintain Faith that they'll see it through And and I think that with cove it. I saw a lot of leaders government and corporations at its institutions Who? Really refused to embrace just how bad cove it was going to be they put their head in the sand either because They just you know Refused to believe it or because they were afraid that it would cause panic among their people or you know for any variety of reasons and Yeah, a lot of reasons And the problem is you know, most people can see right through that they can see through it they know that that you're bullshitting them and As a result they they believe they then Assume that you don't trust them you don't trust them to with that information with the brutal facts but if you can if you can if you can You know if you can Dance, you know dance that dance if you can both confront it But also keep them inspired and confident that you're going to find a way Like that's pretty powerful that builds trust it builds confidence I think being honest in the face of a crisis is Incredibly important understanding the crisis is happening before everyone's eyes And social media has shown us that you can't control the narrative. There are Ample examples of how the narrative is in front of everyone And I think the point you touched on earlier is also incredibly key and that's leading with integrity And I think what we've seen in the lack of leadership is the different set of rules for those in power And the sacrifices they've asked us to make while they may not be following those same sacrifices because they've been able to gain a level of power That lesson in integrity. How how did that come to be for you in that experience? And how do you carry that forward for this next generation of leaders that you are obviously training up in team rubecon? Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I think one of my role models was my father um He was, you know, a guy that I think led You know, he interesting story. I mean, he not college educated I started working in a factory eventually it was promoted into management and you know, eventually ran a factory um and you know, he always believed in doing right by the people that he led the workers in his factory and would go to bat for them and and um, you know, always led with integrity and I think that was evident in his funeral when he passed away suddenly five years ago six years ago and You know people that had worked for him on assembly lines dating back 20 years that came a thousand miles to Go to his funeral, which was, you know, I think Telling for the type of leader that he was But I think for me in the most consequential environment that I was ever in when I was in afghanistan and that sniper team You know, we were a six man team going out every night life and death decisions we had full authority to make them ourselves and You know, you can probably imagine how dangerous this environment was and what those decisions were and you know, my team leader was a guy of unimpeachable integrity and told us early that um The only the only litmus test for success for that deployment was whether or not we went home with our honor intact It wasn't how many bad guys we bagged, you know, it wasn't how many air strikes we called in or any of these other like metrics that a sniper team might might Measure themselves by he said I will never ask you to to compromise your integrity Even if it means that we're jeopardizing our own safety even if it means that You know, we don't make it out of here alive We're never going to do anything that that will compromise our honor integrity and listen there There are plenty of times when it's like, you know, now might now might be the time to compromise our integrity You know, it's it's pretty dicey out here but you know, he he always held that line and You know, never for a moment. Did he did he waver from it? So, you know, if we could do it in that environment we can do it when all we're talking about is his revenue or profit or or market share and in these situations obviously emotions run high and Whether it's entering a foreign country in the theater of war or it's entering a foreign country to help in a disaster situation Are there practices that you have personally to help you mitigate those emotions that may not help you make great decisions in those moments of crises? Shut them down I mean If you know if if if uh, I probably don't deal with the emotional side of things as healthily as as I should If I'm being honest, I wish I could tell you that I was like a zen Buddhist and did a bunch of meditation. I don't I You know, the one one of the things for better or worse, and I explore this in the book You know, you've become pretty adept at in combat is He's shutting down your emotions because your emotions don't keep you alive It it just they have you know, and that's I think that's what you're saying, right? So, you know in these dangerous situations, how do you keep them in check? Well, you know, it's a survival mechanism and actually human beings are really good at it you know, it's in our dna to Uh to to not dwell on some of these things We just kind of have to type tap into a little bit more of a primal element of our nature Unfortunately, I got pretty good at that my wife will tell you so she's still trying to crack my heart and exterior A little too good Yeah, I know From all the psychologists that we've interviewed on this show a lot of them Hearing the advice of just shut it down their first words were would be good luck with that pal and then you know Then the other side of that I think a lot of us I think as human beings Behaviorally, we absorb all that and we may not allow our emotions to get charged up and control us in that moment If we learn to shut that off that doesn't mean that that's not going to play out later on in life and I think a lot of Of combat vets was one of the things that they're dealing with and And and perhaps one might say that that that sort of Those emotions sort of compelled you to go to Haiti on this humanitarian effort one of the things