 already cool so we're here today so that you can all get to know Oliver a bit better and to run through the design brief that he created as a tool for collecting information on your sites so that you're better informed when knowing how to restore them and who knows Oliver who's spoken to Oliver before and who hasn't is there anyone here that hasn't spoken to him yet okay do you want to introduce me Oliver yeah so hey everyone I'm Oliver Goshe I've recently started working with ecosystem restoration camps as their restoration coordinator and I have been working in regenerative design consulting and building for the last about six years actually quite a bit longer than that but it's been more sort of like finding my way up until I founded the company Abundant Edge in 2014 when I started doing my first natural building contract in the Philippines and since then I've worked quite all around the world in around 15 years of travel and been to Senegal and the last three years I lived in Guatemala and worked in indigenous communities there and had sort of a small demonstration permaculture farm with some colleagues of mine I've recently relocated to Spain and yeah I'm very passionate about helping people transition to a resilient lifestyle that is based around ecosystem regeneration and communities did anyone else miss the last bit of that was it just me everybody catch that I think that your last sentence was silent but I think we got the gist I'll say again yeah I'm very passionate about helping people to transition to resilient lifestyles that are based around ecosystem restoration and community development and support great well then you're in the right place so who do you not know here who would who would like to introduce themselves Seb I know this is your first time so why don't you tell us a bit about about you sure hi everyone I'm from Belgium and with a patch on team so we're running a project in southern Portugal we're pretty much in the early stages right now we're still at the we're still finalizing the acquisition of the 200 hectare piece of land in the southern tip so south west of Portugal in the Algarve currently blocked we have a small number of legal issues that we're dealing with with the city hall so that's taking a bit of time but I'm very excited to be joining this group of people in the all this energy around ecosystem restoration nice to meet you Seb can you tell us real quickly about what some of your goals are for the restoration project that you're managing yes so we want to do two things so the lands that we're on right now is pretty degraded for a number of reasons overgrazing monocultures especially monocultures of eucalyptus so the idea would be to restore the land and the ecosystems by you know doing first starting with the water retention projects like swales and and ponds and lakes and a second big topic would be helping surrounding communities with food sovereignty Portugal is very dependent on foods coming from external sources especially Portugal and we want to show that you can restore the ecosystems while providing food to the surrounding communities and villages so that's the that's the project marvelous thanks so yeah so I wonder how much time everyone's got because I'm tempted to do more introduction so that we're all more familiar with each other but I also don't want to detract time from the real reason we're here so if you're all happy to I'm sure we'll get the chance to get to know each other a bit more in the future and shall we just dive into why we're here looking at the design brief another thing we could do is if anybody wants to take the time to maybe record a couple minute video and post it to our WhatsApp group so that everybody can see it that might be a good way to do the intros yeah I'd like that yeah or a voice note just yeah voice note whatever you're comfortable with sounds good already well we're still waiting for Corinne but we're recording so I don't know how you want to do it Oliver did you have an idea for how this would best work maybe sharing your screen in degree well I thought you were going to kind of direct this one but if you're looking for ideas we could start by speaking with camp directors who have maybe a specific question or an issue or a challenge that they're dealing with and we'll see if any other people are struggling with the same thing and see if we can maybe bounce some ideas around unless you had another idea well my idea was that the design that you created we would share your screen and then go through it and just to make sure everyone here is clear on how to fill it in and then if we get through that relatively quickly then we could go on to asking specific questions but I feel that that might be for another session what do people hear your question for you so what is it that you want to get out of this everyone here or you're just happy for us to lead it tell me what you want people I think it would be nice to have like something like structured that we can adapt to our own place yeah so does that mean go through the brief yeah I think I think that would be cool all right do you want to share your screen Oliver have you got it up no actually I lost it a little bit in the emails well I think if Oliver shares his screen then we can all see it from his screen and he can go through it that way yep all right so I will go ahead and start if anybody has questions feel free to throw them up in the chat and I'll try and keep this going fairly quickly because the design brief is quite detailed and it is kind of in a first draft form still so I am actually working through it on a project of my own to kind of look at it from your perspective to make sure that it all makes sense and maybe change wording or clarify certain things as as I work through it and get feedback from all of you as well so I will share my screen now and we'll start from the beginning I won't read things off verbatim and I won't go into too much detail about any individual aspects I'll try and summarize sections and