 Welcome to the House of Poo Corner with Jim Hogue. Your guest today is Robert Bose, and he is a founder of the Public Banking Institute. We were there at the very beginnings with Ellen Brown when this was all put together. He is also a founder of Colorado Public Banking, as well as a commentator on political economy on Colorado Public Television, or on a blog. Bob read Political Science and Economics at Stanford during the 1960s while protesting the war in Vietnam. Well, who didn't? He is the author of the Home Rule Charter of the town of Ward, Colorado, as well as a former producer, writer, director for both Colorado Public Television and Rocky Mountain PBS. He is a longtime yogi and author of two books, Solomon's Proof, A Psycho-Spiritual Journey to World Consciousness, and Seven Steps to Global Economic and Spiritual Transformation. So for those of you who followed my radio program for 25 years, I did many interviews with the, from people around the world on public money, including Ellen Brown and Zarlenga and the whole gang of people who were working on monetary reform. I haven't done a, well, we did a couple of programs already on this YouTube channel having to do with public money. And here we are again with one of the leaders in the field. And one of my problems with the Zarlenga people and the modern monetary theory people is they're working on a national and global scale. And when I first got together with Ellen Brown, and we were communicating with all the people sort of founding, who were founding public banking, Ellen and I were more at that point, I think, focusing on the state by state. Because I had personally given up on any national movement that would work. And so I was trying to do what North Dakota had done in 1919. But let's turn it over to Bob Bose, who will tell us a bit about his involvement in this. And then we can morph into his most recent books. And we'll go from there. Great, Jim. Thank you. I think that's a really important point, what you were just talking about, the difference between public banks at a state or county or municipal level, as opposed to what that means at a national level. And I do agree with you that the focus, as is the focus of PBI presently, is to work on local public banks and trying to educate that people about what public banking means in that way. The one problem I have with that approach is that we need to educate people as to what a national public bank would mean, because it's a whole other ballgame. And you have to keep your eyes on the prize and understand how, if the Fed, for example, which is still the most important central bank on the planet, because Federal Reserve notes constitute about 60% of selected drawing rights. And so it is the most traded currency on the planet, about 80% of foreign exchange occurs using Federal Reserve notes. So it's really important for people to understand the difference between what a central public bank could do versus what all the local ones could do. And of course, the Bank of North Dakota is the best example that we have of a public bank in the United States. And it served North Dakota really well. They run a budget, so surplus, they were the least effective state when the crash came in 2008. They had the lowest unemployment rate. The last time I looked, there were zero bank failures in North Dakota, all of that. It's a whole different matter when the central bank becomes a public bank, because the central bank is the only bank that can literally create what they call base money, which is sovereign currency in whatever country that might happen. And that changes a lot of things. If the Federal Reserve would change that way, and this was a plank in the original Green New Deal. And what I mean by that is the actual party platform of the Green Party in 2012. This whole Green New Deal that's been introduced in Congress is pretty much a usurpation of that. It's been severely watered down. And the whole idea, I think, between all of these quote, progressives in Congress at the present time is to really get real progressive, to vote for fake progressives in the Congress, where all of these initiatives will go nowhere. So I basically, you know, and of course, then we get into the whole act voting process in the United States with electronic voting and counting machines. They're all programmed by the folks in the manufacturing who are domestically based. This has nothing to do with the Russians. So anyway, back to your point, you know, it's an important distinction between a national public bank and the local public banks, but I do agree with you that local is where we need to focus, where you can go look at your local officials in the eye and ask them what side are you on? One of the, and we don't have time to go into the nature of money too much, but would you agree that even with a state bank, as wonderful as they are, it's what we call pass through money. You're using the money that the Federal Reserve has created so that it's not quite the same as public money. But it's still a huge step in the right direction. Because the state... Right. Go ahead. Our key thing really is that if you have a public bank in a state or a county or a county level, then basically you can leverage the tax monies and the fees that you collect. You put them into your own bank. Even if you charge yourself interest through financing, then that interest comes back to you. So literally the costs of any capital project through a public bank are literally half of what they would cost you through a privately controlled bank. So you can either do something that has to cost, or you can do twice as much for the same price. And that's huge. You can see that how North Dakota has leveraged that whenever some kind of crisis has come up, flooding or a blight or fires or anything like that, the Bank of North Dakota steps in much quicker than FEMA takes care of the issues, suspends mortgages until the crisis has passed, all sorts of things. So the whole social fabric of the state of North Dakota is much different than many other states. Families have been able to hold on to their farmland and businesses instead of having to give them up because they were collateralized and the big private banks then step in during the crisis and seize those assets. So public banking is a major factor, and it is in my book as well. And I do go into what I think would be the model of how