 Now, today we will begin with, we said that we would like to discuss a few points about publishing and patenting. So, this is the outline of what I am going to discuss. So, what is the meaning of a paper and a patent? Relative importance of various publications, stages in publishing and patenting, structures of papers and patents and writing of papers and patents. So, what is a paper and what is a patent? It is important to understand that the goals of publishing and patenting are very different. Normally, publishing is meant to disseminate some discovery that you have, some new contribution that you have made to as many people as possible. So, disseminate this information so that others can utilize it freely. Publishing on the other hand, its purpose is to claim some sort of exclusivity to your idea and to ensure that anybody else who uses your idea has to pay for it and make some royalty payment or something like that to you. So, publishing and patenting their purposes are different. Relative importance of various publications is publishing important, is publishing more important than patenting, what is the relative importance of these and then even in publishing you have different types of papers, you have journal papers, in journals you have full length papers, then short papers, you have letters, you have conference publications and so on. So, it is important to know what is the relative importance of these, for an industry patenting may be more important than publishing, because industry makes products and gets profit for selling their product. On the other hand, for scientists publishing may be more important than patenting, because often scientists want to disseminate knowledge that they have gathered freely and do not want to claim any profits for whatever they have discovered or invented, depends on people. For people in academic institutions like universities and so on, publishing is definitely very very important. However, sometimes while doing their research, they might come up with something that can be directly applied and converted into a product, in such cases they might also patent their work. So, relative importance of publication, a publication has a value only if it goes through what is called a peer review process. So, for instance, when you send paper to a conference, very often the review process is not that strict, so a large number of papers are accepted for presentation in conference without really a critical evaluation of their content, that is why in general conference publications are less regarded than general publications. Now, if there are conferences which are highly reputed and where a large number of people send their contributions and the acceptance rate is very low, for instance in some conferences it can be that only 25 percent of the contributions are accepted. In such a case, the review process may be furrow and such conference publications may have a value, but such conferences are very very rare and few, so by and large one can say that conference publications are less regarded than general publications and this is because of the thoroughness of the review process. Now, there are journals which nowadays which allow you to publish your material at some cost, so you make a payment and then the journal publishes your work, again in such a case since the review process is not thorough such journal even if these are general publications they will not be regarded highly, they will not have a value. Now, there is also what is called a reputation for a journal, like you have reputation for universities and so on, you have a reputation, so definitely it is more difficult to publish in more reputed journals. Now, what is the reputation of a journal is generally known to experts within a community, so it is not so easy for people outside that community to know about these reputations. Nowadays people are talking about a number called impact factor, so every journal rather most journals have an impact factor associated with it, basically it is a number that shows how many people are citing your work, it is a measure of how many people or rather how many how often does the journal get cited in various publications, so the impact factor of a journal depends on how often the journal gets cited in various publications. On the other hand there is also what is called a citation index which tells you how often your paper has been cited by other researchers, so impact factor can be regarded as some sort of an average averaging of the citations of various authors. Now, can you compare journals based on impact factor alone, this is a important question. Now, you cannot compare journals based on impact factor which are not in the broadly the same area, for instance an engineering journal will normally have less impact factor than a science journal by and large, impact factors of science journals tend to be higher than those of engineering journals. And impact factors of journals in the area of medicine happen to be even higher, therefore if I try to compare a journal an engineering journal of a particular impact factor and a science journal of the same impact factor it will be incorrect for me to infer that both these journals are of the same level or same reputation. Therefore impact factor should be used carefully, supposing I am working in the area of semiconductor devices then I should compare the impact factors of various journals in that area that can give me some idea of the relative reputation of the various journals. Therefore one cannot even say that make a statement such as you know you must publish in journals which are impact factor of say more than 0.5 such a statement cannot really be made because it depends on which area you are working in. So, please avoid this kind of misconceptions. So, just talk to experts in your particular area of research and