 I'm going to call this meeting to order. Chairman Hanna will not be attending attendance this evening. That's why I'll be running the meeting. So call to order this committee of the whole meeting. Roll call, please. All right. Belt. Here. Horan. Here. Carlson. Here. Decker. Excuse. Hammond. Here. Hanna. Excuse. Heidemann. Here. Coth. Here. Hiddleston is here. Maddachek. Here. Rinflaich. Here. Reisler. Here. Samson. Excuse. Van Akron. Here. Vanderweel. Here. And Versi. Excuse. Excuse. We have one, two, three. 12 members of our council are here. We have a quorum. All right, thank you. Please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And TV tonight. We are televised this evening. It is not live, I don't believe. But yes, we'll be televised. Looking for approval of the previous minutes? To move. Second. Motion made in second for approval. All in favor say aye. Aye. Chair votes aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Review, discussion, and possible action on tentative redistricting map for city of Sheboygan. Sue, I believe that's going to be you. Good evening, everybody. I feel weird being down here and not timing myself up there. We'll give you more than five minutes. Yes. We can start the watch. Would you like the additional minute? Would you like your extra minute? Yes, I do need an extra minute. We will give you the six minutes, but not too much. I know how it feels. I totally know how it feels. What we're going to do tonight is I gave you the map at the last council meeting, which was a shrunken version of your presence you have on your table right now, which is a bigger one you can read. This is a map that the county clerk Julie Glancy, who is here with us tonight, which is wonderful, because she can give us a history of how we do the redistricting. That is the result, as of now, of where we're at. And we're going to talk about the deadlines that we have to meet, talk about the wards in the districts, et cetera. So what we'll do is I gave you a handout, this one right here, that just kind of summarized everything we're going to talk about tonight. So I'll let Julie start and just give you a little bit of history on what the process is, because I'm sure many of you have not been through the redistricting process, so I think it's important, sorry, that you know. Julie? All right. Well, what I'm sure you do know is that we do this once every 10 years. We're required to do that after the census. And we have a couple of requirements that we need to follow in terms of size of wards. Of course, whenever you redistrict, your goal is equal population for every one of your districts, not necessarily size, but population for your districts. And when we start the process, the county is really supposed to draw their supervisory districts first. That's the plan we have April and May to get that done. Then the county adopts what's called their tentative redistricting plan, which we did at our May County Board meeting. And then it gets passed on to the municipalities to draw war lines and for cities to create aldermanic districts. Sue and I did it a little bit backwards for the city of Sheboygan, simply because we knew going in that the number of aldermen wasn't going to change. You were going to stay with the 16 aldermen with eight districts. The county, based on a decision made by our redistricting committee, opted to go with 10 supervisors from the city of Sheboygan instead of the 16 we currently have, because we're reducing the size of the board. And that in combination with the fact that the city did actually lost population, where the rest of the county grew in population, dropped you down from 16 to 10 supervisors in the city. So we knew going in that our county board supervisors were going to end up with all but four of them next April, having to run against one of their fellow supervisors if they all choose to run again for a county board. So we wanted to make sure that the aldermanic districts, which were staying the same, would contain the two aldermen they currently have within those districts. And we felt that was the easiest way to go, because we needed to divide the city of Sheboygan not only into eight equal aldermanic pieces, but then take those pieces and divide them into 10 equal county board supervisory pieces. We did that, and we ended up with a total of 23 wards. And that looks a little bizarre, but you have to remember that we have to cut the pieces smaller, because I have to take two pieces from over here and add it to this supervisory district and things like that. We also had to watch for the fact that wards in the city cannot be more than 3,200 people. So we couldn't create larger wards. We had to cut wards up a little bit more. So we had hoped to stay with 24, and we actually made 23 wards. And Sue's gonna talk, I think, a little more about the polling locations and how that's gonna impact your elections. But we really worked on this and tried to make it so that we would have a large ward and then two smaller wards that we could combine into one polling location so that you wouldn't end up with hopefully more than the 16 polling locations you currently have because that would be significantly expensive for you to outfit an additional poll because you're required by a lot to have the election equipment at every polling place. So that would be expensive. So we tried to keep you to the 16 polling places that you had. You have, as a city, until July to enact your ward plan and ultimately your aldermatic district plan. Then once you're finished with that, it gets sent back to the county by July 22nd and the county has two months then until September to enact their final supervisory district plan. The reason we start with a tentative plan and go to a final is that if you look at the plan and you say, you know what, I think that line, instead of going down this street, you go down the other street, you're within your right to change that as long as you leave the county board's supervisory districts with the correct population. You can't create a situation where we suddenly have 100 or 200 fewer people in a supervisory district than we did before. You can move it a little bit and tweak it but you can't necessarily reinvent the wheel. But in case you do have some changes you wanna make, I know that Sue is looking at renumbering your wards a little bit. So