 Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's war. It's oh wait. Hold on. What is this? It's not Warhammer. It's Raiden hell week That's right Because Adam and I who's here uncle Adam, there he is up in this corner We launched a game and Tyler helped so with a gang is all here So don't worry everyone. This is just a little one week Deviation into our new game that we launched. We're all very excited about it We're still gonna talk about some news for AOS and all of that and Then back we will return you to our regularly scheduled programming Next week when we talk about broken realms crag nose, which I'm really excited about for lots of reasons So don't worry lots of big things coming as we've already had a couple of negative Nancy's I can see who who joined into this and we're clearly angry that we would talk about any any other game I'll just say right up top hit the like button We really appreciate it and you can show all the negative people that you think That's what you think it's that easy So anyways joining us as always is my new interim co-host Tyler. What's going on, buddy? Yeah, but happy to be here the gentleman You know, there was a lot of interest last week Tyler in your spectacular Rainbow hued color wheel clock or whatever it is that's behind you Yeah, and people wondered if I had maybe tricked you into starting to paint Very nice. No that has to do with The long view long-term thinking that sort of thing as you know, it's in my past Absolutely, I do I do Tyler should write a book about his life. I assure you it would be incredibly fascinating He's lived an interesting interesting life. Don't believe him. He's much more interesting than me We're gonna we're gonna do and ask me anything just with Tyler sometime. It's you're it's crazy anyways Another person who's led a very interesting life and I'm very happy to partner with him on this book Uncle Adam, how you doing brother? Not too bad. Not too bad. Um Yeah, no, it's it's it's been a ride. It's been, you know, that's been a heck of a not quite a week But yeah, it's uh, it's it's going well Uh, it has been a week. It's been a bit of a uh Ride is the perfect way to say it. Yes, you know anytime you launch a game It's gonna be a thunderstorm, right because there's just a lot of I am beyond thrilled Thank you to everybody who's purchased the game or or shared the game To all the people who reviewed the game Who made Bat reps and have just done a bunch of amazing stuff We are over the moon and thrilled about everything and all the support and all of the Just awesome interactions. We've been having I've been watching all the facebook groups and everything Trying to if any questions pop up or just interacting with people and looking at models and cabalas people have been Planning out so a lot of fun So to attic is this the first time adam's been on weekly? Oh, no, gosh, no, we've just been on multiple times before Uh, I think the last time you're on we talked about war cry, right? Is that the last one? Yeah, I know we've talked about war cry at least once and I think we've also you guys you and Tom had me on to talk about um kill team one time too. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yes And there might have been a time before that as well. I think so. I think that's right. Yeah So we've we've no adam adam is uh, we're we're almost an irregular at this point We're we're ready to join up the league. We're we're doing our part. Yes, exactly So at any rate, let's start off with the news. We still got some standard news though. Fortunately as though What can it be but the alignment of fate? It's a slow news week Indeed. Yeah, 100% So that's my cue rumor engine Pretty straightforward seemingly 40k thing Oh, I was gonna say Hey, some kind of mechanical Karajan walker. Oh, you're you're taking the big swing At ko part two with the mechanical walkers Sure I think it looks like something from private to your press like it looks kind of like a warjack foot almost, you know Yeah, it does It looks like we're using some bad gw metal paint Can see that pigment from space So Pretty pretty standard Uh, yeah, I think it's a 40k thing But I would love it if it was like a mechanized suit for aos I am already angry that stormcast got a chariot a chariot Surely you jest the beast thunder gods of lightning and we're like, yeah roll out with a chariot. No, no No, I refuse tanks I wanted lightning powered tanks And uh, I'm upset. Absolutely. So at any rate, yeah, especially after we saw that image this week That they rolled out with like that procession leaving a city Thank you Thank you. Yeah those those airships and yeah, the big crusades all the ko airships and them hauling entire, you know Fortresses basically. Yes. Yeah Yeah But no, yeah, it's got seemingly some markings that are that are very ko. I mean the little boot there little foot That looks similar to some of what I've seen on ko and then those Like aether globes Whatever those are, you know, they've got those Uh, bluish. I don't know what they're called. Yes except that one's painted in metal paint not blue. Oh, that's fair. Okay Yeah, that's something that I would be done on so that makes sense Here to help So, yeah, we'll see. Well, I hope you're right. I think you're wrong. There you go Fair enough What else we got adam you got any guesses? Oh, yes, uh, definitely. It's uh, cow elves. There you go It's just there. We we strapped them into mechanical suits Just really take it to the next level. I'm excited about it All right, so that's that We got a little article today on the best rule set ever subtlety aside Yes As we joked during the reaction show, I would love for them to say anything else, right? Like we came out with a whole new rule set. It's okay. It's above average Solid six and a half 100% yeah Okay, so Yeah, the core rules have been rewritten from scratch to create the most concise and elegantly explain rules Whatever and it'd be fair. It was I mean, we were all very excited I think understandably in many ways To see that they have started numbering all these rules, especially the lawyers among us So that was cool to see Yeah, I didn't care about the numbers as much I did care more about the fact that they put in uh Designer commentary text So they're using what I'll colloquially call the reign and hell format of a large single main block of text within designers commentary in the sidebar Mm-hmm, you know once when when a when a game comes out that really sets the standard What can you do except the item not surprised cgw following suit? No, I mean it is a good format, right? I mean, there's a reason we did it in the game like that and there's I think that that's how games should be written Honestly, if you look at something like soulbound, they did a lot of the the same thing and some of there Especially there are more rules heavy chapters Right because it just it's nice to be able to like go. Here's the rule Here's the here's either the critical thing you need to know about it or a reference to another page where you're going to now follow up on it Or here's why we designed it like that like there's lots of different forms those sidebars can take But I've been a huge proponent of those for years because I think that they help alleviate problems now Already that's if you write them correctly, okay, I mean there's that sure sure Now now In the one that just came out today They explained shooting. Okay, so it's like blah blah shooting this blah blah blah Uh Brandon s says hey and uncle item I typed up some rules questions from the reddit. Yeah, we'll we'll definitely have a question section Yeah, absolutely. Yes So yes, I'll be happy to answer those later At any rate, um, so they said okay if you're within three inches of an enemy unit You can only shoot the unit you're engaged with so standard aos rules like we play right now, right standard 2.0 rules Yep, and in the sidebar it said You can shoot at a unit that is within three inches of an enemy without penalty right Meaning that's within Three inches of another friendly unit Correct. Yeah, exactly. So I know I can shoot Yeah, I'm yours. I'm the shooters. I'm the shooter. He's a shooter You two are the enemies fighting each other within three inches of each other, right? You're you're friendly Adams the enemy whatever right you guys are fighting I can still shoot at him without Any penalty is what you know that there's no way there's no additional rules or restriction, right? So then immediately everybody read that as wait, does that mean look out sir doesn't apply I don't take other negatives into account. I'm like no No, this is non rules text. They're trying to say No, there's not like a swarm of melee or something that would cause a negative to hit because you're you have to aim carefully To not hit your friends like happens in some other games or whatever, right? Like no no immediately already. I was like we're already reading it wrong just cannot help ourselves as a community can't help ourselves Yeah So they gave a little bit information in the video It was a little interview with ben johnson the lead product developer for aos as most of us know So ben gave a little Tagline heroes will more heroic monsters more monstrous and new ways to build your army So we've heard a little bit about all three of those You know he reinforced what we heard on saturday that heroes and monsters will have new special abilities yep And that they're also going to expand on those and the new battle tomes. So that'd be cool to see And then He mentioned the core battalions That there's going to be multiple ones then it really elaborate on what that meant But you know, I think a lot of us are guessing that it's something akin to 40k detachments Where you know, they've got sort of variations, you know more elite one or more artillery vehicle oriented things like that And then he referenced a battle pack in the core book called contest of generals And he said it's designed for pickup games and like little club events And then of course a new general sandbook will be on the way with didn't really give any details on that Just set a new format new ways to play. So sure Yeah, but it's interesting to see if we get like a lot of new battle plans this time around I mean, I assume we're launching with just like we did last time with like six core battle plans And that'll be the basic very the very basic battle plans to get playing and then they'll roll out the generals And that'll be like the tournament battle pack, you know, or whatever. That's fine, whatever Yeah, yeah, do you think they'll do the same thing that they're doing with 40k now Where they've got those kind of spiral bound sort of little books They're a bunch of different like mission packs and all that kind of stuff I don't know. I think that because probably not just because they already have a met one We don't require as much sort of nonsense in a os right And two I think that they already have a good delivery method For a os which is just like The the standard generals handbook that comes out every year and it's kind of what we've all been trained to accept Is where the tournament type packs and mission stuff comes from and and in general the team has killed it Like the one thing I all every, you know, it's not that we don't have our Critiques of of games workshop in the past But I will say for the last several years the generals handbook has been killing it on scenarios It's it's really been strength to strength to strength. Oh, yeah Um, yeah, there's like one or two that we're like, oh, maybe that's not the best one for tournaments But out of the 18 or so scenarios to have 16 that are viable for basically any tournament when you run five games in a tournament That's a pretty good world to live in So, yeah That's a bit of a shame. Yeah, 2020. I thought we probably both thought was the best Yeah, it was such a great Mac and basically never played it. So well, I mean I played it tons But we didn't ever play in a tournament. Yes Yeah, sure So, yeah, yeah, that's cool to see today that little article Yup And then we've got the immortal crabs warband on the way also known as Elithane soul raids apparently nobody cares what the actual name of it is It's crab Adam, are you excited about crab releasing? Are you excited about the coming of our new shared god crab nose and his fish friend? I don't know why they wouldn't just go like oops all crabs. You know what I mean? Just like make a box. It's just I don't know like uh, like what are those ones that they do it? Christmas, you know like in battle box crabs out of force. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's worse crabs. Just just not just nothing But crabs, um, yeah, it would be like a unit of fish I don't like the fish too. I think the fish gets underrated here. Everybody loves the crab I thought the fish was really cute as well. What's up with that? The poor fish doesn't get enough attention I don't know the fish can do a lot of fighting. I mean magic harp just sits there isn't doesn't he? Isn't that his whole thing or whatever just flops around? I don't know pokemon, but um, you know that one But I do know that one. Yes, and I mean, I know the the whatever this we don't care. Anyways, I know like seven pokemon if you were in super smash brothers I know who you are. There we go. There you go. Okay. So, um The the point being is though like yeah, just all crabs one unit of fish call it a day. There we go Yeah Done Done and done like it so Yeah, so I'm sure everybody's excited about that And then I had a little update for rain Do you mind if I jump in with the rain update? Since this is the rain and hell show wanted to give the quick update on what's going on with rain and hell right now So obviously the game is out. We're going to talk about it today the new pdf that because when we launched there was a couple errors in the In the pdf that we became aware of afterward unfortunate There was only two things that were really I would call material rules situations One was there was two values on a table switched and one was there were some stats missing from the beast scenario Um, those have all been corrected. We did do some other cleanup as well Spelling grammatical stuff just other little cleanups here and there where we saw the opportunity since we were Needing to upload a new version. We thought why not give it a good pass over clean it all up That's been uploaded. You can get the new pdf now if you've already purchased it You can just redownload the pdf from your account. That's one of the great advantages of war game Vault and why we went through them Uh, so super awesome there Um, the new book is in is in the approval process so that everybody understands between War game vault and then lightning source, which is who actually prints the books There's a there's a approval process that we have to go through when we send them a file even though we know it's basically the same they still have to go through and we have to approve it and I've one shipped out and all this because they don't want to print something that's bad and then run A lot of copies of it and then have everybody return it to them and go. Oh, you screwed up This is page seven is upside down and it's like wait, what? Uh, so at any rate, um, the book isn't currently available for purchase on the website. Don't worry It will be back very shortly. There's a big note. You will not we are Exponiting it with all possible due haste Uh, and we will shout it from the rooftops post about it on socials When uh, when it's available, which we uh, hope is not too long We've been tracking it slowly. It's like I'm I'm like waiting for the it's like when you order uber eats I'm just watching just watching for that car to drive around Um One quick thing I will ask here Uh, if you have already purchased it Uh, first of all, thank you. We really do appreciate it. I just want to say Absolutely Secondly, um in the description below already there is a link to the actual page of Rain and Hell if you can go there give it a rating If you've got a minute give it a review if you've enjoyed it if you think it's cool Um, we really appreciate that it helps that that rating and that review really helps other people find the title people You know read that stuff the ratings help us stay in the searches and things like that on there So it only takes like a minute the links down there even if you just click it and go Yep, I like this number of stars fine. I'm not going to tell you what to leave I want you to you know, give us the the fair shake whatever it is I certainly hope you're enjoying it. Um, you all have been awesome. So if you have just a second Hit that rating review it helps us a great deal. So absolutely very much Uh Razor tree said will these fixes show up in the physical copy since it's made in order So yes, that's what we're waiting on for approval now If you already ordered it and it's already been printed Then you'll have the previous version and that we can't there's nothing we can do about that However, the only page that had the material error, which was the missing stats on the the beast scenario We put up on the rain and hell website as a single page pdf You can just go there print it out. Boom. That's your that's your scenario for that easy peasy fix No, no drama. Okay. So there you go razor tree Adam anything else you want to say about that? Did I did I hit everything there? No, I'm just keeping an eye on the website because like you said it has to be like approved by working vault and then it has to be approved by the The printer and then we have to order one and then ship it as fast as possible and that's That's a cost obviously everything like that just so that we can get it look at it go Yep, cool, and then click a button and then it will go live again. So In the past it took probably with the slightly slower shipping which was like two-day shipping instead of overnight It was still maybe a little bit less than a week. Maybe so hopefully We'll see something real soon because we did this last night. We had kind of been told by Wargame vault that they were like, well, probably when you submit the new one the old one won't go away But they were yeah, I know that it it's not that it went away. It just was like, oh, well, there's a change So we got a you know, so it's a it's a thing. It's a learning experience. This is our first game. So This is our first game. Yes first game together in this situation. Let's see So there we go So that's your updates there on what's going on there. Obviously if you have any questions There's an email and I've suddenly got you can reach out to us or you can hit me up on any socials Whatever anything like that. I'm happy to answer any questions. Anybody's got James that's exactly right. I hope that you he said I order mine day one It just means I have the special first edition with a printing error. That's exactly right I hope in time this comes to be thought of like the original Action comics, no, I see no not that big I was gonna say the what is it like legends and lore what not that's not what it is The d&d book that had like l rick melna bone and what was it fiend folio? Was the original fiend folio? I don't know. Which is demigod. That's what I think it was There you go. Yes, because it had like l rick melna bone in it and a bunch of other stuff that they didn't own Oh, yeah, and then immediately the owners of that copyright were like, whoa, whoa, whoa guys Now you gotta get this out of here. Cthulhu in it as well and stuff like that. Yeah, because at that time I'm pretty sure like Cthulhu is is um ironically No longer in he's he's open now. He's not copyrighted anymore. You can just tell stories about Cthulhu now You don't have to pay anybody for that anymore as far as but in uh 70s 80s 81 whenever that but yeah, you did There you go. Yep, michael newbanks deities and demigods. That's right. Thank you There was too many like x and y in early d&d and they were all swirling in my head. Yeah, I am. Okay Uh, all right So did we have anything else tyler? Was there any other? Hey, what's the fence? Oh, yes? I'm sorry tyler I almost blew past your thing, but I'm not going to so tyler has requested That as part of our news we do occasional check-ins and tyler is gonna put this beautiful slide together So you can rest assured that that uh, this'll all probably go away once tom comes back and does nothing Uh, but if tyler keeps sending me these I'll keep talking about them So tyler, this is the what we've got up on the screen right now is the list of upcoming events from june and july Uh, you can find all this information at aosevents.org Which is done by aos shorts. Ty, you want to talk any real quick about this? No, that's great. Yeah. Yeah, it's thought this would be a nice little thing to do Yeah, dan street at aos shorts been putting a lot of work into this on an ongoing basis and Yeah, it's the best resource in the community for just seeing the events happening around the worlds every month So yeah, we got bug eater this weekend And then yeah, linux city open with marty running that next weekend We'll