 All right, we are live. Welcome to Pure Dog Talks, live at five. I am your host, Laura Reeves, and I am so excited to have you guys all join us. So while everybody's hopping on, I've got a couple of super, super cool announcements in case you haven't heard, like I don't know how you couldn't, but in case you haven't. Last month, we launched a new exclusive perk for our patrons. Pure pep talk is a weekly text message with an upbeat, fun educational tidbit. And you can sign up for the patrons group and the pep talk messages for as little as $5 a month. Okay, now currently Natalie's yelling at me for telling you that, but I'm saying it. I mean, that's less than a frappa hui at your favorite coffee stand, right? For a whole month. And you get a lot of other stuff that goes with that patrons access. We streamlined a lot of the offerings for the patrons, made a new patrons group, and we've grown our existing all access patrons group to a community network of judges, readers, experts, exhibitors, all with the same goal. Your passion is our purpose. Next up, if you haven't had a chance to check out the ebook, audio book, download offering, how to stack your dog is part of it, the link in the chat will take you there. A great option to share with your puppy buyers, your friends that are looking for a well-bred, purebred dog, et cetera. And oh, yeah, yeah, PPS, swag, new items just released on the swag store. Link in the comments so you can wow your friends at your next event. So summer's over, we're moving on, we're in October. It's Love the Breeds Month here at Pure Dog Talk. And today we're sharing some of our favorite breeds. Listeners submitted their suggestions on the Facebook page and the choices from the audience requests were, drumroll please, American Hairless Terriers, Berger Blanc Suisse, White Shepherds, Ibethan Hounds, Miniature Pinteresters, and Tibetan Terriers. So, quick question, pop quiz. Do you know what, quote, the dog should stand well down on its pads means exactly and which breed it might apply to. Okay, let's get started. All right, we have first the American Hairless Terrier, Emily Rose Cunningham submitted the American Hairless Terrier. Fun fact that Emily provided, American Hairless Terriers are the only recessive hairless dog breed, but they also come in a coated variety. I've actually seen both, so FYI. The American Hairless Terrier is, according to the breed standard, a small to medium sized, smoothly muscled, and active terrier. Ancestors of the breed were bred to hunt rats and other vermin. The lack of coat on the hairless variety of the American Hairless Terrier renders them unsuited for most hunting activities, yeah. They have, however, retained a strong hunting instinct and excel in many other activities and sports. The breed is energetic, alert, curious, and intelligent. Given early socialization and training, they excel as companions, displaying great affection for their owners and family. American Hairless Terriers shouldn't not be sparred during confirmation judging. Okay, you guys, so this is a small breed. You're maybe familiar with Chinese Crestids that come in a hairless variety that has a mane. You might be familiar with the Sholo Exquently that comes in three different size varieties. We've had Sholos on the podcast previously, but the American Hairless Terrier, ideal height, 12 to 16 inches, small dog, right? Medium bone, not heavy or coarse. The expression is alert, curious, and intelligent. They come in a variety of colors and as mentioned in the introduction, they also come in a coated variety. Their disqualifications are hanging ears, a bobtail or docked tail on the hairless variety, and in the coated variety, a wire broken or long coat. Also, merle and albino are disqualifications. So having worked with someone who showed American Hairless Terriers, I've had my literally hands on them. The skin is very soft, very warm to the touch. They are sort of that heating pad of dogs. In the hairless variety, according to the standard, the hairless puppies are born with a soft vestigial down known as the birth coat. And this generally covers the body, but diminishes over time and puppies should be completely hairless by approximately eight to 10 weeks of age. A mature hairless dog should be free of hair with the exception of whiskers and guard hairs on the eyebrows and muzzle. So there you go. Very, very cool information about a breed that many people don't know very much about, the American Hairless Terrier. Next up is the Berger Blanc Suisse and we will have a photo of that available. Hopefully, shortly. There we go. So according to our people who actually submitted these breeds, this was submitted by Eli Sandberg and the Berger Blanc Suisse is an FCI breed, White Swiss Shepherd in the United Count Club, UKC here in the States. It's known as the White Shepherd. The fun fact that Eli submitted, the White Swiss Shepherd originates from the German Shepherd dog. For almost a century, there was little discerning between the German Shepherd and the White Shepherd. Then in the 1930s, the white colored dog was removed