 Hello everyone good to see you all here and thanks for joining us. Hope it's not too chilly I have to stand up because I can't otherwise I can't see a Christian I'll sit down in a sec If we had been meeting Two three months ago. I think this would be one of those really depressing Davos sessions Because inflation was on a tear Ukraine war was was raging It was it felt as if we were Europe was going into a deep recession The good news is that we're not we're not there I am generally a lot more optimistic Much to Putin's dismay Europe is not likely to suffer more than more than Russia not in the medium term not in the long term and and Not even in the short term gas prices are back to pre-war levels inflation seems to have peaked Although I'm sure we were we will hear a lot more about core inflation in this session The question to me and the one one that I will be also putting to the panel is What are the medium term prospects? Because there are still very big challenges whether it's from pressure from the US on IRA on decoupling from China still have tight labor markets and Energy costs that are not going back to where to where they used to be so I couldn't have hoped for a better panel Christine Lagarde president of the European Central Bank Valdez Dombrovsky's European Trade Commissioner Andrei Blankovich Prime Minister of Croatia Mark Rutte, of course, Prime Minister of the Netherlands and Christian suing CEO of Deutsche Bank Mrs. Lagarde, I'm going to start with you to give us a bit of an overview of your expectations for this year and More specifically, what do you need to see to be more confident that we are on the right trajectory when it comes to Inflation, what are you looking at? Well, first of all, I look first of all good morning to everyone and thank you for being being here but the first thing that we look at is the activity and the activity on a global basis the activity at the euro area level and I agree with you that the news have become much more positive in the last few weeks and You know the rhetoric has moved from Recession in Q3 Q4 and possibly plus to recession in Q4 and Q1 of 23 to now this small contraction and With leaders of some of the major players in Europe actually arguing that there will be no recession I think the case made by Olaf Schultz On Germany a couple of days ago was was explicit We look at that and what we are seeing at the moment is clearly an activity that is declining compared with an excellent 2022 where growth was 3.4 to a growth projections that we have for 23 of 0.5, so it's not a Brilliant year, but it is a lot better than what we had feared so we start with that and then of course our focus is Inflation I'll come to that in a second But I'd like to point out one other factor which we look at which is critically important for our assessment of inflation expectations and inflation evolution and that is the job market and the job market in Europe has Never been as vibrant as it is now the unemployment number is rock bottom compared with what we've had in the last 20 years and The participation rate which matters as well is also at a very very high level and that is pretty much homogeneous Throughout the euro area Now you asked me about inflation and inflation is obviously the prime mission and the primary objective of DCB because our mission is to procure price stability without which growth investment decisions by economic actors Is going to be ampered so on inflation? We have way too high numbers I know that a lot of journalists made a big fuss about the fact that headline numbers had gone down Most recently and you also mentioned yourself that we have to look at core inflation, which is certainly critically important so we look at all the composition of inflation from headline to core to sticky to stripped out all sorts of Elements and inflation by all accounts, however, you look at it is way too high And our determination at the ECB is to bring it back to 2% In a timely manner and taking all the measures that we have to take in order to do that Which is why we have already increased interest rates by 250 basis points And and we shall stay the course until such time when we have moved into restrictive territory for long enough So that we can return inflation to the percent in a timely manner. Do you think it is becoming entrenched? What you need to do for that is What we look what we do is we look very carefully at inflation Expectations because that that's a key driver and we are not seeing inflation expectations De-anchoring in any significant way it it varies a little bit around to we look at surveys We look at market expectations. We try to measure in all shapes and forms, but inflation expectations Are not de-anchoring and what we have to avoid is that they be at risk of de-anchoring When we when we think about gross We hear a lot of Investors worried that there could be that you could tighten the ECB could tighten too much Especially if as expected inflation sort of drops quite precipitously to let's say let's say 4% And that you know, I'm sure everyone here has heard that that was the this magic 4% that everyone think things we're gonna get to Fairly fairly quickly. Does anyone on the panel worry about? Overtightening Christian I see you I'm not worried. I mean Because first of all I have to say that I think the ECB has done Exactly the right thing since the last summer and I can only encourage and I'm appreciating the comments from Christine That she is clearly saying we are staying the course Because I think the worst what can happen is that we bring inflation not under