 And she's been working for Brocade now for several years as the sustainability program manager. And her responsibility is in the environmental health and safety programs. She's been involved in the San Jose campus and lead energy star and green business certification process. Prior to Brocade, she was the environmental health and safety director at outside logic for more than 20 years. She's a registered California assessor and has master's degree in public health from UCLA and undergraduate degree from UC. Linda, please. Thank you. Well, I flipped to the chase and to answer the question, for us it was yes. So, Brocade recently built a campus in San Jose. We combined five buildings into a three building campus. Construction was started in 2008 and we occupied it in 2010. And we purposely went for lead gold for commercial interiors. This was a previously designed project. The core shell was already established at a lead silver weight to go with the project. We also went for the Bay Area Green Business Certification and got our energy star eligible. So, we've got through the process. We just need a PE to certify it before we get our actual certification. So, our San Jose campus was really designed for energy efficiency and sustainability. Again, we consolidated five sites into three or a half million square foot campus. We put in a lot of state of the art data center in Rowe Cooley and caught out of containment. Water-sized condraiser, which gives us 2,000 tons of free energy and we put in a 500 KV TV system on our rooftop. We do have daylight access. Our campus exceeds the California energy code by 24%. We actually got a KG&E rebate of $2.6 million focused on energy, besides energy, water reduction, community alternatives, some of the onsite features which also helped with our lead certification. And we also did a lot of innovation projects and so you can get extra points by doing that in the way that we move people from our campus using reusable packing material, donation of a lot of our excess supplies, the way we actually designed our ergonomic program and education and assessments also got us a little more. And also, educating our employees and the public about lead. We had a scavenger hunt on our site with lead plaques placed throughout the building and reduced YouTube video about our construction project. So after we did our process we kind of wondered what about the rest of our real estate portfolio worldwide. Rokate has gathered a lot of sites through acquisitions through the year. So we currently have about 88 field offices. We kind of did a survey this year to figure out how many of our campuses or offices are actually lead star or lead energy star or the local equivalent for various kinds of roles. So we took the affirmative responses and based on the number of sites we found out that about 28% of the number of sites actually had some sort of certification. But if you compare that to the square footage, it actually was fairly high. So a lot of our larger sites were actually lead or energy star certified. What really surprised us was a lot of our, hardly any of our European sites were actually any kind of accredited certifications. We weren't sure why that was, but it just so happened that very few of them were. So going forward we're looking at what we are going to do with green leasing. Is it going to be something that we proactively do for our larger sites that are coming up for expirations? Also the sites with long term leases looking at them and deciding whether or not we want to proactively try to get those work with either the property owners or to get various types of certifications. So that's kind of where we are right now as a snapshot. For us it definitely was something that we actively pursued from the start. We feel that the payback on our energy, things that we did as far as design, we had a less than a two year payback. We did have to pay additional money to get certification, to have an architect work with us through the process. So there was cost, but again for us the payback was there. And especially when we look at the campus and serve our employees having a green campus and these types of certifications were really something that they felt was advantageous. And so at least from our standpoint we're glad that we did that. Thank you. And we'll have a question and answer session at the end, so please hold your questions. The next gentleman, Mukesh Kedert, is a gentleman I've known for quite some time. He's an energy manager at Oracle. He's been driving energy efficiency initiatives and cost reduction initiatives at Oracle for existing and new buildings. The energy intensities have declined significantly since he started there. And some of these have earned him recognition from ASHRAE and from Space Technology Hall of Fame. So please welcome Mukesh Kedert. Thank you very much. It's a big challenge question. Do you want to go through the formal certification or not go through the formal certification? There are both advantages to it and both limitations to it. I'm going to give you my perspective in terms of what I think what it is. So since this is a panel discussion, I just want to give you some introductory remarks and then we can take it up based on the kind of questions you have and discuss more about it. Just want to give you a little bit perspective of what Oracle is. And I'm not sure if anybody has not heard about Oracle so far. How many have not heard it? It's in the news for very different reasons. We are a hardware and software integrated platform which is an engineer to work together. It's a growing company. It's going from both internal organic growth as well as by acquisitions. Our annual revenues have gone about 37 