 Well, I'm pleased to introduce our two guests speakers tonight with us is Liana Giuliano. Liana is the 2022 steering committee member of the JCLC conference which is the joint conference of librarians of color, and the co-chair of the, was it registration committee. She's also a treasurer of the American Indian Library Association and past president of the American Indian Library Association. Joining us is also Jennifer Ash, her colleague at her firm. And so we're very delighted to have them here with us tonight to share with you the 101 about library work in the law field so thanks a lot for joining us tonight and sharing your wealth of knowledge with our students. Take it away. Well, first we're going to start about a little bit how the profession found us. As in most things I was not looking to be a research librarian in law. I was going to be a lawyer, and I worked as a, my college work study was research assistant in the my college library. And I really liked it. I really good at it. And when I was getting close to graduating from college they kept me on. And then about a year in the, all of the librarians and the, the head and the director got together and said hey you know you're really good at this you can't be just a clerk your life did you think about going to library school and I went no I didn't but okay that's a good, that's a good place to go. And then I never thought a million years I'd be in war I thought I was going to go in academia and then I was doing my resume I was close to graduating I went to Pratt Institute I was close to graduating with my master's and a woman was there working hot time and she said oh my husband helps place people. To me to give him your resume and I and I had a job three months later started at Kelly dry and Warren. I've only worked two places Kelly dry and Paul Hastings and I'll be 28 years at Paul Hastings and I always like to tell people the one thing I like to take away from my experiences, be open to what other people see in you. I mean it's really amazing I never would have imagined me at this place as a career, but it actually found me it's actually something I still really love. You know 40 some ideas doing it I really do love it I enjoy the work I enjoy the people, and I'm grateful for listening to the people that saw something in me that I didn't see myself. And my journey into librarianship was was a little different I did not go into librarianship or even really consider it as a career. When I was in college in fact there was a gap of about 10 years between the time that I graduated and I decided to go to library school and during that time I was very focused on sports I did that for a living I was professional horse trainer and rider and then I was also a snowboarder snowboard instructor and I lived up in the mountains and I would snowboarding all the time. And one day my mother who worked at a law firm called me and said hey the law librarian here is asking if you would be interested in filling in as a library clerk while her normal person was out on maternity leave. And I was kind of surprised to even hear that there was such a thing as a librarians in in law firms I was very familiar with other positions within law firms because my mother's always worked it had always worked at one and so I was very familiar with the field itself and but I just had no clue that there was any such as a law librarian so on a whim I went and I talked with her and I was shocked to learn about how many different types of librarians there actually are. I was absolutely not interested in the law I had enough of it growing up and I was not interested at all but I learned that there were medical librarians and music librarians and all sorts of things and it really blew my mind and kind of opened the door for me that there that there was a place for me in this field that I just didn't even know existed. So after thinking about it a little bit I went ahead and applied to SJSU and got in and started going going to school there. And at the beginning I was kind of focused on medical librarianship thought I wanted to do that. But like you know like many of us when you get out of school you kind of get the first job you can get and I ended up in in the public field. During library school I focused mostly on tech related things in particularly information architecture that was really my love. But I went into public librarianship which I never thought I would do I was absolutely adamant against doing it but I gave it a try and I enjoyed it and I lost it about a year and as a public librarian. But then I was lucky enough to move into a position as the Internet Librarian for the County of Los Angeles public library so I moved to the library headquarters and that sort of started my journey as I don't really like to call it a tech librarian per se I just just focusing more on the back end of things and what I've always kind of thought of myself being is someone who makes sure that the people that are doing the frontline work I was a law librarian public library and academic librarian whoever where myself and my team are back there making sure that they're able to do the work that they need in order to serve the patrons or the lawyers or whatever. So I really enjoyed being an Internet Librarian but the law firm actually ended up calling me back and I went I went to the law firm that my mom had worked at and was there for about seven years. And then I was recruited by Paul Hastings and I've been here for 10 years so 17 years in the legal field now and very much very much enjoyed as well like Jen said. It's been rewarding and fun and. Yeah, it's it's it's pretty great. Okay. I'm going to advance the slide here. No. Okay, there we go. Come on. Our graphics aren't coming up. Oh, there we go. Jen, you're on mute. What does