 We'll call her 10th regular meeting a comic council order Pat. Would you call her old please Bowman? Berg here, Bonnet Doyle graph Manny Monty mayor moody Perez Rinflaige Stefan van Agren Vanderwill Wongamon Warner Weninger 16 present Cormes present Alderman Grod Your Honor, I will ask for approval of the minutes of the previous council meeting stand approved under discussion Hearing none all hearing none all in favor Opposed motion carried Pledge of Allegiance this evening Render wininger and Veterans are here to lead us in a pledge. You want to grab the mic chair? Chair One I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God Invisible with liberty and justice for all to Thank You gentlemen this evening I can wait with that because the camera is an up here yet Public forum Pat no one this evening We have Police Department with us and the veterans with us and I believe Bob you're going to present the veterans With a check this evening. Could you step up the mic please? I'm Bob Gatovsky from the Sheboygan Police Department. I'm making this presentation on behalf of Sergeant Tim Tarkowski Who could not be here? As a as a direct result of the war on terrorism our country has deployed thousands of our children husband's Wives and loved ones to Afghanistan Iraq and many other locations throughout the world to defend our freedom The VFW has provided telephone cards for our airmen soldiers Sailors marines and Coast Guard men to stay in contact with their families Telephone call is one of the most cherished gifts we can receive from those who serve Sunday April 20th on Sunday April 13th, which was Palm Sunday Sergeant Tim Tarkowski and members of the Sheboygan Police Benevolent Association Decided to assist the VFW with providing Money for telephone service to our servicemen and women through their project uplink a broad fry and Raffle was held at Gussies Northwestern House at South 19th and Union Avenue $5,443 and 31 cents Was raised to be donated to VFW project uplink At this time I'd like to thank first of all Sergeant Tarkowski for taking the initiative to do this as well as other individuals in the community Corporate sponsors businesses who made donations Especially Roger and Ruth Gussie from the Northwestern House who helped or let us use their facility Mike Sweden and Mike Sweden plumbing for use of his facility Mayor James Shram and again all those who so generously gave items and cash donations for the raffle However, I want to take this opportunity to also thank the citizens of Sheboygan our city They came to the event and they chose to make this fundraiser Very very successful Our community has once again shown that it supports those in the armed services and appreciates everything That they do to defend our country and our freedom It's now my sincere honor to provide the VFW with the check and the citizens of our community for $5,443 and 31 cents. This is hard to take Good evening, honorable mayor council and citizen Sheboygan The veterans of form was of Wisconsin like to recognize the Sheboygan Police Department Under the supervision of Sergeant Tarkowski Vfw post auxiliary 9156 and post auxiliary 1230. I have a certificate for 1230 Vfw post which is I'm just going to read one and then we'll give model right okay in recognition of sincere appreciation of your support of the VFW operation Uplink to provide phone cards to the men and women serving on military active military duty around the world as well as hospitalized veterans Your commitment to help support this program has earned you a special recognition for your efforts to assure that the operation Uplink Continues to meet the needs of American heroes, and it's the commander-in-chief Raymond Sisk of the VFW Thank you and congratulations to I have the same Certificate of recognition for the Sheboygan police 11th association And I have the same certificate for the Sheboygan Memorial post 9156 your contribution is greatly appreciated your generous Donation will benefit the operation uplink program that provides calling cards to our men and women who are presently Serving in arms way. We all know where that's at By the way, our son's home. I like to thank the city of Sheboygan All our fine men of the Sheboygan police department and our local veterans a very special. Thank you to the mayor's Administrator Mary Rayer For all the work that she has done to predict us. However, there's one other thing. I'd like to mention To the council tonight and may I want to say thank you the city has Sponsored to Korean commemoration for the Korean War veterans The city has sponsored the troop rally for our veterans and now this All I can say is thank you and God bless you At this time, I would like to have the police the commander of 1230 and 9156 and myself up in front of the mayor's office for a picture Okay, all of them a graph consent agenda Thank you your honor In the consent agenda item 1010 Which is the establishing of debt issuance? I believe that's going to be hold held Do I have to make a motion for that separately or can you just call that? You Then for items 10 1 through 10 11 excluding 10 10 I would move that we accept and adopt all our C's except in file all our O's past the resolution and the substitute of the general ordinance It's been moved in seconded To pass all the RO's except to file all our O's except and adopt all our C's past the resolutions as substitutes of ordinances Under discussion Alderman right flesh Thank you, your honor. I'd like to pull forward 10 9 Okay, and I moved to file 10 9 It's been moved in second to file 10 9 Alderman right flesh under discussion your honor today our city much like many other cities in Wisconsin face a fiscal crisis that has been unmatched in recent history the crisis was not entirely the fault of the cities However, it is towards Madison that we must look for much of the blame In an attempt to put the state's financial house in order and to cover up a lengthy history of financial Mismanagement the politicians there made a few token cuts in the state budget But in order to balance their budget kept the monies that should have properly gone back to the cities through shared revenue We know that amount met the Madison politicians are not serious about dealing with the financial crisis is Wisconsin cities face for if they were they themselves would have swallowed the bitter medicines of state property tax Fee and income tax freezes Instead they tried to pass a local tax freeze so that they could look like they were doing all they could to relieve the burden put on Wisconsin residences when I look at their actions. I must believe otherwise However setting the blame game aside as a city we must now do all we can to relieve the burden on our local taxpayers I am pleased the strategic fiscal planning committee is taking the problem seriously by recommending a limit to a tax-level increase in 2004 to just 2 percent However, I think we can do better. I recommend that until the economy turns around and the jobs are plentiful again We hold the line on taxes and raise the tax levy zero percent We must do this to show our residents that we are listening to their financial concerns in these hard times We did not ask the state to pass the burden of fiscal responsibility to us, but they did we must not raise local taxes by two percent today I believe our residents simply cannot afford it a freeze may be a bitter pill to swallow, but we must swallow it Thank you Okay, is there any discussion on 10 night? Alderman pros between the desk and chair. Thank you, your honor the Resolution that is under discussion now in effect is a resolution that will increase taxes to the residents by 2% According to a new American City Business Journal analysis of taxation data from the US Census Bureau Nowhere in America or the property taxes higher than New York City But Wisconsin put three of its cities in the top of the list Sheboygan ranks number 12 in the United States with high property taxes Can you believe this out of all the communities in the entire United States Sheboygan ranks number 12 This frightening and alarming statistic points out a fundamental problem for Sheboygan Our government spends too much for its size the cost of our government has grown faster in the economy It appears we have created more government Not better government We are on the verge of failing the people of Sheboygan the city of Sheboygan is struggling