billion dollars as of the last fiscal year. The number of employees also keep on increasing and we are 111,000 employees at this point. I think we are practically in every country. There are very few countries that we are not there. At least our sales office will be there. And our real estate facilities, which is part of I am belong to the global real estate. We have about 20 million square foot of space that we are currently occupying and operating. We have some extra space which we have put on the leasing market. We are trying to lease it back because we have a long term leases on them. But this is the one that we are trying to manage our energy and performance there. And about half of that space is owned. So we have a lot of spaces which are leased to us and we call triple net lease or we go with a full service lease. There are different level of leases that I never understood before I joined the company. But the idea is in a triple net lease you are responsible for everything including maintenance and operation. And in a full service lease all you do is show up at the door. They will give you a place for you to work in and then you get away after the work is done. You don't bother about changing the light bulb between fuses or do anything else there. Usually it builds. One quarter of one percent of the total revenue. Is it big? Absolutely yes. It's 90 million dollars plus and that's what we work. That's where the area we are trying to focus on. And we have made a lot of strides in that in trying to reduce it. Some of them have proven good results. But if you look at overall perspective it's less than one quarter of one percent. So remember if my CFO has to pay attention to it which area is he going to focus on? So you have to take back any project you have with a lot of convincing arguments to even draw their attention towards these operations. Fortunately we are very lucky there. They have a very good management that listens to us and we have been able to do a lot of good things. For example, US EPA started something called a climate leaders program back in 2003 and we were the first IT company to join. And prior to that, believe me, our management thought is no point of joining in any of these programs because all these programs required a lot of overhead, a lot of time in trying to do the paperwork, collect data or report it. That was not necessarily productive. The reason you are able to join is because we were collecting that data anyway for looking at the opportunities where we could save energy. And therefore we had the data and therefore joining it was not a very lot of extra work. Remember you do not want to spend anything extra than you need to. If it is extra work required, it's non-productive, you're not going to do that. The industry doesn't want to do that. Unless there are some other benefits from a marketing point of view. We also participate in things like the green power program. Everybody wants to buy green power. We are buying the green power for quite some time, 2003 time frame. People have heard about the climate savers computer initiative. It's something that you sign up that you will put your computers into sleep mode when they are not in operation. It's a pledge more or less. It's a requirement. But what happened is before we signed the pledge, I ran it through all of our different departments including the IT. They signed on to that. So you can go back after some time and say, have you been implemented it? Where do you stand in terms of implementation? So it gave us a platform for pushing non-real estate people to start doing the work they should be doing. We are SVLG partnership and also wanted to say something on OBMC. How many have heard this name OBMC? Only two people. It's the most oxymoron name I have come across. OBMC stands for optional binding mandatory curtailment. It's optional to join. It's binding when it happens. It's mandatory if you don't do it and there are consequences and you have to reduce your demand whenever there is a power shortage. We are participating in that one and some of the CC programs. We are also doing energy start and I'll tell you some of the things there and also we have a couple of buildings that are qualified for lead program that they were required from the business point of view. So what I wanted to share with you was things that we have done. Very brief, the final result. We can talk about individual items lately, but this is our network source campus. If you go drive on highway 101, you will see it, 2 million square foot. 2000 when the energy crisis began. We started looking into it, what can we do to improve the performance driven primarily to avoid rolling blackouts. That's where the OBMC part come up. And we got into our culture, into policies and we have been driving the energy consumption down and down and I have generally called a rule of one-third. You can walk into any building, you would see there's opportunity to cut down the cost by one-third. And I have implemented it not on my buildings that have a very high energy use, but also buildings that were on the energy star highest level and we still been able to go and cut down the energy consumption. There are opportunities there. It's harder to get by, but you do get by. 2010, I didn't get a chance to update at number 211, but they are about one-and-a-half percent more down. So you are basically reaching out 33 percent. But for the remaining, 33 percent is still possible. So you always look for 33 percent down the road. This is what we did with our natural gas. Continuing to do that. And there would be further improvements. And I think we can talk about the specific things as we go along. So I just wanted to give you an overall