 Major sponsors for Ableton on Air include Green Mountain Support Services, empowering people with disabilities to live home in the community, Washington County Mental Health, where hope and support come together. Media sponsors for Ableton on Air include Park Chester Times, Muslim Community Report, WWW, this is the Bronx dot info, Associated Press Media Editors, New York Parrot Online Newspaper, U.S. Press Corps Domestic and International, Anchor FM and Spotify. Partners for Ableton on Air include the HOD of New York and New England where everyone belongs, the Orthodox Union, the Division for the Blind and Visually Impaired of Vermont, the Vermont Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, Central Vermont Habitat for Humanity and Montpelier Sustainable Coalition, Montefere Medical Center of the Bronx, Rose of Kennedy Center of Bronx, New York, Albert Einstein College of Medicine of the Bronx. Ableton on Air has been seen in the following publications, Park Chester Times, WWW, this is the Bronx dot com, New York Parrot Online Newspaper, Muslim Community Report, WWW dot H dot com and the Montpelier Bridge. Ableton on Air is part of the following organizations, the National Academy of Television, Arts and Sciences, Boston, New England chapter and the Society of Professional Journalists. Welcome to this edition of Ableton on Air, the one and only program that focuses on our needs, concerns and achievements of the differently able. I've always been your host Lauren Siler and on this television program today before we get to our wonderful guest Senator Rebecca Ballant of Vermont and talking about gun control, we would like to say a special thanks to our sponsors Washington County Mental Health, Green Mountain Support Services and many many others including the Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, higher ability of Vermont as a partner as well as many others. Welcome Senator Rebecca Ballant to Ableton on Air. We're here today to talk about gun control and the importance of gun control and they're in the news as of late all around the world. There's been issues of school shootings, there's been issues of many situations with guns and ghost guns and new things. Can you explain a little bit about because I know that Governor Scott had passed a gun law, can you explain a little bit about that and then we can go from there? Oh happy to and thank you so much for having me and for folks who might be watching. I'm the President Pro Tem of the Senate here in Montpelier in the in the State House but I represent Wyndham County in the southern part of the state and I mentioned that because the organizer, the founder of one of our best gun safety prevention programs here in Vermont, Gunsense Vermont, is actually from my home county, her name is Anne Brayden. She no longer heads the organization Gunsense Vermont but she was really the one after the Sandy Hook massacre, the school, she was originally from Sandy Hook. And also Columbine too. Exactly and so she really was instrumental in pushing all of us around the state to think more carefully about gun violence prevention. And so this most recent bill comes after a series of other bills that we've worked on in the last few sessions and so the bill that the governor did eventually sign into law was S4 and I just want to be clear that. Explain S4. Absolutely I had several parts. One aspect of it was keeping guns out of hospitals. We had seen an uptick in aggression and issues that could lead to violence in hospitals and healthcare facilities and we felt it was really important to be really clear that guns did not have a place in hospitals especially when nurses, doctors, families, everybody's just trying to get people well. So that was one aspect of the bill. The other was to give better protections for folks who are experienced domestic violence at home is making sure that there was a mechanism for removing the firearm from somebody who had been accused or had a history of domestic violence. And then it was our push to try to close what we call the Charleston loophole, which is a way in which guns can change hands specifically at gun shows without people having to have a background check run. And that of course is problematic. How speaking about background check before we get to our latest questions. Are there stronger rules within the law that because you know people are mentally and physically challenged, are there stronger contingencies within the law, I think that's about what I'm using to make it harder for someone to get a gun if they have a mental challenge? Well, one of the things that I definitely would want viewers to know is that we know that if you are someone within the disabled community or differently able community, you are more likely to be a victim of gun violence, a victim of violence in particular, not more likely to commit violence. And I think in the media, there is this misconception it can be a dangerous misconception, right? That people who are are dealing with mental illness are the ones that are perpetuating the violence. And that is that's not at all what the data shows. And so what we're really trying to get at is making sure there are systems in place to prevent people who have a history of violence, not a history of mental illness, but a history of violence from now, but do they have to take? Obviously, you have to have a background