that I was fascinated with Is you talk about how you've you couldn't have built rubicon without the immense amount of talent that you had accumulated through these efforts and AJ and I have been doing this company for 15 years And we've worked with a lot of young men and they come to us Because they want to build leadership skills now Leading a bunch of guys who don't know What's next or they're looking to you to show them the way that's one thing However, when you start collecting talent with their own ideas with their with their own experiences It's that's a completely That's a different realm because there's going to be competition and challenging and your own ego starts to get in the way and comes into play Now obviously you've dealt with team sports and at a college level It's certainly going to mitigate that and give you some skills and do that However for for the other for the other guys or for guys who haven't been able to have that experience What would you suggest to them to help build those skills? well, you know listen, I think that One of the most important things that a leader can do is empower people, you know, I talked about how you know We only were successful because I recognized that I needed a lot of really capable people Excuse me around me in order for the organization to be successful. And so you know, I talk a lot to you know fortune 500 companies and And organizations about leadership development and culture and I always encourage people to to focus on You know building great teams and focus their energy on building great cultures and you know, what is culture culture is That thing that guides decisions in the absence of orders And so, you know, if you bring the right people into your organization If you align them to a vision where everybody's marching, you know to the beat of the same drum everybody Believes that they're pursuing the same thing they're willing to Subjugate themselves to that thing and input their ego aside swallow it Whether that means that they're a leader that suddenly finds themselves following And that's one of those things that we preach all the time is no one to lead no one to follow um, you know, there are moments when Internally, I find myself as CEO You know following behind others in my organization who are more capable in that moment But it really comes down to Empowering people and what happens when you empower people is They find courage, you know, if you if you've built a culture that In which they truly feel cared for That that love that people feel You know, and that's really what leadership is is love that leads to people feeling safe and when people feel safe People are willing to take risks people find courage and that safety and that safety can be physical It could be moral. It could be emotional it could be psychological but if you if you If you create an environment like that Or people have that safety and then you really let go of the reins and empower them to go out and execute They're gonna they're gonna do courageous things And if that culture is guiding their decisions nine times out of ten, they're gonna come up with the right answer And you know in that one time that they that they don't Again, it's that safety that makes them know that, you know, they're gonna be okay, right? Um, and so that's that's what we try to do. That's that those are the types of leaders that we try to build now culture rolls from The socialization rolls top down so they're looking at you to set that culture But I would imagine transitioning it from the battlefield to an humanitarian effort that culture has changed somewhat What were the is there anything you could point to that? That helped or is different from the the building of that culture from the ground up for this new efforts You know, I I don't know that it's changed that much. I mean and and and Listen, I know I I joked, you know somewhat joked about, you know shutting emotions off. I think You know, we are actually uh The culture that we have and the culture that is based off the military culture. It's it's a it's a highly compassionate highly empathetic culture filled with love for one another trust mutual trust mutual respect You know, the military hasn't always gotten that right, you know As much as the the military is a melting pot of american society You know, the military is is still grappling with things like misogyny It was slow to repeal don't ask don't tell and those are you know, those are those are stains on the military's You know history and that's it's unfortunate. They're they're constantly trying to improve I do believe we've got good leaders in there now who are helping to you know, really bend the the military back toward, you know You know that moral arc, right? Um But you know, that's those are the that's the basis upon which we've built ours and you know, we we we talk frequently about things like empathy and compassion and you know, I realize that um, I I sometimes come off as an automaton and and uh Yeah, I talk about, you know, shutting my emotions down But you know, that's that's really when the stakes are high and things are on the line I think in between I I have a You know a pretty deep Capacity for emotion and empathy and compassion and I look for that in the types of people that I bring on board I think obviously with the military training on the hard skills end That was easy to translate over the soft skills of actually asking people for money pitching this new idea Persuading people and influencing them Is that a skill set that you did build in the military and were there steps you took after? To grow that skill set. No not at all. I mean No, you know, I honestly uh, not not not not even in the slightest, you know, the You know, I'm still terrified to ask people for money I'd much rather stare down the the barrel of a gun and you know and and face the enemy on the battlefield Then go into a meeting and you know sit across from somebody and ask them to open up their wallet and give me money um You know and that you know, there's there's there were plenty of