snapshot. Thank you. Our next speaker is Ralph Renne. And I've known Ralph and Mikesh actually for several years, and both of them are great speakers. Ralph is the Site Coordinating Operations Manager for NetApp. And he's responsible for construction operations and maintenance of property at NetApp in its Sunnyvale headquarters. He's got more than 25 years of experience managing facilities in construction and operations, includes new campus development and high-energy physics labs, data centers, and major energy efficiency measures. Previously, he served as the Director of Operations for XR Corporation at the Slack. So please welcome Ralph. Thank you. Well, thank you very much for attending the session. And I'm kind of pleased to see we drew a little more audience. I thought there'd be like two people out here and just get together and have a conversation. I was on the planning committee along with Mikesh and Alan. And we're really starting the conversation off with certifications formally in sort of the ISO format. Perhaps many of you know that ISO 5001 is out there, which is really an energy management specification. And then the conversation sort of evolved into, okay, who's going to pursue it and why would they pursue it and who's pursued other certifications and why did they do so? So the idea here was sort of the contrast of, well, you could have great programs like Mikesh just demonstrated, yet their management team chose not to pursue a certification. On the other hand, as I'll cover in my slide deck, NetApp has done a few certifications, specifically in our ISO 14001 program, which is really an environmental specification. We did include energy management as a target objective and amongst waystream reduction and some other goals within the program. But really one of the major components within ISO 14001 is our energy management. We've got target reduction goals that are relatively aggressive but achievable. We're trying to reduce by about 5% year-over-year on a 12-month moving average. And we do have to report to that because it's basically audited on a biannual basis. And then we've done perhaps about three years ago, included our data centers and just cited the PUE metric and did a 10% reduction on PUE year-over-year, which is a lot harder to achieve. In addition to that, we do register for the certified green business within Santa Clara County. We pursued Energy Star for Buildings and that was perhaps an initiative we started about two and a half years ago. We did the Energy Star for Data Centers and when the EPA was developing that program, NetApp was quite active in development of the criteria for Energy Star for Data Centers. We pursued lead new construction. We were engaged in lead existing buildings and we actually have a facility that's several facilities in our field offices that are part of the commercial interiors. We were the actual first data center to get certified under the Energy Star for Data Centers. This is a facility that we purpose-built in Research Triangle BART, Raleigh Derm, North Carolina. But it's a rather efficient data center. I'm sure you're here in numbers, at least those in the data center world that is better than a PUE of 1.19. But at the time when the EPA said the average data center is about a PUE of 2.0, this is certainly a very efficient data center ranked 99 out of a possible 100 points. Large facility, a 25 megawatt IT load constructed in 2009 and basically achieved the high rating due to the fact that it uses extensive amount of outside air for free cooling. In addition to that, we are pursuing Energy Star, so this is an aerial or Google shot of our campus out in Research Triangle BART. The three buildings that do have Energy Star is due to the fact that the fourth building we just completed the interiors on and really haven't been operating that building. That building will get certified once we move into it, which actually is in process right now. So hopefully from a year from now, all the properties out there will be certified. In addition, in our Sunnyvale campus, we've certified all of the buildings that are basically in our newer portfolio. We do have some older buildings that we essentially purchase to redevelop. These are sort of circa 1980 buildings. And the question was why should we pursue a building that doesn't warrant investment due to the short lifespan that we project since it's slated for redevelopment? But most of this portfolio, fortunately for us, is vintage 2000 or about 2000 construction and newer. And so achieving Energy Star wasn't as big a challenge as one might think. LEED, so we're going for goal. One of the things in the city of Sunnyvale, in particular in this development, our buildings to LEED silver standards did not require certification. But essentially, the building was constructed. We didn't have to actually validate that we met LEED silver, but the development agreement essentially required us to build the LEED silver. And we did put the USGBC criteria and essentially did achieve all the points required. We just simply chose not to certified at that time. However, we're in the process of certifying this to a LEED existing building operation maintenance under goal. And essentially, we did gut feedback from USGBC. We've met silver. We just missed gold by about two, three credits. However, we did just submit the appeal and it looks highly probable that we'll be able to achieve LEED gold. We'll find out in about two weeks. This building is an existing building that we did certify under USGBC and achieve LEED silver. The two years has essentially expired since we got that certification. So we're going to re-register it for EBOM, the existing building. And we're basically going