 Hey, friend, you're watching behind the scenes divine intimacy radio. Just a parental warning today. We're gonna be talking about Pornography and masturbation and mortal sin Primarily mortal said primarily mortal sin, but Yeah, I'll do another warning once we get started with the show. I Want to just say something about two? Organizations before we start because we have about two minutes and we'll get going one is Sophia and suppressed if if I mean there are two two places you can go where you can Where you can you never have to worry about the books? They offer or the materials they offer and I mean literally never you can just You know, some people look at like Neil Opstatt, you know in promoter stuff and and right unfortunately in our time those don't mean as much as they should because There's we have a laxity and in terms of universal level How would you say diligence regarding publications and their and their adherence to Catholic doctrine So you don't you know when I years and years ago, you would see theologians publicly corrected I just I haven't heard anything in any anytime recently and there's there's absolute heresy out there under the name of Catholic Writers we talked about one here on the that has Neil Opstatt's and well that we're not the one I'm talking about But the universal Christ by Richard or you know So but if you want to know so what protects you I in my opinion, the only thing you can really rely on right now Are one if you know the theologian of a particular diocese who's who's reviewing texts Then you can trust those theologians in those dioceses But if you don't have any idea who they are if you can trust them or not Institutions that are faithful are those things that you can trust EWTN Is they they have a theologians on staff full-time multiple Who review every every bit of material they put on their shows and that they carry in their bookstore and you can just trust And I know them all they're awesome human beings and really good and love the Lord and They just won't publish anything or sell anything there. That's problematic The other one is Sophia Institute Press. I mean I I am just so impressed with Sophia And and there are other good publishers out there. There's no doubt about that. I and I that I that I have high respect for Um Ignatius press tan tan is the one. Yeah, but Sophia. I work with the most, you know, I They're just extraordinary and the president of Sophia Like the heads of some of these other wonderful organization is Uh Just die hard for the faith. I mean he He he will even publish things Like I've asked him to publish Things that he knows he won't make money on and he said if it's good for the church You just tell me And I'll publish it and I don't pull that trigger too often But that's how dedicated he is to the church. So then he what he's doing then is he's gonna have to make that up someplace else So that's how we got the diary st. Jim and published. That's exactly right. It's exactly right and a book coming out on communities Um by father nielson of the community to be attitudes So, um, please support these good institutions dwtn sophia institute press You can find all the books. I recommend that sophias, you know, sells out on spiritualdirection.com On the shop button there. All of my books are there. So anyway With that, why don't we jump into the show? You ready? Yep. And your market set go This is dan and jordan burk. Welcome to divine intimacy radio your radio haven of rest your hermitage of the heart Wow, you've got it right that I was thinking about it this time Your monastery of the mine where you lift your hearts and minds to heaven Where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw on the wisdom of the saints To help us to navigate the tumult of this life A lot of people don't realize where the doctrine of the church comes from And what they they they don't realize that, you know, when I talk about wisdom of the saint team most of the time on this show We talk about spiritual theology spirit, you know, you know spirituality and marriage You know all of this stuff But moral theology is is really important And we get our theology primarily from the doctors of the church, right? And uh, so the doctors and councils and you know hopes but You know, when the church is wants to it elevates these specific writers for a purpose Doctors are all saints And they all have written something that the church determines Is good for all ages, you know, some people like to suppress in our age thomas equinas and Alfonso's agree But that's going against the magisterial designation of the value of their teaching for all ages But anyway today, uh, just a little bit of a warning today We're going to be talking about moral theology, but we're going to be talking about uh, masturbation and um Mortal sin mostly about mortal sin in relationship to that. Yeah, as an as an easy example Yeah, so parental advisory, right, right? The other thing is going to happen today that i'm not i don't like in this show And that is i don't like calling out people by name I just don't I you know, I appreciate the same about Michael Warsaw and EWTN has kind of a A good sense of that as well. However, sometimes when people are big audiences and they They uh say things publicly They have to be addressed publicly right to counteract the public problem that the situation You know causes. Yeah in in fighting is probably one of the biggest sins of The lady especially right in the church, especially in this time especially in this time and it's it's I know for a fact that's something that we avoid purposefully. Yeah, but as you said when there's something When someone has an audience a large