 And so I would do these purse parties at like, I couldn't even drive, purse parties of knockoff, designer, handpicks. No way! Oh yeah. I mean we do get weird people that come in thinking we're like a sex shop or like a weed store. He was just like, you are gonna waste your life if you are sitting at a desk every day. Four hours later I am just like sobbing about and then I'm like, I guess I'm starting this store. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. This is, I'm so extreme when I throw my fingers like this. Is that Brad Pitt? Yeah, it's like Brad Pitt from 12 Monkeys. This is a show about f***ing up, making mistakes, recovering from those mistakes. We talk to entrepreneurs, we talk to artists, we talk to people with big ideas that run into some roadblocks and find out that there are things that they didn't know how to do. Today we have Kayla from Pipe and Row. It is a clothing store but fancier than that like Clothier, Clothier store in Fremont. I believe that's where it's at and I'm excited to meet her and to make sure that I got that right. When I said Fremont, let's get going. Everybody welcome to the show. I am here with Kayla. You say, oh look, you can look at this one too. Oh, okay. And they're gonna keep it. At the same time that you're doing that. No. Oh, okay. You can do whatever you want while I'm doing it. Okay. Probably what we just did will end up in the show. Okay, yeah. That gives you any indication of what it will feel like. Okay, cool. No. I'm here with Kayla from Pipe and Row. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Tell us more about what you do, about your business, about your store. Yeah. I have a women's clothing store in Fremont. We have online as well. It's wearable, unique clothing and accessories and a attainable price point. Oh, okay. And we really strive to have sustainable brands, independent designers. Yeah. And it's just really things that you want to wear every single day. They're go-to pieces that are like, make your outfit but also you are just, it's so easy to put them on. Yeah, yeah. So our tagline is not your average staple. You can tell that you're better dressed and always better dressed than I will ever be. Thank you. But. You're dressed great. Yeah. Yeah, look. Yeah. I put on a t-shirt. Yeah. I wonder how you got into doing this type of stuff. Yeah. Like how you got into. Yeah. Because it sounds really unique. Well, my parents had craft stores growing up. Oh, that's awesome. So similar to like Michaels. Really? Yeah. So you were going by like craft supplies there? Yes. They went through everything. We did the floral things, scrapbooking, every phase. Yeah. There it was. And I would, I would work in the store my whole, like from little, little, whether it's. You work in a craft store? Yeah. Like pricing candy or different things. Like how young? Like pricing candy. Like I mean like five, six years old. Yeah. And so I think without even my parents really walking me through anything, I just took that all in of buying and selling and, you know, margins to a certain, you know, without a loose. Like in general. Yeah. So my dad would take me to like the candy shows. What do you remember from the candy show? Oh my God. So many samples. What? So many samples. You got to try all of these candy. Yeah. I was, oh, and I was a hoarder. Like I would come home and I would just have bags of it and it'd be under my bed for like years. This is better than Halloween. Yeah. He would take you and you would see that type of stuff. Yeah. And so that was built in. That makes sense. Yeah. And then, so I think my dad was just always on the lookout for buying and selling. He's a super like motorcycle hunting guy and that people think it's so funny that he would sell. From size to craft store. Yeah. And he's like, well, I like buying and selling stuff. So whether that was he, he was buying and selling houses or whatever it was. So yeah, I think that was just kind of ingrained in our household. And I found out about like knock off handbags and I would tell my dad in ninth grade. So my dad knew that I knew what was like popular and what everyone wanted. He would go down to LA and I would tell him, okay, look for this. I'd give him pictures. Look for this. Ask for this guy. And he'd be down there negotiating with a guy. And I would be telling him what to get. And then I would, to my mom's friends, I would do these purse parties at like Fort, I couldn't even drive purse parties. And I would set up in someone's house. Yes. Exactly. Yes. Of knockoff designer handbags. No way. Oh yeah. Wait, did they know they were knockoffs? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yes. Oh yeah. No, no, no. I'm not a con artist. They would go in with them and tell their nail lady and then I'd show up to the nail salon and they'd literally be going through my trunk and just like buying all this stuff. It was crazy. So that starts though, it's still like a fashion thing. Like what the person seems to be kind of thematically. I think we might have a drink. Ooh. Are we ready? Yeah. Yes. Your drink tonight is called the eighth fold. This is so good. Ooh, gorgeous. Is that amazing? Yes. There's eight tenets to Buddhism about living right. The eighth of them is specifically about having rightful unions, rightful connections. Being in tune and linking up with your community and your village and building the village. So this is called the eighth fold. You have rum from Michoacan from just outside of Oahuaca. You have a little bit of maraschino, again coming from a small village just on the other side of the world. And then the maraschino is combined with hyssop, which is a herb that's been used religiously for purification rituals. A little bit of blue violet, cedar, tincture, lime bitters. It's not that complex. No, not at all. I could totally make this at home. Oh yeah. Actually, you're really good. I could. I will. We'll find out after you taste it. All right. All right. Here we go. Which one you want? You'll take that one. I'll take this one. How do you have a preferred way of? Salute. Salute? Okay. Salute. Salute. Okay. Mmm. Mmm. That hits me before it goes in. Yep. Yep. That was really good. Now eventually, so you graduate on from handbags to clothes, but what happens in the middle? So then I started working for Nordstrom when I was 16. Oh wow. And I think that's where I, that's where I was able really to see what people are buying at what price, why they were buying it. The interesting part to me is how people integrate that into their life. Yeah. And also how do you make money off of it? Yeah. And sell it to people. So yeah, I was there in and out of college and all that. It was a great job to have for that. And then I moved to New York, you know, I'm like 22. I'm like, this seems like the coolest thing. Now have you, had you been to New York before? Once. Once. Just like on a family trip type of thing? My mom took me for my 18th birthday. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yep. I just applied for a bunch of jobs. Like. Million internships. Yeah. Did a million different things. You did. Yeah. And that really helped me to figure out what I want to do. I think I figured out a lot of what I didn't want to do. Yeah. I really wanted to be in design. So first you thought you wanted to be in design? Yes. And then I kind of, I did internships at like Kenneth Cole and a few other places. And I just realized that I'm good at interacting with the customer and figuring out what they want and kind of all of that and being away from the customer. That's interesting. I felt like it was somebody else telling me what the customer wanted. Yeah. And I just didn't connect with that. Like the connection bit more on having that dialogue. Yeah. And I think I like pushing the boundaries with people. Yeah. But within, to a certain degree within their comfort zone. Wait. Tell me about what that means. Like you say you like to push. Like if my mom comes in and you're like. Right. So someone's like I only want to wear, this is great. Like I only want to wear skinny jeans. I'm like, okay. I hear you. Yeah. I'll give you some skinny jeans. But try, why don't you try this jeans. It's basically skinny but just straight at the bottom. Yeah. Like it's more modern, more, you know, different than what you have. If they like it, great. But if they're like I love this, but I'm never going to wear it. I'm like, well then don't buy it. Because I want you to be, all the items you get from here are like. I want you to wear them. Yes. And you keep coming back. Because there's those stores you buy stuff from and you're like I love going in there and I buy stuff and I never wear anything. And who wants to keep shopping there? Yeah. I never wanted to have a store. Ever. Well, people would always say, oh, are you going to have your own store? Are you going to have your own line? And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Oh. Like I don't want to work for myself. I don't want to do that. No. Well, what were you doing at the time that people would say like, hey, why don't you go do your own store? Well, just being in fashion. Yeah. Like they just think that's the dream, right? Which I get, but I just knew how hard it was going to be. Yeah. I knew how much work was going to go into it and all of that. And I was just like, oh, I don't know if I'm ready for that. Yeah. Like I saw my parents go through it in the highs and lows and I'm like, I want something stable. Yeah. I was working for my brother's like real estate development company. Yeah. I had just come off working for another designer and it was amazing, but obviously like wasn't going to have the money to like have me work there very long to sustain. Right, right. I was like, okay, this isn't working. It's time to move on. So my brother was like, okay, you can come in, help us out whenever you want. Knew that this was not my thing, you know. Right, right. But I actually started working there and I actually really started to like it. I was like, this is so cool. I'm learning about accounting, learning about all these basic business things in action that I would have never put myself in this situation. Like people who worked there were so great. Yeah. Normal and nice and no one, people weren't having like constant meltdowns. Like I was used to it. I was like, wow, this is so nice. So I had just told my brother, I was like, can I work here full time? And he's like, okay, that's fine, but you need to give me two full years. I don't want any of this like, oh, I found this other thing. Oh, your brother made you commit. Yeah. That's it. He was like, because he knew it wasn't what I really wanted to do. So he's like, fine, you can do it, but you need to be here and commit to this. And I was like, okay, I'm totally in. And he's like, nope, give me the weekend to think about it. And then you can tell me on Monday. Yeah. And I met up with an old high school friend that bought this cafe. And he was like, he told me you want to go drink. So I'm like, sure, whatever, I'll meet up with you. No idea what he was going to ask me or anything. Yeah. So I told him this. And he was just like, you cannot do this. You are going to waste your life if you are sitting at a desk every day. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. And four hours later, I am just like sobbing about. And then I'm like, I guess I'm starting a store. Your business now, you sell sort of designer unique clothing. And, and you were very clear on it not being like, come here, get the one outfit to wear to the Grammys. And then that's right. Whether it exists. Yeah. That was a learning curve for sure. I thought there would be more. I was carrying more things that you would wear to events like weddings or different things. And because people were buying that, but they didn't want to buy that from me. Why wouldn't they want to buy this? Because you're like, I'm trusted. No, I think they were, you know, when you're on a mission to find certain dress for something, you're looking online. You're going to, I don't know where exactly they're going. You have a mission on like what you want it to be. Right. Then you're just going to go find it. Like online or something like that. Right. And we are definitely a destination. We have a couple of shops around us and things, but. But when people get things at your place now, even though it's not a place for weddings. Yes. They definitely can find things for a wedding, but we cater to things that are an everyday wear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really try and think about who, when I look at each item. Yeah. Who is this customer wearing it? Not like, do I have a friend that would wear this? Where are they going? What are they doing? Yeah. I love the example of the sexy lawyer because. I want to be a sexy lawyer. There's tons of, like, where they're like super fashionable pencil skirt with like a super cool trench coat and all of this. So there's lots of brands that make that. And it's like, you look at it and you're like, oh my God, that is amazing. Oh yeah. Someone will totally wear that for work or something. And you really think about it and it's like, I'm in the business of fashion and I'm not even wearing this every day. Or I'm not wearing that. Then why am I selling it? So yeah, why are we selling it? It's named after my niece and nephew, twin niece and nephew. Oh, twins? Yeah, Piper and Rowan. Do you have like pipes? No. I thought about it. I did think about it. We're by the canal here so we could have some oars. Yeah. Well, I guess what type of pipes? I always picturing more like lead pipes. I mean, we do get weird people that come in thinking we're like a sex shop or like a weed store. I don't know what they're thinking but I'm like, all right, yeah, be on your way. Like I don't want to know more information. Come on, honey. We're going to pipe and row. All right. So you start this and it's all this stuff. It's smooth sailing. Everything's good for now. But I know. There you go. Yeah. Give us the f**k up. So when I opened the store, first of all, I didn't know what I was doing at all. Like at all? Like, no. It was an interesting time. It was right when fast fashion, so like Zara, H&M, all of that were at their height. Like all these like cheap turnaround quick, super cheap. And then slow fashion and sustainable sustainability, all of that was becoming cool too. Yeah. Which is definitely something I've always wanted to go into. But I just didn't know how to do that. And I knew people were coming in asking for it, right? And I knew we had a lot of brands that were made in the USA, everything. So I was like, people want this. People want this. And I'd get it in and they're like, I only want to buy stuff that's made in the USA or blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, great. We have this, this, and this. And they'd look at the price tag, which we try and have, I call it attainable pricing. So like under, we try for under $200. A lot of things are like around a hundred. And they'd be like, why is this so expensive and why is this one so cheap? And they'd be like, well, that one's made in China. And this one is made in the USA. And then they'd walk out with the one made in China. When they walked in telling me they only wanted that. A lot of things are going to be made other places at my price point. Right, and I, we try our best to figure out where they're being made and what the situation is and all of that. But yeah, at the time people, now people will spend a little more for that or some kind of only one. But at the time, it's always getting in all this inventory, all this stuff. And I was like, why is everyone asking for this? And I finally just had to come down to like, it makes them feel better to ask about it. And then they still only want to pay whatever the lowest possible thing. But you had to figure that out. Yeah, and I had so