rampage any slaughter big weekend next week. So yeah I try to get this to where maybe we could do june, you know, three months out But sure we could fit that all in one slide. Anyhow, just thought this might be nice And yeah aosevents.org is the place to go to for all of it and that'll be links down below Uh, tyler did great work here. Thank you to dan obviously from aos shorts for putting this all together I love seeing all this action in you in in australia I do think that the rural rampage them bendigo boys. They're all crazy out there They're out in the out in the out in the bush. It's gonna be uh, it's gonna be pretty amazing. So there you go Okay, awesome very good. Well with that then Gentlemen, let's turn to some pick. Oh the week tyler, what would you like to share with everybody? You've got multiple things Of course Apparently adam's gonna follow suit. So I appreciate that Uh, so we got a lot of great battle report channels out there. I just wanted to uh, that's about the only thing I've been able to watch this week as far as content Uh cut a few things Of course rob with the super series the t-sports network. They did the super series genesis over the weekend Watched a little bit of that some that's gone quite well Uh, we've got a really cool little bat rep coming up tomorrow. Just play that's coming back. So ian richie James tinsdale those guys over there. They're doing a mod tribes for civil neth With a new allarial war scroll. So hopefully she's gonna feel some fat boys Show off her new her new rules And uh, 740 points apparently And then simons order academy. I've been watching a lot of simon hauls battle reports He's really well known for running cities of sygmar list very inventive C. O. S. List and just been playing a whole bunch of different games And dig in his channel. He's he's a great player Very nice. Nice. All of those are already linked down below. So there you go Adam what about yourself buddy? What do you got? What would you like to share with everybody? Yeah, so, um I've been getting into I mean as we've been looking at Um, you know this war game vault kind of place There's a lot of really interesting games there and I've been getting more and more interested into indie games for the past couple of years at least and So I kind of wanted to make a shout out to to three of them that I like and One of them is Called planet 28, which I've talked about a bunch of times before. Uh, it's made by mammoth miniatures I believe out of the uk nick evans and uh, it's a fun little It's tiny It's like a it's a little to kind of digest size if you were to actually like buy the actual physical book Which I think he does sell from his website if you get the pdf it doesn't kind of Size doesn't matter times a flat circle all that stuff and um So it is uh, but it's a fun kind of sci-fi skirmishy game kind of retro graphic not graphics retro illustrations He does really great. He does the illustrations himself as well. It's really cool reminds me of zines and stuff like that That's very cool. Um, another one that's come out relatively recently is called forbidden som and it is um It's uh, if you if you're familiar with RPGs the whole concept of like morkeborg Like there's a whole morkeborg RPG thing and this is kind of a licensed sort of thing Where it's a miniature game version of that, but it's um, I don't know again It's a it's a small skirmishy kind of like DIY looking kind of game with really interesting layout and everything like that And um, I know a summary of what morkeborg is like it's uh, it's basically it's a fantasy game I don't know a lot about morkeborg the rpg. I know forbidden som is you're playing a small band of uh heroes And there's a mad wizard who will basically pay you if you go get stuff And also he is Very sure that I believe goblins have stolen stolen his socks or something like that So that's like a whole another scenario and whatnot, but it's it's got solo play It's got co-op as well Um, it's more more fantasy and then a new one that I just picked up today, uh, which I just I love the cover art But I also love the insides as well and it's called space weirdos I saw this. Yes. I saw space weirdos. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. So space weirdos is just this really cool. Um, it's like 16 pages It's like a five dollar book, you know or zine basically again all black and white just two column um again It kind of makes my old Zine loving sort of diy kind of heart saying a little bit, but it's just cool little Skirmish game and I like that a lot as well. So there's a lot of these things that are going on right now in the um the You know the print on demand and the whatever pdf and all that kind of stuff arena And so I like seeing those types of games happening And so there's my there's my pick of the week or picks of the week very nice Yeah, I saw space weirdos is the subtitle on that a skirmish heartbreaker. Is that what it says? Yeah, yeah Like I love I need to I need to meet the author of this book Because I feel like we would be instant friends because the fact that they so like the term fantasy heartbreaker was a term out of the 90s that came up That was applied originally to a set of seven D&D like games that were all basically D&D, but we fixed this one thing we didn't like Right, so it's so it's basically like this game. It's old We just fixed the things that we kind of dug and made it and now it's like stuck in time Self titled it with that. It's so Brilliant, so I just that's what I saw it. I was I was immediately interested in that I actually just saw it earlier today as well I might pick that up because I am very interested as soon as you open the You know the first the first words in the cover is that space weirdos is my skirmish heartbreaker an rpg Terms a heartbreaker is a fixed version of d&d published by an amateur in my online circles A lot of old school d&d people are discovering or rediscovering miniatures more gaming and starting to write rules when they find the big names Games are too expensive and convoluted. So you're going to see probably more of this And it's got some sense of humor. So does more board. I mean, honestly all of them do but I think that um I think that's that's also sometimes needed as well I think sometimes we can take ourselves a bit too seriously Sometimes sometimes That's awesome. Yes, I'm gonna have to check that one out. Okay Uh, I love it, uh, and And you asked about morcborg Tyler morcborg cannot be explained morcborg is an experience Okay, and it's like it's like going to pink floyd laser night on acid is what I would describe it Fantasy amazing. Yeah the fantasy game. Yeah. Yeah, I have to check it out. Nice Uh at any rate, uh, so at any uh, so My pick of the week is going to be very straightforward our good buddy rob over at the miniatures paintbrush Uh did a bat wrap for rain and hell, uh, which I will link down in the description Uh, you know, they got a couple little rules wrong, but that's okay. It was their first game. It was still a great game um You know, I appreciate him putting that together so fast Uh, I think both he and his opponent are in the chat today and they are both awesome And that looks like they had a great time. So go check that out if you want to see Them play the game So there you go Awesome All right, so with that, let's turn to some hobby time Now tyler as we've said before you don't paint So Then ways to stay busy apparently so indeed. What do you think you got any good games in? Yeah, I got a few games in. Yeah, we're prepping for a halfway point for the slogan league We've started a while back. So we've got a little one care happening on saturday four games. That'll be a lot of fun Running the run the boys and the pigs as always. So I got a got a few games in this week find that a good reminder about How resilience and apparently killy ten blikings can be My four six pigs slammed into them and only managed to kill three Did they have close one damage on? They did That is matt says seven of those ailes should have died but three was the result Seems mathematically unlikely at two damage apiece Indeed, that's what I thought. So anyway, that was fun Mostly been researching past aos tournaments So I don't know if I mentioned on the show yet, but we are finally In the early stages of planning for what's going to be a two-day grand tournament And springfield springfield. No, so we don't have a day yet. We're working on it And yeah, just looking at past events, you know anything and everything awards was the big thing recently Kind of getting a list of you know, what are the the core standard and then what are some of the various unique ones and Actually on that point, you know, obviously we're going to cover some of the basics best overall That's painted But if anybody's got any ideas we'd love to hear in terms of you know, what you might consider A unique compelling award to have at a at a two-day or I don't know add them in the comments or throw me a Line on twitter, Tyler up or drop them down in the comments What awards do you if you what if you went to a tournament? What awards would you want to see at that tournament? And I say get weird with it, by the way? Like it's a time for exploration. I know there's a lot of tournaments where people have Where where there's some really really interesting awards where the to's get really creative And honestly, it's awesome Right. Yeah, because it gives a lot of different people a lot of different things to play for So I'm all about that. I love when it's not just like no best general best infection Best painted best overall like okay, that's fine. I'm not like those are sort of the Stock standard. There's nothing wrong with them. They're time tested, but we can we can do more Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah All right. Yeah Very good. Adam, what about yourself? What have you been working on buddy? What's I mean, I know what you've been working on what a lot of our hobby time collectively has went to this last week Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely A little bit of hobby time that I've been able to sneak in well I mean, I've been working on when I I paint on twitch on Monday nights and on Friday mornings And on Monday night this past couple nights ago. I was working on a It's a kit bashed. It's going to be a devout for my demented Good cabal And it is a 3d printed model of a figure from a company called bestarium miniatures And that's who makes the stl and my good friend matt printed it for me and then It doesn't particularly have a head It's like It's kind of like a big suit of armor, but inside it's all like tree roots and stuff like that and where the head would be There's like you can see like there's a person inside They're probably 28 millimeter because this thing is tall and you can see their arms reaching out like they've been wrapped up And they're being squished in there and it's like super, you know cool and whatnot and spooky But I'm like trying to make a demon and so I cut that guy's arms off and like Basically glued a big skull to it from the big box of skulls from gw and then added some Chaos rhino, uh, you know spikes all over there. Yeah, you know has one does As is tradition and so, um, yes, I've been painting that Um, the last couple of I started it on friday like the day we released the game and then I painted it again Otherwise, otherwise, I've been just actually touching up. Uh, I had been doing the I'll previously on to that on stream. I had been doing the cursed city I did four of the heroes. I did the witch hunter guy the lady with the bird on her shoulder Oh, which may not be a bird that might be a griff hound. Whatever, you know Um the Guy who has the very long beard that I thought was a tongue and then I cut off his face replaced it with a skull and The other guy who was the fourth guy that I did The ogre Oh, no the foppish guy. Oh, mr. Gelsio did Oslo the third whatever exactly first try. Um, and then I also did um the skeleton the watch captain So I had I was working on those five and so they're like I stopped painting them They're basically close-ish to done, uh, except for their bases and then I started working on this demon stuff on twitch But I'm still going back now and touching up little bits here and there and that kind of stuff So that's basically all I've had for demon or for a hobby time lately. Nice nice, uh For myself Well, I already have my cabals because I I made a couple different cabals during the playtesting since I needed to Have stuff ready to hand other people for all the playtesting we did so I'm I'm good there It's kind of sad to like launch the game And I don't have any reason to make more demon stuff because I've already got multiple cabals could do more cabals I could I certainly could I do like painting demons Uh, and I'm sure I will at some point You know as I said on like one of the streams on saturday or whatever If I was in any way a smart man or good at this I would have had like hobby cheats lined up You know, there was all like different demon focused stuff that I could be teaching people a hobby about Yep, I'm not that smart. I'm really not. I just it didn't work that way This is technically our first rodeo. That's just true. Next time better better synergy Oh, yeah, brand awareness, you know, that'll be that kind of thing Anyways, um, I too have been painting through some curse city stuff. I too painted the guy with the Long beard, but I got rid of the head and beard and gave him a skull So same thing somewhere. There's a sculptor at GW who's like really sad about that and I'm sorry, but It was weird looking and uh, so yeah, it just it skulls are red It's so much better with the game's workshop. Yeah, everything's better with a skull Yep, and uh, I'll probably make a video out of him at some point in the future But he's gonna be a necromancer I'm kind of slowly accidentally building a soullblight grave lords army Like I painted all the skeletons Painted that guy's gonna be a necromancer We'll just see if I accidentally back into it like maybe I wander into a hobby store and just accidentally buy two of those Luca vi mother of nightmare monsters, you know, just like mistakes You know that happens it happens it happens. It happens Uh I agree with ninja on by the way the clown fiesta and the cork tower award need to be at this tournament confirmed There you go. Yes Clown fiesta is is you go nuts with bright colors and cork tower is exactly what it sounds like you're making The tallest menu on the tallest cork tower Uh, but what I've been working on now is this little guy right here. He's one of two these little ogre Bodyguard dudes Yeah, they're really fun. They're just such cool figs I was just really excited to paint him is honestly my answer like I've been working on so much stuff that was for videos. I recorded A whole bunch of stuff the so hobby cheating 300 is coming up And I recorded something pretty special for that one. I won't say anything more about it Uh, I'm still editing through it all but it was a lot It was a lot And uh, I'm sure everybody else would be like this is dumb. Why did you even do this and then that's fine? But I've been wanting to do it for a while. So I did it Uh, and we'll see if other people enjoy it. I hope so But so there was so much between everything we've been doing with working on the book And everything like that this guy just was like I want to paint something. That's not a tutorial It's just one fig for me. It's just to relax So this guy's been my relaxation figure Because I'm very cool. I'm all out of scaven claw lords. Um, so he's gonna have to do all right Sue by the way adam when was your first youtube video that Approximately represents tabletop minions Uh, I started the channel in early march of 2013 And that was my first that was my like intro to take so tabletop minions was a The name came up with originally it was going to be a local war gaming club And so there are some videos even earlier than that on the channel Which are just basically like we would have these meetings where then each week or month or whatever it was Somebody was supposed to sit down and give like a talk about like well, what is primer or how do you do this? Or how do you do that? I ended up giving all of the talks because nobody else wanted to and so then we would film them for people Who couldn't come to the meetings and then the whole thing fell apart And then a couple years went by and then I was like well, I got the domain and the name and the logo And I'm gonna make a new youtube channel and it'll fit so I just used it so But yeah, that technically it started in march of 2013. Okay advance Uh, god, I don't know probably like Either the end of 2014 or the beginning of 2015. I would approximate That sounds like you guys were close. Yeah Yeah, I mean boy you can see what the difference in production value does like It's that extra year. No, yeah Exactly Yeah, you know the belt when I was first looking at content in terms of branding and Style you you got style man, and you probably still absolutely hold it Okay, let's see the very first video I did was in september of 2014. That's that there you go, but it's terrible It's awful. Don't watch it ever my god Oh Dear lord, what a nightmare all of my initial videos are just straight nightmares. So there you go Uh Yeah, okay Cool beans, um Let's uh gentlemen, are we ready to are we ready to go to hell? I say so let's do this Yes, I agree. Okay So let's uh, let me switch around here Let's bring up Badal pdf make sure that looks okay Should aha there we go. We're good. All right. So Uh, let's talk about rain and hell. So adam Uh, I think we've told this story a few times, but just to to bring everybody up to speed Um, how did we end up writing this game? Because this is your idea. This is your brainchild. That's me 100 straight Sure. Yeah, it was a situation of um, I have done some game design in the past A good friend of mine and I uh, peter spayhose. He and I Produced a couple of games back in the early 90s. Like we our first game that we produced was in 1992 um, we were in college and um And then we did a card game after that first game was kind of a gateway game between your your board games And your miniature games a little bit and the second game was just basically like a card game. Um, it's called zombie rally and um So I hadn't done anything like that for quite some time and I had this idea because I've been getting more and more Discourmage games for years because I'm just tired of painting an entire army. I'm not saying that it's wrong for people to do So absolutely. It's just for me. I like I keep I always say it's it's like the buffet style I want to make I want to do some lizard men. I want to do some ad mac I want to do some of these guys. I want to do some of those guys, you know and just kind of whatever so, um Anyway, it was a situation of like I want to make a game What are some For lack of a better word concessions that you can make to help make the game easier to make um And I've been talking about this a little bit over the last couple of weeks or the last week or so since we've launched the game um If this game was about robot squirrels, it would be way harder to find Models for you folks as as as you know potential players to define some sort of thing So I was like, all right. I want to make something, you know, miniature zagnostic So what's something that a lot of different companies make demons cool. All right Demons can be all kinds of different things depending on which culture you're talking to, you know Like the Japanese like only demons are very different than say like the more western demons and then the you know like Demons in Africa and all kinds of different stuff So you got all those options as well And then thirdly like initially the idea was is that the majority of the artwork was actually all going to be Old-timey out-of-copyright woodcuts Because they did a lot of woodcuts of demons back in the day. Like that was a thing like there was very popular subject Yeah, yeah, there were no woodcuts of uh microwaves or uh or um televisions or robots or anything like that It was all pretty much demons and skeletons and and people dying because that's what happened all the time I guess I don't know so um And that stuff's pretty metal as well if we're gonna be perfectly honest So that was the original plan was that was I wanted I wanted something to be Very kind of like metal kind of you know, just like I don't know. I wanted to be a skirmish game I wanted to be easy to find stuff easy to build stuff, you know to to to use as the models But I also wanted it to be sort of you know metal af. I think as Doug said and so so yeah That was that was kind of where it started from and then I I reached out to um To vince we were hanging out with sam lens at sam's place in like september of 2019 Vince was visiting and I only live a little ways away from sam and so we got together we were on sam's twitch channel and um I asked vince a little bit about like, you know that kind of stuff and he was like, yeah, that sounds kind of cool