 I'd like to call to order the meeting of the Arlington Redevelopment Board for September 8, 2014. We have a fairly full agenda tonight. We have three environmental design review hearings. The first one is for the 1098 Mass Ave property. The second one is also for the 1098 Mass Ave property, more in relation to the Verizon telecommunications edition. The third one, I believe, the applicant intends to withdraw. It is for 990 Mass Ave for T-Mobile replacement of antennas. So I don't think we'll be hearing that one today. They're withdrawing based on their intent to get an administrative review under the Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act 2012. We should determine whether anyone is here for that. Yes, if anybody is here for that one. Okay. Do we know for sure that they've withdrawn? They have not formally withdrawn. It's been reported to us that they intend to withdraw to seek administrative review. We're from the building. 990. Yeah, we're off to humanity. I guess it is. 990. The 990 Mass Ave. I guess they didn't tell us. Well, if they haven't formally though, I mean, they haven't told us. That is a little... They're third on the agenda. They're at 8 o'clock. Maybe you want to go and just peek back in? Are they coming? We don't know. We're not sure. They haven't told us whether they're coming or not. Rumor has it that. Rumor has it that. Thank you. Sorry. I apologize about that. Anyone else here for that? For that building? So then the fourth item on the agenda is we're going to discuss closing out an escrow account for the property at 3050 Mill Street. Then we're going to have an update on the central school or some work that's being done there, potentially. We're going to review a sign ordinance that the planning department is proposing, and then we have minutes to approve. So I'd like to now open the Environmental Design Review Special Permit. For our first applicant, Greater Boston Motorsports. And this is mostly to hear a proposed change to parking requirements and tenant occupancy at that site. So if the applicant wants to come up, state your name. I'll stand right here. Introduce yourself. Where are you going to sit? Oh. Your name, your title. My name is Robert Terredo. I'm the owner and operator and manager of Greater Boston Motorsports in Ireland today. And I've been there since its inception in the mid-1970s. It's a family owned and operated facility. And so I thank you for hearing our plea this evening. Okay. Thank you. If you want to walk us through your application. What brought us to this point, and it's a good thing that we're here, is we've had a tenant Verizon who wanted to put an antenna up on the roof. So it brought to light some of the situations on our property. It's been quite some time since this has been reviewed. I'm going to say 10, or let's even say 20 years back then. We had six tenants in the building. We put the building up two levels way back when in 79, 80, 81, in order to stay alive in business. It was a tumultuous time. I remember even being next to my dad getting those very expensive loans at 18 to 21 percent or in the Carter administration. My rack actually went through a rehab at that time. But we did it in order to create rental income so we could stay alive in business. So that was the purpose. So we had tenants in the building for almost 20 years, about six tenants at one point. And so we went through the process of having a certain amount of parking available for those tenants. And that is the last known record on file with the town of Arlington. So what we're here tonight to do is update. And the building in the last 20 years, we've slowly, the tenants are no longer there. Actually, indeed, we only have one tenant at the very top floor of the building. It's a karate studio, two young women run the studio right now. And there's no, they don't have any assigned parking. The parking that was assigned was for the lower buildings. So what has happened there in the last 10 to even 20 years is we've now occupied the total building. Downstairs is our motorcycle show, and upstairs is a pro shop. So it's all one tenant that its owner occupied completely by us. And because of that, we're not in need of all that parking because we no longer have tenants. And we sat with Michael and did, we estimated the square footage of the building and so forth when we came up with a proposal, which I submitted, which was, I don't even have the old proposal of all that parking, but the new proposal that we put together, as Michael and I and Michael actually did his calculations, we came up with a 13 proposed parking spots which I submitted to the town. Those are clearly marked for the parking that we would need for 1098 Mass Ave. There is another tenant in there that it was an existing facility which we own and operate as well, which is the Allen's Entire Company. So that is the same parking, it's never changed in years. So including Allen's Entire and the GBM main showroom, which is owner occupied, Michael calculated that 13 would be the lucky number for us for parking. So I clearly marked where those 13 spots would be. Oh, I'm sorry, I scratched that. The number that we came up with was 10. I'm sorry, 10, and I clearly designated each of those spots. Just to add a little, just in summary, over the last 20 years, I've been personally involved with some general management. I'm at the facility every single week. I'm not there every single day. We do have some wonderful general management that have been with me 20 years plus in each department, so they run the day-to-day operations there. But in that 20 years time, we've done a vast amount of improvement on the property inside and out. Most recently, we added a couple of flower pots that was with the town to the front entrance. Those are well-maintained and groomed all the time. They look nice, they look nice when you see it. This is just a small little semi-green area as you go into the front lobby area. These shrubs are maintained every single year, and that's always been there for the 30 years. There's a little green area here, and I wanted to clarify for the town, this back area, 20 years ago when there was parking assigned everywhere, the slope and the soil and the trees lent itself to do some beautification back there at some level. But the soil is not good, and these trees have now grown to a point where it's so dark nothing would really grow there. So I wanted to amend this evening that that's not a green area, that is a soiled buffer area. It's just, and I wouldn't even call it soil, but we'll call it a hard soiled buffer area. So that's a, I threw that green in, inadvertently, so that should really be adjusted and amended. That's just a buffer soiled area. So we're here to reassess the new current use of the building, which is a single tenant me, us as a single operator. The Karate studio, which is just a two girls running a Karate studio, not a parking situation in the Arlington Tire situation, which has never changed. The other thing, and I put some notes here for the board, just to reference them briefly and conclude, is that the current special permits that were issued 10 to 20 to even 30 years ago, if we go back to the originals, reflect the time when the property housed several tenants. Now it's 90% only occupied by us. We're a power sports dealership. It's not just motorcycles anymore. Power sports is everything from ponder generators to mopeds to scooters, to very green things that really come around in the industry. We're seeing back in the day, Boston residents with 3% two-wheeled vehicles. We're cresting onto 7% and we're thinking that, you know, 10% of the Boston area is going to be on some kind of a two-wheeled motorized vehicle, and even more so. They're quiet. We're in good cooperation as far as I know. Every single one of our neighbors, we try to cooperate fully. We've had some what we call peak season issues, and I referenced that here, that we're a very seasonal business. We're really peaking for about 90 days, so we have an influx of consumers coming in. So we do get very busy, and so we're aware of that, and we're going to take extra care to make sure that we comply with our neighbors, number one, but in the Mass Ave and all that comes with that. Luckily, it's not a 12-month year. If it was, it would be a little more even-keeled, but we have this spike in our business. We've owned and operated the property for 35 years, and I'm proud to say that, you know, it's a family-run business, and we'd like to maintain it and cooperate with the town anyway we can. We love being in Allenton. I'm an Allenton guy. We graduated Allenton Catholic 78, so this is my hometown. So that's it. Thank you for walking us through that. I think I'd like to turn to the board now for any questions that you may have, and then we can go through maybe point-by-point the EDR and come up with any conditions that we can do. So if you want to start? You know, if I could just borrow a pen. Is that okay? Yes. Sure. Thank you so much. Mr. Siradolo? Yes. I'm sorry, I apologize. You mentioned that the only other tenant at the property is the karate studio. In the course of hearing the presentation for the wireless facility, some of the public comment also indicated there's a music studio. Oh, and that's my brother-in-law. It's my sister's husband. He goes in evenings from, he has met with the board. He goes in evenings 8 to 10, and it's completely soundproof. He's been told and warned, I guess once I'll say told and warned, that he can play and teach his music lessons up until 10 p.m. We were even going to ask the board to go back to 9, but it's not possible. He works as a school teacher, and that's when he teaches. He's not a paid tenant. He's a guest. He's a family member. And we've taken down these signs because he's staying at private, and he occupies a room about the size of this actually to teach music. So it's not an official tenant. And where, what room is he in? Okay. So when you take the elevator to the top floor and you come out into the main lobby where you go into our pro shop, there's a hallway. You just walk down the hallway, pass the restroom to the right, and there's an area this big, approximately. But it's not in the pro shop? It's not in the pro shop. It's in the back there? It's actually in the middle. It's in the middle. It's not always in the back. The back is a stairwell. And so we sit between the stairwell and our pro shop. Okay. So if you go back to some of the original special permits, the original parking scheme contemplated that the pavement between the two main buildings would be the side of parking. It would have been. It should have been if we had used it appropriately for our tenants, but it was never, I've never lent itself to that. So it's never been? Back in the early days it was when we originally put the tenants in. Yeah, we had parking in there. But as it's grown in the part, and the tenants have drifted out by attrition, I suppose, because we didn't have a use for parking for tenants, we started to take over the spot. We keep the front half of it very, very clean and neat. And we're actually thinking of Sunday in the future, asking the board that this isn't in the future to put a good-looking gate there so the front is beautified and the back has some security, but that's not for tonight. We do occupy about half of that back, and we put two rows of motorcycles. Basically motorcycle parking is what it is. And those are for our guests and our clients who come in for service work, generally. So are they available for your business invitees or they display? They're both. We have both. We have some used motorcycles that we push out for display, and those are our service bikes that are being dropped off and picked up. So it is both, yeah. It's not just guests, not just custom-fired. We actually use that space to display, use motorcycles that are for sale. Now, on the schematic that you gave submitted to the board, are these 10 parking spaces all for customer use? All for customer use. Do employees sometimes use one or two throughout the day, those nine and 10 spots? Yeah. Just because they're available, we just, again, out of attrition that we've had. And those employees come and go from those spots that they're not tied up all day. But the other spots are 100% employee, I'm sorry, 100% customers who are coming in. We need them to be. Just from observation time to time, it looks like the spaces that are shown as one and two are sometimes occupied by a plow or other service vehicle. Yeah, that's Nicky Cerendolo, again, a cousin of mine. That was a work vehicle for Allenton Tire. It's one of their vehicles. It's not always there. I think in the wintertime sometimes there's a plow. Yeah, it's there a lot, let me say that. Excuse me? It's there today. Is he selling it? He's sometimes... I don't know. Here I am asking you, if the board wants that out of there, that'll be out of there. Well, I guess the point of my question is, is this going to be obvious to customers that this is a place for visitor parking? That particular spot is a tenuous one. What I'd like to do something, and I didn't go into this tonight, is at some point that's going to become like, and I don't want to open up this can of worms, but I will, is that we don't have very many handicapped people in this. We're not under any handicapped real constriction here, but I want that to be for our special needs clients, which we do have a company, and we make that available to them now. That's not a spot. You're right. Allenton Tire has used that more for them than for our consumers. No question. But I can easily have that not be the case. Some like signage, for example, actually I've marked something that just recently did a couple of months ago. I took down all the my salon signs and the tenant signs and the, and I put Allenton Tire and Greater Boston all as both signs. So I will make that customer parking only, which is what I want. With the canopy tent storage, can you describe what that structure looks like? That is a aircraft quality structure designed in Florida. It came from a Chevrolet operation. It has a 30-year lifetime guarantee, a 30-year guarantee on the structure, and it's about 20 years old that we've maintained it professionally with some nautical people. So that is a structure that keeps some of the overflow storage bikes sound and secure, number one. Number two, I was going to clean the tent a lot, but I've let it pertain to the leaves and so forth. I've kept it so that it almost looks camouflaged. And we did that for our, as I said, another buffer for all of our neighbors in the back. One, they can't see anything now. If it was a big tent, which would be nice, by the way, they would be happy with that. But now it's a buffer both for visual and for sound. Can they see the structure? Not very years. You can see the structure, but it's camouflaged. So as they look out and over to it, it blends with the rest of