 Rhaid adonau i chi wedi'r cyffredinol ar gyfer y Cymru sy'n ei wneud yn ymddangos ar y Cymru, yma'r ysgol yn yng Ngyslwyno, ac mae'r cyfathau i'r cyffredinol wedi'i cyffredinol, yn ymdag, yn ymdag, yn ymdag, fel y cerddau ar y Cymru, ac mae'r cyffredinol yn yr ymdag, a'r cyffredinol yn ymdag, mae'n cyffredinol. Pegalig yr oeddwch yn gysylltu, maen nhw'n mor hwyl ffordd a gwahoddu, fi'n meddwl i'r hollent yn ymweld, gилиw, baterio a phloed. Felly, mae'n meddwl y bydohol efallai yn y fwlad yn cael ei lavwdd. Mae bwysig ydw i'r hynny sy'n meddwl â'r gwahoddu eich hollwch yn y fwlad yma, a chym iechyd yn fawr, ac mae'n mynd i'r hyn i'r ddechrau'r hanfodol i i ddwellu arlawn, ac os ychydig yn ymhwylete iddo, i'r golygu'r cofidol i'n gilydd. For those participating in the meeting who are present in the chamber, your microphones should please be kept switched off unless you are invited to speak. For those participating remotely, when you are invited to address the meeting, please make sure that your microphone and camera are switched on, and then when you finish addressing the meeting, please turn your microphone and camera off immediately. Please, would members who are attending remotely indicate a wish to speak through a chat message in the Teams meeting? Those present in the chamber should indicate their wish to speak by raising their hand, please. I'll ask the Vice-Chair to note the order of speakers both virtually and in the room. The chat facility should not be used for any other purpose except, where necessary, to write down a simple amendment. Complex amendments, of course, should have been shared with democratic services in advance of the meeting. And when we move to a vote on any item, and there is not clear affirmation, I will state that a recorded vote will be taken, and members in the chamber will then vote electronically selecting for, against or abstain, and the result will be displayed on the screens. Officers have confirmed that the meeting is courate, and that we can proceed. So, item 1 on the agenda is Apologies. So, Mr Francis, are there any apologies for absence? Thank you, Chair. We have apologies from councillors Corrine Garvey, Henry Batchelor, Paul Bear Park, Peter MacDonald, Joe Tails, Bridget Smith, William Jackson Wood, Aidan Van Der Wire, Libby Earl and Leanne Annietto. And Ariel Kahn. Thank you. And are there any members? Are there any other apologies? Chair, I didn't hear councillor Jackson Wood. Yes, he was. He was nice to me. And are there any other apologies? Councillor Heather Williams? Just that councillor Batcharia will be late to meeting. Okay, so I'm sure we'll look forward to welcoming her when she can get here. And could I just ask if there are any members who are participating remotely, would you like to put your camera on and... Nope? No, okay, good. So, item 2 is Declarations of Interest. Do any members have interest to declare in relation to any item of business on this agenda? So, councillor Stobart, councillor Heather Williams, councillor Sandford. Would you like to start, councillor Stobart? Thank you, Chair. So, amongst my responsibilities, I'm a director of the two partnerships, South Cambridgeshire Investment Partnership and South Cambridgeshire Projects. And the deliberations of, well, the investment strategy touch on the deliberations of those two partnerships. So, having taken advice from the monitoring officer, I leave for item 9C and not participate. Then you'll leave for item 9C. Okay, thank you. And Heather Williams? Thank you, Chair. Just in relation to item 13, I'm a member of the Greater Cambridge Partnership Assembly. Thank you. And councillor Sandford. Thank you, Chair. Also in relation to item 9C, I'm a non-executive director. I'm a non-executive director of South Cam's Limited Trading as Urban Street Homes and will be leaving the room for that item. Thank you very much. And councillor Leeming? Thank you, Chair. I would like to declare interest in item 10, making a football neighbourhood plan. This section refers to my employer, the wildlife trust, repeatedly. Thank you. Yes, and councillor Hobro. Thank you, Chair. So, through this councillor, I'm also a non-executive director of Urban Street, so I'll be leaving for item 9C. Thank you very much. Okay. So, members, sorry, councillor Fein? Chair, I would declare that I am a director of Char Homes, however, because that is funded through the HRA and not the investment strategy, I do not propose to... Thank you very much. So, members, if, as we get to an item, you realise you might have an interest, please do raise it at that point. So, can I remind members that you need to keep your register of interests up to date and that you should inform democratic services of any changes as they arise? Thank you. So, we'll move on to the minutes, which are on pages 11 to 46 of the agenda, and item 4 seeks to approve the minutes of meeting held on 21 February 2023. So, members, I'm going to go through page by page, so I will try and look up at each one. Pages 1 and 2, okay. Pages, sorry, these are pages 11 and 13 of the agenda. Thank you. Pages 13 and 14, I think there are some issues. Councillor Lisa Redrock. Thank you, Chair. I'd just like to ask if the word the arc could be changed to Oxford-Cambridge partnership near the end of page 13, the final four paragraph, three lines up from the bottom. And if the same change could also be made on page 14 on the sixth line down, where it says the arc now had a website. I think the correction should be to the pan regional partnership, shouldn't it? Yeah, either to Oxford-Cambridge partnership or the pan regional partnership. I'm not exactly sure which one was used. I think it's now called the pan regional partnership. Okay, thank you, Chair. So there are a number of issues. I note that in some of these places, this is reported speech and so arc is appropriate because that's what the person asked. In some of them we're referring to when the arc was set up and it was called the arc then and it's appropriate to leave those as they are. But when we're looking to the future, it's appropriate to refer to it as the pan regional partnership. Sorry, Councillor Williams. John Williams. Thank you, Chair. It's to do with item 8A on page 14, the medium term of our strategy. The first paragraph, fifth line down, we referred to the predicted deficit had been reduced to just over six million. That should be reduced from just over six million at the end of the five-year period to just under four million. Thank you very much, Councillor John Williams. So was there anybody else who raised or wanted to raise anything on page 14? No. So page 15. Okay. Page 16. Okay. Page 17. Page 18. I just wondered whether myself, at 8E, at the bottom of the first paragraph on treasury management strategy, whether the last sentence should read, he assured the council that the administration would ensure that any investments made would be with banks that would not default. So that would be the addition of the word with. Thank you. Moving on to page 19. Page 20. Page 21. Page 22. Page 23. Page 24. Page 24. Oh, 24. Yes, Councillor Flane. At the bottom of page 24, Councillor Heather Williams reminded council, a certain group of men that froze rent at September's council meeting. I suspect that should be that would freeze rent at September's council meeting. Sorry, I was distracted because there's a missing D in there as well. That's why I said reminded. Sorry, were you making a suggestion about the word froze? Or is that right? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Page 25. Sorry. We've all got broad enough shoulders to cope with this. Page 26 then. I've got one on page 27. Which is that under item 11 report of the independent remuneration panel. And the very last sentence on that page says the chair explained this proposal did not. I think we need to delete the word equate require a separate amendment as it equated to voting against the proposed recommendations. And I have another one further down from that, which is one, two, three. It's the second paragraph up above in favour, which reads, it's talking about the leader. It said she supported a modest increase in the allowances. As otherwise, those on lower incomes would be unable to stand to be councils rather than only. Okay. That's page 28. Page 29. Page 30. Page 31. Page 32. Page 33. Page 34. Page 35. Page 36 and 37. Councillor Leaming. Sorry. Thank you, chair. Page 36, the fourth paragraph down. The chair forwarded the motion and thanked councillors for helping her to facilitate the debate. Oh, helping? Yes, lovely. Thank you. Thank you. Right, members. So, we've all proofread the minutes. Are we all happy then with those amendments to approve those minutes then, members? Can I take that by affirmation? Thank you. Lovely. So, moving on. Announcements. I would like to make an announcement, and that is that you may remember at the beginning of this financial year, I nominated the Trustal Trust, the food banks, again, to be my chair's charity. And I'd like to announce that the chair's charity is going to be in a position to make a check to the Trustal Trust to the tune of £1,012.77. So, thank you very much to everybody who contributed to the chair's charity over the time of my chairmanship. So, thank you very much. So, then moving on to Councillor Mills, who I actually can't see. Oh, there you are. Sorry. Can't see for looking. Did you have any announcements on behalf of the leader? No, I have no announcements. Thank you, chair. I'll just wave if you need to. Thank you. I can't see for a minute. Okay, thank you. Okay, so item six is questions and statements from the public. I just wanted to make a request at this point, members, or rather a proposal. We have a speaker on item 10, which is the making of the full-born neighbourhood plan, which requires, and I want to propose to council that we bring forward that item to just after item eight, so that it's taken immediately following that item. And I propose that the speaker be allowed to speak immediately preceding that item. Can I just check that we're all happy with that? Can I take that by affirmation? Thank you very much, members. So, we'll bring that in after item eight. So, item seven on the agenda is petitions. We haven't received any. So, item eight is the result of the Cotton Award by election. Details of that are on pages 47 and 48. Sorry, I should just point out that in our agenda, we have in between these points on pages 39 and following the questions that were asked at the last council meeting for which answers were going to be given in writing. So, I just wanted to draw your attention to those questions and answers there. Sorry. Thank you. So, results of the Cotton Award by election. And I call on the chief executive to present the report. Thank you, Liz. Thank you, Chair. I'll be very brief. The Cotton Award by election was held on the 16th of March. And I confirm that Councillor Eileen Wilson was returned as the district councillor. Thank you very much. And I, for one, would like to say I'm very pleased to see you back on the council, Eileen. Thank you very much. So, we're going to move on, then, members, to item ten, which is page 105 of the agendas, which is the full-born neighbourhood plan. So, this is the making of the full-born neighbourhood plan. And I invite Mr Ron Ward to make his statement to council. Mr Ward has been, he said to me, the convener of the group who worked hard over five years to bring the full-born neighbourhood plan to fruition. So, Mr Ward, thank you. Do you press the red button on the right-hand side of your microphone? Thank you, Chair. Oh, that sounded loud. Am I shouting? No, okay, fine. First of all, can I apologise that Mary Drage, the chair of our PC, unfortunately has got COVID, otherwise she would have been here today. Yeah, in talking to your chair, she did ask me whether I've been chair of the neighbourhood plan team. I don't think you'd share a neighbourhood plan team. I much prefer to use the word facilitator, because I think it is a very long, very detailed process, and it does need somebody who can actually just keep it on track. I will briefly cover three areas, if I may. The characteristics of full-born, the sort of investment which has been made in the plan, because it is substantial. And what we plan to do going forward. Now, full-born actually, if you don't know it, has a current population of 5,000. And during the plan period to 2031, it's expected to grow to six. There are two sites which you've already given detailed planning permission for, which will add 300 houses to our village. So we will then have 2,500 houses at the moment, it's 2,200. But one thing which did surprise us very much when we were doing the plan, there are 4,500 jobs in full-born. That is substantial. Anyway, it's very historic, developed from Roman and Saxon times, and that's important. The historical core is buildings from the 14th to the 18th century, with 13th century