a law librarian look like? It has changed so dramatically over the years since I first started and even in the last 10 years it straight it's changed dramatically. I mean, picture this. When I started there were no computers at all. Everything was my book. Everything. We had multiple copies of books. We had two floors of books in the law firm. And then gradually you got the government started with the Internet and then once that started. It just mushroomed from that point on. I mean, we had, I don't know if you've ever heard it, the Westlaw terminals or they call it the Lexus Ubex. They were standalone terminals where you did the typing and it just did Lexus or you were on Westlaw and it just did Westlaw and you printed it in. You can look this up in Google, a dot matrix printer. But now this is all we do. Everything's electronic. And that's the majority of my day is spent on the computer. And Leon is part of the job was helping us transition from print to electronic and she can talk a little bit about that. But it's honestly it's made the job more better, faster, but also more difficult. The attorneys and everybody feel like, well, you can get anything and you can get it really fast. That's not always the case. We make it look real easy. But there's so many databases and so much out there that we're never going to not have a job because we need to help them navigate because every database has the only way of searching it. There's no universal search. So it's actually, in a sense, more difficult than it was many years ago now with the proliferation of things. And with, you know, we have chat GDP now and that just adds a whole nother, nother thing to what is what is it going to look like in five years? Yeah, it's really, it's really changed. We're missing two pictures on here, but I'm not going to worry about that. They were our pictures of books. So, yes, when I came on board at Paul Hastings, my role was to reduce the physical footprint of the library. That was the goal and it wasn't so much that we were trying to get rid of books that people needed. But we were, they were trying to reduce duplication, reduce redundancies in content. So I think when I first started, Sheila, you can just leave this, this one up if you want. It's fine. So sorry. You can do this. This is the next slide anyway. No problem. When I first started, I think there was like 14,000 linear feet of physical books across all the offices and now we're down to about maybe a thousand across all the offices. And I know that as, as budding librarians, that sounds really scary that we got rid of all the books. But that's not, that's not really, it's not so much about the books where, where we need books, we still have them. There's still plenty of things that are only available in a book or a newsletter or a journal. And we certainly still have access to those things. But in, at least in the legal field, so much has been able to transition online that it just makes things a lot easier now for us to have. A broader wealth of content available to a larger number of people. So imagine having to have the same books in 10 offices. Imagine the cost of that and the cost of keeping all that content updated. So something that a lot of people don't know about law books in general is that they get updated either yearly or multiple times a year. And so you have to have someone that is able to do that. So you're also paying a salary for someone to be updating those books. And you're paying for the book. You're not paying once in the book. It's like a book you buy, you own it. You keep paying for that new version of the book or that updated version of the book. And it's not that we're anti book. We are not anti book, but, but think about COVID and us having to go completely online. No one being able to be physically anyplace without having the material available. It would have been impossible. We were able to make that transition seamlessly to helping people that weren't physically in an office to helping people when they're in their homes. And the wealth of information and the time it takes you to get through things. You guys don't know what jeopardizing is, but when you take up a case and you want to see if the case is still good. Old book way you had to go through 10 volumes of a set of books and then all the updates of those books. Now we plug the case in, hit a button and it tells us whether it's still good. So it's just in this industry. It's it's amazing what what the technology has done and it's not necessarily a bad thing. Yeah, the the landscape for law firm libraries has has really changed not just for us, but for most law firms. And it's more about making things as efficient as possible for the attorneys to be able to do the work. I'm sure a lot of you have heard a lot of grumblings about the billable hour, but it's something that that's how attorneys work. So the more that they can get accomplished and get done, then the better for the law firm, which trickles down to us because then we have jobs and our teams have jobs. So the landscape of law firm libraries has has really changed dramatically in just the last 10 years. And it's it's scary, but it's exciting at the same time because you really because things are changing, you're not always doing the same thing anymore like being a public library is great and it's fun and you get lots of different types of questions. So, you know, the day is not dull, but what I find intriguing about working in a law firm specifically is that we get such a variety of different types of projects that we work on. We could be working on creating a departmental site for our firms internet. We could be helping attorneys update documents for what's called 50 state law, which I don't do research. That's that's Jen's Ballywick, but that's something