the area. How long has the structure been there? Probably just a couple of few years. And I don't recall any... It's like before the board to allow the structure. It was done with, well, we, I don't know if it was done officially or unofficially, but at the time, in order to comply and keep neighbors happy and sound and secure and have a buffer there and protect some of the merchandise, that was installed through a professional tent company and was done legitimately. By permit or not? I believe, I don't know, to be honest with you. That was done about a year or so before. I'd have to check on that. So I'm not 100% sure. I think we did it with the Townsend Commission because we had got some notice from a couple of neighbors, nothing major, because it was getting, we've grown. That's part of the issue. And this was part of the helping us absorb some of that growth. It did a nice job protecting the merchandise, buffering the neighbors and visibility. I don't know if it was done permanently or not. So I'd have to check on that. Thank you. Yeah, actually Bruce covered a couple of the things that I look at, but I am a little bit confused because it's, so on the application on the second page, it talks about minimum or maximum required by zoning for proposed use, and it says minimum 13, and it says proposed conditions is 10. Proposed 10. So Mike, you're a three short of the required. In the reason we're here, Mike did some calculations with me as we looked over the site, and that's what I'm here to, that's why I'm here this evening. I'm here for the special permitting based on single occupancy, based on the fact that we don't need it for our customers, because they're, I'm going to say, 80% motorcycles. We have this entire facilities always had this amount. So we're here tonight to actually request from that 13 minimum doing the math to our proposed conditions, which is 10, it's three left, and that's why I'm here this evening. Yeah, and I guess my concern with the proposal is exactly what Bruce pointed out, which is the plow here, a motorcycle there, that is one of your clients. But regardless, I'm afraid it might be one of yours, and then you say that 8 and 9 or 9 and 10 are also often used by your employees. Being honest with you, they are, and this evening, I will tell you that, after we leave here this evening, those would be freed up for customers 100%, and so will those. Well, but the point is on the 9 and the 10, on that one, then they're just going to be parking in the street. So I think it just lends itself to another issue. Well, the employees already do park, as we've always done, they claim their stakes in the morning wherever they can park legitimately in the street. And so these are vehicles that are kind of in and out, and they're not always there, so I wouldn't say they're in the street. We can 100% free them up, but the problem is, is the whole purpose of the bylaw with respect to how many is the minimum, is to try to relieve street parking and that type of thing due to employee and customer parking. But everything we've talked about tonight makes it sound like 10 might not be enough for both employee and customer parking, because now you've stated that, these two are sometimes used for this, and these two, so now we're down to six, and it just becomes more and more difficult. I would not be sitting here this evening if 10 wasn't enough. We have, and I'm being quite honest with you, just the course of business, some of these have been used by us. I'm not going to deny that at all. However, we can very easily, 10, I don't want to say it's more than enough, but it is absolutely sufficient for what we need for our consumers the vehicle that's there for employee and these other ones are in and out. I'm going to say they're not going to affect the neighborhood either. We're going to free up 10 legitimate spots for our single occupancy use. So this is the third or maybe it's even the fourth I've lost track and I should have kept track, but time that we've talked about this, not this application itself, but the building in the past two or three months and every single time parking has been both the biggest issue, that and frankly the music. So from my perspective, it's not the type of thing that, well I guess I'll put it differently. I guess I'm surprised that there's not a more proactive plan than well we'll just have a park in the street because it seems to me that the volume of parking is what it is. You haven't expanded the parking within the plan. All you've done is just said, okay, this time we mean it, we're only going to do this thing. And I just don't see where the relief is coming from the neighborhood with respect to parking all around. The three vehicles that we're talking about, the truck will be removed completely and it won't be there at all. The other two will be, those are in and out employees that are floating managers that I can have, they're not regular employees. So the difference is that I will remove that vehicle so that's 100% available and those vehicles are not... Yeah, I guess once again I come back to, this isn't really different. It's just you've got kind of a different... Single occupancy, I didn't need, well we don't need with a single occupancy just because it's our motorcycle shop now and the karate studios. All of us, I know the last few times and I wasn't here for those last few meetings, but parking is being addressed, I think mainly because of what I call the older situation at our building, our new up-to-date current situation is that we have a motorcycle dealership where 80% of our clients are on motorcycles. The reason why things haven't changed too, too much and the good news I think is that we don't have tenants and people coming in and out in automobiles. We just have the same out-of-the-tire situation that's been there forever even before we owned it which has been always sufficient for the out-of-the-tire use. A couple of spots that I've added for our GBM customers it was really as a courtesy. And the biggie is that we don't have tenants. We are just a single motorcycle shop now. So that's why that area hasn't changed too much. I'll end with this. The couple of vehicles that I'm being quite honest as to what we use for our, say my cousin Nicky who runs out in the tire, that truck is gone tomorrow morning and the other two will be available and it won't impact the neighborhood. We'll make those 10 consumer clearly more because of the parking, which will be a big improvement for us because of our new situation. Okay. So, and then I moved this both the structure in the back as well as is that part done aside? Yeah, that's a little point. It's this little pad it is, it's a display pad. Same as what I've done if you look at this drawing and is that it is one or is that part of the plan? It's a, I can quickly explain it to you. See this little green there coming into the lobby. We used to have a bicycle shop up here if you recall way back it was called Life Sports. We have a pad here for bicycles. That's a pad. It's just a, it's like a display pad but back then I used to have bicycles parked there. This is where it looks like stairs. It's stairs walking in but to the left there used to be a bike rack next to a couple of little green and it marked it slightly green. It's a little pad anyway. I'm trying to describe the fact that if you can envision a pad where you'd have a bicycle rack and you know, park bicycles in front of that plan through where you see that ATV, it's an alternating vehicle there's a pad there. So in the morning because it lends itself to a display it's an eye-catcher. Kind of like Myrack used to put his ATVs out of the lawn when he had them. We don't have a lawn so we use that pad to display only. But it's on the sidewalk, right? No, no it's not. If it is there. The vehicle appears to be on the sidewalk. It's half, in this one that's our pad and there's maybe six inches of it over onto the sidewalk and it's a particular shot. Again, if that's not we usually have a scooter there by the way. Yeah, today there was a yellow scooter that was in the sidewalk. That's usually what we put out there. That was in the sidewalk. That should never be in the sidewalk. Well, it was in this position but it was overhanging into the sidewalk. That's not appropriate. It's like a little pad at the area that didn't be on the sidewalk. And then I guess I'll just point out from observations so with respect to the structure I mean I'll just give you my feelings on it and maybe it's proper, maybe it isn't but I think my wife would kill me if I had one of these in the backyard. She would but your neighbors would like that. No, I think they'd kill me as well. I said from that perspective I mean you've got kind of a bathroom curtain right there and it looks like the equivalent of it and then this is all I would almost wonder whether that's a little bit moldy. So I mean it looks like black mold I don't know what it is. It's patina. I think I'd want to do a biology check on the patina there because that's you know copper it has a nice patina that goes to greens this is probably going to black. It's from the leaves that are going on it. We used to clean it but because I noticed that it's less noticeable from their perspective we kept it. I guess I'd also want to know that that was primitive because it is a structure, it is a mass-hab and it is subject to all the EDR stuff with respect to it so I think I think Carol can add to that. I just shouldn't put on the board and Mr. Sarandolo I've done a thorough search of the files I found no mention of the canopy it doesn't mean it wasn't presented but I do have quite a bit of material in this box for these 30 years of herding and I have not come across it. I did look so that's helpful. And I think I want to point out I think it's a great business for Arlington it's great business for mass-habs and I want you to thrive and I'm glad that you are. It's dense right now and frankly it's I give you my own impression as I go by I live up behind there it's just a little bit unwieldy among other things and I don't live very close but as you go by there's a lot going on and we do have the different special permits so that's kind of my take on it. I could speak to one thing some of this Michael and I have had conversations about our future plans there number one putting the pro-shop upstairs has given us some growth we of course purchased the 1092 mass-hab old Armour Cleaners building which we've renovated into actually going to another renovation of BMW it's going to be a very beautiful state of the art BMW building but that's a separate situation it's not going to give us more space. The good news and more good news is that the Arlington Tire operation is a tenant I won't say a tenant at will but he has a lease and then come January we're hoping this is the good news that we're expecting him not to renew his lease if that happens what I have is the whole entire building that you see there which will alleviate a lot of what I'll call that European chaos that you see going on what's happened is that 22% of the motorcycle businesses in New England have gone out of business for a lot of reasons we're not I wouldn't say thriving we're a small business even though we're taking on a lot we have a lot of employees a lot overhead is a lot we love what we do luckily we've been in business long after we do a very good job at it so the good news the reason why you're seeing it a little unlearly yes we've grown we've grown but we do need more space so two things can happen one I could thin that hurt a little bit which I don't really want to do because it's basically like that for 90 days if you go back even next month you're going to see a much different GVM much but the future is that we're looking to hope and I'll keep the board abreast of all of this to move into beyond the time space I don't expect to make that a retail space I just need raw storage space is what I need so that will alleviate my in season of all the chaos that's the hope yeah I mean I guess I'd feel more comfortable put it that way if you had certainty on that and that what you were telling me is that whatever's going on in the patina canvas area was going to move over here that would certainly make me feel better about the whole situation sitting here this evening I don't want to say January 1st he's going to leave but what I'm going to tell the board is honestly it's like handed over 99% sure I don't want to promise you something that I can't tell you the timing isn't quite right you know I don't want to step my thoughts there I will inform the board Carol and Michael and yourself as soon as I know which will be in the next couple of months and again let me say this to Michael what you're looking at there I mean even now as we're speaking I'm starting to switch gears there will be 30 maybe I must say about 30% less display merchandising and this is going to be about 70% less service it's going to go back to a very clean facility so let me ask this question then maybe this is where I'm not quite connecting the dots if the herd does get pinned for all but the three or four months why is the canvas necessary because one would think that you know during the nice weather is when you would really have to use that and you could move everything out say two things one it's necessary because of the unbelievable amount of influx that we have so we need a nice corral area to keep everything packaged so that it would be neater if it didn't have that it would look worse and it would be less buffered and it would be a little bit more trusive to some of the neighbors as ugly as that thing is it's better looking than a lot of motorcycles in a backyard but I can also say this with some certainty I'm not going to really need that tent and I'm shooting myself on the footage because I would really love having it there just for that extra breathing space to get Allington Tire I really don't want that tent there either Michael it's not aesthetically pleasing and I'm with you on that but it's a necessity well look that's a functional thing not a bad thing right now so if I do get Allington Tire I don't really want the tent even though I want it but if I had to sacrifice that I would if it makes the board happen keep it neater I would much rather have a much neater cleaner much more healing area providing that Allington Tire space I would assist me a lot the other thing that assisted me is when the economy would get again 3-4 years ago I wouldn't be sitting here we're not looking for that I'll tell you I didn't need that I put the tent in because the economy rebounded motorcycle stores went out of business all over New England all of a sudden I'm in flux with extra business and extra employees I got a little weight and it's not as lucrative we did okay we're growing but we're not it's small incremental growth so you're looking at the result of a little uptick in the economy is what