 George Bruno with the 21 report we're at the 21 convention the final event of the decade and I'm talking with Tanner Guzzi welcome Thanks, George. Yeah, fun to be back. How'd it go today? I feel like it went well. It was It was fun to veer away from I didn't talk about style stuff today Yeah, I got to talk about how important it is that we are Agents of action as opposed to objects that are acted upon because one of the things that I found over the years that we've been Doing this kind of stuff or our time talking about You know you read blogs and you get involved with all this stuff and a lot of guys get caught in this kind of analysis Paralysis or how do I how do I pursue this or what's my perfect plan or anything? And so you don't you can't think your way into being a better version of yourself You just have to act you have to do stuff and most of us a lot of guys get scared And I think that's one of the big differences between the kind of guys who become the speakers and then become the kind of People that other men want to you know kind of eventually Yeah It's aspire to be like is that these are the guys who are actually doing things as opposed to just Theorizing or talking about them. What's interesting is I'm Finding guys are showing up at these conventions now with suits on have you seen like some really well-dressed men now? I mean they're they're dressed pretty tight, right? Yeah, and it's fun because you get you get a couple guys I've noticed a few that this time around that are doing suits and doing them well Yeah, and you also have a lot of guys who are doing casual stuff, but they're also doing that well, too Yeah, yeah, there's not a lot when it comes to and even the guys who from an execution standpoint Yeah, aren't necessarily doing great to their credit You can tell that they're trying that they're putting some energy and some effort into it as opposed to just I don't know I grabbed the four shirts and the one pair of cargo shorts that I just threw those in the in the suitcase, and I'm just gonna wear Whatever today, it's whatever's on on top of the suitcase. Yeah, you know that was The the the bar has been raised by these guys and it's been fun to see yeah, what was the goal of your talk today? To get guys to to yeah to stop theorizing to start doing something to stop being afraid of action to stop being afraid of failure to Realize that Rationality and a perfect plan and being able to fully think everything out and all that it's just Paralysis if you don't actually do anything yet. Yeah, yeah, cuz I want I'm that way I was that way for years. In fact my buddy Ryan Mickler who runs a site called order of man He's the one who really turned me on to this idea. You just you just have to execute and Basically just sharing from my own experience Maybe in a selfish way just kind of like reminding myself that it's like don't wait for things to be perfect So you're never gonna be perfect Don't wait until you have a plan that has a hundred percent surety or maybe even any five percent surety or even It's an error to think we can even quantify at that level of sure you can't right you just have to act You just have to to try and that means a lot of times you're gonna fail And then you have to be mature enough and intelligent enough to be able to try Okay, well, why did I fail and what didn't work and did I just not give enough time? Or did I do this wrong and you just have to be willing to get into the arena and and pivot and exchange and play from there What is the role of? fashion smart fashion sense Changing your image in a man's life. What what? What is the role of that in his life? That's a good question. That's a fun one because a lot of men will assume that it's It's a way to affect the way that other people see us And that's a real thing most guys sadly. Well, you know, I was just dealing with somebody on this with about this on Twitter The other day where it was yesterday. He says, you know, I don't care what I want But if a girl's worth it, I'm gonna put on a button-up shirt for you You know and then what I said is I said what a castrated way to look at your your appearance Right because the idea that you the only reason you should care about the way that you look is to impress a woman It's pretty sad and pretty silly. Yeah, right And so one there's the idea of how do you send the right kind of signals that you want to send and how do you communicate with? Other people and that is that's that's important that works from a perspective of demonstrating the tactical virtues things like courage strength mastery and honor But I think the real important one and this is one that my clients really experiences We work together one of the things that I've realized for myself and tell me if this is your your own experiences The style is kind of a placebo that we could administer to ourselves You know when you think about the placebo effect where Physically something doesn't change but because you believe something is different you start to feel and act and respond differently a Good example of this from Rory Sutherland's book alchemy as he talks about the bravery of placebo Where you look at War chance and the beating of the drums and the brothers and arms and the camaraderie and the metals and all this other stuff And it's a way to get men brave enough to go out and do something sure dangerous and risky, right? It is a placebo it changes their internal state of being sure as a result of all these other kind of Disconnected maybe nebulous things. Yeah, that's what style is. Yeah It's a self placebo to make you feel like I am capable of becoming what the most aspirational version of myself is That's why kids play dress