to pursue LEED gold in this particular facility. From an energy point of view, this is one of our best performing buildings. I guess I did a kilowatt hour per square foot number, but this is less than 10 kilowatt hours per square foot. It's one of the best performing buildings in our whole portfolio. So from an energy point of view, we certainly can need it. LEED is certainly much broader and quite honestly is more of an environmental energy. But I think energy does weigh out a lot. And then we also have a building that's just wrapping up construction that we've certified to LEED gold. We haven't gotten our feedback from USGBC, but we feel very confident that we'll get LEED gold on this. So the discussion with LEED really kind of sets up why you would pursue Energy Star. Energy Star is essentially a prerequisite for the indoor energy and air quality credit. And so you have to have a rating of at least 69 or better. Energy Star, to get Energy Star, you've got to be at 75. So conceivably, you can rank at 70, 71 and meet that prerequisite. But there's sort of this nuance within USGBC that basically says we want to see your Energy Star certificate. So even though the points are less than 75, you can't submit that certificate unless you get Energy Star. So we did do Energy Star really in anticipation of trying to get LEED for all of our existing buildings and essentially meeting that prerequisite. And there's one other reason that would motivate why we would spend the resources. So LEED does require resources. We've hired end consultants. We've engaged a large group of the workplace resources team to get all the documentation necessary. This is probably a year and a half in the works and many, many, many hours of resources were devoted to meeting all the documentation criteria. So on the one hand you have a resource that can be considered non-productive. The other motivation, however, within Sunnyvale they've adopted this green building ordinance and the green building ordinance essentially allows you to get a bonus of floor area ratio. So we've redone our master plan and we looked at opportunities to actually increase the density of the buildings, but the requirement to take advantage of the green building ordinance is to build and have a portfolio of buildings that are LEED goal. So we've essentially adopted a policy that says all our new construction is going to be LEED goal, but in a site where you've got existing buildings, the city of Sunnyvale then took a square foot sort of average in order to say you've got to conform your existing buildings to LEED goal to take advantage of the LEED goal that the bonus bar associated with the new buildings. So there was a certain amount of resources expended and a lot of time and effort for LEED goal, but it did allow us an opportunity to maximize the land value and build LEED goal and put more building square footage on our acreage. So there is a direct benefit in terms of why we would pursue this. So that was sort of a motivation. It doesn't sound like it's just all driven by corporate citizenship, but rather really specifically it allowed us to develop a master plan but more headcount in a facility that we would otherwise have had to acquire new property or build somewhere else. So I'll conclude with that. Our next speaker is going to be Jolene Tam and she is the Environmental Health and Safety Specialist at Juniper Networks. She leads the company's ISO 14001 initiative, which provides the framework for energy and carbon footprint reductions. Her responsibilities include implementation of tools and procedures to standardize the collections of global data for project evaluation selection, strategic planning, and company reporting. Prior to Juniper Networks, Jolene implemented certified ISO 14001, OHSAS 18001, ISO 9001, and TL 9001 management systems at manufacturing facilities, public facilities, hot-ass fault, and mining operations. I want to hear about that. And hold some master's degree from Duke University and a bachelor's from Cornell. Jolene? So thank you for coming. Before I start, I want to introduce my colleague, Troy Ward. He is the Director of Real Estate and Work Services at Juniper Networks, and we're co-presenting, actually, because unlike some of the other stories you've heard on the panel today, the certification process and ownership at Juniper actually is divided between the real estate group, which also contains facilities, as well as the environmental health safety and security group. So we work very closely together, but we do report into different structures and have different majors who have different goals and objectives for their organization. So that's why we're sharing responsibilities. So from the title slide, we know that we are going through, we are ISO 14001 certified, our Sunnyvale Headquarter Campus, and we're pursuing Energy Star, as well as lead certification at our new Sunnyvale Headquarter Campus that's currently being built out right now. So before starting, I just want to go over, so Juniper Networks is about a 10,000 headcount company. We have about 127 offices in our real estate portfolio globally. We include R&D center sales, manufacturing partners, but really the two biggest in our largest proportion of square footage and headcount is actually in the Sunnyvale Headquarter site, as well as in Vancouver, which apparently is not on the slide. But, so, oh yeah, that's in red. So one of the things that we have been focusing on are these two main campuses when we're going through certification because that is where manufacturing is. We have the most headcount and we have the most sites. One of the things that's been unique about these two sites as well is in Sunnyvale, as I