check. So what are some of the things that if, okay, for example, if I'm going to get a firearm, yeah, what are some of the things that I would have to go through? A psychological exam, et cetera, to get that firearm and how strong is it? Right. It's it the the best protection that we have right now is the universal background check push is to make sure that anyone, because of course, we are protected by the constitution, the federal constitution. Second Amendment. Exactly. You're allowed to, as a private citizen, have a firearm. And so we have to be really careful that we're not impeding a citizen's ability to purchase legally a firearm. What we want is to make sure there are safeties in the system so that if you are trying to purchase one legally and it's clear that you shouldn't have one because you have a history of violence, that that should come up on a background check. And so that's why the Charleston loophole piece was so important to us because it essentially allowed guns to change hands without anyone having a background check. So it was not flagged in that way. Okay. Um, go ahead. What's your questions? Take your time. Repeat the question, please. Okay, now. I understand her questions. Children shouldn't have access to guns under a certain age. What, uh, like, for example, if a parent is a police officer, other like they should keep it in a lockbox, obviously, because there's been issues with that. Um, how are we keeping guns out of schools? There's other ways that we're keeping guns out of schools and out of young children, say, that shouldn't have guns. I really, I really appreciate the question. I have an 11 year old and a 14 year old and I actually taught for a long time in public schools. And it was your former teacher, former teacher, exactly. And, um, have seen really directly how the acts of violence perpetrated by by students against other students and teachers. Of course, it has become, um, a horribly more frequent occurrence. And so you spoke really, um, clearly a moment ago about the importance of having safe, safe storage at home. And that is definitely something that we have been, uh, legislation that I that we've been trying to move here in Vermont is making sure that a a, um, a child or a teenager living in a home that has guns does not have unfettered access to the guns and the ammunition. That has been, uh, a much more difficult, um, including BB guns, including other types of fire. Sure. And so, as you know, uh, here in Vermont, we do have a longstanding, um, hunting tradition and there are, uh, is a significant amount of pushback we've gotten from, you know, Vermonters who are part of, um, the hunting, uh, community saying that one of the reasons that we have guns in our home is not just for hunting, but it's also for family protection. And, uh, we have had a very difficult time making the case that when you keep your ammunition and your guns together in the same place, or if you do not have them securely stored all too often, they fall into the hands of your children. And so that is work that we've tried to do in the past. We're going to continue to do that work. Um, but it's, it's an interesting question that we struggle with. Is it better to go down the, the avenue of much more education, right? Pediatrician to, um, to family member, um, you know, guidance, counselors and teachers to family saying when we leave guns unattended at home, we know that we have any other weapons for that matter. Any other weapons. Certainly. Um, I mentioned firearms in particular because we have a problem with suicide with firearms in Vermont. And we're an outlier. Our, our, we're an outlier. Our statistics are higher than other surrounding states and other states who should be based on the number of guns in, um, among the citizenry. We're still an outlier. We have more, uh, suicide work to do. Yeah. We have more work to do and more unfortunately more, uh, one of the, since we said suicide and then Arlene will get back to your question. What, what is, uh, if you can give some statistics, I know it's a horrible statistic suicide. Um, how so, um, how is it, um, what is the correlation between suicide and guns? You know, right? So was the outline to sit statistic. Right. So one way to think about it is, um, you have, um, you know, in any state, you have unfortunately, um, a snippet, a significant number of, uh, people in any given year that try to take their, their own lives, which is a horrible thing. There's a horrible thing. It's a terrible thing. When you have easy access to guns, we know that people who attempt, um, to end their lives with suicide, um, are more readily able to complete that suicide. If there's a firearm involved, there's less of a chance of survival than if you were using some other means, uh, in which, um, to take your own life. And so that's why we've been very focused on this issue of letting people know, first of all, it's more young men that are intact. It's more men. It's more men. Women, uh, don't tend to use firearms, um, when they are contemplating, um, taking their own lives. And so what it means is you have what we call a higher rate of suicidality, but also of, um, lethality because you're using a firearm as opposed to another means. Well, we also know in Vermont, we have higher rates of suicide, um, by gunfire, um, at, um, the over 50 range for men as well. And so there