up. Yeah, right My son doesn't put on a spider-man costume at five years old because he wants to impress the girl down the street Right or because he wants the other kids there. I think he's cool He does it because it makes him feel like he's spider-man. Yeah He's perceiving himself by putting on this costume and we forget that as we get older and what we don't realize is We actually Placeb ourselves to self placebo into self-placation Why I've just arrived I just want to be comfortable and if your main aesthetic goal if your main clothing goal is to be comfortable Then that tricks that that triggers your mindset into thinking That's all I want to do in anything else comfort is now my main pursuit. That's the thing. I'm the most interested I think what I first met you we we talked about Don't sacrifice style on the altar of comfort. Yeah, exactly and most men do most men do sadly because They they just have all these kind of bogus and erroneous ideas about why we care It's vain or it's feminine or it's gay or it's whatever other reasons That was one of the things I talked about in my presentation today is we live in a world Where as men we have delegated all beauty to women women are responsible for how beautiful our homes are or they're allowed to Talk about beauty. Yeah, and the only way that we as men can appreciate beauty is from the sexualization of the beauty of women Interesting, you know, you'd have guys who would you can't talk about how a woman is in her 60s and she's beautiful because well, she's past your sexual prime It's like no, no, there's beauty beyond just sexual beauty Yeah, and there's beauty beyond just person-to-person beauty and the idea that we should make our buildings and our bodies and our Appearance and everything else more beautiful and that that there will be people who watch this in cringe thinking about that Because they take the sexualization and the effeminization of that and that's not the way man's relationship has been with beauty for Generations and tell just fairly recently tell me that Michelangelo or that Da Vinci or all these other architects or artists or all these other creators the men who would make their Cannons these beautiful things or their armor into these intricate pieces of work that they're doing it to get laid Right because they were into other dudes, right? It's a ridiculous idea Beauty has value in and of itself and men need to appreciate beauty more. Yeah, and it doesn't end it Beauty evolves absolutely the wall. I think there's too much teaching on the wall, right? Yeah, and that even that idea of well, somebody's lost their their sexual market value in one regard Means that they've lost their inherent human value in every regard, right? It's stupid, right? It's stupid. Yeah Yeah, I triggered a bunch of people not too long ago when I said something like a woman I Made some comment where I said like 60 year old women are beautiful I just something like that because I just I think if if a woman takes care of herself, uh-huh Not unlike men, you know if you take care of yourself and you age gracefully There's a beauty there There is there's and and we've lost that because we fetishize youth because we sexualize everything Yeah, and the idea that that my wife and my daughters are going to have to feel like okay My wife she's had four kids. Yeah, her body's different. She takes fantastic care of herself and her body is still different Yes, right the idea that she's lost her beauty Because she's not the same as she was when I when she was 21 and I first married her and that I somehow of what tricked Myself into thinking that because she's beautiful now, and it's not the same kind of beauty that I'm just Rationalizing that I'm just pissed off because she's not the same, you know new bio virgin blah blah blah It's ridiculous. Yeah, the idea that the only value is sexual value The only beauty is sexual beauty. Yeah, it's such a limited and non like slang, but literal like retarded way You're retarded yourself when you think about that. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I get kind of Actually now I'm at the point where I laugh at when I start hearing things like the epiphany phase and and hitting the wall And past her prime and this kind of stuff and you know that applies to men Women age like men age like wine women age like milk I see plenty of men who age like milk and plenty of women who age exactly yeah, it's all on an individual basis Right. Well, what's that is the current the culture is in has really engaged in that I think a lot of guys are right for calling that out in that We're a culture that we deal with sex as a currency and that's our main That's the main way that we interact with each other And if your value is only sexual then you do hit a wall Yeah, you do go through an epiphany phase and it's sad and pathetic and disgusting and every other epithet I can throw at it right that that's the culture that we live in right because people are way more valuable than just their sexual value Absolutely, what is your? If I say the word dad bod What? react to that dad bod is Complacency dad bod is I've stopped aspiring dad bod as I have arrived and I can just rest on my laurels Dad bod is I'm looking for excuses dad bod is I Don't believe that I can be or that I should be aspirational for my children So dad bod is kind of a manifestation of everything that is the enemy that doesn't mean you have to be Jacked and shredded in tan. Yeah Right, but it does mean that you should be able to Yeah, I love the way that Alexander has talked about fitness this weekend because we look at fitness again Like like sex or anything else where we we just get into this very