happened to me I survived the fall if you will of the economy and we picked up some extra clients who had no orphans they needed a place to go to have their service done I'm sorry we'll have to participate in the House sorry the board's going to go around and ask questions first then we're going to open it up I guess I have two issues that Kevin mentioned already one is the consistent use of NASA as display space the parking space alongside NASA absolutely addressed it's not happening since my conversation with Officer Corey it's never happening for our own motorcycles being displayed for sale what we were doing we would stage a couple of our clients motorcycles coming down in an hour to pick up their bikes so we'd have them ready for them registered and steward motorcycles I've driven by there every day for however many years I've seen motorcycles there I've seen jet skis there I've seen on-hitch trailers I've seen two motorcycles on-mass today at 3.15 dropping them dropping off vehicles parked not more than an hour definitely not more than an hour on-hitch trailer seems like it would be there longer than an hour on-hitch trailer loaded with jet skis I saw a few times over the summer yeah I'm not going to deny that if it happened absolutely again 30 to 60 day window with the jet ski situation again a conversation for another day but one of the things not for today is one of our proposals in the future once we get settled was to put a proposed a loading zone area out front but that's not for this board and it's a separate situation what we will be doing though and I can say very honestly about this once on entire well two things actually once the entire operation moves and I have that spot there's my loading area second we have a new service manager who just started Nils he's a 20 year veteran he's our old service manager wonderful man we are going to make an official loading area here in the driveway the guys are just doing that for convenience quick in and out it's never more than an hour I can't say that anyone in this room I know I will say there's never anything out there more than an hour I'd like to know about it but it could take upwards of 30 minutes to an hour to load and I load a vehicle for customers that could also be customers of ours sometimes do this they drop them off I've seen it at times where it's pretty obvious that the guys that are working there are showing off the bikes that are parked on Mass Ave showing them on looks like they're there for sale display not only on Mass Ave itself but on the sidewalk as well Michael brought up with the ATV scooter out on the sidewalk it looks like they're taking up a lot more space than they need to be and I hate to mention but Boston Motor Sports was on the door what's that? Boston Motor Sports was written on the door of both of the vehicles that had trailers on them today so those are our transportation yeah those are our trucks one of the other things that some residents of the area have brought up to us is employee parking, customer parking clogging up Quincy Street parking driveways there's a middle school up there now you can get difficult for kids in the morning for buses to get by and buses can't get by if parking is going away here and we're still three spaces less than required this is approved but where do those people go? they're still blocking the street there one of the things I can do to instantly cure this is have all my employees gone parked there there's about half a dozen and we can find another place that's even much more so where do they park now? you know they are probably parking right around that facility they claim their steak in the morning usually the one that's parallel is that you guys? yeah okay and I guess finally we touched on this a little bit but we've had a lot of complaints about the noise coming out of the music studio and I know you said it's changed it's a teacher in there how long has he been in there? well we've heard I don't know what soundproofing situation is there but some of the buyers have mentioned to us that it sounds like there's a full band rehearsing in there and I know how loud that can be that's going to really disturb the neighbors quite a bit do you know what the soundproofing situation is? yeah there was all professional soundproofing not a soundproofer but they put all that thick styrofoam soundproofing on the inside did you mind your back? well you know I'm going to say to the neighbors they're here if that's an issue he's got a lower participation I'm not overly dependent it's a family relative from my own personal experience I know the difference between less in volume which isn't going to disturb anybody they've made practice in there as well I'm not 100% sure it's mostly lessons from what I understood but if he's practicing in there and if it's a problem to the neighbors I guess one thing I would suggest is that there's a one final warning and then if you're not happy he's gone and instantly I don't want that to be an issue for anyone certainly the neighbors don't want it I think it's been an ongoing issue the residents tell us how is it weekly monthly? once a month Monday nights Monday nights can you go to bed before kind of flight because I can feel the bass in my bedroom floor so Monday nights he's not there anymore it is just the Monday night the other ones just do quiet lessons but no band that's totally understood I want no warning on that one I'll strike on these throwing that that's it for me so I'll try to make it quick because most of the points have been covered so what you got in there is you got karate and you got your big business in two films yes and you got Tata very slowly, not that active yes those three are now to 10 13 spaces because we have one home actually I'm going to tie it to who owns the residency we own the facility but okay the way we calculated Mike and I calculated that the building itself is just the second floor first floor the karate studio they never had parking they don't use parking they just drop off and pick up that spot up there was always just one big open spot for the last 10 years they may have been required but they don't have separate offices when we built that structure it was required that we had whatever it was 31 parking spots because there was a different amount of offices but doesn't karate require a spot or two as far as I know and we didn't see any wreckage of a spot I don't know if top of my head I can check the bylaw I have it here they don't have it as a tenant they would never assigned any parking and they never needed any parking so I'd like to know what they require and how many do you require for three years for the bylaws of the jail when Mike did his calculations and he said we're offering this piece of paper he did his calculations here and he came up I don't have, you know I can't read all of this he did the overall and what he actually calculated he actually put this in that's Mike? he put the 13 after he looked at each and he calculated based on the square footage the amount that we would be sufficient 21 presidents that's what it was that's what it is that's what it's supposed to be but it never was except for maybe those first early years and how many does Arlington tie in how many does Arlington tie in need as per the bylaw I think it's both building C, it's 10, 90 and 11 number C right here so it's 10, 90, 11, 100 the present condition is 21 the required for all of the tenants piling it all together just doing it as a square footage so it's 13 by the bylaw 13 by the bylaw 21 by the special permit and just to alleviate any confusion the number of 10 that's being bounced around is in reference to is able to reduce 13 to 10 by using 8.12a item 11 we can make a 20% reduction if we see that it is so warranted that was our thank you for reminding me of that let me just reiterate or just emphasize points the buffer area the area that's got the stuff parked in it with the brick patio yes you got to get stuff out of it you got to maintain that I mean this front area absolutely there has to be a way that you I like your idea of the gates of some little even if it's decorative that establishes a sidewalk line I didn't want to be so aggressive to put a gate here but I would love to to be honest I was going to put a half way to keep this all clean and clear maybe so but the point is because it's going to be half in and half out no matter what you got to find a way to actually make that function because if you have a little 5 foot zone you're going to end up parking wider vehicles in there you've got to figure out that you just got to prohibit it so that people on the inside so you don't have that spill that has to be a condition you can design it better or you can just one we can just put it as a condition and legislated two I would request that I might with the board's permission come back and provide a nice gate there that way it can't happen for the little sides that then the next one is marked so you said in the big lot that used to be where all the spots were you have motorcycle display you have service people coming in and blocking them off and then you have motorcycle parking people coming that are generally most of our motorcycle clients that are in or out will park right in front they park in front well there's parking in front parking places for the town those aren't your spots so what I'm saying is would you be willing to provide if you're coming by motorcycle to visit you could you provide motorcycle spots that are designated inside the lot yes if you're creating a zone above or something at least get those out there and then you won't ever have them parking those spots which will make these automobile spots maybe if you park here if you provide motorcycle special motorcycle parking right inside the lot another thing I was going to do in the future but one of the other proposals and again I don't want to go on here but we also had being very proactive in Boston and European like having motorcycle parking since we have such a but I'm talking about rather than automobile because in Europe you'll see designated motorcycle parking isn't that outside of this it is that's outside of this that's not for this meeting so that's another situation but to answer your question I can easily provide some relief so buffer and maintaining or what I'm saying is maintaining that line motorcycle parking you actually advertise I would actually paint it so they'll very clearly say customers motorcycle parking then your bike pad area that used to be a bike pad and that's about to come out of that I'm using a reference there there's a small pad area over there that's still open or someplace that you put bicycle parking believe it or not you're required to because it's a part of your oh no kidding that's why we put it there it's still there so I would establish that yep the bike pad yep and then again what Bruce said or someone said about getting that plow out of there that will be out in the morning your idea of providing not having customer employee parking if there's a way to do it and I don't know if that turns out to be parking in the neighborhood which is just as bad because then their spots are all crammed up I don't know that's always an issue you come to a business and suddenly there are three trucks right in the middle and you just don't go there it's for your own good yep I don't know how you do that you'd have to designate in public parking zones for them to have to walk from a public parking zone right that's what I would do we do it in some of those I don't know if we can make that a condition that you can endeavor to just I don't need to interrupt you but how many of your employees commute by motorcycle maybe a little more than that and we have about six to eight in season maybe ten that might be in an automobile but off season it's down to six again so it's not we don't have many driving no they're probably in and around the neighborhood well Andy continue on what he was saying well I'd like some help on that because I know we've talked about this before you know obviously we're coming here from the public too but you know and I'm all about finding a solution and you know the history candidly has not been very good but I'm trying to say positive think about how this could work reducing from thirteen to ten is a power that the board has within our discretion usually that's coupled with seeing some form of mitigation from the property owner that makes us feel like oh this is appropriate to give that reduction but we're not obligated to go to ten we could hold you to thirteen indeed the mitigation just to jump in is that we're just a motorcycle shop now we don't have all that out of need but go ahead so thinking on those lines but some portion of this apron area between the two buildings the front half I would suppose and designate those as parking spaces you could get to thirteen and those could be designated as motorcycle parking spaces for your motorcycle driving customers and staff but I think it would have to be clear that it's not a display area or a service area I think that's something that along the lines of what Andy was suggesting and then you know perhaps the gate idea might designate where the visitor parking is and where the display and service area is I agree I like the idea it would help all of us so that's a good way to go about that and then the Barlington Tire dumpster I would like to see you screen that it's screened right now it has a fence it's maybe a little it's updating I have some pictures it is screened but I believe there may be some updating we could make it a green fence or lattice work or something that works that's 1991 animal and it shouldn't I cannot beautify that or freshen it up that's then the music what we talked about which I think that's a great idea that it's got to be lessons it's got to be turned out something's happening in there but that has to be somehow written in so that we can monitor that so that if it happens again it doesn't happen again we have a volunteer monitor they're not responsible for monitoring they're not I'm kidding I say that but that will end so those are easy the two big things the patina the elephant in the room is the is the non permitted tent that one we need to have a permit on that you need to come in and propose a structure there if we haven't and it wasn't done officially because I know it was done unofficially there was a little bit of a request as we grew and to keep it contained but we can number one apply if we haven't move it that need be immediately I'd rather have us have a little time to move it January 1st or 2nd what would you do with that site it's a part of your site I would have it just a nice little structure those are my clients motorcycles that's what it is we work I'm just wondering if you could build something there that's flat and lower than the fence or maybe it's low enough that it's not disturbing it's sticking up where