St Vigur's Church, a 16th century Six Bell's pub, which is still well used. And earlier timber-frained farmhouses dating from the 14th century. Moving on to sort of the investment in the plan, we started in April 2018. And assuming you make it today, first of April Saturday will be five years. So it has taken quite a while. We put together a steering group of 15 interesting villages. They came from the Paris Council. Councillor Cohn was involved. Full-born Forum and the Towning Memorial Hall Trust, where I was Vice-Chair, which is the full-born centre organisation. We built on an earlier village plan, but we still organised surveys of all villages. Everybody was asked what they would like to see happen to full-born in the planned period. We surveyed all the community facilities, all the clubs to see what actually they would like to see. And we also surveyed all those businesses, which is where we found four and a half thousand jobs. They did say actually, which is rather encouraging, that full-borns are the place to work in. So that's encouraging. All of these surveys in the original village plan led to the vision. And the vision very briefly is that in the period of 2031, full-born village will continue to be a vibrant, sustainable and thriving local community with its own distinctive characteristics, separate from Cambridge, yet complementary and benefiting from its proximity. It will have a locally distinctive built and natural environment and a wide provision of local services strongly supported by the local community. New developments will ensure the ongoing success of full-born, providing suitable housing, employment, leisure facilities and local services while protecting, and this is important, and enhancing its natural and built assets for future generations. Not only did these interested villages put in a lot of time, financially as well, it is worth noting what a neighbourhood plan costs to develop. We got the maximum grants that we could from locality, but we still needed to top it up from the Paris Council. I know you are lucky to get 20,000 from the government from every neighbourhood plan which you put forward, but there is a substantial financial investment in the neighbourhood plan, the substantial time and effort and just to, or I must be forward, I press on just to thank Jenny Nuttingham and her team, previously Alison Tawkington, who were very supportive through this whole process. Significantly investment from ourselves and full-born yourselves. So going forward, given all the above, it is essential that the plan is not just left in the drawer to gather dust. We have already put together a two-page aims and actions document, which will form the basis of work going forward. We are also going to probably change our Paris Council slightly in as much as while the Paris Council committees will leave some of these, they will be supported by people who are involved in the neighbourhood plan. I volunteered to continue to coordinate with this, better or worse. So we will see. Now the first aim was to establish with yourselves how having a neighbourhood plan in place will use the planning applications and within your planning team. We have a meeting scheduled with the development team in late April. They are asking for a presentation of our plan, but we are asking for a lot more. We want to know, not only we are quite happy to tell them the plan, give them a handout probably, but we want to know how they will use it. So we have also started much closer to home in as much as one of the items which came up was to, sorry chair am I okay, was to achieve safer roads for the village. And we have a group which is made up both of the Paris Councils and non-Paris Councils, which hopefully will be able to benefit from your basis initiative with regard to 20 mile an hour limits. Thank you for your time. We look forward to the neighbourhood plan being made and if there are any questions, I will be more than happy to answer them. Thank you very much Mr Ward. And also I just wanted to say well done for all the work that you've done in drawing that together. So councillor Dr Timmy Hawkins, who's the lead member, Cabinet Member for Planning, is going to present a report and move on to the recommendation. Well thank you very much chair. I am pleased to say that this is the eighth neighbourhood plan that we're bringing forward to be made in South Cambridgeshire. Now as you've heard from Mr Ward, the neighbourhood plan has been prepared by a stereo group, which he's facilitated. Working with the Paris Council and work started on this plan about five years ago, neighbourhood plans do take a while. And just to say that the neighbourhood area was actually designated by the council in August 2018. And then following several years of work, as you've heard, the neighbourhood plan was then formally submitted to the council in October 2021 to then take it through the next stages. A referendum was held on the 9th of February with 17% of those eligible to vote turning out to have their say. And of that, 91.93% were in favour of the neighbourhood plan. And as you've heard, the plan has an overall vision, which I won't repeat, but we'll conclude on that one by saying it has eight objectives and 13 policies that seek to deliver that vision and you'll find those on pages 147 to 152 of our agenda papers. Those policies actually seek to maintain and improve the character and distinctiveness of Fulburn, extend existing green infrastructure, enhance the rural environment, as well as deliver appropriate housing mix, affordable housing, protect and improve amenities and promote walking, cycling and riding. I mean, as always, I learned something new about a village whenever we bring items like this forward. In this case, I discovered that Fulburn has existed for over a thousand years, where I did. Nowhere near it. And parts of that village still reflects the character from that time. A specific policy is one that relates to its streets and lanes and I can understand why. It wants to ensure that new streets and lanes are designated or designed to match the character of existing streets as far as possible. And also the policy requires the design principles from the Fulburn Village Design Guide to be applied. Now I think, if memory serves me right, this is probably the first village that has both a village design guide and hopefully today we'll have a neighbourhood plan. Once made, a neighbourhood plan becomes part of the development plan, Mr Ward. And all planning decisions in the neighbourhood area needs to be made in accordance with the development plan. And I'm glad that you have a meeting scheduled to hear from our planning officers about how you'll be working together on that. Now officers from the planning team have supported the steering group. We are in Torquentin on Tissier Retired in August and then Jenny, Noticom and Lizzie Wood up until now. I want to congratulate the neighbourhood plan team for an excellent work and for all the effort that you've put in up until now. So I'm asking members to support the recommendations that we have in paragraph 4 of our report to note the referendum for the Fulburn neighbourhood plan to be placed on 9 February in the Fulburn neighbourhood plan as it was a successful referendum. Thank you, Chair. Thank you very much, Councillor Dr Tim Hawkins. Do you have a seconder for the recommendation? Yes, yes, Chair. I formally second and reserve my right to speak. Thank you very much, Councillor John Williams. And I'd like at this point to ask the local members if they would like to say anything and I'll do that in alphabetical order. So Councillor Graham Cohn. Thanks very much, Chair. I'll just very briefly speak on the neighbourhood plan. I'll try not to duplicate too much of what's already been said and I definitely won't go over the history of Fulburn any more. I think Mr Ward is well placed to do that not just because of his age but because he's lived in the village a lot longer than I have. So it really is just for me to say that I'm really, really pleased to see that Fulburn neighbourhood plan has been endorsed by the residents of Fulburn in the recent referendum. The neighbourhood plan has involved a huge amount of work from resident groups, the parish council, local district and county councillors, working cross party to put forward a plan that best represents what residents want for Fulburn going forward. And as Mr Ward said, we've worked very closely with the officers at Southcams to achieve that. It is my view that the neighbourhood plan will protect the character of Fulburn for many years to come meaning that future generations will be grateful of the neighbourhood plan when it's used in planning applications and looking at how projects will come forward in Fulburn. It's been really nice to see residents from all different backgrounds and community groups come together to contribute to the neighbourhood plan and it's been really nice to see different parts of the village come together and work together and contribute to things that they've got a passion or an interest in. So, it really just, you know, I'll just finish by saying I hope we can support this recommendation. It's been an awful lot of work over many years and it really will benefit the village of Fulburn. Thanks very much. Thank you very much, councillor, Grant Coe, councillor Carl Hoffman if you'd like to speak. A neighbourhood plan is a special document because it's created by a group of people who are passionate about their community. It reflects a place that they know and love. Putting a neighbourhood plan together shows how much this community wants to protect what it has whilst appreciating how the area needs to change to meet the needs of our children and grandchildren and for that I greatly appreciate all the work that's been put into it. Thank you very much. And councillor John Williams, did you want to wait? Thank you, chair. We should be grateful to the four-ball neighbourhood plan team. Sorry, councillor John Williams. I wasn't sure if you wanted to wait to speak right at the very end because I don't know if other members want to speak. Because you're seconding the motion, aren't you? Sorry, I thought we were at the end. Can I just start? I want to speak about the neighbourhood plan and then I'll come back to councillor. No, it looks like. Sorry, on you go, councillor Williams. As I said, I think we should be grateful to the four-ball neighbourhood plan team for the tremendous work that they've done over the past five years to deliver this comprehensive and robust plan which will ensure that planning decisions take into account the wishes of those living and working in four-ball. I know how arduous this can be. I was involved with the parish plan which preceded the neighbourhood plan. I know how much work is involved in getting this together and so we should be very grateful to all the volunteers that helped in four-ball to get this plan together and on to our statute. Thank you, councillor Williams. I think Mr Romwood would like to have a brief word. A brief comment to Mr Cones. Rather... I don't quite know what to say regarding my age but it does actually sum up what we did. If you're going to start on something like this you have to make sure you have fun. Have fun every time as you go through it and I think, Graham, we didn't manage to do that. Thank you very much. That's good. I'm glad you enjoyed it because I know how long the process can be from neighbourhood plans in my area. I would also like to thank the officers involved who I know do such a wonderful job of guiding those enthusiasm to make sure that we end up with a document that can be made at the end of it. I'll bring us back to the recommendation on page 105 at paragraph 4. It is recommended that council notes that the referendum for the full-born neighbourhood plan took place on 9 February 2023 and makes or adopts the full-born neighbourhood plan as it was a successful referendum. The major version of the plan is at Appendix 1 of this report. Members, are we all happy to make the full-born neighbourhood plan? Take that by affirmation. Lovely. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you on behalf of the village. Thank you. Thank you for attending today. Members, we now turn back to item 9A which is the paid policy statement starts on page 49 but substantially on page 50. I'll call on Councillor John Williams, Lead Cabinet Member for Resources to present the report and move the recommendation. Thank you, Chair. We remember we do this every year and we have to, as it says, we are as part of the Localism Act. We have to define what our policy is regarding pay, charges, fees, allowances, benefits in card pension and termination payments to not just senior managers and chief officers but all employees including the lowest paid. On that, I'd like to start by pointing out that I'm very pleased that since last April we have had a policy of a minimum wage of £11 which continues to be above the real living wage which was announced in November. And no doubt we will be taking that bearing that in mind in the pay offer that we make for this year. You'll also see that the gap between the highest and lowest pay points, that's the salary of the chief executive and the lowest paid employee, continues to be under 1-8 which, given that the average in private industry is 1-20, then I think again we should be very proud of that. And we also continue to have a good balance in favour of women on this council where the mean and the right equivalent between men and women is 10.51% in favour of females. And the median rate is 17.68 in favour of females both of which are improvements on last year. So all in all, I think this is a very excellent report and that we should be very proud of the fact that we continue to be a good employer in this council. Thank you. Thank you very much, Councillor John Williams. Do you have a seconder? I'll get his council for the halings. Thank you very much. So do you want to speak now or do you wish to reserve your own? No, is that all right? You're reserving. Thank you. So, members, does anybody wish to speak about this or asking questions? Okay, so over to you, Councillor Halings. I'm not really sure then there's very much to say except I do think as members for all of us it must be a point of relief and I think pride but in very difficult times both in terms of the cost of living crisis also whether a place like South Cambridgeshire which has a high cost of living particularly but also across local authorities where there's a huge challenge in terms of recruitment and retention of staff that what we have to offer here is a policy that as Councillor John Williams has said really does set the bar high and shows that we do care and I just wanted to note because I looked this up but actually in terms of local authorities across the country as well we perform higher than average in terms of that gap between the highest and the lowest paid which is a critical measure I think of so many issues that arise in the workplace and of course it's very good to know that it's not good to know that we've got sort of there is a gender pay gap and this time it's in favour of females which is not often what you said and females also at the senior positions too so equality is really important but it is good to see that if there is that gap at the moment that's in favour of women who are working within the authority and also as always I think the fact that all of the negotiations are to make sure that this is above the minimum wage it's above the real living wage it's contextual it's what it means in South Cambridgeshire to be an affordable amount paid so thank you Thank you very much Councillor Halings so I'll come to the recommendation which is on page 50 at paragraph 2 the Employment and Staffing Committee recommend that the council consider and approve the updated pay policy statement as required by the Localism Act 2011 so members since nobody has wished to speak against this can I assume we'll take that by affirmation OK, thank you very much members so moving on then to item 9B which is Assistance for Political Groups this starts on page 63 of our agenda and as chair of the Civic Affairs Committee I will present this report and move the recommendation the item was considered at Civic Affairs Committee on the 2nd of March the committee has recommended to council that the constitution be amended to allow for the appointment of political assistance and that recommendation is found at paragraph 5 on page 63 and I understand Councillor Cohn are you happy to second I understood you I am chair, thank you very much do you wish to speak now or do you wish to yeah, I'm happy to speak now just that I endorse the proposals that have been put before us thank you very much indeed does anybody else wish to speak to this can't see anybody else, right so in that case members does anybody wish to vote against these recommendations or can I take that by affirmation Councillor Richard Williams did you wish to say something can we have a recorded vote on this please yes we can, yep surely so Erin if you could set us up for the recorded vote so press the blue button to indicate that you're here if you want to vote for that recommendation you press the plus if you want to vote against that motion you press the minus and if you wish to abstain you press the X which I think is yellow 33 people in the room someone's doing quick tot up how many people are in the room I think that person is in the room okay, so has everybody voted everybody's got a colour in front of them okay so that's the 31 in favour and 2 against so that is carried thank you members so the next item is 9C on page 69 oh right we have some members who need to leave the chamber so just to let Councillor Stobart, Councillor Hobro and Councillor Sankart have just let the room okay so can I call upon Councillor John Williams lead cabinet member for resources to present the report and move the recommendation please thank you chair we see from the executive summary we are refreshing the version of the investment strategy in order to take account of changes to sit for rules but also most importantly to rules regarding borrowing from the public works loan board in effect as we all know the public works loan board if we wish to borrow from the public works loan board then we cannot invest simply for yield it has to be more for a either social or regeneration purpose and so we have changed the criteria for our investment strategy to meet that requirement and so we have two new categories of investment these can be found in paragraph 7.3.1 and 7.3.2 on pages 85 and 86 one is to do with service investment and the other to do with commercial and regeneration investments and we continue to have a matrix against which to to decide whether these whether or not projects are worthy of investment but the details about what the changes are what these new categories are can be found in those paragraphs is worth bearing in mind that currently our commercial property estate stands at just over 50 nearly 53 million 52.6 million and we have an investment in Street Our Housing company of 100 million but from that investment we should be receiving in the coming financial year some 7 million pounds of income from that investment so sizeable help towards delivering our front line services comes from these investments so that demonstrates how important that we have these investments and you will see from paragraph 19 in the report that we are looking over the coming 5 years to invest some 44 million in additional investments over the next 5 years which I think is a very modest sum in the circumstances so I do hope that you agree the recommendation you agree the updated investment strategy which is attached as a pending say Thank you very much and do you have a seconder? Yes I'm a seconder chair I'll reserve my right to speak Thank you very much Does anybody wish to speak on this? Thank you Thank you chair So it has been amended following those PWLB things why you've made the changes you've made and I'd like to start chair by saying that I'm not opposed to commercial investment we've obviously when it was under our control we had Airman Street and the like so I don't say this with a complete prejudice against what is being proposed I do however have the same concerns around governance of this as I did in 2019 first amendment I ever brought was a governance on the investment strategy as some members may remember it does worry me that the oversight that we have and with the first investment which was back in I think it was March 2019 what we saw after that investment was made was it actually went to audit corporate governance post so it had prescrutiny postcrutiny that is the only item that has ever come back to audit corporate governance to my knowledge and that was something that the chair at the time was quite insistent and makes sense and we're not seeing that and I do have the same concerns now as I did then I also have concerns that the strategy does require borrowing in ways previous decisions have not and in the current climate I think it would be very difficult to sit here for myself and we have to accept every investment no matter what matrix, no matter what you've got in front of you is a risk that is risk attached to investments I think we all accept that and there's one thing risking capital and there's another thing getting yourself into debt to make the risk and there's a balance to be struck I'm not saying there's not but I feel this is too far into that balance I'd also say on page 102 of what's in front of us today the tenancy strength where is me in the current climate I did raise this at scrutiny I would have preferred to have seen that just as equally important as a location the matrixes are there and score systems are there in place to guide I appreciate that it doesn't fit every situation but in the current climate I'm not happy to support this as it currently stands thank you chair thank you very much councillor Williams did you want does anybody else wish to speak on this councillor Atkins yes sorry thank you chair one query if I may in 8.4.3 of the full reports there's on page 89 by my count of the main pack there's a discussion of the investment cover ratio it may be that I'm misunderstanding what's being said here but I don't fully understand how the table at 8.4.3 relates to the paragraph that follows the ratio appears to me to be that doesn't quite hang together and it's an important ratio for this council to be aware of so I'd appreciate some clarification on what's been by that and apologies for not raising it before because I didn't spot the text underneath that table more broadly in response to the comments that previous member I'm happy to discuss with members if they feel there's a need for some part of this to come to audit in corporate governance my only concern as chair of that committee is it's important that it retains its focus appropriately on the areas that it's been given to are not drift too far into scrutiny of decision making which of course is properly the role of the overview and scrutiny committee so it may be that a discussion perhaps also with the chair of that committee might ensure that members' concerns are addressed in the most appropriate manner and that committees stay focused on what's required of them so yes if I could get a clarification on it point 4.3 I'd appreciate it thank you thank you councillor that came is anybody else got any queries or so councillor Williams did you wish to come back on that I think the head of finance is able to respond to the question thank you so Peter Maddock thank you so the table itself obviously shows the actual interest payments that we're assuming we're going to make in total and then the paragraph below is talking about the rates that we've applied in coming to those figures so I see the point it's sort of related to it but it it just explains or tries to explain that in 2324 in arriving at the 3 million pounds an interest rate of 4.75 has been assumed and then when we move on to the following year was the year after that 2526 we're using 3.5% thank you Mr Maddock did you want to come back to councillor Williams if I may just come back on the point of this going to all debt and corporate governance we have looked at this in the past and I think the feeling is that the view was that members of Scrutiny and Overview wanted to have the opportunity of discussing this and that I think it's felt in the past that was the most appropriate committee for it to go to given the order and corporate governance tends to look at things after they've happened where Scrutiny and Overview look at things before they happen and give us advice before we take the action I don't think looking at it having both committees looking at it before or after because obviously regarding the the account sort of afterwards obviously Audit and Governance would look at this as part of its review of the audit of accounts and this would be part of that process so having it come to Audit and Corporate Governance before a final decision is made I don't think that would add anything to it and as I say in the past Scrutiny and Overview members have said that they would prefer to see so that they can give a view before a decision is made whereas Audit and Corporate Governance would be taken after that decision is made Thank you Exceptional that Councillor Williams come back is a point of personal explanation to be completely clear what I'm stating was what happened with the very first investment that was made there was an opportunity for Scrutiny pre-it but it came to Audit post decision to knock as well and I think with the volume of money being put into individual investments it's crucial that that should happen Thank you very much I'm sure what you've said has been heard Thank you With no further request to