And then we didn't really talk about it again until I think february of 2020 just before the whole pandemic thing went pear-shaped and um We he was again visiting and we were hanging out with sam And we were at dinner and I kind of brought it up again a little bit And it was still just kind of newly on my head by that point. I think I had the name figured out already even um, and then Pandemic happened Everything's up in the air and at some point in october. I was just kind of reached out I actually went back and looked at the messages recently and I reached out Yeah, and I was like Do you that thing we were talked about are you interested and then we just started kind of meeting online like every you know thursday And um and just started working from there There you go. Yeah, and that's how it all came together and you know, there was uh Tense period of writing it's funny to work on this stuff in advance when you can't talk about it and things like that But we we had a lot of back and forth we said like I like I mentioned we used a lot of the design principles I often events on the show So things like, uh, you know, we said, okay, what is this thematically and what are our guiding principles? You know, what are so the first principles we're going to operate from? We started sketching out conceptually kind of the different areas of the game You know throwing spaghetti at the wall seeing how different ones would align checking it against the guiding principles And then eventually you hone that down into the specific rules, right? And so that's how we got here, uh, and obviously now the game is available as we mentioned, uh, we're really excited about it being out there Uh, there is I'll talk for just a moment right up front. Let me mention this So obviously the game as I I hope everybody knows at this point, but just in case they don't Uh, it is a game based on, uh, brutal fast paced skirmish combat as mentioned. It is miniatures agnostic Uh, so you can use any miniatures you like for it and people Have been throwing up all sorts of interesting takes on different demons in the face of that group, which I was excited to see um and the You know, the it is it's a game that is has a full campaign mode in it really meant to be played with your friends Over time to be enjoyed over a series of games The motivating concept of the thing is that your Cabal of demons has a certain philosophy A way that they look at hell And they are trying to bring that philosophy into reality Uh, by by hook or crook usually at the end of a sword or a long claw, right? Yeah, we we wanted to keep the fluff pretty short I've come across skirmish games before like small skirmish games that put a lot of time into the lower and I'm sure there are people out there who are like, this is very very very interesting But generally for me, I got to be honest. I'm usually like skim skim skim. Okay, cool You know what I mean? Like with the skirmish game that's that it doesn't make a lot of sense Obviously with like a big army game that's been around for 35 40 years. There are people that are very invested in that like that Space weirdos that I was talking about before. There's like literally no fluff. There's just it's like this is the rules There you go. And so kind of all in the title Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think we gave you all the fluff we need. It's on the cover Yeah, yeah, so I yeah, it was a situation of I think it's a good idea to kind of go that way And when you know if you want to but yeah, absolutely I still remember the it's like a minute elevator version of this I heard from vince many months ago And yeah, blew me away. I mean, it's it's just a very compelling Kind of powerful concept like this mix of its notion of various competing philosophies That are trying to shape the realm of hell, right, you know, accordingly Okay, that's Right, we screwed it up. Yeah, okay. That's an idea that I you know 40 never had that thought go through my head before love it Yeah, it's like it's a really nice premise I'm I'm thrilled with it. And that's you know, as I've said on other shows we'll say again, Adam is really a Fantastic partner to work with it's like for both rules and creativity and ideas Also, Adam is really good at things like design and layout and graphics and stuff all things. I suck real bad at so And it's a good it's a good teamwork. I yeah, and I suck at math and um like Strategy or whatever or strategic or whatever you call it. Yeah, that's stuff Um, so yeah, no, it has been a good partnership because yeah, like I'm like because again It's a situation. We're like early on we definitely iterate back and forth and we've got concepts and things like that And then it gets to a point where it's like, okay now it's time to like sit down and like crunch on the actual rules and things like that and then You know, we'd have these weekly meetings and and vince would be coming up with new stuff and bouncing it off of me And then he'd be like, I'm not sure what to do with this and then I'd try to throw something in there I wouldn't be like, oh I think what you should do is carry the four here because that would help with the variance of the algorithm Like I don't know what that even means But I'd be like it'd be really cool if there was maybe more randomness Or it'd be really cool if there was less random or something like that like a concept or a feeling and then he would be like with him he'd be like You know like yeah, because I mean the the the initiative system though the activation system. I was like I don't want you go I go And I don't want you do all of your stuff and I take a nap and then I do all my stuff and then you take a nap But I and I like the reach into the bag pull out a dice thing from like let's say like like, uh, you know Bolt action and again all this kind of star breach and things like that But I'm like, but I'm looking for something like, you know, like You're gonna be able to see it. It's not just reach in a react But it's like an initial randomness and now we have to kind of figure out how this turn is gonna kind of shake out And we let I the way that that Vince came up with this. I thought it was brilliant So it worked out really well So and a lot of people have commented about the activation system and I know how it's unique and interesting And I think that's what we wanted to go for yeah Yeah, I'm very proud of it's that it's that little thing that I was Most proud of in design Cody said have you ever considered making a game that doesn't use any random number generation? I was tooling around with the system. I mean you could do it Obviously lots of games have no random number generation For example, like chess doesn't really have any random number generation in it or you know checkers or go or anything like that, right? I mean if you play the normal way, I guess. Yeah, sure. No, my pawns roll for their attacks. Yeah I you know, I think that you can I think that one of the challenges is you have to it has to be super duper tight and constrained Because when you eliminate random number generation you very much get on a road where The higher skill player will tend to win out every time Because they simply know how to utilize their pieces in a better way and are not confounded by the unfortunate Nature of fate All right on occasion And so like things can't go wrong for them at the at a moment because they happen to roll a one or something So you you really it has to be a super duper duper duper tight game because if you Uh If not Then one things go off the rails really quick if there are small things that smart players can exploit They just literally will beat the living bejesers out of anybody who doesn't know what they're doing as well Like every time they'll just thrash people, right? And you can see this in chess by the way like if you've ever if you're a chess player And you play chess against somebody who is better than you they will tend to just wipe the floor with you repeatedly Right like you don't have a chance They're like batting around a kitten And and so, you know, I remember there was an episode of comedians and cars where somebody when his guest was talking about playing chess against like a random person he met on the street like A homeless guy who had a chess board and he was like i'll play you but only but if but only twice Unless you win and he plays him twice and beats him twice. He's like, yeah, it's done I never play you again And the reason is because he's not wasting his time, right? He's just this guy who's this chess savant like trying to Find somebody to to actually give him a game So at any rate that's what i'll say about that. Okay. I saw some people asking about the art and stuff like that a little bit in there and um the I don't think I don't we're gonna make a blog post that's gonna have um All of the different because a majority of the artwork that's in the book Is and like if you see this guy kind of in the on the screen here Of he's kind of peeking in between the different boxes and all that kind of stuff like that's a photograph of a 3d printed model That's not a you know digital painting. Well, it is what it is is Vince and I got 3d prints from a bunch of different companies and like I said We're gonna make a blog post so you can see where we got these from I don't remember all the names. I know uh lord of the prints Archvillain games is another one archvillain was one of them. Yeah, I Anyway, but so we're gonna make a blog post where people can see that because we've got a lot of people ask But so a lot of these images in the book are 3d prints That we then painted and then we photographed on like a white background and then we worked with artist empire dot com which is uh You hopefully you've been seeing artist empire on twitter or on youtube and that kind of stuff and and scott Does these digital paintovers where he adds in the sky and the smoke and the grit and the glowing eyes and the Spittle and all that kind of cool stuff and it worked out spectacularly like a lot of them to me I you know I painted some of them and vince painted them and they don't look like Photographs to me. They look like paintings and so yeah, they're super cool. Yeah, when you first showed me some of the art I was like what that is incredible I can't believe that's the thing I painted that came to life in this picture Right. Yeah, absolutely. I think like the the lord of the pit one That's kind of towards the back part of the book I sent you an image of it after it was done because that was one of the first things he finished And i'm like here you go and I think you were like that how does that? Yeah, because it doesn't it's it's it's he does really amazing work. Yeah There you go. Uh Yeah, good stuff. Uh, let's see Uh, and somebody said uh You know, so somebody said did we join forces with titan forge? Nope. That's just one of those things that lined up well Um, because yeah, I guess titan forge is new Release for june. They're a 3d printing and I guess their new one is all demons. Yes I think I saw somebody mention that on twitter actually. Yeah And uh, yeah, just complete random chance like Sometimes life works out. I don't know what to tell you but yeah, there you go Uh, we were very very happy about that So the book begins. I'm just good like I've got the book up by the way This is the actual pdf for everybody We're just gonna kind of walk through this and use this to facilitate discussion If people do have questions as we go feel free to drop the questions And I won't relegate everybody like some q&a section or something like that If you've got questions, you can feel free to drop them in now. I'll be watching and we can answer them Oh brandon s says cast and play as well has a demon month. Oh cool. There you go. All right. So another demon month boy It's a it's a good month for rain and hell to uh to join. Look at all these demon months happening Is it june? I mean is it just a june thing? I wouldn't think so. I mean it's getting warmer. I don't know if that doesn't do it Must be Uh, yeah, that's uh, that's a very funny thing. Uh, okay Uh, all right So, uh, we started with a story Basic story of the of the game Hell is a place It's this other dimension. It's not like the traditional judaeo christian conception of hell or anything like that But it is a dimension of demons And in this other dimension Uh, for the longest time these demons basically had an evil but ordered existence ruled over by the directorate of hell where sort of their single mission was to Uh go to earth and get souls And they would do this in lots of different ways through contracts that they would write with humans for powers or the That traditional kind of story, you know, you sold your soul to the devil kind of thing They would also lure mortals back into hell through there was one portal that connected the two realms The trick is they had to lure them be under false pretenses because humans had to enter willingly It couldn't drag them through the portal And so everything's going fine in dandy and hell world for a long time When uh, unfortunately then somebody gets caught like a demon gets caught. That's over there And when the demon gets caught There's a very clever group of humans who basically get information out of the demon and learn all about hell And the directorate and their mission and kind of get the full skinny Decide they've had enough of this nonsense as as humans often do It kind of kick it up the chain like it goes to the church and it goes from the church to the Universities and then the government and it's then yeah, so it's it's a it's a You know because this has been going on for a long time and the the people who rule earth in different facilities Have know this, you know, but uh now they've got a leg up There you go, and so the Eventually what the humans do is they say, all right, that's it as I said enough of this nonsense They rally up a big team big group of humans Go into hell Destroy the directorate cause a lot of chaos close the portal Okay And so All of the leadership of hell is slain or destroyed or displaced Uh The portal to hell their their important avenue of souls is collapsed And so now we join the story some amount of time later some age later time obviously works differently in hell anyways And Hell is in chaos. This is effectively a post apocalyptic story in hell like we snuck a post apocalyptic game in on you, right? Because hell had an apocalypse right where all of their leadership and their society crumbled around them So now we find groups skirmishing in the wastelands Trying to bring a new vision of hell into power or maybe just Exacerbate the existing conditions as a matter of fact some people think that Maybe actually this is the best way and this is how it always should have been and we were fooling ourselves By trying to live in a society Uh, you know, we're demons. Let's act like it, right? No spoilers, but this has gone well with the good place which you've been bugging me to watch for the last two years And I'm I'm finally I don't know if you're gonna read it, but I'm wearing my good place shirt. There you go right there. Yes Uh, I had to get a shirt that was appropriate for tonight and the good place shirt was the only the only possible one to wear Holy mother forking shirt balls. Um So at any rate, um That's that's where we kind of join up is with these demons in here Just a quick note because I think this is a question to get asked a lot too Uh You know, what is hell like That is to say, what does this look like, right? Okay, we're going to make terrain. What's the the sort of uh, What is the terrain of hell and the answer is Anything inhospitable, I think right now. I mean, that's how you'd phrase it. How do you think of it? Yeah, I mean, it's not like you're like, you know in in at least in Judeo-Christian stuff It's a you know lake of fire and all that kind of stuff and whatever And really like there's a little bit of that going on here and there but there's also like, uh, dry uh sulfur, you know sulfurous steps of uh, what you know tundra There's uh frozen wastes here and there even you know, there's toxic pools So as far as like actual like modeling for your terrain Um anything that looks and there's even ruins because there were there was building there was I mean to some degree almost commerce going on before everything went all You know wildly and um, so So you can use ruins from You know anything very vaguely gothic looking, you know or whatever, uh, you know, um, it's not like we're dealing with um Office buildings particularly, you know like that. It's uh, but yeah, so there's a lot of things you can do with that You can do things like I said toxic pools rocky crags. I mean we we go through um later on in the book We go through a little bit of the Um different options for terrain and that's a good indicator of what you can you know what you kind of stuff you can use Yeah 100% I'm always like I don't see any reason why there wouldn't just be a bunch of inhospitable stuff It's like the sort of the same thing as we would expect in our world, but worse in every way just horrible Uh darnock x had asked question You mentioned many more things written than was published as you do during design any chance for a release of this Rain and Hell sketchbook or something I doubt it only because most of this stuff that was cut was cut for a reason So like you you know, there's no directors cut to put out there. There's not going to be a Snyder cut for this book Because everything that was there was cut, you know by adam and I because it wasn't good Or wasn't good enough It wasn't like our publisher was like we're going to get rid of this whole section and then we're like no We're going to bring it back later like the we're the publisher. So yeah, no, it wasn't um, right Yeah On the you guys mentioned doing a blog post with various files related demons. Maybe we could do something on terrain I've been doing this working on this terrain project will be announcing down the road And yeah, I've got it I'm thinking of all different kinds of terrain that I've seen over the last few weeks. I might be very relevant Yeah, I think that it terrain came up in an interesting discussion that happened in one of the facebook groups today And you know, I think it is I think we underestimate and undervalue Like what having good terrain and really thinking about the nature of the terrain you're using In the game means right because that you can it can it can hugely impact the game Just another quick thing never winner said will anyone here do a bat rep demo of rain and hell or were ash barker We doing it first So ash had said the games in the queue I don't know what that means as far as when it goes because he has a lot of games that people have asked him to demo Absolutely over a gorilla miniature games, but you don't have to wait the miniatures paintbrush Which will be linked down below after the show. I just didn't get the link in there beforehand He does have a bat rep up right now Of the first game that he and his buddy played through so you can go check that out right now And I know that a group called skirmish miniature gaming or skirmish miniature games they I watched their video today and they were talked about like this video was going to go up after the bat rep But I looked and the bat rep wasn't up yet So I'm assuming they must have filmed that they're still working on it But so I could see them probably next to and you'd said also that you thought Doug was working on Yeah, I think Doug had mentioned he was going to do one as well. Yeah All right, uh, okay, sorry just catching up with all the um Just so as I said generally in hospital when people said so the inside of an Ikea or Detroit I think those are both absolutely fair Absolutely Uh, Molly says how long it does it normally take for the physical books to arrive? It varies a lot based on where you are in the world. I think they on their site What do they list as the shipping time like? Well, it's things are slightly slower because of COVID and all that they have a facility in the u.s That prints in a facility in the uk that prints so If you're not kind of close to those two it can take longer, but I don't frankly know I swear somebody did say that That I know I've seen somebody say that they've gotten a shipping Notice that has happened already so that that that's yeah, it's not crazy crazy long And it also depends on whether like if you picked media mail It'll take a good deal longer potentially so it depends on what you pick for your shipping option too, right? Yeah Uh, yeah, okay. Uh, and yes, team pal said ash did do a man reads book. Yes, he did. He did do a man who reads book Um, which is pretty popular. We were looking at before. Uh, absolutely. Yeah, that's great All right, we were we were very grateful in for doing that. Ash is an awesome guy. It was very very very nice of him Yeah, uh, oh sergeant matt sergeant mash said my book shipped on monday. So there you go. I would imagine it They're they're out there. Okay So, well, let's just talk about some what is what is playing