 Welcome to the non profit show. We are so glad you're here with us today for today's discussion with James Golder partnerships manager at Bloomerang and James is here to talk to us about turning your volunteers into donors so he's got some really good insight to share with us. Before we start the conversation, we always like to remind you who we are as co host. So hello to Julia Patrick as you, if you're watching and not just listening you notice, she's not here today so we wish her the best and enjoy your day off. I'm the CEO of the American nonprofit Academy and we have Julia to thank for this amazing broadcast and platform, because she had the foresight to say back in March of 2020. Hey, I have this kooky idea Jared would you serve alongside me as a co host and I said, absolutely. Although I will tell you James I wasn't quite sure what I was signing up for at that time. But I'm Jared ransom your nonprofit nerd and CEO of the Raven group and together we have helped to produce over 900 episodes. Thank you to our amazing presenting sponsors that Bloomerang is absolutely one of those. In fact, one of the spearheading sponsors so thank you to Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy fundraising Academy at National University nonprofit thought leader your part time controller staffing boutique nonprofit nerd as well as nonprofit tech talk. Thank you to these companies that believe in us trust in us and also pour into our communities and our mission so if you haven't had the opportunity to connect with these companies we highly encourage you to do so. If you need an introduction, please let us know and we would be more than happy to do that for you. So many episodes are loaded onto variety of platforms so there's no excuse to not consume this information whether you're cooking or exercising or traveling. So you can find us on streaming broadcast podcast and also download the app, and in just a couple of hours after our live conversation right now with James you will get a notification that this conversation is now uploaded in perpetuity for you to binge watch and listen to at any time so James thank you for joining us again those of you that have joined us at any time live or one of the recordings James Golder is here with us today. Back with us because you've been on several times over the last four years, you serve as partnerships manager at Bloomerang and again Bloomerang comm is the website so please do check them out. Welcome back to you James. No thank you Jared it's so great to be here I always have such a nice time with you and sorry Julie is not here but I'm looking forward to our conversation. Yeah, me too and I have to tell you, you know you always come on with these very vibrant shirts which unfortunately you don't have one today. But I remember you saying like oh yeah this one's a kachina or this one you know whatever, whatever the shirts are and so when Julia let me know that you are a guest she said, you know the guy that wears the fun shirts. And now I just, I have a black Bloomerang shirt on I'm at a conference and there are a lot of people at Bloomerang who will yell at me if I wear a Hawaiian shirt at a conference so I have to tone it down a little bit sorry. No, I completely understand well, you are at a conference and what you shared with me earlier is you were speaking at the conference, you know, around the same topic so it's fresh on your mind but I also know you eat breathe and sleep this content anyway so let's dive in with you know how we can move volunteers into donors and the first topic we want to have you touch on is this, I'm going to call it a stat a data point is that volunteers donate actually 10 times more than those who do not volunteer. That is shocking. Tell us more about this. Yeah, I was stunned the first time I saw this statistic. And yet the more that I thought through it and the more I continue to think through it, I think it makes sense. So, these people go to whatever the nonprofit is, they get a chance to see that nonprofit in action. They're seeing the impact unfold all around them they're seeing the change in the community. As they get their hands dirty as they get in there and help in any way that they can. So, there's a natural connection being forged as they volunteer so when you then make that pivot and say, Hey, you're already donating your time we appreciate that so much. Would you consider monetary donations as well. That connection is already so strong. That makes a lot of sense. You're not having to sell them as much you're not having to convince them so much. I already know the great stuff that you're doing and they've already said yeah I want to support you with my time so money makes sense to. Yeah, you know, one of the audiences I think of with volunteers first and foremost are our board members right so they are fiduciary agents but by I'm going to say by and large they're often not always often. One of the most like target audiences that are so invested right like they're leading the organization from a legal fiduciary standpoint and their volunteers. Absolutely. Such a great group to get in front of and talk through all of those opportunities so I would also urge you to talk with them about being a regular volunteer in some other capacity aside from being just a board member, but also talk with them about the financial contributions as well so their their heads down focused on, you know, the staffing and budget concerns and all of that kind of stuff so getting them in front of the impact that you do that you accomplish on a day to day and week to week basis can kind of rejuvenate them a little bit, you know kind of remind them oh that's right that's why I give so much time to this organization because we're doing so many cool things. We can see the mission, you know, in action, not sitting around the board table which we can still bring the mission in, but that's that's a great example. Talk to us if you would so we can better understand what motivates our volunteers what's driving them to to give of their time so generously what are some of these motivations you're seeing. There's a few things there's been some studies done on this and one a couple of