you're gonna take care of all that and when it comes back to the county, then we use what you've adopted and enacted to enact our final supervisory district plan. Questions about that? Queries? Any questions for anybody? No? Okay, gotta get my glasses on for this. If you just follow along, I'm just giving you the key points in what is happening right now. The census information, I'm sure most of you know that it came in at 49,288 per population. The proposed plan that you have in front of you, the large map. It has eight automatic districts. It has 16 older people. It has 16 polling locations, 23 wards. And every district will have three wards with the exception of district seven. They will have two. Don't get excited, it's the same population. And then the next thing I did was I broke it down by district so that you know the aldermen are paired. I kinda call it pairing up. I'm not giving numbers except for the district number. If you look at district one, that would be Alderman Hannon-Raisler with a population for the whole district, mind you. 61, 36, and you go right down the list. Alderman Versi Carlson. And then we have Alderman Vanderwill-Van Akron and I'm not gonna read them all cause you can read those. Basically you can see that it's basically 6,100 for most of them in that range and district eight is a little higher. I did that just for you Alderman Bourne. Then I have a list of the eight districts who would be up, their term would be up next year. So you can see for district one through eight which one of the aldermen, their term would be up. All the other aldermen that's matching in your pairs were elected this year, this election. So that's working out pretty nice. Then let's go to the next page. Now I don't know if you all want to pull your maps out or is it too big to do? I don't know if I'm gonna be heard if I move, probably not. Yeah, basically what we did was we had them blow up a mega map so that you could see it and the TV audience could see it. Basically the colored map that you have has eight district divisions and 23 ward divisions. The solid black lines indicate the districts. The colored block areas indicate each ward so you'll see a different color for each ward. The district numbers are set one through eight. However, I've not done the Aldermanic Ward numbers yet. That's coming. We need to have an ordinance that will be drafted with the legal description of each of the 23 wards to submit to the July 5th council meeting. It will lie over to July 18th and it will be submitted to the county by their deadline of July 22nd. The polling locations will be added later as we will be deleting, adding, and combining current locations so as to accommodate all 23 wards. That's important because with 23 wards, we have 16 locations now. We are equipped with machinery for 16. As Julie said, if we go to more than that, we're talking a major expense for the city and we're trying to avoid that. So what I'm looking at is possibly deleting some of the very tiny polling locations for example, I don't wanna say. I'll get people upset already. A very small location. We may take them and put them nearby in a very large location and have two wards in that location because it's a huge room and we can have, it's good parking and that's what we're looking at. So we're still working on that. It's not done yet. The Shookert Farms annexation that we just did. There's a population of three people there. That will be added to district four. So if you can see on the map here, Julie, if you wanna show the pink, the big pink area there, that Shookert is the white right there. So that will all be going into four, district four. Then we will have combined all of our annexations in probably for the rest of the year. We don't anticipate there's anything coming down the pike, excuse me, down the pike. So everything will be starting fresh as of January one. Like I said, the deadline is really important to submit to the county by July 22nd. The map or the plan won't be in effect until January one of 12. So it will be in effect for next year's election cycle. What I see is one of the major things with this. Question. Yes. If it goes into effect on January 1st of 2012, we take out our nomination papers on the first week of December. Are we supposed to go out and get signatures in our area that we have right now? You do it in your new area. In the new area. Really for your new area. Yep. All right. And then we will have like Alderman Born and I talked this morning or yesterday morning, whichever it was, about getting individual district maps so that you will know what your district boundaries are rather than carrying this around, going down the neighborhoods, you might look a little silly, but you'll have a separate map with that. Plus, okay, as we get to it, plus the ordinance that we have to draft, we'll have what we call, it's a legal description. What it is, is you go east from the lake to this street. You go south here, whatever it is, that will describe every part of your district boundary. If you notice on the map, we worked really hard to get on center on these wards. I know if you look at the last map from 10 years ago, the borders are horrendous. I mean, they're all over the place. So we worked really hard to get everything as straight and as even as we could, just so that it would be easier for you to campaign and it would also be easier to describe that district if someone says, do I live on the east side of the street, west side, who represents me, what polling place do I go to? Like I said before, the biggest thing that I see will be the education of the public. I think that's gonna be huge. We need to help them understand that they possibly will be in a new district and ward number, the names of their older persons and their polling location will be number one because I can see potential for, whenever you do a change like this, people just struggle with that. So we have some plans on what to do as far as education. Yes. Question. That's what I was gonna ask if you had a plan for what. Well, we're working on it. The education will happen probably in the, we don't wanna do it too soon because people will forget. So it'll be later in the fall, again before the election cycle starts and thereafter everyone, just to remind people, we believe that the state database will be kicking out