 Thank you so much for joining us live and those of you that might be joining us on one of our various channels in the archived episodes. We like to start every episode of course saying thank you to our presenting sponsors. You can see their logos right in front of you on the screen today. And again, these organizations companies they're here to support you and your mission driven goals. So no matter where you are in the nation. All of these sponsors are here supporting you so please do give them a like or some follow Julia Patrick started this amazing concept called the nonprofit show about a year ago. And Julia is the CEO and the American of the American nonprofit Academy. She's unable to join us today so I've got the reins and as I like to say when the cats away the mice or should I say turkeys will play. I'm Margaret Ransom CEO of the Raven Group, also known as the nonprofit nerd. But today I am thrilled to enjoy to guest we typically have one joining us, but today we have to because two heads are better than one. But we have Kelly Balfas or as well as Heidi Fulcher, both joining us from pet smart charities. Welcome. Oh, thanks for having us. Yeah, I didn't I come as a complete set. A lot of the time we do yes, you can have one without the other. Well, today's conversation and and really I'm just going to share extremely transparently Kelly was on Kelly you were on earlier probably last year maybe and I was like, I would love to have your voice back on. This is important and you said, you know, we would really like to talk to nonprofit leaders about the funders perspective. So today's episode is really about the funders perspective. So I'm looking forward to learning and hearing from the inside. What both you and Heidi have to share. We're really truly honored to be able to talk to you about this. I think a lot of people think there's mystery on the other side. In terms of how do you make, you know, how do you determine who you're going to war to what grants are you going to give what are some of the ins and outs so love to be able to provide that opportunity to talk. Great. Yeah, that's wonderful. And so, you know, as we get started, I know one of our questions is, tell us more about pet smart charities and how you're showing up in the funding space, and I think you had shared with me before we went live or as we say open the digital doors just wrapped up a grant process is that right. I did yeah so Heidi and I are are two sides of the funding coin at smart charity so my programs work with owned pets pets that are currently in homes, and then Heidi works with organizations with adoptable pets so I just completed a grant category. It actually closed on Tuesday. It's for preserving families so it's working for those organizations that are helping keep pets with the people that are in crisis. So it's not the crisis of the pets it's the crisis of the human so usually crisis populations like people with housing insecurity or homelessness or those experiencing domestic violence might be hospitalized or going through treatment. So a lot of those grants what can we do from a pet intervention point of view to allow you to access the human services you need, but still keep your pet. It's so important. Thank you for that because I also, we had, I don't know if this is competition but I'd like to mention red rover on as well. Oh, we love red rover. They talked a lot about how you know individuals experiencing domestic violence typically don't leave their situation because of their pet, and so to have these resources is really important to our communities. We actually work with red rover very, very closely, because a lot of red rovers domestic violence grants will actually support the building of the facilities, and then we support the capacity building are operating to continue running those facilities so love the red rover folks. You do national work so pet smart charities is national. And so that's something that I think red rover does as well but really to have that engagement and again all corners of our nation so that's wonderful. Heidi's got her adoptable pet side Heidi you just finished, or you're just starting, we're just starting with the transport grant so with the transport we're really looking at moving animals from overpopulated areas which are typically the south. Two areas of high demand where they don't have enough adoptable animals, mostly dogs but we're seeing a lot of cats. And so that's where we just opened this grant process. So that's where I'm sitting right now in the grant world is transferred so. Well, thank you and Heidi let's let's go there like what makes a good relationship with funders, because I remember and again Heidi and I go way back not to date us but we were probably shopping at 421 together. I remember our eye really was really funders perspective, I was intended to contact foundations, I didn't know where to start and even that funders ships. So can you talk about that Heidi in particular to know your opinions and experience with pet smart chair. You know funders for us, you know, just getting to know us is really key just being having those building relationships that's what we do. You know Kelly and I travel before COVID a lot. We go to conferences and I can't tell you how many people are like well I was at that conference and I didn't come up and it's like that's why we're there. So we have a lot of cases are on our website or emails are on our website and you know we as funders. You look at the people who you're funding because you know you can write really great grants, and you can write really bad grants. But it really is your funding and a lot of confidence of the leader and