control Inflation is the thing which is a poison for the economy and while I agree to all the comments that there is more Optimism in the economy the underlying problems, which we have in Europe high inflation Also certain other structure reforms are not gone And if we come into the situation that we potentially get inflation a bit down But over time we never get control of it then we come into the spiral that we also from other participants in the economies Like the unions we will get a Different answer because I think they have remained very calm. They have played in my view Together with the corporates and with all the participants a game that we can over time Tame now the inflation. So I think this consequent answer is exactly the right thing Then there was one more worry I have and that is You know if China and this is again one of the reasons why the economy is now looking a bit a bit better But we also need to watch what kind of impact the opening of China has on our inflation And therefore it is so important that we keep the consequent line Christine just laid out and I think that is more important because if we get that under control I'm absolutely convinced that Europe can grow In the medium and long term and that's the most important clearly Inflation has also eased a bit because of Chinese demand because Chinese demand especially for energy was depressed and China is definitely reopening but Commissioner, I just I wanted to get you on Fiscal policy you have warned that fiscal and monetary policy have to go in the same direction Which of course is not the case in in some countries Can governments start reducing their budget deficits and move to a stricter fiscal policy? And is that what you what you really want to see right now? Well indeed if we want to respond to current economic Circumstances which is in any case slowing growth and high inflation We need to have consistent macroeconomic policy mix. So there needs to be indeed consistency between monitor policy and fiscal policies. They cannot work at cross purposes that's why Our recommendation as European Commission's recommendation for this year is to have a broadly natural fiscal stance in the euro area and Where we see possibilities to bring down a budget deficit is related to How well the support measures for Energy for households and businesses are targeted Because around 70% of the support measures are not targeted. So it's amounts to Substantial fiscal stimulus, but it's actually feeds into inflation. It does not Send the price signal does not help reduce energy demand and thus Does not help also to reduce energy Prices so you want the second phase of the support to be a lot more targeted to work Yes, and we have concretely also came with a concrete model Which we propose to member states so called to tear pricing systems that up to certain consumption level consumers receive subsidized price and about this consumption level paying the market price. So basically having this intention also to reduce on the Consumption side. So that is one thing that we need consistent policy mix another of course We need to do also targeted measures to get energy prices down Because that That issue will remain with us. We We are having elevated Energy crisis are forecast as well fossil fuel for ISIS will stay elevated for a for a single time We had seen lots of volatility. So On one hand, we have done lots of also market intervention measures to deal with those specific issues On another hand, we are accelerating our green transition So moving faster towards renewables Towards energy efficiency measures, but that of course means that we need to sustain also this investment for those purposes and that's where our recovery and resilience facility comes in and this year should be the Peak year for disbursements of recovery and resilience facilities. That's where our repower EU plants come in But what I also wanted to emphasize on the energy side We also need to continue to deal with energy security of supply issues because Yes, this winter we have plenty of gas in the storage so we can be confident will go through the winter But this winter we still have lots of Russian gas in our storage This was pumped in the first half of the last year and this is not going to be the case next winter So we'll still how to seek yet? substantial additional gas supplies from other Providers also for the next Winter and that's in a context as you mentioned where China's economy is opening up and also maybe seeking more gas Supplies so there are still challenges ahead of us A Prime Minister I see you nodding. Is it are you worried about storage because you could get a combination of a you know storage facilities that are not full Harsher winter because even though the weather here has been miserable actually we've had a mild we're having a mild winter and China demand coming back I'm not overly worried But we have to stay concentrated on this issue and it has to do with Refill the storage capacity. We also need to make sure that we we are doubling in my country the LNG Imports Germany is massively building these floating LNG terminals And at the same time, of course, we have to work on the energy transition for the longer term No, my worry is more on the previous subject and that is inflation in combination with low longer-term growth Prospects for Europe and I strongly believe you have to do a few things at the same time We have to bring down government borrowing It's still too high in Italy and France and other countries or in our big economies And that is really hampering long-term growth and in