postcards when the redistricting goes into effect that will actually be sent to all voters saying, this is where you vote, this is your district, on and on. So we don't know for sure, but right now it looks like that every voter will get some kind of. It appears that that's, we believe that. Communication. We've been told that. Here's your new. Yeah. Or current. Somebody has to do that. We can't believe the state yet. We also, 10 years ago, we published that insert that's in the paper, every election. What we did 10 years ago was we published individual maps of every district so that voters could look at, without looking at a big city and trying finding themselves. We did each individual district so they could look at that and figure out where they needed to go. So we really do try and get the information out there to them. And we also, with the polling locations, as soon as we secure some new locations which we're looking at in your area to get some polling down in that area and way in the south side, you're in Eric's area. As soon as we have that all figured out and we figured out who we're taking out, who we're adding, then what we will do is have it plotted on this map. We'll have the polling locations. We don't want to plot them yet until we know, otherwise I'm just wasting engineering time to do it. So I want to have a whole list of where we're going with this. So the next plotting will be the polling locations, which I said might take a few months for us to secure new ones and figure that whole thing out. But this was a horrendous project and thank God Julie was there to help with it because she's been through this before. We sat for Saturdays just going through and we try every different direction and see which way it would go and work. And finally we found it, we figured it out, we started in the upper left-hand corner I believe was our final one that we did and it just started to pull into place. So I hope you're happy with it. I think that this is a good map. This is a really good district map and I don't think it's going to disrupt a lot. You've lost some of your constituents and you've gained some. So, and there's no way around that. There's just no way around it. So I guess, are there any questions before I wrap this five minute thing up? I guess what we'd be looking for or I would be looking for is for this committee because we are on a time thing. I'd be looking for this committee to recommend having a draft ordinance drawn so that we can submit it to the July 5th meeting and then we'll take care of putting all the legals in and everything so we can get it through by the 22nd. Now the recommendation, if that's the will of this committee to direct the attorney McLean to draft that legislation or that documentary talking about, does that need to go to the council first? It'll go to the council and we probably will just lie it over to the 18th of July and it'll be passed and then we'll get it over to Julie's office right after the meeting. I see Alderman Hammond had a question. Nope, I was just going to make the motion. Okay, before you do. I know in some cities and some areas redistricting certainly is causing quite a headache beyond just the formalities of adding, counting people and drawing lines and so on. I want to give my compliments though when I see this map and see boundaries that are relatively straight. Isn't that wonderful? Right forward. The questions of seemingly three corners are in one district but I have the fourth corner and you see competitive science I guess is eliminated. I also like it's not a question of who lives within the districts. It's straight and easy lines that people within the district have easy access to their vote and they're all like that as well. As you can see if you look at the map, I see top district one, seven and eight down below. The gerrymandering is only because of our outside city boundaries and nothing to do with their inside city boundaries and everything else looks fairly clean and straight so I thank you for doing so. You're welcome. For those if this is passed that are no longer in my district I thank you for your support and those that are coming in, I apologize in advance. We did, Alderman Carlson and I talked a little bit about the logistics of people with their signs already made up. Their numbers are gonna be different. How do we handle this and Alderman Carlson made a good suggestion, Alderman Boren did too that he's done this in the past where if you have elect so-and-so for district whatever you can get a little label or sticker or something and just slap that on there, still use your signs. Duck tape works fantastic. Duck tape, whatever works. And it's best friend. And obviously we'll be changing business cards and things like that, that will happen down the road. Alderman Hammond, you had a motion? I would make the motion, we direct the city attorney to draft an ordinance and send it to council reflecting Ms. Richards' plan. Second. We have a motion and a second to basically approve the plan. Thank you so much. Is there any other discussion regarding this issue? See none, all in favor of that motion say aye. Aye. Chair votes aye, opposed? Motion carries. Oh thank you Alderman. We'll take care of it. Any questions, you can always come up to my office. Before we move on I will give everyone a chance to roll up their map. Slightly like the area of the red area you gained. Is it a different number? All right, moving on. Next we'll have the presentation by IT manager Dave Augusten, Audiovisual Process Demo. Looks like this may be a minute or two yet. Are you ready? Yeah, well, just about. Setting up, I'll give you a fantastic run down on the river for- The floor is yours. Layout in the room, thank you council members. Little while ago I was given the task of outfitting our council chamber room to set it up for Audiovisual to display our agendas up on the walls so we could start to look and work towards a paperless process. So what I have done is contacted three vendors to get some quotes on equipment. Currently we selected Camera Quarter and right now along with us tonight is Alan Hamere from Camera Corner who has graciously got some equipment so we can run through the demo. You know, run through a demo to give you a look and feel as far as how it will work. Tonight we're projecting on the back wall that's not our intent for the design but because of logistics and where we could broadcast for all of you to see this is what we're gonna do for this evening to give you the gist of the demo and how it will work. What our intent is for our technology is we're gonna equip each corner with a screen. Alan, that was 80 by 50, correct? Our screen size was 80 by 50? 