then from them you know what are the reputation of various journals that is as far as the relative importance of various publications. Now I should also discuss about another aspect namely nowadays there are what are called letters journals that is publications which claim that you know they take invite short articles, but which have contributions of high significance and which need rapid publication. If you get a publication in a letter journal it is regarded highly because letter journals normally publish work which is of current importance to a large number of people and which is very significant. Now let us go on to the next topic that is stages in publishing and patenting. So, first you must choose an appropriate journal for your work. So, normally it is not that you decide a particular journal and then do research to publish in that journal it is other way around. So, you decide a good problem to work on and then when you are working on that problem or when you are trying to formulate that problem you would have read a lot of literature and that will give you an idea of what kind of work is being published in which journal. Now you do your research and then you try to see the kind of research that you have done which journal has it been published. So, one way of deciding that would be you will give references for your work when you write up your work as a paper. Just see which journal is being referenced more often in your work probably that journal is appropriate journal to be considered for submission of your work. So, this is how one chooses a journal. Choice of journal is important because depending on which journal you send your paper and where it gets accepted it will decide what will be the audience for your work. It does happen that sometimes you send a paper to a journal and then the editor sends it back to you saying that probably our journal is not the right place to publish your work you send this paper to some other journal. Then the next step is manuscript preparation and submission. Now manuscript preparation this takes a lot of time how long does it take to write a paper. Actually no guidelines can be given in this regard particular guidelines people can take even months to write a paper. On the other hand some papers can be written up may be within the course of a week it is possible to write up some work. So, it all depends on you know what kind of work it is and when you write your manuscript whether you get some new ideas and whether you locate some loose ends in the work in which case you would like to if you find some loopholes you would like to plug them do more work and then complete the writing of the paper. So, that is why you know it can take anywhere between a week at one extreme to you know months and the other extreme to write up a paper. Now writing a paper itself is in some way like you know writing a thesis there are many things which are common to both. So, we have discussed about this thesis writing a little bit yesterday or to repeat a few points normally it is a good practice whenever you are preparing a paper to first complete the preparation of all the figures. So, often people do not know you know how do you start writing a paper or how do you start writing your thesis. So, it is good practice to first complete the preparation of figures once you have prepared the figures. So, preparation of figures means that we also tell you what kind of experiments you are going to report in your paper and how you are going to arrange your data what inclusions will be drawn and things like that. So, around the figures all these ideas are there. So, after you have prepared the figures you know then you start writing. Now even when you write it is good practice to first write the main part of the paper you know the paper has various sections like title abstract then introduction then may be a review then may be details of the experiment experimental setup then interpretation of data and then conclusion. So, if it is a modeling related work you may you know give the model as the main body of your in the main body of your paper. So, it is a good practice write the main body of the paper. So, in other words for instance the interpretation of data that is the most crucial part of the paper in a experimental work. So, it would be a good idea to write that up first. So, it is you may you first decide the title of your work that is fine, but it is not that you must first write the abstract and then write the introduction because that is the order in which these sections appear in a paper. So, paper need not be written in the same order in which finally it is presented. So, once you write the main body then one can write the introduction then one can after that one can complete the conclusion and after all this thing is done finally write the abstract ok. The abstract is done right because abstract contains all that all the important things points in your paper. There are some certain differences between abstract and conclusion. Yesterday I have already told you that there is a difference between summary and conclusion ok. Conclusion is very very crisp summary on the other hand is a repetition of important points in the paper ok. Now, the abstract is normally much bigger than the conclusion because abstract should contain what you intended to do how you did it and what are the results you got. Whereas, conclusion is only what is the take away from your paper ok. So, that is as far as manuscript preparation is concerned. One more important point if it is possible you can have someone who is not in your area to read the work and see whether he can make some sense out of it and get a feel for what is the significance of the work you have done. So, if you find that a non expert in your area is not able to make anything out of your paper then probably it is not a well written