then as you have the resource on your side you can work through it at your own pace and if there's any questions if there's any need for clarification you can either ask them in the chat now and either we'll have time to get to them today or you can put them in the what's app group and I'll work through them as we all have time and post them for everyone to see sound good that's right let's go all right let's see what I have here all right can everyone see my screen now yeah all right so this was the cover page at the front I'm moving on down passing through the intro because you can read all of that for yourself the getting started portion and we're going to start with defining your vision and your goals and this is important to know that a lot of you probably already have this defined but perhaps not written down or in a format that can be easily shared with others and that's the main intention of this and so by having this clearly outlined and written out and I'm using an example that I'm actually working through on project of my own that I'm using this template to fill in so that you have some examples of how I'm doing it in the beginning create an a statement of intent if you're working in in a group or as part of an organization or a small team this would be really important to do in collaboration with the people that you're working with so that everybody's on the same page and later in the brief there will be other sections where we're working to get on the same page with everyone involved with the project so that we don't have anyone you know metaphorically rowing in different directions and working against each other this is all as an effort to make sure that you're working together and in synchronicity so I have a little example here you can either take a screenshot or read it out in your own time I'll share this as I continue to work through it why are you attempting the project what motivates you and then the vision itself and the questions here are really meant to provoke a number of different ways of looking at your project it can be easy to kind of look through the most simple lenses and okay well I want to make the ecosystem more healthy okay well let's talk first about sort of what the greatest potential that you see for your site and your program this is where you get the chance to dream as big as possible because when we start to gather essential information from your site and start to assess the degradation of the land we're gonna have to start to whittle down some of these visions and goals to what the realistic resources and sort of context of your land will allow as of course you build fertility and resilience into your landscape the capacity for life and whatever other ambitions that you have is going to grow but we do need to define these in the beginning so that we know what it is we're aiming towards so you can work through these as you go write out the vision of your finished product how will the land change from how it is currently again these are all questions or prompts to make you think about it from a number of different ways and try and make sure that you go back over these the idea of this design brief is not that you fill it out once and then it's finished but that you have a document that continues to evolve as your landscape does as well remember we're always working with living systems so there is no finished it's always a state of maintenance of development of observation and then repeating those processes working with dynamic systems means revision pretty regularly so being able to come back and reference these and make sure that they are not in conflict with one another that each of these aspects of the vision and your goals are working together and are not sort of yeah in conflict that's going to be the overall intention of this portion so what are some of the primary activities that the site will support if you're focused on farming then this is going to have everything to do from planting all the way to production and sales if this is mostly geared towards like agritourism or hosting work camps or being an educational facility this is where you start to outline those aspects and obviously the infrastructure and some of the development is going to be different depending on what the main functions of your site are meant to be in the long run analyzing resources how they will be used recycled on the site this is really important for understanding how to manage waste streams and resources as well so it might be all well and good that you have access to let's say a whole bunch of harvest of some kind of plant or you have the money to be constantly bringing in certain resources to supply campers let's say for example toilet paper right but if it results in having a whole bunch of plastic bags that either end up going to a dump or inadequate waste treatment facility then you're not really taking care of the full cycle and so this is an opportunity to take a look at the full cycle of the of the resources that you're bringing on to your site and we can go through these individually as people start to fill out their forms but right now we'll just kind of breeze through them taking an assessment of the people who are working on the project now is is anybody here working entirely alone on their project or does everybody have at least one or two partners or or working in groups you can answer in the chat let me see if I can get that up is everybody working with partners yep yeah so it pretty much everybody is going to be working with more than one person and even if you are working alone at some point you're going to be including others at different stages of development and this is why getting on the same page with team members is so important because you know like I mentioned earlier if you're not working towards the same goals it's going to be really hard to move forward together so when you do that making a list for each permanent member of your team is important I'm not going to encourage you to do this for every single