80 inch by 50, correct. 80 inch by 50 inch. We would have two projectors on the back walls and broadcasting crisscross to each screen so that way both sides can see and then we were gonna equip up in front with two monitors so that way the chairs in front can also see. All the screens in the corners and the monitors will be showing the same picture so it isn't like that's gonna show one thing and that's gonna show another and they're all gonna be showing the same picture or the same thing. It will then be in Sue's position where we'll have a computer setup where we can pull up the documents, the agendas so that way we can show as we walk through them for the council members. The whole intent of the process to start forward or the initial setup would be to out on the website put a link so that way you'll be able to go, Sue would put the documents agenda, all supporting documents out on the website. You'd be able to go there the Friday before, retrieve them, pick them up, copy them down to your laptop so you can review them in your own comfort at home or wherever, kick up on the chair, whatever, put your feet up and that way then you can be prepared for council meeting on that Monday. Now will those documents, I know that we have the wireless hookup now for public and I have not been able to actually access it through my wifi and my phone yet or my laptop. Would that be something that all the persons or the public could bring and go through the particular items on their laptop? Cause I know the question comes from Consent Agenda, item or documents are enacted rapidly. A lot of things are going through that if those wish to go through and pull them up without printing them out, we could actually do it here, is that correct? That would be an option. We do a public wireless here where we would get out to the same site or when you're at home, you could pull them down to your device and then your computer and bring it in as well. Okay, so at home anybody could see the agenda up front, see the documents up front and all we're showing here that is as we go through, that's what we're showing here. Right, okay. And I also have an example made up where we can then also show you, give you a look outside how it would work too. So it'll be to the public access. Then the other link we'd have is for history. So all the history council meetings would have then a tab for this meeting, the next meeting's in a row so that way they'd have the original agenda, the minutes, as well as in all the supporting documents for that as well, so that way we can go back for historical purposes and look and review. So if you need to check on something, that would be available as well. Sorry, which is actually something that we don't have the ability to do. Correct. And if we're tying into previous documents, we can actually look that up then. Now we're not talking about any equipment for, a computer equipment for the older persons, we would have to use our own. Right. At this point in time, but we would have the access to do so. Correct. Pull up previous documents to the question of, I don't see the attached, whatever, we can look at that attached agenda. Okay, thank you. Sure. The other part with this, and I mean, there's a couple different flavors, which I'll be moving over there to show you and walk through shortly while Alan's still getting set up is how it started out is we were just gonna show the agenda then go through the consent agendas and all that. What we're doing, Alan and I, we're providing the technology to help with this paperless workflow, but the key to it is it's still a workflow and a process that we have to together fine tune to see what works the best for everybody. I can't emphasize that enough. As far as it's a workflow where we all have to agree and work through it, it's a process. With the equipment, I know the finance committee has given their recommendation of approval to purchase it. However, I am in no rush, or I'll be in as much of a rush as council members are to go out and get it until it's the process is perfect and we're ready to go. It isn't like something I wanna go out and buy and say, here we go, and then it's not. I wanna get it perfected first, so it's another point I just wanted to let everybody know, and that's why we're here tonight doing a demo so we can walk through. You can get a gist of the process, and we can go from there, okay? Okay, I'm gonna switch gears and come over to here and I'm gonna borrow my mic. Testing, sorry. So, in addition to having everything out on the website, we will still also send copies of everything to the senior center, as well as the Mead library where that way it'll be available there, or like I said on the website, if somebody doesn't have a computer, they know how they could go to the library and use the computers to access it, or the senior center, however, so we have other means of accessing for people as well. Okay, I'm just gonna drive on my laptop here. So this is simulating a computer that Sue would have up in her area. The other thing we can do with this is right now the TV station, WSES, also has the option with how we outfit it, it'll be a feed to them, so another benefit is is they'll be able to go back and forth and additionally show this up on the TV as well, so people at home can see it. And then we can either talk behind the scenes or then they can pan back to who's ever talking or whatever, so that's some options we have as well as far as workflow for capability. What you're seeing right now is basically what I put together is just a general agenda, where we had, and these meeting minutes or examples are from the May 2nd, thank you, Sue, the May 2nd council meeting, okay. So basically what we would do is we'd have, going through our agenda items, then we come to the consent agenda. So ahead of time, Sue could have these opened up and then we could move to the consent agenda so we can see all the items on it. And what we can do is show two pages at a time, okay. I'm gonna clarify, it's