the leadership of the people to execute the grant so building those relationships and being, you know, keeping communications, going and flowing huge. And that's probably a really big key for us on building relationships and growing programs is the is the people because it's all about people. Yeah, yeah, I find it depends on the funder to because not all thunder are as open as we are to form those relationships. But if if an email is up there, use it. If they didn't want you to contact them they wouldn't put the email out. They wouldn't get in you couldn't find it. Yes, yeah, so it's one of those things so if we're open and out there and I tell people contact me on LinkedIn connect with me on LinkedIn. It's interesting to because as open as we are. I have standard office hours every week where anyone on Thursday today being Thursday, could call me and ask me grant questions, I give you my number and say call and talk to me. And they're oftentimes where I'm sitting on my hands on Thursdays, and you should take advantage of that funder, you know, if that opportunity with funders if they provide it do it. As I was saying, you know I just closed a grant program and those are it was an LOI process. So those that I'm moving forward to a full application. I am offering them the opportunity to schedule a 30 minute meeting with me before they submit their application. And I know, and I'm like, I don't think you understand, I'm really urging you to do that. You know, I can help craft your application for you. Because I am not the final decision maker I'm one of the final decision makers and this often happens in organizations where I'm going to have to advocate for those that I want to fund so I want the best applications moving forward. So utilize me if I make myself available. And a lot of folks are like great I'll call you if I have any questions anyway. Yes, I love that and I just want you both to know that you have a fan watching us so Charleston Animal Society is joining us today. Yes, and they say thank you so much for the impact in South Carolina, which is actually my home state. Well, and yes so so thank you for that it shows really the the span of your I don't know if that's the right word but really of your impact and the relationships you're making. What about do you pet smart charities and maybe funders right in general do you think we're seeing a trending of you know, do we stick to proven methods that are tried and true we've done them. You are open to new ideas. What do funders like. Well, we like both charities we like I love new ideas. I'm always known for like I'll take on a pilot project all day long. And because you don't know what you don't know and what the good thing about pilot programs is that it's okay if they fail right we know that that could be a potential, but then you can tweak it and work it so I love new ideas. So they're always the standard true proven data supported those kind of things, but for charities, we like both. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think it again goes back to if you got to you got to do the research on the funder to see if that's something they're interested in. We have, you know, we have portfolios where we look at a portfolio and there's a risk assessment in there, and we have a certain percentage of grants that we might look at more risky. And these are the ones that I'm okay with and maybe it's 10 or 15% of that portfolio. It kind of varies depending on the program where we say this is a new program. This is a risk this has a higher risk but I'm willing to take this risk because of what that information will tell me. But I always tell my partners, I can't fund ideas, although they're great ideas, I want the idea to be a full plan. So you got to understand what you're doing and the usual they the I have no problem with estimates of things, as long as it's good estimates not an, I think we'll serve this many, or I'm guessing no guessing do do the background and to figure out kind of what it really is get your parameters in place get your policies in place get your collaborations in place. It's not a, if you find me, I will build it and go talk to people then to talk to people first put the plan together first. And I will invest in higher levels if you've got a better plan, because we do want it to succeed. And so we want to make sure you have enough funding to have that capacity to succeed. And there were a lot of programs that we funded in 2019 that were pilot programs that 2020 got derailed. Yes, totally and completely understand provide extension see what happens next year, learn from it. That's why the relationship building as you said, take advantage of these conversations. I actually started my business in 2009 and after you know Kelly it wasn't long after we met after that economic crisis. I started as a grant writer and I remember calling a funder, making up a question so that I could utilize that access. And the funder was like, you know what, we're not funding this right now, really focusing on priority. So I think what you know all of what you're saying and so it's just really important, I keep going back to that relationship, you know, but it's really important because if you're if it is a new idea, and you've talked to the funder. They in particular Kelly and Heidi in this case can really help you navigate. Is this a risk that pet smart charities would be willing to make it this time. Yeah, we also look, you know, I did a pilot project for adoptions up in a focused area to increase in stores and you know we actually had the idea and we searched out our partners, but we also searched out the partners that we had built good relationships