with severe cash problems And is scrambling for money So what do we do just charge it to the taxpayer, right? Wrong the taxpayers are not a credit card to use indiscriminately I will not vote to increase property taxes by any amount an Increase in taxes is neither fair nor just to the hard-working people of Sheboygan There are countless people out there who are losing their jobs Countless more or having their weekly hours reduced their paychecks are getting smaller Many people stand to lose their jobs their homes their cars and who knows what else and this common council wants to increase Their taxes again Well, they're not gonna do it with my vote, and I hope the other alderman don't vote in favor of it either Alderman Montemire Thank You, mr. Mayor. I Agree with Alderman Renn Fleisch and Alderman Perez Right now all of us in Sheboygan are facing Tightening our belts because we all have a bit less income than we did two years ago Sheboygan as a city has a bit less income than two years ago But our citizens just don't have that extra money at all the hours are cut Jobs are eliminated and I hate to say At home. We're living a bit shabbier Maybe as a city for a couple of years We have to live a bit shabbier because the money isn't around. Thank you Alderman Winninger Thank you, your honor. I would like to pull forward to 10 11 hang on Ingrid we still we have to vote on 10 9 first and you can okay Okay, is there any other Alderman Doyle on 10 9? Yeah, okay? I was on the finance committee, and I did support the 2% Sort of as a compromise, but in the past week I've been deluged with calls from elderly people especially saying we just can't afford this and so I think that Respecting the wishes of the citizenry of Sheboygan to control taxes. I think I'll support this Thank you. Alderman Warner. I Thank you. I guess when I first heard about this resolution. I had my doubts We have had some pretty tight budget years since I've been on the council But we all pretty much knew that this year was shaping up to be one of the worst and Not necessarily because of something we as a council did We all know the state has gotten itself into a really tight jam And in my opinion, they are at least or at least some of them are trying to lay the blame on local government What I just like the most about the budget mess The state is trying to lay at our doorstep is that they think the money they take from us and redistribute as they see fit Is their money? Well, it isn't theirs. It's ours. It belongs to us To our city and to our citizens enough said on that however This resolution to hold the tax levy increased to 2% is a good idea a Good place to start We've never set a limit that low that I can remember on this council And I think it's a good place to start that does not mean we're going to raise it 2% that means the limit is 2% The funny thing is that at 2% our funds only increased by 372 thousand dollars Think about that 2% of art of the tax levy for the city of sheboy when you look at your property tax bill The city of sheboygan is approximately one third of that property tax bill and by raising taxes 2% That's 372 thousand dollars more of the city will get we have to pay more for gas and electric and all the Utilities just like everyone else And if you think about it that's seven dollars and forty four cents per resident That's a lot of money to many people and it may be too much And it also is what is required to give us the means we need to move forward What I find disturbing is that when the state cut our shared revenue by over eight hundred and twenty five thousand dollars We received over sixteen dollars and fifty cents less per person return to the city of sheboygan of our own money Money we send to Madison every single working hour of every day And I can guarantee you and I said that I send a lot more than sixteen dollars and fifty cents to Madison every year And I like to know where that money is Every single payday look at your state income tax reduction deductions every time you purchase taxable items count up the nickels Try to pass less than fifty dollars or pay less than fifty dollars to have your car registered in the state of Wisconsin Yet they blame the property tax the primary funding device for local services go figure $7 and forty four cents a year per person at the max if we pass this resolution And back to this resolution. We have a lot to talk about in the next two months And as in the past we will do what we have to do Right now passing this resolution is the right thing to do Besides we can always change this and if we must I am sure we will And when that time gets here, we'll know Think we should Not file this. I think we should pass the resolution I think it's something that we have to do and it's not because we want to Because we have to Alderman Graw Thank you, your honor. I Will agree with Alderman Warner here But just to let the rest of the council know about this document. We discussed this in In finance and all the finance committee members there unanimously approve this This sets up for each department as well as for the library and as well as for the transit a Minimum No, it's probably a maximum that they can they can even think about going to if they really really need it And that's got to be proof because this gives them a tool that they can use when they're setting their budget So that they know okay, the the the city says okay We're going to try and give you 2% and they aren't even going to get each department is not going to get 2% What's going to happen is 1.1% of this 2% tax levy would be for debt service requirements that we need so 0.9% is left For each department to raise their budgets if you'll remember the council throughout the the past year has granted 3% or more raises to all employees. We just recently hired. I believe it was six more. We have a Document in tonight to hire another employee now If you don't want to go with tax levy and say it's got to stay at zero Then you're going to look at the the last thing the mayor wants to do and that's me also I don't want to lay anybody off, but that's what we're heading for if we keep on Saying well, we're not going to raise taxes. We're not going to do this We're not going to do that we're looking at layoffs and There were some preliminary figures issued Several months ago that said if everything holds as it is we could be talking up to 50 people or more But we're hoping not to do that. That's why suggestions have come down such as a reduction in Work hours and and things that we're looking for each and every department to do We're looking for each and every department head as well as Employees from the various bargaining groups as well as this council to come up with ideas that we can increase our revenue or where we can Reduce services if necessary and cut expenditures But this is just a tool that's going to help our departments come up with some of these ideas And that's why I think we should put it upon its passage or if you're not going to put this 2% in at least come up with a a Different numbers so that we do have a starting point if it's zero it's zero and then that's what we'll live with But I don't think we should just file this and us we have something to replace Hello and Stefan. Thank you Originally in my comments were on 10th 6th, but obviously they've Combined because that was a petition on the top property tax freeze And I think it's a wonderful gimmick, you know the property tax freeze, but what does it really mean? You know, I applaud Miss Sorenson went door-to-door and asked people if they wanted a tax freeze I mean, I can't imagine anybody coming to your door and asking you want a tax freeze You're gonna say no, I want more taxes nobody's gonna say that that's like knocking on your door and saying you want $5,000 You're gonna say yes A few weeks ago. I was in the mayor's office right during the hub of this whole tax freeze in Madison And he got a letter from the Wisconsin. I think it was the city's group But it could have been the county's group explaining how this tax freeze in Madison was going to devastate the TIF programs So immediately he called our senator liepam. Oh, no, no senator like that said we never discussed that there was never our intention He called senator Panzer. No, we never discussed it. That's not included and Apparently it was a glitch and some people thought it was in the bill some people