the game like? What do you need that kind of stuff? Um basic stuff you need is a play area of roughly 22 by 30 inches if that number's familiar to you it's because that's the exact size of a Uh war cry or kill team board, which we thought were pretty popular and out there But at the same time it's also a pretty easy space to just mark off of your larger gaming table like you could very easily just measure that out in a larger space and just You know put down some tape or or put some rulers the edge or something like that And if you love using lots and lots of terrain, there's no reason not to go a little larger as well Or if you decided that all your bases are going to be massive because again, all this is suggestions It's your game. You know, I mean you you play it the way you want So, you know def like I've had I've seen some people online go. Well, I don't play war cry or anything So I don't have that like well, that's fine. Then use something close, you know Yeah, that's that's that's why we play these games Right, exactly like if you want to use a three by three board that be fine You I would just recommend you like increase the starting areas to nine by nine inches instead of six by six So you get into the action Uh in about the same amount of time because that'll sort of compensate for the the increase in volume Um, but you can absolutely play with with different sizes. And so if you you know, whatever whatever makes sense for you Uh is what I'll say you need uh like three to five pieces of terrain So not too bad. Um, obviously if you have more if you already have any kind of other Terrain for other war games, assuming it's not as you said like industrialized city buildings or stuff It's probably fine Ruins shrines forests giant crystals tar pits craters rocky crags Yeah, all all fine. Yeah all fine And you don't have to fear any oddities of terrain either you guys have one of the best rules on verticality that I've seen Which in terms of how you handle climbing and and all of that very very simple and elegant love it Yeah, we keep we tried to keep the terrain system simple, but really effective There's one situation that Somebody brought up in a facebook group today that I thought was interesting. Um, we'll probably discuss it when we get to terrain Um, that you could like if you design your terrain or you're using terrain that is in a certain exact way You can have a start like you can lead to a bad situation But that's you know, there's always going to be new ones, right? Because it's terrain has an infinite number of permutations So there's always a chance, right? okay And then you need seven to ten miniatures to represent your demons Uh, there are recommended base sizes. Most of the base sizes we're talking about here are basically 25 to 40 mil We offer a range instead of a specific base for each demon type I'm so as long as you're generally in the range you're fine Uh leaders go up to 50 and the devout go up to 60 Correct. Yep. So if you want big old if you want your leader and your devout to stand apart We agree that can look very cool. But by the way, they don't have to you can have them on Bases too power doesn't necessarily equate to size. You can have uh, like I always You know think about um, this is one of the things I mentioned to you I think at one point because we were actually having discussions about well Do we want to mirror this to size in some way and we both agreed? No one of my favorite Uh factions in malifaux was the neverborn And one of the like most powerful brutes is a little tiny girl She's like a 10 year old girl. This is her eight year old girl Right and she just has like a knife behind her back and a little basket full of skulls and she will rock you If she's a beast Okay, so like I just I love stuff like that Uh, so yeah, there's there's no reason you have to necessarily make them big but you can However, you see your warband. That's that's the point Uh, and then a number of d12s equal to the demons in your kampal And at least 10 d6 dice There you go. Get them d12s Uh, this was one of those things that to me. I was shocked more people don't have Because I just have buckets and buckets of dice, but I guess that's what 30 years plus of being a role player Well, we'll do do you have playing d&d for more than 30 years You just there's just all open drawers. I'll be like, oh dice. It's just dice in here. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's it's I mean I think if and and It's one of those things where I guess we were looking at it from the aspect of just being old gamers who've been collecting For a long time, but if you're relatively new to this and you've been predominantly playing Just miniature games you've probably just been mostly playing with um d6s frankly, so yeah The you know the d12s is a little bit of a Different thing, but it's not Pretty much any game store is going to be able to carry them and that kind of stuff So and then also if you don't have a game store near you like you can get these little baggies Usually like of 10 for not too expensive on places like amazon and probably other types of online shops that sell game stops. Yeah Uh, just wait for the future game Uh, whether we write wherein I uh somehow trick adam into using zuchi dice So it's all d5s d7s d11s Yeah, all the zuchi dice like only the zuchi dice. That's all you use Then we're really throwing you for a loop very sharp Okay, I still have a d100 Oh, absolutely Everybody who plays role-playing games at some point in your life. You buy the d100 you roll it once and go Oh, yeah, that's really hard to read. Wow. That's it. Yeah, basically Yeah I guess we could have just stuck with the 2d10s. Yeah, that was probably better Uh, okay Uh, let's see. So this is the I'm not going to go through all the different things or the example of play because you can Like those will kind of be on their own and we'll get into the meat of this here. So Let's just talk we're going to kind of move through here We kind of tells you how to start a play and how the structure of a round and things like that But I do want to talk about the activation system because that is probably a thing worth talking about So, uh, the nature of the activation system is thusly this is where the d12s come in Uh, the you roll a number of at the start of the round You roll a number of d12s equal to the number of demons in your cabal So if you have seven demons on the field at that moment Then you roll 70 12 as you lose demons over the course of the game. You will roll less dice So you have two demons die from your seven and you got five left you roll five d12s both players do this Once you've rolled, uh, you then set them up on your play sheet There's a little spot on your play sheet where you put the dice in descending order And then you just activate in order Down from the highest to the lowest going back and forth in order Now if there is a tie Then the person who didn't activate last goes So in other words if I rolled a 12 and an 11 and adam you rolled an 11 as your highest i Then I would activate my 12 Adam would activate his 11 because he didn't go last so it alternates and then it would come back to me from my 11 Okay, so pretty straightforward and we just keep going Once when you activate a demon you take the die off your play sheet You place it next to the demon to show that they've been activated. You can't activate the demon more than once per round and then That activation dice has been spent Assuming nothing else happens You will spend one die per demon and they will all activate and do their various things And that's pretty straightforward. If you have more players Then you rotate clockwise again following the same rule of who didn't activate last in a clockwise fashion Uh, so it is what I love about it What I love about this system and one of the reasons that we we wrote it Was because I like the idea of there being randomness to it That is to say like who's going to go is random. It's not a hard locked order But but at the same time I love the idea that it's visible randomness, right? Okay, it's randomness, but you see it at the beginning of the turn. It's not I have to react every single time I reach into the bag or we have to roll off For each activation or anything along those lines. It is at the beginning of the turn There's some flurry of activity and then you're just like Okay, so he's gonna have three Three movements three different activations in the six phase because he rolled three six You know and I know that now so I'm going to keep that in mind And I know that I'm you know and so you're looking at their dice and you're looking at your own dice And you're kind of eyeing it up It's kind of like in um Like in star wars x-wing because in star wars x-wing it was based off of your pilot skill So the lower pilots the lower skilled pilots had to move first And so they kind of got all the position and then the higher skilled pilots Got to move towards the end and kind of like you know get a beat on the lower pilots and things like that Except that it's changing every single turn. You know what I mean? Instead of just being like hey, this is the way it is during the entire game It's like now all of a sudden things are different and so that's that's of I really like the activation system Yeah, one of the things I'm always thinking about in game design is symmetrical knowledge versus asymmetrical knowledge Right and then how players play with that and in general one of the places where skill can lever in pretty strongly Is in symmetrical knowledge So for example, we we both know what we both rolled that's symmetrical knowledge, right? It's open information that is completely Known to both parties, right? so there's a chance to lever skill there because I can choose To use the things that this knowledge in a better way than my opponent by Activating the right demons in the right order setting myself up for success in the beginning of the turn for later in the turn Right and so on and so forth Uh, and and so that like this really ticked a lot of boxes for me Um, I will openly admit that when you first read it it can feel a little fiddly Like I I don't disagree. I've had some people say wow that feels kind of fiddly It does but I promise you the first time you roll was, you know standing apart from another human It's just gonna be smooth as butter because you're just counting down numbers Right like everybody can count down from 12 to 1 And the thing that's that's also I think important is like it's it's mimicking to some degree like because of the way that this battle is happening It's happening predominantly all hand to hand It's all melee combat and it's on a board that you that you would think that the leader can kind of see relatively well and kind of get the The lay of the land every round, you know, like oh things are not going well for me this turn You know this round whereas they're going better other times games like, um Like bolt action What that whole concept of reaching into the bag and pulling out a die is that the fog of war is making it so we can't plan Any further ahead that basically the next thing happens because stuff's exploding and there's dirt in the air and smoke And this building fell over and all this crap and all that, you know And so that's kind of like the way that the activation works Really can mimic what's going on in the actual battle Whereas and it's there's nothing wrong with it But sometimes just the well you go and then I'm going to go and you go it like doesn't really bring into consideration What's actually happening? It's just kind of uh, well, it's not difficult to do It's an easy thing for people to understand. You know what I mean? And there's nothing wrong with that If you want to go more abstract, that's great. But if you want to have something that's a little bit more Indicative of the actual action then you kind of have to look for different ways to make the activation work well Yeah, so I'm sure so it's up to 10 Demons in a warband correct. Yeah So I'm just thinking about the spectrum and the potential for an extreme outcome You know where someone Beats the math and rolls a bunch of low numbers And the other person rolls a bunch of high numbers. I'm sure you guys have thought about that What are your thoughts on that and how that might impact the game and blah blah blah? Yeah, so that's one of the reasons we use the d12 as opposed to a d10 Right, so to create more variance than there are slots, right? It just it expands the variance just enough the when when uh, I sort of ran the math on doing it with a d20 Because you might think like oh, why not go all the way up and just do it with d20s, right? Then you've really got a lot of space where you could you'd have less doubles The problem is doubles aren't necessarily bad Like if I buy that I mean both player achieving the same number Because when both players achieve the same number it starts to create just a standard back and forth rhythm Right So I wanted it tight enough that the 12 was kind of the perfect math It created just enough space to where it became extremely mathematically unlikely to have huge runs Sure, right, but quite likely to have small runs Does that make sense what i'm saying there? Yeah So the the idea being like It's pretty common in your role to be able to activate Two or three times, but then your opponent to activate two or three times, right? It's much less common for you to activate six times and then them go six times Which is what would happen if you spread out to a d20. You'd actually increase the likelihood Okay, right. Yeah, that makes sense. That's that's math Yeah No, that's cool Now did you start was this the first idea or was this the sixth idea in terms of an activation or an initiative? You know, I I think this was actually a pretty early idea This kind of came to me as I was just bouncing around concepts based on what adamant said like adamant thrown out kind of the The you know the parameters of like, hey, here's the things I think would be cool And I was definitely in agreement and this kind of just floated to my head one day Right, that I was like, okay. I mean, I there was it wasn't perfect. It wasn't some, you know, platonic Popped in my head fully formed. There's a light coming down. Yeah, exactly No, it wasn't that uh But you know, it was pretty close. So I didn't it didn't undergo a huge amount of changes We we did there was a lot to talk about the dice. That was sort of the main thing Right, we can bounce around I actually started on d12's, but then we had to go up and down and test around, right? Uh, it's probably sort of conversation on it. Hold on. So start off says so I basically have Need to customize current models to build my own unique models for this game So the answer is no, you could certainly use any of your current models. So like if you have like their demons It's whatever you want demons to look like. So if you have for example Well, let's just be very on the nose if you've got some current games workshop Demons like bloodletters or stuff like that. Sure. Just use them straight away No problems. No drama at all, right? However, if you wanted to customize them some and you've got a bunch of bits from various demons that you've had over the years Hey start slamming stuff together go nuts. You can do that, right? That's fine, too If you want to use it as an excuse to maybe buy a couple weird miniatures from a line You always thought was cool, but never had a use for good chance to do that Pick up some 3d prints off of my mini factory off of vetsy or whatever good chance to do that, right? So there's it's Whatever is going to be, you know, make your vision be real is the answer there start off. So there you go Miniatures agnostic as an as a Identifier is actually and I made a video about this a little while ago as part of a video It's actually a bit of a warning and all it's saying is we don't have a miniature line for you to to use You're going to have to come up with something yourself Now you can use whatever you want, but technically any game you can use whatever you want if you're going to play competitive Aos or 40k and it's an official tournament They probably want you to use actual gw stuff and then other tournaments do the same I don't know if you can play malifaux with just gw stuff or stuff from other companies, you know, whatever But when you are playing with your friends and things like that, you can use whatever you models you want for any game The idea of miniatures agnostic when a company says, oh, this game is miniature agnostic That just means you're going to kind of have to figure out and that's a You know, so some people that's like, oh man, I don't want to but other people are like, oh cool Now I could use this and this and this and that and whatever but I could also use stuff I've already got, you know, so yeah, absolutely That's all right Josh says if you have a giant pile of opportunity in your closet, maybe you can pull from that works too Yes, absolutely. I think a lot of us have have shelves of opportunity In in our closets 100% Um Okay, so you go through the round you activate all your demons the rounds repeat Obviously, this is all framed by a scenario We'll talk about scenarios a little later as to because those are just kind of the obviously the structure for what you're playing for in the game The Building your cabal. Let's talk about how this gets built so There's sort of a couple different levels of one off game if you want to do like a hundred point game or a 200 point game Fine, you can just roll with that now when we say that here's an important thing that I think has come up in the in the 200 point game, it's actually Not incredibly likely you will spend all 200 of those points Like your cabal will be maxed Uh in in 200 points and it and and you might still have a few points left over That's intentional because we were assuming if you're doing it as a one-off you wanted to kind of Get the full experience of here's a full cabal And you know, I can buy a bunch of greater demons like you can you can use all your points if you buy heavy integrators Um Demons have three different levels less are greater and superior um But the key being is that the actual level of the demons mad like Uh somebody with 190 points playing somebody with 180 points Actually is basically going to feel completely the same like there's not any difference there in the outcome of that The 190 point person has no real advantage Um because it's you both have this, you know, you've both spent to full Cabals like you you both got the same model. So that's going to do a lot more work than than the minor points differential So we we set that higher bar knowing you would often have Points left over for that kind of a standard game because we just assumed if you flipped that setting You were like the hey, we want to get together and have a big smackdown Game, right? So this was the way to blow the doors off and allow you to take anything from that range Without constraining you too much, right? Like because that that's kind of the idea But we really hope that what people play is campaign games Which started 100 points smaller cabals and then you build up over time right So, I mean adam, I know campaign is was a huge Point for both of us. I know you were especially Yeah, I mean I I just I I've never been a particularly competitive player and I love As I've been playing more skirmish games lately. I also really really love the concept of It's not role playing per se. It's not like, okay Well, we're gonna go into the tavern and ask the tavern keeper. What's been going on? I mean, it's not that it's more like video game role playing We're like, okay cool I went up another level and it's time to put points into this and point points into that There's never the The the more I don't want to say acting but you know that kind of thing It's more just like as I play or as you and I play let's say if we're gonna play a campaign I love the aspect of having these demons kind of have their own personality and get smarter or better or find relics or get titles I mean the titles thing was kind of a big deal and a lot of people have reacted quite well to that And I've been really glad that that's that that idea that was kind of rolling around in my head I'm like I want like xbox achievements, but I want to mean something and I want to give them to the actual demons You know, like I early concept was like the demons were going to have a name And if you knew the name because there's that whole concept if you know the true name Yeah, the demon true naming You know, I was trying to figure out a way to like work that in and why that would be beneficial But I'm like and I think from that it was where all of a sudden I was like the idea of titles is cool Like you could have this guy just be called, you know shattered You know shattered eye, but if he's shattered eye the betrayer, that's pretty cool And if it actually gives him a benefit because he got the betrayer title, you know that kind of stuff. Yeah Yeah, definitely Yeah, Ben more by the way said