 Happy Aloha Friday and welcome to a brand new episode of SpectreZone Global Justice Think Back Hawaii. This is your host Beatrice Cantelmo. Today, we will be conversing with the guest Holger Hain about how digital technology is being used for social good changes in our community and across the globe. Let's learn about a very special app that Holger is developing with other partners to assist Alzheimer's patients, their caregivers and family members. And we will also learn about a different app development that he is also involved with that will increase healthcare provider's ability to identify the best cost-efficient medication options for follow-up treatments for patients on limited income. Well, thank you so much for being with us here today. It's great to be here. Thank you for having me. Yes, and so far, viewers, would you mind giving a little blurb about you? Like where do you come from? What is your educational and professional background? Well, I'm European, I was born and raised in Germany, and as a young man, I had the opportunity to come to the United States, California, San Francisco of all places, and I never left for 30 years, so I lived most of my adult life in San Francisco Bay Area. And then three years ago, we moved to Hawaii. So you're brand new in Hawaii. Pretty much, yeah. And so now you're doing work. So you are a doctor. Do you mind telling our viewers what kind of doctor you are and what kind of work you've been developing in the digital technology field? My PhD is in philosophy, so I'm a philosopher. I received a PhD from the University of Melbourne in Australia, and they give me a full scholarship to do my PhD. Lucky you. Well, I had to work for it. It was in recognition of a book that I translated into English. Oh. It was a book that was destroyed by the Nazis. There were only like 12 copies in existence, while still are really of the original. And I was able to find a copy at UC Berkeley Library, and with encouragement from other faculty, I went ahead and translated that, and that in turn prompted the Australian Research Council and the University of Melbourne to give me the scholarship. In philosophy, I'm a historian of philosophy, I'm interested in the history of ideas and how we come to think the way we do today and how come the people thought different things 200 years ago. And in that broad field, my expertise is actually history of logic, mathematics. So a perfect foundation for the cutting edge digital technology work that's being developed now. So how did you get involved with digital technology? Well, my partner Suzanne and I, we started a website design company some 20 years ago in San Francisco. In fact, we started one year before there was Google. No way. This is sort of prehistoric times in terms of the internet or I'm really old in terms of internet. Whichever way. What was it like to actually launch a website a year before Google? Yeah, it was interesting. And I mean, San Francisco is very tech positive kind of community, but I remember talking to people, trying to convince them to get email right now we have fax, who needs email right? I have a fax. You know, I'm all good. Don't bother me with these new tangles. Who needs emails when you have fax? I remember I had, I had fax like near my house and I would send faxes to a few friends. It was the thing, you know, back in the day, I remember we had these printer scanner things that you could send a fax to and they were like, yay. Right. And they costed a fortune and they were defending where you sent it, you know. Wow, so here we are. So that's where we started and then I would come a little bit out of the event industry so that led us into this business. But early on already, we started doing, we were interested in work for community-oriented purposes. So we built websites for the Columbia Foundation. It's a huge grant maker in San Francisco. It's connected to Levi Strauss and the Haas family. So I did their website. That was an early project. You know, 20 years in the business, we were able to move towards projects that we find personally also rewarding and where we know they do some good in the world or make things a little better for somebody. And that's very important. Many years as a business owner, we would try to increase commerce turnover, you know, help people sell this or that. But fortunately over time, we were able to transition to projects that are more rewarding on a personal level and also are more meaningful for others. Right. And that's such a privilege to be able to shift from that model of creating a product or profit where you still can make a living, but there is this need and there is also a window where you can link people and to create good, social good. So the part of the title of our show today is Digital Technology for Social Good and Changes. Yes. So let's talk about that, you know, you're working with, I'm imagining, a few projects. Yes. Yes. Too many sometimes. Right. So which one would you like to share? Well, there are two major projects that are at the center of what we're doing at the moment. The one is an app that is designed to help people with memory problems. And in particular, who we have in mind, people with early stage or mild stage Alzheimer's. So they're functioning, but they already have substantial memory problems, right. And there we're working with a professor of geriatric medicine here at U of H, Dr. Warren Wong. And he was one of your shows here at the station. And it's a very rewarding, but also very difficult problem project to work on because of the nature of the target group, you know. You can't assume that people will know which button to click or what certain things mean. And so we had to work very carefully on the user interface design because, I mean, we wanted to be enjoyable to the patient or the person with memory problems as well. So I know that there are a few apps in the market already that's targeted to this community. So what is the difference, the