thought it wasn't and my only comment was If our full-time senators don't know what's in the bill How are the citizens supposed to know a property tax freeze? You know, we could pass zero tonight and then next later on tonight We start a storm water fee and all of a sudden what we're not raising your property taxes But there's a million dollars in storm water fee I mean, you've got to look at the whole package when you're doing budgets fees taxes and then see it like Alderman Grostin What do we have at the end? You know, maybe it's gonna be two. Maybe it's gonna be zero Maybe it's gonna be you know one who knows As many of you know I served on the county board in the previous life And one of the greatest comments I ever heard when we were talking about taxation Came from current Assemblyman Van Akron when he was on his two-year vacation and served on the county board with me One night we were talking about taxes and he said, you know cut taxes isn't hard. We'll just follow the middle of the road Because that's what taxes is it's all about services and I've heard people and people and people stop me and say Cut taxes. I want a property tax freezing and I go back and say, okay, what are we doing that? What are we spending money on that? You don't like I Would guess Miss Sorens could walk around her neighborhood and instead of saying you want a property tax freeze knock on the door and say What should we get rid of and you might hit an elderly area and they might say well, you know, gee We don't need all this money in schools because we're not in schools anymore. We don't need all this money here I'm not worried about this and the next five might say what are you kidding me? Don't cut those buses because the older people and the poor people and the younger people are the ones who use the Buses and the next group might be in an area where there's no crime and they might say cut the police We don't care. That's what I want to hear. I want to hear from constituents. What services are we providing that? We don't need and I'm not hearing that you I people call me and I get them into that conversation and Very rarely do they have an idea of something we're doing that we shouldn't be doing You know, they might have an idea here and an idea here, but it's never a consensus They all want to cut property taxes. They're all they're all concerned about that as I'm sure everybody in this council Wants to have the lowest property tax rate we can But at what price, you know, do we want to be like the southern states and have no services? I mean, that's fine if we want to do that, but I think we need to hear that from their citizens We're continuously ranked as a high taxation state and high taxation city by some people But on the other hand, we're always one of the favorite places to live best places to raise a family Why is that? It's because of our services I'm confident that our leaders are Working people and our union leaders and our management leaders They'll work together if they've got a sacrifice or don't sacrifice and we've got a sacrifice. We should sacrifice You know, we're asking people to take a cut in hours Maybe cut and pay and that's their full-time job. They're livelihood. I don't think any of us. This isn't our full-time job So maybe we should look at it look at ourselves once and say hey, what can we put in this scenario here? We're asking others to take a cut. Maybe we should take a cut And I think we also need to do better job of telling the citizens, you know, they want property tax relief They should know what we're thinking about cutting. We sat here the other night and had a riveting presentation from the police department telling us that it's really about community groups getting together to work on different projects and yet what's in our Suggested list of cuts, maybe liaison officer school guards Community policing programs dare officers. I'm not saying they're gonna get cut, but they're on the list. We're thinking about it and That's fine. Maybe we you know, we have to look at those options and that's okay But I look back at the one officer and a DPW person I think in the police officer who mentioned plowing the streets different to save money I didn't get one person that said oh, yeah, I want property tax relief. Let's follow the streets different Everyone said we don't want the streets bought different Now I'm sure they knew there was property tax savings there But not one person came forward and said yeah, you can call the streets different if we can save money So I think it's a two, you know, it's a two-edged sword We need to hear from the people who want property tax relief, but we want to know how they perceive it You know, it's easy to say cut people like there's a zillion people extra right around the city hall We've been cutting and cutting and cutting for 20 years There's a point where you know, you can't just cut and nobody notices it anymore And that's fine if they don't want the services. I'm all for that all we've got to see you know Some people say privatization. I think the disaster with orange cross 23% raise in six months. We've seen that once it's gone you have no control over it We could privatize the entire, you know garbage collection system And then we have no control over it. We can make people some people say let's drop off our Refuge down at the headquarters great job for me. That'd be my 16 year old kids job every day every time you go take care of that garbage But the elderly obviously couldn't do that Majority of the people couldn't do that. You've got to look at the equality of sacrifice. What's best for all the people? I think too many people go into this and say gee, I don't have kids at school anymore. Let's forget those schools I live in a good area. I don't have to worry about drugs and police. Let's not we don't need all those police officers running around. I Think you need to look at the city as a whole and the services we provide and what's needed and what's not And I thank you for your time Okay, Pat. Do we have a roll call, please? And I and I and I will be to file the resolution and the IRC Berg Bonet Doyle Groth Manny I Monty Mayor Moody Perez I Rindvallige Stefan no, then Akron. No, Vanderweal Wongamang warner Wenninger bowman eight eyes eight nose No, okay. Now you have to have another Oh Roll call on whether you want to pass that's Alderman prez. Thank you Could someone please explain to the public there? What exactly happened here? You're not going to file documents now. You still have a motion on the floor for passage. Okay Hi, there was a tie or the mayor cast a deciding vote so so it's eight to nine I'm sorry. I didn't assume. Okay, Alderman graph We have a motion have that motion on the floor. Yeah So if there's no you can discuss it. Okay. If there's no other discussion, we'll vote on it. No, just this one tonight Okay, Pat called her again Now and I would be for passage Bonnet I Doyle graph I Manny Monty Mayor Moody Perez Rindvallige Stefan then Akron Vanderweal Wongerman Warner Winninger Bowman Berg Eight to eight nine So that's a nine eyes eight nose All right now the rest of consent agenda. Is there any other discussion? All the money here Thank you, your honor. I would like to pull ten eleven stormwater you Sophie. I received numerous calls from constituents And I would like for Tom Houlton the public works director to explain to them What the need is for the use of fee and also the benefits the user fee The user fee is based on an equivalent runoff unit, which is 2,250 square feet it's an average of a residential property Currently right now the residential property contributes about 70 percent towards the runoff to the stormwater system and Or I'm sorry contributing dollar wise 70 percent and runoff wise contribute 56 percent Where business and industry contribute more and pay less? this fairly spreads out the cost of Maintaining the system which it's about 1.3 1.4 million dollars for oh for and at Right now just to pay for the operations of the system about two dollars and sixty five cents a month Would fund the system per ERU? Know your commercial properties will have to go out and measure the square footage than previous areas your Manufactured housing groups they would be one ERU a duplex or a three family would be point seven ERUs for each unit anything beyond that Four families largely we have to go out and measure Or offer aerials the