how do you feel about the description frost grave with demons? Well, one I would take it as an immense compliment since frost grave is probably the most successful Independent game, you know game of its type ever published Yeah, so that would be quite a compliment that I don't I don't think I deserve or would live up to But there's a lot of mechanical differences there. Oh, yeah, and frost grave is also A lot thicker of a book. There's a lot more going on. I don't have frost grave near me No, I don't um, but uh, yeah, it's a much thicker of a book star grave as well I really love the concept star grave and I've been working on and off here and there in my free time On a star grave um crew and I want to do a couple of those and so yeah It's not ever I guess I think a lot of people are like, oh, well if it's a campaign game Then it's star grave, but I mean war cries got a campaign game. I mean kill team technically as a campaign game It's not I hope that they make better campaign rules Maybe when they make second edition kill team, but you know Campaign I think is there's nothing wrong with the competitive stuff and the competitive stuff is honestly the easy part To some degree as long as you can make the rules work pretty well The competitive stuff is relatively easy because it's predominantly just one off game So you're just playing a game and there you go and then you're done The competitive or the the campaign stuff is actually a little bit harder because It can become to a situation, you know in some in some campaigns where it just You know someone can just run away with it and that's part of the reason why we also Didn't really want to do A you play seven games and then you're done or you play five games or you first person to this Because if you start to play a campaign even in this system and it does One person just starts to run away with it Then you can call it and start over and you're not like well now we gotta we gotta you know grind through several more You know because it's just we thought it was better to keep it things open Open-ended if things are real tight like neck and neck you could just keep playing and play 20 games You know that'd be fine too right, yeah Uh AF I agree plan of 28. You mentioned that earlier. It's a great game Let's see Michael Newbank says is it possible to have a battle with someone you just met using your campaign cabal versus theirs from a separate campaign Sure the easy way to evaluate that would just be to see like do you both have the same number of demons or ask them How many campaign games they've played? As long as it's close You're fine like actually numbers tend to matter a decent amount of this Like if you're at a starting number of seven and you're maybe like one campaign in and you have a game in and you haven't recruited Anybody else yet and they're you know five six games in and they've maxed out their their number of demons and um You know they uh already have gotten a bunch of additional essences and relics and stuff It's like oh, it's that might be a bit tough They're gonna probably be on some pretty significantly advanced footing But as long as you're in sort of similar places in the campaign. Yeah, there's no There's no reason you couldn't just both have a game It's generally designed to be that you and a friend sit down and play or you and a group if you're going to be playing later I'd say up to four or something like that, you know Kind of using the this the scenarios that have that ability, but it's it's not so much like oh, I'm going to go It's not like I'm You know like a video game where you're like you've leveled up to this point And then you go through into a pvp area now You're going to play with somebody else who's up at the same level or maybe wildly different levels It's generally more Like you could take those same models and then kind of go back to zero and then decide to play with this person And just play a one-off game if you wanted to Um, it could get kind of unfair. Yeah If there are 10 demons and you're just you know only two one or two games in and you start sitting at seven or eight max Yeah, yeah um the uh, let's see uh Hobby hero said campaign tracking sheet log I'm not sure what I'd put onto that for a campaign tracking most of the campaign tracking stuff You can do on the play sheet that's there. We are working on a title tracker. Um, that'll go up You know relatively soonish. Obviously, there's a lot of things. We're in the middle of trying to get A lot of different supporting materials out for the game To keep you know making sure we're putting stuff in your hands They're going to help facilitate good games The title trackers one of the next things that'll that'll be around there And that's to help you keep track of your titles because some of them are earned over multiple games So this is just an easy way to to do that Um, so yeah, there we go Uh, okay, so your cabal consists of uh leaders Devout, uh, sorry a leader a devout and minions which we'll get through all of them in a minute But before we get into them, we'll talk about that. Let's talk about the philosophies Because this is this is probably was the most fun thing To to concept out and write I think in the whole book So as we mentioned the the um The nature of demons in hell In this sort of post-apocalyptic world is they're all fighting to bring their philosophy to the four, right? So they're trying to build up enough power and souls and whatever to Come out as the sort of dominant philosophy And the six philosophies are you can see them on screen here But it's the lords of hell the earthbound the demented the brokers the judges and the empty Um, the lords of hell being what I would call like the sort of we want to go back to the good old days group Uh, they're they are very uh, they they want to restore the former order Right. Um, the earthbound are just basically like not this is hell's over. Let's get out of here We got to get enough souls to power that portal back up somehow And then back to earth where all the good stuff is now there they have as I've said many times They have kind of an underpants gnomes Uh plan it's like step one collect souls step two Step three we get back to earth, right? So like there's there's a missing part of their plan But darn it. Are they are they down for it? Um, the demented are those who sort of chosen to embrace the current reality Uh, they're very sort of anarchist They're anarchists and there we go those who seek after order in this madness are the truly insane That's a great quote. Exactly That is their quote and we tried to give everybody like quotes and stuff like that So you really got a feel for them. We also gave you iconography in all of these so that if you want to model your demons with little Iconography that sort of represented it again. You don't have to in any way, right? But it's just little Visual signifiers that we thought could be cool that way no matter what models you're using Oh, you know, you're this you're the demented. So hence you use these particular icons That's neat. It kind of ties them all together. Even if you use a wide range of different models Little different extra hobby kind of without hints, I guess, yeah, right Uh, so yeah, they're embracing the chaos. Um, the brokers who are the sort of, uh, They are the ultra capitalist, I suppose, but really they're war profiteers. That's the best way you can say it They're trade they're buying and trading and souls I defined them. I think when we talked, uh, on friday or saturday as like as the The heads of bullet town and gas town and water town or whatever Maxfield road, right? Like they're rich because they have a huge supply of the main resource. Everybody needs Yeah, right Um, and I don't have to be good at fighting if I can pay somebody else to write exactly I don't think this isn't gonna land but I don't care I watched a whole lot of boston legal back in the day because you know, it's a fun show Whatever and there's a scene where the main protagonist character, uh He gets in a bar fight, but he's also a very rich lawyer So instead of getting in the bar fight, he just reaches over he leans over to two guys and is like I'll give you $500 to fight. He just he's like $500 you you and you each if you fight this guy for me And so they just jumped the heck out of the guy. It was challenging him. I'm like, that's the brokers to a tee Yeah so, um The judges use and abuse basically the rules and the sort of meta rules of hell because hell is this alternative dimension that has weird Rules, you know, they don't abide by the traditional laws of physics So they're basically like mad scientists after a fact, I suppose like they use that their technology is the metaphysical laws of hell And they use it and abuse it for power They're like the worst silicon valley would have to offer. I suppose right just abusing the the rules of of technology to uh to to win indeed, yeah You mentioned, I mean the whole role playing I mean We talked about that there's certainly plenty of opportunity to really lean into that as you're playing your games You know get get into your role as the judges That'd be fun as hell Absolutely And then the empty are the true ultra nihilists Right like they do believe in nothing Uh, but they're they want to see hell and and just everything unmade Like this is what they saw from this is that the the lesson that they learned is that this is all a failure Right, we don't deserve to exist anymore. All of this is wrong. It was wrong before it's wrong now It's broken and it cannot be fixed, right? Effectively it's like they they drop the teapot. It's shattered into a million pieces They don't think it can be glued back together. The only thing to do is sweep it out and throw it up in the trash throw it out in the trash Right, so they're they're seeking after oblivion And the the main reason we went with these these philosophies like in a lot of games there are Factions, you know in some in a lot of indie games. There's just there's no factions It's just like you make some folks and they fight each other and that's cool And then there are other games obviously age of sigmar, you know 40k malifaux like you know all these different games where there's wildly different reasons why these factions exist and the models are very specific you wouldn't use the lumeneth folks In you know the place of space marines and you wouldn't use this and you know It's just it's the the models in the story are tied so closely together And because this is miniature zagnostic we wanted to give people the options to be able to do what they want But we still wanted to give them also sort of like this kind of factions sort of situations So rather than just making factions and then helping that people's Models would sort of fit we're like well, what's kind of like a faction? But maybe not we let's not like change the race or the idea Like you know the idea is the important part and like what they believe and that's where the philosophies came from And then the benefit to the philosophies is that it tweaks the way That the leader works it tweaks the way that the devout works it tweaks the way that the entire You know warband can work because there's a different rule for each of those three things within each of the different philosophies Yeah, and I really like what we came to with sort of each one of these the devout Each each philosophy has its own unique devout like he just mentioned And you know, I really am happy with all of the different devout and how they work they they have their own unique mechanics the leader has his own unique mechanic and then sort of the uh the Lessons are all kind of shared across but they'll be modified by whatever's going on in your philosophy. So Do you guys have a favorite child of the six philosophies? Oh, I do absolutely Yeah, I think we both actually have the same one, but but Adam what's yours? Well, so like earthbound story wise. Yes. I've always I just I love the concept of these of these these demons just been like, all right We're gonna take this fight back to those jerks who screwed everything up here You know what I mean? I like that a lot That being said, I'm really enjoying the more modeling Opportunities and things like that and a little bit of the gameplay stuff for the demented So I've kind of actually just discovered that recently But like I love this the the story of the earthbound is kind of more my jam So yeah for me, it would be the earthbound and the judges because the judges Honestly, mostly because of their two devouts Uh like the earthbound have the succubus who I truly love. She's a very impactful piece, but she's also very fragile So you gotta really be careful with her She really stood out looking through it. Yeah Yeah, uh the judges have just like the absolute Bruiser of their uh of their philosophy like their devout is not to be trifled with He is the like he is the heavy, right? And so he can he can do real work. Um I I see uh sergeant says the empty. I mean, so Uh, I had a person in play testing who really liked playing the empty We got a lot of runs in with the empty and I mean, there's such a different play style when you play with the empty It's so funny how different a lot of things end up being how how crazy different you can make it just with It was some minor tweaks like the particular relic in essence You choose for your leader and the leader you choose and the development comes with it and then the bonus you get It's it's funny how different even when you share a lot of the same pieces it can end up feeling so Yeah All right, so yes, that's kind of how these all break down as you can see You know we they all as we mentioned have a quote. They all have their specific devout The common iconography we mentioned we go into their philosophy and then as mentioned there is a leader bonus So your leader itself gets some extra bonus for being sort of the chief Uh prophet of this particular belief system and then also there's a special ability for that then hands out to your entire cabal There you go For the most part there is a few exceptions like for example The benefit of the lords of hell is just you get to recruit one additional additional lesser minion for free Right, so they just does not a bonus person Doesn't allow you to 11 It's just you get you don't have to pay souls for right exactly Yes, you're still capped at 10 because you're always capped at 10 because 10 is the cap and the cap is 10 but Effectively you can start at eight if you want most war vans will start at seven you can pretty easily start at eight so Okay So then Let's talk about the so obviously a lot of the demons have cost. This is just the summary tables for all of them The I'll leave it on this page to say that when you start a campaign game or you're just doing your standard hunter point game Uh, there is Basically six different by the way, you're gonna feel like that number repeats a lot in this game. That's well, it's not an accident um the There are six basic lesser demon types all kind of fill a sort of specific role. They all have varying costs Uh and stuff like that. So that's why they're That's what you chiefly recruit from in those Greater demons represent things that are harder to get your hands on you can recruit graders in a 200-point game Or you can eventually recruit greater greater demons as you gain experience In the campaign you eventually gain the ability to recruit graders. Graders are just sort of More powerful versions of It's kind of the basic ones that is to say they They're each unique and they have their own things going on but they have more They're they're more I guess what I would say They're they're big biggie versions and then the superior demons are The absolute tippy top of the sort of existing hierarchy You have to go very deep into a campaign to recruit them because they are all Very powerful forces in their own right like these represent sort of paragons and they're in you know of of Power in hell and bringing in a superior demon into your fold into your belief structure is One very impactful in the game and two Uh represents in the narrative of the thing something pretty Big because you've convinced one of these really powerful figures to join your cause, right? Uh Derek says what time period does this take place on the earth realm like what time period is it in earth? The answer is I know what the answer is, but i'm not going to tell you Because it is a secret and it may have something to do with something we might do at some point in the future So there you go if I copy added that enough Uh, but yes, there there's your answer Uh, yeah, maybe a little I mean it there's there's not a specific answer in the in the the fluff But you can kind of get a general idea for Like when that demon was caught and that kind of stuff Hopefully just from the fluff so that can hopefully you know at least give you a hint to some degree Yes, there are there are hints of when that happened though not when it is now Uh, okay Uh Yeah, so that's kind of the the demon breakdown keep in mind all these demons can also evolve Uh, so your lesser demons actually have their own greater and superior forms So they don't become sort of dead weight in your cabal or something over time So if you've got a slaughter fiend he can become a greater slaughter fiend and a superior slaughter fiend So you can either level your existing demons or recruit new ones or likely both So we uh, we we stole that from the pokemans People like evolutions that's what I Pokemans are super popular. There you go Uh, all right. So your leader, uh, yeah, you got three types of leaders a warrior Sort of the kind of all-arounder guy who's just good at combat The schemer who is not your fighter but is more of obviously the master manipulator and then the zealot Which is the sort of frenzied just fanatic of their particular faith and they're they're all about the offense Adam, what's your what's your feeling? What do you tend to to lean to on your leader type there? Um, I think for my demented. It's definitely I'm I'm looking at a schemer but for my For my earthbound. I'm looking generally at a more of a zealot But That nice nice Efren yes, the answer to your question is if you have three total people then you would need 30 d12s Yes, max ever So yes, that is correct because you can never have more than 10. So the most you'd ever roll is 10 That's right Yeah, I'm a zealot. I'm a zealot man myself. I really I really love the zealot. I love everything about him Uh, he's you know, relatively fast and uh, just absolutely great in I like I like going for the offense Surprising that as an iron jaws player. I would back the thing that uh, that's just like all in on on offensive attacks Yeah, sure. It's weird. It's weird Yeah, hit me brandon. You gotta ran and said he has a reddit question regarding the schemer. Sure. Absolutely Go ahead hit me with that and we'll I'll I'll keep moving but I will answer your question once you put drop it in there Uh, okay Um I'll I'll also use this to stick on here for a second to just explain the three stats Uh, there are three stats which are move Which is how far you move in inches It's pretty straightforward Life, which is how much life points you have until you die if you take that much damage you're slain Pretty straightforward and then your combat score Uh, and we'll talk about combat and how that works in just a little while when we get to the combat section But it is a relevant number that has to do that sets both your ability to attack and defend yourself and so on and so forth Uh, so there you go So brandon s says does master manipulator does this count as a special ability that specifically allows a second activation? Or is the intention to skip initiative for another cabal member? Yeah, great question so, uh So what and I'll read the the ability here. I don't know. Yeah, that's we'll move it up here Just a little bit. I'm gonna make sure it's completely on screen Um, but yeah, so master manipulator says whenever the schemer activates He may choose to remove one die from your set of activation dice when his turn is complete If he does so another demon within 12 inches may instead be activated and take their turn immediately Uh, so that's that's the section that brandon is referencing here So the question is does this allow you to break the rules on the normal? You cannot double activate someone and the answer is no because it's not in there that it allows you to break the rules So you can't right like what it allows you to do is jump in the line Right, so you could you can the old harry bellafonte trick as we call it You know, you've got a you've got a demon. You really need to go Your opponent's going to go next. Hey, I'll burn off my one Right because you can use any die from your activation pool and instead of you going next ha ha tricks My guy goes next right and so that's and because the because the uh, The the leader himself can only activate once you can only do this once right, but then that's what happens Now the second part of his ability, which is in addition once per round When an enemy