is a lot more research that needs to be done. Is it around, is it around isolation? Is it around depression, feeling disconnected? But there's a gender component here in Vermont. And it's one of the things that I've tried to really concentrate on when I'm out talking to constituents is that this is a healthcare crisis when it comes to men's, uh, health, long-term and mental health. And we have to be honest about depression itself, depression and, and other things. And when you couple it with firearms, that's when, again, as I say, Vermont's an outlier. We have more people taking their lives with firearms and, and more men here in Vermont. And so I really want people to be aware of that because it's often talked about in terms of, well, more women want, uh, gun safety measures and, and more men want more freedom. This is often how it is very like, um, very crudely talked about. And one of the things that I've always tried to do is push against that narrative and say, actually, we're trying to address this healthcare epidemic of suicide, a young, among young men, but also, um, older men of, of, you know, older, I think it's over 55. And so it's, there are so many facets of this. And I think there's a lot of misunderstanding around, um, really who we're trying to help here, right? And it is, um, it's important to look at the details and not get caught in the rhetoric between the, essentially the two camps, right? Um, it's not about restricting freedom. It's really about keeping people. Well, no, not restricting the Second Amendment, but making it stronger so people don't get their hands on guns. Who shouldn't have made fire or on, um, go ahead. Do you want to ask another question? Um, yeah, getting to law enforcement, I think I understand what your question is, um, getting to law enforcement. There's been issues where police officers, not mind you, um, they're of authority and we should respect them. There have been issues of police officers making a mistake. And instead of pulling the taser out, they discharged their firearm accidentally killing someone that shouldn't be killed. Now there's, there's also another weapon that's less, less lethal that certain states are using. It's called a bolo. You push it, it comes out with a hook and they, it wraps around the person. So it's not killing the person. It's just putting them down. Um, I don't know anything about the bolo. It's the first I've heard of that. Yeah, I've done research on it. Um, and we've done research on it, but, um, our police are, are, um, I hate using this word and I don't want to use the word trigger happy and, but there has been issues of police misusing their firearm. There are going to be laws against that in Vermont as well. Yeah. We have looked at the, the issue. I don't mean to use that word. No, no, no. I understand what you're saying. Um, there's, there's a number of, um, issues there. One, yes, the, these high profile cases of officers, uh, inadvertently grabbing their firearms instead of their tasers is, um, trying to educate you, but yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's really, um, absolutely tragic, right? And what I think it often goes back to is the level of training that officers are getting around de-escalation and, and, and that and other forms of de-escalation. Exactly. Other forms of de-escalation and, you know, one of the things that I've heard from law enforcement, um, for years in my job as state senator is what's been challenging for them in Vermont is because we have so much of a proliferation of guns generally in Vermont. And it was only recently in 2018 where we really had any restrictions on firearms. We were actually one of the most lax states in the nation about any kind of firearm regulation. And they always felt like we are walking into these situations and we know in many instances we are at the disadvantage because we don't know who, who has guns, how many, because the regulations were so lax. Now, as we continue to do our work in the legislature to try to tighten up those laws, it has to go along with, uh, continued training that is looking more specifically at de-escalating these issues. And as you said, not always to reach so quickly for the firearm. And to use some other reasoning tactic like the, the, okay. So the Bolo, similar to a Spider-Man's, Spider-Man's web, you know, all right. It's a, it's a device. You push it once a fish hook type of thing comes out and either it goes around the legs or the middle of the person. So it's not, it's not lethal and it's not killing them. Right. So, um, yeah, de-escalation, like for example, I'm going to mention Washington County Mental Health, they have, uh, their team two where they put a social worker with a police and that's a less likely way of de-escalating a situation instead of a firearm. Yes. Whenever we can have, um, folks from a mental health team embedded with police or, or providing at the academy, at the training academy, additional training about steps you can take before you get to that, you know, that crisis situation. That, that's better for everyone. It's better for the citizenry. It's better for the officers. You know, it, it is a very challenging job to be in law enforcement. It can be a very dangerous job. And I think it is, um, it is always best for everyone concerned when there is training that is, that doesn't start with, um, the first