you can see it from behind you used to be parking quite a bit of parking 10 spaces in those days which was never officially used is that used solely for storage or is there work that's done in there it's both, it's a little bit of both mostly work and then some full of storage that should be we keep it immediately that should be permitted or you should remove it so we will do one or the other, absolutely if it's not already permitted if it's not on fire we will apply but I'll say temporarily because I'd like to remove it some day I'd rather go inside of the entire building that's giving me enough space can you say January 1st or 2nd if you're going to use it for storage some sort of rehabilitation in there to make it suitable for storage I'll say that I'll know by that time I can have that gut if it's done within the month is that your option or theirs it would be their option if they do not really know their option I'm going to know so they have an option they are required to renew their lease I have an option to if they want to break their lease I'm going to allow them to break their lease and renew it once every five years and it's coming up this January and the entire store is getting to a point where they're doing less than half of the business I'm going to say 40 to 30% of the business they were it's very low and slow in there right now so Christine I'm just going to come back to that maybe how you would implement as a condition the fact that we need it's incomplete special permit without the tent and the signage right now the the tent appears to be in violation of setbacks we looked at the setback the rear setback should be 10 feet plus the length of the structure divided by 10 which makes it just guessing and based on that length being 92 feet on past plans with 15 foot 7.5 foot on each side looking at an 18 foot rear setback you know just looking at the scale of that it doesn't look like you have even the 10th foot maybe it's about 10 probably there's a pretty wide popper there so it's about 10 but it appears that it should be more like 18 that's why we need a proposal for that that we can either look at it so that and the signage if it's going to remain it needs to be permanent that's a question we can permit it unless we wait the setbacks I don't know the board is empowered to wait the setbacks aha that's maybe to come back to that and the same thing with the parking I think we should also see if we visit because we had that installed we had it professionally Don I thought that we went in front of the board but I thought we had permission to do that if we didn't we will apply it needs to be an application or I think you will probably end up removing it because I don't think you could squeeze it in there and it seems to be a good location for some additional parking if we need it I'm also concerned about parking space number 10 and parking space number 2 right now parking space number 10 exists but it's right against the sidewalk 9 and 10 have always been there no 9 and 10 I don't know if they've always been there too large you know on your original plan I don't know what year this is this is the plan that came through with the Verizon application which we're going to hear next you had one bicycle rack here instead of two parking spaces you had two spaces here instead of three so I'm not sure how you're going to fit a third one in unless you've already expanded this planter you had two spaces here right now you're using three actually you have a piece of equipment sitting here you have a storage like U-Haul type storage container here and you have one space of even though both have signs that therefore customers only those two spots have always been there if there's another U-Haul there that shouldn't be technically just being used as such technically you would need a five foot setback you would need 10 foot on the front unless you have a wall and you can go down to five foot from what I was reading the ordinance on the side you would need five foot now these were previously approved on previous permits this one maybe is already a pre-existing situation but this plan only shows two here it's always had three from my original drawings that's the first time I've seen two like that I think we all share that hope because if you didn't have the tent I don't know if it's possible to put that dumpster back here and then open up two more spots you know we could they could fit they could fit in here get rid of these entirely get rid of these those are very useful I know I'm saying put them right here look at that dumpster over here look at that dumpster right next to the my other observation you're not using your curb cut where you're proposing to put the gate where you have all your motorcycles and moving the buildings you have a wide curb cut there because that used to be a driveway where you had parallel parking coming if that curb cut is no longer necessary it may be that it could disappear an on-street parking could rear so are we talking about putting motorcycles in the front of that there's motorcycles going in there we're trying to keep access there for motorcycles to go in and out and they have service vehicles that go in there what's happening is you're using the backlit always for your own yes that hasn't changed at least so far well maybe let's hear from some of our betters now we could just maybe go in order if that's okay with everybody what I'd like you to do is before you ask your comment I want you to be addressing the board not the applicant and state your name and your address for the minutes for the minutes you can sit my name is Brenda Hibbard H-I-B-B-A-R-G I live at 17 Higgin Street and I do a butt directly for the Boston Motor Sports some of the the music has been addressed thank you very much in addition to parking there are tires in the back that a butt a more fence throw a match out there there you go parking on the street it's an issue because they park on Higgin Street not necessarily one behind the other sometimes it's side by side people don't always use their brains when they park across from each other because you can barely fit a car down the street first I want to say most of the people that work at great Boston Motor Sports are good people it's not them that we have issues with we appreciate the fact that they come around and they clear the sidewalks that's very good but if the parking is a huge thing and the tires in a sort of general disregard it seems for the neighbors I understand the whole tent thing wanting to protect your merchandise I get it motorcycles are loud no matter what you do we're used to the noise during the day debt is what it is but sometimes later in the evening it gets a little bit annoying I'm sure my coveneers have things to say too just more okay Mike has a good point are people here for the next hearing that was supposed to start at 7.30 since we're running so far over well the applicant the applicant is here are you okay with no no no I'm sorry for the T-Mobile oh for the T-Mobile that was going to intended to withdraw so I'm sorry yeah we haven't seen T-Mobile no it looks like they're not here so it looks like they are withdrawing I can give you a call to let you know what I was talking about I meant to do it before you started to talk about it I just wanted to support people that we really want to hear from you okay Nancy Savioli I live at 24 Higgins Street I've lived here for 37 years and the packing has become an increasing problem year after year both from the greater Boston Motor Sports and the tire people they pack on Quincy Street they pack on Higgins Street they pack on Robbins Road it's the upper morning to night a greater Boston Motor Sports employee packed in front of my neighbor's house left his car there for a week unattended just left it like it was a parking lot the fact is of course it's irritating paying the taxes we do and not being able to pack in front of your own house but it's a safety issue my neighbor next door's father was bedridden for six years and on several occasions the emergency vehicles could not get down the street because of the packing now as Brenda said when people pack their cars they just get out and walk away they don't look at the other side and the fact that there's not a lot of room the motorcycle shop gives customer their motorcycle back and they test drive it on Higgins Street when someone leaves the shop they go up Quincy Street as fast as they can it's very loud it's you know we've had babies that you know have sleep disrupted because of the noise they do do the sidewalk around Brenda's block but not mine and I don't care I have my snow blower and it's fine that's not why I'm saying it's okay and as I said sometimes you know kids will work at the Boston Motor Sports in the tire place leave their vehicle go off with their friends and they'll drop them off at 10 or 11 o'clock at night to pick up their vehicle it's like a packing lot it's not your customer your employees we never get a break a long mass ad there are signs, 2 hours limit that's it, we don't get a break the only break we get are on Sundays when your business is closed but the safety concern really is an issue hi my name is Norman Magnusson I live at 12 Higgins Street last name is MAG that are residents there and a property owner for 30 years and with the increase in size of Greater Boston Motor Sports along with Nancy and Brenda talking about the parking not only the employees vehicles but the Greater Boston Motor Sports trucks with the trailers attached to them sometimes the trailers without being attached to the vehicles parked on Higgins Street loading of the trailers with motorcycles on Higgins Street and there have been several times I have had to call the police because I don't feel the emergency vehicle can fit on Higgins Street which is a fact they also park on the corners especially on Higgins and Quincy Street they'll pull the trailer and the truck right on the corner of the street which along with the people from Jimmy's that park there I don't think sometimes an emergency vehicle or a plow in the wintertime can get up Quincy Street many times the other issue that I have in the proposed parking area is the repair of the motorcycles and the revving up of the motorcycles it's definitely much louder than the general noise in the neighborhood which is considered disturbing the peace I understand that it needs to be done but the revving of the motorcycles is constant sometimes constant and my final thing is the test driving of the motorcycles up Quincy Street and I'm sorry up Robbins Road you can hear them all the way to the top of Robbins Road and obviously way over the street when I think I've covered just about everything on top so my name is Diane Magnusson I live in 12 Hicken Street I've actually lived in that house for over 50 years I grew up in it so I know that neighborhood I know what was there before Boston Motorsports was there to what my husband said around the noise level has definitely increased the revving of the motorcycles the test driving and the racing up and it's those scooters different types of motorcycles but usually it's the ones where they're hunched over they race up Robbins Road which is a steep hill all the way up to Gray Street and you can hear it all the way up to Gray Street they race through our street on many occasions without helmets they test drive up and down our street without helmets the truck there's two trucks that have trailers one of them is gray and white or white and red but life of the street about 7 o'clock at night I'm assuming it's when Motorsports is closed and when they're just closed and whoever it is they come racing down that street they have can't be proven but the assumption is that it was that truck that knocked the mirror off my daughter's car also they park the truck and the trailer on one side of Robbins on one side of Hicken Street all the time and again I don't know your personnel but she happened to park in the spot where the truck usually was or the trucks usually were and came out one day and had a cup of coffee and poured all over her car so I don't know who can't blame it but I'm just it was an assumption the other thing is that you have the karate school and you say that they have no designated parking but the customers for the karate school park on our streets park on Robbins and Hicken Street they park their car there for an hour to two hours while they walk the kids over in the karate gear to watch them so they do need parking or they need something they don't just drop off they do stay and they block out our street you come through on a during the day or on a Saturday emergency vehicles would not be able to get down Hicken Street because it's side to side all the way down there are times when your trucks are also parked up on the sidewalk they go onto the sidewalk on Hicken Street so they pull the way out of the street but now they're sitting up on the sidewalk in terms of the they do go around in the winter time I have seen them with their snow blowers and they blow, they do that other side of the sidewalk on Hicken Street but I think that's a small show of something I'm not quite sure because overall it's I I'd just like to add one more thing I think that if they were to take over Allington Tire that would be the place to do their maintenance so they weren't outside wrecking that motorcycle so the noises you hear sorry but they're coming from the tent well in that tent area my porch looks right over I mean it's definitely you can't even hear you can't have a conversation I'm sorry Jerry but there's outside where they also work on them because we can hear the air guns and whatever they're doing with the bikes Ed County I live on Hicken Street also 26 and I've lived there about 20 years and I just want to support my fellow neighbors here about the packing situation but another point of interest is that we are we are witnessing four places that are in need of our parking okay two of the places is your property which is the motorcycle staff another one is the Karate School because I live on the corner of Aunt Quincy the entire left side of the Aunt Quincy street is either the Karate School or it's Jimmy's it's a few of the cars that are coming out of the parking station that are repaired Norman mentioned their parking and crossing our corner that's where the wheelchair ramp is at the corner of the street so you go around that there you continue on the sidewalk towards Mass Ave and there's a car park on the sidewalk right beside the parking lot to the entire place if that's not there sometime on occasion it's a tool truck it's one of those I'm not going to call it a snap on now it's one of the other suppliers I don't know the name of it but the parking is right in that little area there I'd say in the past five or six years it has doubled at least anybody else? anybody else? my name's Andrew Koppel I live in the Cutter School which is between