 Welcome to Healthy Planet, the show for people who care about their health and the health of our planet on the Think Tech Live Streaming Network series. I'm your host, Dr. Grace O'Neill. Joining me today is Justin Demos from V-Dog. Today we're gonna talk about dogs going vegan. So let's get into it. Tell us about V-Dog, Justin. Well, V-Dog is vegan dog food. We've been around for about 16 years now. Our formula is nutritionally complete. People seem to love that we offer a kibble in both a regular size and a mini size. And then we offer various treats like breath bones and wiggle biscuits and a bunch of information on our website. Yeah. So what exactly does nutritionally complete mean? It's AFCO approved, which means it basically has everything that a dog would need, including touring and the amounts of protein and like crude fats and that sort of stuff. So it meets all those levels. So, you know, it's on par with any commercial dog food that you would buy for your dog. And you can like rest easy knowing that they're getting everything they need. And what is AFCO? AFCO? Yeah. I guess I'm wrong. AFCO. Yeah. Because what is that? It's literally the go-to nutrition certification, you know? Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, cause I think a lot of people want to make their dogs vegan, but they don't really know how. And so that's reassuring that, you know, the food has enough nutrition for a dog. Now, how about, I mean, since dogs are naturally carnivore, is there anything, I mean, you would say, cause dogs are descendants from wolves. Is there anything like, suppose you try, your dog's been eating, you know, carnivorous food for a long time and then you start them on a vegan diet. Is there a transition you have to make? Or do you just do it right away? What if your dog doesn't like the taste of the new food? I mean, how? Yeah, yeah. Is there anything you do to make it more meatier? Is there anything you guys do? What do people, how do people make their dogs vegan, I guess? Yeah. All right. Yeah. Okay. First thing I'll say is that dogs are actually omnivores technically because wolves, they departed from wolves, kind of evolved alongside humans for about the last 15, 30,000 years, you know? And in that time dogs or wild dogs at that time were mostly scavengers and they were budding up with humans to kind of, that was just the best place to get food at the time. And humans were feeding them both grains but also meat and vegetables and whatever scraps was left over, right? And through just like breeding and natural evolution and just what dogs survived through that time, you've got your modern dogs that can basically access all the nutrition in meat or in various vegetables and fruits, right? So, you know, as long as you make a nutritionally complete formula, you shouldn't have a problem switching them from a diet that's omnivorous or purely carnivorous to a vegan diet. You know, that said, every single dog is different and the adjustment period, we usually say like you mix a fourth of the new food in with the old food, you know, and then do that for maybe a week and then do half a cup, like half of it, the old food, half the new food and then slowly transition them over just so their stomachs have a chance to adjust, right? If they're having, you know, if they're not as like interested in V-Dog as they are in their old food, you know, that's just a palatability thing and what people do is they can add nutritionally used to the top of their food or we have this recipe on the website and I do this for Finn, my dog, you mix some various oils like flaxseed oil and sunflower oil and coconut aminos and maybe a little bit of liquid smoke and you just mix that in a bottle and then you like squeeze it on a little bit. Oh, that's great. Oh yeah, he goes crazy for it, so. Okay, that's a good, because I think it makes it taste more meaty, I guess, yeah, I mean, what are the benefits of dogs going vegan? Yeah, okay. So there's a couple of different ways of answering this. Any kind of dogs with allergies, especially to exotic animal products actually are gonna benefit from switching to V-Dog because you're not gonna encounter those. Their skin usually clears up, they have ear problems, those will clear up that sort of stuff. So that a lot, I also think about this question as you compare V-Dog to other formulas, right? So we use all plant ingredients, but a company that uses any kind of meat-based ingredients, there's the four D's and a lot to get the price down on those ingredients, they're usually using animals that are dead already or disease or disabled or just really, you would never eat what, even if you were an omnivore, you would never eat a meat that's going into a meat-based formula really. So that's kind of scary to think about it as well. And I mean, we've done various studies where we monitor the blood levels of dogs who do switch to V-Dog and we've seen benefits across the board on all those levels, so yeah. How about puppies? Cause I see that some of the dog companies, they have puppy food, but I didn't see anything like that on V-Dog. Does it matter what's the difference between puppy food and adult dog food? Yeah, puppies are different because they require more, just more. They need more calories, they're growing, they're not, V-Dog