gaps and I think again it goes back to um I Didn't um, I didn't put my head in the sand about what I I didn't have I knew what I was missing I knew what I didn't know. I wasn't afraid to acknowledge it um But I was willing to learn and I was willing to surround myself with really really smart people who honestly had no business following me Out of a paper bag let alone trying to start A company in the in the shadow of the great recession So, you know, I was lucky to learn a lot from them and you've been been able to to fill in some of those gaps and I think a big part of Getting people on board is the art of storytelling Numbers data figures, they're great on slides, but they don't often lead to donations and people getting on board with the mission So what have you done to become a better storyteller? And what have you brought to the table in this new mission that you didn't actually get a chance to learn and grow in the military Yeah, actually, I love that you said that we talk about storytelling all the time internally and I think storytelling is one of the most underutilized tools in a leader's toolkit. Um, you know at the end of the day Human beings since we invented the campfire and the spoken word We sit around campfires. We tell stories and you know, whether people like to admit it or not when they close their eyes You know and they go to bed or whatever they they dream about Being a part of a story whether it's whether it's a you know Whether it's a fantasy whether it's real life whether it's a love story an action story Whatever it is they they want to be a part of something that's you know, kind of an escape from where they are And in a company is nothing but a story, right? It's got a beginning a middle and an end. It's got a plot It's got characters. It's got protagonists antagonists And you know your your people that are on your team are the ones that advance that narrative Uh in pursuit of that final chapter. And so if you treat people Like they're consequential to that story they'll act like they're consequential to the story If you treat people like they're just an unnamed character, they show up to work and they act like an unnamed character um So i've always been a believer in storytelling Um, and and i'll use one other example or one of the reason why I think it's important You know, I talk a lot about culture and I talk about how culture guides decisions in the absence of orders Storytelling is a big component of that and the example I use is that you know in the in the military or in the marine corps When you're in the infantry and they're talking about tactics and they say and they're teaching you how to You know respond to an L shaped ambush or a far ambush or whatever They'll they'll go to a chalkboard and they'll draw the X's and O's just like a football coach And that'll take like literally 60 seconds because none of those tactics are actually that complicated And then they'll spend the next 30 minutes telling you stories about You know former marines on past battlefields who experienced a complex ambush or an L shaped ambush and they They tell you the the the with rich detail the stories because they know that when bullets are flying And you are experiencing complex ambush on the battlefield. You're not going to remember the X's and O's What you're going to remember is the story of John Basilone on Guadalcanal and how he responded and And you're going to say to yourself I'm going to be John Basilone and I'm going to live up to the legacy of the marine corps And here's what I'm going to do and and that's enough to overcome that situation And so storytelling has this This powerful way of guiding people into behaviors that they may not otherwise need to know they need to exhibit Something you said there that stuck out to me was giving giving putting that story together and allowing those around you who are involved to to To set them up to be a character a driving character in the story and treat them as one so that they Have the opportunity to become one if you don't give them that opportunity It's it's they're they're not going to feel compelled to and I and I think also When any time that when we have discussed storytelling we bring it up in our classes A lot of people get this idea that the story is going to be about me And I'm going to tell the story about me and I'm going to show you how awesome I am But no the story is about us. It's about our mission It is about how we're going to accomplish that mission and you're going to choose your own Uh carry your own story within that story and allowing people that opportunity. Yeah I agree and I think One of the challenges that you know, obviously many in our audience face as well is slaying that ego and having Had the experiences that you've had up until this point and throwing yourself into this new mission You mentioned there were some gaps and there were some things that you needed to get up to speed on You need to learn and grow What is your strategy for taking on those challenges and learning new skills and how has that shifted Over you now running this amazing organization. Well, I mean You know, I get a steady dose of humility, you know every single day Because you know the the organization is growing really fast, right? There have been no shortage of times or years where I've entered the year thinking man This is probably the last year that I can do this because I don't know if I can hold on anymore I don't know that I can actually continue to scale and meet the needs of the organization and um You know, so what do I do? I start preparing, you know the organization to uh You know to move on without me and then lo and behold that frees me up to learn those things I need to learn and You know done that 10 times and I'm still here, right? My board hasn't fired me. Um And you know, so I think slang the ego is a great way of putting it, you know approaching approaching the job with humility Is a great way of putting it I think that leaders need to have this attitude where they're they're coming in and they're reapplying