enough audience and they say something that Merits the response because what they said is danger to their audience and it has to be addressed So in this case, we're talking about a recent video put out by father kasey koh and I will say if you watch the video I'd say the first half is just rocks out. Yeah, I mean there's nothing wrong with anything he says But then he moves into what I call what I would call a very common and egregious error of our time And that is a treating sin as if It the only thing that matters Is our culpability, right? And and there's not you'll hear nothing in the video About the objective evil the impact on god Yeah, well to give him credit He he does quote the church and the catechism the church teaches on you know He says well, this is an intrinsic evil. So I don't want someone listening thinking well, he said it's an intrinsic evil He's talking about it's like no, that's not what we're talking about. What we're saying is You can state what the church teaches, but what is the reality of that statement? That's what he doesn't get into right not well. Anyway, right, right and I think and in the the con box of his Video is is filled with confusion, right? Well, and I I can't tell you how many messages that I received from people after the fact who saw my response And who just were saying thank you so much, you know, I watched the video. I was so deeply confused This is something that I've struggled with I had one guy who just poured his heart out And he said I I watched his video and I was enraged is what this is what this one person said Because I know that what I'm struggling with I am struggling with it But I know that it's wrong and when I watched his video I came away with no It's not that big of a deal and you shouldn't worry about it. Yeah, and who knows what his intent is We can't judge. Of course, of course, but that's the response that's that's what people are coming away That's the fruit of what he's yeah, so let's get to you and why you're on the show I mean you've been on the show before to represent do the harder thing to talk about You're you're you're an unauthorized representative if you will of Sophia and stupress for Gabriel Amor's book Hope's Exorcist or the book on Gabriel Amor So why are people reaching out to you? Well, so I when I started do the harder thing It was aimed primarily towards combating Or helping people combat pornography and masturbation so it was both Showing the reality of what pornography is because my one of my methods was the truth of what you're actually seeing Is so disturbing that it needs to be impactful. We people need to know that You know much of what they're watching, you know, there's all these statistics statistics are out there Much of what they're watching is not consensual. So we're talking about rape. Yeah talking about sex trafficking We're talking about slavery sex slavery. Exactly. Yeah So that reality but then also taking I've had discussions and communications and I mean I even went to a clinic and talked to some of the greatest Therapists on this topic in the in the nation in the in the nation and had all these communications and basically took their non Religious Understanding and it's all good and true. Yeah And combined it with what the church teaches because when you combine those two that's when people start breaking free Yeah, so taking that kind of information putting it out there and and so since then I've I've counseled I don't know probably I don't keep track probably thousands of guys I don't do that. I will still help people and I even said in my response video, you know If you need help Here's how you get in contact with me. I will help you I will reply to every message that I can But uh, I don't do that. I don't do that anymore as my main. That's not my main mission anymore But it's still a cursory mission And I still stay pretty much up to date on that but there's other organization generally I refer people to integrity restore jim oda. Yeah, who they're they're full time. That's all they do I don't know if he's in integrity. Oh, he's not, but father show Sean. He'll call. He's another incredible Yeah, he's fantastic. He teaches for us at the institute. So Uh, now you came up with an act an immediate action plan. Is that the name? Yeah, it's it's immediate action plan It's five steps and I even have it set up on the website where you don't have to enter any information Which website do the harder thing.com. Yeah, you don't need to enter any information Just download it. You know if you're struggling just download and follow the steps And it's not gonna it's not guaranteed to just you know, you're done because this is you know This is a whole longer discussion, but we're talking about habits and ingrained actions and things like that But it's a good Stepping point to Overcoming at least you're now taking steps. Yeah to to overcome. All right. So that's so anyway Let's get to the problems in the vision. So the first half was was fine as we said It was just repeating church teaching A father Casey's video father Casey Cole's video and then this but the second was Then he started to I don't know disassemble A healthy concern I think Um, I don't know Take a shot at You know, what's what bothered you the most when you first watched it? It really Or troubled you the most it really muddied the waters on a on a very clear topic And I think the argument that some people would say well, it's not that clear because You know, there's aspects and layers of culpability and things of that nature and my response would be How about you just worry about not sending? Right, right. I mean It's it's we're talking about something that's