one screen, same screen on both sides, but two pages on each screen. Yep, okay. Yep, so, and again as far as how long do we leave these up here for everybody to read, that's something we're gonna have to fine tune with as far as a process and workflow, is it, 10 seconds, five minutes, that's something we'll have to decide and work through. Okay, so and then once we do that, or depending upon how you guys go, do you work through each one and then review documents or if you look at it as a whole, then you just go through and then see the last. Got a question? Yes. Let's say for example, we were doing the consent agenda and one of the all our persons brought ahead, let's say wanted to do item number three, five that you have there as a separate vote and that's only kind of the header of the document, so I wanna bring up our document three, five for a second vote and for some discussion, then would we be able to bring up the entire document for the public to read while we're discussing it for that separate vote, rather than just the header. The header kind of gives an outline of the document, but it doesn't give a lot of specifics. Would that capability be available? We could do that as well, you know, incorporate that into our workflow. In fact, what I've done, here's an example, we could either embed some type of either hyperlinks or have them open in a folder, you know, kind of like this where all the supporting documents are, depending upon how we wanted to do it, is either a hyperlink, here that a document could be brought up and then we do view full screen and it could be brought up that way to review on the screen. That would be excellent because that way the people at home could see, instead of just the header of the document, what the need of the document is for the discussion, that would be very good. I think specifically amendments, when we're amending language within there and it's often confusing when we say, beginning with the word the and continuing through and, strike these words and add these words, nobody at home has any idea. This would give us that opportunity to pull the document up and, now it's just the document, it wouldn't be necessarily be, wouldn't be able to highlight that section or it's not functional at that point in time, it's just the document that pulls up. So if we were amending something, we would simply highlight what we're talking about and people at home would have to follow along, like we are on our documents. I could go like this right here and highlight that way. Are you ready for this, Sue? Oh, I am so ready. Yeah, and I'll keep in mind, there's gonna be, if we go down this path, there's gonna be a few trial runs at this to make sure, as far as perfecting the process of how it will work, I can't do that enough. The other thing I wanna comment is on is, what we're doing here with Microsoft Word, I would say consider this the Fred Flintstones version of doing this. I mean, there's other tools out there that we can look at that are more efficient to help Sue and her things as well in preparing this. But this is a starting point that we can start with, we have to start somewhere with it. So then when we're done with this one, we can close it with that document and then we're back to our consent agenda and then we can move on to the next ones. Now when we're done with our consent agenda, we can either just go back to the regular agenda. So let's say then we're gonna go with resolutions introduced with three, then with these opens, we can click on that. Same thing here, everything is. So all these would be open ahead of time so that way it's all ready to go for the meeting as far as set up. So once that's done, then we can come back to our agenda and just so on, so forth with the report of committee and I combine these six and seven, any ordinances that are gonna be added and are introduced. Once we go through the agenda, then it's a matter of okay, other public matters by law and then adjourn. This is how we'd walk through it. Eric. I'm in heaven. Thank you. I like the hyperlink idea, just throwing my two cents. I know Dave, you and I in Directive Monty have talked about this at Nausium, various different ideas. But I do like the hyperlink idea because it just flows a lot faster I think versus closing out, coming back into something. So if we are able to do that by the document number, just making that a hyperlink to the original document, I think that'll make it move a lot smoother. The other recommendation I'm gonna throw out there is that City Clerk Richards isn't the one operating the system. She's got enough to do when she's back there that we have somebody else behind there operating the computer, bringing up the documents and things like that. Because if we're in a roll call vote, she's not gonna be able to do some of those changes, juggles, you got two hands. I mean, I guess you could use your feet. But, just something again for the council and us to consider as we're looking at that, who might be a good, somebody to do that. The council president, chairman of the committee of the whole. Or IT guy. Or we could rotate it amongst everybody so they get a flow of it. Isn't that something, Sutho, you wanna see? I mean, is it, or maybe not a possibility for you to wanna do all? I mean, wouldn't you have to, until we got into it, how would you know? I mean, ooh, that's not good. Oh, that's not good. Come on, just one, Sutho. Dave, can you hear me? Of course. I will. I think that this is all part of, I, you know, all part of the process that we're gonna now go forward and start mapping it out. Because as with David, I don't wanna purchase anything, do anything until we have a plan. And then we'll work through the different parts of the plan because otherwise it's a waste of city taxpayer money. I mean, it doesn't make sense. So we have to go through some kind of a flow of how it's gonna work. We're gonna run into roadblocks and we'll have to figure it out. I don't know if it's possible for me to do it all. It might be. And I think following up on Alderman Hammond's comment about the hyperlink, is it possible? In my mind, I would think hyperlinking every single document would make sense. Because in every single document, an attachment is there. The advantage of that as well is when it's out on the web, people can look at the agenda. And the hyperlink