with. We knew could do it, and brought them all together to say what do you guys think and so that's the other piece of it that you know we're fortunate to be able to do that as well, is to kind of think about what we call the litter box right. Think outside the box. Right now you say that in normal conversation people are like, yeah, so we can say a lot of things in animal welfare that usually might not fly on the other side. But that's the beauty of kind of where charities is is that we can come up with this idea to, and then, and then go look for these groups that we know can help us and are they interested in doing it so it's kind of a fun relationship but you know relationship building is key to at least with us for grant making. Absolutely. Jared you bought up a good point like you said when you call up a thunder you made up a question to be able to ask. That's key. That's key, like, engage us you have to have like, oftentimes hiding I'll get emails or calls that are like, Okay, here's what we do how can you support us. I can't do that. I can't do the other side. So come to us with like, here's what we're thinking here's where I think it'll fit with your program. Am I reading this correctly. So do your research before you come in of some really good ideas are you know do a Google search on both the organization as well as the funder you're actually reaching out to to see what they may have funded in the past. And if you can do a correlation of oh I see that you funded you know remote area medical. We do something like that here in this community. It's slightly different in this way would this be within the scope. It's really good to make those connections for us, because it's hard for me to take a blind call that says how can you fund me, because I don't know you. Give me the options of what opportunity tell me that you did the work first before you before you reached out. Yeah, we always talk about you know we doing your homework right do your research do your homework. You know if you're applying for a grant that you don't fit into. That's not only a waste of your time it's a waste of everybody else's time so we're really talking about make sure you fit that and do your homework and you know one of the things that we like to say is don't make me work harder to give you money because you're willing to work. So, yeah, kind of like don't make me work so hard. This is really the best practices and I just quickly pulled up that slide so just to reference that again, you know best practices of communication with the funders. Both have said so much, you know, I call them amazing nuggets of information. But I really what are some other best practices because again I remember sitting in the chair as the grant writer or the development, you know person and thinking I like I don't know how to. I don't know how to like even break the ice with the funder but I will tell you and all of you watching Kelly and Heidi are not scary people. They are really fun people. I would want to talk to you now that I know that you have office hours Kelly. How anytime people don't call me I have a lot of time. So what are some other best practices when it comes to communication with funders. I'm going to start at the last minute. Yeah, start the relationship before the grant opens. Yes, like, once the grant opens you're you're on a timeline you're right there. So utilize those conversations utilize the conferences even virtual I have been in virtual booths where no one have come to me this year and those virtual conventions. And they're very inexpensive because they're virtual $60 and you have the ability to have a conversation with a funder. Look into stuff like that and that's just not us I know there are other funders out there that are experiencing the same thing. Start those conversations before the grant opens and then feel free to ask for those conversations when the grant is open look at the questions say here's what I'm here's what I'm asking is this fitting I'm not going to be able to review the entire grant before you submit. But I can I can do the nuggets. Heidi the other one that we talked about previously was having someone else review your grant. Yeah, that's that's big so you know, when I was in graduate school, my sister reviewed all of my papers because you know she was, and it's a huge job to get me wrong but she's stay at home mom and but if it didn't make sense to her. It probably wasn't going to make sense to everybody else because in my head I know what I'm reading and you when you write something you read it over and over and over and you skip things. So, I have a big yeah, I have a big issue with from and form, because spell check doesn't check it. It doesn't find it. And so, every time I hit stand and I'm like, dang, there's that burden wrong again. So it's that piece of have somebody else read it you know somebody else is that I'm not a grammar specialist but I have a co worker that is spot on on grammar down to the comma. Good. And so it's things like that, you know, we talk about building your network and having somebody outside of, you know, your organization review your work, you know, because that's a piece of you know what you're talking about, but did I know what you're talking about. Yeah, that's big. Your sister's going to get a lot of calls. Well, and what did you do. I think the other communication, especially having someone else review it because if someone who has no contact to the organization or what you're asking for doesn't understand. I'm probably not going to either. So from a best practice point of view, oftentimes, the grant writers will ask for feedback. And there's been a couple times