reflex being meeting violence with violence is there a way to de-escalate. But these situations, they're so complicated and they're, um, they're intense. They happen quickly. And so we really want to be able to give law enforcement the tools they need to be able to de-escalate in those moments. And now in terms of training citizens with firearms, um, if someone is going to get a firearm, is there any special training that someone, let's say someone, um, even though I don't approve of a disabled person having a firearm, but if they need to protect themselves, is there any type of training that they can have? There's certainly training available in terms of training being required. Nothing that I can, that I can think of. That being said, um, so as I said earlier, I was a teacher for, for many years. And many of my students who were hunters, who went with their family something, they all went through hunter safety courses. And we have a very robust hunter safety course, um, system here in Vermont. And so I want to give a shout out to all those instructors who take it very seriously. Um, in terms of a, a citizen, uh, purchasing a firearm, there is no requirement for you to, to complete safety on discharging that firearm. And so again, it comes up against, um, your second amendment right to, to obtain it. But of course, you know, we as a legislature are always looking to do the least restrictive thing that we can do to make people safe, right? We don't want to prevent, um, people who have, um, the legal right and authority to be able to purchase a gun to do so. But we always want to make sure to your point that it's not being purchased by someone who really has a history of violence or a mezzo challenge. Because for example, Obama, uh, and some other presidents have made it harder. Like if, if a person gets social security, um, or some kind of government funding, um, if they have a mental challenge, they shouldn't be able to have or, um, they are making it harder for people, um, to get a firearm. But, um, again, it goes towards more education. And again, like I said, misconceptions that people can't, is there any other types of misconceptions around the gun guns and gun violence? Yeah, I really appreciate the question. Um, in the same way that we don't talk honestly, I think in this state about the problem we have with suicide, I think we, we often don't speak as openly as I wish people would about our, uh, problem with domestic violence and that, you know, we, whether they shoot their partner or that's exactly right. Oh, violence. Yes. Violence in the home that escalates into, um, death related to firearm. And so we've passed, um, a number of laws in the last few years really looking at that issue. Um, how do we make sure that the, um, that law enforcement can get an order from a judge to take away a gun from someone who has been or revoke their second amendment, right? Well, and that is again, that is something that should be done, uh, very carefully since it is a, you know, a constitutional right. But that is, that's really the crux of it, right? When someone has a history of violence and specifically against, uh, their partner in a household, it shouldn't be easy for them to get that gun back, especially as they're being adjudicated, right? Well, uh, define that. I'm sorry. So going through the legal process, right? Whether it is a trial, whether it is a case that's going to court. And so there's that in between time, right? Somebody's arrested, they're accused of domestic violence or they have a history of domestic violence. And you do not want the gun to remain in the home and available to that person if they're out on bail or if they, you see what I'm saying? There's that, what I think of as the, that, that very scary time for a victim of domestic violence when they don't know if something else is going to trigger, trigger that anger again. And so making sure that there is a mechanism to get that gun away from the household. And I think that has been something we've been focused on for years. And it's been some surprisingly challenging to convince people that actually that's the right thing to do. And it goes back to what I was saying before, when we have had hearings at the state house around these and other gun violence prevention issues. Sometimes it's a sea of men testifying in relationship to supporting gun rights and gun ownership. And it's a sea of women coming to say, I was threatened by my spouse with a firearm or by my boyfriend or, you know, there is an inability right now, I think, for people to see the issue from another perspective. And that's some of the work that we've tried to do in the legislature for years is that it's really about keeping people safe. We're not trying to take away people's constitutional rights. Yeah. What are some of the other situations with gun violence and gun laws that you are working on that people might be interested in? Yes, we'd really like to have a handgun purchase waiting period, because we know that when somebody is feeling either personally agitated, that's probably not a great time for them to be purchasing a handgun, either because they're going to take their own life or they may perpetrate violence against somebody else. And so we have tried in the past to get a handgun waiting period. So you go to the you go to the dealer or you go to the store and you say, I'd like to purchase this gun. And if in the past, you can go in and you can buy it same day, you can go in, you can buy it and walk out with one. And we're trying to get at that, again, that very critical time when someone may be buying it when they're under duress, when they're feeling anxious or angry about something. And if they're buying it for protection long term, then having to wait a day or two really shouldn't make a difference, right? What to them like, yes, you're you can you can purchase this firearm in a few days time, we just want to, you know, have a waiting period to make sure that you're not buying it at a time. When emotionally, it's probably not a good healthy time for you to do that. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Now, you've been in the Senate for quite a number of years. I understand that, you know, on another topic, you're wanting to run or you are trying to run for Congress. Yes, that's right. Can you explain a little bit about that in your work and why you really left education, even though we're educating people? Yes. I loved being a teacher. I think I will always be a teacher in some way. My work as a teacher in the public schools here in Vermont really has shaped my work in the legislature because I worked in four different, you know, public schools here in Vermont, different parts of the state. And I have a really good understanding of what families are going through right now, not just on these issues, but issues around the economy and looking ahead to the future of Vermont. Are they feeling like they can raise their kids here financially as it possible? Some people I've heard are leaving Vermont for better because, you know, taxes and other. Well, and it is a very uncertain moment economically for people coming, you know, after two years of the pandemic. And so when I think about the issues that are really important to my constituents, certainly issues around gun violence prevention are very, very important. Housing, the cost of housing in Vermont is a big one. The cost of healthcare. So I'm someone who very much supports Medicare for all model, making sure that everyone has guaranteed healthcare and that it doesn't bankrupt them. For example, the other day we had somebody on the show talking about universal school food, you know. Yes. My meeting before this interview was on that actually at the state house. Yeah. And the food insecurity. Food insecurity issue. That's another issue that's important. Yes. And so and on a sort of a more broad perspective, one of the things that really pushed me to decide to run to Congress right now is what happened on January 6th of last year with the storming of the Capitol. I think that we as a nation really have people really got violent. Yes, they did. They got violent. And you've got people serving in Congress right now who don't believe in democracy, because if they did, they wouldn't have supported the insurrection. And so there are personal issues for me, as I said, related to the work that I've done with families here in Vermont that are important to me. And I also I want to make sure that our democracy survives. And I feel like I've done a tremendous amount of work here in the in the state Senate. And I feel like some of the investments that we need to make on a larger scale need to be done at the federal level. And especially when it comes to services and people with disabilities. Yes, absolutely. All right. So so we would like to thank you. Oh my gosh, thank you. For joining us on this edition of Ableton on Air. For more information on your work and where can people contact you? They can go to two ways. So on the congressional campaign side, they can go to becavalent.com and they can also go online to the Vermont legislature and go to the Senate and search for my name. And you can send me an email that way. Okay, well, we would like to thank you for joining us on this edition of Ableton on Air. For more information also on Ableton on Air, you can go to www.orcamedia.net. That's O-R-C-A-M-E-D-I-A dot net. I'm Lauren Siler. See you next time. Major sponsors for Ableton on Air include Green Mountain Support Services, Empowering People with Disabilities to Live Home in the Community, Washington County Mental Health, Where Hope and Support Come Together. Media sponsors for Ableton on Air include Park Chester Times, Muslim Community Report, www, this is the Bronx.info, Associated Press Media Editors, New York Power Online Newspaper, U.S. Press Corps Domestic and International, Anchor FM and Spotify. Partners for Ableton on Air include Yechad of New York and New England, where everyone belongs, the Orthodox Union, the Division for the Blind and Visually Impaired of Vermont, the Vermont Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, Central Vermont Habitat for Humanity, and Montpelier Sustainable Coalition. Montefere Medical Center of the Bronx, Rose of Kennedy Center of Bronx, New York, Albert Einstein College of Medicine of the Bronx. Ableton on Air has been seen in the following publications, Park Chester Times, www, this is the Bronx.com, New York Power Online Newspaper, Muslim Community Report, www.h.com, and the Montpelier Bridge. Ableton on Air is part of the following organizations, the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences, Boston, New England Chapter, and the Society of Professional Journalists.