technically is an adult formula. We've seen people use it for puppies and they add things like flaxseed or coconut oil or whatever just to get the calories up and get the healthy fats in there. And that's really what a puppy is going to need in addition. Behind the scenes, we're always working on formulation that is gonna be including puppies or being a puppy dedicated puppy formula or an all life stages formula. So, especially nowadays, it's not easy sourcing ingredients with the supply chain issues and everything. And we wanna make formulas, whether it be for puppy or for an adult dog, that's affordable. We don't wanna make it inaccessible to people because it's so expensive, right? So that's the kind of articles that we run here, right? So it's just kind of a choice you have to make at some point, but we are looking into that all the time. I also noticed you guys don't have wet food. Is there a reason why are you guys working on a wet food formula? We are working on a wet food formula. We have a formula that a lot of times it just comes down to manufacturing and packaging and how can we make it affordable, that sort of thing, right? How do you make it affordable without sacrificing quality? Because that's not something we never wanna do, right? I remember the formula, when we first developed it, we were actually trying it. We would just try the formula ourselves for a wet dog food. No, no. Yeah, well, because I mean, I've actually seen this at veg fest where people will try our treats or anything because they don't wanna feed anything to their dog that they wouldn't eat. Yes, yes. And the ingredients are human grade. So it's like, why wouldn't you? I mean, you could. I don't snack on the dog, but you can. Yeah, I mean, some of the dog food looks really disgusting and unappetizing. And I could see why dogs appreciate human food. Sure, yeah, yeah. Yeah, or human grade food, I didn't see that. Now, I've seen some stuff online where people are saying that dogs are supposed to eat organ meats. Is there any specific reason why a dog should be eating that? I mean, for me, I just, that kind of, I mean, even for humans, I mean, as a medical doctor, eating organ meats is not really good for you, especially if you have gout or something, right? I can't imagine. I mean, I suppose dogs are a little bit different and what kind of nutrients they require from humans. Can you comment on that? Sure. I think the thinking here is that their ancestors were eating all of an animal. Therefore, they should be eating all of an animal. But again, the divergence from wolves that dogs took is kind of astounding. Also, this kind of the direct involvement that people have had with the evolution of dogs as well through various breeds. I mean, there's only wild dogs. So we'll only maybe a few breeds. And then, you know, we've developed many different kinds of breeds, right? Before my time, you know? Yeah. But, you know, I mean, like humans, and luckily, since dogs are omnivores, they can essentially live off of any kind of diet. I mean, I can't speak exactly to whether or not an organ diet is beneficial to them or to is a hindrance to their health, right? But I can say that the dog is supplying everything that a dog needs for the full cycle of their life, you know, minus being a puppy, right? You need to have some sort of additive into the formula. But like, I can be vegan my whole life. And thrive that way. I could also be an omnivore my whole life. And, you know, the jury is still out where they're not, that's better for me or what, but like, I'm just saying that if your dog eats one kind of food, they are just as likely to thrive on a different kind of food as long as it meets their nutritional guidelines. Yeah. So what do puppies need extra that is extra than adult dogs, I guess. It's just more of it is what you were saying. Yeah, more in the sense of like, they're burning way more energy. More calories. Yeah, they probably need more protein just because they're putting on mass, right? They need those healthy fats to just be, to develop in a healthy way. And then, you know, at their adult stage can just be reliant on the dog as well. And it's not that much. It's like, like I said, you could add coconut oil, add flaxseed oil, add these things that you want just on top of the V-dog kibble itself. Probably you also would increase the amount of V-dog kibble that you're giving them just so they're, you know, because they're burning through those calories very quickly. Yeah, yeah. Now, how about historic experience? Do we have any historic experience with dogs going vegetarian or vegan in different societies? I know you talked a little bit about people just feeding them the on-war diet, but how about specifically just a vegetarian diet? Historically, I mean, I guess it's a relatively new thing, right? I mean, there's been this in society in general, there's been this kind of thread that dogs are carnivores because they come from wolves. And as far as I know, company-wise, V-dog was the first on the scene to try to develop a formula for dogs that was strictly plant-based, right? And that was 16 years ago. So I think before that, historically, it's not been something widely publicized or widely adopted. So there's that. I think in the 16 years we've been around now, we've seen nothing but