Robbins Road and School Street as many of you may know I don't have much to add to what other people have said other than to emphasize the fact that the noise factor from the revving of motorcycles is really intrusive with disregarding of basic rules about parking on Mass Ave including having trucks that are already too wide to park on Mass Ave off from the curb and thereby making going down Mass Ave both by car and by bicycle particularly difficult having trucks parked at the base of Robbins Road leading into Mass Ave where there's no parking from here to the corner makes it almost impossible to come off Mass Ave and make a right turn onto Robbins Road and have any visibility unless you're riding in a high vehicle it's quite dangerous I not only ride a car but I also ride a bicycle so that becomes a problem I want to go back to something Mr. Fitzsimmons said though I want to say something constructive and that is all these ideas are coming out it isn't clear to me where any of them are going to go strikes me that you should put up in your facility in many places and have it available to hand out to your employees and your customers a set of the most important recommendations that are coming out at this meeting not so many that no one's going to read it but not so few that it will be ineffective and some of them are pretty obvious to me based on what we're hearing today in terms of parking, consideration for neighbors not unnecessarily revving motorcycles keeping in mind that this is a residential area other than on Mass Ave itself and it seems to me that if you could put on one page 8 and a half by 11 not in 6 point type but in very visible type perhaps with colors, perhaps with bold face type do it once print out 100 copies put them all over your facility give them to your customers give them to your employees maybe that would be some way to homogenize and approach that would help as opposed to people just sitting here including myself and complaining about what's going on I was complaining in terms of the trucks and the trailers the way you parked them when you come down Robbins Road and you get Mass Ave if you want to take a ride on the Mass Ave those trucks get parked right with the mailboxes and go down, you can't see around that you actually have to pull almost half way out into Mass Ave to be able to see if any cars are coming from Robbins coming from Robbins onto Mass Ave they park you too close to the park right, I can't see where it's actually illegal it is illegal, happens all over town but it is completely illegal what's the process to go get signs that say no parking on the corner like you said it happens everywhere but is there a process to do that? yes Higgins and Quincy it's like because when I went to driving school I told you they'll leave a little park on the corner but like you said everybody does it and it's dangerous when we came down there was a cab parked on the corner blocking the handicapped ramp from the sidewalk in front of the fight and on a really busy day they're all around there yeah I'm not saying robots but that whole the businesses that are there are very busy and they have very limited parking and we take a brunt of it in that whole circle anybody else here wants to give a comment okay I'm not in response you don't need to not at this time I would say I just was going to thank them it's good to hear made notes of every single thing this is enlightening no defense whatsoever except to say one thing I like all the comments and our employees are rubbing in the driveway and be up and down the streets if a lot of that could be my point I made notes of 80% of this I can address if not 100 and it was enlightening and it was good to hear so that's okay let me first ask does the board have any additional questions so I'm hearing a lot of concerns about parking that maybe even the parking spaces I think I'd like to get some clarification from Michael Byrne on exactly how he figured out the parking spaces and why 13 is sufficient and why it could be reduced to 10 even because I don't in hearing what I've heard tonight from both the butters and from the board I don't believe that 10 spaces is an option at this point I'm sorry I do have one question the two trucks where do they park at the end of the night after they've done picking up and dropping off the park right in the center in the center the motorcycles all move and the trucks come in parking it all down and during the day they're out and about they're loading and going and delivering and sometimes they do stay parked it sounds like more than it's supposed to be under two hours and it generally is under two although they've abused it it sounds like obviously hearing from our neighbors what I'd like to propose is that we don't make a decision tonight but we get another application from you that addresses some of these concerns in a little bit more concrete way the outdoor structure I think needs to be addressed the parking still needs to be addressed if you're ready to put in a gate we can start to address that I think we've talked about some ideas that might work for motorcycle parking we've talked about designating public parking I don't know where the closest public parking is to this location it's a little bit easier in the center of town where there is parking that can be purchased for employees use middle school I said I don't know if that's action option and also signage yeah I think I touched on signage but and I would just echo what the chair has said I think my recommendation was to come back with I would recommend more of a to scale type drawing I know it says at the bottom scale 1 inch she goes 20 feet but I think this is a schematic and that's important because you need to see the size of the parking spaces to see if they meet the bylaw requirements I would give some thought as to whether your loading vehicles trucks could come back through the back this way instead of being on a mass at home so you can load motorcycles onto the truck and if you have room for it to get back out through the street you have to deal with turning radius there can they come off of robins or they can't I can't tell if this goes all the way through to robins but that's a problem to be solved and I'm not saying I have the solution but I think once I acquire to address a lot of this once we do take over the entire spot it will address almost all of it my vehicles can load and unload right from my parking lot we won't have a lot of the noise by the way we can address our working on the bike noise effective immediately regardless of what the board or the neighbors are saying because of the name I think that would be a great way to work on everything inside it just so convenient to go right outside but you do have portions of the building that are indicated for service and they're fully serviceable it's just the convenience of the weather and the this and that it's not so we can start addressing a lot of this immediately but I think if you come back with a concrete proposal for us as the chair is requesting the proposal can't really talk about what might happen on the site in six months because we don't really know if our entire might choose to extend its lease or exercise its option even if they do stay I can give you a ride back and really address this to the level that would be satisfactory to everybody I think at this point that's what we're looking for a rather quick turnaround for you to come back and address the current violations that have been ongoing for as you know a long time the parking has been an issue for a long time and we've heard it again from the residents the loading and the parking of vehicles on the street has been an issue for a long time the noise we're hearing I think for the first time tonight the motorcycles actually we didn't realize what an issue that that was so some of these immediate things that you can address right now we'd like you to address but if you come back you know at the next available meeting time with a plan of what you can do right now with Arlington Tire company still there in the building that's what I'll do if it's something we're going to meet soon with yeah unless something happens between now and we do need a two scale plan so that we can see what your setbacks are that you're proposing for different things we have that by the way we took the board and we have so many to scale plans we do have it this was just because we've been here for so long and you've seen us for so long hopefully not all in a bad way but all these issues I understand that we did this just to give you a snapshot but we'll bring you to scale and have it be decoded which is what we did we had the original 21 parking it was done right then we can see the size of the parking spaces the size of the aisles we may have to use the requirement for backup but we have those and we can provide them I made notes on every single point actually so I have a very good taste and flavor of what I need to do to connect for the next hearing so we're not going to take any action to let it in we need to request it so we'll need the applicant to request the continuation of the hearing and we have to make it to a date certain with one small copy and it is addressed I don't know if I addressed it in my letter but I'm going to say this with a gentle list of the stress obviously I didn't actually bring it up here but I did in one of my letters where the our tenant that wants to put a antenna on the roof is very efficient and neat everything that's happening here is irrelevant to that block on the antenna kind of hindering are they in the room? yeah it's an antenna it's a separate planet it's just an antenna they've gone through a long long waiting process is that relevant to bring up hearing now? because it seems like they're being penalized because of this Parkinson's situation and they just want to put an antenna on the roof for communication purposes it's like a separate thing I know it's being tied into this but I'm suggesting it's separate if something could be done since we're heading in a good positive direction I didn't know if the board could see other ways of saying okay, let them do their thing on their antenna while we do our thing on the ground I don't know I'm happy with sure do you want to go? I guess and this isn't the hearing for that so I guess I'll be interested to hear how that hearing goes but and don't take this cynically but the fact that that has gone on for so long I think it's great you're here and that you're listening to the concerns but you can't help but wonder whether the hold up on that particular tenant is the reason that you are here and that if that tenant is no longer held up because the issues that we have with that new tenant is they need to bring in trucks which you don't have enough parking and circulation problems so frankly if that all of a sudden goes away is it going to be another 10 years before you come before the board again because nothing says that you have to come back for that continued hearing or anything else I hate to be cynical, I hate to be pessimistic but from my perspective and once again I look forward to the next hearing and not making any presumptions the problem has always been with that other one is the circulation that would be required for putting those antenna in for the maintenance of those antenna there's no room for those trucks because you don't have enough parking right now among other things so from that perspective my view is I think that that's why we've continued it as many times as we had waiting for you to come to the board and to address the long time issues that needed to be addressed so we're very happy that you're here tonight to meet you, to see you to hear some of the ideas you have for improvements, we're hoping that you will be back here as rapidly as you can next Monday okay we can get this done quickly so if we're going to continue this do we need to continue it to a date yes you take a certain time the next meeting date is September 22nd there there are a couple items but there's probably there is time on that agenda if that gives you enough time to address them that's two weeks from today so the applicant has already requested a continuous motion so I'll move as we continue the hearing at the applicant's request to September 22nd 2014 at 7pm at 7pm second all in favor bye alright are we invited to that as well? you're invited to everyone okay you bought it you're always invited we'd love to see you okay now I notice that our second applicant I think he's just stepped out yeah um, butters 730 I just want you to thank you I'll change the time I'll move to amend the motion to say 730 on the second all in favor bye thank you thank you I think the neighbors can if you can inform your neighbors 730 she is thank you first over here over here the one in town hall's much nicer you know what you can go through and over go across the top it's very it's awful in there I I don't fear of heights in there well, we'll wait till Bruce is back where are you nothing it'll only be a minute sure so we're going to move Laura up on the agenda and this is for the discussion of the escrow close out for 3050 mil streets that's right so you probably remember that there were a series of transportation oriented improvements that were mandated by the special permit for Brigham's breeding square and those have all been completed now and we want to release the $15,000 escrow account to the department of public works which has front of the money for the traffic improvements which were pretty much exclusively in the area of where the bike path crosses mill street they spent about $9,730 for those improvements and so we want to release of the $15,000 that amount for traffic improvements another thing came up more recently that doesn't directly involve the redevelopment board but the department of public works had an agreement with the developer wood partners to replace a water valve that they have not yet replaced although the mitigation escrow agreement does not cover that particular thing we do have a written statement from the developer wood partners that they would like to release the rest of the money to public works to partially offset the cost of the water valve replacement and then they will give them another check for the rest with the both that I've given you I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have will release the entire escrow account to the department of public works does anybody have any questions one question is Mr. Schenard confident that the $9,731 covers all the traffic mitigation I think the mitigation is finished Carol what was the rest of it the balance to be used for a water valve replacement not a traffic issue but can it be used for that or is it put aside for traffic issues by agreement we have a written email from Addy Grady saying that they would like to release that money to partially cover that cost to the department of public