speak Sorry Sorry Over here chair Thank you So I just want to remark on the performance of our investment strategy in the period that we've been in under ministration which has been highly successful I've got to say I think we've gone back five years and said that the income levels that we're generating at this level would be more than happy and certainly in comparison with other councils around the country we're doing exceptionally well and long way to continue We are fortunate in that we're in a high growth area which means that particularly office space is at a premium still so we've taken advantage of that and as Councillor Williams John Williams has already said it has meant that we've kept our council tax increases because of this and I believe that we're still one of the lowest council tax rates in the districts across the country and that is in large part to this successful investment policy so long may it continue Thank you very much Councillor Nelms so we come towards the vote so the recommendation on page 69 of paragraph 2 is to approve the updated investment strategy attached to Dependix A and I'll take it by recorded vote members so if we can vote green for red if you wish to get against and yellow for outstanding I think there might be some people missing ah yes there's the four people outside the door so I think that's it Thank you very much so that's 2346 against so that is carried Thank you Yes I know this, thank you and Councillor Battitario has come into the room Welcome Councillor Battitario so that the recommendation is carried Yeah if somebody notifying our missing members that they can return Bring them back into the fold Rory's our runner for today Can't come back off the naughty step So members having already considered the making of the full born plan we're now on item agenda item 11 on page 251 of our agenda which is the appointment of the monitoring officer so I call on the chief executive Liz Watts to present a report Thank you Liz Thank you chair and thank you members following the resignation of our current monitoring officer who will be leaving tomorrow we undertook a full and thorough process to recruit a new monitoring officer as you know it's an important role one of the three statutory roles in the council and certainly as far as members are concerned the monitoring officer is critical to your ability to operate effectively as a counciller there was a senior officers appointment panel convened of members and that panel held interviews on the 1st and 2nd of February and I'm grateful to all those members who were able to attend those interviews and pleased to report that there was a unanimous recommendation that John Murphy should be appointed as the monitoring officer I should note that John was in the meeting he's just stepped out for this item but he is actually here sitting at the back there just because he wanted to be able to join council this afternoon so that's everything that I have for my report thank you chair so thank you very much Liz and can I just check that we have a reproposer chair I would like to propose the appointment counciller Stobart thank you very much and do we have a seconder counciller Sandford thank you very much so do we need to have any comment do you wish to make any comments counciller Haylings I think this is something on which everybody in the room could really say that how much we have appreciated Rory's professionalism and his wise guidance and he's enabled us to navigate some very difficult territory at times to know where are the boundaries what we need to do in terms of conflict of interest, some guidance that we need and he I think has gained such trust and admiration from all of us that we're really sorry to see you go but good luck with your new venture and we're looking obviously to welcome your successor but many many thanks I'd just like to say a few words I've had the interesting situation of having been Vice-Chair for three years and all of that time I have been extremely fortunate to have Rory to advise me both in the chamber and when we've had to consider matters that come to us as a council and I can honestly say it's been I've felt so reassured to have Rory advising us as a council on all matters which can be extremely difficult and complicated and if our new monitoring responds to his phone as quickly as Rory does I'm sure we'll all be very pleased so and I'd also like to wish Rory every success in his new role thank you and to say thank you and wish you very well in your new role in London thank you very much indeed and I'd like to wish for another round of applause ok right so we come to a recorded vote or affirmation yes I would have thought for our new monitoring officer lovely thank you very much and so on behalf of South Cambridge District Council I'd like to welcome back and congratulate John on being appointed as our monitoring officer John's now returned to the room and I wish you all the very best in the role and thank you very much and we look forward to working with you thank you so moving on then we are on item 12 page 255 which is the reports from our representatives on the combined authority the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough combined authority so normally we would have a report from Bridget Smith but in this case we Bridget is unable to attend so I'll hand over to the deputy leader Brian Milms Councillor Brian Milms yes thank you we are limited with our representatives here today so any questions I'm happy to take but the likelihoods have to be in a written answer as we would need to reference the people responsible thank you there's only one Councillor Williams thank you chair perhaps we can ask the leader for the written process we see there's another new chief executive and whether the same confidence is held in this one as she was very confident last time that the previous one was steady the ship so any news on the new one thank you chair thank you very much Councillor Milms noted composer of the response for you which no doubt will express confidence in the appointment I'm happy to wait for my written answer chair thank you very much Councillor Lent fell thank you chair also to note the appointment of Mr Bridge as the new chief officer I do think you could appoint Solomon the Wise or Solon of Athens and this thing still wouldn't work but I hope that this council's support and best wishes will be passed along to the new gentleman thank you very much and Councillor Milms I would just like to ask have the combined authority ever considered putting their reports in landscape format in portrait format rather than landscape it just makes it really extraordinarily difficult to read across a very long line so if you could take that back I'd appreciate it make a note of that as well thank you right moving on to item 13 we have just required to note those members are we happy to report we're noting that and item 13 is the item on the greater Cambridge partnership council's invited to note the feedback report and decisions of the greater Cambridge partnership so members do you have any questions for our representatives on the greater Cambridge partnership and this again Brian Milms councillor by God so let's have a look on page 260 in paragraph 2.9 so this is talking about a desire to improve and maintain dialogue through local members it was agreed that this ought to go with the grain of project sorry to interrupt what paragraph were you on on page 290 2.9 page 260 yes so it says it was agreed that this ought to go with the grain of project management and avoid delaying progress so I'm just wondering to what extent is that statement really compatible with statement above it about maintaining dialogue and getting feedback from members because my experience with the combined sorry with the greater Cambridge partnership is that a lot of things are already agreed before you hear about them and then if you raise concerns then it's always well sorry but it's too late it'll be delayed unless we do it exactly as the way we've got it so I'm just wondering what our representatives can do to sort of feedback that actually we'd like to be asked about our opinion before they actually design a route and before it's too late to change thank you I'm happy to report that actually there's been something of a transformation in this respect from the greenways team particularly and there's somebody involved in such a project I've had a series of meetings with the project team for all the sources of greenways which is representative of that change in attitude which was designed specifically to answer the question that you had can we be more involved on the outset rather disappointing 10 days ago the GCP did a member only presentation and event at which they could contribute 75 councillors both the county and district were invited you know how many people turned up five and two of those were late and missed half the presentation very disappointing because the offices have done to a huge amount of effort to put on this event to do exactly what you were asking for and the attendance were so low however the GCP team will continue to try and engage as much as possible because they recognise now and they've been told many times that the local knowledge of members on the patch are the ones that understand their territory best and if you engage with them you'll get better outcomes because they will provide services or greenways going in a way and to the destination in a locally knowledge inspired way so we continue hoping that members will also take part and respond to that offer of involvement thank you very much are there any yes I think there are questions from cancer headwains thank you chair sorry it would be helpful if you could circulate the date of that because I've had a quick look through emails and calendar and it hasn't appeared so that may explain the lack of attendance to be fair because that's quite, I appreciate not everyone can but a lot of puzzled faces so it may be worth checking and what I would say is that while it sounds great what council mills has experienced I know that's not been of other members who have tidy had to go for months and months and months to get a meeting so perhaps it's happening but not very consistently and that should be taken on board in relation to what was discussed at the assembly and for our representatives particularly on the board a plea that Royston is not the most southern part of our district it does seem with the cycle ways that we get to Royston isn't that wonderful well there's quite a lot of us, Bassingbourne Lettington, Mypatch, Stephen Warden Guildon Warden, we are south of there so can we please make sure and we have raised this and I know it's gone through but as it progresses that we are not forgotten we may not be large in numbers but we should be equally as important thank you chair Thank you very much, Councillor Richard Williams Thank you very much it's a question on what's mentioned in paragraph 2.4 which I'm sure Councillor Milnes will know about anyway it's the Saxton Greenway and it's reported that there's to be a review of the inclusion of two sections because it potentially duplicates C-set and given the question marks are on C-set I think I and I would imagine Councillor Milnes as well will be very keen that this doesn't result in a delay in the Saxton Greenway which offers benefits for his ward it offers great benefits for my ward as well through the spur down to the old Spicer site so could we just convey by our representative our eagerness I'm sure we all share that this does not result in a delay to this process it doesn't get too caught up with C-set thank you I've noted that and actually we've had very much that conversation and the second piece of the alternative route towards Wittlesford your ward is dubious at the moment in terms of the advantage it gives right now but we will take that into consideration and make sure we don't delay that the rest of the project thank you very much Councillor Dunlent thank you chair just to say I don't think there's any tinkering around the edges that the GCP is broken I think it is part of a landscape a crazy paving landscape of disjointed local authority in our neck of the woods and I think do find it very interesting that the chap who's just been appointed to the combined authority joins from north north Hamptonshire a unitary authority but the GCP is public standing owing to the congestion charge consultation if it can still be called back I don't think it's ever going to recover thank you thank you very much right so can't see anybody else wishing to speak so I think we'll note the report thank you very much so members we'll come now to questions from councillors that's item 14 on the agenda and we'll start with the question from councillor Dan Lentell would you like to present your question thank you chair I'm happy for it to be as read thank you very much so I understand councillor John bachelor is likely