so egregious Right and so harmful not just to yourself to your loved ones But to god. Yeah, and and I I still get messages Daily if not every other day someone's saying, you know, my husband is addicted to pornography. It's destroying our marriage This is what's going on blah blah blah. It is it is so It is the real pandemic. Yeah in terms of what's going on in the world right now It's worse than it's ever been. Yeah and so for me watching somebody muddy the waters and and I understand the desire to teach people moral theology if you enjoy moral theology, that's fine But taking something like this that is as serious as this topic is pornography masturbation In mudding the waters is it is scandalous in my opinion. I agree. Um, because it's a very clear cut You need to just stop right Right and if you're spending effort trying to figure out. Well, am I culpable or am I not culpable? That's effort that you could be spending on pursuing virtue and that's what wasn't discussed in the video Basically was like just do your best Go and to give him credit. He said go to confession whether or not you think it's mortal or not So good. No that and that is great advice. Right one of the it it you know There's some really simple advice out of the show Stop sending and some people are going to say Even through tears. I mean, I remember my one of my I my family's full of Addictions and sure do I agree have and all that and remember one of my brothers just Weeping telling me about how he couldn't find a A narcotics anonymous sponsor that would stick with him right And he was begging for help and so some of these people are like that they're like You know, they're listening to us going Yeah, but I am screwed up right right to the core and so we're not discounting So when we say stop sinning it is not within sensitivity. It's it's to combat You shouldn't spend in my opinion right anytime Worrying about culpability, right go to confession, right, right because confession isn't just About the forgiveness of sins and I think a lot of times with this sin in particular And I don't know from first for a personal experience. Thank god. I have other problems, but not this one But I know from talking with priests and psychologists and and and seminary formate formators And we do seminary formation is that guys will often you guys women and men will often use The confessional as an almost like inebriation So that's one of the other things that I wanted to touch on because If we're going to talk about moral theology in this context Why are we not also talking about firm purpose of amendment, right? So if we're going to just what is that firm purpose of amendment I mean st. John paul II actually wrote a letter to the bishops That was so impactful for me when I read it talking about firm purpose And he basically said if you don't have a firm purpose of amendment your confession isn't valid, right Now I don't want to send people into a tailspin But what that means is if you're just going to confession To like oh, I did it wrong. I did bad again. I need to go get me relief. Give me relief I want to be forgiven, but you're not taking any steps To make sure it doesn't happen again. Right. That's that's the issue So you need to have what's called a firm purpose of amendment, which is okay You're analyzing you're saying this is where you spend time analyzing not culpability. You say, okay crap All right. I was really angry today. Okay. Uh, I was scrolling through instagram and I got triggered. Okay When I'm angry, I can't scroll through instagram. What am I going to do? That is taking steps towards for firm purpose of amendment I know guys and and for for folks We're going to say guys because that's who I I dealt with and I always get a message that says women struggle with the two I know I'm just using this language because this is what I work in Yeah, trust me my heart breaks for women just as much as it does for men. So just want to clear that up, but Um, you know, I know guys who've locked their phones in their cars. Yeah, because they know at night time I'm more susceptible to falling. That's heroic. Exactly. That's the firm purpose of amendment But that's not what was talked about. It was just just do your best. Yeah, and You know, all right, we get back from the break. We'll continue talking about this very difficult subject If you're coming in in the middle of parental advisory, right? It's tough stuff Uh, so not for younger uh younger kids or early teens But we'll continue to dive into how to understand and get you know overcome habitual mortal sin And how to better think about it than what was shown in this video. We'll be right back And you mark, uh, you know, so at the break, um I'll say it on the show. I just want but if if there's anybody out there going, please help me So you have that free Well, you know what? Let's let's just go back in the show and say this again And we'll we'll give him another resource on your mark. Get set go This Dan and Jordan Burke. Welcome back to divine intimacy radio We're talking about um mortal sin masturbation habitual sin difficult subject parental advisory um So I just want to remind folks about a good Places for resources. One is do the harder thing got calm free Yeah, we don't even you don't even capture information about people or in order to email them or sell them anything or whatever Just free free. No nothing but trying to help people right and there they'll find the Immediate action plan immediately that will if you're just and even if you've been struggling for a while There might be something in there that will help you. Yeah My shedding blood talk you can find online Uh, which we're actually