person who either comes on to your site maybe camp members volunteer students because it starts to get really heady this is really for people who are going to be with you for the duration of the project or at least for the foreseeable duration of the project and making a list of your sort of the resources the skills and abilities that you bring is going to be a good way for everybody to look at okay perhaps the best person to manage this portion of our project is going to be this person who has this skill and try and divide up and delegate certain tasks or activities to the people who are best suited to do it or if there's nobody who has a skill or an ability that's tailored to what it is you're trying to work on then figuring out either who can learn it or simply who has the time to take on you know getting it done again this is all taking assessment of the people on the on the project do you need to address limitations before starting the project so that by the time you're taking action you have a bit of an idea of what it is that you could run into which could hold you back and ideally even address those things before you get started what is the best case scenario of your restoration ambitions this is going to be a long form answer if in some cases it might even be a small essay but again this is the point in our design that we're dreaming as big as possible I really want to hear from people when I get a chance to look over these really what the the grandest vision that you can come up with is because once that's defined we can start to tailor or reverse engineer back from that to what it is that we have now and what it is we need as far as steps resources and efforts in order to get closer to that goal within a timeline defining the worst case scenario is also important because as you go through this exercise you start to identify some of the things that could come up that could hold you back and this might be regulations this might be small government or codes that don't allow you to do some of the things that you had originally designed or aspired to do but it might so might also be lack of funding it might be you know if your health and sanitary conditions on the site are not adequate that could be a potential roadblock or a hurdle if people are getting sick or if they're you know not adequately cared for while they're working and so by defining all of the things that could go wrong you have a document that you can look at in order to try and mitigate or prevent these things to smooth out the process as you move forward okay the same here with fears and hesitations now this is an exercise that I've used in a lot of different projects not just for ecosystem restoration but when it comes to taking action a lot of people are held back because not not because they don't know what to do but because they're afraid of taking certain steps or what might happen if they take certain risks and so by defining here your fears and the risks that you're worried about and numbering their likelihood and then coming up with answers later on on how you could perhaps mitigate these things how you could prevent them or how you could repair them if the damage happens is really useful for giving you an idea of like putting in perspective the things that are holding you back like I said whether they're fears whether they're risks whether they're any other hesitations they might be internal aspects they might be external aspects but by listing them here it's a good way to figure out really how much effort how much energy how much concern you need to be dedicating to those in order to be able to move forward without taking on any unnecessary risks or by managing them effectively all right now the difference between goals and vision the vision is a bit more of an abstract aspect these are like your desires the things that you dream about and the goals are things that are a lot more tangible and so we start here with safe and sanitary spaces a list of needs in general for what you're going to have to have on site in order for things to progress needs are pretty universal so there's not going to be a whole lot of variation in these sources of water food shelter income are going to be more or less the same throughout all of these camps it's how you deal with them how you provide for them that's going to be different and this is where you get a chance to write those in now once or really where this is is going to differentiate what you desire as far as comforts conveniences options and anything else here it's a good place to list them out and refer to them as you start to move forward with your design to make sure that you're addressing these things now they're definitely secondary to needs obviously when you're first starting out you want to address those needs first and then work into the wants categories as you have more resources and time and by prioritizing the difference between those two ideally you can get some of the most important things done first and allocate resources with a good list of priorities now putting here out different projections in time I wouldn't worry too much at the early stage about going into the 10-year projections but because all of us are working with living systems that take time to develop at least getting an idea of the one to five year timeline is going to be essential for the progression of your landscape no matter how fast you work you're not going to be able to make the plants grow much faster than it would naturally and so recognizing that these successional models in developing perennial plant systems in having pasture recover and having trees reach maturity those are at a minimum are going to take you know usually five to seven years if we're talking about fruiting trees it might take two or three years to start to recover the health of your pastures it might take you a number of years to get the money together to build some of the essential infrastructure and so looking at it in a time frame is really important so that you have a realistic