that, you know, that's a project that they work on regularly for different aspects of the law. We could be negotiating the price of a new product to bring on for the attorneys or we could be rolling out new technology. So, you know, it's it's always keeping you fresh and aware of what is going on. And one thing I wanted to share with you all about, you know, what a law librarian looks like a lot of people think that you have to have a JD, your law degree to work at work in the law librarian role, but that's not necessarily true. The only place that where they really sort of require that is if you're going to a law school so the academic version of law is where they require a JD. But working at a law firm or a court library, a lot of times just having a knowledge or inquisitive nature of wanting to learn about doing legal research is enough to get you in the door. It's a smaller field and I do want to touch a little bit about job hunting, even though that's not what the thrust of this webinar is about because I think the things that we're going to talk about Jen and I are going to talk about. The traits that we have for being law librarians are good things for you across the board regardless of what type of job you ultimately end up doing. So that's why I wanted to share with you about the JD is that don't think that that's going to stop you from doing this if it sounds exciting or intriguing to you. All right. All right, so we have a couple quotes up here that we wanted to talk about one thing we didn't mention yet to you all is the name of our department so we're not the library. We are practice innovations and legal solutions and it is a very large department that encompasses a lot of different teams. There's the research team that Jen does. There's my team which is practice resources and we'll both talk about our roles more specifically in a second. We have a team of practice innovation attorneys whose job it is to work directly with attorneys in different practice groups to help them be more efficient in their work. We also have a team of practice management a practice management team where they help the attorneys be better about budgeting their work. It's called matters so that the firm can get paid again and pay all our salaries. So there's a lot of different facets within within our department and then we all kind of come together for the greater good of helping the firm move forward from our various areas of work. So I wanted to read these two quotes. Jordan Furlong is a thought leader in law firm economics and a frequent speaker on the realities of the legal marketplace and the artificial lawyer is a really good blog that covers technology topics in the law. So the first one is this is a little bit of an old quote but it's still really relevant. Starting now law librarians and KM personnel have the opportunity to integrate themselves into the architecture of the burgeoning new law firm model. The collection curation dissemination and application of knowledge will lie at the heart of profitability of profitability efficient law firms of the future and they are the stewards of that knowledge. So that kind of ties into what I was just telling you about our department. We have morphed from being called knowledge management to practice innovation to practice innovation and legal solutions. And it's all about bringing technology into the field and and harnessing that technology and harnessing that knowledge so that others can benefit from it. And I would turn it over to Jen because I just talked a whole lot. One thing that we do and you might not think there's a lot of innovation in law firms or innovation in what we do as librarians but there really is. We take all different types of things and try to connect them in different ways for the attorneys. So we take a database. We just got this really fantastic new database called deal point data. And what our job is not to just show the attorneys how to use it what to use it for but to think of ways that we can capture all of that information. Combine it in different ways and then the output how are we going to help them understand the analysis understand the data use that for the clients. So that's why we're here for legal innovation. You know this the second quote is it's it's all about staying true to the patents of human intake ingenuity and it guided us for money. It's about experimenting with new ideas and new products. It's about testing and finding out what works and what doesn't. And that's what we do. We try to we all work together to figure out what works. Sometimes we all work together better than other times. And I'm alone that quite a bit because people tend to get very narrow focused in on what they do and they try not to think big picture. So whenever whatever jobs you take on make sure you always think how does what I do fit into the big picture. How does what I do make what the department or what the team do relevant to the users. Okay. Are we ready for the next slide. Yes. Thank you. Okay. And what we do and who we are and what we've been called has changed a lot. Looks like it's not forwarding. Let's try this. There we go. Yeah. We need to get all the graphics on there though. Let's do the next and see if it works this way. Sorry folks. I usually use Google slide and I usually have someone else doing the slides for me when I present. So I'm getting a great practical. But what's in the name we you know there's a lot of controversy that we take library out of what we do out of librarianship. But it really is. I think one of the issues is that library is the connotation of what we do that we are a keeper of books. We are so much more than the keeper of books where the keepers of information where the original knowledge managers. You know that's a key term and people are