promise that you're bringing with this new app development? What distinguishes or what is the vision of what you're developing now with what is already currently in the market? All right. Well, one thing that sets us apart. I mean, there are many great products, mostly focusing on improving brain health or like puzzles and certain games, right. But they tend to be generic. So what we're doing is we're developing something like an electronic photo album using pictures out of the person's life and incorporating them in a game-like environment to reinforce the memories. So very customized and they will actually probably most likely react to it, have an immediate recognition because it comes from their life. It was one of the most rewarding experiences in developing an app when we go test and these moments of delight and surprise because most folks, many of them, we're battling this thing of just using technology. And once we get them there to see pictures of their loved ones, usually it's pets or grandchildren. So there's little niece, Emmy, and she appears in one of the pictures, oh, there's my niece or my grandchild. And people lighten up. You can see it. The face, the smile comes up and then they click away and see what's next. And that is so great to see this moment of joy and in a very difficult situation because those folks know that their memory is going. I mean, it's not an anonymous process. You're aware of it and there's a lot of frustration. And a lot of shame and also frustration. And I actually can relate quite well to what you say, my hanae fada, which became my hanae fada here in Hawaii, one of my first jobs in Hawaii actually was to do functional assessment evaluations on individuals who had vascular dementia or Alzheimer's. I need to figure out where were their baseline in terms of memory loss and also make recommendations on whether they would need more support, assistive technology, more support with people in their homes, or if they needed to be transitioned into a nursing facility for memory loss department. So one of the many clients I evaluated, I don't know who it was, but when I started interviewing him, it was like flat. There was nothing there and I wasn't sure how far gone he was, but I did look at his library and there were several books on anthropology. I had no idea who the man was. Then there were dictionaries in Portuguese, Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese. So I started asking him questions in Portuguese, in Italian, and in Spanish. And it was like a dislike bulb in his mind because he recollected a lot of things from his own childhood. He lived in Brazil for a couple of years and he also lived in Italy as an older adult man with his fast wife. And he also did a lot of work in South America as an anthropologist before he started to focus more on Pacific region and studies. So it was really hard because with the things we had available, we couldn't engage him, but we had to customize it. He wrote books and so I would pick passages of the books and read and say, hey, tell me about this pasta, what this pasta was, what this time in life was like in Tahiti or Hawaii. And all of a sudden he used to be a professor of anthropology at UH Manoa and all of a sudden he was giving lectures again. And about for the entire week, he was just pretty much looking in the air. And one of the things his wife would tell me was that those small moments where he could recognize pictures and names and places and memories, they were quite accurate actually. I actually started testing him and see how much he remembered, what he wrote. Now it would have been like 90% accurate because he really did the work and said, I know he did not fake your books, you really worked on your books, but they feel good. He had this rush of endorphins and the dopamine neurotransmitters and so for a couple of days his effect was happier as opposed to the gloomy sad, depressed and frustrated views that he used to have. So I'm really excited to see your app coming. So it's supposed to help the patients. Yes. And so you have a way for them to customize picture album and all the things from their past. But what about for the caregiver and the relatives? How would that app, how can they connect with the app and with their loved one through the app? Yes. So exactly issues we have been facing. So in developing this we realize there's really three roles that take part of it. One is the administrator, that's, we think of the person who configures the app, uploads the pictures, provides the information and so that's a very important role. Then we find it's very attractive for folks who have separated by distance. They live on the east coast, but their parent or somebody is in a home here, but we also try to bring a connection into play. We call it the memory and connection app. And so what we do is that folks can send little messages with the upload a new picture. Hey, here's a picture of Uncle John I uploaded. Do you remember him? What do you like him? Or what do you remember about him? Sometimes funny what comes back because like I said, people remember bits often of a more distant past when they were younger, but then the memory is crystal clear. It's amazing. So we're trying to support the connection part and the other role is the caregiver. There's often professional caregivers who spend so much time every day with the person. They have no idea about what that person's life in the past was. Exactly. So there's one, we dealt with different, so it allows a glimpse into the person's life. And we found it works really well as a conversation tool, so to speak. So there's a game sequence, but you can stop any time and talk about the picture or what happened and things like that. So we found that that is a very positive effect of the app and it works really nicely in this kind of setting where two people play through the app and talk about it, whatever comes up. And again, it's often about not