to respond to this yes thank you very much chair thank you councillor for your question first thing to say I think is that all our affordable housing stock is wholly funded by rental income so we need to keep that in mind in that this is a discreet business which is separate from the rest of the organisation here and we have to meet all the costs out of the rents so rent increases are made annually and linked with inflation to ensure the housing service is viable the self financing regime was based on annual rent increases of CPI plus 1% for this year this formula would have meant an increase of 11.1% which we knew would be have huge affordability issues for tenants subsequently government introduced a rent cap 7% for this year following consultations with housing providers generally this was considered to be a compromised position between ensuring housing providers could continue to run their services and repay borrowing but have some control of the higher inflation increases as a housing provider we are statutory by the government to make improvements to our council homes specifically we must meet the overall net zero target by 2050 with a target of achieving 68% by 2030 and 78% by 2035 any grant subsidy that we receive has to be added raising all newly let properties to EPC band C by 2025 currently that will be something in the region of 1000 of our properties equally we have an obligation to raise all existing tenences to CPC C or above by 2028 again this involves something with the order of 1000 properties this is out of our total of 5600 there is also an increase in fire safety regulations as well as the additional requirements we are also seeing rising costs affecting our supply chain and delivery of projects and repairs in terms of higher costs of material and labour on top of this we are also inheriting higher value repairs when properties are vacated which can in part be attributed to current financial crisis we have also seen an increase in overall costs relating to our new build program relating to higher costs of build material and labour in addition following the implementation of the new build regulations 2022 new houses that we are planning and acquiring now have a significantly greater carbon performance delivering this level of improvement also increases build costs we do acknowledge that these are difficult times in terms of rising costs but have had to balance this with ensuring the service remains viable for those that receive housing benefit around about 40% of our tenants the rental increase will be covered also the case of course of pensioners will also receive an inflation level increase in pensions and again that's roughly 40% of our tenants so there's no overlap there you can say more than 50% of tenants certainly through the increase in benefits have any rental increase covered we will continue to offer support and advice to those that are struggling financially consultation with tenant representatives has taken place through the housing engagement board which is therefore this purpose and we have 6 elective representatives on that thank you chair thank you very much councillor Baxter councillor Lentol did you have a supplementary question thank you councillor I do have a thank you for your reply I do have a rather long supplementary which I supplied in writing it relates specifically to rent charge notifications issued at Elmcourt in my ward of Over and Willingham and about the massive increase to the electricity and energy bills residents are facing I'm happy to read it out in full but I'm also happy to hear your response not in full thank you councillor Lentol councillor Baxter do you have that I do indeed thank you very much councillor for tenants have prior notice of that as you say it does require a lot of research so Elmcourt is sheltered housing unit with 19 flats it's the only scheme we have in the district where heating and hot water is supplied by a communal boiler through a heating network a previous three year fixed price contract we had to supply gas came to an end last December the previous price was 1.69 pence per kilowatt hour we are now paying 29.3 pence per kilowatt hour there has been an uplift in the daily standing charge and the climate levy as well all affected of course by the worldwide wine emergency crisis there is a support scheme called the energy bills support scheme alternative funding for customers that do not have a direct relationship with a domestic supplier this provides funding of £400 we are encouraging residents who apply for this fund and are supporting them through the application process but they have to apply for this individually we are also looking at a government scheme called the government's heat network energy discount scheme which starts on the 1st of April we need to apply for a certificate to present to our energy supplier to receive a discount rate we believe this will significantly reduce the per kilowatt charge but we haven't got a precise number as yet this will help to reduce bills moving forward but certainly won't cover the increased costs we have experienced over the last few months January to March as I say we have been paying at the rate of the 29 pence tenants have continued to pay at their previous rate and we have no intention of asking for any rebate on these costs colleagues from affordable homes have met with residents on a number of occasions already and communicated directly with some relatives to explain why there has been such a steep rise we will continue contacting make sure that all residents have been advised of the current situation the measures referred to above should help reduce the service charge that is currently being proposed we will need to work closely with colleagues in accountancy to see how many changes can be implemented in order to assist in the short term that has been agreed that we will cap any costs for individual flats at £30 per week we will keep this cap until we have arranged the sign up to the general discount rate thank you very much and thank you for those very full answers Councillor Peter Sandford your question next would you like to pose? thank you chair, my question is printed on the agenda thank you very much and I believe Councillor Brian Mills thank you Councillor Sandford for your question the operation of bus services in our region actually nationwide is of increasing concern the reliability the robustness of the bus services that we are enduring at the moment is very regrettable the de-registration re-registration of bus routes has left people stranded pupils cannot get home have to be rescued by parents old people have been left in 45 minutes on a 15 minute bus journey in I think minus 9 degrees in Cambridge City actually that old person or one of those old people were me the hiking of the prices to take advantage of the £2 bus fare is another example that the bus companies are not doing any favours at all and that really needs to be addressed if we come back to your question yes we can use our position on the combined authority board to make sure that taxpayers are receiving value from any we've introduced from the combined authority a £12 preset which is specifically going towards subsidising busses to compensate for the removal of services planned by the bus operators but that won't do so the situation with both permanent installations is extremely frustrating the structural issue regarding bus provision is most unsatisfactory this is a legacy I'd like to mention it this is Margaret Thatcher deregulated the bus services and the only way out from that is to introduce franchising system but the biggest problem with that is that it needs financing where would that finance come from now we've got, particularly for parishioners an event coming up we've got our parish liaison committee which will be focusing on transport we've invited Dr Nick Johnson to attend so that parishes can raise their concerns and we can discuss the implications and the progress towards franchising that he's already said that he's very much on his radar thank you very much did you have a supplementary question yes I do thank you chair thank you to the deputy leader for his comments and his explanation of the big picture I think bus services are probably the most common topic I hear about parish council meetings I hear about residents whose individual services are cancelled sometimes on twitter at 5am for buses that are scheduled to run that morning sometimes buses simply do not show up despite being listed on the electronic panels and as the deputy leader says the situation isn't ideal if you rely on the bus to get to work or college could I ask deputy leader to pass two suggestions for improvement to the combined authority firstly ask the combined authority to publish the scrutiny process and KPIs they use to measure the quality of services that will provide everyone with the confidence that council taxpayers money is being spent well and secondly could I suggest they design their website to allow customers to easily submit comments on a particular service currently you have to click through four pages of marketing pages on the website to find a static list of the services but still no easy way of providing feedback and I think the deputy leader again for his comments thank you very much thank you more than happy to ask our representative on the CPCA for both that information the use of data an effective use of data so bus time arrivals actually showing that the delay is in the accurate information so it doesn't say 10 minutes but it actually means 30 or vice versa people are relying on the bus going when they expect it to be there or that it's been changed so both of those ideas I think are really valuable because we really need to drill down into the level of performance from the bus service companies thank you thank you very much councillor Sally Ann Hart would you like to put your question thank you chair I'm mindful of time so the question is as it's written on the papers thank you very much and I believe that is going to be responded to by councillor John Bachelor thank you also be mindful of time well yes alright thank you councillor Hart Erminstry Housing is a wholly owned subsidiary of this council and its business activity provides the council with £3.6 million in interest payments in this current year in addition to the return to the council the company provides added value working closely with the housing department to provide accommodation for vulnerable groups two houses in Camborn are in use as houses of multiple occupancy and let to shire homes to use as temporary accommodation reducing the need to use bed and breakfast helping single homeless people the company has provided accommodation for Afghan refugee families works with partners and care providers in Peterborough to provide specialist housing for those with additional needs asylum seekers and refugees in the scheme to reduce the cost of unsuitable bed and breakfast accommodation the council is working with Erminstry to purchase more properties to be used for vulnerable families the council plans to use government funding to provide grants to allow Erminstry to buy additional properties which will be accessible to people who otherwise would be in temporary accommodation the company is moving into a consolidation phase starting to look at the asset portfolio beginning with a full stock condition survey during the spring and summer and this will inform further iterations of the business plan to ensure a good investment programme is in place the company is undertaking a green energy audit and in addition to the acquired portfolio of 500 houses Erminstry leases a further 190 homes from the Ministry of Defence the MOD has indicated we will continue with this arrangement in the medium to long term the council proposed an interest rise from April 23 to 4.25% which has been accepted by the company and this will increase the return to council of more than 4 million pounds I would like to give my thanks to Duncan Vasey and his team for creating a very successful business well done Thank you very much councillor John Batchelor and councillor Sally-Ann Hart did you have a follow up question? No, thank you for the answer Members, can I just check some people are indicating they would like to have a pause for a comfort break Others are saying crack on Would you like us to crack on with the questions or do you want a break? Crack on, lovely Moving on then councillor Lisa Reddra Would you like to place your question? Thank you chair My question is as written please Thank you very much My question was about the East West Rail project and whether we knew what routes was likely to be chosen So in the which budget was it? There was been quite a few The most recent one said that there would be announcements about the route in May and confirming that the project was still alive I've been to at least three meetings over the last two weeks hosted by East