amount of impervious area of rooftops sidewalks pavements And you know we've had discussion we have discussion more on Thursday If we want to add to that fee as part of our capital for every dollar Per year you a month raises about five hundred thousand dollars a year which could go towards Projects such as 17th and Ashland 12th and Parkwood Those are the big projects. They're no five million dollar project at 17th National right now. We're looking at okay Okay Only many Thank you your honor In principle, I think it has a lot to say for it in Practice I would like to have public hearings to further educate myself as well as other older people and to educate The population about what's really involved. So I would vote no this evening But I would rather have this tabled and come back at a later date to consider it Alderman present Thank you, your honor. I agree with Alderman Manny. I think this is an instance where a Lot of community input is warranted. This is an issue that I have received Many calls on and not one has been in favor of it It's also an issue that came before this council But very few members that aren't here. They weren't here then and this council voted it down because This council believed it was a tax and additional tax on the constituents on the people of Sheboygan I Don't know what has magically occurred here that is not it is viewed no longer as a tax if that's going to be the case at any rate, I think that the matter warrants a community input and That respect I would move to hold actually I would move to refer it back to committee so that committee can make take the proper steps to hold a public hearing We're just going to refer back to committee under discussion We'll do this one separately could I have a roll call on that after another discussion on is there any other discussion on this one? This came from finance and public works. What committee do you want referred to? public works Alderman Ryan flesh on this document. Yes It did come up through public works committee and they are open to the public However, it was really wasn't announced the general public that a creation of a new utility Something that hasn't been done. I'm sure in years here in town is about to take place I would agree with both Elvin Perez and Elvin Manny that we really need to allow for more public input When we signed the agreement with the Blue Harbor project very important and critical issue to the city We allowed for public input. I like to see the same happen in this as well another discussion Okay, roll call, please and it's a referral back to public works and I is for referral Doyle Yes graph Manny Monday mayor moody Perez Rindflige Stefan Ben Akron Vanderwheel Wongamon Warner Winniger Baumann Berg Winnie Ten eyes six nose. Okay, so it gets referred to public works Before we move on I just want to clarify one thing Back on the last two votes ago where I voted to break the tie. I Think Alderman Stefan clarified that Alderman run flesh brought it up dead attacks freeze. It is a good gimmick But if you look at the state what they were putting on was caps It was not a tax freeze at the 2% that we are capping our tax Our taxes In the city of Sheboygan is less than what we probably could have went with the state budget on the caps So we are doing a better job at holding our taxes down Than what the state was allowing us to And I think we're doing a darn good job in the city of Sheboygan by holding our taxes though And that is one reason I voted yes to move ahead And if you want to kill the city and got all the departments by a zero budget with no increases That's just what you're doing because you're not going to have any money for operations Just to clarify that Okay Alderman Doyle Thank you your honor. This is just general comments on the consent agenda If you look at the the recent Sheboygan press Two of them on saturday august 16th that said Storm fee votes set for monday Here on this one this was a sunday It says city may limit property tax hikes and so on I think that it's important that we start communicating better with the public than we're doing presently because I'm constantly amazed at how many people tell me that they watch the cable television things of the council now According to the consent agenda Both of these items were in the consent agenda, which means that if no one had pulled them forward They would have been voted on What I would call anonymously if if the public were listening to this council session And someone said I want to listen in and see what they do on this storm water thing If we hadn't called this forward the public wouldn't have had a clue They could have watched this whole meeting and not known whether we had voted on storm water fee They could have watched this whole meeting and not known whether we had voted on the property tax increase or not I don't know what the state law Says on consent agendas. I know that we're doing it legally because we do everything legally But i'm concerned because to me the the obvious in terms of a consent agenda is to speed up the agenda By putting trivial items in the consent agenda And keeping important items in the part where the voting is to go on so the way I see the world 10 9 on establishing limits for the tax levy 10 10 Establishing a debt issuance policy in 10 11 Shouldn't have been included in the consent agenda that should be letters from sally and joe saying we don't like the service We're getting and stuff like that. So in the future I would like to see trivial items in the consent agenda And major policy things In the regular agenda. I would also ask for one more thing Whenever alderman warner from ppns Has an important issue From ppns. He gives a three or four sentence explanation To the council which aids the viewing audience because then they know What the council is voting on I would ask whoever is putting forth this important item Should do the same thing that alderman warner does and give a three to four sentence explanation So the viewing audience knows what's going on because people I had two people that say It looks to me like the city's trying to sneak this through the consent agenda and so on So by doing it that way gate, we give the appearance that we're sort of Sneaking things past the public and we don't want to do that. Thank you Pat would you like to respond? I guess I'm the sneak I'm the one who sets the consent agenda If no one tells me what to do with a document And I think it's routine. I don't know if there's going to be discussion I am not a voter of these documents. I am not privy to the information That is amongst the older persons on this So if no one tells me not to put it on the consent agenda, that's where it goes There's a couple of things if I hear Scuttle, but that I think there's going to be discussion I'll keep it off the consent agenda if I don't hear anything. That's where it goes unless I am told So blame me because I'm the one who sets the Consent agenda. I do not try to sneak anything through like I say I have no vote I have no yet. No say so one way or the other. I'm just doing my job Alderman preser thank you your honor pat you're no sneak I think all of us are fully aware of that and we do appreciate the work that you do and the initiative that you take I think what alderman doil was referring to is that if somebody a chair perhaps or perhaps even your honor Is aware that they may become a controversial or an issue that that will Will call forth some good discussion that this should somebody should say let's put it on Another order of business other than the consent agenda question. I have Who is going to do that? Do we first come for a serve or do we Account the chairs to do it a chair a chair share or the department head that is in charge With that department that the chair is very good. Thank you Alderman Warner before I call on you I was going to ask you a question Anyway, what does stormwater management going back to public works? Obviously most of the alderman don't attend all the meetings A lot of you can attend all the committee meetings Just a question. Would that be better to go to the committee of all Where we're all here That wouldn't be a bad idea your honor. I think we can discuss it to explain it to the public and get something out there I'd be fine with that. I think that We talk about issues like this as an alderman Alder person When I get my agenda, I look at everything