from the Shepherd breeding and almost became extinct. By the 1960s, the White Shepherd had made a comeback and in the US and Canada, it was distinguished as a separate breed. In the early 1970s, some of these dogs were sent to Switzerland where they prospered and multiplied. The new White Swiss Shepherd breed was added to the Swiss study book in 1991 and in 2017, the Kennel Club of the United Kingdom officially recognized the breed as well. So now if we go to the FCI standard for the breed, it tells us that in the USA and Canada, the White Shepherd dogs have gradually become to be accepted as a distinct breed. This is the FCI standard, you guys. There's no AKC standard currently for the breed. The first dogs of this breed were imported to Switzerland in the early 70s. The American male Lobo, welped on 5th of March, 1966, can be considered as the progenitor of the breed in Switzerland. The descendants of this male, registered with the Swiss study book and other White Shepherd dogs imported from the USA and Canada, gradually multiplied. There now exists a big number of purebred over several generations. These dogs have been registered as a new breed in the appendix of the Swiss study book since June of 1991. Their general appearance is described as a powerful, well-muscled, medium-sized, White Shepherd dog with erect ears, double coat, which is either of medium length or long, elongated shape, medium-sized bone, and elegant, harmonious outline. It's a rectangular breed that is lively and balanced, enjoys action, attentive with good ability to be trained. They are friendly and discreet, high social competence and devoted to his owner. I like high social competence. That's a great phrase. Never afraid or aggressive without provocation, joyful and easy to teach capability, has capability for all-round education. So that is the Berger Blanc Swiss, also described as, I'm trying to get to a size. You guys, give me half a second. Here we go. Oh, it's in centimeters. I don't know, 58 to 66 centimeters for males, 53 to 61 centimeters for females. Somebody out there that does metrics helped me out. And they are disqualified for being aggressive or overly shy, having high anxiety or having blue eyes. So they should also have dark pigment on their nose and irons, so very, very interesting breed. Let's see if I've got somebody in the chat that's gonna tell me, Barger. Barger, you're saying Barger, Cindy, rather than Berger. Okay. Barger, Blanc Swiss. A, Blanc Swiss. Thank you, Cindy. Our next breed up is going to be, I believe, the Ibethan Hound. Is that our next breed up? I think it is. This, the Ibethan Hound was submitted for consideration by Mackenzie Ferguson. And for a fun fact, she added that they aren't true sight hounds. And if you guys listened to the podcast with my friend, Whippet Breeder, Bo Binkston, you'll remember he agrees with that. And this, okay, so 65 centimeters is 25 inches for people wondering about the size of the Barger, Blanc Swiss. I've been corrected on my pronunciation. Thank you all. Yeah, I thought it was Barger. Okay, Barger, very good. So moving on, Ibethan Hound. This dog right here is my own personal dog. This was Keeper when they said they wanted to feature Ibethan Hounds. I absolutely jumped at the opportunity. Ibethan Hounds come in two coat varieties. This is the wire coated variety. So in addition, that's an additional fun fact. Many people are used to seeing only the smooth coated Ibethan Hound. This is a wire coated Ibethan Hound. The Ibethan Hound was developed on the Iberian Peninsula in Spain. They are a rabbit hunting dog from the standard. It says they are a hunting dog whose quarry is primarily rabbits. This ancient hound was bred for thousands of years with function being of prime importance. Live and racy, the Ibethan possesses a deer-like elegance combined with the power of a hunter. Strong without appearing heavily muscled, the Ibethan Hound is a hound of moderation. With the exception of the ears, he should not appear extreme or exaggerated. In the field, the Ibethan Hound is as fast as top coursing breeds and without equal in agility. High jumping and broad jumping ability. He is able to spring to great heights from a stand still. And trust me when I tell you, this is entirely true. That dog keeper could clear a 48 inch X-Pen from a standing position. Just boing. They also have a fabulously unique hunting style. They sproing into the air and you can see their little ears working when they're hunting. Their ears are how they're hunting, not so much with their nose. They're hearing the game in the grasses or their cover and then when their ears work like little radar, they jump in the air and they pounce and that flushes the game. It is the absolutely coolest thing to watch. There are videos out there that are available to watch them do it. Having watched it myself live in my own backpatic, I'm telling you, there is not much cooler than watching Ibethan Hound hunt. They, the deer-like quality is very specific as is the movement. They talk about, okay, from the standard, an efficient light and graceful single