paper ok. So, that is the way to decide whether a paper is well written or not. Now, after the manuscript is submitted to a journal it will go through the review process. So, generally at least two or three reviewers will be used. There are some journals which use only one reviewer because they get a very large number of papers. They are not able to use more than one reviewer for their work, but normally it is a good practice to have more than one reviewer for your work because in all creative activity the judgments are subjective. So, it is not like you know examine your course based education where you have examinations which have a single answer. So, if different people correct the same paper they will assign more or less the same marks. However, in judgment of creative activity often subjectivity enters into the picture. Someone may find a particular work very significant and on the other hand some other person may find it not significant ok. So, in fact it is very difficult to have an objective view on these topics on these issues. If you do an internet search you will find for example, you can do a google search on this. So, Nobel prize winning works rejected when they were submitted for publication for the first time ok. You can do a search on this and you will get a list of such papers which were submitted and were rejected by reviewers. So, first time they were submitted, but later on they got published and then you know they were found to be very very significant. So, in the review process what your reviews you get are subjective opinions of the reviewers. If two or three reviewers agree on the value of your work meaning they might either agree that your work is valuable or if they disagree if all of them agree that your work has no value in both these cases decision is very simple paper is accepted or rejected right. But very often what happens is the review will not be uniform. So, different people will have different views. So, this is what is this is what happens in normally right there is something very normal. So, if you get a review where different reviewers have given you different opinions you should not feel that it is unusual and is happening only with you. Now, in accordance with the review comments you will be asked to revise your manuscript whether you should revise your manuscript and send it back to the journal depends on what kind of reviews you have got. Now, if you find that the reviewers are not making any positive comments about your work and only saying that you know your work is not useful and these are the technical flaws in it and so on. Then you should be careful in attempting a repeat submission to the same journal. Maybe it is not a good idea you should take those comments into account and modify your work to answer those doubts and maybe send it elsewhere. On the other hand if the reviewers have made some positive comments, but say that you know there is same there are some still gaps in your work and probably if you plug them then it will be suitable for publication. In such cases you should revise the work and send it as quickly as possible. So, after the manuscript is revised and submitted then the editor gives you a decision whether the paper is accepted or not until you get an editorial decision on acceptance or reject you should not announce the acceptance or rejection of your work to your colleagues and others. So, often it happens that based on the review you make up your mind whether the paper is going to accepted or not and then you end up telling everybody around. Some few rare cases it does happen that editorial decision that comes can be unexpected. So, until you get a decision editorial decision from the editor about the work you should not regard the decision as final. And then it goes through some stages like you have to submit the copyright form and your paper is given to you for proof reading. It is very important to proof read your work carefully and remove all the mistakes and then finally it is published. Stages in patenting what are the stages in patenting? Now while papers are submitted to journals directly the author can submit to the editor. In patenting you normally approach an attorney. Attorney is nothing but a lawyer who is well versed in the aspects of patenting. So, the attorney helps you to you know word your prepare a proper language for expressing your contribution. So, it is a very carefully prepared language. The goal of which is to expand the scope of your work as much as possible or rather the I should say the yes I think we can say that it the language is such that it tries to expand the scope of your work right. Now there is a particular language this is different from that used in publications. So, attorney knows this language very well. So, you go to the attorney and you say that this is what is your new idea and this is what you want to patent which means that you want to say that if anybody else is going to make any profit out of an idea like this then that person should give some royalty to you because you are the first person to have got that idea and then you want your rights on that. So, after manuscript preparation and submission even here there is a review when appropriate people and then you have revision and finally you have a decision whether your patent is accepted or not. So, the main difference between publishing and patenting is the legal issues are much more in patenting. So, writing of papers and patents, structure of papers and patents. The patents also have some sort of some commonality to the structures as papers. I think what you can do is you can do a internet search and please locate a patent and a paper in your area and then you try to compare their structures and see how the language differs in papers and patents. This is an assignment. I will now show you as an example because