becoming knowledge managers and this knowledge management legal innovation. But in reality librarians are the first knowledge managers we help people we manage the knowledge we help people find the knowledge we help people and utilize the knowledge. What do we do we're a service so we ended up changing our name to research services because we wanted people to stop thinking about us as just the keepers of the books because we're so much more than that. And you probably see some familiar titles on here. But then really a lot of these are just a reimagining of those older titles. And the reason for that is that a lot of us and then also a lot of other firms have been very deliberate deliberate about updating titles to fit the changing job the nature of how quickly the work that we do changes. So names or titles have morphed into kind of a broader category to capture all that like Jen just said. You know it doesn't really make a lot of sense in our in what we're doing to have the title librarian because we're just the the research team is just doing so much more than that. And same thing with my my team. We started out as information resources and everybody just assumed that meant we were it. But really what we're doing is we're managing the resources that the library owns. And because that encompasses so many different types of resources it may be software. It may be books. It may be research databases. It's a lot of different types of content. So that's why you're seeing a lot of different titles now in in the legal field. And I think that's going to morph into other forms of librarianship as well, especially I think in academia. So don't be scared off by a title that you see for if you're looking for a job and you see something like, you know, legal technologist if you are tech savvy librarian and that's something that looks kind of intriguing. Look into it see what the see what the you know the the qualifications are because you'll be surprised that you'll you'll recognize a lot of the the the roles that you're already doing in some of these job descriptions. Okay, can you move forward Sheila. Yes. We're getting our other our other titles. You just tell me should I keep going. Yeah, yeah till it fills. So, so the day in the life this is this is what we do we research all day long. It's not the only thing we do but it's the majority of what we do. We, I have a team of eight. We're in three, one in Hong Kong one in Paris one in London and the rest are in the US. And we handle close to 11,000 requests a year and some requests take 10 minutes. Some requests take three hours some requests take a week. It really does run the gambit and to be honest we never get the same request twice. We get variations on a theme but every request we get is different because all different types of law have different fact patterns whatever the problem is there's a different fact pattern, which might be similar to something we did before but very very different. I have to say we never get boring. Nothing is ever boring about what we do. We have a lot of training. As Leona mentioned, we have a lot we have hundreds of resources. None of them work the same. None of them use the same search terms none of them use the same way to print things out. None of them will organize the same there is no consistency in databases. So we have to train the attorneys and provide them with knowledge I say training went in a lot of times that's reminding them that we've licensed something that they can use because there are so many things that they forget. I had an apartment once and I know I share the story with Leona but it still irks me and a partner wants in the Chicago office and said we have to get this service have to get it it's the it's the brand new thing we must get it. Got it trained people on it made sure it was information was out there about it about a year later emails me is do we have this and he was the guy who asked for it. So you have to remember when you're working for anybody who ever your customer is there in their world and they want something in that moment, and then they don't need it and then they forget about it. So we're constantly reminding people about what we have. We do tons of special projects. And what's a special project Leona mentioned briefly 50 state surveys. So that's where they want to know what the war is in every state for something in particular. Recently we had a question where they want 50 states they had about 30 states, but they wanted to know, could an employer randomly demand that they be allowed to look at your iPhone, the contents of your iPhone. And we had to help them figure out what these particular states said about that in the law. Sometimes that's in statutes and legislation sometimes it's not written there and sometimes it's case law and they're finding that needle in a haystack so those things take a little time. We create current awareness. We have so many resources that sometimes they don't want to read five different newsletters, or the newsletter isn't exactly what they want. They want to search within the newsletter so we use something called Lexis news desk to create current awareness, so that we can combine resources, we can create these spoke newsletters that are particularly to industry, or they want to follow a case, or a judge. So it enables us to do that. We do lots of legislative history and we follow legislation for them. There's really very product called statescape where we follow tons of legislation, and we put that again that's part of a special project into a spreadsheet, or we let them know about it, or we help them analyze what does this mean for a particular industry. We had a legislation that was just passed in New York that's going to severely affect landlords. It has to do with having new buildings in