idea of what you can do in in each of those year segments defining resilience and stability here in this section is important because like having a personal definition for these is going to give you a guide as to how you prioritize some of the actions in your project and again having these written down as a reference as you work through your different stages of design is really going to make it easier if you have it written down go back take a look at these and make sure that people are on the same page especially because many of you are designing in groups or working with multiple people and so yeah having it written down is very very important for gaining consensus and so we break this down further here how would you define how or how would you like the facilities and landscape to be functioning in these different time frames a lot of this is expanding on this portion earlier in the page and putting in more detail as we move through as you develop more detail you get a clear idea and the detail allows you to break things down into smaller steps that are manageable it can be extremely overwhelming if you put out lofty goals like I want to restore this ecosystem well there's a million different steps in that process and so each one of these blocks is helping you to break things down into smaller chunks that are manageable and less overwhelming this again is going to be specific to each one of you and your context so your organizational structure and assessment of your team and decision-making structure is very important for again getting on the same page with everybody that you work with and these are different ways of writing it down so that everybody can reference and there aren't hopefully any conflicts that come out of this later defining resources here again for reference all of the things that you have access to both personally that you can borrow or that are available out in your larger community taking an inventory of your site these questions here will help you come up with a list and as we build our maps also the locations of where you can get each of these things that you already have access to now analyzing your site is really where we do kind of the hard investigation and get the essential information that is going to define the context of your restoration project and this is very very detailed there's a whole lot of like climactic data geological data that there is a section for each one of these things but the more of this information that you can fill out the better idea not only that you'll have but that will be easy to share with other people who are working on it to understand the context and why specific design criteria or design decisions are made and this will give me also a reference as I work with you individually so that you don't have to tell me all of this stuff or that I don't have to make a site visit I can reference all of this information that you gather and help to assess some of the design decisions and this to your context so everything from elevation and annual rainfall will be building sector maps everything all of the resources it's really just doing an inventory of everything that you have to work with and this information is really important to work through I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with the scale of permanence if you're not it's something that I'll be creating more content on to help you guide you through it's essentially a list of things that are important to any given piece of land and are listed in order of what you cannot affect to the things that are the easiest to effect and by working through these in in order you can address the priorities because as you you tackle some of the issues at the higher end of the list it becomes a lot easier to affect ones lower down on the list so more weather things storm timing frequency and direction defining microclimates altitude and latitude it's going to take you a long time to work through this but as we build this document you'll have much much better and more accurate information to make design decisions from so I'll just skip through this everybody can work through it at their own pace as we build our maps I'll start to share some online resources and many of you have of the few that I've spoken to already have maps developed some of them of varying detail but as we build these maps this is what will be putting our designs on to that people can see that people can read from the landscape will be dividing things up into zones and each different area will correspond with actions and portions of the project to be implemented access things like existing roads entrances paths these are all things that correspond with the I'm blanking on the name right now the scale of permanence the scale of permanent now building a database of plants and animals on your site is useful for a whole lot of reasons if you're early in the restoration process instead of going through all the hassle of doing tons and tons of soil analysis to to get an idea of the health of your soil you can shortcut that quite a bit by taking a look at the existing vegetation even if you have very very little vegetation and you're in a fairly desertified site the little bits of vegetation that are growing will give you a lot of indication as to the health of your soil its level of compaction its level of hydration because different plants are indicators those with long tap roots that go deep into soil are an indicator of compaction and they go deep down to mine for minerals and to open up the soil if your soil is very very loose you'll get plants that have more of a netting type of root system that holds soil in place so that it's less likely to erode different plants and again it's going to be different for everybody's site will give indications of nutrient levels of hydration and so as much information as you can gather from the existing species on your site you'll be able to shortcut a lot of the soil tests which can be time consuming and sometimes expensive depending on how detailed