review process is very very important in both publishing and patenting. I will show you a kind of review form that is used in one of the journals. Similar forms are used by others also though not exactly the same form, but similar forms. So, they tells you when you are writing your manuscript what are the things that you must be careful about and what are the things on which based on which the acceptance on your paper will depend. So, this is the review form of a journal called applied physics letters. So, this is an area in which many physicists and physicists, chemists and engineers try to publish their work. It is a reputed journal. Also, it is a journal that publishes papers rapidly as you can see from the word letters. So, these are short papers of 3 to 4 page length and but which report work which is of current interest to a large community of scientific and engineering researcher and which require rapid publication. So, let us see what are the points on which this journal decides whether to accept a manuscript or not. So, is this first point is a subject of the paper interesting to applied physics community. So, these are yes no kind of answers this question. Does the paper contains sufficient physics as opposed to recipes or fabrication procedures. Device proposal without substantial experimental support are unacceptable for publication in applied physics letters. What this means is supposing you have thought of new device, but you are not fabricated the device and you have only done simulation and then you want to show that simulations are promising. This kind of work will not be acceptable in applied physics letters, but there may be other journals in which it can be accepted. Is the paper original? So, extension of recent work or serial submission is designed solely to meet length requirement or not suitable for publication in APL. So, submissions designed solely to meet length requirements. So, this means supposing you have some work and then you find that you cannot write it up in 3 pages which is the constraint of the journal. You let us say you find that you require 6 pages to write your work. Then you cannot split it into 2-3 page papers. That sort of a thing will not be accepted because then that work will not be of any significance. Is the paper of high scientific quality? Is the paper especially important and timely enough to warrant rapid publication in applied physics letters? So, this is the criterion for publication in letters journals. So, it should be especially important and timely. Is the paper well organized and clearly written? Is sufficient information included or cited to support the assertions made and conclusions drawn? Is the paper free from errors, misceptions or ambiguities? Is the title appropriate? Does the abstract include the important points of the paper? Is the English satisfactory or references related to the work adequate? Nowadays, adequate referencing is an important criterion that journals are using to decide on publication. For instance, even if the work is good, if you have not adequately acknowledged the other people who have made contributions in the same area, then they are using it as a criterion to reject the work. So, you must take care to properly acknowledge all the sources. Are tables figures and their captions clear? Thereafter, you have an overall rating on a scale like this which goes from poor to excellent. So, poor, fair, good, very good, excellent and then you always have a scope for providing subjective detailed remarks. So, every paper review form will have this. It is this portion that is of great importance to the authors, because it is from the remarks that you can see what is the way the reviewer's mind is working and why is he making the, how is he giving the rating of your paper. So, you must pay particular attention to the remarks column during revision and make references to the remarks made to explain to the reviewer how you have included all his comments and concerns in your revised manuscript. Now, the possible recommendations, so final recommendation of the reviewer here is published in, applies thesis letters as it is, published in applied thesis letters with optional revision. Optional revision means the reviewer feels, if you make the revision, the paper will improve in quality, but it is not particular that you must do it. If you feel that revision is not required, you need not revise. Publish in applied thesis letters with mandatory revision, minor, minor revision, reconsider for publication in applied thesis letters after mandatory revision major. So, normally a paper will be accepted only if the revision required are minor. If the work is good, but still requires major revisions, normally they will say that the paper is rejected, but you can revise and resubmit. That is what the editor will tell you that we will accept a resubmitted paper and, but it will go through the review process again. Often if the revisions are minor or optional, then the paper is not sent back to the reviewer, the editor checks whether you have done those revisions or not. Check if you want to see the revised version, reject. These are other possible decisions on your paper, recommendations on your paper. Recommend referral to another journal. So, this is a form which we should give you an idea of what are the various dimensions on which a technical paper or a scientific contribution is judged. So, with this I will conclude my session on publishing and patenting. Let me take a few comments or questions. What are the institute of technology? Yes, Dr. Kashyat, can I? Yes, we have one question. Can we take? So, what is the importance of open access journals? And what is the importance of paid journals? I have already told you that paid journals, the important thing is whether the papers are going through a review process or not, a