New York City. So now they're trying to figure out how is this going to affect their clients. So we have to help them figure out ways so that they can help their clients figure out how to handle this new law. New attorney orientation, we've had lately a lot of new attorneys, so we have to show them, you know, this is how we do things here. This is what's available and constant follow up. We do alerts, case law alerts, news alerts, they want to follow a particular company and they want to make sure that their clients not getting into trouble or not being written about in a certain way. And we troubleshoot login issues, although we troubleshoot them, but most of the time, Leana's group troubleshoot them. We a lot of times find them because we're using the information and we try to figure out, you know, the basic stuff. But, you know, a lot of times that's something that, you know, we'd be in trouble if Leana's team was on top of things. We had just two of them today and we're lucky if we don't go a day without some sort of issue with the logons. So, it's never a boring job. It's always something different. And it's always with the mind of helping the attorneys help their clients. So that's our ultimate goal is to make sure that they can provide the best service for their clients. Sheila, can you go to the next slide? Let's do it. And there are sadly, there are several bullet points. I'm so sorry. There's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Oh, you got it. That's it. Oh, thank you. Thank you. All right. So, as I mentioned, my team, we go by practice resources and we are part of the legal solutions team within the practice innovation department. And I know that's a lot of words of the big mouthful. But what we, what it all boils down to is my team's responsible for managing the resources that everyone uses, not just the lawyers, because it could be a paralegal that uses it. It could be a business development team member that uses the resources. You know, it could be really anybody. We have, Jen was talking about all the different resources and training on them. We manage almost 300 different contracts for resources. So that gives you kind of an idea of the large scope of tools that we have available. And that's going to run the gamut from anything from a single user license because an attorney has like a really specific niche topic that they are involved in. And so we just have something just for them all the way up to the large databases like a Lexus or Westlaw, which are the two biggies in the legal industry where it covers resources for everybody in the firm. So my team's responsible for managing those resources, making sure that the end user, regardless of what their role at the firm is, that they have access to those issues or to those resources, whether that be a user name and a password, whether that be IP authenticated so that they can access it if they're on the firm's network, or if it is a software technology that they download onto their computer and then access it that way. As part of that, we also manage the budget and negotiate contracts. So a huge chunk of my job is actually negotiating contracts with vendors, working with the attorneys when a renewal is coming due. We always talk to the attorneys. We run usage reports, you know, all the background that you have to do before you move forward with purchasing or renewing a product. There is a lot of negotiations. I'm almost sorry I didn't go to law school. I do so much contract negotiations and I'm not a pro at legal ease, but yeah, it's very interesting to do. While I, as we said, we are definitely have a very small book collection, there still are books and we still do have to also manage those subscriptions. We do also have offices in other countries where the electronic resources are not as robust as the ones that we have in the US. So sometimes those offices have to be more reliant on having print resources and sometimes the way that they do do law, you know, it requires them to have books. One thing we didn't mention at the beginning and that was remiss of us is we work for a very large global law firm. We have offices in the United States, Europe and Asia. So it's a very large purview that we have and we consequently have to manage resources for other countries and negotiate contracts in other languages and so on. So that is, as I said, it's a huge chunk of the process. We work with the contracts team on contracts working. We work with the attorneys on the process. So as Jen said, you know, people come on board or or they just hear about something new and exciting and they want to have it. And they think, you know, it's a snap of the fingers and it's going to be implemented at the firm. But there's a very large review process that has to go through, products have to go through before they can come on board. So a big part of our job is also setting expectations with with either the attorneys or the staff member that's asked for a resource. You know, I spend a lot of time talking with people about why you can't have this tomorrow. Or, you know, why you can't have this at all in some cases. So that that's definitely an interesting aspect of the role. Also, as Jen said, we do a lot to ensure that people have access to content. And that is done in a myriad of ways, whether it be troubleshooting ID issues, whether it be troubleshooting websites. It's why, you know, is it is the website just down, you know, that it's just a problem on the website and is it a problem with our network. And so we do spend a lot of time with that. And along with that, we also spend time educating the attorneys in how things are changing and how the technology that they're using is, you know, how to use it in a safe way. Jen mentioned something about chat GBT, which you may have seen