things would change if the central bank or the central bank were nationalized. And one thing that we should mention is that that would change the entire world because of the situation of federal reserve markets. One thing that listeners might want to know is that in 1919 the people of North Dakota created their own state bank because the pressure from the central bank in New York was so great they had bought up the railroads essentially, the grange, and the mortgages on the farms. So the farmers were slaves to the great sucking sound of everything they did having to pay their share to the, which ended up with the central banks. So when North Dakota formed the non-partisan league they swept everybody out of the legislature. They had a new governor, a new lieutenant governor, everything was fresh, and Wall Street went berserkers, they tried to get the Supreme Court to stop them, but there was nothing in the constitution in any way that would stop a state from forming a state bank. There's of course a prohibition against bills of credit, but what they meant by bills of credit then is we won't get into now. But anyway, so that's the history of the Bank of North Dakota, where had they not done that they all would have lost their farms. They were losing their farms at the time. And of course the privately controlled central banks, which I generally referred to as the Anglo-Euro-American banking cartel, they have fought public banks since the beginning. And there have been a few nations that have their own central banks, Canada and Australia included, as well as other central banks around the world, and they're always under pressure and under attack and under attack. And I dare say that through the public banking movement in the United States, many, many states, well over 20 states at this time, the whole number of cities, the folks that are deciding these things are basically under a lot of pressure from the cartel to try to prevent this. There was a recents on the island, and so the only way they could get a bank was forming a public bank. So that is a new public bank within the U.S. empire, and it's still a notable success. I'm sure they'll be under a lot of pressure, and that's how public banking gets disturbed is somehow there's some sort of infiltration into the system, and then they end up buying massive assets. That's what they did to the world's oldest public bank in Italy a few years back, and that's how they brought that one down. Well, you mentioned Canada and Australia. I don't think listeners realize that they used to have real public banks, but their arms were twisted and they gave that up. I forget the dates when that happened, but both Canada and Australia had the pressure from the Anglo, from the city in London, et cetera, and they for some reason caved in. Muscle and bribery that the parliaments and congresses come under a lot of pressure. What's happened in the United States, really since the beginning, on my blog, one of my articles is really a history of the United States through the lens of banking and how the banking cartel has basically served the United States government. A lot of that came through to control the Congress over and over again. Right from the beginning, really, the first bank of the United States proposed by Hamilton a flashy new something entirely different than he is or was. It was funny. My political advisor, I got in touch with him recently when my book came out. He's 90 years old now and we were discussing all sorts of things. And then we got on the subject of Hamilton and the musical and he was just livid saying, you know, they should have made this musical about Jefferson, not Hamilton. And I thought that was funny just coming from him that we share the same perspective on the musical. And of course, a number of years before that musical, they did one on Andrew Jackson to integrate him. For the same reason, they want to get him off the currency because he was opposed to the private central banks. And of course, Hamilton was their guide. Well, and there were several attempts to assassinate Jackson that failed. And history informs me that it had to do with his antagonism toward the central banks in New York. And Lincoln and Lincoln trumped that. But back to Hamilton, there are arguments as to whether or not his American banking system that he created was sort of led the way for, again, the Anglo Empire to come right back in and control American financing because it was a similar system. Some people think, oh, no, this Hamiltonian system of banking had it been maintained purely, it would have been great. Eileen, I'm more suspicious of what Hamilton was up to because Jefferson and Franklin and, of course, Thomas Paine were very much against that kind of federalist taking over of the money system because he who controls, who creates the money is the sovereign. And so if you allow a bank to create the money, the bank becomes the sovereign. Well, you need look no further than who owned the first and second banks of the United States to settle that question. And indeed, the first bank of the United States, the Anglo-Uro American Bank in Cartel, the city of London, the private financial district in London, held a major state and then forced the United States to borrow to bolster its navy because they were attacking after the first bank. That's why the second bank didn't mean to assist people. But anyway, the Bank of the United States and the Second Bank of the United States. And when Madison refused to renew the Charter of the First Bank, that precipitated the War of 1812. And then, of course, when Jackson refused in the wake of the United States accepting the Second Bank because it needed to fund its navy because the British and the barbaric pirates were attacking, you know, attacking trade. Then all of those assassination attempts at Jackson occurred after that. Taylor opposed the Central Bank, former general, then president of the United States. He was poisoned. Of course, Lincoln actually printed green bags, which were a sovereign U.S. currency, issued without debt. And we know what happened with him. He was planning on wearing in 1863 and 1864 the National Banking Acts were passed. The cartel managed to bribe the Congress into doing this. So they stopped printing green bags and forced the United States government to use private bank notes again for which the taxpayers had to pay principal