you want to get it's also very good to have this as a reference as you start to progress in your project because if in the beginning you have very little vegetation or very little wildlife you'll be able to see a mark difference that are fantastic indicators for the health of your site as your project matures and you bring more life on it's probably the most striking way of gauging the progress of what your actions are having on the site here domesticated animals especially if you're doing any kind of production as far as farm goods waterfowl and native birds aquaculture if there are swamps or wetlands present this is going to be different for everybody and if these if these categories don't apply to you you can leave them blank but these will apply to most people in different contexts so like here I put in wild boars deer and rodents are some of the most common wildlife that I have around me here in Spain buildings and infrastructure now this is much more important to indicate on your map once you have your map make sure to draw in the existing infrastructure and if you're able to if you have access to the information where the utility lines run this is not only important to figure out where you can access things like electrical wires or irrigation tubing to distribute water to different places but it's also really important to know where it is if you start digging because you don't want to damage these things having a map of where they are as important geology and soil soil types soil tests all of this is going to be specific and many of you already have this information if you already have this information either plugging it in here or putting a little link to perhaps a document that you can upload online whichever is easiest for you you don't have to write everything in here but there should be some sort of digital reference that other people can check drainage and absorption of their soil I have another document if anybody is interested on doing soil tests the kind that you don't have to set in send into a laboratory and I'll work with some of the team members with ERC to make that available in one of their formats so let me know if you guys are interested in seeing that if you're at the point where you want to do soil tests again depending on where you are it's going to be important to take a look at okay cool we have some interest in the soil test it's going to be important to know when your your frost dates are this corresponds to what's called a hardiness zone and where I'm here I'm in hardiness so between zone 10 9 and 8 there's a little band of 9 that I'm in directly but it's also worth keeping in mind that the world is warming and it's not warming evenly but it is kind of creating fluctuations in the climate classifications and so getting up-to-date information on this is important climate zones have in general moved away from the equator respectively something like 30 miles in the last 10 years and so you if you're working with outdated information you might be able to grow or not be able to grow a whole list of things that you know only a couple of decades ago were common in your area and so getting up-to-date information on frost times and frost dates in your area is important sorry no go ahead here could you elaborate on the the like climate zones because I was always under the impression that these were like sort of like Western or the American type like zones which like was kind of confusing to me because like the concept of frost is really not applicable everything I've read before kind of is like in that part of the world so I wasn't really sure how to adapt it to sure yeah well you being in Thailand you don't have frost dates I believe you're in either climate zone 11 I think you're in climate zone 11 if I'm not mistaken which is you know the tropical zone but I will share with you a link to a resource of where you can find your hardiness zone anywhere in the world I have that somewhere I'll I'll get to it in a bit thank you yeah no problem but yeah that's really important to know even if you like you said you're in the tropics and you don't get frost knowing what your climate zone is is very important for selecting species so we'll talk another time about a concept called climate analogs which Neil Spackman goes into in detail in the course that's coming up and it's a matter of finding parallel climate zones from different areas of the world to get an idea of what types of plants will do well where you are even if they don't natively grow there and so bringing in species from different parts of the world can be risky but knowing how they perform in what are called analog climates is a good indicator as to how they'll perform where you are now obviously there's differences in things but by comparing climate analogs you can get a much wider option of plants that will do well in your context everybody's still with me here any pressing questions at the moment what do we mean by by assessments of the resources in your community is also really important because pretty much everybody that I've talked to who's doing any kind of ecosystem restoration project is trying to also affect their community positively as well but it's important to know that your community can also be a real force for advancing your project if you learn how to leverage and work with them well too and so getting an idea of the economic and general health of your community and you know this is subjective so you can write whatever you want here but having an idea to reference is the resources in your community to work together with them things like schools hospitals fire departments police departments landfills and dumps those are both resources and detractors depending on how they interact with your site having a good assessment of them is important the market and economy is also important because one of the things that we listed back in our category of needs is having an income I don't know anybody who's going to be able to advance the project very well without some