The consent agenda part the other part I don't care where the document is if it's something that I want to talk about I'm going to pull that baby out of there And try to talk about it. I don't think it really matters too much Whether it's on the consent agenda or the other one you could try to slip something through on the consent agenda But I tell you I mark everything from and you can look at my paper here Marks on there for every document I highlight the ones that I I think are going to be discussion on and I prepare for them And I do that with the whole agenda the consent agenda to me is just part of the agenda Obviously, I'm not going to talk about Some issues where it was a communication that has no bearing on meeting or any of the larger issues But I don't see that as a real problem myself I think it was designed probably with the intent as Alderman Doyle stated for some of the less less important items or controversial items But I think that's the way you have to look at it and you have to go to the meetings The stormwater issue has been in the press numerous times Been talking about it for probably two months It's been out there many times the press has done a good job on that as far as I'm concerned It's been on radio stations. It's been on talk shows on the radio. I've heard them discuss it on there So say just kind of dropped on the on the street is a little bit In my mind incorrect. Thank you Alderman Doyle Thank you your honor Pat needless to say I didn't intend to uh Install you in any way And but I don't approve of having the the different people Pinpoint items. I think that has to be a structured task and I don't I agree with alderman warner that the two agendas are the same Consent agenda if you don't definitely don't want important items on there the president of the council That should be his responsibility to work with the city clerk to determine which items are on the consent agenda And which aren't no he never sees my agenda. I do the agenda on Thursdays That's not to his job His work Back to my previous question. I believe you made the motion to go to public works alderman pres Do you have a problem with going to committee of the whole? Then then ask for a reconsideration Exactly in here Stormwater fee hold them in your own flesh. I'll also change my second as long as the Three the whole meeting that is referred to allows the public to have a voice and to speak at that time That's why I'm asking so they come up here and have that Steve Steve all in favor Post motion care I would move I would move that we refer back to To the committee of the whole the stormwater fee plan Move it in second under discussion hearing none all in favor I posed motion carry Alderman warner if you could set that up asap and give it at least give a week's notice So it gets out in the press and on the radio that people know when the meeting's coming up But we have to move on this Thank you Okay after Alderman warner I'm looking at next week monday looks like a opportune time. I don't believe we have a council meeting Or anything else going on that night. So I would suggest that We have a committee of the whole meeting next monday night, which would be the 25th of august at Six p.m Most people should be off of work by then and how about seven Seven we can do seven give the people enough time get home and eat and stuff if they work though fives and have it televised on tv Eight, so right viewing public at home can say it Thank you Alderman moody We make sure that meeting is televised. Yes. Thank you Okay, if there's no other discussion with consent agenda shortest consent agenda, but a lot of discussion, but that's good Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that That would you call it all? graph mani monday mayor moody Perez rinflage stefan benachron vander wheel wongerman warner wenninger bowman burr boney Doyle 16 eyes Motion carried 10 12 We just still didn't really say 10 10 It's gonna lie 10 10. Excuse me. 10 10 is lying over 10 12 to be referred 10 13 whole for 10 20 10 14 through 10 18 to be referred 10 19 Resolution by alderman wongerman wininger and prez authorizing director of city development to fill the position of housing environmental inspection and building inspection department Alderman wongerman Thank you your honor. I'd Like to amend that resolution if you can. Okay. No make a motion to put the resolution plans passage first place Okay, uh resolution to uh put the document upon this passage Okay, move the second to put the document on this passage gender discussion Alderman wongerman Uh, originally we had asked that this position be held for six One month I'd like to amend that to uh, January one It's moving to second that position be not filled until January one under discussion alderman van der wheel Thank you, your honor um, I'd be against holding that to January one because I feel the position With that department pays for itself and uh to explain that I'd ask pilot enders to uh, give us some numbers I explained before salaries and grievances at that Department the building inspection department comes pretty close to paying for themselves and we're looking at some Cost reallocation Between building inspection and wastewater and then also The council approved a weights and measures fee So what's anticipated in revenue in 2004 and their anticipated budget? Those two should come pretty close to matching So in essence they do pay for themselves Alderman press Alderman press you had a question. Yes. Thank you, your honor. I also would oppose the Emotion or the amendment to hold it off until January This discussion we we've had several occasions This is a position as paulette mentioned that pays for itself No one said anything about Having financed wait till January to fill a position or for two of the other departments that I remember This is a position that has been that has been vacant for I don't even remember how long But the work continues to be there and it's building up It's a situation where it's not a matter of whether the people Want to do it or not. It's a matter of they can't do it. They can't physically be at all these places at the same time It's a position that's critical to the community. It involves one with health It involves one that generates revenue for this For the city and in particular the department. So I would hope that this council Boats no against the amendment and approves the resolution As presented. Thank you Alderman van Akron Dear honor, I wasn't at that meeting when they held that But I talked to paulette tonight And she says it would take her at least till january to get a person aboard So I see no reason why it cannot be held to to january because she's the head of that department Correct I did talk to larry hill blink tonight the lead inspector and we talked about filling that position And what I did say was if we had a 30 day wait By the time that the 30 day wait passes from tonight And we advertise and we go through the hiring process more than likely it would be pretty close to the end of the year Before we get that position filled And that was with the 30 day wait Alderman prese thank you, honor along those lines. We don't need to amend it to To wait until january. I think the process itself will take care of it Why don't we just vote down the amendment and pass it as originally introduced? Oh for one thing alderman prese I also spoke to paulette and in that agreement rich knows this too that a reorganization plan has become And before this council before I pass any of those positions and I told rich that too So before I agreed to that and I think in a document it says they have to pass that pass me too I want to see reorganization plan before we hire people in the city Now paulette brings something in before the first of the year and shows that that's comfortable But I do not see that happening before the first year until she gets the budget done So I would like to see it not fill before the first year or if they come forward with reorganization plans Talking about laying people off and filling positions When you may have to lay someone off to fill this position I want to see that plan before we do that Alderman orner No, thank you. They are right that building inspection does in many ways pay a lot of its cost of providing service But you know what? We need police officers and what did we do there? We authorize the positions in the police