West Rail and I can't say that I've got any indication that they know what routes to be chosen It's very disappointing at the moment There's been so little progress on this project over the last year It's hugely disappointing There has been a problem with not knowing the routes People have gotten blighted in terms of the previous routes as considerations and they've been unable to sell their property because of that for example So it's really important that this gets resolved as soon as possible and people can start to live with some certainty Thank you Thank you very much I just wondered if there was any information on how the council will be engaging on the future processes So how this council will be engaging with East West Rail and the Rail Minister moving forward That's a note Yes, thank you We invited Hugh Merriman who is the current Transport Minister responsible Unfortunately he responded saying he'd already been without telling us which was rather disappointing too But there we go He's come to see the patch so hopefully we'll have been better informed As I've said, I've been to a number of meetings One of the questions that's still outstanding from those meetings is what are they going to do as a power source rather than be diesel or other internal combustion engine type options and they aren't able to answer that question at the moment very disappointingly But we will keep on top of the case keep attending the meetings try and influence them as best as possible get them to minimise the impact of the route when they choose it and show if we can the connections with villages and so on Thank you Thank you very much Moving on Our next question is from Councillor Helen Leaming Thank you chair I would like my question as read please This relates to asylum seekers being housed at Barhill and I believe Councillor Bill Handley Are you? Yes thank you chair The Home Officers contract at the hotel in Barhill provides asylum seekers with a room three meals a day essential such as toiletries and nappies for young children and the laundry service Serco is the Home Officers partner who is responsible for overseeing the project and the welfare of the service users As soon as we were informed by the Home Office that the hotel was to be used for the purpose we established a local working group to bring together local councillors Barhill Parish Council key county council officers such as those with responsibilities for education and health Before any asylum seekers arrived at the hotel we met with Barhill Parish Council to explain the Home Officers intentions and we worked with them to ensure the local community were well informed Through good partnership working we've ensured that the additional immediate needs of the people staying at the hotel have been met such as clothing, donations and then coordination of distribution of the like Serco have been supported by education colleagues to ensure that school place applications are completed and health colleagues are carrying out initial health screening as part of the registration process to provide access to local medical services We are now working with the hotel and Serco to improve how we make best use of the areas of the hotel to ensure the needs of all users are catered for This will include English lessons on site and health and well-being activities The support from the local member councillor Bunty Waters and Barhill Parish Council has been superb and it's a huge thank you to Bunty and the Parish Council and those volunteers who have stepped forward to extend a warm welcome to the people staying at the hotel Good job Thank you very much and councillor Limmy did you have a supplementary question? No further questions Thank you very much for the answer Thank you Our next question is from councillor Graham Coe Thank you chair, that's on the agenda paper Thank you very much and this relates to plans for the four day week That's a fine one Thank you for your question Residents have been able to tell us what they think about the scheme for some time now There has been a short form available on the website for people to respond to for several months So far we've only had 21 responses to this form but not all the responses require a response from us About our four day week trial has spread organically as a result of local, regional and national media You'll know that we're one of the first if not the first local authority to experiment with this whereas there are many commercial companies already doing such pilots We have sought to keep residents up to date with a full page article in the most recent South Cams magazine so that people are informed about the scheme and further external updates will follow later this year to keep local residents informed We have been open and transparent about how we will evaluate the success or otherwise of the scheme and we're looking forward to updating members and residents at the Cabinet meeting in May Thank you very much Councillor Mills I don't chair Thank you very much Councillor Heather Williams As is red chair Thank you very much and Councillor Brian Mills I think you'll be directing that to Councillor Dr Timmy Hawkins I'm sorry Councillor Dr Timmy Hawkins I'd like to speak Thank you chair I'm through you I must say it is interesting to see yet another question on compliance from the opposite page so soon after we are doctored in your policy but thank you for your continued interest which will no doubt help us As I previously reported the compliance process has been undergoing a period of review and transformation we reviewed the capacity we appointed a new team manager we reviewed ways of working aligned processes for both councils we reviewed how we gave information we got a new web page and also we reviewed how people give us the complaints hence the e-form or the fill in the form that you that was mentioned these enhancements are new and as we stand up practice when a new system is introduced we monitor how it is used and take on modernary reports of issues or difficulties using it but I'm pleased to say since we introduced it on December 1, 2022 we have received 168 referrals or compliance breaches potential and a hundred of these were used using the e-form and we will continue to review the process as we progress with full automation of our compliance system but I just want to say to Councillor Williams if you have any specific issues with electronic form then I'll be pleased to hear them and also suggestions of how we can improve them and obviously work on that and I thank you in advance Thank you Councillor Did you have any supplementary? Probably a very brief supplementary that the reason I have this is because I'm seeing an increase as a local member of people coming to me because the form won't go to the next stage unless a house address is put on it and when it's neighbour so I have a lot of people now coming directly to me that would have normally gone through that process because they are reluctant to fill in those personal details so that could be that the form is looked at again so it's not a criteria to get to the next stage or perhaps look at an alternative for those that are reluctant to report Thank you Councillor Yes there's a reason for having that and I think it stated that we would not accept anonymous reports there's no reason why somebody who wants to make a report cannot ask someone else to do it on their behalf but I take your point, we will discuss it I'll see where we go from there Thank you Members, we have one last question and we've got half a minute to respond so Councillor Beigodd as written to Thank you and Councillor Ryan Milne's we're on H Oh yes and Dr Timmy Hawkins Thank you Councillor Beigodd but I think you still remember how the planning process works As I said at the February cabinet the starting point for local plans is the objectively assessed need and based on expected economic growth and assessing if there are any constraints that may prevent us from meeting that Sorry to interrupt but we have to stop for 30, 40 seconds of minutes, thank you very much So Members I'm sorry we haven't been able to get through all the questions but those that we haven't been able to answer thank you to the members who have given answers those we haven't been able to answer will be either included in the next agenda the agenda for the next committee meeting or members will be provided with written responses so we'll proceed on that basis Thank you Yes, should we take a quick pause for a comfort break Members I would have done so at four but rather than launch into the motion, I think we'll take a pause Can I suggest we come back it's 3.44 by the clock on the walk, can I suggest we come back at no later than 5.02 Thank you very much Thank you very much Ken, you're now live Thank you Erin So welcome back Members and members of the public, we apologise for the delay We are now on to item 15a which is the motion in the name of Councillor Heather Williams but it has come to our attention that some members might be have a conflict of interest and so and I am one of them so I'm proposing to request that those people who feel they might be conflicted to leave the room and I'll hand over to Peter Fain as Vice-Chair and the councillors who's this has been discussed with are Councillor Milne's Councillor Atkins Councillor Bender then and myself I will come back after this item Thank you Okay, can we go live please Right, welcome back We now come to item 15a the motion in the name of Councillor Heather Williams I think the Chairman before departing has already explained the circumstances I just want to emphasise that the motion as tabled was amended in the lighter developments recently but it was amended just in time and with the chair's discretion we are therefore able to take that motion as before us so I therefore I'm not proposing to recruit a Vice-Chair for this one item I think we can manage without if you'll forgive me so I now come to Councillor Heather Williams please would you move your motion Thank you chair and I appreciated that this would be controversial but I wasn't sure of the extent so I will just explain that it was the first paragraph that was amended subsequent submission just for a full openness and transparency obviously that happened at the time of our deadlines the main reason that I'm putting this forward is because a lot of people not a small amount an awful lot of people which we all would have seen are really concerned have fears and are worried about the potential for congestion charging in Cambridge and whether any member of this chamber agrees with that or not I think we all agree that if somebody has concerns then we need to take every effort to help them address that and one of the concerns that was raised with me very early on in this process from residents was about a say and a mandate we put together manifestos we stand for election on promises and pledges for what we will do and what we won't do and many residents felt that they hadn't had that opportunity they have taken part in the consultation but still the decision making process is alarming to them now a referendum if we just put aside our thoughts as to whether congestion charging is right or wrong a referendum which has been used in other places would enable every person in Cambridge to have a voice to have a say and whatever the result of that would be at least we have given people an opportunity and I think it's very very important that everybody has that opportunity and that they don't feel disenfranchised as a product of not having their say so I'm trying to go on where I think we could find common ground I appreciate that there are people like myself on the context of congestion charge do you not believe the proposals are the right ones as they currently stand and I think it was very disappointing not only the outcome of the debate but the debate itself and I hope today that we can show that we can talk about these issues in the right forums in the right way of which a referendum would give such an opportunity to have debate on both sides and that there is nothing to fear from democracy if any of us in this room fear democracy then we shouldn't be sat in it barring the top table where our officers are obviously how can we pledge for people's votes ask them to support us if we're fearful of what they will say to us in return so I appreciate that there's we actually had today so I was going to go on something else but just a point we had the full born referendum and we celebrated that we celebrated earlier on the fact that a community had worked hard, put things together and that it had been endorsed in such a way and we endorsed that referendum that happens every day not just the one that's very controversial or the two that are very controversial they happen they are part of our democratic process and on something as huge as this to not have one I think would be a dereliction of our duty I appreciate that this council is