microscopic limited view of it is fitness is aesthetic in its abs. Yeah, okay Yeah, if you've got great abs, but you can't actually have kids because you've killed your testosterone Right, are you actually fit right or you can't play with your kids? Because you're hungry all the time and you're hangry all the time and cranky because you're down to that shredded level Does that actually count as fitness? And so dad bod isn't even necessarily an aesthetic manifestation, even though it obviously shows up that way But it's my body now gets in the way of my being my best self and being the best version of a father I can be as opposed to being a tool that contributes to that I Remember hearing him talk about You can be just a great-looking body and nothing else. Yeah, and he came to that that epiphany in his own life where There was nothing more than that right. He was just like a good-looking guy with a nice bod and As soon as he realized that that's when the depth started and things changed for him Right and what's cool is that he didn't have to sacrifice his body to do it right because a lot of people get into this kind Mutual exclusivity of you can be intelligent or you can be athletic. Yeah, and they're not mutually exclusive Right, we can be both right in fact my experience has been as I've gotten in better shape. It's improved my intelligence It's improved my ability to relate to other people. It's improved my my own self assurance It's made me better as a father. It's made me better with business It's made me better spiritually our bodies are they're beautiful tools and it's sad the way that we abuse them Whether that's our brains or the rest of our bodies, but we do yeah, yeah What do you see for the future of the 21 convention? What kind of trajectory are we on now? We both agree that there's been a pivot right What do you see the future looking like that's a fun question too because I've been here I mean yeah, I mean now for this one other than Anthony. I've been here longer than anybody else Yeah, yeah, which is kind of wild to think about and I know he had other guys who were with him for longer periods And I've been but I'm kind of I'm kind of the old guard and I've been through now two transitions or two pets Two pivots as far as how this goes it. I'm really optimistic about this one because It it's important to understand How we relate to women it is and I understand why so many guys focus on that I understand why so many guys come into this idea of masculinity and being a man We in search of that I get that and it is it's valuable. You can't you can't exist You can't thrive without having relationships with women, right? It's not the only thing And I'm so it's been so fun to be able to be here this weekend and here guys talk about masculine self-development in ways that have little to do or nothing to do with how do I get a woman or women in general to approve of me or validate me But it's a bigger and a deeper mission It's more meaningful than that and again It doesn't come at the exclusion of this again What most guys will find is so I'm good at these things that a lot of it bleeds over into this other stuff, too Yeah, and so I love seeing it go deeper and I hope that it continues to go deeper It continues to get more noble it continues to get more meaningful and more impactful and in a way it gets to be something that is more Inclusive but not inclusive the way that most of us hear that and kind of cringe at it Inclusive in that you don't compromise on the ideals, but you just expand on The way that other people see that they can relate to them. Yeah. Yeah, I mean we had Socrates talking about how to change the diaper And I had like I'm just like Looking at him in disbelief. I'm sitting in the back there. I think I was sitting. Yeah, I'm sitting in the last row and I'm He's actually teaching men. Yeah, literally teaching men how to change a diaper. Yeah, and I told him in the interview I think that um That's appropriate because a lot of guys don't have kids and he's establishing himself as the expert in Like he's a he's a a very conscious parent because he had his first kid at 48 Right, so I'm sure he was walking on eggshells and you know, can I do this? Can I pull this thing off? Uh-huh and With all of that data going through the Socrates brain and then watching it get interpreted and then communicated like that I never heard a man talk about competency in changing a diaper and information, you know Diffuses your fear. Mm-hmm about those things and I think Style and fashion is the same way, right? It's not the domain of the gay guy It's not the domain of the effeminate guy. It's not the domain of some expert, right? Joe you know dickies or Carhartt can actually You know change his style and change his life, right like your son becomes spider-man when he puts on a Spider-man suit you should have seen in Poland when Jack Donovan showed up in a suit. Yeah Yeah, we were we worked back and forth on that before he even yeah got it commissioned and everything I was it was amazing powerful, huh? It was amazing. Yeah, he became spider-man Yes, literally it was became the Bond villain He's always wanted to be it really was and he played the part and it worked right because again It's that self placebo. Yeah, where he feels different when he's in that. Yeah, and yeah, you you act differently You respond differently you think differently and everybody was complimenting him. Oh, I bet we didn't you know No one ever expected that right. I was like wait a minute. That's Jack Donovan's head on this suit like Like well, it's fun as he did it well. Yeah, cuz it's not some he didn't look like Michael Scott You know or so I guess I have