said, we are building out a new campus and in Bangalore, they're looking to start development of a new consolidated campus. Right now we have four buildings, they're sort of scattered all over the city and they want to bring it together and they're actually right now looking for plans and developers. They're building into the requirements being an energy efficiency initiative in the development. So one of the things I wanted to point out and the rest of this we're going to focus on Sunnyvale since a lot of our focus has been on that site and it's been used as sort of a model to basically get those sites certified, learn from that experience and then transfer it to other locations. For example, in ISO 14001, the goal is to move the 14001 certification to Westford, Amsterdam and Bangalore, sort of our regional headquarters to meet customer demands. Our operational efficiency sort of objective really falls under a corporate citizenship and sustainability which is managed by our corporate social responsibility committee which is composed of four EVPs and they're the ones that are really driving this and have been requesting for these initiatives to, from an operational side to reduce costs but also to address a number of different customer requirements that have been thrown at Juniper through RFPs as well as there's a number of different committees and councils like the industry code of conduct as well as the joint audit commission in the EU that just launched and they're focused on sort of doing a consolidated audit of a lot of their telecommunications suppliers. So, as Ralph shared and also Linda if we're okay we're ISO 14001 certified and then we're also going for lead certification, energy star as well as we are green business certified. In terms of the drivers, why we've done it as I shared is for 14001 it has really been a customer requirement and a request and by having that certification which includes a number of carbon reduction as well as energy savings initiatives and objectives and targets it also looks at lead and energy star as part of initiatives under ISO 14001. So, the way that's laid out is under ISO 14001 we capture our lead initiatives energy star initiatives and our green business certification and as Ralph described we sort of all feed up into each other. If anyone has been part of our green business there's a number of energy efficiency initiatives that you have to implement as well as track which then sort of feeds into energy star which is required for our lead certification. A number of drivers as I said you know we have customer and shareholder operation but one of the things as I think Linda touched upon earlier is we really felt that by having the certification it was something that we could rally employees behind. What we have learned from our 14001 is in terms of getting environmental buy-in it's hard to tell people we'll do it because it's good it's good for the environment, it's socially responsible it definitely has a lot more buy-in when it says you know our EVP wants to do it. If you don't do it we're going to lose our certification. It's going to have major consequences not only from an operation standpoint but sort of looking further down in terms of information we're recording for the public as well as potential excuse me customer projects. And then the other thing we've learned is you know with this 14001 lead and energy star it's a great way for us to sort of go back to our senior management and ask for resources. I wish everyone keeps that. So considerations for certifications one of the things that Troy and I were going together this presentation you know as I said we sort of managed ISO 14001, they managed the EPA so we're trying to go through a lot of the information and one of the things that we sort of realized especially for lead and energy star and our new campus is that the new campus was one of the drivers since we had a blank state I mean we could sort of build it to the way we want. We could work with our developers and also address Sunnyvale's requirement we thought that was a great reason to go through certification. Now in terms of the challenges just like the other companies said you know we have small departments there's lots of projects there's a lot, not a lot in-house expertise and there needs to be ongoing support. One of the things with certification is not just about the initial upfront to sort of go through a certification process provide the documents to the auditors or USGBC etc but it's also there is a resource need to keep maintenance of it especially when you're starting to talk about ISO 14001, ISO 5001 there is sort of this ongoing audit, management reviews, communication awareness, documentation etc. Also from standpoint we're looking at the existing campus at Sunnyvale one of the things that we're worried about was just like Ralph described we have a lot of older buildings that we are leasing so it was very difficult to explain or to encourage the resources to implement a number of these energy efficiency projects within these older buildings because the payback was a little bit too long for us and we didn't own the buildings and usually out there the lease would expire before we would actually get the return on investment. So one of the things regarding benefits from certifications and best practices obviously a lot of people say you know because it's good for the environment or it's good for social responsibility standpoint because you have the ROI but really from certification what Troy and I came up with was we're doing it because we're told to do it. So it needs to say requirements for construction it needs customer and shareholder requirements so really those are the true benefits