the short term We had to spend hundreds of billions as you are also in Netherlands to support household incomes low income On lower incomes the middle incomes logically. Otherwise, you would have big issues with people not being able to Pay for the energy prices and energy bills, but longer term. This is not sustainable So they happen to become more targeted and for the shorter term somehow we need to offset those extra spending With savings where we can find them or extra economic growth opportunities Because otherwise it could fuel inflation in itself So for the longer term for me, it means bringing down government borrowing It's crucial in all of the European Union, but particularly in some of the big economies Whilst at the same time, and this is particularly difficult Put in place the necessary structural reforms particularly in the pension sectors When you look at Italy and France and some other countries they are spending 10 to 15 percent of GDP on pensions And and that money is gone. I mean it's fantastic, of course that you can do that But in the Netherlands we are spending 5 percent on pensions So that gives you a 10 percent extra space to invest in in education In innovation or just to lower taxation and longer term that is not sustainable now I'm happy that the French have now decided to to move on the pension issue My sister was just retiring at age 68 in France I can retire at age 64 by 2030, but at least that step is now being taken and still you will see that society in France Yeah, now storm the alley jade to it because they do not agree Let's not be happy about it. It might be a bit too early to be congratulating the French No, exactly, but we also need to message I believe collectively that this is crucial Because we do not want Europe to become a sort of museum where you go to because of the beautiful cities It has to be the place of growth, of innovation, of industry-based and Government borrowing under control, structural reforms in place is to risk recipe for this And I'm extremely happy with this commissioner because this is exactly the recipe is following Lots to come back to Prime Minister Plenkovich. Well, congratulations. You are You've just passed a huge milestone. You've joined the Euro How's that going for you? The feeling is very good. I have to admit it was an exercise of a six years long and very well accompanied reforms Internally and also with the whole dialogue that we had with the Commission with the ECB With the Eurogroup and it was a great success. I think the main frame I would say that the punchline is that Croatia is less exposed and better protected in the crisis being a member of the Eurozone We are also the only country of the European Union ever to have joined both Eurozone and Schengen area on the same day and here I think in particular Mark This was also a long and tough process. So we have transformed our International position literally three weeks ago In terms of preparation Technically what the state was responsible for enough Euro banknotes enough Euro coins Cash machines functioning transfer of payments perfect not a single problem What we witnessed is that some of the economic operators use the occasion of frowning a little bit more than it was Reasonable, but now we are addressing this issue trying to convince them But if you had a government which along all of the other partners in Europe was intervening in terms of state interventionism heavily In order to create a buffer for the externally based crisis a horizontal one Russia's aggression in Ukraine energy crisis food crisis Inflatory pressure we did well We had a very comprehensive package of 3.6 billion euros for our citizens and companies Then we felt that the part of the social responsibility of all the actors actors in our market is to behave adequately and In this respect there is a little bit fine-tuning to be done, but I think it will calm down So our feeling is that Croatia has managed to keep the inflation at ten point eight percent in the last year Which is lower than other countries of the EU who are from Central Eastern Europe and do not wish to join the euro zone yet They have higher one. So I think we did a very good preparation I think we have enough fiscal capacity over the past couple of years to stay to sustain the targeted support of the most vulnerable in this 2023 and we've done a really a great job in terms of regulating prices of electricity gas and also the oil Derivets so with these three elements because energy is the I would say the main source of our problem because if we address this issue All the others will fall in place including the inflation that we have so far done very well And with this stronger position I expect that even though we'll have a lower growth of GDP in 2023 then of course in this year we expect it to be around six percent But still it will not put us in a position where we couldn't cope with all the challenges that I had So I would say a positive conclusion for 2022 and less pessimistic for 2023 on the contrary and the whole atmosphere I've seen here in Davos Seems to be going in that direction that is already a good signal Absolutely, I want to move the discussion now a little bit to two words What what the what Europe needs to bolster its competitiveness? Mrs. Lagarde, I know you have very specific ideas Well, thank you very much And if you want to comment on anything Completely support many of the points that have been made by by colleagues on the panel, but I think as we are by necessity Moving towards this twin transition of digital and green To put it simply and that