works why not cover the whole thing they will write an additional check the balance is $15,000 so that's only another $5,309 that we go towards the water meter valve and the water main but it's not as more than that why isn't it going for them they are in essence because we're not releasing the escrow back to them they're asking us to just release it back to Wayne so it's going to the town go partially off if we didn't give it to the WPW we would have to return $5,309 to the partners we've done all the traffic and we're taking $5,000 other than using it for the purpose but it's a town purpose with partners so my only question to minor one is the solar panel working so that's what I was wondering because we had so much discussion about what was wrong with it and how they were going to fix it they've got a bigger battery solution great ok, there's no other questions this includes all of the traffic mitigations that were in the special permit the tack brought up to us for the bikeway crossing the stop bars, the stop ahead straight arrows, the eight foot bicycle crossing markings, signs signs yes good ok if I can entertain a motion I have one written out actually do you want me to do you want me to release oh there were oh there is a note a proposed note I wrote an easy one nice job you're really easy I had to be my first trust you know I'd like to see yours yeah exactly let me read you this person I'll see whether we read one oh it's 15,040 not 15,000 that's just interest well somebody pays interest the only thing I would add is to close the escrow account the other item right somebody wants to read that motion I move that in keeping with the mitigation escrow agreement dated March 18, 2013 the Arlington Rebellion Board hereby approve the disbursement of a full amount in the mitigation escrow account named with 15,040 as of the state, September 8, 2014 to the Arlington Department of Public Works for the following purposes $1 for Mill Street bike path improvements $5,309 to partially offset costs the water valve replacement I would add as agreed by the developer as agreed by the developer and this would now close the escrow account and to close the escrow account exactly and to close the escrow account I second that all in favor aye great to get all that Carol as agreed by the developer and close the escrow thank you Laura thanks a lot so now I'd like to move to the next agenda item and open it while re-opening the hearing continuing to hear in for the Environmental Design Review Special Permit also at 1098 Mass Ave for Verizon Wireless to map 12 antennas with remote radio heads and rooftop mounted footmen shed to the top of Boston Motor Vehicle Building hello, could you introduce yourself again audience at home yes Daniel Kladnik I'm the attorney for Verizon Wireless as as the board knows we've been before you since the beginning of June the installation of the wireless telecommunications facility at the Boston Motor Sports Rooftop I think we've already discussed that there are two existing wireless service providers two mobile and sprint operating facilities there now and I think substantively the important I believe I've received from the board is that there isn't any particular concerns with the Verizon Wireless install it seems that the neighbors don't have any particular concerns because they all left as soon as they had the property left so substantively I think what Verizon Wireless has attempted to do was put forward a responsible proposal to address what we've substantiated to be a need for wireless service improvement in this area of the town of Arlington we've done it in a manner I think that's responsible and we've tried to scream the antennas and scream the rooftop equipment shelter in a substantially similar manner to the one that was currently installed by Sprint so I guess we would ask the board to do what we've talked about previously is Verizon Wireless is one of their top sites for this year and because of these delays I think it's probably not going to be possible to put it on there this week I think we've talked last time about the build time where it's necessary to accomplish that you know with the appeal for Arlington which is probably going to be a good thing so I know I've heard the discourse that happened this evening I think it was positive hopefully the board thinks it was positive the property owner did appear seems to be making good faith efforts to try and address the concerns and I think there's some inherent difficulties I guess when you put residential rate next to commercial that there's nothing that this board or anyone else can do it seems clear that the town has substantial ability to actually enforce what are already existing violations if they chose to do so from what I heard this evening you know we're riding the motorcycles if they're breaking the law they just put a police car there and they catch them going up and down the street and they ticket them so it seems to me that the town has other options or other avenues in which to ensure that this building not only gets into compliance but remains in compliance through its enforcement mechanisms that are already in place and that allowing Verizon Wireless to move forward to me seems to me that would reflect our efforts to work in good faith with this board to design a facility and behave in a responsible manner and command it and to continue to penalize and hold up my client although I certainly appreciate the advantages and the value to the board seems to me to be contrary to the land use function that this board is supposed to serve which is to evaluate each application based upon the merits of that particular application Verizon Wireless does not require any parking for its use it's an unmanned wireless facility I didn't hear any other comments about the other wireless service providers Verizon Wireless would at most have a technician come once a month after the facility is constructed to service it perhaps not even that frequently as I understand it, on-street parking is allowed so if necessarily the park on the street it wouldn't be for an extended period of time it certainly wouldn't be even cars overnight so it would be a sale tech in either an SUV, a car or a pickup stopping, getting out checking to make sure all the equipment is operating properly so it's a very low impactful use and one that's consistent with this zone and is allowed by the by the bylaw how long typically does a good question just for this as far as the service visit Chuck Weberley he's a site acquisition consultant who's taken over for Kerry Deeper he's testified an hour I mean it could vary slightly obviously things are what they need to do it's usually just go in there and they just connect some testing equipment to make sure everything's operating properly that's primarily what their function is typically the technician with a backpack and a laptop no actual real work takes place inside, it's just plugs in his laptop does some diagnostics it's typically in like a small SUV, actually some of them in the more urban locations are driving smaller cars, Prius is now but it's not, I mean it has commercial plates but it's not a box truck if you will I think I want to hear from the board first on how we feel after the last hearing as you stated we've heard your application before we've told you it's been a very complete thorough application and we appreciate your effort so far and it's unfortunate that this site has a lot of pre-existing issues that were violations that are still violations and still congestion and circulation issues and the board's original statements to you I think were in the effect of we don't want to add more congestion, we don't want to increase violations to safety that are already existing there I think that first I would just like to thank you for your efforts in regard to whatever work you're doing behind the scenes to bring property owner back in front of us because that is the way that this underlying site violations are going to get addressed there are some enforcement mechanisms that are available to us from the town's point of view but to date they have not really been affected I think it's an interesting legal question as to whether we can grant a special permanent for use at a site when the sort of underlying special permit is that it's been in violation unless since the day it was issued and I don't profess to know the answer to that but my gut is that your special permit builds and rests on the underlying special permit and if that's invalid it could possibly be capable of being revoked I don't see how we're in a position to grant a special permit to Verizon now that being said I think earlier special permit hearing was constructive my hope is that the propaganda is going to come back with a plan that will address the board's concerns and the public's concerns and we may only be two weeks away from the solution so my own feeling is it's still premature for the vote on the Verizon special permit as the chair said it's a strong application and I think that you know my sense is that I would be prepared to vote favor of it if the underlying special permit violation must be procured in a similar way I would also like to think that two weeks from now we'll have a plan in hand that we can be much more comfortable with and can hopefully rely on and have some other questions maybe answered with respect to enforcement and what can be done and finds and that type of thing to be able to feel good enough that I mean from my perspective since day one you know I've talked about circulation and everything else I know it's just one car I know it's only for a couple hours but you're hearing what we're dealing with so I still think it's relevant the underlying issues are still relevant to your application unfortunately and from that perspective I hope that two weeks from now that we'll be in a much better place with respect to it I tend to agree with my colleagues I am not allowed to rule on this one this one oh you're not I was not able to do that and I wasn't sure this was going to be the stage for that possible the next hearing or a vote of forward a vote of forward to it also and I agree with my colleagues that I would be in favor of it but these underlying issues it's taken us you know your first application came in in May it's taken us from May until now to see the owner here in front of the board with any type of application which is an extremely positive step and we're very happy that he came in tonight I'm afraid that if we take the pressure off of him that we won't see him again and sure we have enforcement mechanisms but they haven't been effective for whatever reasons they haven't been so if two weeks you know we've already got them on the agenda now for the continuance of the hearing in two weeks if you'd be so inclined to also request a continuance to the same evening I think we can put both on again we're very close it sounds like I mean it feels that way I'm hoping the applicant will come in to work with Carol to really get a plan that's gonna be in shape in two weeks there's no guarantee of that either but at that point maybe our comfort level at least will be high enough that even if we're not fully satisfied we know that we're really have some momentum working in the right direction I don't feel that we have that momentum yet I have to agree you're looking at me so I'm gonna take the opportunity to agree I spend a lot of time meeting with Mr. Sarandolo and you can tell that he also spent time with the Director of Inspectional Services I was a little disappointed with what came back because I knew it didn't address everything but I do feel like progress has been made tonight and I think progress I think he gets the message loud and clear that these long standing violations have to end and I also want to just conclude by saying that if this were a swap out of equipment from an existing carrier who was just updating equipment that might even be different but this is adding a third carrier and adding two structures in the roof it is more intensive on the property in my view so I appreciate the patience you brought and I agree I do appreciate if you've done anything to help Mr. Sarandolo get in here because it's helping you it's helping your client so the 20 seconds going to be a busy meeting but boys, wow well as I said Verizon wants us to be prepared to work with the board and the community and bring this forward so I don't see two weeks although just so the board understands there's a lot of pressure to get this done tell them no one could be doing a better job than you've been doing thank you so yes I think it's my client's best interest to request a continuous 20 seconds we continue the hearing to September 22nd 2014 8 30 does that sound right that's probably okay because we have a couple things we're going to need to hear before Mr. Sarandolo and then probably right after Mr. Sarandolo maybe even longer Mr. Sarandolo took an hour today to work for all of us to hear what he had I'm thinking an hour worst case we could put other things in between yeah we could do it at 9 o'clock you can move it we can move it back we could say 8 30 we could move it back let's be helpful okay do I have a second second mic second all in favor so I'm just can I just look away can I just look away can I just look away this is a letter that attorney classic will provide that state that we're continuing the hearing and we'll give your signature and for his client that's important your audience sure thank you thank you thank you we love seeing you here can I bring up a related question just to ask some more this is just for us can you request what kinds of fines might be applicable for the things that we noticed today we have a letter that states that what the fines are, how much and they can go up to $300 a day the first defense, second defense third defense if the tent is not permitted if there's no I'm talking about you know I think the point that attorney classic made was that there are enforcement avenues available to the town and I guess I have to scratch my head a little bit because I don't know frankly what those are we did get a letter on June 27th from what was addressed to Perugina from Michael Byrne if the notice of warning is not complied with according to the time specified in said warning the inspector of buildings for saying to each day in violation in which a violation exists shall be deemed a separate offense the penalty for violation of any provision of this bylaw shall be 25 for the first 50 for the second, 100 for the third and 200 for the fourth and each subsequent offense I suspect this was June 27th and we heard this I don't know what meeting that was well maybe the question is a little different thank you that's really helpful actually is when you're asking that is the enforcement officer about the how he came up with the parking spaces I think we're asking about the calculation the I guess