for their job every single day They show up. That's that's what I tell my team You know, I've I've I tell them that all the time. I I am constantly auditioning for my job Now you can take that actually one of two ways like people can can take that approach that attitude and They try to like puff out their chest and they try to be something that they're not when they're auditioning You know for me, it's about taking an approach where I acknowledge What I need to do to get better to meet the expectations of my staff um And in so far it served me well I absolutely agree I I know as a leader of this team how important it is to Bring that humility in and showcase for the team that I'm learning to and I don't know everything But I'm also willing to bring the self-awareness Into the equation and let the team know what I don't know And I think that's where many leaders go wrong They try to hide that weakness They try to hide that gap in knowledge or an experience and in the process They create an environment where other team members are doing the same thing and those gaps where we don't have communication Where we're not on the same page. We're not clear on the obstacles those create bigger problems and bigger headaches So I love that message of understanding that you know every single year I'm auditioning for the same job nothing is handed to me And I'm going to show up like I'm auditioning so that everyone who's on board is going to bring that same mentality Yeah No, it's it's that vulnerability that I spoke about earlier, right? You know it's being able to you know surround yourself with people that you're willing to be vulnerable in front of to You know walk into a room and shut the door behind you and say guys. I don't know You know or or I need help It's really sometimes it's hard for men to to say those those three Really challenging words. I need help But I think it's some of the most powerful words that a leader can say now You don't strike me as a guy who hears no very often and you'd be surprised you should meet my wife But I'm sure at this point you've experienced plenty of no's and plenty of challenges on the way to growing this team And of course when we have an idea we're excited about we want to be able to convey that and sell that And we hope that everyone else can get behind it But there are going to be people who don't buy into the mission who don't go for our pitch who don't believe in us How do you handle that the the no and the naysayer and the self-doubt that comes along with that? Oh, we got a ton of that early I mean the number of times over the first couple years were people would tell us that we had a cute idea that Couldn't scale or couldn't sustain You know, I think you have to be You have to have You have to you have to hear that feedback with some healthy reality Right, you have to you have to you have to sit there and you have to force yourself to ponder the question Are they right because otherwise you're just putting your head in the sand, right? So if you're getting a consistent signal Like, you know, you should you should probably pay paying attention to it But I think that there's there's a quality and successful entrepreneurs, which is You know f the doubters, you know, we are going to persevere. We are going to overcome and so You know, if you can't hear no And continue marching on you're not going to have what it takes to be an entrepreneur But you have to be able to hear no And ask yourself, why are they saying that while continuing to march? That's the balance you have to strike It's a beautiful analogy and you know, as we look forward to the next 10 years, we know that Disasters are inevitable We've also seen major international coalitions start to pull apart at the seams And there seems now to be a need more than ever For groups like your own to come in and help in these situations where we as nations can agree and as allies can agree What do you see as the vision for the next 10 years for you guys and how are you advancing the mission? Yeah, well, you're right. I mean disasters are are increasing in frequency and cost That's terrifying. We have to come up with new paradigms for how we prepare our communities to Respond in the face of that crisis. So we certainly think we have a role to play in that um You know, we are looking at how we can Improve the resilience of american communities by organizing those those veterans within them You know, we really think of it as a 21st century volunteer fire department On standby in those communities when bad things happen, you know, that being said The vast majority of suffering around the world All right, the vast majority Of suffering in the world is is outside of the united states as much as we have our own problems You know, there is so much suffering in conflict zones around the country and I think We have an opportunity to to meet that head on with The people with such unique backgrounds that we have and so we're really excited to invest more In our overseas work. We think there's a lot of real potential there to alleviate some of that suffering with that obviously as we saw With covet there's beginning to become a pulling apart of the seams around what is truth and what is reality And of course it makes it difficult to rally everyone together to take on these these big disasters that we're facing And as we've seen people's belief in science and in what's the facts on the ground happening in front of us You know, it's presented a whole other set of challenges So how do you guys inform those who are supporting your mission? And how do you keep those facts straight to to keep empowering the task at hand? Yeah, well, that's that's an interesting question You know, we don't consider ourselves the arbiter of truth by any stretch But we certainly as I said earlier we we confront the brutal facts, right? So we We don't mince words when we talk about the situations we're facing. We haven't done it with covet You know early in this pandemic when people kept thinking that oh, you know masks are a myth or you know You