things stand out. I think there are certainly emotional and mental health and physical benefits that come from volunteering so I know that for a personal example, our youngest had a tough time during the pandemic. No, you know no surprise lots of teenagers did. And so we we decide my wife and I decided that maybe we'll let her foster some kittens. And it was so our house is a little bit of a zoo right now, as it has been for the last couple years, but in a good way, and it really it really helped her a great deal to have something else to focus on to you know realize okay we got to get their weight up because we got to get these little guys spade and neutered and, you know, gives them the goal and the purpose and all of that and it was a real boom for her mental health and emotional well being and all of that which I think is a wonderful reason to volunteer. And then you have people who want to give back to their community, who maybe have needed some services needed some help in the past whatever the situation is and they want to be able to give back and contribute somehow. And then you have people who just see it as a good civic, you know, duty sort of thing so there's a lot of reasons why people volunteer. And it's a really important point to understand why they're volunteering to make sure that you're addressing that and thanking them for that and then that'll help keeping them come back to volunteer time after time. You know that brings up a great point I'm going to three this curveball but I know you're going to knock it out of the park. When someone expresses their interest to volunteer, is that the time when we asked them their motivation. I'm sure I think it depends a little bit on the relationship that you have with that person so if it's the first time that you've ever encountered them. Feel that a little bit if they're eager and smiling and happy to be there and they're engaging with you then absolutely heck yeah ask them if they're a little more reserved. There could be a million reasons why they're volunteering and you might need to earn that trust a little bit before you try to leverage it so I hate to equivocate but I think that it depends a little bit on what the person is like and kind of how you read that situation. When you bring up a good point that even the the origin motivation might change and evolve over time I know I've heard a beautiful story with one of my clients that there is an older woman that was coming to volunteer within the senior program right so she's also a senior and wanted to be of service to other seniors. That was her original motivation but then when she really dug into her volunteer time she said you know what this is benefiting me way more than I think I'm actually benefiting you know the mission and those that I'm serving. And so hearing that evolution you know and you speak to it James so beautifully is that there's so many benefits to volunteering you know. And even though one motivation again might be our origin story of what brings us into the mission. There's so many motivations for us to consider and they they could add up over time. That is such a great point that things evolve I mean think about all of our relationships with each other and how they change over time. And where you start with something and where you end up halfway through and where you finish those may all be different and that's okay. That's great it may be that they get in they volunteer they look around and they say I had no idea the scope of what you do. I came to volunteer with this little piece but I see what you're doing over here and I want to be a part of that too. It's awesome it's fantastic. I want to do that too I love that. Talk to us about segmentation so I feel us going fast through this conversation and we only have 30 minutes right on today's episode and all episodes so there's a lot to cover. But if you would. Why should we or even should we segment our volunteers and if we should be doing this James. How should we go about doing this. Yeah, so yes. Yes, you should segment your volunteers. One of my favorite segments is volunteers who have never donated. So if you're able to run that segment thing you can approach them a little bit different than a cold, you know approach where you've never spoken with that person before, because this person already knows what you're doing they already understand the impact that you're having. If you are able to take it a step further, and then also segment by capacity, you can kind of segment out a little bit and approach the people with major gift capabilities, a little bit differently. The volunteers who haven't donated who don't have major donor capabilities. Maybe you talk to them about monthly giving, but you're going to talk to them and kind of meet them where they are you're going to explain the need to them and then give them the opportunity to help that opportunity, whatever the need is. I will say that the statistics that I have seen the last couple of years told me that volunteers are almost universally really well educated. So a lot of them have a master's degree or higher. And they're also, if you look at the generational breakdown and I'm smiling because I'm so happy to say this. The generation that is volunteering the most right now is gen X. Woohoo. So finally, we're at the top of somebody's list we don't get overlooked for something I can't believe it but it's happened. Congratulations, right. Right, you know, finally. So then the reason I bring that up is that that tells us that again, generally speaking not true for everybody but generally speaking, your volunteers are well educated so they're again generally going to be making more money. And they're at the height or near the height of their earning power. So, figure out how to segment out again the people who haven't donated but have volunteered figure out how to segment out the capacity, because you don't want to send an email to someone who has the capacity to be to be a major donor. An email that says hey join a monthly giving program want to try to segment that out but if you can approach those two groups a little bit differently you're going to have a ton of success, especially if