I'd be curious as to whether there's a plan for enforcement of a few of these things it was doing it may be misremembering the bylaw but I think that the building inspector does have to go before the board of solicitors before the fines can be issued is that right because the zoning enforcement officer can seek both a civil as well as a criminal remedy that is stated in here and at least the criminal remedy he has to go before the board of solicitors which would make some sense not sure about the civil that might just be helpful because if any goes on to say the inspector of buildings may also with the approval of the board of solicitors institute appropriate criminal action so maybe the it's only criminal anyway I'd be curious to know more about the details of how you would proceed with enforcement what steps he needs to take if we frankly if Verizon was off the table one way or the other they've only got a certain amount of time before maybe we're ending up with them up or down and if we went down we'd have the exact same issue but with the enforcement to keep Mr. Saradola interested in the needs of the neighbors we have the right to revoke any or all of the special permits previously that was on the table a few years ago what would that accomplish like the tent is even permitted you're not revoking anything right to use the right to use the property for motor vehicle sales because that's a special permit and that was proceeding several years ago and one of the special permits in front of you I believe was a result of that actually the most the current parking arrangement was a product of that hearing to revoke the special permit the current existing today on the ground parking arrangement on plan which reflected the several tenants several additional tenants on the property that was the 21 space plan which has never really been implemented apparently not okay thank you that's actually really helpful to me thinking about this anything else before we move on alright so we just have a few items left on the agenda central school update okay I was going to give this a little bit the council on aging has experienced increased demand for services and needs additional space and town staff and the town manager and two members of this board that with the president and vice president of the seniors association nonprofit which as the board knows has been an occupant in the building for many years to let them know that some of the space that they've been using will be repurposed and this is going to be for council on aging services this will be on your agenda I hope on the 22nd for further consideration and action this is all related to the board has been working on your work plan for some time and asked me to try to work on re-tenant things so the least spaces in the central school buildings that account includes the central school the Jefferson Cutter House and 23 Maple Street we have three spaces that are supposed to be least occupants two of whom have never had a lease and one whose lease expired and has been a tenant at will so this will also be part of an effort to put out our possible proposals for those spaces and get those tenant in so in addition we have been discussing a pavement scheme to make some improvements on the site we know that so a lot of pavement is in disrepair and Christine has very kindly prepared concepts you've reviewed we're moving further on getting those refined getting actual specifications prepared to go to bid with regard to 23 Maple Street we are putting together the RFP to get that building under procurement law get it lease negotiated and executed likewise there's space under the eaves in the central school that for many many years has been occupied by Mr. Gringo Watershow Association so I've contacted them to let them know that we would be putting out an RFP would be nice if they were successful which doesn't mean that all of these leases would be open to anyone to bid or go through procurement so this is probably going to need some growing pains so I wanted the board to be aware you may begin to hear from some of the occupants if you have any questions or concerns in the interim let me know but we will have I'm hopeful we'll have on the agenda on the 22nd part of these growing pains that Council of Aging is growing and needs more space and they do expect to provide some additional services and programs and really need the space to do that so I think it's a positive thing I think the intention is to have all of the programming that is currently offered continue to be offered with quite a bit of additional complimentary program from the Council on Aging will the RFPs for the three buildings be separate RFPs? yes sure just to give some some of the numbers may not realize that in the early 1980s when the Central School was transferred by time meeting it was surplus school building it was transferred to the custody of the redevelopment board for redevelopment an urban renewal project was undertaken to renovate the building to create a building for seniors a senior center and for the public and the some of the space in the upper stories was going to be rented so that that could subsidize the senior issues included in that plan was an attention that the Arlington Senior Association which is a non-profit organization would be a tenant once the building got once it was ready to be occupied shortly after they took occupancy they were supposed to negotiate a lease the record shows that that did not happen the Arlington Senior Association at the time made the argument that they should not pay rent compressing a lot of history into a very short period of time they made the argument that they should not pay rent and they haven't paid rent that's a lot of space that has never had a lease so there's no protection against liability claims because there is no agreement there's no lease so that's one concern there is also a concern about fair and equal access to programming and there's also a little concern about meeting the procurement law which you can't convey a public good or service or service to you can't just give it away as a government that has to go through that has to be made available on an equal footing basis everyone has to have an opportunity to compete for that public good and that wasn't done with this space so it's time to do that and that's a secondary but important aspect of this I think the real positive thing is that I think we're now at a point where we are seeing this blossoming of programming to meet this blossoming of interest as the aging population increases and this we need the space to do it and to their credit I think the Council on Aging and others have worked and hope to continue to work to try to not just maintain I know the Council on Aging is going to increase programming I believe in hope that the ASA will continue to program me as well very welcome to do that and they may even be able to do that by releasing some smaller portion of the space in the building Any questions? Does that make any sense? Carol did a very good job of presenting it to the Arlington Senior Association President and Vice President in a very positive way because it could be a very positive collaborative effort now to really strengthen programming fully utilize the space that's there It's very much underutilized and we shouldn't have any town buildings that are very much underutilized Especially when it's to be used for senior Exactly, especially when we have so many seniors in town that would love to partake in more programming so we're hoping that making the site more accessible will also help We can go into more detail I'm sure when this is only agenda for action but one thing I left out that I think is important is that the Council on Aging needs to meet HIPAA requirements, the Health Care Information Privacy and Portability Act and I've probably butchered that a little bit but it's taken very seriously and right now they don't have a place where they can have that type of consultation with elderly people who come for services so it's very awkward for them so this will afford them we're hoping that even as soon as October we'll have some spaces where they can conduct those interviews and meet HIPAA requirements because that's also a real concern the town has some liability there as well We're hoping it will come and accountability HIPAA I knew that at one point I forgot it HIPAA, not H-I-C-A It is not an email hippo, correct HIPAA I just thought it was an E-A-G-P-A I know That's the filter in your vacuum So we're hoping that the next meeting will propose for the Board to take action actually Next item is also for Carol on the agenda, the sign review The Board might recall in June and if you don't don't worry about it having received your packets a draft set of procedures for possible administrative review for the Board to consider adopting on sign proposals that meet certain very specific conditions We get a lot of new businesses change and that means the sign changes in a property that's already gone through EBR so the time is taken and there's as well with the weight and the expense about notifications for what seems to be a routine review So I've put forth some criteria for your consideration to see if you think that signed applications that meet these criteria could be handled by staff administratively rather than going through an opening of a special permit process So the criteria would be they would have to meet all of these The property building or storefront has already received prior sign approval from the ARB through environmental design review and a sign permit from inspectional services So right there, if they don't have a sign permit they don't get administrative review If they haven't gone through EBR before they're not eligible for this They would also have to We would also have to ensure that there are no known zoning or general violations on the property They would have to be proposing the same number or fewer signs as what they already have permission for They'd have to be the same size or smaller The signs would be proposed from the same locations as the existing signs The sign illumination is either not proposed or is the same as for the existing signs Or is external shielded down lighting and the proposed sign is not internally illuminated And see, this is to capture and all of the things that I might think the board would want to have a chance to review So stop me at any point The building is not in or is Actually, can I back up to the one before proposed sign is not internally illuminated If it were internally illuminated before You're saying that you still wouldn't I'm actually thinking that as long as it was internally illuminated before and it's no more lumens or anything else Why wouldn't that also be subject to administrative review? That makes sense That's possible, because technology changes it might be if you had a different type of internal illumination I think that's fine I'm actually looking for you to take on even a little bit more which is that I think if it's different if it's the same internal illumination I'm not exactly sure why we would not have you administrative myself, that's my own I agree Okay, well I'll keep going The building is not in I think there's a typo here The building is not in nor is it adjacent to historic district nor is the building listed on the Arlington inventory of historic and significant properties or the state registered historic properties and no changes proposed in the number of logos will go for a grand name The new proposed sign meets zoning requirements or parameters set in the EDR special permit The sign does not have a white background and sign is legible from the public way in the opinion of the director No window signs are proposed and this is optional One of the allowed signs proposed may be a bracket sign that meets the zoning requirements for bracket signs Now that, I'm saying that's optional because the board has a pad many they're supposed to be allowed by right If you're subject to EDR for a wall sign and someone wants to come in and have a bracket sign and it's subject to EDR you might want to look at the bracket sign I don't know, we do have very specific dimensional requirements in the bylaw We've also prepared a diagram that you might recall from the zoning bylaw amendment at a meeting that clearly shows what you're allowed to do in terms of size, distance, and building and all But it's really up So there's no wrong answer if the board would like to see one Can I jump in for one second, Carol? Is this, this is great But is there a sentence in here that just simply allows you at any time to decide that this requires the application to the board So something like DPC DPC is not required to provide administrative approval at any time to demand the application to the board You may see something My intention was to include that but I don't see it You always want to be able to say that if there's any hesitancy If this is a lighted sign and it's substantially the same but if suddenly it's a whole new lighting thing the board needs to understand that we're going to be looking at LED lighting in a whole different category You don't have to hold the phone You've got to go back and But you don't want it to say That's the escape valve And I think if you have that escape valve then you don't even need the word optional there because you always have the escape valve So you may say this is really within the bylaw or you may say wait this is your asking for it We can probably add it either in the top paragraph or at sign proposals that do not meet the above criteria But I want to add to that that it's not only that they're not looking but then they'll say I've met all these criteria You've got to give it to me Well that's why I think we have to add it either up in the top paragraph or as a second paragraph Department of Public Kenny Bruce has something to add Oh well it's not a different point so why don't you go and finish Thank you DP whatever your acronym is is not required to provide administrative approval and may at any time remand the application to the board Do you like that? Yes I just thought of that I was going to refer but then I decided to remand No you should remand I think you wanted to refer to that I really wanted to I really wanted to Alright I'd like to remand It's a great word I just don't think it's so appropriate I really wanted to use that On the bracket sign Are we talking about a new bracket sign whereas previously there were no bracket signs If so then I think on your third bullet point where you're talking about it has to be in the same location as the existing sign It doesn't really work without having an exception for a possible bracket sign in lieu of a bold sign So it sounds like I get your point I think you're right otherwise the logic of this is broken so that may be remedy by adding an exception into that third bullet for bracket signs Okay except that one of the