know, this thing is like the seasonal flu. It's like Yeah, I don't know if I can swear on your in your show, but like you guys are freaking out of your mind um You know, we we just we were Always just very unemotional Use that word again And sober in our in our assessments of what was happening and I think people appreciate that You know that type of transparency and in sober communication um You know, we don't allow the politics of it to influence what we talk about or how we say it Left or left right or center and and that brings me to The values of rubicon and I know that you are a big proponent of values AJ and my myself we talk about values constantly on on this show and and I feel That somehow we've gotten away from Values in the last few generations, but we're slowly Finding our way back to them. Could you speak to the values of rubicon and Why you're such a a stickler for values? Um, well, you know, I think Um depends on how you define values, right? We we talk about values. We talk about our cultural values Which we think of as the manifestation of more global virtues or principles, right? So You know, what's the difference you might be asking like Virtues to me are things like trust and respect and integrity and um, you know judgment and courage and You know regardless of where you're born people value those for us, you know Those become values when they manifest themselves in your organization So what does trust mean in team rubicon versus what does trust mean? You know at art of charm, right? They might be mean two separate things but you know at the end of the day They're they're trust respect might be different things. You know, I I don't know how many companies I encounter where respect is avoiding hard conversations because they make people uncomfortable but in team rubicon as you can imagine after talking to me I we are fairly blunt and candid communicators and And that to us is respectful, right? um You know those values then they really guide how we act how we behave how we act towards one another How we speak to one another, uh, what we can expect of one another how we hold one another accountable um And you know that you're doing a good job when those values are invoked in people's Conversations and arguments and decisions, you know when people are arguing about a choice or a decision that they're facing And they start invoking those values statements in their arguments as either a four or against That's when you know you're doing well. I mean, I think your comment about You know, we we used to be a country of values and we lost our way and we're getting back there, right? You know, I yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, when when were we more values driven than we are today? um I'm not I'm not sure I might I might uh Object to your premise in my experience in growing up. I mean, I went to Boy Scouts as a as a child My dad was it was in the navy and I've heard There was always values in and how I grew up But AJ and I have worked with a lot of young men for the last 15 years now with the art of charm And this this concept or this this seems like a new concept for a lot of young people And I'm happy to share it with them. I because I find it incredibly important because it's what Unites people it brings people together Hell I could say I could leave the argument that it's also what allowed AJ and I To completely different people Work together and build a company over 15 years, which is not an easy task But it was values which which has united us and kept us aligned. Yeah Well, I'll I'll say, you know one observation, you know, I I grew up probably in a similar household. It sounds like Probably with similar values And I and I don't know If this was a similar experience for you, but I grew up going to church, right? And I think that, um, you know, religion Is not perfect and I think that religion itself has You know values that are incongruent with my own But you know, but it is You know, it was the the the teacher of values for an entire generation of of children You know, and you know, fewer people are going to church my my my wife and I we don't but we've discussed, you know When our kids become that age will we start because It teaches values, um, not perfectly, but it teaches them pretty well And it gives you a good base upon which to be a good human being And I don't know that as we've seen a decline in participation in attendance and church that we've replaced that with a new you know Teacher or vessel for imparting those same values on on this next generation Something you said they're very important. It sticks on my mind and I think it needs to be reiterated, which is Yes, the church isn't perfect. What organization is perfect is the military united states military perfect is is So and with that We're we're now in this this I find we're in this place where people is so easily Able to pick apart things that they don't find that are perfect or they can exploit to show you why something is wrong But you can do that with everything and if you continue to do that with everything You're not going to have anything left to stand on Which is but certainly all these organizations can be made to be better and you should strive To make them better rather than striving To be a destructionist and rip them all apart. Yeah, don't let perfect be the enemy of progress I want to add I think for many of us, especially in my lifetime and johnny's lifetime Military service has has shifted. We revered our grandparents for going to the world wars and those missions Tended to have a general consensus behind them and as we saw what happened in vietnam and as we've seen what's happened in the middle east drag on military Have not been treated well veterans have not had a fair shake Especially of late and and of course I can't even imagine what it's like to go into some of these Foreign places even in disaster relief and and be met as an enemy as part of the u.s. Military How do you guys mitigate the Negativity that the u.s. Military has faced over the last couple of generations