going to be redoing and we're going to package in a way that We'll we'll let everybody know so they can find it because that's a more It's way more in depth going into those five steps. You'll find good info in there Um integrity restored is another amazing one father. Sean Kilcolly his resources for women. I believe rachel Kilcolly Yeah, uh, also has resources. Um integrity restored has resources for women as well So anyway, what the one thing we don't want to do is what happened, which was Lady people hanging. Yeah. Yeah the other place you can go for free resource Which has it's a more, um, I would say community Engagement that sort of thing if you're feeling isolated is apostoli va.org And that's the community that I founded to help people live the contemplative life In there it does require It's free, but it requires you to Get some orientation about how to act in community because we're kind of d social media attitude the place It's a safe peaceful place break the curse of facebook break the curse facebook apostoli va.org and in that, uh, we have I have an in-depth course on Overcoming habitual sins. We don't know what jordan's talking about or you want more Then what you find in the immediate action plan that you can go get right now just easy as can be at do the heart of thing dot com dot com If you need more and formal teaching and teaching on discernment of spirits, which will help you break sin and all of that The apostoli va.org free courses there as well. So So back to where we were John Paul II said, you know, if you don't have a firm purpose of amendment So one when we go to when people go to confession If they so confession isn't just about forgiveness, right? Which is a shallow understand. It's really important. Okay, but But just to go get it off your back. It's not that's not even right thinking at all but But I want to be forgiven. Good. Yes, you'll be forgiven. It's one of the most powerful things I ever heard in my life It was the first time I heard a priest say, you know, I absolve you. Wow. Just sent shivers down my spine but Confession is also there to give you strength against sin But it has to be a valid confession as you noted You've got to have a firm purpose of amendment. You have to have a contrition You have to have a contrition I mean you have to be sorry that you did it and I want to know how many people even know about presumption What do you mean? Well, because that's another aspect again, if we're going to spend time and quote-unquote moral theology Around this topic. Yeah, in my opinion, you should be you should be equipping people with what matters the most Right, not, you know ambiguity about culpability, but rather saying hey, here's what you should be aware of Are you presuming it? Forgiveness. Uh-huh. Are you are you going to Look at pornography and think my I can just go to confession in the morning. That's presumption. That's another mortal sin Right, you know, so mortal sin on top of mortal sin, right? So if you're doing that if you have presumption Going in to confession That also it could invalidate what's going on because you're not truly Uh, you don't have a truly contrite heart. You're just going to to ease your own emotions Right because you're like, yeah, I'm just gonna get forgiven. That's presumption. Yeah So that's on the front end and then we already talked about for a purpose of amendment on the back end Right. So those would have been more appropriate topics. I think are more helpful to people in regard to this overall conversation But you know anyway, and they you did a good video on this which is what prompted me to want to do this show with you What's the title of the video is in is is it on spiritualdirection.com yet? Um, I don't know if it's on our website. It's on our youtube. You talking about the response video. Yeah Yeah, it's it's um, is masturbation and pornography immortal sin Uh response to father kasey coal. I think is the full. Yeah, it's on our youtube spiritualdirection.com youtube page subscribe Share it and that video You know, this can be shared easily. It'll be up on the in that same area and then also on you on spiritualdirection.com Okay, eventually But uh your video I think will speak to I mean that was very compelling. Yeah So The other thing that he said which was good Father coal just to keep giving credit where it's due Even though I don't agree with him on a lot of things almost everything The uh, he he said, you know, go to go to confession Now a lot of people are taught you shouldn't go to confession Uh with with if you have venial sin I mean some churches I'm aware even my own parish Before a current pastor got there. It was they were told you don't have to go to confession which Wow, I fear for the that guy's experience in hell or judge final judgment or whatever Who knows right what's gonna happen. But that is when he carries down the same path because yeah, that's pretty egregious That's incredibly egregious. So then so then, you know, in in in a better scenario You're received well when you take a mortal sin Unfortunately, many people are turned away when they take their venial sins But the church has always encouraged even up to recent times post-conciliar After the second Vatican council informal Exertations has said That it's good to take your venial sins to confession and here's the thing if you do that if you if you go, okay You know, here's the This is gonna sound a little bit harsh To hell with distinctions again of mortal and venial, right? Go to confession if you have habitual sin, right? And don't and then you don't have to worry about if it's mortal or venial, right? And you don't have to you don't have to self