thorough review process or not. That is the thing based on which the reputation of a journal is decided. So, you should check whether a journal has a thorough review process. That is the important point. Now, if there is a journal which tries to compensate for the review process by payment, it says that we will not be very tight on the review and so on. We will be little bit you know lenient on that, but you will have to make a payment and then we will accept the work. You pay for it and then you accept. Then that is not a good idea. Now, it is a fact that a new paradigm in publishing is being tried out in recent, very recent years where they say that you know everything is available on internet. So, you know why do a thorough review or anything like that? It all depends on whether others are interested in your work. You just upload it on the internet. If others are interested, then they will use your work. Otherwise, they will not use. So, there is a new paradigm that is being tried out, these open access journals and all. This is a new paradigm. So, you know at this point, I do not have sufficient experience with this to say how the new open access thing is going to work out. It is possible that it may become popular, it may get accepted. I am not able to make a comment on that. What I would say is, as now a thorough review process is what we are looking for. Review papers can be written in the starting phase of PhD depending on literature survey or in the completion phase of PhD which we have did the work with respect to others. Over to you. What you are saying is whether you must write a paper in the beginning phase of your PhD or towards the end after you have completed your work. Now, I have some difficulty with the question itself because beginning phase after you have done literature survey, you cannot write a paper because as I have said, any paper is something that contains an original contribution. That is why I showed you the review form. What are the aspects on which the paper is accepted in a journal for publication? Now, if you have only done literature review, see there are only two types of papers which you can call as survey or review papers. I think survey papers and review papers more or less they mean the same thing. Either that sort of a paper or paper in which you report an original contribution. A review paper will normally summarize the significant contributions in the area. Normally review papers are all invited papers by and large. That is unless you have established yourself as a great expert in an area, they will not solicit or accept a review paper by you because they feel that only an established expert knows about all developments in the area. So, only such a person if he or she writes a review then it will be authentic. So, journals normally do not accept review papers from researchers who are not established. So, therefore, for a PhD scholar it is unlikely that your review paper will be accepted even if you write a review paper. In a full length paper that you write, you may include a review portion. You may include a short review of the work as a part of your full length paper which should report an original contribution made by you. So, does that answer your question? Yes sir. Thank you. So, there is one more question. What is the cost involved in patenting? Cost involved in patenting. To file a patent normally what happens is there is a to keep a patent alive you must make some payments. So, for example, to keep a patent alive for 15 years let us say there is a certain amount. I forget the exact amount it is close to 10,000 or something like that 10,000 rupees. So, normally after a patent is accepted depending on how many years you want to keep it alive there is a certain amount of money that you have to pay. What the attorneys do is they say that when you are filing a patent you pay about 50 percent of that. So, there are attorney costs also because the lawyer it is like a lawyer you know helping you to get the patent. So, there are costs that you have to pay to the attorney or to the lawyer. Now, this is something that is not required in publishing because the patenting has profits and so on the money involved is normally high. There is one more question sir. Is there any difference between Indian patents and US patents and how do we compare them? Yeah. See what is the meaning of an Indian patent? Normally patents are of limit patents are applicable in a limited geographical entity. So, when you file an Indian patent what it means is within India if there is anyone trying to utilize your idea then that person will have to pay you. A US patent means it is a patent filed in the US and therefore anybody in the United States if it or she tries to use that idea we will have to make the payment. So, if you file a US patent from India then it means that you do not want anybody in the United States to use your idea without making your payment. So, now it is like this supposing I mean you see your work and if you feel that nobody in India is likely to utilize that idea. But it is only in the United States that somebody might use that idea and then do something because the nature of the idea that you have got is that in that case file your Indian patent may not be of that much use whereas you must file a US patent. But then what happens is how many such patents will you file because you may have to file a German patent, a United States patent and so on. So, if you have to decide where you are like idea is likely to be exploited for commercial purposes and you must file a patent for that country. Thank you sir. Yes, I am happy to connect to NIT Agarkala. My question is related to the patent. Sir, you have explained five stages in the patent so in the review who will be the review authority and who will take the who will do the manuscript revision and who will be