would send them right to the document. They don't have to page through, you know, a ream of paper to get to the specific document number. It would be much easier for the people at home. And in concurrence with that, it's, instead of, you know, my vision initially was we'd have the agenda, the system we're talking about here, and so we'll have to go somewhere else in the city website to get the documents. And if we link them all together at one, as you were saying, Alderman Hammond, we're going to one location. I can see the agenda. I can pull the documents up as we go. It's, you know, one single source versus multiple areas. I think it's an excellent idea and it's workflow to continue that. I know this is not the issue that we're dealing with right now, but this is an issue that I've been asked to talk about. I think it makes some sense. If the goal of this is to make it easy for those at home or in attendance to follow along versus the paper, as well as saving money in terms of the printing cost and the ink cost, the making a symbol for people at home issue, the votes. Is there any way that a system like this, we can also wrap a voting system around, perhaps that's the manual up front and then enter it into the system so that we can see if it's a voice call, eyes have it, if it's a roll call, who voted in what way. And if we can tie that into a voting system as well. Because that's the question that I get a lot is people can't hear who's voting I and A and sometimes while eyes have it and people are confused of how that vote went. So that's the other thing that I want to throw out there as well. We're actually jumped on the game here and we have done research. For instance, Luther and I, most of the universities, all the kids going to class with what looks like a credit card. I have them in my office where they're on loan from a company that we're demoing and it literally is ABC, I, nay, abstain. And that could possibly be tied, we're looking at that. So that's another thing that if you had ABC, yes, no, abstain. You could do it for amendments. It'll kick out a report. We don't know how far it goes as far as up on the screen but I'm sure it can tie in and that would be brilliant. And that'd be the question. Whatever we buy, I'd like to make sure that we buy something that we know that's gonna be a tool coming forward that we need to tie into that. It's my understanding that that system, it will be able to project up onto the monitors when we take the roll call vote. That's my understanding of that. And then everybody would be voting at one time. On time, right. And, yeah, right. Okay, one more. Which seems to be good. Thank you. I would just want a system different than when the county board is using because when I watch the county board meetings, they've got that big screen up there and then the clerk says, you know, vote and then it flashes up there. The only way I'm gonna know how my county board supervisor voted with that system, I'd have to call them up the next day because there's no way you can see it on the screen. It's just, so I'm wondering if there's gonna have to still be some kind of a voice system or some kind of a system that the people can see at home because the way the county does it with that screen is impossible. It's absolutely impossible. I believe that it can be a larger, you know, when it comes up for each one. I think that it's a possibility that you can see they voted on document five dash three. Everybody pushes their button. It records in there, I believe. I mean, that's what we're looking at. We wanna be able to have that vote go up on the screen that people can see. And that vote would stay up on the screen for a period of time, Alderman Bourne. Very similar to anybody, kind of Joe Finley, but anybody watch C-SPAN, you know, they got the votes up. That's how it would sit up there for a little bit of time, my understanding again. It would sit up there for a little bit of time after everybody votes. So it wouldn't be just a quick flash and you're done. It's just the way the county does it, so poor because when it's on the TV eight screen, it's so far in the distance that there's no way you can read it. It's terrible. Part of the situation with the county is it's not fed into the TV system. It is the camera from parallel corner shooting across and you're right, it's hard to pick up. If you're in the room, you can read it no problem. And if we have a direct feed to the television switcher, as we will with this, visibility, the ability to read won't be a problem. Great. Have you been in contact, obviously, with the IT department in the design of the system so far? We haven't, expert witness here. Yes, we've been in conversation. Scott reports to me. Yeah. I talk to Dave every week. All right. Thank you. That's one thing with this, sorry, Julie. That's one thing with this system is with the PC we're gonna get, it's gonna feed directly into WSCS so they'll be able to toggle back and forth between the feed from this versus the camera. So we'll be able to do some of that. The other thing with the turning point software, turning point is the name of the software is, the other thing we'll be able to do with it after, you know, when the meeting's over, we'll be able to extract reports of how each person voted for each thing to vote and we'll be able to post that right on the website too for historical information. So that way we'll be able to post, so if everyone wanna look back to see how people voted, we can do that. So I'm gonna have, Alma-Cath has next. Yes, thank you, Chairman. When the agendas come out for committees, how difficult would it be to have the hyperlinks in reference to each document that goes to the committee? Yeah. Yes, well the council meeting when each document is referred to the committee and then we get that agenda, if each document that was referred would come up as far as, you know, a hyperlink that, you know, we could read the finance agenda and decide if that's something that we wanna, this or attend. So you're saying that if we were sitting in finance in this building here somewhere with the link that we could actually then continue to be paperless in that committee meeting as well, that we would be able to bring those to the committee level and get the documents that way. Well, we would not be, those emails would not be emailed to us