delude You know the human I always like to say the human person has an infinite capacity for self delusion You know and very little innate capacity for for honest self Reflection well, I think I even said in the video either the first or second part of it. I don't I don't recall but In my experience having talked to Thousands of men on this topic. Yeah from every walk of life all ages every type of background There are two people who are searching is masturbation immortal sin. Yeah is pornography immortal sin There's only two types of people who are doing that one who is trying to look for some sort of information to pacify Their bad feelings. Yeah, so like they want to justify what they're doing, right or they're scrupulous. Yeah So Neither of those are good, right Don't beat either of those beasts, right? And there's literally never been an in-between never been an in-between. It's one of those two extremes, right? So I you know, I have to I I'm not just this wasn't just like well I'm not a fan of Casey Cole. So and I pray for him daily for the record. Yeah Um But you know, I'm just gonna do a response because I don't like what he's saying I was like, no, no, no, this is damaging is this is damaging and I know who is searching this Now let's take a shift to another dimension that is almost never talked about any subject And that is the the dimension of evil objective evil of Related to the act right Without regard to culpability and one of our staff member we were standing around talking about this and the abalone institute offices said Something like what does it matter? Whether you press one thorn into his head or two, right? And I it just about knocked me over right and I thought that is so powerful, right? So, yeah, what does it matter mortal or venial in this case if it's habitual You're you know, and here's the thing I mean John the beloved who wrote his epistles in the New Testament, of course the gospel of john Used some very harsh language for those who are in habitual sin He said When you are in habitual sin, and I'm paraphrasing You are of the devil. Yeah and talk about this a lot When you look into the greek that means subject to beneath Controlled by yielding to making him your god, right, you know from You know and and there's no way that that comes out in any kind of translation that Is is uh should do anything but just shake you to your stinking boots, right? So be of god By not parsing not trying to justify and turn it off folks who do right like to me anyone who sits around and and I think you know Part of the reason I think is done this is a false mercy, right? Because I you know, I suspect father casey cares about people really truly does And oftentimes when that happens you look out on the audience and you and when tough teaching is given People come and they're rattled And and then therefore we can't do that. It's like no no no no They came right they're rattled So help them that's a path because when we teach publicly we should teach strongly We should use doctrinal language and clarity not relational language, right? And then privately we counsel with huge amount of mercy and gentleness, right? But publicly we need to proclaim the truth with clarity or these kind of things happen You talked to so many people today and what's their biggest complaint about what's going on in the church Is ambiguity right left and right ambiguity and from people who Should know better right and we are assuming the best that they're just trying to be relational Yeah, but that causes that ambiguity. Yeah, and it's and it's so Dutch I mean again, you look at the fruits of what's happening and in this case you read his comment section and it's stunning You know, I hope he reads it in in cash backtrack. Yeah, I've seen him backtrack before Yeah, his some of his responses were pretty Pretty poor unfortunately. Yeah, that's why like I said pray for him daily. So that's why we're doing this That's why we're doing this show Look, you know, the lord wants you free. He gave his he died for you He want, you know, he knew and by the way just so you understand his love He created you at the beginning of time knowing Um at the beginning of your time knowing what you would do Knowing that you would that you your sins would result in across all time in eternity The stripes the the flesh ripped off of his back The spit in his face The the humiliation the stripping of his garments Did you know he knew that you would do that and he loved you anyway and he brought you into existence He wants an eternal relationship with you this there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus to get in Right get, you know, put off the old man as st. Paul said put on the new Fight like heaven to get the hell out of you And you listen to divine intimacy radio or you're here in this show maybe for the first time We have endless resources for you brothers and sisters for free for free our our only mission Is to help people be free right and get to heaven I mean, it's it's not that complicated and I can tell you I by the grace of god I was able to get free I know so many others who have the same results and it's it's possible So if you're listening and you're struggling, it's possible do the harder thing dot com spiritual direction dot com apostoleva.org It's all there for you all free To help you to get free to know the freedom that jesus paid for you and with that we're having to Conclude this show. I hope it's been helpful to you or somebody that you love until next time May they got a peace make you perfect in holiness May he preserve you whole and entire spirit soul and body you're approachable at the coming of our lord Jesus christ amen