department to be filled on january 1st of 2004 why because of our budget concerns I think we should do the same with this position Sure, it may not take Uh, it may take tell january 1st, but it may not I think that any dollar we can save in this city is something we need to do Up until we find out what's happening in madison I support the hiring of another building inspector and I always have Especially a housing and environmental inspector such as we are looking at here The committee is correct in recognizing that need for a person and that part I support I cannot however support filling the position before the first of the year and I think it should say that in the document If other departments must wait until 1104 then social this one again. We just need to need this position. We just don't need it until january 1st of 04 Thank you. Thank you. Alderman vander wheel. Thank you. Excuse me Thank you, your honor. Um I guess taking the consideration with your organization that we're better off Way into see if there's going to be layoffs before we do anything like that So I will support the amendment Thank you all of them Just just one short comment on that. We're going to have to make a lot of difficult decisions this year This is only one of the three one of the many that we're going to look at and there are going to be people who have long faces, of course And uh for us to start comparing who's more important a building inspector or a police officer or a fireman or a policeman or You know, this is a real quagmire. We don't want to get into that, but uh We've been holding off hiring police officers We've been holding off hiring people all over the place every department in the city has a lot of openings in it And it's it's only going to get worse The public wants lower taxes. We're trying to give it to them they also must realize that If they pay for hot dogs, they're not going to get lobster tail, you know, this is just the way the situation is going to be Uh, you know, you can't walk into the american club and pay for a hot dog Expect a waiter to bring you a lobster tail It just doesn't work that way If we're going to cut taxes then a lot of things are going to be cut jobs are going to be undone That's just the way it's going to work And uh, it's all part of our very tough decision-making process And that's why I introduced the uh amendment. Thank you Pat, would you call the roll on amendment please? Manny Montemer Moody Perez Rindflige Stefan Van Akron Vanderbilt Longerman Warner Weninger Bowman Berg Bonet Doyle Graf 15 eyes one no Motion carries. Okay alderman longman Thank you, your honor. I make a motion then that we pass the amended document Put the amended document upon his passage. It's been moved in a second. We put the amended document on his passage under discussion Alderman graf, excuse me. Thank you, your honor. I just want to applaud this council for stepping up to the plate and taking a step towards fiscal responsibility which we're going to need many of these in the future It can take a voice vote if you want. Okay, we'll take a voice vote for All in favor All's Motion carried Alderman Bonet Just a side comment on that. I find it very interesting the people who are yelling for Tax freeze in the city are the same ones who are yelling to hire people right now Thank you Okay 1020 by alderman van Akron Perez Manny Longerman and Weninger accepting the reopening agreement re-opener agreement with For the 2003 and the collective bargaining agreement for 2004 with local 5011 union Of professional city employees. Alderman van Akron Thank you, your honor. I move that we put 1013 File 1013 Any suspension? I need a suspension Move a second for suspension. Is there any discussion? Hearing none any objections. Excuse me for suspension Hearing none proceed, please And I move that we have the reports on 1013 we file and we pass resolution 1020 which is agreement for 2003 and 4 with local 5011 union of professional city employees It's moved in second that we accept the pass to resolution On the agreement for the city employees under. Is there any discussion? Okay, you're delayed Alderman Doyle Thank you, your honor. I've been getting like I say a lot of feedback lately from citizens and one of the things that they're suggesting is that The city if we're really this short of money that we start looking at a couple years of freezing wages and so on It's sort of the city apparently has the feeling that it should be a guaranteed thing that that people get a raise every year But clearly in a deficit situation like we're in We should start considering that next year We also for those people that don't want to cut back services every time in times of crisis you give a raise That impounds or encumbers say 300,000 400,000 500,000 if you already have a deficit you're coping with that means more layoffs and so on and finally I think to be more realistic about Negotiations, I think it's time that we start Considering that as a total package. What actually is the the cost to the city? Of the of the contract because presently it just appears as three percent, but if The insurance benefits were five or six percent Then the orcelery package you're looking at is really eight or nine percent And in business and industry they're monitoring those kinds of things and I think we have to do that in government also Alderman Doyle if you can make the labor management meeting Thursday afternoon at 1 30 Be benefit if any alderman want to make that Please come up there and listen to what we're we have to say Okay, we have the resolution before us Do another discussion pat. Would you call the roll please? Mounted mayor moody Perez Rindflige Stefan Van Akron Vanderweal Wongamon Warner Weninger Bowman Berg Bonnet Doyle graph Manny 16 eyes Motion carried 10 21 Through 10 22 will be referred 10 23 Will lie over 10 24. I'd like to send a strategic fiscal plan 10 25 Rather lying over I want to send it back committee 10 25 To be referred Matters laid over 9 62 resolution by alderman graff Doyle accepting the liability insurance proposal And continuing membership in the symnic for 2004 through 2006 alderman graff Gonna move that the resolution be put upon its passage Move to second resolution be put upon its passage under discussion Hearing none. Would you call the roll please? moody Perez Grinflige Stefan Van Akron Vanderweal Wongamon Warner Weninger Bowman Berg Bonnet Doyle Graff Manny Monty man 16 eyes Motion carried 953 resolution by alderman bowman warner graff authorizing entering a contract for purchasing purchase of parking utility meters alderman bowman Thank you, your honor. I would move that the resolution be put upon its passage Move to second resolution be put upon this passage under discussion Alderman manny Thank you, your honor just a quick question for my education and perhaps for others A comment or two about the revenue from our parking meters vis-a-vis expenses related to them Thank you. I'm not sure that I heard the question completely, but what this project is is to replace the Mechanical meter insides with electronic meters We currently have about 900 meters out there And this would be updating the last 250 to bring them up to what the rest of the system is What's the revenue flow from the parking meters in the city for a year? I don't have the number off the top of my head. It's substantial as part of the parking utility fund No one knows it on the top of their head. Thank you for your help Alderman rain flesh Perhaps you can explain what the importance of replacing the mechanical with the electronic as well Yes, so also with this time where we're in the process. We've just raised our parking meter fees To 30 cents an hour and this allows us to accomplish out with our mechanical meters and Increase the revenue to offset our expenses and as you know or most of you know that the Parking utility operates independent of the rest of the city's general budget So the parking utility funds stay with the parking utility to help that operate Okay To another discussion, would you call the roll please Perez? I'm sorry I Can't okay. I didn't hear you rain flies He said I I can't hear unless you're answering before I finish our name stephen Then I can van de wilk wongerman Warner weninger Bauman Berg Bonnie Doyle Graf Manny Monty mayor moody 16 eyes motion carry 954 resolution by alderman graf wininger Doyle bonnet transferring appropriations