demon would attack the schemer the schemer may choose to remove one and spent activation die if he does So he may move So that is breaking the normal rules because it's saying It's not you're not actually activating Like you're not taking a turn. It's just allowing you a bonus thing right you get to move effectively He sneaks away from people right The attacker may still choose to attack any other target in range after this move is completed, right? So the the key there being that That it doesn't that again You're still not activating the demon twice because the the leader doesn't get to attack again Or do other things or choose a combat style. He just literally moves Right. It's so it's uh burning an unspent activation die to do a specific thing So there you go Cool hope that answered your question Brandon Okay, cool Great good question. I am putting together by the way an FAQ we will Get an FAQ up once I've sort of collected and aggregated and really thought about answers Like I'm watching the facebook groups and people who send questions or or anything like that I'm trying to correlate all these together so that So that I can put stuff out where where people need clarifications or anything like that and I will I will clarify the the schema in there Because that is a great question Okay, uh adam you don't tell us about essences and relics Because I think this is pretty important So, yeah, so the idea basically is that again to because we're looking at What would I guess traditionally be a low number of stats in many different types of miniature games, you know You've got you've got move you got life You got the combat like that's it But we wanted to keep that part simple ish for the most part because we do have a decent amount of special abilities like the ones that come from your philosophy or potentially the ones that might come from your particular type of actual like minion demon and things like that But then we also wanted to have the ability for the player running the cabal to be able to actually Customize even a little bit more. So you've got essences and you've got relics. So an essence is basically from When an when an older soul sometimes gets captured and it's a soul that's been rebooted a bunch of times And it's done a lot of things and it's got a lot of experiences it will have To some degree special abilities. So an essence is something that you can get and then you can put it onto any one of your any one of your particular Members of your cabal But then it's stuck there. So it's basically you know, you decide who gets it or whatever and The leaders have their own kind of essences when you're building leaders and they also their own kind of relics But later on down the road You can also have essences and relics and stuff like that. But essences stick once it's on a thing It's on a thing. Yeah, once they've integrated that essence into their own Mishmash of souls that's in them. That's it. It's in the soup now It's in the demon soup and it ain't coming back out. Exactly Whereas relics can be traded in between games So even leader relics like you can give a leader relic to You know some other person in your cabal if you decided that you found this other thing That's going to synergize very well with your leader and you're going to swap things out um And so yeah, and there's also a limit depending on the the type of creature depending on the the class Whether you've got a leader devout or a minion. I mean like minions can just basically carry one relic in one essence Pretty much everybody can just pretty much carry one relic Although I think there's a isn't an ability to carry more than one Uh, there is there is a title that allows you to carry two if you earn it But you have to get a whole you have to be a hoarder Effectively you got to get the relic and a bunch of essences and then effectively you unlock the ability to carry a second relic around Yes, yeah, so a leader can carry up to Three essences. Yeah. Yeah, and then the devout can do two and minions can do one So so it it gives you the ability To customize and even to some degree customize in between games because you can swap those relics around again You can't swap around the essences, but you can swap around the relics So I mean it's it's nice to have that kind of customization in between the games I think or you know, you're playing in a campaign system. Yep Uh, so brandon had some questions brandon the screaming shield. Oh boy Never have I written a more controversial thing than the screaming shield So i'm just going to flip the page here brandon and answer your question by showing that these screaming shields rules were clarified Because in in in my mind how other people read that were not the same things happens a lot Yeah, uh multiple people read it. None of us caught it. It happens sometimes Um But the so the the screaming shield here is what it says this demon may never be hit on anything lower than a three plus Perens they may not be hit on two close perens The the essence of the screaming shield is pretty straightforward If you're fighting a demon that has a higher combat score than you where which would normally allow them to hit on twos They must still hit on threes Now the way it was originally worded was it was you could never hit on Better than a three and a tree in this context would be better than a three on a hit roll is a two Right, but that's a confusing way to word that I accept that now Uh, that was a case of my brain working very differently than other people than the people who are readers Great catch. We reworded. It's clear now in the pdf uh So oh brandon s says like soul drinker says if this demon Attacks lays an enemy demon the leader heals one damage. Um, yeah, so it's still them these they say um, so like soul drinker saying um You know like leader on it or something, right? It doesn't matter It's yeah, that's just because the leader took it initially if they handed to someone else then insert Demon name there, right? They had that the demon who slayed would heal the life Uh, and then Yeah, so there you go. That's the answer to that one Uh, very good Uh, great question. Okay To do to do So then uh, all the different devouts are here We're not going to tarry too long on them because we've talked quite a bit about them But they're all they all have unique roles the the fun of the devout in my mind is that They get to really play a special role Most of them have some kind of score that they track That's sort of building throughout the game triggering with something around their philosophy Um, so for example the madness demon who is the the demon of the demented Uh, the um He has a uh, he starts the battle with a disorder score of zero Every time during the game any combat role includes triple ones It must be a triple quadruple's etc. Do not count the disorder score increases by one The madness demon may add the disorder score to their combat ability when making combat defense roles So thankfully the more disordered everything becomes as represented by these triple ones The harder it is to get rid of the madness demon right the more empowered they are That's sweet. Love that Yeah, I really liked playing on the triples thing in in uh In the the demented philosophy, which is was a lot of fun because triples were just a neat mathematically interesting chance to happen on all these roles Right And so it's actually interesting that there's a there's a lot of several different things within the the demented that trigger on triples So you're always looking for trips when you're playing the demented Nice. So there you go Uh, David, I think I answered your question already because I went over the streaming shield But in case I didn't you can you can just just say and I'll I'll flip back and we can re-answer it So yeah, that's kind of how that stuff works And then the devouts just like every other demon do have an evolution as well and on their experience table They will evolve and gain bonuses. So there you go Okay. Yeah, man throw them in Brandon. This is great. I like you got you got good questions here So I'm happy to answer them um The uh, what's your what what is your demented pick adam? For sorry your demented pig. I'm sorry. What's your devout pick too many too many words? Um Well, I I guess I wouldn't go to say madness demon because I I I like I like the concept of The the the earthbound as I was talking about from like a story aspect The succubus though, like I'm not I've never come across like a For lack of a better term traditional Succubus model that I've always been that I've been like, yeah, that's that's Like so I'm looking for something right now that's going to be It's going to use more the suck part from the succubus like there's going to be a lot of like I don't know tentacles or suckers or like a big probiscus for You know that kind of something like that Like that's kind of I'm looking for as opposed to the you know The curvy lady with the wings and all that kind of stuff or whatever that you see from like, you know Reaper and places like that and whatever there's nothing wrong with that. It's just not what I'm looking for so um If I can find a model like that that I'm I'm I'm down for you know finishing out that that group But for right now, I think that the madness demon is interesting to me because I like You know counting that madness and and and kind of working down that way. So yeah Yeah I want to give a shout out to adam here But there's like some quotes from some of the devouts that happened on the sides of the page And when we were when we were going through designing these sidebars, right? I said, well, you know, I came up with a couple of quotes and then we were some that was like I don't know, you know, whatever you want and whatever we think and and he kind of just we said Well, we want to do something for the boy demon We don't know what it would be because he's he's like this blank void, right? He's this emptiness So what would be an end? I said, I said, I don't know. I'll think about it and I'll write something So I didn't have anything to do with this. He wrote this completely side unseen. He brought it back to me And it's you know per like brackets sound of a corpse rotting as wind moves along jagged stones And then the unspoken scream devout of the empty Holy crap. That's the best in the world. Like I love that so much Well, yeah I stared at that for many minutes editing this document and decided I I'm not going to touch that Well, because everybody the other ones had like a quote like I said this and then, you know, it was You know, I distributed and I this guy wouldn't, you know, the void demon isn't going to be like, well, you know what I think Like that's not a thing, you know, I mean, so I that just kind of came to me. Yeah, it's great Uh, so a question about the succubus is too charming where she can basically Make another demon fall under her her charms So the question is basically does it activate the demon? And the answer is no because it doesn't say it activates the demon, right? It just says you choose an enemy You may then you may move that demon up to its normal move ability and to make a combat attack against any demon of your choice So the answer is it doesn't say like it activates the demon The enemy doesn't have to you know, use a die or anything like that It's just she basically makes them kind of act out of turn, right? But it's not any it is not activation So it doesn't bump up against the you can only activate someone once around that's why it's written with that very specific language of like do x do y But we didn't use the normal game term like I didn't say she picked someone they now activate Right because if I had said that then a whole bunch of other choices would have cascaded around that um So, you know the point is is that so your your follow-up question was would they still gain the benefit of focused combat if they had went earlier in the round Yes, because focused combat provides a bonus that happened that lasts until that demon activates again Right, but they wouldn't have the benefit of running skirmish because that benefits only that move And it would they wouldn't have the benefit of charge because that is only for the attack made at the end of the combat attack Made at the end of your move So it's actually a very clever play to pick a demon that is in focused combat because then there you're getting a little bonus score Then right um, so yes, and I had somebody asked me recently like if I'm not planning on going anywhere But there's like you're holding an objective Can I still just pick focused combat even though I have no plans to fight? But someone might charge up on me and that that's the answer is yes Like that's the idea absolutely if you're not going anywhere It's a good idea to just say okay Like if you're just holding an objective you want to do focused combat because then if somebody does get to you You can still get the benefit. Yep. Yep exactly uh And then so that then also leading on from that if not do you get to activate a combat style? To charge you get the plus one combat diet. No because again, you don't they're not actually activating Hence you cannot since they're not activating they don't get to choose a combat style She's effectively just you know tapping into their brain. They're kind of just walking over there and then Punching their enemy in the face. They're not using their full their wits aren't about them at that moment right Okay, and then oh on the tally man There's oh, he's I hadn't gotten to the tally man yet. Sorry. Am I just scrolling past him? Oh, yeah, there is tax I scrolled right past him. Sorry. Uh, okay, so the tally man, uh, let's see What is he saying another question uh tax states you gain a soul. Is this a soul die or the currency? You gain one soul die there Where are you referencing here? Did I just when the enemy spends a Soul dice you may roll a die on a four plus you gain one soul dice immediately roll a dice and add it to your play sheet As though you'd slain a demon I don't see Oh, there it is. Okay, uh, if the result is less than equal to the current tax score you gain an additional soul Yeah, got it. Okay. Um, so yes, it's an additional soul die. Sorry. Yeah, I guess I should specify there The idea being I I didn't specify it because it's saying you slain a demon Hence you're getting a soul die, right? And then you roll the die and on top of that you gain one additional So it's referencing back to that thing. Sure. That's a good catch. I probably should have fully typed out Like I should have probably fully clarified But yes, it was meaning you gain an additional soul die since it's adding on top of the one you already gained for slain Yeah, good question Okay Uh, let's see Oh, uh, this is an interesting question. So, um I don't know how to pronounce that I guess maybe I don't know. Uh, I don't know if this sort of question is legal, but it's somewhat sure. It's legal, man Uh, free country, uh, but is someone brand new to miniatures in general? What models were in your imagination in theme when you were making this mini zagnostic game? I mean, I know what my answer is, but adam you want to you want to take that? I mean, I I've got to be honest It was a part of what made me want to also work on a game with demons was because I've really always loved the game's workshop like corn bloodletters I just never had any plans to actually play them in Anything like I know you can play them in in in kill team now like you couldn't initially they weren't in the original release of the book but they are in kill team annual 2019 question mark, I think um And then, you know, I think you can you can play them as well in, um War cry as well So, you know, I could see myself going down that road at some point But I I love the concept of just having a couple of them Maybe, you know, so um, that was part of it is I like that concept But then as I was starting to look like, you know, we don't necessarily this is this is not telling any stories out of school necessarily, but we did reach out to a games workshop to say hey If we use some photos of your miniatures in our game, would that be a problem? And they were like, well technically, you know legally. Yes, and we're like, all right. That's cool. So, um You know and that legally within within what what they look at it as being, you know, whatever That's that's their rules and we so we that's why we didn't put any gw models and you know as images in the game um So because of that I started looking at 3d printer stuff because I've got a good friend with a 3d printer and You know, so I started looking at my mini factory and just typing in demon, which is an awesome place to start and I immediately found a bunch of really really really cool stuff. So, um, you know There are definitely avenues you can go if you want to go a little bit more maybe kind of corpulent and and and Poxy and nurgley You can go Again, like with a different cultures idea of what demons are if there's a if you can find them There's a game from several years ago from coolman. You're not called wrath of kings And there was a faction in that game called I can't think of the name of the faction, but they were very kind of like ony looking kind of like asian On like the house this seer might be right. Anyway, like there's all kinds of options What things you can do, you know along those lines But as far as like I definitely was like, oh, I'm gonna definitely make me some some blood letters And then when I started seeing like a lot of the models and things like that that we end up putting his artwork in the game I was like, oh, you know, these are pretty cool. I gotta get this printed. I gotta get this printed. So, yeah nice It's wild how much that the 3d printing market has exploded I know that I've just started paying attention like over the last month in terrain everything and oh, yeah Wow And just the I mean the the amount of detail like it's so amazing As a modeler To a get a miniature that is built like it's cool and dynamic and stuff like that But it you don't have to put arms on it or nothing like anything And you don't have to fill gaps and you don't have to scrape mold lines Yeah, that is like I would be working on this model and be like I would look be looking for mold lines all the time forgetting that this was never in a mold This was yesterday. This was goop. You know what I mean? And now it's like, yeah, so Yeah, it's it's it's really cool. And again, if you don't have a 3d printer like I don't well I take it back. I have a 3d printer. I have not yet set it up and got it going yet. I just got it recently But you may probably have a friend who does and you might be like, hey You know buy you a pizza or give you some money or whatever the deal is if you print these things for me It's uh, there's a lot of options out there. Yeah I've got these little guys. I used them as ghouls. This is a little 3d print of a ghoul And uh, I I did so funny it hit me actually as I was putting like, you know 40 of these guys together for a huge unit of ghouls. I was just like, wow, this is so wonderful I just take one of them and I glue it to the base And he's done. Yeah This is so much easier You know and like maybe some of the really big prints you've got a couple pieces Right. Yeah. Yeah, I've got one in the basement. Well the the the one I'm working on a twitch right now was One Two three four five maybe max, but he's probably Five inches tall, you know, he's yeah, he's got a giant sword and all that kind of stuff. Yeah Uh, it's yeah, it's so it's really nice Uh, uh, my lead new bank said can a succubus move a demon With charming it without fighting to move it off an objective Yeah, absolutely because you can fight any demon of your choice and that could be none, right? So there you go. Like none is part of that. So yeah, absolutely And it's a great trick right getting him to walk away. So that way you win the objective 100 succubus s potent, but she is also fragile. So you got to be careful with her Uh, let's see Dennis said is there a plan to have different levels of hell other than current factions thinking Dante in the 12 circles Um, yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I don't know fully where the future of this game is going to go We we have some ideas. We've talked about it. I mean Adam and I are going to Continue designing games together. As I mentioned earlier. It was a really fun partnership So we're gonna keep making stuff. We've learned a lot of lessons just from doing this the first time I think we can do even better the the next time and really, you know Makes it makes something really strong and fun and unique. We've been talking about ideas One of the things I'll say is I you know, it would be highly unlikely That the next thing we do would be another rain and hell right or rain and hell too electric boo boo, right? Yeah, um, there's certainly concepts we have for expanding this and maybe those will come about someday Um, but I think there's other concepts. We also want to explore other genres other types of games other settings other themes and