in the news. That's like the hot new thing in everything really quite honestly, not just the legal field. But when you're at a law firm, and you're dealing with client information, you have to be concerned about confidentiality and say huge, huge thing. So it's not like, you know, you shouldn't just be going to Google or going to chat GBT to answer a question because we could be violating client confidentiality. So we have to spend a fair amount of time educating people on that too. You'd also be surprised how much time we have to educate the lawyers on copyright law. You cannot copy an entire book and take it in your office. So these are the kinds of fun things that we get to do, but also Or you cannot, you cannot buy copies of things copy them and create your own database. Yes, that was a question we had one time as well. So that's, that's some of the things my team does. We also do the typical back end pieces of any kind of library, any kind of library work we process invoices. We make purchases, etc. So it's a lot and then there are a lot of varied projects that we do. But I, I'd say that managing access and bringing resources on are the two huge, huge pieces for the practice resources team. And Sheila, you can move forward. Okay, we have about seven points for this Sheila. Sorry about that. I'm on the case, no worries. Thanks for your patience everyone. A lot of these skills you're going to see you really could use it any career to be honest. One of the major, major things and why I put it first is writing and communication skills and you don't have that. And you're going to run into a lot of problems. It's amazing to me when I'm interviewing the lack of someone's ability to communicate their thoughts to you, whether it be in writing or whether it be in verbally or in an email. And this is one thing I want all of you to think about is you can't write an email like you do to your friends when you're communicating information about a request. You have to tell somebody what you did, why you did it and what you found, because they weren't there in your mind when you were doing the research. You have to share with them that you understand what they're talking about. This is what you found you understand the context, and you have to explain it in a way that they're confident in you and what you're doing. So really focus in on your ability of written communications. And while one-on-one communication is great verbally, you're going to find that in most jobs, you're going to have to respond in a written way. So it's going to be really important that you have those skills right up front. Critical thinking. You have to make decisions. This is not brain surgery. It's not the end of the world if it's not perfect. But you have to have really good critical thinking about how to find things, read a book, so that when you explain yourself and it may not be exactly on point, the attorneys or whomever you're working for get the gist of that. Problem solving. Think things through and think about things in a logical way. Do you want to talk about a few of these, Leana? Yeah, we don't have to touch on every one of them, but desire to learn outside your daily tasks. Certainly for me, that has been one of the key things and something that has applied to my team as well. In that we're always getting asked to do new projects, expand our skill sets, and it's really great because it keeps us sharp, it keeps our mind focused, and we learn new skills that we might not have had before. So it's really important to have that desire to constantly look, seek, find, do something different. And not be afraid to make mistakes at it while you're learning, and obviously this serves you well in any job that you do. And then, you know, use your imagination. I think we mentioned something a little bit at the beginning about big picture, looking at the big picture. It's really easy when you're doing your day to day tasks to get very focused on what you're working on and, you know, just kind of the daily grind. But don't be afraid to like, you know, I don't like the term think outside the box, but it's unfortunately it's the most applicable thing to say about it. Don't be afraid to look at different ways to do things. That was one of the biggest ways that we restructured our department is that everybody was willing to not keep doing things the status quo, but to not be afraid to take a chance and do something a different way. And I know that's scary and hard sometimes, but, you know, the worst that happens is if it doesn't work out, you go back to doing it the old way that you used to do it. So again, these will apply to anything that you do in your current job or, you know, any job that you may decide to do. One of the really big ones for me is also knowing what you don't know. That will take you very far and it's funny, it's right next to confidence. You have to have the confidence in your job, but you also have to know when you need help. That's really important. Know your limitations. Know what you don't know. Understand that someone else might know a little more. If you're doing anything and even if you think you're sure, but especially in the beginning say, you know, I did X, Y and Z. Do you have any other suggestions? Not only do you open yourself up to learning something new from somebody, but you also are, it's a good check to say, okay, no, you did everything great. That's exactly what I would have done. So really bear that in mind that there's a lot that you don't know. There's a lot I still don't know. And I'm willing to reach out to Leanna and ask her, you know, I did X, Y and Z. What do you think? Because then I might learn something, but I also then are confident in that, okay, I did everything that I can do to solve the problem to answer the question. Next slide