kind of income whether it's monetary or if it's a way of just gathering resources that's all income and the obviously the most common is just bringing in money to advance things and make them go faster and so knowing what the economy and the markets in your community are like can give you an idea of like how much money can you get for farm goods what are people paying for hotel visits or agritourism in your area and through that you can start to make calculations with your business plan for your project as to how you'll start to fund further efforts alright this part of defining your sectors is important all of this information is defined up further in the document and so as you put it together in a map form you'll get an idea usually using the center of your land and doesn't have to be like the physical center it could be the center of activity which in a lot of cases is the house using that as a center and then creating these sort of semi circles to give an idea of where these things are affecting your site so knowing your sun pattern is very important because they'll tell you where the shady and the sunny areas are which is important for knowing where to plant knowing where the prevailing winds are coming from is also important because you want to be able to block those it can really affect plant growth in a lot of areas how noise wildlife pollution all of these things affect your site from different directions and different sectors of land and so this is a really good way of all in one place showing where those things are is everybody still hear me yes yeah we're still yeah yeah alright alright I'll keep moving on and again we're recording this so if it's not coming through well where you are hopefully you'll be able to hear me better on the recording and if not I'll be able to answer any questions on the WhatsApp group to so invisible structures and this is important for gathering information because these are the the boundaries that you have to work with in your site and not being aware of these can cause real big problems I have had it happen on projects of my own where clients that I've worked with we're like okay we're gonna build a house here and then we're gonna put in a building there and okay are you sure you've got permission for it yes yes yes we start breaking ground and then they've had an official come over and be like actually you need a permit to do this or this is not allowed to do in this area so knowing what your regulations what your codes and just general restrictions for what it is that you're trying to do is very important to know from the beginning and this is a good place to write them down and have them for reference as you move forward what kind of wastewater treatment facilities how will new construction and infrastructure affect your property taxes this is more important in some places than others but it's very important to know wherever you are what checks inspections and reviews are you required to have done on your site and within what amount of time and then things like subsidies subsidies grants there are a lot of incentives that come from these invisible structures as well and if you can tap into sources like this this can really help to further your project without having to go out and work for all that same money or again this is very specific to where you might be but there are opportunities to gain subsidy and grant money from all over the world as well international funds and places that offer financial incentives for certain types of work like let's say reforestation or regenerative farming or putting certain parts of your land away for conservation or planting certain endangered species or even taking care of certain endangered animals there is money out there I can't give you a lot of specifics right now it's not really my expertise but there are people on the ERC team who I think know a lot more about this than I do and so that wraps up this document there will be a bunch more documents that we're going to be putting out in months and hopefully years to come but at the at the moment this gives a very very in depth list of information that I use constantly when I work with clients to a good idea their context their resources everything from pictures are having an effect and that are worth either investing in or replicating and this is how we sort of get this information out to more people around the world and help to accelerate these types of so that wraps it up for kind of the summary of this document does any but do we have time for questions Ashley I am you know giving this as much time as it needs so it depends on you and everyone else here as to when you need to go but yeah is is there any I've got time I'm happy to answer questions yeah I think that would be really good does anyone has anyone who's looked through this document before seen specific parts of it and so I'm not sure of you know I'm not sure what that means and they'd like to ask Oliver now can you repeat your question again please because the connection was really bad I'm sorry I said has anyone looked at the design brief and been unsure about certain questions or sections that they would like to clarify now with Oliver I think what Oliver's done has been extremely helpful and presumably we can interrogate him with any of the things we have difficulty with as we go along so I think that's going to be a really helpful way of proceeding if that's okay what how Oliver manages his time is not for me to say so the last part was the last part there movies look if you have any questions if there are any things that you want to discuss with me directly or if you want to keep them direct everyone has access to my information options if there are things that you think that the whole group would benefit from that's why we have the group WhatsApp as well so I think for now that's probably the best way of getting in touch with me directly if you have any specific questions or things that you want to have help working on thank you yeah I think take another