interest. Lincoln was going to try to overturn that. That's why they got you the team. You know, and it just goes on and on until they got the Federal Reserve Act. Well, one bit of history that I think is good to interject here is that the stories as to why the War of Independence had to be fought. In the first place, I don't agree with the emphasis. I don't deny that all these other things that people talk about were factors, but they don't tend to talk about the Currency Act. And in my opinion, and Ellen Brown's opinion, the Currency Act was arguably the most important thing that Britain did in order to completely regain control over the colonies. And back to what I said before, if you create the money or the sovereign, and the British bankers knew that. And so the War of Independence became necessary because the Brits prevented the Americans from creating their own currency. And then it followed right up with the War of 1812 when they tried it again. And you would think that the American politicians would have had enough revolutionary spirit in them to understand that. But I'm afraid they didn't. I mean, I don't really think they got what it meant to let the Brits take control over the currency. And then I'm sure you've read that wonderful, I don't know if it's in Ellen's book or not, the flipping out of the British bankers when Lincoln created the greenbacks. It was Chase, right? It was behind it. Yeah, well, I totally, in fact, Franklin agrees with you. Yes, I've read that. And he was pretty explicit that because it was really something that the Brits got tipped off to by Franklin to visit to London, you know. When they asked him how they dealt with poverty in the colonies, and Franklin said, well, we don't have him. And they said, well, how is that possible? And he said, well, each colony prints its own money. And so we keep circulation to match the goods and services being traded. And so that's when that currency act, the British bankers got parliament for the past currency act which banned paper money in America. And Franklin said that was the principal reason for the Revolutionary War. And so, yeah, I think the problem is that even though there were a number of Congress people that understood the money situation, and obviously Jefferson came to understand it, Madison, Franklin, all of this, threatens you or your family and then gives you a little money, that changes things. So I don't really denigrate anybody that gets put in that position. It's not for me to judge them when they're threatened like that. But this continually goes on. We can see it today. It's the same thing. Oh, yeah. We were getting pretty far along in Vermont. We had six to one vote in one committee and five to nothing, as I recall, in another. And then the chair of that committee refused, had it gone to his head. He didn't pass it on to the appropriations or finance. It was like four or five years ago. But that happened here as well. Yeah, I remember that. And we see it happening all over the country. The same thing. People get really excited about this. Santa Fe is another good example of that where they were ready to implement this. And then all of a sudden something happened. Yeah. The other aspect too, like we saw in Los Angeles, and what I tell people is, if you don't put some of your campaign money into independent exit polls, you'll have no proof as to, you know, the red flags, the more than 2% difference between the exit polls and the final results to show that the election voting that is reported is actually inaccurate. Yeah. So I think either people don't get this or, you know, or maybe there's a part of the movement that's been become useful opposition. Yeah. And I think we see that in the Congress now where we have, you know, we've had these five progressives that were appointed, you know, and everybody's all so excited about all of them. But, you know, that won't go anywhere. I think in my personal opinion, I think what happened was in 2016, Jill Stein got way, way, way more votes than were reported. And so in their inimitable and wise, I mean, you know, the cartel is the brightest and all of that. I don't know that that's really true of them, but there's a lot of smart people working for them. And so one of the things they've always done is, you know, create a voice for progressive ideas to get real progressive to vote for people in the blue party where this all goes to die. And we've only got about a minute. We've only got about a minute. By the way, I wrote the bill preventing electronic voting in Vermont, which passed like that. So that's something that happened. It was good. But tell us about your book again, and we'll set up another interview. That's the Global Economic and Spiritual Transformation. It's available under my name, Robert Bowers, on Amazon and Bonson Noble. You can also, as I continue to pump out articles on timely topics there as well. Well, that's good for everybody to know. And you lay out the seven points that you think countries around the world should look at in order to get their way out of, among other things, the debt-based money system. Of course, the whole Middle East did that, and look what happened to them. Right. And to know before we tackle this, otherwise we'll spend a lot of our time doing things that won't get us anywhere. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And look where it got. Syria and Iraq and Libya and the seven countries that Wesley Clark corrected they had sovereign money. They destroyed since 9-11, controlled their own central bank concurrency. And currently there's five left, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Cuban, Sudan, and they're all in the crosshairs. So, you know, that's definitely the agenda. Everything else is smoking mirrors. Mm-hmm. And of course, oil, that's just a secondary issue. Mm-hmm. The dollar is based on it now in the sense of gunboat diplomacy. But that's another issue too. Well, we've got so much more to talk about. Hopefully we'll set up another interview, and maybe Ellen will join us. That would be great, Jim. I really appreciate you asking me on, and I'd be happy to spend time talking with you and Ellen as well. Okay. So this has been Robert Bose. The program is called The House at Pukorner with Jim Hogue. And it will be on three different channels on YouTube. And I hope you all enjoy it and get the book by Robert Bose. Thank you.