was perfectly identified in next generation EU and in the Recovery and resilience fund that was set up. So we have to move towards digital and green transition We know that the financing for that is going to be phenomenal According to the Commission numbers if I recall Valdez It's half a trillion dollar that will be needed From now until 2030 in order to move fast in those steps that will give us more independence less vulnerability Towards the foes of this world and if we have to do that we need to take rapid steps Step number one in my view and I know that this is shared by other members of the panel We need to get really serious determined and fast on capital market Union Some of you in this room have heard about capital market Union for the last 10 years I have to but there are a few nuts that need to be cracked in order for capital market Union to actually happen I am less optimistic about banking Union, but capital market Union we can do it if there is enough political Impetus there is goodwill at the Commission to actually do the work that needs to be done It's a single point of entry. It's the bankruptcy law that needs to be slightly Harmonized a bit further a bit better It's tax measures that have now been agreed at the OECD and that need to be ratified Across the euro or the European Union as I'm sure it will before January 24 And more needs to be done in order to have one single Supervisory authority in order to make sure that that capital market Union actually work This is not enough, but it has to be done Why is that because public money will not suffice? Public money will crowd out private investment But public money could certainly be blended with private money in order to finance those significant investment So my suggestion is that we move ahead fast and that we look at all the additional measures that need to be taken If you look for instance at research that was conducted at the ECB Equity is the best way to channel money to those sectors that require innovation It's a simple fact. It's demonstrated by academics and by review Well, guess what if the tax rules are such that you actually encourage debt rather than equity How do we think that we're going to mobilize equity now the Commission has moved? We need to continue that movement in order to encourage equity and there's plenty of money around To go towards those investments that will transition us to a place where we are less vulnerable More independent more sovereign and if CBDC digital euro can accompany the process. I'll be even happier Let me ask you Commissioner about the IRA because you have said that the IRA to drive more European companies closer to China and this and thus run counter to what the US in fact wants to achieve and there's now a task force at the White House There are there are talks Have you have you felt have you seen any progress at Davos because this has been a major topic of discussion Yeah, maybe before I moved to inflation deduction act on our discussions with us just Really express a full support on this work stream on the capital markets union That's indeed a critical for us to move forward both to finance our green and digital transitions and to ensure overall competitiveness of European economy The Europe is very good as regards Startups landscape, but then when it comes to scaling up companies we see many companies going scaling up to us to Asia to other places while primarily US and Asia and Thus, of course, it means that those companies are not Creating all the jobs and economic activities in the EU. So capital market union can be Important part of this answer but to move to the inflation Reduction act indeed when we are discussing green transition, obviously we welcome the aims of the inflation deduction acts that us is Working seriously also on its green transition against climate change but our concern is that it's done in a discriminatory way and in a sense, it's not Helping to build Transatlantic value chains on the green transition, but rather actually severing those value chains so That's why we are indeed engaged at different levels with us and just earlier this week. I had a Discussions on this with US trade representative Catherine Tyne Brussels Well, and that's why we have this also EU US joint task force which is deals with this issue we have I would say halfway satisfactory solutions on Clean vehicles tax credits, but there are many other areas which you need to address on some areas There are some openings from the US side. So We continue to work. We know that further Kind of delegated acts coming from the inflation Reduction act will be prepared by March. So how we still have a bit of a time So we'll have to see how far we will be able to go in terms of addressing our concerns and You think there is an acknowledgement now in the US that they they said They decided on the IRA without regards to because this was an American, you know, I mean, I heard the senators say We never we didn't think for a second about Europe. This was not about Europe And so you're all having now to explain the impact and the consequences Well, you know, I Would not See just like an omission, you know, if it was omission it was probably easier to correct But we all know that also President Biden was campaigning on buy American Yeah, and this is some kind of manifestation of buy American So I think also through this engagement will be able to solve a part of our problems It probably will not be able to Solve all of our problems and for example some of the senators like Zenderman chin already is In a sense saying that he sees also this