positive feedback. So it's kind of hard to argue with that. I mean, we do do studies just of that V-dog as well, and we welcome other people to vet it as well, just like do independent studies because we want the information. We want it just as bad as anybody else does, right? So that's why we'll fund our studies, we'll also encourage people to do their own and talk to their vet about it, anything that works for them. So what kind of studies have you guys done on V-dog? I know there's a couple ongoing and we're gonna be published in various journals. I don't know what journals exactly, but I can also give you that information. I was just wondering if it's about anything specific, like is it mostly about like, do you follow dogs through their lifetime? Is it a case control study, a cohort study? Do you kind of like test them for their nutrition off the V-dog and then have a comparison on a dog's not on V-dog? Yes, essentially that, right? And I think in one of the studies, we actually included a couple puppies, the person who was kind of conducting the study had some puppies and wanted to include them. And as far as I know, it's basically monitoring their, their blood levels, monitoring their, just their general health, checking them out, making sure everything's good, that sort of thing. So I think, you know, I've seen some vets talk about vegan versus non-vegan and some vets are, you know, supportive of a vegan diet for dogs, others are against it. What would you say to, you know, somebody who is saying that dogs are not getting necessary nutrients from a vegan diet? I would recommend if a vet has particular questions to email V-dog. We have resources on the website about various health things if they're interested. The benchmark for this is the AFCO approved foods. And if they're comparing us to any other food, we are AFCO approved. So I'm not sure exactly what they're saying at that point other than maybe expressing concern about the newness of it, right? In which case I would recommend they just reach out to us and try to gather some information. Maybe we can put them in touch with one of our vets or our nutritionists to kind of reassure them. But I do think there is, since it is a relatively new thing, I think vets are just a little bit hesitant. But all the studies that we've done, all the 16 years that we've been in business, the anecdotal evidence that we have from all of the testimonials and all the reviews from people, I feed my dog V-dog for the last four years. So, and his blood levels are great. I mean, I always recommend people talk directly to their vet. And if they're on V-dog and the vet tests their levels and everything looks great, I'm not sure why the vet would recommend they change their diet at all. So, and that's why, I mean, just like with humans, we go in for regular checkups. That's why I recommend people go in, they take their dog in for regular checkups with their vet. And even if there are some sort of like deficiencies in your dog, say your dog is, I mean, just like a person might have an iron deficiency, you just wanna supplement if your vet says so. But it probably doesn't mean changing their food because like I said, we don't have to go approved. So we're just like any other food basically. Yeah, and you know, I think dogs get some of the things that humans get. And so, I mean, if dogs get heart disease or anything like that, I'm sure, I mean, to some extent, it might be good for them to be on a vegan diet, to cut. And even the diseases of the joint probably when they have joint pain, it's probably helpful to be on a vegan diet just cause there's less allergens. Sure, sure. I mean, I've definitely seen a lot of our testimonials suggest as much, whether it be allergies or any, mostly allergies. I've seen like hundreds of people saying like, oh, I switched this, switched the V-dog and then allergies just cleared up almost in that week. They're just their skin. I've seen a lot of people with pit bulls, like their skin just is totally red. And then they switched to V-dog and then clears up in a couple of weeks. Yeah, so it can really make a difference. Yeah, and I mean, the carbon footprint too, that's something like, you know, company like V-dog makes on the planet versus, you know, a different kind of carnivorous dog food is very vast. I mean, it's just there's so much less carbon footprint that you're making by feeding your dog V-dog, you know? Cause some dogs are really big and you feed them a ton of food. And so throughout their lifetime, you're buying all this food and you could be supporting, you know, some company that is doing a lot of good things like V-dog versus supporting a company that is actually supporting animal suffering, you know? So I think it's appealing to a lot of people. Now, you were telling me before we started the show also about what you do with the leftover V-dog bags. Can you tell us a little bit about that? There was a place in Hawaii that you said. Oh yeah, yeah, sure. Gentle World is what we tracked them down, right? And send them damaged bags. Occasionally we get damaged bags. There's like a little tear or something, right? And we tape it off. We don't want to sell that commercially. We just want to sell the bags that are completely intact. But, you know, through the transit process or through the warehousing process, it just coupled that, well, you know, depending on how big our orders are, you know, bags will be damaged. And in which case we set them aside and then if nonprofits contact us, we'll go ahead and donate those minus the cost of shipping. And they could go to rescues. They go to sanctuaries, right? And one in particular, Gentle World in Hawaii has reached out to us many times when we've gotten them pallets through a freight forwarder. And so yeah, so I don't know exactly where they're based in Hawaii, but maybe- They said on the big island, you said, yeah. I saw the website was on the big island somewhere. Was on the big island, yeah. Yeah, we're on Oahu with Think Tech, but yeah, I think they're on the big island. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, I just wanted to ask, if you could tell everyone how V-Dog got started? Yeah, so originally the current president, Darren, his father actually founded the company. So it's been in his family this whole time. But it just basically started as Darren's father wanted to create an alternative for dogs, wanted to be plant-based, wanted to live a plant-based life, wanted to lower their carbon footprint and just started researching alternatives about that. And I mean, it's funny, I've heard Darren tell me stories about how, when they first got started, they would have to make deliveries themselves and then it just caught on from them just doing their due diligence and the formula that actually worked. And yeah, that's how it got started. That's pretty cool. I mean, I think that's great. I know that a lot of other, I've seen some other vegan dog food pop-up actually because I've been doing searches and it looks like there's a bunch of other new options as well. So it's must have, I guess, V-dog was the first one, but I think other people are, there's such a bigger vegan population now and they're looking for more alternatives. Are most of the people who are buying V-dog food, are they mostly vegan? Are people who are just looking for food for their dogs that is not allergenic? Yeah, I would say most of the people, I'm guessing, right? But the sense that I get is that most of the people who are buying V-dog are themselves plant-based. But that's not to say that they're exclusively, I mean, I know a lot of people do feed their dog V-dog because of allergies. And we are always reaching out to omnivores to see if they'll try it. We have our free samples available on the website. So if anybody even wants to consider it just because they wanna lower their family's carbon footprint, if their dog can thrive on this, it's easy enough for them to switch out and it's competitively priced with any other dog food, any other comparable dog food. So that's something to consider. If it's an easy switch for you and your dog is interested in it, why not kind of? But that's a harder sell just for the reasons we've outlined in this talk, right? A lot of people just come to the conversation thinking that dogs are absolutely carnivores, you know? Yeah, yeah. And I think that I read something in your website. Actually, can you show the website that people in India have been feeding their dog vegetarian for a really long time? So, isn't that true? So that actually dogs can thrive on a vegetarian or vegan diet, probably. Yeah, and I've heard that a lot of the prescription formulas are just by default vegetarian. They use maybe like a pulverized soy or, you know, they'll probably use eggs in there as well and those certain formulas, but yeah, you just wanna be a completely plant-based one. There's the dog. And like you said, there's other alternatives that are popping up, you know? I just love, I mean, those companies are, you know, seeing an opportunity in the market to offer this kind of formula. And I think VDogg's mission has always been just to encourage, you know, a movement away from animal cruelty, a movement away from, or a movement towards a lower carbon footprint, lower water consumption, all that stuff. And I think that's what drew me to the company in the first place is that that's kind of the core mission. I know that, you know, the company actually takes like a much slower like profit margin just because they're really just interested in making things affordable for customers so that the barrier to entry to a less animal cruelty is not so high, right? Yeah, that's great. Well, we're out of time now, so we have to wrap it up, but I'm Dr. Grace O'Neill. This is Healthy Plana on ThinkTech live streaming network series. We've been talking with Justin Demos from VDogg. Thanks to all for being here and thanks to our broadcast engineer and the rest of the crew at ThinkTech for hosting our show. And thanks to you, our listeners for listening. I'll see you on May 12th for more of Healthy Planet on ThinkTech, the show for people who care about their health and the health of our planet. Our next show will be about vegan nutrition with our special guest, Dr. Michael Clapper. If you have ideas for the show, please contact me at HealthyPlanetThinkTech at gmail.com. Check out my website at graceandhawaii.com for more information on my projects, including future show guests. I'm Dr. Grace O'Neill. Aloha everyone. Thank you so much for watching ThinkTech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.