so much about being right about the facts. They're very different therapeutic approaches. We are going with what's called emotional validation. So we don't confirm wrong answers, but we also don't penalize for it. We just want to continue the process of the game and we direct people as long as they tap away on things, we guide them to the right answer. We need to take one minute break and then we'll jump right into this conversation again. Sounds great. Hi, I'm Rusty Komori, host of Beyond the Lines on Think Tech, Hawaii. My show is based on my book, also titled Beyond the Lines, and it's about creating a superior culture of excellence, leadership, and finding greatness. I interview guests who are successful in business, sports, and life, which is sure to inspire you in finding your greatness. Join me every Monday as we go Beyond the Lines at 11 a.m. Aloha. Hi, I'm Mabuhay. My name is Amy Ortega Anderson, inviting you to join us every Tuesday here on Pinoy Power, Hawaii. With Think Tech, Hawaii, we come to your home at 12 noon every Tuesday. We invite you to listen, watch for our mission of empowerment. We aim to enrich, enlighten, educate, entertain, and we hope to empower. Again, maraming, salamat po, Mabuhay, and aloha. Happy Aloha Friday. Welcome back to Perspectives on Global Justice, Think Tech, Hawaii. This is your host, Beatrice Cantalbo, and we are here with Holger Hein. So, Holger, we were talking about emotional validation in the context of this beautiful app that's been developed to support Alzheimer's patients and their caregivers and family members. So, let's continue. Well, emotional validation is important, and there I'm relying on Warren, Dr. Wong's expertise, and he encouraged us to develop prototypes to test how we can assist, and there is a great deal of frustration, usually, in people with memory problems. We know it ourselves. I mean, sometimes things are on the tip of our tongue, and we get angry with ourselves. How come I can't think of that name? Right. Yeah. I have that. And I go, oh my God, it's Alzheimer's. Well, don't worry. I think that's part of normal functioning that we don't recall everything all the time. Probably a good thing. Right. Anyway, it becomes a cause of frustration, right? And we wanted to at least relay the message and the feeling, look, it's important what you feel, and we do care. So we're incorporating things that involve a little bit of AI. We're developing something of a chatbot that begins to know the person as they speak with them. And we call it the chatbot Suzanne. Just to give a name, make it personal, we have some pictures, and Suzanne now asks simple things, like what did you have for breakfast, or what did you eat today, or what do you prefer for lunch or dinner, what's your favorite meal, how's the weather? What do you do on a rainy day? But also we ask things, what do you do when you're sad? So this is something other apps shy away from. But we feel it's part of the reality of dealing with this decline. Absolutely. We found that it's actually a good thing for people to be able to say, no, I feel horrible today. I mean, it's not what you want, but you want to acknowledge the emotional state that they're in. Right? And say, yeah. And plus, like, well, if you're having a bad day, whether you're feeling bad and you know, upset, frustrated, and you have somebody trying to tear you up when you already gave the cue that you're not feeling, it's not going to go too good, right? Because, I mean, feelings are fluid and they won't last for forever. But I imagine that this is not only good for the person who is feeling what they're feeling. We should be entitled to continue to own our own feelings. Whatever they are, any age in any mental state we're at. But also for those around us to be a little bit more cognizant of it, neither make some small adjustments or big ones. Well, it is a fact that relatives and loved ones learn how to deal with a person who has this terrible disease. You'll be surprised though. Some people really, especially I've seen that in caregiving settings where there's always the cheerful people, which is very positive. But there is a time and sometimes that part of, you know, just giving a little time for that person to process that feeling and maybe redirecting with something less forceful might be more helpful because then people go from being sad to combative or angry. I know for myself, I don't care whether my brain will work the way it is if I have Alzheimer's someday. But I think that's like the old part of limbic system where if you are, you know, triggered in a room way, you're going to react a certain way. But it's part of dignity, I think, to be able to still have that space, be allowed, because you have some little control at that point in your life. I mean, our approach is we're aiming to improve the quality of life, maybe create a little bit of joy, happiness while playing with this thing, remembering stuff. So we're not there to correct their memory, you know, or anything like that, or deny what they're feeling. Folks are not asked enough in a sincere way how they're really feeling. So we have this little mechanism and we're going to build this out a little bit more so we can also relay data to professional caregivers. So if somebody has a terrible mood for a whole week, maybe it's worth, you know, a conversation. Whereas if you see normal variants, you know, they are happy tomorrow, and so-so, you know, that's the more, you know, to be expected, different moods, then that we would consider normal. But it allows us to flag certain, you know, ongoing issues. I have an invitation. You guys should develop an extended app for family members and co-workers. You know, it's one thing we realized is there's a vast amount of apps, say, for people with attention problems, you know, young people, I can't think of the name right now, but they tend to be very rigid in their social behavior, Asperger syndrome and related stuff. So