you're wondering how am I going to get my monthly giving program started. This is a great way to do that. I feel like, you know, and I even hate to say this like it could be death by segmentation right like there's so many ways we can slice and dice and you know, all of our data inside of our donor database. And I know because I've had my hands in blooming with a lot of different clients. There's some, you know reports that are already made there it's like a template report if you will or you can start one from scratch. Yeah, another curve ball James but when we talk about segmentation should we be looking at like three key segmentation areas specifically in volunteers. Should we look at whittling that down further is there like a set recipe for what that might look like. There's a set recipe but you can be as creative and drill down as much as you want, and it really does depend on the organization as well so I would start by segmenting out the people who have volunteered but never donated. And then segmenting by capacity if you can if you also are able to take a look at other areas of engagement. So, are they attending events, opening emails. So, any any other areas that they might be interacting and engaging with you that's going to help give you a more complete picture of how important you are to them, and should help you guide that conversation. So, if you think about a school, for instance, maybe you have parents who are volunteering. So that's an extra layer of connection that you can address when you segment and break those break everything down. The more, I mean the more specialized you can do up to a certain point, the better, because you can really craft those messages to really connect with people. But like you said, everyone's time is precious and maybe don't have as much time to drill down as deep as you want so do what you can start with what you can do and and take it from there. I love that it can seem overwhelming and I also will say, you know, from experience once you set these reports up, you can simply change the dates or change some parameters. It's almost you know, get the recipe if you will in place for the report you want to pull, and then slightly change it you know every so often depending on what that looks like. One of the things that I've done, and if you don't mind me sharing is, you know, I have looked at what where, where are their volunteers that have not, you know, made a made a financial donation and then ask them for a very simple $5 $10 $25 donation for one time right because my goal was, we want to move them from a big goose egg to something right and then once they become a financial donor. On top of that, you know, time donor, then we can start stewarding them in a little different way. So for me, it's like just something you know we just want to move that needle ever so slightly and it doesn't have to be a $1,000 gift I said $5 $5 $10 $25 anything like that I think will really move the needle. Well very few people are going to start off and make their first gift $1,000 right if you get that celebrate I mean throw yourself a party because that's awesome but it's not going to happen very often. Exactly. So, yeah, I love that because if you get them in the door, and you shepherd them and you steward them and you engage with them well, and keep communicating and tell those stories of the impact and all of that you're just going to deepen that relationship. And that's going to allow you to to go back and continue to have those conversations with them. That's a great idea. Yeah, well right on cue you said the word story so how can we best connect with our volunteers using storytelling. So, it's really interesting and forgive me in advance because I'm going to brag on my oldest child. Oh, don't don't tell the rest of the kids. Our oldest lives in Chicago, it takes the L train to and from work 45 minutes each way or whatever it is, and reads a lot, a lot of books. So I'm talking about like 150 a year or so something like that. Yeah, exactly. It's a lot of books, help me lucky if I get 150 and a lifetime. Oh, believe me I totally understand. Here's the bragging part and again I apologize. She is an Instagram influencer for books. So, publishers send her books before they're printed or before they're published and get her to post her takes on Instagram and all that. That's how many books she reads it's really pretty cool. That's really cool. So, I read a fair amount not not like that but I read a fair amount myself and we we send books back and recommendations back and forth every once in a while. It's not every book that either of us reads, but when we read something really really good. We'll send each other a text and say hey check this out I think you really enjoy it. And I started thinking about why that is why do I send some book recommendations to her but not all of them and vice versa. And I think it really comes down to character development. So, most stories have, you know, some sort of conflict. There's some sort of change over time a resolution I mean, you know, bank heist book or a spy novel or a horror novel or whatever. They're all going to have a loose, you know, some sort of obstacle that needs to be overcome and then some sort of resolution. But the ones that really capture our attention, in my opinion, are the ones with good characters in it. So that's a long way of me getting to the idea that when we're telling these stories to our donors and to our volunteers, we need to make sure that we have good characters in there. And I realize a lot of privacy concerns we may not be able to name people or show their photos or anything like that totally get it totally understand. So make it anonymous or, you know, change the name I whatever you come up with, but make sure that the stories have the people in them, because that's what other people are really going to care about. When you engage your donors and your volunteers with those stories with the characters that they're going to care about that's when you're really going to move the needle and see some really wonderful results. Wow, I'm just so consumed with listening to this story that you're telling I'm like, what's I want to turn