Sheila. Okay. So this next slide. We're going to share a couple of things that are things that you do in your day to day work that sometimes there's classes along these lines and sometimes there's not when you're when you're doing library school, but these are the kind of key areas that for me in particular really are the tasks or the things that I do on a regular basis and the things I need to be good at to do my job. And some of this I, you know, I take classes after I finished library school, I take classes, I do webinars, professional development attend conferences. So these are kinds of areas that are important really in any type of librarianship that you're going to go into. And, you know, power of collaboration that's that's one that is really hard to do and I imagine you guys are experienced with that having to do your tennis school that you're doing everything online and your team projects and it's rough at first. It takes some time to get to get used to working with with a team. But it really is invaluable. Just kind of touching back on what Jen just said about in knowing what you don't know. Just kicking something around, picking up the phone and talking to someone or emailing and saying, Hey, you know, what do you think about this. The more minds you put together the more fantastic. And I'm going to put the book. I'm plugging the book, because it's called rebel ideas, the power of diverse thinking by Matthew side. And I really it's not going to show you but I highly recommend that for anybody starting out in any type of work. And it talks just about what the honor was talking about the power of diverse thinking that with you collaborate with people from all different areas people that you may not think would be someone used to collaborate with or get input from. It's going to make you a better thinker it's going to make you a better decision maker it's going to make you better at your job. So I highly recommend that book I think you'll all find it fascinating. And the other one I really plug because it is truly 90% of our jobs, and that's project management. I can't stress that enough knowing how to run a project knowing how to run a team is so invaluable and you can. You don't even need to take a class and that you can you can go online and Google it and get all kinds of information on on how to run a project but. That will serve you so well it just in anything you do let's say you're working in your local library and you get a grant. An I'm a less grant to. You know, implement a new something new whatever can be as simple as getting new furniture whatever. Being able to know how to run the project and fulfill that grant and then consequently. Present on what you've done you know present your final report it's just so invaluable. So if nothing else on this list. That is my number one my number one piece of advice for you and the other is change management understanding how change affects other people. Learning about the cycles of the change management process can really help you with working with people either at your library or on your staff when when something. And you're getting a new ILS for your library that's really hard for people that have been working there for a long time to make that kind of a change it's a big change they don't know what to do. So, again, you don't necessarily have to pay to take a course or anything you can you can do a great Sheila thank you for sharing that. If you guys have the time in your schedule of picking classes you really should do project management and change management it's. The world is full of change that it's libraries aren't the same as they used to be and you've got to be ready to roll with the punches or you're going to get left behind. Did you want to add anything more before we go to our last slide Jen. No, I thought that was a great ending sentence. Well, that was all we had to share and I know it was a lot of information. And I know some of it might have sounded kind of scary or you didn't know what we were talking about so please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions. I hope that we kind of provided a little spotlight on what it's like to work at a law firm. It can be a little hard a little challenging to break into the field as a in the private law library sector law firm sector, but don't let that put you off. Even if you don't necessarily have if this is something that's of interest to you and you want to pursue it after you get your degree. Don't don't let job ads or job descriptions put you off and make you afraid to apply for something. When I went back into the law to the law firm, the job description or the job that I went for had a bunch of things that I didn't know how to do. And I said, oh, I, you know, I can't apply for this. I don't know how to do this. And the head librarian said, no, Liana, you can apply for it. We don't expect you to know how to do everything. As long as you know some of the things that you know that that's great. So don't be afraid of job job descriptions that you see if something sounds good to you, regardless of what field it's in, take a chance apply for it. You never know. I have ever since I was a public librarian and I became the internet librarian. Every job I've had has been a newly developed job. So I've gone into completely new, new roles in every job that I've done since getting my degree. And it's been the best thing I ever did. And it was because I wasn't afraid to take a chance and try something that might have been outside of my wheelhouse. And that's all I have to say. Does anybody have any questions? And also remember that job descriptions is a wish list. It doesn't mean that I need everything. And I'll be honest, some of my best hires were people that probably would not have been hired other places