much inventory. Assuming one thing and then like, whoa, wait a second. I had more inventory at opening in one year than I do even to this day. I wanted to be something for everyone. Yeah. I was like, why is it like you're like, I wanted to have all sizes and inclusive and blah, blah, blah. Which I would love to have but I just came to, you can't. Or I can't at the scale I'm at and the customer I have and all of that. And it was, I mean, it took me two to three years to get out of that to be not paying for that inventory. My dad also coming from a, he sold, he made so much money on a $1 item. So he kept telling me, you can't sell from an empty basket. You can't sell from an empty basket. So I was like, you're right. We need to have a lot of inventory to be able to sell. But like having more of something doesn't make it sell more. He took it to the candy. Yeah. Like, okay. It sounds like, if I came in, it would be, I would end up having a conversation with somebody. Yeah. We try to make it really inclusive. It's not like I come in, I buy something, I bolt, right? Yes. I want to have an inclusive space for everyone. I like to think that we're really cool. Yeah. And all of that. But also where you're not intimidated. Yeah. And also where you're not just finding stuff that you'll find at Hortstrom or anywhere else. Yeah. So I try and really curate something that's special. Yeah. People. And makes people feel really good. I have another f**k up. Yeah. Not being. Wait, is this f**k up you won't talk about until you've had drinks? Is that what, are we to that point? I don't know. Yes. All right, keep going. I'm so excited. After the first year, and I was like, okay, enough people know, I know I'm not going to be booming in business, but my dream customer was walking in the door, even going and trying on stuff, and still not buying anything. And I was just like, what is the deal? I feel like I know what people want. I know what people are buying. Yeah. And they were buying it just not for me. Oh, wow. And I realized to me a long time to realize that, you know, they don't want to come in and just buy a basic whatever item, unless it's the best basic item there is. They want, they're shopping for something really cool and different when they're coming to a small boutique and a small place and going out of their way. I was getting so mad. I was like, you, I know what you're buying. I know what you want. Why won't you buy it for me? And for a while I was like, you're not, people don't want to support. So they say they want to support small businesses and they won't and blah, blah. And I got, for a little while I really did get really angry. And I was just like, this isn't going to work. I wish I could see you every time somebody walked in and walked out. And then I feel, you know, I'm like, okay, what's in my control? What can I change in this? What are they buying? Yeah. Okay. Go on to that. And it's like having things, the right thing at the right price point. Yeah. Because it's not like people wouldn't spend, like our rain jacket is $300. Yeah. But it is, you'll have it for your whole life. Yeah. You wear it every day. Yeah, timeless. But like something you wear one time. Yeah. They'll probably go buy that from Zara or somewhere else where they wish they would buy it from me. Right. But like at the end of the day. Yeah. They know like this is it. Yeah. Especially in the day of social media, those loud things, I mean, you only want to be photographed in it so many times. What would you recommend to other people that would be interested in starting a business or starting something? Yeah. I mean, I definitely didn't do my research. What did you say? Do research? I think I kind of wanted, in a certain way, I liked the fact that I didn't know some of the stuff so that I could do it my own way because I was like most businesses fail. Yeah. And most things, the way everyone's doing it is not working. Right. And people are not surviving as small businesses. Yeah. So why don't I just do what I feel and what makes sense to me. And I think the biggest thing is figuring out what the gap in the marketplace is and going with that and really focusing on that thing. Yeah. So for me that was, I was like why are all these boutiques carrying the same thing that Nordstrom has? Yeah. So I think really just trusting your gut and listening to your customer and what they want and figuring out who your customer is that might take a while, but really figuring out what they want and what they want from you. Yeah. Thank you for being on the show. Yeah. Thanks for having me. And I am impressed that you can drink and hold your liquor much better than me. I don't know why I'm impressed. Did me, Justin. This is bad news, man. I had a drink and a half in. What's wrong? Shampoo effect. Shampoo effect. All right, let's do that. We'll do that as a cheers on the way out, right? Yes. Shampoo effect. Are you ready? Shampoo effect. Shampoo effect. All right. Kayla, thank you for being on the show. And if you like what you saw and you want to see more people like Kayla, come on and teach you how to do things, then subscribe. I think there's a bell or something that you can ring and subscribe. And if you have your own, **** up that you want to talk about, go to fups.com. We'd love to have you on the show.