solution on clean vehicles tax credits as a loop So by no means we can interpret it as an omission. So But Okay, as I said, there are some openings also President Biden himself said the that yes inflation deduction act is Not meant to exclude partners like European Union. So we're trying to build on this and seeing how it materializes in concrete decisions and how the Most discriminatory aspects most negative aspects of inflation deduction act can be addressed Christian, I know you want to to come in probably on capital markets Union But I wanted to also just raise the broader question of we are in a in in a phase now of De-globalization or at least constraints on on globalization and that has ramifications For for European growth and I'd be very interested Prime Minister Rota also from from you To hear what how do you deal with this because you have a specific case for example with semiconductors? Yeah, we have to deal of course with Bose issues inflation reduction act It's it's funny. We constantly were beating the Americans. You're not doing enough and now the implement legislation Which will close to get with the Paris agreement and they were saying no, but not in this way It's a bit silly and And we should we have a bit more self-confidence So I hear some forces in Europe saying we should get rid of the state aid rules Well, that will mean the end of the internal market and there are some saying we need more European funding Well, there's so much state aid rules are going to be loosened from what I heard Targeted and surgical that's okay, but let's make sure that not some people could now implement their agenda Who want to get rid anyway of most of the state aid rules? And that's one of the reasons why the European Union is so successful in the internal market is so successful And also this whole idea of another common funding project. I'm not for it I mean, we have so much common money in the budget in the Resilience fund which came out of for covid And again also here. I mean my country is investing 35 billion between now and 2030 in the energy transition And and we also have to make sure that we have that space in our budgets at the national level cannot all be done at the European level So I think we can get there and with the Americans. I think it is a mix of Unintended consequences, but I think the Commission is right. We should not be naive Biden has been campaigning on by Americans So there must be some of the element of that But I do believe that they want to to with us Try to solve most of these issues and I know the Commission is working on that and I'm not Really pessimistic that we can get there and on on China. I mean the main issue in Europe is we have no coordinated China policy Yeah, we have never been able to do that and it has also has to do that we do not have a Common foreign policy because in the end at the end of the day the big economies will still conduct their own foreign policy Which I understand But at least we should coordinate better and strategize dialogue on China and on other countries and US has a very clear China strategy, which is not necessarily exactly what we want But I'm not very clear on exactly what do you want because you can't you it's very difficult to balance you know satisfying the Americans and Maintaining trade and commercial relations to the extent that You have them today. So I mean I hear often, you know, we want to You can't have it but you're gonna have to go in one direction or the other But it's not that we have to choose between the US and China We need to have our own policy and our own policy should be first of all that we have the mindset that we want to be a player And not a playing field and there is now without enough coordination on China and other foreign policy issues Is that we become the playing fields and we're not a player and even France Germany Italy Spain The Netherlands we are too small to do it on our own. We have to do it collectively these big issues And on China that means of course we it's it's it's there It's it's one and a half billion people. It is an economy which now had the sluggiest growth in 1976 1976 but still it is a huge economy is a huge potential With huge innovation base. So we have to deal with that and at the same time we have legitimate security concerns Long-term we want to make sure that we keep leading edge on for example, semi-con here in Europe and the US We want to make sure that supply chains are not disrupted We ought to make sure that it's not just China or also other countries that we know that some of these high-end Chips can be used in defense In defense system. So we all have to take that into consideration and we are in in dialoguing with Many of our partners including the US how to best deal with that I think we will get to a common Outcome particularly on semi-con, but it's all originates again from a fact that in Europe It is not a commission. This is the Europe the member states not being able to to coordinate sufficiently Prime Minister Plankovich. Do you want to comment on this? Yes when it comes to what is our Main task as as leaders of the government You have the theoretical context you have the institutional framework you have the international Organizations, but you have Electors elections and your own people who need to see that the state which is the closest one that they can see that can help them can actually act and In this last three years, and I said this last year at the panel The only element which made the social cohesion to be kept properly was the state intervention is State interventionism and