that we were able to steal from having the certification in place. However going through the certification process you do sort of start implementing best practices you start to look at your processes and what you have in place and look at ways to make things you know more energy efficient to do work better to use resources better and that is something that you know is that coming from the actual certification or is that actually coming from the best practices that you implement to achieve these certifications. You know just three main categories that we came up with compliance social responsibility and cost reduction and as I said you know incorporating best management practices in design and operation new buildings and campus that was something we did because it made sense for us with the building of the new campus acceptable ROIs on long term investments for own buildings for cost reduction that made sense for us because we're now moving in so the longer paybacks of 10 years plus was okay because we'll be in those buildings and it was an investment versus 10 years being in lease space does not make a lot of sense. So that was an overview of Jamfer Networks and thank you very much. No. Our next speaker which you already know about is Troy Ward he's the Director of Real Estate and Workplace Services at Jamfer Networks. He's responsible for... He's here for the Q&A. So you're not going to present. He's going to be a Q&A. Wow. Okay. Well great. So I'm going to open this up to questions. Anybody have some questions here? Sure. If you'd stand up at the mic that would be helpful. Sure. I guess the question basically is in the end do you consider this like a tax on doing business or is it something that pays for itself? We'd like to start that one. I can tell you it doesn't pay for your side. It's a very simple answer. I think very similar to Brocade, Juniper with the exception of my friend Mukesh at Oracle. ISO 14001 could be a barrier to entering markets to the extent that if our customers are demanding it it's well worth investing the resources to obtain that certification for business reasons specifically. The answer would benefit would simply be you've got some operational savings, you've got some sustainability message you can market around but quite frankly the ISO was a mandate to get certified because our European customers demanded it. And very similarly to Juniper, we certified ISO 14001 in Sunnyvale we're now trying to implement it in a much broader sense because our European customers come back and say what are you doing in our region? So I think that's perhaps the exception but some of the energy efficiency measures can ultimately pay for itself. If we said that we would have otherwise not implemented energy efficiency measures because we wanted to improve our energy star score there's a direct payback to that it may be a longer ROI or a shorter ROI but ultimately it could offset the resources invested to obtain that certification. And I also think that we're a lot of us are talking about new construction and it's always better where you can get your payback more easily when you're talking about that to retrofit an existing building and to try to get reasonable payback is a little more challenging. And let me also clarify that we do have facilities our manufacturing facilities ISO 14001 certified they are not required for buildings we went through the process in AMIA 11 countries certification and after keeping the certification for a year or two we decided we are not going to renew it because the cost was coming out to be a tax kind of thing. Come on up and while he's coming up I'm going to ask the panelists do you have capital budget set aside for these projects? Or is this something that has to be justified on project by project basis? First of all Linda? Well we always forecast a year in advance so yeah we set aside capital for these types of projects. Specifically for gold I mean the energy star of eight projects or is the certification just a part of that renovation project? It's part of our projects. Lukash? We do not have any specific budget for certification unless it is business requirement. For example when we are building our building in Pleasanton just like Ralf mentioned about lead requirement by the city when we had to do that as a business requirement we budgeted for it. So it's not specifically set aside for any of these purposes. Ralf? Capital budget with respect to energy efficiency implementation upgrades we certainly do set that aside and we do it in our capital planning process. Lead support in the form of consulting services is really an operational expense that we also put a line out when the budget and submit it for approval so the short answer is yeah we do in our budget cycles and identify those goals and get funding for it. I'll let you Troy you want to speak? Yeah I can talk about certification and one of the things that we have been doing as they said we work closely with facilities and they manage one of our primary objectives and targets around greenhouse gas production and energy. We do meet with them on an annual basis to identify initiatives in different technologies that they would want to implement to improve energy efficiency or to measure better etc so that does get included in the budget cycle as well and same thing for our 14,000 certification auditors consultancies etc that's also built into our budget cycle. We'll also identify individual capital projects on a case-by-case basis and justifying a little bit of it. Great thank you Go ahead I'm Chris Green president of PM Green Engineers I just want to explore this a little bit further I know how tough CFOs are in terms of eternal rate of return or payback