as far as the finance. We would go to the website, the city website and pick up those, is that not all on picking them up and then doing the hyperlink. I think Alderman Hammond has the answer for that. That's part of the long-term vision for this thing is that, you know, not only as a council but then committees would be, you know, we're trying to again take it one step. The original impetus for this, although the added benefit is that I think it does make it easier for those at home to follow along, is to go paperless. You know, that was the primary reason for this. So anything we can do to get that down to the committee levels, you know, absolutely. So it's kind of where we're starting with the crawl and then eventually walk and run. So I fully envision at some point, we will be paperless even at the committee levels and very similar to the committee agenda for finances published. And there's hyperlinks on each of the numbers to whatever document it was. But how hard would it be to do that now? I mean, after. Well, again, a little more difficult than you think. It's workflow. It's just a workflow. I think that no one has the intention of purchasing a program or software or a system that doesn't do that, but they're not going to come out of the box and do that. We have to kind of design it as we work. So I think that, you know, I certainly won't support anything that doesn't do that in the long run. You know, where I'm paperless here, but then I got to print all the documents up later on, makes no sense to me. But I think that's an excellent point that, you know, keep that in mind that ultimately our goal, if we're going to paperless somewhere, we're going to paperless everywhere. There are some solutions that are out there now that are, I think of it as in the cloud computing that solutions that are out there where you can manage your agendas with the documents and it's all through a web interface where you click and go and looking at a few of those tools as well. You know, so again, that's more of a long term. Again, what our intent here tonight is, and this is great conversation, you know, with the ideas you're coming up with, this is good. This is, you know, good planning, good thinking, you know, down the road. Like I said, what this is for, this is basically simplest terms as far as to get a starting point. Is this a starting point that we can build off of or, I know historically in technology in the city, we do jumps and starts, we start somewhere and then when we go somewhere else, we have to start over somewhere else to get to that next goal. So that's what I want to make sure. Our initial investment right now that went to finance committee is just for the equipment and that will plug into whatever software we use that will run on that PC. You know, that's one thing we're making sure of and why, you know, partnered with Allen from Camera Corner. We did go out for three bids and Camera Corner was the only one who came on site or offered to come on site to examine our room, come up with design. So the projectors, we do get the lenses are balanced correctly and we're actually gonna get a crisper, better picture than what you're seeing here. This is actually a lower scale demo that we'll be actually getting better units that we're getting with. So that's why I went with that. Other also is Camera Corner is also on the government contracting price scale. So that's another reason why so. Thank you, I don't mean to monopolize this. We've just been spending a lot of time working on this. Dave and Jim more so than us, but one of the other concerns that has been addressed is well, you know, people on TV eight lander are looking at this, you know, how are they gonna see them? So one of the things that we've discussed and I believe, you know, Dave, if you wanna jump in here on this is having asking TV eight to, or WSES TV eight to scroll the documents for the hour preceding the council meeting. So people could sit at home for the hour preceding the council meeting and see all of the documents in a slower fashion prior to the council meeting. So for those that don't necessarily have internet access can do that. Yes, you get two hours of council. The first hour would be essentially the documents would literally just be scrolling through. Again, we'll have to fine tune the timing, but they would scroll through and then people would have a least a little opportunity to read the summary portion, not obviously all the documents, but the summary of each prior. We could put that in the PowerPoint and even put it to music and the whole nice thing and really go on so. Currently, the documents are available. For anybody who has internet access, is that correct? I don't have that set up yet. I was waiting to see where we're going with this all if we should be proceeding or how we wanted to proceed. So I haven't set it up yet to set it up. So the public can get it isn't gonna be that hard. I've already been working with Chad on the new website and we can put the link on the old website too to get this going. I'm just comparing public access right now for documents. If I remember the public right now without any systems like this, without the internet access, how do I get a document? If I want to delve deeper into something. Sue? So even the email, I still need internet access. If I don't have internet access, I have to get the document. Okay. Okay. Or you could go to this, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Or you could go to the library or senior center and do it that way. And beyond that then what we're offering then if we go with a system like this is to tie in, give the camera operator something else to do besides look at my bald head, is to also look at the documents. And then those at home have access to get those documents which they don't currently have. Is that correct? Correct. Okay, thank you. Additionally they'll also have archives because right now all that's archived are agendas. I believe in the past, they're not even minutes, I'm sorry. Minutes, yes, minutes. Minutes, miss both, I apologize. But now we'll have the agenda, the documents, the minutes and eventually how they voted. Correct. Forever and ever on the FTP, I'm sorry. Website. On the website. It's time. I'm Carlson. The question I have is I know currently the clerk's office spends a lot of time collating, printing