the page what's next what's next. I love that and I'm going to ask a question. As it relates to character development, if we can look at it that way through, you know, the nonprofit I'm going to say fundraising lens and volunteer engagement lens right should we pick a couple of characters and characters I'm using as clients participants, you know, should we pick a couple of them and use that same story throughout the year. What, what does that look like because I'm kind of envisioning James if you will like, let's, let's have three stories that storylines that we want to tell and again it could be through an animal it could be through a child it could be through an adult or an entire family unit. Should we continue building that story through the year, or should we pick little vignettes to tell the story through. Yeah, I love the idea of continuing the story throughout the year. I, it's not always going to be practical and it won't always work but when it does. I think it can be incredibly powerful. So, let's think about a habitat for humanity that is going to be working with the family on their first home. They've never owned a home before. And their, you know, their kids have struggled because they live in an apartment complex and it's really noisy and they're not getting their homework done. And all of a sudden they're going to, you know, so you can tell that bit of the story and then you can talk about them coming in and working on building that home and how excited the kids are when they get out to the work site. And then you can talk about, you know, a few months later, how that new home has made such a difference. The kids are a lot more rested and they're able to do their homework well and the grades are going up and all of that. And there's some really, just off the top of my head, some really cool stories that you could tell through that entire process that I think would really resonate and impact nicely with both your volunteers and your donors. Yeah, absolutely. And I helped a client write a story. Their mission truly was child welfare, and they do it through the vehicle of pet therapy. And so, if you remember the Bush's Beans commercial, right, where like the dog is talking about the recipe for the Bush beans, right, like, we kind of took a twist on that and we had a dog tell his story, his journey, which we had to make it up for the dog. You know, of, here is the day in the life of, of my, you know, my life and I'm always so excited when I get to see Gabriella, you know, and that was child being impacted because it was so precarious around showing photos of the children telling telling the actual names right and so we switched it and we used the dog as like the story, which was, it was really cool and I have to tell you like, you know, the comments we got back from the recipients of these letters was fantastic and so we're like, what the heck let's try it. I love that so much and I'm thinking about our youngest fostering kittens. And I'm already thinking, alright, I need to go talk to cats cradle and tell them this because they can tell the story from the kittens perspective of, you know, we're scared and a shelter and then this, you know, wonderful, 16 year old picks us up and takes us home and cares for us. Oh, exactly. Oh, it's fantastic. I love that so much. That's a wonderful idea. Yeah, well this has been fantastic, you know, volunteers make up a huge component of our community, right through the connections and all that they provide and so James. Thank you for telling your stories with us here today. For those of you watching and listening James Golder has joined me in conversation he is partnerships manager at Bloomerang and joined us from the road because you're in DC at a conference is that right. You can see the Washington monument from my for my window right here. It's pretty great. Nice view. Oh, I love that. Well this has been fantastic. Every single month we have a representative from Bloomerang on and we're so grateful to have you back with us and I know we'll have you again. I can't wait to get this story about the kittens from your daughter and hear hear about that so thank you for joining us and shining light on how we can engage our volunteers to become donors. And another curveball but do you happen to know how many volunteers there are in our nation right now. Is that a stat that you're aware of. I think I'm doing this from memory so. Okay, sure. We won't hold you to it. No angry letters, but I think I saw fairly recently, something like 770 million, I think people volunteer in a given year. A lot. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, and it's and it's an audience that we shouldn't forget right like and also not not take them lightly because they are so invested they give up their time they give 10 times more as we learned. So thank you James for for bringing this to conversation. Julia missed a riveting conversation but I was here for it it was a page turner and I just, I want more. I wish you and I could sit on this L train with your child and go through more stories. I also want to express my immense gratitude to the entire team at Bloomerang for being a presenting sponsor and to our other presenting sponsors that allow us to continue these episodes marching towards our 900th episode will reach that in October. I know thank you also to American nonprofit Academy, fundraising Academy at National University, nonprofit thought leader, your part time controller, staffing boutique, nonprofit nerd, as well as nonprofit tech talk. Please check out these companies, you just heard from James here from Bloomerang, every single one of these companies comes on and shares with us, you know about what's going on in the sector what they're seeing at conferences and talking with the tons of different, you know, nonprofits around the globe. That's a great impact so today has been fantastic James thank you for spending your time, especially on the road and fitting us into your schedule. As we end every episode and we have for the last. Well, we're in our fourth year. We want to remind all of you to please stay well, so you can do well. Thank you James. Thank you. Thanks. Alright, chat soon.