whatever measure they're using but I know one of the benefits of having these kinds of green facilities is attracting and retaining the kind of staff that all of you compete for in your facilities and it's hard to put a number on that but we had an interesting experiment in the 2008 real estate decline because statistics were coming out of San Francisco there were a bunch of new buildings that had gone up before that some of the developers had gone for formal lead certification and some had not and during that crisis people were beginning to vacate their leases they were canceling out on their leases companies were going bankrupt so occupancy rates were going down and what happened was in San Francisco comparably located class A buildings that were adjacent to each other there was a big difference in terms of the occupancy rate and the dollar per square foot rental rate the developers were getting whether their building was lead certified or not and now this is San Francisco so there might have been a bias towards that but it was a real market test that those buildings that had lead certification had like 85% occupancy and you know maybe they were getting you know what it might have been 350 or something like that and those that weren't were at 60% occupancy and a bunch of developers going into constructing buildings that had decided not to get lead certification suddenly rushed out and began to get lead certification because they knew they needed it in the marketplace now you guys don't lease your buildings but it kind of shows that if there's a market test you know that people want you know companies want to go into buildings that are lead certified or people want to be employed by companies that are in lead certified buildings that this could actually in a way out way anything like you know what's the in an eight year payback or a six year payback you know in terms of energy savings for you know certain items so have you attempted to actually get metrics around this and does that have any credibility you know in the CFO suite or in the other senior executive suite that you know that there really is kind of a concrete hard-nosed business reason to do it even if it's one that's hard to get concrete numbers to justify so I guess that's the question I'm wondering is that discussion going around the executive suites or is it all about you know energy payback Chris great question but yeah quite frankly it's impossible to quantify the benefit of having a lead or an initiative to start building and how that does attract and retain employees I don't think well we or I personally have no numbers around that and any of the presentations that we develop for management we don't even speak to it it's a soft-cost benefit perhaps but not part of the consideration so energy efficiency measures are fundamentally done through the merit of each project and its own economic analysis and you can't factor into the intangible can't quantify those benefits it is Troy that sounds like a good question for you too I agree kind of on the developer side yes there's advantages to going ahead and getting leads or education kind of like NetApps and Juniper we need it for our customers developers would need it for their customers coming in so that's where the benefit would be as somebody looking at a building from the other side of course you're going to be looking at the gold leaf silver building first because they know operating costs are going to be less than that building so we have taken it simple posing we will follow the guidelines developed by the lead, the energy star or any other building energy quotient whichever the processes are and we will do even better than those and we have done better than those but we will not go through the extra step of documenting and paperwork and go to the certification unless there is a business value for it and that is the business value is if the requirement for the city to do that is not going to be voluntary because that's where we find enormous amount of expense, former tracking and former items required that we have not seen getting paid off and I think that Ralph and I were in a session a couple of months ago where the sustainable real estate round table talked about this issue you know whether or not real estate that is energy star or lead attracts more business or not and there is not a lot of hard data but there is some studies that show because lead buildings for example have better air circulation that perhaps there is better productivity in those buildings certainly on the retention side it is an attractive feature to be a green company for frankly a lot of the fresh out of college college grad so it is an attraction for employees my name is Chris Verma I have instituted Silicon Valley Technical Institute in San Jose every corporation has a different type of space A office space B is manufacturing space third is the server farm all these things I am not quite familiar with 14,000 do you have a spec for every space different type or they are kind of uniform for all type of spaces so the manufacturing space predominantly is governed by ISO 9001 even if you don't do direct manufacturing it is all through contract it does address space it does address constructability it does briefly touch upon efficiency 14,001 doesn't really define the occupancy of the space it is really a little bit more in terms of process and documentation and it doesn't necessarily limit itself to any type of space it could be applied in your manufacturing space it could be applied in your office building it could be applied in your server farms we specifically chose to put a metric around their server farms because at least in Sunnyvale we have a 10 megawatt demand