and just getting all the actual paper documents together. And I'm guessing that was factored into the price savings or the cost savings. Are we also taking into fact the amount of time that it's gonna take to like create all the hyperlinks because I mean that's not, it's easy but it's not a quick process in word. Just overall the time spent putting all this together. I know initially it's gonna take a lot of time but even going forward are we looking at that in terms of man hours out of the clerk's office. And if that's gonna save money. Because essentially this is to save money, correct? Guessing. Access and paper. Beyond the access. I will. Dave and Don if you want to take that. You want to jump or should I? Well with the hyperlinks that kind of came up tonight. So that's another factor where the scope just changed a little bit. So I'll have to look at that. Like I said with Word to get that going that's 1990s type technology. There's other technologies we can look at to make it much easier that we own in-house already that I can see that'll already help slim down that time what it's gonna take. But you're absolutely right if we have to make a hyperlink for every document, that's gonna add time to prepare. And Carlson we hadn't, again that was something that came out of tonight. Prior to that there was some, the payback was very very short. A year-ish, which again in business that you get a payback under two years or a year you're doing good. So the payback was pretty good. The hyperlink will have to take a look at that and figure out how much time it'll take who's gonna do it. That's part of the workflow process. But my gut feeling is that there's still gonna be some cost savings and it will be a nice little workflow addition. And there's, as Dave was saying, there's technology out there that will help make that process a lot faster too. Correct. So do you know offhand just your paper for council costs were last year? If you had an approximation. I mean, not including ink or time, just paper. I think it was about 4,800. About 5,000. About 5,000 just for paper. And that does not include your own paper that you've used to print things up as well. Any other comments or questions? I'll be more. Thank you. Then with the system we're talking about with the hyperlinks and everything, does it look like there would be a possibility that we would be able to get our documents assuming Sue would keep the same deadline of, let's say, Wednesday at five o'clock? Is there a chance of getting those documents by Thursday rather than Friday? I mean, I just don't have a concept of how that would work. Would it be any better in that respect of getting documents earlier? I think Sue would like to answer that question. Do you want the microphone? I would like mine at 5.05 Wednesday night. Well, this one is a real, this is a question. And I think Alderman Carlson is right in looking at this because if it's not going to save money and it's going to cost more, we have to look at that. I will just tell you that other municipalities have a much shorter, not a shorter, a longer deadline for their documents. I mean, many of the municipalities, it's the week before council. You've got to have your documents in and if you don't have them in they wait for two more weeks. So I mean, we really, we're down to the wire and I'm a little worried so I'm waiting to see how this is going to pan out. Doing this whole process, getting them all linked, it's a fabulous idea. But if it's going to take us into the weekend because our deadlines are the same, then we have to look at that. I think that that's going to have to all kind of come out of this process that we're going to be in for the next week, two weeks, months, whatever it takes. I don't know if that helps. Alderman Bult. Bult, excuse me. Just a quick question. If we're going to have all of these documents in our agendas with a hyperlink and then we're going to go to our committees and we're going to review all the committee documents. We're going to submit them back to you. Can't we, can't you cut and paste including the hyperlink to the next agenda from one agenda to the next? I mean, it would save time to cut the next thing. From the council agenda to the committee agenda, you mean? And then back again to the next committee or the council agenda. And that's something I think those shortcuts will come up as we get into this a little bit more. You're absolutely right. To edit a document from scratch is going to take a lot longer than copy and paste. And as long as the documents all keep the same name and are stored in the same spot, yes, the hyperlinks will work. Just a quick question for Alan since he drove down here from Green Bay and we don't want him to be bored back there. This type of technology, how long can we expect these screens and monitors, or the monitors and the projectors and what kind of maintenance are we looking at? As far as the technology, you could expect this about seven to 10 years. Okay. What will drive this is the technology changes. So as laptops, as PCs, if they convert to HDMI, the projectors that we're looking at already have HDMI so we could do that. Then making sure that it's going to be compatible with Scott's system in the back. So those things we don't control, but for the most part we're thinking seven to 10 years. And what kind of annual maintenance expense can we expect for like the projectors and bulbs burn out, those types of things? The bulbs are rated typically at 3,000 hours. And I don't believe that this will be used much like a classroom. So I truly believe that we'll just take the number of sessions that we have, committee meetings and divide that and figure out what the lifespan would be. Thank you. All right, and any questions or comments? Anything you like, any final comments you'd like to make to the committee? This is just a discussion item it looks like on the agenda. Is that correct, Sue? No, Ashley, can we take it? Okay. Correct, but I just thank you all for your time and sitting through and this is a good conversation that we've had so we can make this workflow work for all of us. So, thank you. Thank you so much. Next on the agenda is adjournment. Is there a motion to adjourn? So moved. Second. Motion made and second to adjourn. All in favor say aye. Aye. Chair votes aye. We stand adjourned. Recorded.