like a couple years where I've just stopped giving it because I'm like, I can't it's really hard for me to go back to the 200 applications that I've declined to provide individual feedback on all of those. But if someone calls me during my office hours, I will explain, but take it with the constructive criticism that we're providing because oftentimes a response to that is well that's not what I meant. Okay, this is how it read. So this is what I'm telling you and I can't go back after I've already declined it and say oh well they meant this instead. So, again having someone else review to make sure they understand it and utilizing any of those conversations and relationship building to make sure you're truly getting it across is really really helpful to everybody. I don't like declining grants, I would love to fund everybody and quite frankly everyone continue to give those dollars at the register so that I can give way more money. Shameless talk, good job. Former fundraiser. So, you know, we want our organizations to succeed. We want to fulfill our missions, we just have to do it within our construct. It's not our money. So we got to do it within the contracts of what the what availability it is. No, I was gonna say that's all great points. Go ahead Heidi give it give us more we're listening. Well, Kelly and I did a presentation for Great Lakes Conference, a month or so ago and really about kind of grant making one on one. And it really kind of looked at you know, walking people through steps of writing a grant and for us and we can't speak for any other foundation or funder but you know it really is I'm a visual person so tell me your story make me see your story because your description of your program, your words are either going to make or break the grant I mean that's, you can have a great budget and tell us a bad story. It's not going to matter. So it really is about making us see your issue how are you going to solve it if you have data back that data up because we're going to go look. We go back. Yes, you have to do diligence on the other side for sure. It's really helpful. Well, let's move into, you know, I want to talk about and I know here's the two of you and everyone's going to ask how do I get on their, their schedules or what are your office times. Heidi I'm going to call you out Kelly's told us that she has you have office times. I don't. And I should. I know Kelly Kelly's always steps up to always makes me step up so it's perfect. You know I'm really good at responding on email and I'm also good at saying let's schedule time, because I know sometimes office hours don't fit other people's schedules. And so I'm, I'm kind of that the people want to communicate via email that's great. If they want to schedule time. That's perfect to I love the whole video thing anymore we can't travel and which is really hard on us because we've probably traveled 50% of the time, because we got to see our partners and we got to see shelters and we got to be boots on the ground and so when you're talking about funding and organization we could see we've been there right the physical thing. So I probably should. But at this point that made email I'm happy to schedule time. So I'm going to start with a question. I always like to call these like the million dollar question. I hear so often in our sector that funders talk to other funders. Yeah. Tell me about that. Yeah. Like, well, share more insight about that. You know, it's, it's funny because, you know, when you think about this particular animal welfare space and you've got two major retailers us and PECO I'll even say their name. There's a PECO apparently from a funders point of view, we only compete in wanting to do better grants, really truly that's it. But we also talked to them about kind of where they're funding where they're going what they're doing. I was on a conversation yesterday with best friends. I read Rover and I collaborate if I get a grant that I don't think I can fund that might work within their programs I will actually say have you heard of these guys. We talk to each other a lot. And in some cases, we work very collaboratively together as a matter of fact about three years ago. All of the animal welfare organizations that fund in disaster relief came together to create the national animal disaster collaborate funding collaborative. Because during types of disasters, all of us have these funding opportunities. And it's difficult for funders who are in the middle of a disaster to go online and submit 10 different grants. So we created a common application that is launched during times of large scale natural disasters, where the organizations can submit one grant, all 10 of us look at it. We then get in a room and say what can you do what can you what can you do. Wow, that way we're right sizing the funding because often cases that single, you know grant application was $10,000 to each of us, and they only needed $10,000. But maybe all of us funded and they got 40 so then we're over investing and therefore utilizing some of our budget that didn't need to be used. So we do work collaboratively together, not just informally for these conversations but formally as well. And so when we tell nonprofits, you know, our grantees you all need to collaborate together. We're walking the walk to we want you to be efficient, just the same way we want to be efficient with our funding. Tell me when you put this into place was this due to the pandemic or was this done before that. Oh, this was we launched this before Harvey. Yeah, before Harvey it, and it was actually a brainchild that had been around for a while. And it was just a matter of getting everyone on board and finding organizations that could kind of manage it. So the first actual disaster that that we launched this common application for was Harvey. Soon they're followed by Irma and Maria. Right. So it was the perfect time to do this. The perfect storm. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, Heidi, tell us more about, you know, funders talking to other funders, but then also what about. And what I say, is there, is there ever a time where you're like, you know what, this is an organization that it just went awry. We took the risk, because you guys shared about the, the risk assessment. Does that happen as well where there's, you know, it's not anyone can support this but let me tell you this is what happened when we did take the risk. My theory is, is like we collaborate and we talk a lot, but you know, I always tell my partners, you know, apply to everybody's grants if you fit the criteria. I mean, if you can get from funding from pet smart charities, get some funding from Petco get some funding from Maddie spend. I mean, the bet the better just we don't like to duplicate efforts right. And so when we're looking at just like this transport grant, we're speaking with other large organizations that move animals as well because the last thing we want to do is move a bunch of animals into Toledo, and there's deserts up in Minnesota at Wisconsin and so it really is is like who's moving where it's a kind of a bit of a puzzle. But those are those are the good things that so we don't double fund, we try and make sure that we've got good coverage nationally. And so that requires really some partnerships and just collaboration with the larger organizations that do the same work. As far as things that have failed. We've had some large organizations that have had challenges and, and I'm not going to air dirty laundry to put it nicely. And there's, you know, there's usually a reason if we won't find again. And, and that's kind of the unspoken. Okay, something happened. They're not funding again. Right. Now, again, and none of these questions are scripted. So these are completely off the cuff, but I really like to ask, you know, questions that maybe other people are thinking. And I've been in the sector 20 years and I've are 20 plus and I really have seen a lot of experiences. What if a funder maybe you can talk on your behalf of course you know for pet smart charities said we're not going to fund this organization again. What if there's a leadership change or what if there's a really big change in how they do business. How would we talk to a funder and rebuild a relationship that went awry. I think it depends on why it went awry. And this has happened, you know, if it's a financial issue on why it's been when awry that there was either mish management, or just non reporting. It will have to take a lot of, it's not just a management change because that may be not necessarily a management issue, more of a cultural practice of the organization. Right. So it'll usually have to be something that if we do start those relationships is starting smaller, or that's where we're going to bring into the organizations, the other funders in the area that may be funding that organization how have you worked with them recently what have you seen, we're going to probably check references. That makes sense. Yeah. And maybe not references that they've given you right you're doing right. This is the behind the scenes work we're going to we're going to check your work. Oh my gosh, well this has been amazing I know that I want to share your contact information again because Kelly I don't think you're going to have office hours that you don't receive a phone call and Heidi your email is going to blow up I'm sure as well as your sisters. I don't, there's no connection with your sister's contact. She'll get anything but this has really been I opening for me, you know again I started my business doing grant writing I've been in a sector 20 plus years. There, I still heard new things from both of you and this is really interesting and it keeps me doing what I love to do and we have also received many like kudos and thank you. So, your Johnny Jenkins. Say hi someone saying Johnny. They work with Johnny. Johnny is awesome. East Coast Heidi. Oh, perfect. I like that. Julie Coleman is Kelly's number one fan. And my former boss. Oh, I love that. She still likes Kelly that's awesome. I love it. I'm lovely. Some really great, great accolades and just comments for the both of you so thank you for joining us and I'm sorry to say our time is wrapping up but maybe we'll have you back on again. Julia Patrick typically joins us today she wasn't able to but she's CEO of the American nonprofit Academy. She's also known as the nonprofit nerd CEO of the Raven group. And of course thank you thank you thank you thank you to all of our presenting sponsors. They are the ones that really keep us able to have these expert level fun, very refreshing conversations with people like Kelly and Heidi so thank you for supporting us and the sector at large. What a packed fun show, wonderful for a Friday Eve tomorrow is Friday. I know Friday. Every Friday we do an ask and answer episode so if you have a question that you want to ask us and in fact I did see a question come in for the two of you. Well, so maybe you can answer that for us and we can share it on a future ask and answered so thank you both for joining us. It's been such a pleasure and thanks for all of you watching us live or recording of this. We will see you tomorrow but until then, please stay well, see you can do well. Thank you both so much I am extremely appreciative. Thanks for having us. Yeah.