there's a whole bunch of research and therapies for people with Alzheimer's and this mid-level to early memory loss. There's very little. So we're trying to address that. And that includes the surrounding environment of the person. So family loved ones, caregivers, professionals. But we also, we are startups, so we are focusing on what's called an MVP. You know, just get the main important things into the app and get them to work properly, you know. And then you can always add. So where are you at in this app development? So I've seen you have a prototype. Yes, we do. And you've been doing a pilot with a group. Like how many people have you guys checked with and for how long? The app is in the app store, both for iPhone and iPad. Outstanding. And we have about 150 installs at this point. We mark it and we decided to focus on Hawaii because it's a beautiful sort of contained community that we find manageable rather than trying to go nationwide right now. Any plans to go nationwide? Yes, the app will grow. Yes, and it's international. So we have people downloading it in England. It's only as English speaking version right now. So that's one of the things we're looking at. Chinese, Japanese. Other languages, yeah. Other languages in there. But so we're focusing on Hawaii and Oahu because it also allows us to meet with folks. It's not your typical app development in the sense that we're really dealing with a serious medical situation. And progressive. We're grateful. We need the consent of the family and the institution wherever they are so before we can go in and try the app with them and observe them. But that's very important for us that we have what's called monitor testing where you sit down with folks and watch what they do with the app. And so the app is in the app store. We will release a new version very soon, which has some new features. Can you tell the name of the app for our viewers who might be interested in downloading? Right. The name is Memor C. That's M-E-M-O-R-C. Like vitamin C, but Memor C. Memor C, OK. And you can find it in Apple's app store for iPhone and iPad. Excellent. Wow, so this is a really exciting project. And how long have you been working on this app development collaboratively, Dr. Wang, right? Yes, Dr. Warren Wang. It's about two years now or maybe a little longer. I mean, it started as a discussion and I called Dr. Warren, because we're working together. He had this vision. He had this idea. And he thought, oh, this might work. But if he's not a coder, he's a doctor. He cares for his patients. He's done it all his life. And so through the Impact Hub, which is also a familiar term for many reviews. Yes, it's a lovely magical co-working space where people just spark ideas in partnerships. Exactly. And that's how we connected through another party. And we talked. And I said, oh, look, maybe we can build a little demo or just some screens. And that's how that started. Oh, beautiful. Just to bring it to life. So you can, as always, a different thing. Having an app idea in your mind. I mean, I'm an app developer. Everybody tells me, oh, I have this killer idea. Can we build this? But most ideas are not that well thought out or they're not familiar with the competing products. They may not translate into all this possible in the computer realm in the world. So you're working on a different app also to support health care providers and patients. That's right. Is that app developed or already developed? That's a little much earlier stage. So there we're exploring briefly the concept for the app is to help, especially underserved patients at hospitals. Basically, folks who show up at emergency rooms get treatment, often not able to afford prescription medicines. We are developing an app or a kiosk that would allow them to find the lowest possible cost for their prescriptions using various resources. So often, there's funding available or there's support available. But unfortunately, the group that it's aimed for, I mean, there's folks who come to the emergency rooms repeatedly, often they are just not really able to fill out the forms or know where to look. They just see, oh, this thing costs $500 or $200. No way, right? So we're developing a system that applies all the available benefits. And we had some examples where medications that was $2,000 came down to $17,000. Oh, you mentioned that. You know, so it's this crazy thing about America. The pharmaceutical company does not love you at the moment. Well, I just want to help people. OK, and these things are all in place. It's more about helping find what's already there. It's almost like finding grants for this purpose or something. Exactly. We are fortunate enough to live in a very wealthy country. And there's resources nobody else has. But there are also many obstacles to accessing these resources or the funds. So that's more my role. It has digital technology for such a good. This is one example. Basically, I did. Right. You got it, yeah. That is beautiful. I can't believe that we are out of time. Already? Already. How did that happen? However, I want to invite you again in the near future to continue to talk about it. A little bit more about this wonderful app that you're developing for patients and caregivers, health care professionals. Because I think we need to hear more of that and older projects that might be in the backbone. Yes. And yes, I mean, I'm very grateful that you're here with us today. And thank you for the beautiful heart and mind that you have for making that connection between mind and heart and say, let's make this and manifest it to something beautiful out there in the universe that people need and benefit. So good to see you. Well, thank you. Much loving gratitude. So one last thing is MemoriesConnect.com is the website where you can learn more about this culture. So MemoriesConnect.com, all right? Well, that's all folks. And thank you so much for watching us. And see you in two weeks, a hui hou.