people recognize that there was no other actor who could replace the state And that's why the efforts which we are doing now after prolonged covid After Russia's aggression to Ukraine energy crisis food crisis inflation Of course that we need to be more flexible when it comes to state aid rules We can't pretend that everything is normal because it's not and We need to find measures which are adequate to be Anticyclical of what Christine is doing by increasing the interest rate, but we need to be able to Have a targeted Subsidies to our companies and citizens that they can go through the period for which they're not guilty And they cannot solve it themselves, especially smaller economies what mark has said about the EU's policy or the EU member states policy vis-a-vis China There were moments when smaller countries were let's say Being put to test why do you have this dialogue China plus 16 17 some countries have left and then you look at the trade Every single day the European Union trades one billion one billion with China The entire Croatian straight with China is only one day of the EU straight with China And when we look at the numbers you see that everybody's at the end of the day pragmatic There is a big difference between China and Russia what Russia has done to Ukraine I don't see with all my background of being a former diplomat and someone that has spent a lot of time in foreign policy I don't see the parallel threat. I see a specific global context for the America But I don't I don't see a similar parallel threat that will endanger our economy our way of a way of life and our security And this is where the specific View with China comes from all of us together, and I think this is important to understand There is no total alignment Immediately as a reflex there is a pragmatic approach where if we are together, of course We are more influential if we are fragmented the one who is bigger stronger will have a better ending the negotiations It's like in every single walk of life that we can imagine. I wonder whether The US administration actually Accepts this this argument. I mean, I you know, I understand what you're saying and I hear it a lot in Europe But I wonder whether the US administration actually appreciates That position I think they want I think they want you I think they want you they would like it to be more aggressive But but still I mean the European Union is the biggest internal market in world history And the collect and and the added up of the European internal markets bigger than the US So it's not that we have to constantly please them We do have security concerns the US is security concerns and and at all can hurry the Germans would say so looking as other into the eye without Presenting yourself as a sort of junior partner. We can get there. I'm absolutely convinced the Americans want that also I mean, it's also in their interest that this part of the world stays successful and and prosperous given all the In balances in the world and all the ripple effects of conflicts elsewhere So there's absolutely no agenda. I'm convinced in the US to to harm us But they have security concerns. We have our concerns and we have to somehow Strategize to get to an outcome, but I think we can get there and we if I can just add one thing We are in a very different place Europe is the first trading partner of 80 countries in the world Yeah, US is first trading partner of 20 countries in the world. So we are in a different place Christian No, I I wanted to make two comments number one, you know, it's so pleasing for me from a private industry to hear that central bank had Commissioner Prime Ministers are all in favor of capital markets union The only question I have is I've been on the board of Deutsche Bank since 2015. Why is why don't we do any progress? And therefore, I think this attitude which is here is exactly that I would even say the capital markets union is the cheapest Booster to the economy we have in Europe and I would even go a step further Without the capital markets union the green deal will not happen. We have two fantastic companies here I just saw from the German corporate industries. I tell you they have so much investments to do in order to do green transition You mentioned the 500 billion that is the net investment per year. We have to do in Europe Now compare the 500 billion to the 100 billion defense extra budget Germany did or to the 200 billion It's impossible to do that why a public finances It's impossible that we can do it by a bank balance sheets It can only done with private with the capital markets union now The second part of that goes very much to the future if you have a capital markets union All our concerns about the venture capital market will also decrease because the more liquidity you get in You also get venture capital into this market and that is the next generation where we have to invest it So the one thing is to transition into green and digital But if we think about the industries which will be predominantly there in 15 20 25 years We need venture capital right now these guys will not come without the capital markets union and thirdly One more sentence to that. I know it will take time Hopefully it will take less than the six years application for the euro from now on because we are really running the clock now But on the way there we can already deal with less regulation for instance on Secularization less regulations when it comes to ESG. I'm all in favor for one taxonomy But let's make sure that mid cap companies in Germany in whatever industry don't have to go through 7,000 