to wear a suit I'm gonna go pick one up at Jose Bank where it's you know five for a dollar. Yeah, and hope that it fits me Well, anything else like no he he did it. Well, he did it custom We talked about what kind of things he was gonna get and so it was very intentional and That's what made it work. It really worked. Yeah, it really worked and Everyone saw that it worked and and was very vocal about it. So I think it it reinforced it with him because I was expecting you know like the The under armor shirt, you know with the yeah with the coughs and the you know Yeah, which is what he's done this weekend. And that's just you know that that's just that's just typical uniform Yeah, yeah, exactly, but he did act different. I Should have I should have brought that up in my interview with him rhythm about it. Yeah. Yeah. It was fascinating. Yeah All right clothes make the man Muscles make the clothes What do you think about that? Yeah, someone say that okay? I like that because I've experienced this myself where I Kind of look back and I hope that this is always the case and this again goes to this idea if you have to act Because when I look back I first started riding masculine style about eight years ago Okay, and I go back and I look at my pictures That I was trying to do and you're trying to model right you don't know how to do it You're trying to dress well And you don't really know how to do it and there's little like hundred fifty five pounds skinny fat me with these Noodle arms and everything and I look back and just kind of go. How was I riding this like what was I? Yeah, what was I thinking that I'm putting this kind of content out? Yeah, and it's different now when you put on I put on about 30 pounds and thankfully most of that's muscle since then and You carry yourself differently your clothes hang differently and Your presence your timber everything changes as a result of that and so and I think that's one of the reasons again Why Jack looked really good in the suit because you take this contrast principle and again It's the idea of not just being one-dimensional. It's being multifaceted We think again you can have a body or you can have brains you can have this brute raw violent masculinity Or you can have a sense of aesthetics and art and style and appreciation for creation and design and all those things And then when you take people Who have a body? That the way that it's built and the way that they carry it and the way that they are within it That it talks about things like strength and violence and this more kind of raw carnal masculinity And then you clothe it with things that are representative of civilization and art and personality All of a sudden you go from being very one-dimensional To being a three-dimensional person and it makes it so much more visually interesting It makes you so much more compelling and you feel more complete that way because you're able to have both Aspects when you see yourself in the mirror or when you see that you're interacting with somebody else It's a powerful thing. So absolutely. I would I would agree with with both of those Fitted clothing If all a man does is start purchasing Fitted clothing that can change his life. Yeah, do you agree with that? Yeah, and I think that the caveat to that is it's a great place to start But don't stop there. Yeah a lot of guys stop there And this is one of the things that I experienced a lot a lot of the guys So I bring on is my coaching clients will Start this process and they will get stuff that fits and they'll feel a little bit better in it And they'll recognize it, but maybe some of the stuff they still decide that they're not going to wear or They over correct and they go to things that are so skinny that they don't fit anymore in that regard either or all these And so it is it's a great place to start But fit is not the only thing that matters you have to be able to understand the context You have to be able to know what you're communicating you have to be able to understand how to create that balance between Raw violent masculinity and more civilized discipline masculinity and all these other things and fit is not Not the only tool in your toolkit. Yeah, but it's an important one and it's one of the best ones to start off with Yeah Would you would you say that James Bond is a superhero? I Would I would say he is hmm? Yeah, I don't know but it's just because for me there weren't any real superpowers So I guess we'd have to define what superhero is. Yeah, is there anything because there's nothing supernatural about him, right? So for me, I would say no, but he's certainly aspirational aspirational. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and a well-dressed guy, right? Yeah, and that's part of again. It's that multi-dimensional and that's part of the persona Yeah, because if he weren't James Bond 007 secret agent he were James Bond accountant. Yeah, then the suit really doesn't matter that much, right, right? But it's because you have the balance of those two variables that it lends credibility To his concern for aesthetics and how it fits into the rest of his world. Yeah. Yeah, do you think? Being British has anything of course it does. Of course it does. Okay. Yeah. Yeah When you think about we're my wife and I were joking about this where she's dropping me off at the airport yesterday We're listening to the kids are all in the back, you know, it's 7 30 in the morning My kids are Sleepy and tired and we're listening to they listen to podcasts or you know stories for kids Yeah, and in one of them. There's this little girl who's doing kind of the the intro And she's got this cute little British accent and my wife and I both