There's just it's such a wonderful wide world and you can do so much cool stuff and and as 3d printers Continue to grow and the number of people doing awesome 3d sculpts continues to grow. It just really expands what we can Do and know that there's still miniatures you can get out there Yeah, absolutely. Maybe one day the robot squirrel game will become a reality, you know Well, I don't know. I that's it's a it's a pretty swamped market. Honestly, um Yeah, no, I it's a situation where it was, you know Because it's kind of an indie game and it's a diy game I it the the concept behind those games very frequently is the there's not usually a lot of expansions like the constant ever expanding sort of game system sort of thing is really more of uh And I don't want to sound like a like a like a punk rock guy who's against the man But it's more of a corporate thing Like the concept is that we have to keep cranking this stuff out because every time we sell more books We make more money and it's just easier to kind of keep cranking these things out and adding on and adding on And then you know for lack of a better term Then you're trying to play 40k, but you have to have five books to do it You know that kind of stuff and we but the thing is is that because that you know They're the biggest out there and all that kind of stuff They to some degree have trained people because we had people literally on day one going so what's the first expansion? And we're like that's not like you know what I mean like we're then And uh, that's yeah, so yeah, yeah exactly exactly. So like we we do have where we do want to There is going to be an expansion to some degree, but it's going to be a free pdf and we're looking at making a kind of a solo Game for it as well or solo like an add-on It you won't be able to play the normal game solo particularly because There's so much different Kind of Strategy and and thought that has to go into How a warband Works that there's no way to make a simple ai to make it work But like if you look at the scenario for the beast, there's an ai for that creature So the concept is that we will have a certain number of scenarios that will be in this new kind of update eventually That will be just for solo play So you won't be able to take like a solo play rules and play the third scenario You'll be only able to just play those scenarios, but then at least there will also be solo play involved So yeah and integrated into like a campaign type system. I actually just like we've been adam and i've been talking about it since For actually we started talking about it even before the game launched But I was one of those kind of catching out some ideas It was one of those minimum Viable product sort of situations where like you know when you're looking at the ideas all the possible ideas for any Kind of product you have to draw a line and say If we have to because if you try to do everything you want to do the thing will never release So you have to make a cut off and go this will come later and this will be part of the minimum viable product. Yeah Yep Star dog says how much religious history went into making this game or is it all creative imagination based? Very little because it's not really aligned to any particular religion. Now. I love religious history You know, there's a lot of fun stuff you can do with that But that but I think adam and i are both of a mind that like I don't really like to get tangled in real world stuff where I can imagine real people dying and stuff like, you know, that was somebody's mother or father or son or you know Granddad or something like that. Like I just I tend to like to stay away from that kind of stuff Like I'm not a historical person and things like that. So we very much wanted to make this more just Imagination the idea behind it is is that again like these are Demons in a different dimension and by demons. That's just the term that we've given them I don't know that they necessarily refer to each other as demons and they don't necessarily call the place that they live Hell, you know, but Through their interaction coming through this portal to be able to pop into different places all over earth And kind of drag people back and whatnot and maybe somebody like lived through it Like got back before they were pulled in or they said, you know And that's these stories are what then inspires the things that pop up in Folktales things that pop up in religions in different cultures of the world over and Because of all of this getting worked into it The like I said the people that kind of I don't want to say run the world I'm not talking about like some sort of Illuminati or anything But the people who kind of are you know at the top echelons of things are like they keep hearing these stories about this Going on and they know that something is going on out there and to maybe convince people to be wary of this You work that into you know, maybe potentially your religion or something like that and whatever And so yeah, but these are there's there's there's there's no satan. There's no lucifer There's no like you know people immediately also asked we're like, well, when's the expansion for for angels and we're like, that's not a No, that's yeah, it's it's not that thing. So right I do find it ironic that we ended up accidentally releasing on the same day as the new season of lucifer So that's pretty great. I've never watched that. I've seen trailers Is that a good show? It starts slow, but it's but it's very fun They're a little too cop-premisee like lucifer helps solve crimes and stuff That's still the overwhelming premise, but it gets a lot better once you get into all the oddities of You know heaven and hell in the silver city and his job and stuff like that. It focuses a lot on the characters I love the show totally hooked anyways Anyways, and also smallville superman shows up at one point who's fun Tom wellington like he shows up as superman or Oh Who he is is a reveal in the season He's he actually is a a figure of note, but I so I won't spoil it just in case somebody's actually like I would just imagine somebody's just watching through season three And they're like two episodes away from the reveal and then I spoil and they're like, oh, come on one of the chances Right, I know kathy needs to torture you with mary v's town an extraordinary drama. No, no Watched one episode Like get this off of my television boring Nope All right. No, I'm sure it's a fantastic show. I really I'm really I'm sure it is It had all the makings of one of those like fantastic dramas that I have Zero interest in negative interest in I need dragons or explosions or something in my shows on your sociopathy checklist There's a number of items there. Yeah, by the way, incidentally, I understand why a number of these shows tom is so quiet Because he needs to be otherwise. They're going to be six hour shows If anybody just says that I'm the co-host that says um, yeah a lot. Well, there's a reason folks Well, especially if I'm here too, I mean really All right So uh movement and combat uh the tyler Thank you very much for giving us the sign that we should Continue moving But uh at any rate, uh, you know, there's pretty basic stuff like movement is pretty straightforward As I said you move in inches fly is does what you would think it does it Flies and you can move over models and you can move over terrain and stuff like that Climbing you can move vertically. You just move at half speed. It's pretty straightforward You can ignore terrain that's no higher than an inch or an inch wide when you're moving You just kind of you know, you can imagine your demon just going ha ha And you know getting over the top of it or whatever, right? They have to make that noise though They must you must when you move the demon you must go ha ha. Yeah, that that represents the jump uh Okay, let's see Uh, and then and then that brings us to uh combat Uh, Brandon had a question here on the armor demon A demon may never use an ability when they are not activated unless a special ability Specifically allows them to do so. Yep. Do abilities interacting with defense die Such as the armor demon allow them to use an ability was the intention that you can get caught before the activation No, so yes with the the armor demon that would be like exactly the special ability that's specifically allowing them to do So because it says when x happens Namely they make a combat defense roll Right, you may do y so it's created an exception trigger To that right so then in situation x they can do y so yes You can't get caught before any when they make a combat defense roll. They can simply do the thing every time. Yep Good question That was really that blanket rule is there to make sure that like people aren't trying to Do something like charm people when it's not their turn or whatever right go ahead On the on the climbing I just say your little sentence you must end your movements on a horizontal surface the model will balance on I'm so glad you guys bit the bullet and added that in because that's been endless source of frustration in a west of the last five years Yeah If it if it sits it fits that's my easy rule right like it's just Can I take the model and set it in this place and have it stand there right if this is what's happening Then no the model doesn't go there right. It's that easy Yeah I really think that that cleans up so much Because then you're not you don't have to be like well, wait this model was how far up the wall and Yeah, yeah, I mean that's it's a situation of like I mean and what it's simulating is the fact that you can clamber up a short surface But it's real hard to clamber up a long tall surface You know what I mean Because you're gonna get tired on the way up, you know at the very least whatever You know you had a long slog because you're a demon and you don't have a car, you know or whatever But yeah, so yeah real downside. Yeah They're still working on the on the car technology down there. Uh, all right So let's talk about combat combat's pretty straightforward So we've mentioned the combat score before everybody every demon has a combat score. It is a number and uh, effectively when you activate you choose one of three Combat styles service charge or focused combat. We've mentioned them already a couple times They have certain ways that they modify what you Do and how you fight or how you move Pretty simple. We don't we don't have to worry about that at the moment. We won't go too deep Just they do kind of what you would imagine them to do right like Pretty straightforward The way your combat score works is this you start by taking your combat score And comparing it to your enemies if I'm a six and you're a five I'm greater than your number. Hence my target number becomes two If it's equal to it's on threes if it's less than it's on fours So effectively if you're familiar with the sort of comparative metrics oftentimes in d6 games these end up being three four five Right, so that's like the traditional 40k split Now the reason we didn't use that is because I wanted this game to be about fast brutal combat And by scooting all of those numbers down one you actually Greatly shift the favor you shift it in favor of offense Yep, like mathematically it makes a huge difference So and certain things can obviously move your combat number around So for example, if you charge your combat score increases by one for your attacks made at the end of that movement So if you were combat six and you charge you now combat seven for both the comparative and the number of dice you roll So very potent That kind of thing Certain demons interact with things like charging, right? So for example the spiked the spiky demon he gets to re-roll some number of dice on the charge, which is great Makes him a great charger Makes him not as good if he's just sitting there stuck in Right, he really wants to be on the charge Whereas an armored demon is happy to sit there and just like attrition fight and slog it out, right So on and so forth after the combat attack roll you're gonna like if you need twos Okay, you're gonna roll six dice Everything that's a two is a potential point of damage the opponent then makes a combat defense roll They roll whatever their combat is so if their combat is five as I said in the scenario they roll five dice Every six reduces the damage dealt by one So then that's your math. That's it. So if I rolled six dice to attack got five successes You rolled five defense dice and got lucky and got two sixes. I did three damage There it is. Oh, yeah and it's It's simple, but it's still like it can still be sometimes a little swingy So that there's potential for a benefit, you know, which you which you like. I like it at least I know that very frequently people are like, no, no, no, I don't want any swinginess I don't want any randomness. I'm like, but it's a game and we're supposed to have fun So there's times like you tell the stories down the road about that time that all you needed to do Was just not roll three ones And then you rolled three like I still to I just told the story recently like last weekend Um, I was playing a guy. I think we were playing 40k and I don't even remember what the Circumstances was but all that my opponent had to do was not roll three ones And he rolled three ones and he picked up his dice and he walked out the front of the The game shop and we were just across the street from the river and he just walked across the street He threw his dice in the river So that's become now like amongst that game shop and the people that were kind of there and stuff like that You know, like anytime you roll like some bad dice, you're just and the game shops move There's nowhere near the river anymore. But I'm like those dice are going the river, you know what I mean? And it's just so yeah, like those that kind of aspect to it is I think the interesting part and and and and again To your point Vince as well the whole concept of like because when you were originally like, oh, yeah It'll be like, you know, you know, if you're beating him, it's on twos and if you're this it's threes And that's fours and I'm like That sounds a lot more dangerous than like what you expect with 40k But like how many times you've been playing a game like 40k and you've just got like some guardsmen and some Tau over in the corner and they're just having a slap fight, you know, I mean it goes on for like five rounds Yeah, you want this like part of the original part of the original design document And this is why it's super important if you're going to design a game You have to sit down and put down like bullet points like this is the guiding light everything you do has to fit this And one of them was fast brutal, which means it's a speedy game and also stuff dies I meant to circle back earlier. Yeah, I was curious what was on that initial list of guiding principles So that was one you guys remember what the other was more like the the low number You know, I think originally we were saying five to ten miniatures But then kind of the math worked out to be closer to seven to ten miniatures Um fast brutal combat Do I have the document open now dive it I haven't opened on my computer downstairs I actually because it's like honestly the original like initial design document has been open on my computer downstairs for months and months and months Um, yeah, but yeah, it there was like a bunch of things like like a campaign style play Right had to facilitate campaign play. Yeah, right. So that was like which is important You don't just want to bolt that whole thing on right? You want to make sure the game is designed from the beginning to be able to facilitate that I gotta be honest. I feel like the campaign in Uh in um, king's uh, uh kill team. I feel like that's almost a little bolted on right And it's a good example of when it's when it wasn't designed with that fit to purpose, right? Yeah Started from the principle what we're writing needs to work in a campaign right to ask to be room to grow In ways to advance and stuff like that hence thinking about things like the evolution of demons, right? If we weren't thinking about campaign play, why would we ever bother to write in rules to evolve your demons? Right if this was like if this was a competitive game Where you were just constantly playing like one off so that then the evolution thing wouldn't make any sense. Yeah, absolutely You really felt about reading the document that the campaign part when I got to that part Like wow, there's more depth here than I would necessarily have expected or an initial launch Yeah, that really stood out. Good. I'm glad Yeah, uh The other important mechanic that we just hit upon that's good to talk about is soul dice as we mentioned souls are the Fuel of hell the currency the food the everything They are the the part and parcel the most important thing that everybody wants And whenever a demon is slain by a demon you control and one of your demons within three inches of the slain demon You may harvest soul energy from that slain demon. This is represented in the game by a soul dice Each time you slay a demon friend or foe that is important You can kill your own people and there are reasons in the game to do so You roll a d6 and place the result on your play sheet So you literally like at that moment you gain. Okay. I got a soul dice roll the d6 I came up with the face of a four There's a space on the play sheet where you put that with the four face up And that's real important because then that has effectively three uses The first is you can at any point in time Use the die and replace any role made as part of a combat attack or defense role For you or your enemy with the face value of that die So for example your enemy is coming at you they hit you for three They hit you for two damage. You only have two life left You go nope and you take your one and you replace one of their successes with a one You're like nah, you missed brother Right So you can throw souls at their roles, which is uh real fun The second thing you can do is you can burn off a soul dice to add its face value to the movement of one of your demons Which is really really really important Especially in the late game for getting around the board and claiming those objectives things like that, you know Kind of doing that last minute stuff kind of again It leads to like as the game goes it the game very much has this like building tempo Right whereas it goes you start to it start to roll and roll faster Combat gets joined more demons are dying turns are faster because activation dice are getting sapped out demons are being slain Right the game speeds as it goes And that was very much there there's a term for that in Music and I do not remember what it is, but Allegro, maybe go faster. I don't know somebody who's a composer in the chat. Tell me. Um, anyways And so that is one of the another one of those things that feeds into that Uh, the third thing that you can do is save those soul dice because if you're playing a campaign Those become the money that you use after the game To go buy stuff So you're always in this balance if you're playing in a campaign between burning your resources in the game to win or keeping them after the game to To get more stuff basically Yeah, and we like I like the idea of you know after playing a lot of kill team and To a lesser degree war cry like The I always felt like because there were so many times when I would be playing and I would have You know command dice that I just maybe wouldn't use as much as I should And there were times that I'm like, okay, maybe I even won like I got all the way through this game and won And I still have like four command dice and I'm like I should be able to do something with that And uh, you know, uh, you get some sort of benefit for for being, um Thrifty, I don't know. That doesn't seem like the right term But whatever and uh, and so yeah, so that was kind of I think a cool concept as well with the soul dice as well I like that a lot, but I also like the uh, the not just like oh this becomes another role, but When it happens it becomes a role and now you're looking at it and your opponent's looking at it and they know Yeah, yeah, you're both like they're looking at it. You're looking. Yeah, they they know you have a one So they do something cool. You're like nope, you know, and so that's that's cool too. Yep. Yep Uh, yeah, exactly a just said I like that allowing the use of the soul dice on your opponent's roles Means that rolling low isn't bad. No, exactly like there's basically any face that comes up can have a use Now that might not be the use you want at that moment But it can have a use right so yeah, exactly I appreciate a game that lets everybody have destiny dice on just one faction Absolutely after a fashion Uh getting faster in music is called accelerando. I don't know if that's real, but if it is that's an awesome term I'm going to go ahead and say that that works. I love it Uh, sitan said what is the dice expectation or satan? Sorry, so it was a dice expectation of the game one set of dungeon dice and