in 2003 budget alderman graf Yeah under that resolution along with resolution 108 which is in regards transfer funds to provide money to establish an estimated revenue and appropriation For a donation received from wigwong mills and van horn for maywood earth ride I would move that those two resolutions be put upon their passage Moving to second at both resolutions be put upon their passage under discussion Hearing none, would you call the roll please? Sure rain flies stephen then akron van der wheel wongerman Warner wininger Bauman Berg Bonnet Doyle Graf Manny Monty mayor moody Perez 16 eyes motion carried 959 general ordinance by alderman warner amending ordinance which vacated that part of south 12th street from the north line of indian avenue north to the south line of the railroad Right of way between blocks 245 and 246 original plat to correct the legal description alderman warner I thank your honor. I make a motion the general ordinance be put upon its passage Move to second ordinance be put upon his passage Under under discussion your honor. You are correct. This is to correct the legal description of the property of something we've already passed so that so that it's the right thing So it's the right thing to do. It's the right thing to do. Okay Pat would you call the roll please stephen then akron van der wheel wongerman Warner wininger Bauman Berg Bonnet Doyle Graf Manny Monty mayor moody Perez rinflies 16 eyes motion carried 960 by alderman van akron wininger pares adding one public works foreman parks to the public works department One public works foreman parks to the public works department parks forestry and cemetery division table of organization Alderman don van akron your honor move the Resolution be put upon its passage Move to second the resolution be put upon this pass ordinance excuse me be put upon this passage under discussion And tom holm did bring in a reorganization plan He showed the cost savings and what we would save to the city by doing this So something I required so I have no problem with that and no one would be laid off by doing that Just no objections another discussion excuse me alderman graff your honor in the future when one of these are coming in and there is a Reorganizational plan or something like you'd like to see that to see the cost comparison sure I'll make sure I'll make sure all the old man get copies of that Just no other discussion pat what you call the roll Dan akron van der wheel wongerman Warner wininger Bauman Berg Bonnet Doyle Graf Manny Montemayor Moody Perez Rindflash Stefan Sixteen eyes Motion teary 1026 will go to public works 1027 will go to public works 1028 through 1033 can be accepted and placed on file alderman orner I thank you in honor. I make a motion to accept and file the reports of officer Moved in seconded except to file the ROs under discussion under discussion I don't have something to say on every single one of them But I do have on a few that I think is important as I've been approached by some people that have a concern with these Especially the one regarding the little red school house On that one that was document 1028 your honor And the sheboygan child care center would like to purchase the little red school house And the public works committee will will be working with them to help make that happen over time And in filing this the process will continue And we'll give them an extension also on agreement and we're giving them a one-year extension on the contract I think that's another document here your honor And we're going to give them one-year extension because you can't raise funds to purchase the building at this time You have to wait until they're out of their Some state regulation that limits the times that they can raise funds. That's right. And that should be coming forward. So That's what this one is on And on 1029 That is For 1927 Arizona Arizona Avenue, which is having a property deed transferred to jan and k Irvore its your honor This is part of an ongoing process the city is involved in in trying to rid itself of unused property And getting it onto the tax rolls And in 1029 and 1030 two more documents on here Uh the proper documents will be drawn up to transfer the parcels and those recipients of these parcels will be paying all title searches and closing costs And the property will be back on the tax rolls Yeah, that's it Okay, there's another discussion all in favor. Oh, excuse me Alderman van Akron. Should we also take 1031 on that one or did we? Yeah, we're going to have a 233. We're going through 33. Okay. I want to question 1031 We're seeing that it's a street right away. That's about a half a block that goes through A piece of land that ends up in the river Well, they're not planning on putting putting the road through there don but we had a similar situation on I believe it was wisconsin avenue on the other side. Correct. We're Typically the city doesn't give up the street rights away because that's public access to the waterway And there's I believe there's some regulations involved in that And I think steve could probably give us a little a little more on that The one with the 12th street was that there was never going to be anything that could go through there And there was no public access to any any waterway or anything like that On this particular one, there's access to the waterway But for mr. Phil what the plan commission worked out on this is that He can still use that street because it's a public street. He can use it as a driveway to get into his building But now he just won't have to pay taxes on it. Unfortunately There's another property owner on the other side that if we were to Give this property to mr. Phil. He would only get half of it The other half would have to go to the other property owner and they may or may not want it We didn't get him to that point, but that's just the way the state law is so that's basically what happened, but you know He's still got access to the road, but uh city keeps right away for public Just no other discussion all in favor I'm opposed motion carry 1034 by city plan commission recommending extension of the lease with your shabuigan child care center All in order I think your honor I make a motion to accept and file the report of officer and pass the attached resolution Moved in a second to accept and file the arrow and pass the resolution under discussion under discussion your honor This will allow the shabuigan child care center to lease the little red school house for one more year It's a document I mentioned earlier To allow time to raise funds needed to for the eventual purchase of the property and uh for them This is a good thing. Uh a lot of families that use that place Need to have this uh little red school house to open and it's a good thing so Okay, if there's no other discussion that would you call the roll, please dandere will longerman Warner weninger bowman burg boney Doyle graph mani montemire moody Perez rinflight stefan vennagren 16 eyes motion carried 1035 will go to public works 1036 will be referred to public works 1037 and 38 finance 1039 will lie over 1040 By risk management recommending filing documents submitted by a communication from anna vaughn vaughn Requesting reconsideration of her claim for the damaged dress as the committee's position to deny the claim remains unchanged risk management all of them go off gonna move that the You want to take 40 you want to take 41 also sure 41 which is um Regarding submitting a claim from ross and beth stanley for alleged damage to their basement Floor due to sewage backup and flooding in the basement The risk management committee recommended that the claim be denied and document be placed on file on that city attorney serve notice of disallowed In fact moved that those two rc's be accepted and adopted It's moved in second at two rc's be accepted and adopted under discussion Hearing none, would you call the roll longerman warner when here bauman burg bonnet Doyle groff mani mondah meyer moody peres rindflash stefan van agron van der wheel 16 eyes motion carried 1042 lies over 1043 by protection and safety public protection and safety recommending filing documents submitted Submitting a communication For habitat for amenity lay site requesting a waiver for all building permits for a new home Store hn driveway and denying the request 1043 public protection safety alderman warner I think your