just look at each other It's why is that so appealing? Yeah, why what is it about it? That's so appealing, but it denotes Class it denotes civilization. It denotes authority. That's all been Engrained into us because of our heritage and what our relationship with the you know with the with the Empire and everything else was and I think that There is a certain association with that as opposed if you know There was he had a cockney accent or if he was Welsh or if you were you know, Southern or anything else like that It would be very different. Yeah, that's different So what do you see now as The future for men now that we have a more balanced approach Like I could care less what a man's pickup ability is In a shit hits the fan scenario right the alpha in that situation the alpha male is a guy who can start a fire Right no matches, right? It's not the guy who's got the smoothest approach, right? Yeah, right, so What is a well-balanced man? Well, yeah, because I guess the question related to that is are we even in this apocalyptic scenario where we're doing because in that case I'm screwed. I'm working on getting better. Yeah, right, but I'm still not there yet as much as I'm working on All my proficiency that would translate over into that. I'm not there But I think a well-balanced man is somebody who again can dive a little bit deeper Who could not look at it as because that's what makes that's what's so funny to me about this idea of The alpha which even that term, you know things you graduate and kind of move beyond that Yeah, but the most masculine man the one who's the most aspiration of the alpha is that way Because he's the most attractive to other women that they're being attracted to him is what grants him that status And that's putting the cart before the horse. They're attracted to him because he has that status It's not that he has that status because they're attracted to him And so I think you're right in most situations other than one in which the only thing that we have to When you think about how easy our lives are from a material standpoint from a survival standpoint Well, so we have other than this spiritual warfare and trying to figure out how we're gonna attract numbers of the opposite sex Yeah, so of course, that's what guys are gonna look at But in any other situation, it's gonna be very different whether that's a physical change or it's very different when you become a father Your ability to pick up multiple chicks has no real impact on what your kids are going to turn out to be right and so a continued focus on that for your own self-justified Masteratory purposes of hey, I've still got it. Yeah, but it comes at the expense and the exclusion of my kids. Yeah is Childish and wasted and foolish. Do you care if women are attracted to you now? I do yeah I'm still I'm bugged that I care about that. Yeah, but I do I don't know if that's man And I don't even know if that's something that I should care about and I think that is a temptation for a lot of men where it's Do I still have it? Yeah, but I still do it because I know my wife's attracted to me Yeah, I know my kids love me and look up to me And there are there are a lot of guys who would feel like that's enough and I I don't know You know just being totally open and honest, which obviously this is what these interviews are for But it does Yeah, I still do think about it, but I don't think about it like I did before I was happily married right it doesn't Drive me it doesn't Define me it doesn't I don't need that validation The same way that I did before I realized I didn't need it. Yeah. Yeah When you coach a man, let's talk about your business. Yeah Who is your ideal client? My ideal client that's fun because it's not necessarily somebody I work with married guys I work with single guys. I work with guys who are in the middle of a divorce or just getting finished with one I work with guys from blue collar and white collar businesses young guys old guys, whatever My ideal client is somebody who is a self-optimizer it's somebody who Recognizes that if I can get my finances and my fitness and my relationships and all of these other variables in my life dialed up and turned up and Then I realized yeah crap I should probably care about my my clothing too because everything else is here And then my clothes are still down here where I was in college or in high school And this is glaring whole and I love working with those guys Especially when they don't quite realize that by turning this one up. It brings the others up as well Yeah, and so for me it's somebody who Like I don't like working with menswear guys They're paying to work with because they've got strong opinions. They're usually wrong I don't like working with guys who as much as I love to try to help guys who are Kind of struggling and they need some early wins I don't like them as clients because they put too much and you shouldn't be putting your money or your time on style You should be putting it on something that has more meaning than that But other guys who are already killing it or starting to kill it in other arenas and they really want to optimize everything else Those are the guys I love working with excellent. How can people find you? So the best way is you can go to masculine-style.com That's where you can go you can even take a quiz to figure out what of my style archetypes It's just a way to just kind of understand how style will work for you individually and go there and take that It'll get you out of my mailing list and then as far as social media is concerned I'm most active on Twitter and on Instagram and both of those are at Tanner Guzzi I also have another thing going on with a buddy of mine where we're talking about this idea again of being more than Just one dimensional because style is a big thing. That's my business. That's what it's built on But we're doing a thing called project M where we challenge ourselves every month to do something new now right now We're taking the air-martial thing that pistol test. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we've done things where We've done the US Marine Corps Physical tests we're gonna be doing you know, we're gonna learn how to hunt We're gonna learn how to fish at some point. We're because neither one of us want to do it We're gonna do a stand-up comedy set and see if we can get good at doing that Yeah, but it's this idea of putting ourselves in not in like uncomfortable awkward impractical joker and make everybody cringe type of uncomfortable situations But situations where we have to grow and we have to step up and we have to act and so yeah, go check out project M We're on YouTube and we've got a podcast and stuff like that too. So I love it So it's just you and someone else. Yeah me and a buddy of my mind and he's a he's a normie. He's not in all of this Yeah, not in the masculine stuff. I mean he is but he's not He's not a content creator in another way and that was very much by design because a lot of the audience that we're going for with those guys are Yeah, just kind of regular guys who realize that complacency is a killer What's the goal of project M for us to be better versions of ourselves? And then hopefully invite other guys along the way to to have some fun while they do you're kind of testing it out on yourself Totally. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the other thing is we want it to be fun Because there are other guys who do you look at like the art of manliness you look at order of man You look at what's going on with 21 convention Masculinity and masculinity and manhood are very serious things and they should be treated seriously And you should also be able to have some fun with it. Yeah, and I'm I'm a relative. I'm not a relatively I'm a serious person. I'm a pretty uptight person And so for me to do this with a friend of mine and do it in a way where We're making fools out of ourselves because we suck at things But we're having fun as we're learning how to do it and everything else We're trying to do it in a way that's a little bit more fun and a little bit more light-hearted to Sounds good. Yeah, it's so where do you see it going a year from now? No idea. That's part of it That's part of what I was saying in my speech days. I don't have a perfect plan, right? I have no idea what a perfect plan Maybe in two years, this is gonna be more important to me than masculine style Yeah, and I'll have a way figured out how to monetize it Sure Maybe we don't have any audience and we just keep doing it for us Maybe it's some of one million different things in between I don't know and I don't need to know all I need to know is we're having fun doing it and we're also going to be willing to change direction if and when the opportunity presents itself and we're gonna try on some things we're gonna suck at and some things we're gonna get good at and We're gonna be very transparent along the way as we go through all that because that's we need to be more action oriented And we want other guys to be more action oriented. You're doing this in a fishbowl where people can exactly and that's part of that Is so that we could remove the fear for these other people because we're really doing it and embarrassing ourselves And it's not that big of a deal. Yeah, I'm not really that embarrassed Yeah, the consequences are really that bad. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty cool. It's fun. I like it Tanner go see. Thank you. Thanks, George. Absolutely What was your experience so far with the 21 convention? Oh I was dead. I was dead professional all across the board really good energy with a lot of people and I just like it's a very positive positive direction this George, this is a this has been a first-class event. It's fantastic. You guys were in a really tight ship I've been to a lot of conventions over the course of my business career and I can tell when things are well run and when things aren't And this is a very well-run operation. I was very impressed. It's pretty incredible to see where Anthony's brought it Especially from last year, which is my first year here to see the upgrades. He's made. It's been incredible I've got my notebook and with every speaker. I've written down about two or three lines under each of the speakers of just Just the key prime stuff that I got. That's good. That's great. It's very surreal man. Yeah, I'm really enjoying it I'm happy to live in such an era where it's such a thing like this is possible I have never seen a group of guys like this a group of 200 men were focused squared away Working on their values just never met a bigger group of wonderful guys It's kind of neat because I've been to a fair amount of conventions in my day But you never see one where the guys like here You can just see Ed Lattimore talking to Tanner about boxing. Yeah, you just sit down and then you tell your boxing experiences Everybody's kind of picking off each other. It's yeah, it has been fantastic And it's been four days of guys All on the same page working the same direction fascinating meaning some of the people Hearing their stories. Yeah, you got people traveling from other parts of the world to come here just to see yeah some of the speakers That's amazing. I think it's impressed me. Everybody here is very serious. Yeah, they're taking it close to their heart What a great convention. Thanks George