because I saw in them. Some of the exact same skills or things about them that would fit made them a great fit for the job and I was willing to train them. So just apply for something of interest. We have some comments coming in. Now, either of you have like advice as far as finding law librarianship or knowledge management type of internships for people who want to taste what it's like to work in this field. Well, there's the double A double L the American Association of more librarians. They post things, but I believe they also have internships as well. They have a job one, but there is also if you reach out to them, they may be able to help you get an internship. I know there's a lot of law firms that hire for the summer will hire for hire you for a month or two. So, you know, even if you have law firms in your area and you send a reach out to them and say, you know, do you have an internship? Are you willing to hire me as an intern? Sometimes that's very helpful. And then there's local associations. I know in New York, we have lag me the law librarians of greater New York and California. What is it so Cal? It's the Southern California Association of Law Librarians. Yeah. Yeah. S C A L L. Yep. So, you know, it just use your your Googling and and and and honestly, if you if I got a call from someone and I needed the help, which I actually do now, I might go to my boss and say, Hey, listen, do you mind if I hire an intern for, you know, two months? You know, and sometimes you never know what what's going to happen because it's there was an article recently we're having a difficult time finding people to fill the positions because it's not something people think about. They think about being a lawyer. They don't think about doing what we do and and what we do is to me the best part of being a lawyer, we get to do all the fun stuff and we get our weekends free. You know what I mean? And we don't have to get called in the middle and right to do, you know, the law stuff, but we do the great stuff. We do the fun stuff. We do the puzzles and the games and getting the information and digging through everything. So, you know, it's just be open and and and try to think about what interests you about whatever job it is. And certainly feel free to reach out to us if you have any further questions. And I need for us. Well, I'm looking to see if there are any more questions from our attendees. And thank you for sharing your email address in the chat and also the law library and organizations URL. Fantastic. Let's wait. We've got a couple more minutes we can wait and see if any more questions roll in. I was going to ask you both if the coven 19 had shifted either of your positions to more remote work or how that looks in your industry. Yeah, definitely. We obviously went fully remote and thankfully we were all doing things where because we had moved away from print. We were able to do that. You know, very quickly and very easily. And at this point, we're working hybrid as many law firms are. We don't have any real requirements. I think ideally they'd like us to be in 3 days a week, but most of us don't do that. And some departments are fully remote. You know, so it sort of depends. But we prior to COVID, we had a somewhat flexible schedule anyway, and we were able to work from home. We all pretty much worked a couple days from home. But yeah, it's become more lenient now and most law firms are following the hybrid schedule because there's a what they call a war on talent. And that is a perk now of going somewhere. People don't want to go into the office 5 days. Some people do, I'm sure, but most people don't want to have to do that because most people have a commute or maybe they have a family and small children. So having the flexibility law firms have recognized that that is a perk and most of them are taking advantage of that and sticking with that kind of hybrid approach. And really, while it's wonderful to go into the office and see people, I was, we had a departmental meeting today. So a lot of us went into the office and that's great. And, you know, it's always nice to visit with people in person. The reality is most of our jobs just don't require us to be in the office. We didn't really see the attorneys anywhere anyway. We don't sit on the floors with the attorneys. So it's not like, you know, there's a face that they expect to see every day. They already were just emailing us. Yeah. And we sit in open areas. So it's not like we have a lot of privacy to begin with. And like Liana said, our team was so we were able to pivot like there was nothing. It was seamless for us because everything we do is on the computer. And we don't really deal with books at all anymore. So for us, it was about training everybody else and getting them up to speed, the ones that maybe were not as quite familiar with it as they were. But it's actually helped show the firm that it's really not necessary for us to be there. Although, like Liana said, sometimes they want us there for no good particular reason. All right. Well, thank you both so much for sharing your wisdom and especially your time with us here this evening. It was very valuable to spend this time with you together. I'm sure if folks are able to see the meeting chat or our survey is available now. The link is available in our chat for those who are bridging knowledge students that would like to give your feedback. Again, thank you to Liana and Jennifer for this evening. The recording of this webinar will be up on the bridging knowledge YouTube playlist in a few weeks. And so hopefully you can check it out there if you would like to catch any more of the tips that were shared on the slide. So thanks to you both and thanks and everyone have a wonderful rest of your evening. Thank you so much Sheila. Good night.