the decision taker. Yes, manuscript revision is done by you depending on the comments and there is a patenting authority. For example, in India there is an authority there is a body which will review the patents and that body will decide based on the review give you a decision also. There is a patents authority in India like that there is a patent authority in the United States each country has a body like that. If you do an internet search you will be able to locate. In fact, in Nagpur the patenting authority in India is located in Nagpur. Sir, who will be the decision taker here? Yes, so that authority will decide they will have reviewers and in fact before deciding they will announce that such and such a person wants to patent this does anybody have any objection. There is a publication that comes out from this particular body. In that body all the patents will be announced and then they will wait they will give some amount of time if somebody wants to object and claim that you know that idea already has been proposed by somebody else. So, people can object if there are no objections then the patent is accepted. Sir, in the cost involved in the profit will be bear by move that you have to bear. Now, also I want to say if you are a part of an academic institution it is possible that academic institution may bear the cost right. But then part of your profits will also go to the academic institution. What is the difference between national journal and international journal? Yes, see a national journal means that only people of a particular nation send their work to that journal or the other hand international journal means that you know people from all countries will be sending your work. Now, in principle I think all journals are international but in practice you know only few journals are such that they are known all over the world and therefore, researchers from all over the world will be sending their papers. Sometimes few organizing board is such as societies as their own journals is it international or national? There is a very simple way of deciding whether a journal is national or international. Please take a look at the papers published in that journal if the papers are mostly coming from any particular country then it is a national journal right. Whatever the journal itself may claim that it is international but it depends on who are publishing in that journal. That is a very good practical test to decide whether it is national or international. What does the journal say I SSN number? What does it mean I SSN number? SSN number does not have to do with reputation or anything like that. Some journals does not have impact factor. Yes. What is to publish in those journals which do not have any? See normally journals which are not so well known or which are very recent these two kinds of journals will normally not have an impact factor because after all any journal to build up a reputation it takes time. So it is like very recent if an institute has started very recently it is very difficult to decide what is its reputation. You know you have to see the performance over a few years at least say maybe 5 years to decide what is the status of the journal. So normally if a journal does not have impact factor it means either it is very very recent or it is not so much well known. Thank you very much. Krishna Institute of Engineering and Technology, Ghaziabad. Good morning sir. I am Desh Jauri from Krishna Institute of Engineering and Technology, Ghaziabad. So my first question is whether an idea is patentable or not. The second question is first if somebody just publish some experiment and all a device rather and then only he wants to get the patent done on the model on the running model of that very experiment can it be done or not? Okay let me repeat your question for benefit of other centres. You have asked that can an idea be patented or not? And second if you have already published the details of a device can one get a patent for the model? The same. Okay now please see what is the goal of patenting that is why I said see patent and papers their goals are different. As I said only if there is an issue of commercial exploitation of the idea if an idea has possibilities of commercial exploitation you can make money out of it only then the issue of patenting arises. So if you get some idea and it has no commercial value the idea itself cannot be converted into a product and nobody can make money out of it then there is no point in patenting. So now nobody patents a model of a device because after all can you make money out of the model you cannot okay. So please understand what is the goal of patenting? The goal of patenting is that you have an idea that can be exploited commercially you can make profit out of it. Now you do not want others to make profit out of your idea without paying you some royalty you want to make money out of it and you do not want to let others make too much money out of it. So that is the reason why you patent. Hello sir this is Bhupendra from the same college. Sir I want to ask a question regarding the scope of patent. So my question is if suppose somebody files a patent in India and he gets after some time after the procedure of getting patent so then this patent is valid outside India or not? No it is not valid evidently. So what somebody should do to you can say protect the invention outside the country? That is why it depends on in which country you want to protect. If you want to if you think that people in America will exploit it then you file an American patent okay. So it depends on where all your idea may be exploited. So all those countries you will have to file a patent. Someone asked me whether I can have an international patent actually I am not very conversant with that particular thing I cannot answer that question. Thank you sir for giving time.