pack of six dice So it it mentioned at the beginning, but you effectively need 10 d12s and then about the same number of d6s So about 10 d12s and 10 d6s and you're good to go per player Uh terrain, I'll just wrap this up quick because we've talked about it a lot. There are different types of terrain um You know ruins shrines swamps forests pools and crags Each of them has a functional rule that is to say because it is this thing It acts like this, right? So for example a forest, uh Is it swamps? What's that? Is there swamps? Yeah swamps. Yes Oh, I guess I forgot about that because I was thinking because I'm thinking pools is like but I didn't write Yeah, different kinds of liquid. Yeah, the swamp is a larger area terrain space. Yeah, let's do a shrine Right. Okay. So because the shrine is a shrine it has this rule Like this is what it does. Do you make a walk up to it? They can supplicate so on and so forth, right? That's just because it's a functional thing in the world Uh And but at the same time every all your train can also have optional rules So for example the shrine could be empowered or it could be cursed Uh, you know your ruins could be haunted Uh, that kind of stuff that you can choose to use That can make the terrain deadly dangerous for you to walk into it can it can start playing a more active role in the game But if you don't want to use any of that stuff because you're trying to keep it simple Like it's your first game and you're just learning and you've got a lot in your head. Cool Don't use it. No issue. That's why we wrote it. It's optional It lets you take that single piece of terrain that single thing of ruins you've got And get and use it in a lot of different ways, right? Because it can effectively be three different Functional pieces of pieces of terrain. It's just getting getting more use out of less Stuff, right? You don't need to have 50 different pieces of terrain You can have the one thing and it can do a lot of different roles in the game. So Mm-hmm Yeah, so there you go pretty straightforward and again remember the golden rule Uh, if it sits it fits, right? I did mention the earlier situations. I will I will mention this here one of the things that was um that came up in the facebook group that I thought was interesting was someone showed a picture Of like their method demon sitting on a piece of work right terrain Where they had this very high high platform built on the work right terrain and the tie high platform was very small Okay, but it was big enough to fit like just the method and it was so extended In the tower that there was no way for any other demon to get an objective ring or an engagement range of it And the and the method had flown up there with an objective, right? And so the question was well, what happens then right because nobody can get up there and actually fight that guy He just became immune to combat right and that seems pretty crappy Now that is pretty rare because it's I think rare that you're going to have like that literal small of a space I am going to write a more detailed FAQ explanation to that Of like how you would deal with that sort of oddity of terrain Um, you know one of the challenges is that you do like you have to sort of think about your terrain And how you're setting it up because if you create spaces like that You're going to empower flyers right sort of just a general rule the more verticality you pack on the board Even if it's got lots of spaces where other things get up there and fight them So it doesn't have to be the sort of bad scenario that I described, right? Um, just you if you put your if you fill your board full of high, you know, six inch tall terrain Then flyers are innately more powerful, right because they can just easily get up to those spaces And not be engaged which you know Right like that's in that kind of environment. They they are more powerful, right? So think about if that's what you want to do before you sort of choose the terrain you happen to set up on the board Right, but I I'm going to write a little FAQ answer to to kind of chart out Different potential answers to this of like how you handle this because I don't want any like that seems like a really bad play experience So we'll we'll solve that It's it's a bit of a situation of the fact that the game basically has no range combat Which was part of the plan like from the get that's another part of the um Oh, yeah, I think there was the design document. Yeah only melee. Yeah, right And so, you know, so but yeah, you're right It is a situation where if you just get up on a high point and stay up there You're like, hey, you know, but it yeah, you're right It's it's important for you as you're kind of putting your train together to kind of maybe think about that Like I've played games before where, you know, one person's got a Mostly flying army and the other person doesn't and then the board gets built to have a lot of high areas And like the objectives are up high and all these issues and you're like, all right well now some one side's got obviously an advantage and so it's the it's the The responsibility to some degree of the two players to be like, let's try to make this at least a little bit more, you know Fair in some fashions Yeah, I mean the same thing's true in work right right like if you play on an all flat board With no verticality and you play the corvus cabal or whatever. You're like, oh good I just don't get to use any of my special abilities like that's exactly right Exactly. Whereas you're playing like if you're playing with a lot of verticality and you play the night hot warband, you're like, whoa It is game on folks. You all are in big trouble Yeah, yeah So like yeah, that's just kind of one of those oddities because terrain can have an infinite number of permutations Right that that can happen. So yeah Did you guys have any consideration? Reminding of the conversation events that you had with rob about terrain keywords, which of course 40k is incorporated So, you know, maybe a terrain with verticality of a certain size you could make impassable Was there any consideration to something like that? Yeah, I thought about it and it just felt overly complicated for what we were going for here Right like because because we wanted to keep it more simple and directly functional The idea of sort of jacking in a whole keyword system felt like overkill right um Now that concept I think it's valuable the whole concept of impassable in this situation is basically um Brought about by them by the the actual terrain itself Like if you can't find like if it's so bumpy that you can't ever set anybody on it particularly very then that's impassable because you can't Land all right, right, right. Yeah, but in that situation still if you had the distance you could fly over it So I guess it's not impassable. It's just sure it's impassable for most I guess, you know what I mean Yeah But I've always thought it was kind of odd to be like depending unless it's like a scenario where you're fighting in the Minds of Moria and they have those giant columns going all the way up to the ceiling The concept of like this goes all the way up to the sky and you're like, okay, cool. I guess that's you know It's it always seemed kind of like I don't want to say a cop out But it seemed like it's a easy way out a little bit for the scenario, you know Yeah, it makes sense Uh And obviously there's a random terrain table to then kind of facilitate your tables if you want to use But of course you can also just pick, you know, that's that's just there if you want to go that direction And then sort of lastly, we'll just talk of course. There is a campaign system as we've mentioned many times There are six steps to the post campaign play first off you figure out the effects of death and So every demon that is slain you have to roll on this little table for these are all 2d12 tables Which I love 2d12 tables because they are Fantastic mathematical odds like it's so fun. What the it's like It's just a great odd spread to work with to get to pack these these numbers around When you when you create ranges inside of a 2d12 spread. It's a really fun mathematical exercise Um But the basic concept here is pretty straightforward. We wanted to offer some wind for losing There'll be a blog post coming out this above us at some point in the future I talk about sort of um the the sting of victory and the The thrill of defeat We wanted to incorporate some amount of winning for losing and and and you know, uh losing when you win And so, you know, your your demons can have both negative and positive effects from I'm dying I read somebody's battle report and they said like what are their methods rolled evolution the 24 like dropped the two hot 12s that never got slated so pop like after the first game evolved into a greater method, which is very funny Um, so I was like that that's the kind of stuff you want to see happen. That's pretty great Um, once you've done that you can choose to call the week Which is just if there's somebody in your warband who you don't like anymore or has gotten too injured Has become kind of useless you can just Cut them from the roster and you get a refund back of 50 percent of their sole value Uh, then you get to roll on the reward table to see what you got And so there's different kinds of rewards. You can get both relics and essences This is a series of sort of three charts based on what you're rolling on You can also roll additional times sometimes based on the particular scenario Um titles, this is where you can get the title as we mentioned. So these are your achievements And these these are a lot more of like winning for losing. So for example, like unstable steps if you die to terrain Uh, then you can get the title called unstable steps and you'd be like, you know Whatever whatever of the unstable steps and you get to roll twice when making a check for any terrain and select either result Right. Um, you can also do things like you surfer where your non-leader kills your leader And then takes control of the the cabal. So that kind of stuff. So yeah I love these these are brilliant I'm really excited about them. I think the titles are really fun. Like I said, we're going to put out a title title tracker sheet here sometime soon and And so I I just I really love this idea and this this was uh, very much adam You know coming up with this idea and then just you know, both of us just running Just hog wild with it to see what we could do. Yeah The pacifist I like that one. Yes. Anyway, yeah And it was a situation as well just like, you know Initially, I was just like, oh be cool to have like these different names But then I thought about it again, like I said kind of like from like your your xbox achievements and stuff like that and my thought was like Like there are plenty of people out there that love to chase that stuff And I'm like, yeah, that's cool But like does it do anything for you in the game and they're like, well, no, but then you get it I'm like for years I was like, well, there should be some sort of benefit somehow other than just you have it on your thing and uh Yeah, there doesn't seem to be one which is fine But I was like if we make a benefit to this where you get this title that also gives you a special thing It's cool. Um And it's also something you can choose not to take too Like if you did this thing that would trigger that for you someone actually I saw that Either on facebook today or else I saw it over on reddit at one point today But someone was like, but do I have to and then it says well here it says may so that means you don't have to Correct. Yeah, you don't you may decline the title Um, but then you can't take it again later. You cannot take it again in the future You have declined to that title like right if somebody offers to make you an url and you turn it down You're never going to be an url again. You got to go for a duke or something instead. Um So, uh Okay And so Yeah, brandon the answer is so brandon had a question on the beast scenario Which is does each roll of a six count toward the 10 or do you need 10 distinct attacks where at least one six was rolled The second one you need at least 10 distinct attacks where one six was rolled That is how you take control of the beast. So it is he is hard to handle Hey little thing. Let me light your candle because mama. He's hard to handle now. Yes, indeed. All right Uh, and then obviously you gain experience and that can uh do that And then you can your last step is recruiting and expeditions So you're gonna choose to you can choose to recruit demons. You can also choose to go on expeditions which can then benefit your Chance to gain more relics and and essences and stuff like that. You can basically Yeah, you're basically selling or Spending souls right to then maybe get something or get a better chance of something or get something quicker than later and that kind of stuff And yep, you know, I like I like that concept quite a bit too Exactly, it's just it lets it's another use for those souls that you're accruing like because we wanted to make sure that Okay, well, you're eventually gonna hit 10 All right, like that's gonna happen if you play long enough, you're gonna hit 10 models Yeah, yeah, you're gonna hit 10 models. So like okay now. What am I doing with all these souls? Well, so the answer was we you know, we wanted to put in the expedition so that that way because not only was it an interesting Sort of risk reward mechanic to let you go Uh get the potential to do new stuff But also maybe lose something like gambling mechanics like that are generally fun But also it then constantly gave you a way to to continue to grow, right? Okay, uh, and then let lastly. Yes is all the scenarios. There are 10 scenarios in the book I'm not gonna go through all of them. You can see that we list the number of players Most of the scenarios so seven out of 10 are what I would call multiplayer meaning like more than two So They're two to four the beast is actually one to four you can't attempt to solo the beast It is hard. I would not recommend like if you're gonna roll your starting warband out and try to solo the beast So with your first seven guys If you might happen it might you might do it but uh He is in fact a beast So, you know that is to not be be done lightly Hey brandon absolutely more than happy to buddy So happy to answer all these questions Um, but yeah, that's that's kind of that's it. That's the whole thing the rest of this is the various scenarios Um Yeah, real quick. I just want to remind everybody do hit like I'm sure as I said at the top of the show There's gonna be a few more people than normal that hit Dislike or hit their little thumbs down because they're they you know, because we're talking about something different And that's fine. I get it. They maybe they wanted us to talk about a os Don't worry. We will be back to a os and warhammer stuff next week But if you're watching right now and you like rain and hell or you just like us hit like we appreciate it And it's really nice and it helps other people find the show. So I'm trying to go ahead tyler Next week. You're just doing a big old talk about crab nose. Correct. It's all crab nose all the time next Yes, it's the crab no steep dive. Yes He's releasing this weekend. So we had to schedule it up for for crab nose, right? I mean, that's what it is. So, yeah Well, congrats guys. Yeah, it's really been fascinating. We kind of just listening in Yeah, more of the details I mean, I knew a fair amount about it. But yeah, getting a much better feel and hopefully everybody else is for for this game I mean, there's that there's a ton of depth to it and I hadn't personally had a lot of interest in scrimmage games previously But definitely tickle my fancy. I'm going to try to get our local group into it and get some games So I'm getting some games in Yeah, I think that the scrimmage games, you know, it's Well, NGW has discovered this over the last several years. Obviously you've noticed as well But the scrimmage games are can be a great entrance factor for new players because You know back, you know 9th edition or not. Sorry not 9th edition 8th edition like warhammer fantasy, which at the time was maybe around what 7th edition or 6th edition I think of 40k Those were like the two big main ways to get into kind of that, you know the 40k style of wargaming Or the I'm sorry the games workshop style of wargaming And so you either had to build like a, you know, a big fantasy army or a big 40k army and sure you could play like combat patrol and things like that and whatever But it was it's generally what you found and that's why now when you're looking at kill team You're looking at war cry. You're looking at warhammer Underworlds, you know all of these things are things that allow you to get in with a lot less models and a lot less book And a lot less of all that stuff But then they can also be kind of used like, you know, you build a war cry group, you know of this And you're like, well, that's pretty cool. I built a bunch of night haunts that for my war cry That's kind of cool Well, if I had a little bit of this and a little bit of that and a little bit of that I got it myself a hsigmar army and so it's you know, it's the kind of the way it works So because of that skirmish is is popular. We're not trying to like get you to build up and build up until you have a new game It's an army game We're just like we like these kind of I like specifically like these small games because it allows me to do a little bit of this A little bit of that play small games and it's not something you're devoting like all of your hobby time to You're able to switch around between different kind of games a little bit more easily and some people just are like Nope, this is my game because my lane that I stick in and that's great But there's also people out there like like me that are just like I like to be able to kind of hop around and play this for a while till we get bored with it and then play something else You know, yep. Yeah a hundred percent Brandon, I believe Wrath of Kings had a whole crab people faction And maybe that's what kingdoms of coral on was I don't know but I Wrath of Kings had uh house hadros house hadros and they were Aquatic there was definitely some crab folks or there were people that were like maybe looked like a jellyfish But also had like a pinchy crab and so yeah, they were I don't know that there was anyone there was definitely like a giant octopus. It was pretty cool, too Um, yeah, I liked house hadros when I was when I was into that Absolutely, there you go All right. Well, uh adam. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Appreciate it, buddy Like I said, we're gonna look for for more My honest hope with this is that people really enjoy the game Maybe you get a chance to to maybe if you haven't been playing skirmish games like you mentioned Out of this and people find that try out skirmish games and maybe even look at the other stuff on war games Well, there's so many great indie games out there right now. It's really a golden age of all these games There's amazing amazing authors just writing incredibly fun cool unique games solo co-op standard competitive All sorts of really really wonderful stuff adam mentioned a bunch of them earlier in the show I will link them all down below so you can also see those and um And I just think that that I hope there's a chance people to explore something That they maybe they have before to have fun with their friends Especially as we're all hopefully starting to come out of this long a year Great way to get back together. Yeah. Yeah All right Sorry, well Very good. Thank you everyone really appreciate you watching Very very much enjoyed going over this tyler. Thanks again, brother Yeah, buddy. Happy to be here. Yeah, Adam's great to talk with you a little bit. Yeah, absolutely Absolutely before I was just probably a nameless face in the crowds Can't remember me But no man, it's it's nice to down and yeah chat with you a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely Uh keg go for it. We'll we'll see that's what I'll say and uh with that I will say thank you all so much for watching Don't forget to hit that like button if you didn't already subscribe Uh, don't forget we will be back next week covering Uh, I can't even say his real name now covering I was gonna say crap. No, because it's so stuck in there Yes, covering the new broken realms book. I'll keep it simple like that We really appreciate all of you everyone who's interested in the game who shared the game who's playing the game So thank you so much. Share it with your friends. Tell other people about it We will be as I mentioned at the top of the show. We will be Sharing it on socials when the book goes back up for order once it's passed through the approval process So look forward to that coming very soon Do tune into the website regularly for the blog. There's going to be lots of stuff going up there as mentioned Uh, yeah hit like subscribe As always, we'll see you in hell We'll see you next wednesday