look at the document this is probably what you're all planning to do anyway but take a look at it in your own time and then ask questions either in the WhatsApp or Oliver directly I think it would be helpful to ask questions in the WhatsApp because then other people can see the answers and it's a more effective use of of everyone's time I think yeah that's great good idea fantastic well I'm really happy that this has happened and and what I would recommend because so far everyone that I have spoken to and that I've so far spoken to in this group has at least gathered quite a bit of information about their site if not already started on some sort of restoration plan or taken some action already what I would recommend doing is going kind of skimming through the document and getting an idea of the specific questions and categories in there and then just filling out the ones that you already have information for many of you already have a lot of this information but it's important to put it down there so that we all have reference to look at it especially in my case if I'm going to be helping you out directly it's it's so much easier for me to just look through your your answers in this document and we'll be on the same page a lot faster and then maybe take a look from there what you don't have filled out and and just sort of systematically start working through it like okay I know how to find this information even though I don't have it yet or this would be a good question I'll ask Oliver how I would gather this information and then just kind of systematically putting in as much information as you can all of this is going to help in the design and the progress moving forward fantastic is there anything else that anyone would like to discuss now apart from Oliver's dog apparently some questions what do people think of the idea of doing a little introductory message on the whatsapp group for those of us who don't know each other I'm happy to do one as an introduction and I would really like that to happen because I think it will make us feel closer and as we develop and move forward together the idea is that we can help each other with similar issues that arise so knowing more about each other's contexts will will help that to happen so I encourage everyone to send a little video or a voice note of themselves talking about who they are what their project is what they're you know where they're at what stage they're at with it and what they're helping to get from being part of the ERC community that would be really fantastic and I can write those points down in the whatsapp group because I probably won't remember them and yeah I would love that for anybody who can make time to do so and I'll tell you right now I like so the information that I had put in on this document the beginning is because I'm working on acquiring a property just a small one right now where my partner and I are going to be living and so I'm actually planning on using my own system from the perspective of of a client or you know from someone that I help and putting myself through the exact same criteria that I am doing with everyone else from lockdown where I'm at at the moment but when things start to progress I'll give tangible examples of how I'm using this program and this methodology and applying it to my own context as well so in the process hopefully I'll also learn a little bit from your guys perspective though I've done this as well before and if anybody thinks that it'd be useful I'll even try and put out some videos as I start to take steps on the project as well that would be amazing yeah that's really great anyway just letting you know that that's one of the other things I'm going to be working with and hopefully it'll be content that that will be useful to other people as well so is there anything else that we want to say before we go ash or is the rest of it for the WhatsApp group well I'd like to ask one more final question so you remember we had a call a few weeks ago to a month ago to talk about knowledge sharing ideas and one of the things that that came up was that we could share more videos on our YouTube channel so one of the things that I'm really proud of about the ERC is that we're very open and inclusive and transparent and so I think it would be beneficial to have this video on our YouTube channel as a public video for anyone else who's thinking about becoming a camp and wants to get more of an idea of what it involves before they join so I'd just like to hear from you as to whether you'd be comfortable with that yeah I'm more than happy to do that and perhaps we can even start to plan specific like subject oriented videos that tackle things that perhaps we've either heard a lot of questions of from from the camps or things that I've noticed that other people tend to struggle with and we can kind of slowly release a little series on that through through the YouTube page yeah that sounds great that's exactly what I was thinking of as well so if there's anyone that's not comfortable with having this video publicly on our YouTube channel please let me know if you could let me know today and then if I don't hear from you I'll I'll take that as a go-ahead wonderful well thank you so much for coming everyone I feel really happy when I'm with you all it makes me feel very inspired and hopeful for the future likewise as thanks so much for taking the time and setting this up and it's been really great to connect with everybody here so far I look forward to seeing everybody's intro for those that I wasn't able to see on this one great I have a final question which is did Oliver's ear recover well enough by it from being bitten by the goat when she was that old her teeth were like so soft and dull she's precious but she's probably she's getting on two years old now so she's not that little anymore that was an old picture right everyone well we have one for weekends and we will continue to chat on WhatsApp yeah everybody stay healthy stay well and we'll be in touch thank you guys