allowed signs requirements I have one other No change is proposed in number of logos or brand name or size of logos or brand name display It reads as if If I change my If I change my logo I guess if someone changes their logo I'm not sure I have a problem with you administratively looking at that What about changing it to scope of scope but we've already almost got that up here I guess right I'm not sure we even need that one I think you're going because there's a I forget which sign by line it is that talks about logos but I think what we decided on that was more like a coca-cola sign or something like that versus the name of the store but it seems to me I'm not sure you need that one because of the third bullet point if your signs are proposed the same size or smaller sign or sign areas are proposed but I'm not exactly sure if the logo is rise to their own category and I think I would be concerned that that it might not pick up something that's a pretty easy change just because the store changed its name If it's a bigger change you can always bring it back I prefer Yeah I have one comment on the third and then we'll move on to the rest of them Excuse me though Do you agree I should strike that then that bullet one, two, three, four I think that's fine to strike that The brand name and logo Does everybody agree? Yes Strike that Andrew We can strike that one So continue You're okay with that also She's controlled by the size of the sign all these other things So that's the one Two, if the same number or fewer signs are proposed now we might have the situation where fewer signs is not safe or not appropriate So I have a little bit of a problem with that Maybe the same number or fewer signs are proposed if safety is not impaired or I'm thinking of certain instances where Isn't that one of the safety valve questions That's a safety valve is what I'm saying because they're going to have so many different conditions There'll be a time when it'll look just right but the combination of the way it looks, she's going to say this needs a board referral because I just don't feel comfortable with it Sometimes like if you were to reduce the size of say the number on a gas the amount the gas costs of the gas station we looked at those numbers and we had one applicant that the numbers were smaller we didn't actually like that because you couldn't read it easily when you're driving past and it was a safety issue Do you remember that? I mean it's a minor thing but sometimes making the sign smaller isn't always better But even if you making the sign fewer isn't always better Even if you had that in there and you said you know unless for safety reasons the director is still making that call So it's no different than the safety valve So in other words Do you see what I'm saying? I mean because either way the director's going to have to make that call whether it says safety in there or not I guess that's why I think My concern is Well right exactly My concern is if you put safety in there and the director does something I guess the norm is that you know there was a safety issue The norm is the fewer is better and smaller is better So it would be abnormal Yeah and I think the point is is that what wouldn't fit in here is if there were more Right Okay I know that Okay Carol do you want to continue? So just to review the one we edited The criteria above are required to proceed via formal public hearings to reopen the special permit Department of Planning and Community Development is not required to provide administrative approval and may at any time refer the application to the board and the procedure would be three weeks prior to applying for a signed permit with inspection services they would submit to Department of Planning and Community Development And that would be photos of the existing signs schematic drawings etc. All of the things that they typically would have to provide we'd request to see those things and we would then give them written notification of administrative approval and improve set of their materials so that they can take that with them to apply for their building permit for the sign The only thing I don't address in here is that applications usually for review for special permit usually is the $200 fee I'm not proposing a fee Part of that is because they would be a legal notice this would avoid the need for a legal ad it would avoid the need for a butter notification so the I haven't done a calculus of this but you can imagine that that cost is significant for using that $200 this also has administrative overhead costs but I haven't priced them out I don't know how the board feels about charging a fee for this or not I think time is valuable but certainly this does take I could see where it would be it does take staff review and it can take several iterations to work with what do you think Caroline do you think there should be a nominal fee to cover your costs it definitely takes staff time can we set that fee yes that's not a time meeting issue time it's convenient it says the directors that you are doing this that's what makes me one of the things I like about it but it also means that your time my time also I think there's probably the signed proposal that you may be getting more sketchier than what the proponent would be providing if they were going in front of the full board so you may have to do a little bit more working with the applicant to say I really need to get a better idea of what it is that you're going to do there it could actually be more time consuming for you there's already a lot of back and forth for review if the proposal is sent up to the board and they're going to have to pay the 200 anyway that's for the 200 exactly it would cost the applicant a lot more than the 200 to appear here and have their consultants here their lawyers I like the idea Andrew's idea though we should just charge the same fee the same doesn't cover any hours if they were referred to for EDR the fee would be charged again because if they've gone through that process and after all that work it hasn't yielded an administrative review the work to do the EDR is going to be the same as what someone else might have acquired of the board who hasn't gone through EDR but who has paid the 200 in special permit I guess on that I want to I guess I would hope that it would become apparent it needs to go to EDR a little bit quicker than that so maybe we can hold off on whether we're charging the 200 twice and get some data on how things are going yeah I mean that would be my view because I'd rather think that let's just do the 200 for putting in the signs and then see whether we're too high too low and consider all the same process essentially yes because my own thought is I should think it's going to become apparent pretty quickly whether something needs to go to EDR and then you're out there with your ad and the butters notice before hopefully you've taken too much time saying Bruce you might get less than full proposal why should you get a less than full proposal I mean understanding it's just for the signage but you're asking for the same stuff here aren't you so I thought that it should be prepared as if it were an EDR as if it were an EDR but you're not making them go to EDR and that's along with it at any time you can say okay I'm going to bring this up next Monday we have a meeting of two weeks from now and that's where it's advertised yeah I think the two order makes sense until you have more data that says one way or the other that's fine I think the requirements of the submittal for signage should be any different than the EDR should be any less except that they wouldn't have to go through the full standard exactly otherwise you won't be protected against somebody coming back and saying well did you really look at it carefully how do you approve that you need to have the detailed plan stamp so that I can say yep to protect you but you can hopefully make a very quick judgment on many of them that's the whole point of it that's right what else anything else on the draft criteria does not have a white background yeah I think that's a that's just a deal breaker well back when I first came on the board I think that some of the design professionals on the board expressed to you that you're going to have a richer sign if you have a colored background with white lettering as opposed to a white background with colored lettering and particularly if the sign is illuminated because with that white background you're kind of it can be a little harsh whereas you're getting a much warmer and richer light emanating from a colored background so I've actually one of the few things that has stuck with me over six years with Bruce's rules with that point and I supported it I actually think that it is a richer look as opposed to having a white background with black lettering okay that's just a touch point that we probably want to look at because there are some perfectly nice I think we have them in town for various banks that have a white logo with dark letters but I know I thought you might be referring to those horrible ones that have little letters that are tacked into grooves and they sign sandwich advertisements or whatever yeah those are but that's the sign type but I think there's one bank that has a black lettering it has a white background yeah with black lettering it can be done well but again I guess for administrative approval if it's a white background with interior elimination it can be pretty bright so that might be something that we as a board might have a look at sure okay so are you looking for us to do we need to make any kind of motion we do are we ready to make a motion do you have a copy that you feel good about so we can say yes but if you would like I would just want to be sure of that by reviewing what changes would be made okay I don't think you have to do the whole thing just the changes yep there's just three things we did really the third bullet would say it's the same number etc and then before the word and we would say accept that one of the allowed signs proposed may be a bracket sign that meets the zoning requirements for bracket signs comma and so that you'd flow into the next bullet then two bullets down the one that says no changes proposed in the number of logos we are striking that and the third change is adding Andy's sentence with the escape valve to the end of after the sentence that's three above from the bottom sign proposals that do not meet the criteria above at the end of that sentence after the word special permit we would add department of planning community development is not required to provide administrative approval and may at any time refer the applicant to the board there was one more we were going to take out the word optional I think I think we're losing that whole sentence comes out that whole sentence without the word optional we'll move into that third bullet okay right at the end of it I'll move approval of the of the administrative sign review procedures as amended second nice that's good thank you very much for your confidence and who's second to that please I second it okay one last item minutes we can go around the table we'll see if we can have any comments on the minutes from July 21st sure let's see this is I guess about the third paragraph that says Miss Kowalski was asked to report and I thought we might flush out the minutes by saying what she was asked to report on just the report was do you remember what you were asked to report on I know we're going back a few that's a very reasonable request we'll go back to the notes and see what that was about listen we'll remember I don't have the agenda even from that night I think what it was actually was she was asked to report on what communications there had been between the property owner and the town the third paragraph from the bottom of the page that begins with Mr. Kare stated that having already continued to hearing etc the second sentence he said he continued to say that Mr. Kowalski because on everything he was supposed to do at this property and I think that maybe what we want to say here is at this juncture of the proceedings because I don't think we're asking Mr. Kowalski to do anything on the property or at this point or at this point oh we got at this point right after you could say at this point and yeah well I said at this juncture of the proceedings because exactly this juncture of the proceedings makes sense and then we could add but and strike at this point and say good the property needs to get straightened up do you want to take out the second at this point oh I guess we could and then I'm over to the fourth page and this is third page it is third so I guess the sixth paragraph which begins Mr. Kowalski said she had mixed feelings and in the second sentence which she said it makes sense to stop at Mystic Lake but to include the area framed by Mystic Chesna and Medford Streets which I think is what we said so insert before the word instead of the word including but to include but to include the area framed by bounded by Mystic Chesna and Medford Streets great thank you I had provided my comments earlier well indeed and I'd like to point out that my biggest comment was is that your election was missing so I made sure that that was included I didn't think it was you who may have done the minutes because at first these minutes did not have your election as chairman of them I also provided comments and I missed that you missed that oh what a surprise you missed it it was so funny how they're like wait a second that's the only thing I wanted to see I wanted to see Christine's election and it wasn't in here and they're like wait a second exactly did Christine's election by a landslide vote lucky for me okay no I don't have anything additional nothing I had one comment in the middle of the third page Mr. West asked if Millbrook starts with Great Meadows then Elsie Fiori introduced herself stated she was the chair of the conservation commission when Cook's House was putting to existence didn't she have a question she was curious about what was being proposed for the study area I couldn't remember when I commented but I think she had she didn't just stand up and introduce herself and say she had been involved in the past I think she was interested in the process and then Mr. Kair stated that a study in the Millbrook district would help the ARB we picked up what you were answering in Elsie's question and asked for more information about the study right that's good I can't remember exactly if she was asking for the reason for the study or she was just curious about what was happening good okay I hear a motion I move to approve the minutes how's it been all in favor I too definitely sad the first time I barely said it and I didn't remember myself okay so one last motion are you a motion to adjourn no let's stay here I'll move to adjourn second all in favor I alright well done there we go adjourn