at 1.7 million square feet and 50% of it is the server farm that occupies roughly 20,000 square feet or 30,000 square feet so energy intensity is so enormous in the server farm or data center that it seemed logical to decouple that too because you distort office kilowatt hours per square foot if you include your server farms and then you can't perform to any of the you know CPEX standards out there so so at juniper we're primarily office space with some lab and server rooms but we don't do manufacturing we don't have manufacturing facilities but within the 14,000 Ralph was talking about it's really a standard that's pretty open in terms of how you want to interpret it does really just focus on you know how do you look at your rest and how do you manage it in terms of the environmental standpoint now from what juniper has done in terms of actually putting that standard and creating stuff or creating standards around space we have started to document with facilities on how specific areas new buildings, new spaces should be built out in terms of energy efficiency standpoint lab temperature controls etc ergonomics included in the presentation about space like office building you would see from the energy point of view as low as 10 kilowatt hours number that Ralph mentioned to as much as 30, 40 kilowatt hours of square foot but in the data center space for the same part of square foot would be running in about 400 to 1,000 kilowatt hours of square foot so you can see a big difference between the two of them so that's why those two are disc decoupled and there are different metrics that are used in a data center space for you to find out what you can do with it my own philosophy is that you want to measure those metrics that will lead you to make a decision to act upon so that you can improve the performance and save the energy and my second philosophy if you think about it and energy kilowatt hours same is greener than kilowatt hour produced from any source so keep that in mind and that's what our driver and the second thing I say in a very fun way is that green is green when it says you're green if you start saying you're green you are not going to be able to sustain it over a long period one last question here two of us in green four solutions just tying off exactly on your question about lead or not lead it seems to me that there's evidence now that people have achieved lead certification have the plaque on the front of the building and then they get off to doing other things and they kind of fall off the wagon so at some point USGBC and I suspect they're wrestling with recertification so did the concept of we don't know if we can keep this puppy lit up all the way through we'll just go lead like and have a commitment that might be ISO based or rigor based as the way to make sure we keep going it but was the chance of not being able to recertify ever part of your strategy or your conversation about lead or no lead let me address that because we're specifically doing that right now definite commitment to go from new construction certification to existing buildings maintenance operations in which case you do have to document and certify and continually recertify and because our development horizon is relatively long and we still want to meet the bonus far requirements we've made that commitment to continue to recertify because at the time we file for the next building permit we'll have to demonstrate that we are actually certified with the portfolio that allows us to build the building at the floor area ratio that we're submitting to so internal internal is well I mean it's an external handcuff but it's because it's our direct benefit we're going to want to do it and then that way it's easily going to get approved in fact I would doubt that we'd have any budget pushback in doing so it's the same thing with energy star you get energy star for a year you've got to recertify every year but energy star yeah they don't necessarily as the portfolio energy star isn't the biggest hurdle to overcome as more and more buildings get certified you incrementally will have that bar raised USGBC though every next version becomes that much more difficult and so there is a you know a big concern that well yeah you would go this time around under the next certification you may not be and then what other incremental things that you have to implement to do it so yeah it has to be thought out and definitely has to be funded since we are not doing much of the certification recertification issue is not critical for us but I do want to mention something about the energy star energy star is an area where you look at energy use in buildings but you're allowed to detect energy use for processing equipment and many times your IT equipment becomes a processing equipment and I have seen many different locations and very different sites that I've worked in the past in one of my projects then the way they estimate their energy use by the IT equipment is looking at the name plate reading 8760 hours a year and very soon when they add this number they find their energy consumption is very very low for the rest of the industry and they take that particular guide in their client policy application to the point that EPA got so in the area they decided that from now on in the future you have to measure that power energy separately before you can be given credit for that that's understandable so a lot of certification you see in the industry I do not know if given proper credit for their process load or they were overestimated I'm going to kind of call it here I think we've had an excellent panel I appreciate your participation and really I want to thank all of our panel members for participating here