for the missions at hand I think there are only small pockets. Well, I mean it depends on the audience that we're talking about I think in america. There are only small pockets of people that Have a negative opinion of the military. I actually think at least in america, right? My question was more towards As we're overseas. Yeah, as we've seen this erosion of american standing based on the way we're perceived in our military interventions Whether it's you know factual or not There there is a lot of pushback on our presence and I wonder how you guys deal with that, especially on a humanitarian mission Where uh destruction is not part of the mission. Yeah, I mean in perception is reality, right? So if that's the international perception, that's that is what we face And and you're right that we do we do face that frequently I think we see that as an area where we can have influence You know that that american troops, uh, they are compassionate. They are people that have A hope to make the world a better place. Um, you know, I have a chapter in my book that's that's kind of dedicated to A situation just like this we team rubicon Ran a refugee camp for syrian and iraqi refugees in greece and teslaniki and I had the opportunity to go and visit the camp And while there sat and had tea chai with uh In iraqi, uh, man and his 20-something year son year old son And uh, they were from mozal Uh, you know where the u.s. Army had invaded when that son was four or five years old He lived under the u.s. Occupation You know his neighborhood in city shelled, you know in the in the war and uh You know it was um A fascinating experience for me It was a deeply moving experience for me to be able to to sit there and you know, it was fascinating as his father who was this um Really gruff iraqi man named hussein um Had served in the iraqi army under saddam And fought in the iran iraq war And we we bonded over the fact that at the end of the day, we were just jundis and uh, that's the Arabic word for lowly soldier and uh And he basically looked at me. He's like, yeah, you're a jundi, you know Like I don't blame you for what happened and he goes you're actually a really good human being You know, this is all in arabic You're a good human being, you know, and you're in your you're now making the world a better place and that's all that matters so Yeah, I mean in some locations in some populations we have an uphill battle, but I think it's actually really important for us to fight it You bring up such a great point that conversation is where it begins And when we draw these lines in the sand, whether it be here in the us or overseas And we label people as the enemy and we don't want to interact with them A lot more pain and suffering Follows and I think it's so important for us to be open to have those conversations and understand that even if On your mission now, you may not be accepted at first. It's important to sit down. It's important to be human First and foremost to those who are trying to support Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean we need more breaking of bread in this country Well, johnny and I deeply thank you for your service and I know we have some military members listening Uh Those of us who may be not in the military who want to get involved in team rubicon You know, what are the opportunities there and how can we support you on this mission? Yeah, well, you know, you don't have to be a veteran to join in volunteers So we'll take anybody from any walk of life. We'll give you everything you need to be successful and safe in the disaster zone And you know about 30 of our volunteers did not serve in the military So it's not like it's an insignificant a number of our of our of our folks You know people can go to our website team group on usa.org You can register you can donate obviously as a as a charity, you know donations matter And I encourage people to follow us on social media. Um, we're easy to find Instagram snapchat, you know, I don't know if we have a tiktok. I'd have to check with our marketing team We probably do but who knows if that thing's even gonna be running in a couple months And then, you know, if people want to learn more about, you know, this journey, um, obviously, you know Just wrote the book and it's coming out. It just came out this week and You know, it really gives the kind of the intimate story of what a young man experiences overseas in combat and what it's like to come home and Really what it was like to build this organization into what it is today Yeah, I was gonna say I think it's such an important read for for those of us who are now experiencing friends and family members Who are coming back from military experience and and not fully understanding what that was like and what that transition is So I I thought even on our end from our experience. It's such a powerful book and thank you so much for joining us Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for coming on or let me come on and share my story I do have one last question. It's what we ask all of our guests and we would like for you to tell us What your x factor is would now we define that as a mindset that unlocks a skill set So what would you say is your x factor? What's my x factor? Um and uh And I can't say stone cold feelings. Is that's not the point of this show? I you can no as you've demonstrated on video It was that one you could use No, well, maybe maybe I'll expand upon that and say that uh when I when I when I need to when I need to be objective and um You know calculating in in looking at a tough situation I can be but I can flip that switch back on and be a caring and compassionate person in the same day Maybe that works. I don't know if that answers your question I'm sure your life is happy to hear that as well turning it back on is just as important Yeah, she went when the other side comes out. She calls it mission jake and she always tells me to put mission jake back It back away It's an excellent reference. Thank you so much jake. Thank you jake. Yeah, thanks for having me