not the council that will actually determine the referendum and has that choice but I think we do have a voice we do have a seat at the GCP and we should make sure that our representative is championing the voice of all of this council and they should be pushing for a referendum as our representative this isn't something that's happening somewhere else it's not because it's county or it's GCP we are in partnership as a council with the GCP and we should not be letting residents down on this which I fear if we don't support a referendum we would be how can we turn round to all those people and say your voice your vote doesn't matter that would be wrong for democracy it would be wrong for our residents and I hope no matter what your thoughts are on the proposals themselves that you will support the endorsement of a democratic process taking place thank you chair thank you for moving your motion just to remind you that my thoughts on the matter is chair don't matter at all do you have a second if you motion leave a do chair councillor thank you I should have said at the outset here that as members will be well aware our debates can last for a maximum of 30 minutes so at 1456 the debate will end although the mover of the motion you will have the opportunity to to speak after that does councillor Dan Betel do you second this motion and if so do you want to speak now or at the end I would like to speak at the end please we will reserve your right to speak thank you now we have other speakers I think who else do I have wants to speak we have councillor Richard Stobart councillor Drew and councillor Martin Carn and that's ah yes we have councillor Michael and councillor Cohn and councillor Richard Williams so we'll start off then with councillor though we have suddenly a lot of enthusiasm to speak in this debate we will try to get to all of you but I remind you we have only 30 minutes so I come first to councillor Richard Stobart thank you vice chair so wrapped up in the motion is the notion of democracy and yet there are 23,000 submissions to the making connections consultation and then amongst those and there was a big effort made during the consultation period to include as it were the young people's voice now one of the bigger groups of users who have a really compelling need to come up in the bus debate you know youngsters not be able to get from the outskirts of the city into the sixth form colleges for example so that is a group that has a distinct need and yet by proposing a referendum from which those under 18 are excluded because they're not a voting age you're actually disenfranchising a group with a need this voice needs to be expressed but whose particular need in this case would be ignored so for that reason you know the proposal doesn't hold the water thank you for that I next call councillor Stephen Drew my apologies I feel he left it blank for so long it wasn't ready for me to speak I note that obviously the call for referendum has been made and I believe in councillor William's reference she referred to Cambridgeshire one of the things that we know very clearly regarding the Cambridge and South Cambridgeshire region is that we pull people in we bring people in from a wide range of places and if we look at the interest that exists regarding the proposed sustainable transport zone in Cambridge we know that we also have great interest for that from people who live outside of Cambridgeshire so we have people live in Utlesford for instance the northern part of Essex we have people live in West Suffolk we have people live on the Bedfordshire borders and we could continue with that into other areas as well and those are also people who will be affected by this proposal so therefore I am concerned in relation to the proposal for referendum that is being made here because it strikes me as excluding a significant number of people whose views and opinions in this matter are just as relevant as ours as residents of South Cambridgeshire now somebody such as myself who doesn't travel to work in the city who travels to the area which would be outside the sustainable transport zone I could make a case for being an interested party within this and perhaps having a right to vote any referendum that goes but equally if I lived in Bedford and I travelled along the A428 into Cambridge for my commute I would also surely be able to make a case for being involved in any vote that took place so therefore it is for me any referendum that limited the vote to those residents of Cambridgeshire will be making an assumption that we can be quite parochial about what we do because we are deciding that only those who happen to live within those legislative borders are able to vote yet there are significant numbers of people who are just as invested in our city of Cambridge and in our economy here who live outside of that zone now I noted the reference made by Councillor Heather Williams to the full-born referendum on the local plan now for me that is an entirely appropriate use of referendum within local democracy it is specific to full-born itself or any other village that has adopted a local plan I remember that Gamelin Gay was talked about recently and it is entirely appropriate that those residents within that village within those boundaries are the ones that have adopted that referendum for it is a local plan related to them and it is a small-scale activity for that village so I'm not entirely sure that the comparison with a local plan referendum a neighbourhood plan referendum is a completely valid comparison and I would also like to make the point that each of us stood for election in this case in 2022 for those of us who are elected at that point or elected later and we do make our overall views very very clear and part of that is our responsibility to carry three policies and proposals if it is the case you would just draw your remarks to a conclusion please I am happy to stop at that moment thank you Councillor Drew I would remind members that you are asked to keep your comments to less than three minutes and I am keen to ensure that all those who are asked to speak in this debate have an opportunity to do so Councillor Martin can't when I look at referendums I immediately think of the Brexit referendum and where a large number of people most affected were not able to vote that affects me because my wife is a Polish citizen and was not able to vote and something was directly affected her referendums choosing the electorate is a very difficult issue it is if you take a referend an issue like this which is a complicated issue which is a which is a which we are consulting we haven't got the final solution and this is rather similar to the situation in Brexit Brexit referendum where we voted on something where we didn't know what the conditions were going to be beforehand and there are something which was proposed beforehand to be advised which became compulsory once it was adopted it was unsatisfactory to run the things we've got the solutions where we are but we need to learn from experience and from experience it's difficult to choose where the electorate is difficult to choose on complicated issues like this you make a yes no question to something where tweaks may change the situation it seems to me at this stage certainly inappropriate we cannot decide where the electorate is as previous people have commented we cannot decide the detail of what will be presented because we don't know what the final conclusion will be we don't know how it will be presented I think it is inadvisable from our own point of view if we're going to get the best solution to the problems we've got to take something which is complicated in a simple yes and no answer at this stage so I certainly don't approve at this stage I might be convincing future but at this stage I certainly don't think it's appropriate way forward Thank you for that I now call Councillor Tom Byger Thank you chair we are very very fortunate to be living in a democratic country there are many people around the world who do not have that very great privilege that we have and we should make the best of what we have the congestion charge is a tax it's tax on mobility and we the GCP wants to impose a tax on people but without asking and if you remember the great slogan from the United States Revolution no taxation without representation so where is this representation happening so in the GCP yes we have representatives who sit on the the body voting from the three councils the city the county and the district but there's also Cambridge University there now as wonderful and as Augusta an institution as Cambridge University is it's not a democratic body and it does not represent all the people in in Cambridge or in Cambridge so what we actually have is a Congo and a Congo that is partly democratic making decisions about taxing residents and that goes against the whole principle of democratic government now of course there have been instances where I voted on things so I was voted to be a member of this council largely by people who are opposed to the congestion judge now the conservatives may be the only party that is opposing the congestion judge but I spoke into very large numbers of people on the doorstep supporting all kinds of different political persuasions who are all very much opposed to it and all very much upset about it so the least we can do if we are going to disrupt people's lives in the way that is proposed is to actually ask people what they think and the best way of asking people is a referendum thank you Chair may I interrupt with the point of information here I believe I'm writing saying that the actual decision to implement a congestion judge will be made by the county council and not by the GCP which is a county council is a directly elected so I just wanted to make that clear to that point of information I now call councillor Graham Coe thank you chair I will be supporting this motion and the reason I'll be supporting it is because I've had vast amounts of correspondence from residents both through emails and verbally which I'm sure many other members would have had and those correspondence have been hugely broad so it's from individuals who live inside of the zone outside of the zone individuals that are lower paid equally doctors, nurses, teachers people that work in the science industry all of which have I've had correspondence from residents that I would not normally hear from around this issue so it's clearly something that people feel passionately about and as someone that works on the biomedical campus I know how fearful and upset people are about Edinburgh's hospital being included within the zone and many people that I speak to feel that through the local elections process that they weren't aware that the congestion charge was on the table they didn't feel that it was in political leaflets newspaper articles and being talked about before those elections they almost feel a little bit sort of hit-winged that they've been misled I think so I think in this instance allowing people to have their say would be entirely appropriate which is why I'll be back in this motion Thank you for that. Members before I call the next speaker I would like to just remind you that we will wind this up at four minutes to five although the mover will get a chance. I'm very keen for the seconder of the motion who has reserved his position also to get a chance to speak so I would urge those who I still have on my list to consider whether there is anything additional they want to say and to keep their comments brief. So I then call Councillor Richard Williams please. Thank you very much. I'll do my best to keep my comments brief. I am speaking to support this motion as we all know the congestion charge is a matter of considerable concern to all of our residents I like Councillor Cohn of being contacted by many residents who feel disenfranchised about the process they don't remember voting for local election candidates who said they would impose a congestion charge and for very good reason because there weren't any I would just say I don't think any political party should have anything to fear in fact I would imagine that the Labour and the Liberal Democrat parties have a lot to gain from a referendum it will get them off the hook that they have found themselves on so frankly if I was a Liberal Democrat or a Labour member I'd probably be very much in favour of a referendum it would get me out of the hole if I had managed to dig myself into of course the Conservative party opposes the congestion charge I'll just say a few other things to address some of the comments we've heard about the supposed problems with the referendum. Councillor Hoverhoke is absolutely right it will be the county council that will decide this what would the franchise be for a referendum it will be the same franchise as is used for a county council election so I think there is a logical problem in the arguments we've