of pages of ESG routes They won't get that and the backbone of that economy is mid cap So the middle step to capital markets union is also there where it's necessary without Without compromising on safety and stability and I'm all in favor that let's review regulation I'm also in favor of less regulation Let I know there are a few people who want to come in Marine Just shout or I think there's a mic coming Times a question for president Lagarde just in defense of some of my colleagues You said that journalists are making a big fuss about falls in headline inflation markets seem to be consistently also underpricing your ability to Stick with it as you were why are you failing to convince them? And is that actually a bigger problem for your credibility than looking at inflation expectations, etc? I would invite them to revise their position. I think they would be well advised doing so There's a question over there and then yeah, we've got a few minutes. Hello. My name is at a slough I came from Ukraine and I'm also proud alumni of Maastricht University So first of all when you speak about your being gross We need to remember there is a war in the east of Europe in my country But that's a war for all of us. That's our war for everybody sitting here And I can currently imagine sustainable growth of Europe if we don't succeed in Ukraine Second point probably the saddest part of my life is morning now Every time I open social media I see bad news yesterday a friend of mine died in a helicopter crash Earlier this week we had a bombing of civilian building And I just don't want to tell how many kids died because of that So the last point is please help us help me and other 40 million Ukrainians Not to experience this that's unbearable and I do ask all of you to Continue and accelerate support financial support. We need tanks. Mr. Prime Minister We need weapons to end this war and then to be part of global and European family. Thank you Thank you for this Intervention very very important points and I thought this would be one session where we don't talk about tanks, but It is a very important issue that is very much on everybody's mind. Please go ahead. Yeah I wanted to briefly come on coming on this because Indeed also when we are talking about European economy is the best way to deal with Economic consequences of the war is to stop the war and that's why we need to stay the course We need to continue put pressure on Russia as aggressor state and we need to provide all necessary Support to Ukraine. So I fully agree with this On financial support. We have agreed on 18 billion euros Microfinancial assistance plus package for this year This week we disbursed 3 billion euros and will ensure a stable funding flow for Ukraine throughout the year And this covers substantial part of the Ukraine's financing need for this Year, of course, I expect other international donors to do their part on military supplies Obviously, it's it's a must because if you allow Russia to make gains this war will only spread. So here really Ukraine is not fighting only for itself It's fighting towards the whole Democratic world and for the entire European security architecture and it must have all our Support will from EU for a first time in history. We are providing military Financial support also for military equipment through our European peace facility We are mobilized 3.1 billion euros for this to help finance also member states supplies To Ukraine well, I completely agree and we can learn from Munich 38 What happens if you let an aggressor unchallenged it won't stop at Ukraine So our values are at stake here, but also our collective security So it is crucial that Putin loses and the Ukrainians win Win this war and that means including all the military stuff We can get to you the Netherlands is again placing two and a half billion for this year to help Ukraine through the war effort And we will continue doing what is necessary because your fight is also our fight And I feel this across Europe including the United States and more and more also the global South Coming on board Now at least we have over 140 countries support in the UN resolution Against the Russian aggression and collectively we have to build on that and my simple argument always is this is colonization and In Africa they are just coming out of colonization. So it's also their fight. You are fighting and you're not alone That's what I wanted to tell you and what happened in the NEPRO and yesterday was the helicopter crash is extremely sad and only Makes our resolve stronger to make sure that Sudensky and his team and all Ukrainian people will win this If I may just add one point to just to assure you Croatia was also a victim of aggression 30 years ago If I compare the European Union foreign policy of the time and today This is not 30 years. This is 30,000 years change We were under the United Nations arms embargo, and you have all the solidarity nine rounds and nine packages of sanctions incredible political unity literally almost without a crack and Continuous and increased dynamics in Delivering military aid and weapons for Ukraine to defend itself and to defend defend the values and freedom And we will not as to the extended Netherlands can do but Croatia will continue to support you as we have done so far I'm afraid we have run out of time, so I'm gonna have to wrap this up I will leave you with Two hopes one is when we meet again next year that the war in Ukraine will be Over with Ukraine having won and the other is that we will be celebrating some progress on capital markets union. Yes Thanks