honor. I make a motion to accept and file the report of committee Moved in second accept and file under discussion except except and adopt except and adopt. Yes Under discussion your honor, we did do this in 2000 in 2001 But with the current climate the committee felt we were giving our Opening ourselves up In the city up to claims of favoritism and possible legal problems And the city attorney's office recommended that we don't do this There are many other groups that that could come forward and ask for fee waivers and the feeling was is it's Probably not something we want to be doing in the future. The city attorney recommends denying the request and the committee agreed If there's no other discussion All in favor Opposed motion carried 1044 rc by protection and safety Recommending the denying beverage operator license 60 52 as the applicant has moved out of the state Alderman Doyle, thank you your honor. Could we also do 1045? Sure 1044 the applicant for the license moved out of state So we're we have to deny and 1045 is just a big number of licenses that we're approving Moved in second accept and adopt the rc's under discussion Yes Steve uh, Alderman Doyle, I guess I would Suggest you request if The license applicant is present and wants to be heard Now he's probably out of state, but I think I understand mr. O'Connor president No, your honor. Okay. Thank you Another discussion Pat, would you call her old please warner When you're bowman Berg Boonee Doyle graph Manny Montemayor Moody Perez Rinfleshe Stefan Van Akron Vander wheel Wongamon 16 eyes motion carried 1046 a resolution by alderman warner Doyle winning her Wongamon and van der wheel Establishing a special committee to study the feasibility of establishing a municipal court alderman warner I thank your honor. I make a motion the resolution be put upon its passage Moved in second a resolution be put upon its passage under discussion under discussion your honor This is a resolution establishing a special committee to study the feasibility Of establishing in a municipal court It would be resolved that the common council hereby establishes a special committee to study the feasibility of establishing a municipal court comprised of two older persons a representative from the city attorney's office A representative of the court services division of the shabuigan police department A representative of the shabuigan county bar association And two citizens to be appointed by the mayor and approved by the common council A finance director shall be an ex-official member of the special committee Be it further resolved that the special committee's purpose Shall be to consider the feasibility of creating a municipal court and to develop recommendations for creating and maintaining such a court Be it further resolved that the special committee shall report said recommendations to the committee on public protection and safety Honorary for september 30th 2004 and shall terminate on october 15th 2004 Your honor the public protection safety committee through its licensing function has been discussing this for several months Last year the city of plinth started a municipal court system And that rekindled our interest There was a plethora of issues involved in the creation of a municipal court If those issues are properly addressed and a successful court system established in the city of shabuigan The public protection and safety committee believes a separate body Including professional and community representatives should be created and bring back its recommendation to the common council There are many positives that could come out About from establishment of a municipal court system And if this committee finds a system like this is good for shabuigan, then we will reap the benefits If not, then we will know the public protection safety committee recommends approval. Thank you Allamon warner, maybe I missed something here, but what is the name of that committee going to be? There's no name in a resolution We actually don't have a name in in resolution, but I would call it the special committee on Municipal court, right? Okay, thank you Allamon along with Just a comment on this item Shabuigan for well over a hundred years had a municipal court system Most cities in the state of wisconsin have municipal court systems Just recently Several small towns in our area developed or adopted a municipal court system I think it would be a more expedient way for us to handle Ordinance violations and things of that nature So, uh, I would of course support this document There's no other discussion all in favor Opposed motion carried 1047 will be referred to shabuigan transit 1048 will go to shabuigan transit 1049 building use Steve 1050 no 1049 is not building use 1049 is not building use No, we find out it's going to be suspended Okay, 1049 is not building use. Okay all in order When we talked about building use I can guarantee you that Anyway, well, I would make a motion the resolution be put upon its passage First I have to ask for suspension Is there any objections to suspension? Hearing none proceed on that your honor. I would make a motion the resolution be put upon its passage Move to second resolution be put upon its passage under discussion under discussion your honor This is a resolution authorizing the appropriate city officials to execute the tenant lease agreement For the second floor of the former renits drugstore property The appropriate city officials are hereby authorized and directed to execute the tenant lease agreement between the city of shabuigan and EW real estate LLC for the second floor space in the former renits drugstore building at 807 center avenue A copy of which is attached here to your honor As you're aware the city leases the second floor of the former renits drugstore 807 center avenue to provide office space for a planning Department and for our city attorney's offices previous leases were for five years And this one is for three In the previous leases I might add that they had automatic increases each year this particular lease the The lease amount stays the same for the entire term of three years And it stays the same as it is for this year. So we're not even facing an increase. It's a little easier to budget for that When a new police station is built and city hall is remodeled and I know right now a lot of us think that'll never happen But it will happen someday at that time the planning department and The city attorney's office will be moving to city hall and we'll be saving this 40 000 a year that it costs us to lease this space Building use talked about this a couple years ago. Tom. We talked about Locating those offices in other city buildings and it's just impractical For the functioning of the city with the city attorney's office to be miles away and things like that at this time but This is one of those issues where We wish we didn't have to do this, but it's going to be a good thing And what it does is it limits it to three years and hopefully in 2005 we have our design set for a new police station And and we'll be working on building that and we may have to go by a year to year lease after that But I think this will be Um Something that will take care of itself when we have the space. Thank you. Thank you. Do we need a roll call on this? That Would you call the roll please? Wenninger Bowman Berg Boney Doyle Graff Manny Montemayor Moody Perez Rinfleisch Stefan Ben Akron Vanderweal Wongamann Warner 16 eyes Motion carried. Okay now 10 50 10 50 is communication from Roger Sontag 22 32 north 25th street relative to the site location for a new police station And that will go to building use 10 51 is an ro by the city clerk submitting a communication from al Holzheimer principal of emmanuel lutheran school requesting a change in the no parking zone in front of 16 16 illinois avenue public protection safety 10 52 is a communication received by the mayor from robber fertile Discouraging the use of the recreation trail on broton drive for dog walking that will go to public protection safety 10 53 is a communication received by the mayor from darling quashus requesting the city make a serious effort to bring a grocery store to the downtown area That can go Either to redevelopment authority or plan commission paulette. Where would you want to go? Redevelopment very good. Good guess Moved to secondary during under discussion. You're not all in favor