heard about young people being excluded people from Utdlesford being excluded people from Bedford being excluded they're excluded from county council elections people under 18 can't vote in a county council election so if a referendum is not acceptable because people under 18 can't vote then the decision by the county council is equally unacceptable because people under 18 can't vote in county council elections and neither can people in Utdlesford and other can people in Bedford so I think the argument that the referendum is acceptable because it somehow excludes people a decision by council is better it just doesn't stand up those same people are excluded from council elections so they have no more representation when it comes to a decision by the county council than they do if it would come to a referendum I would also say that the arguments that we shouldn't have a referendum for example because young people would be ignored does rely on the implicit assumption that the voters in Cambridgeshire are either too stupid or too selfish to take account of the interests of other people some of us have got children who may get a bus to a sexual and college we are capable when we vote in an election of thinking about the interests of other people we do it all the time we do it when we vote in general elections district council elections so the idea that the people of Cambridgeshire are not capable of considering the views of young people and other groups I just do not accept and for that reason I support a referendum, thank you thank you members we have a number of further speakers and I would remind you of our time constraints I would invite those on the list I have council Peter Sanford councillor Judith Ripeth councillor John Williams and then of course we have our seconder and proposer to speak so next on my list is councillor Peter Sanford thank you chair I understand the estimated budget for a standalone referendum of this type is £1.5 million £1.5 million £1.5 million I do not look forward to looking my residents in the eye and telling them I voted in favour of spending £1.5 million of council tax payers money on a referendum that essentially duplicates question 9 of the GCP's consultation I think we should wait for the GCP to complete their work in a scientific way and publish the information and if one of our councils has £1.5 million lying down the back of the sofa could they use it to fix more potholes please thank you councillor Judith Ripeth thank you my point is on disenfranchisement I won't as brief as I can because 16 to 18 year olds that's been covered very well as has people living outside the area of Cambridgeshire where this boundary for this referendum would have to lie within the county at some place what about the disenfranchisement of all the people who took part in the consultation and the point there is they didn't have to be 18 to take part in the consultation and you put in your postcode that's where you lived so that puts in the a much greater sort of understanding I think of the range of views concerning this matter rather than a yes no kind of vote and as we know these things are always more nuanced than a yes no question can possibly give and perhaps consider what the question might be something like would you like to see better public transport we seem to be forgetting about that side of this whole debate but my major concern I would not vote for this motion is you are simply disenfranchising large sways of people thank you for that and I now call councillor John Williams thank you chair making connections is not just the yes no matter the greater Cambridge partnership has just carried out the biggest and most wide-ranging consultation in history that led to over 23,000 responses it deliberately asked a range of open and close questions to ask people whether they supported the scheme which elements they did or didn't support what they might like to see done differently or what alternatives would propose this was intended to provide richer and more nuanced feedback than a simple yes no allowing decision makers to balance the wide range of different perspectives we have heard and we are still analysing these responses and we have a duty to read, understand and react to that feedback as councillor Rhyford has just mentioned so it is only right that we don't rush to conclusions but listen and take time to understand people's views and not prejudge the outcome the results of the consultation will be included in a final report on the proposals and next steps scheduled for the GCP Board in June this year at that time the GCP Board will make a recommendation to Cambridge Accounting Council on whether or not to proceed with a scheme and what that scheme should be and that is the point at which we should be asking people not now, it is too premature Thank you for that Councillor Williams and we now come to the seconder of the motion Councillor Dunlton Thank you Chair 15,000 signatures in favour of a referendum from residents of Cambridge and in order to sign that petition you had to provide your post but it wasn't like the consultation that could be done from anywhere anywhere 15,000 people have said they want a referendum and they expect a referendum so many arguments have been made in this room by people who five years ago five years ago you were busing yourselves down to London and asking for a second referendum on Brexit and apparently Brexit isn't as complicated as transport policy in one English county because that can be it would be impossible to say are you in favour of paying a massive new tax are you in favour of paying a massive tax in order to go to Edinburghx to access your healthcare and not just Edinburghx but all kinds of healthcare in small clinics across the city and across the county do you want to pay £5 to drive off your own driveway and those of you who don't drive and those of us who don't you say well everyone's going to be affected because all deliveries are going to be impacted by this new tax and the one thing we can all agree that we should have learnt from Brexit is when business turns around and says this is going to be really disruptive this is going to do a lot of damage we should actually listen to them a referendum is our chance to step back and do the right thing the thing that democratic people and democratic society should do we do not have a mandate and if this was a Lib Dem mandate I didn't know about it and I was a candidate our job is to represent the people for four years local services fit with local needs we do not have a mandate to impose a massive new tax a massive new burden on our fellow residents and if they turn around as they have done and say clearly that they want another referendum frankly who on earth are Cambridges Lib Dems to say no particularly after agitating for a second Brexit referendum for so long when you're in favour of referendums you campaign for them and when you know what the outcome will be you oppose them there's a word for that and it's not a polite one thank you thank you for that we are almost out of time for this debate and therefore I propose to proceed direct to the mover of the motion who has her time to move her motion thank you chair I won't go into the disenfranchisement of younger people because I think Councillor Richard Williams some that offer very well if you're going to have that argument then you're going to have it for county as well Councillor Drew the parochial I think I wouldn't use the word parochial to say those impacted the most particularly if you're living in the zone you will have more of an impact than others so have a wider network perhaps for it but I wouldn't say it's parochial I'd say it's targeting those that are going to be affected the most Councillor Carn said about it being complicated and having a bad experience if we didn't repeat bad experiences none of us would be sat in this chamber because we've all had days that we've left feeling a bit bruised by the comments of others etc and the whole point of us is we keep coming back for more Councillor Stamford you said about question 9 yes it was part on there but it wasn't referred to very explicitly I have to say I had to read it a few times the cost of the referendum as well got referred to I think people would quite happily crowdfund for it because it's a damn sight cheaper than what the proposals will mean for them you know that is nothing that's a marginal fraction of the cost that this will bring in from residents annually and nobody in this motion has said what the parameters would or wouldn't be we're talking about the concept of a referendum and a democratic process taking place mandate is the word that is said to me time and time again throughout the whole scenario who here put it on their election literature I know I did saying I wasn't for it look back are you really truly happy that you have a mandate I'd also say that it was quite accurate to hear Councillor Bygott's reflections of the long-standing by-election all parties were upset that is why a referendum would be the most appropriate thing in my view because this transcends party politics you're whistling people and that really opposes across the political spectrum now if you want the multi-vote conservative that's fine good luck to you on that one but really that's the point of referendum when it's something that's so big and affects everybody so much that you have this this mechanism to deal with that Councillor Cohn referenced about a broad spectrum of people and I just very quickly chair go through some of the correspondence that I've had I've had carers that live particularly in Grunchester that's worried about going in and out of the zone every day to care for their elderly relative I've had a business contact me to say they are not relocating to South Cambershire they are going elsewhere because of the threat of this charge and they will not invest here hearing of recruitment problems for companies while this is hanging over their heads and I also made the point recently and I've heard from somebody that has physical disabilities but they can walk just far enough to not have a blue badge those people would not be exempt through the proposals going forward also there is a lot that can be decided in that process setting the wording here or the parameters it's the principle of whether you are going to allow people a vote and a say on this issue or not we've heard the word nuanced it's very nuanced said a lot I can tell you what a lot of people that speak to me say when they hear that they feel insulted they feel their intelligence insulted as others have covered as Councillor John Williams says about preempting this is not preempting the outcomes of anything this is saying that whatever the outcome any outcome at all that we will make sure that people get the final say and if you don't support this today there is one very clear message that you are sending to people we know better than you what's good for you and it's as simple as that if we tell people that they can't understand that's why we've got why are we so different to them they're the ones that put us here in the first place thank you chair thank you that concludes our debate before we take a formal vote on this I'm just going to read out to you a part of the motion to remind you what we are being asked to do here this council will write to the leader of Cambridge County council expressing this council's support for our referendum on the introduction of a sustainable travel charge otherwise known as the Cambridge congestion charge we now come to the vote and I think it is essential that we take that formally could you set up the vote for us please I think members know that if you support the motion you vote on the green button if you oppose it you vote on the red button we'll just wait a moment there may be one possibly two members who have yet to vote is there anyone present who wants to take part in this vote who has not yet been able to do so we'll just take a moment longer thank you Aaron so the result is that that motion is defeated with 20 votes against 18 favour and one abstention now I'm sure members will understand that those who felt the need to leave the room earlier would like to come back for the remaining items so we'll just have a moment or two in fact I think I see a request for a few moments so we'll reconvene at 17.05 that's all right thank you very much thank you so thank you very much to councillor for covering that item we're now on item 16 and amusingly enough it's chair's engagements there have been no engagements since the last meeting and I just wanted to let you know that the next council meeting will be the annual meeting of the district council and that will be held on 25th May at 2pm so I'd like to thank everybody who is still here and those who took part earlier on and I'd just like to say thank you very much this is my last chairing as it were of full council until the AGM okay thank you