tracking movement, a suspended trot with joint flexion when viewed from the side. The Ibethan Hound exhibits smooth reach in the front, balance drive, giving the appearance of skimming over the ground. And this is absolutely 100% accurate. When you see a really good moving Ibethan Hound, they just look like they're not touching the ground. And when it talks about joint flexion, it's very important from the judge's education perspective, they talk about this. The joint flexion in an Ibethan Hound is not hackney, should never be hackney. It's just simply that there is some motion at the pass turn when the dog is moving. The only disqualification is any color other than white or red and any pigment color, which is not as described. And so in the standard, it describes the red and white dogs, their multiple options for markings. And as I mentioned to coat variety is when it talks about the coat, very specific that they should be untrimmed. Short coated dogs are shortest on the head and ears and longest at the back of the thighs. Wire haired, and this is kind of weird to see if you're unfamiliar with it, wire haired Ibethan Hounds can be from one to three inches in length on all or part of the body with possibly a mustache. Both types of coats are hardened texture, neither coat is preferable to the other unless you're me and I can have a wire coated sighthound in which case, duh. They are absolutely, absolutely a phenomenal breed for anyone who is interested. I just could talk about them forever. I just love them. The first time I ever showed an Ibethan Hound was a smooth bitch in Canada and I didn't know anything about the breed and I was covering it for a friend of mine and the breeder says here, here's the dog. And all you need to know is that 90% of the judging is on their ears. And so I managed to get ears from this dog and won a 500 dog gaze specialty. The first time I ever touched a leash, it was a little crazy. The ears are, this is again very important for the breed. The ears are large, pointed and natural. This is not a cropped breed, docked breed, any of that. On alert, the ears should never droop, bend or crease. The ears are more wide open than just a tall triangle. The inner edge of each ear is not a straight line but has an obtuse angle or curve between the base and tip which gives the ear a slight inside corner. The overall shape resembles an elongated geometric rhomboid with its bottom third cut off. Highly mobile, the ear can point forward sideways or be folded backward according to the mood. Ears that do not show the ability to be erect are a serious fault. So when I say that ears are so much a hallmark for the breed, they absolutely are. So yeah, so that is our story about Ibithan hounds. Keep in mind if you guys, if you guys have additional breeds that you would like to hear about, you can drop them in the comments. So far we've discussed the American hairless terrier, the Berger Blanc Suisse and the Ibithan hound. So next up is the miniature pencher. The miniature pencher was a suggestion from Isabelle on Facebook and her fun fact is that they're the king of toys and that they're happy when they're treated like a big dog. And the photo you see on your screen is from a very dear friend of mine who has had some very successful men pins and the sort of hallmark of the breed of the miniature pencher is that hackney movement. And that's shown very nicely in that photo. So according to the standard, the miniature pencher is structurally balanced, sturdy, compact, short-coupled, smooth-coated dog, naturally proud, vigorous and alert. Characteristic traits are his hackney-like action, fearless animation, complete self-possession and spirited presence. There are a lovely toy breed, 10 to 12 and a half inches in height, qualification under 10 inches or over 12 and a half inches. So they're a good little breed. The ears are set high, standing erect from base to tip, maybe cropped or uncropped. They are a docked breed. In the standard, it says the tail is set high, held erect, docked in proportion to the size of the dog. Let's go to movement because this is so much a characteristic. The four legs and hind legs move parallel with feet turning neither in nor out. The hackney-like action is a high-stepping, reaching free and easy gait in which the front leg moves straight forward and in front of the body and the foot bends at the wrist. The dog drives smoothly and strongly from the rear. The head and tail are carried high. The temperament is described as fearless animation, complete self-possession and spirited presence. The two colors are red and black and tan. Let me just verify that. Solid clear red, stag red, black with sharply defined rust red markings on cheeks, chocolate, there we go. Chocolate with rust red markings, disqualifications any color other than listed. Thumb mark, patch of black hair surrounded by rust on the front of the four legs between the foot and the wrist. On chocolates, the patch is chocolate hair. White on any part of the dog, which exceeds one half inch in its longest dimensions. So they are, if you think about the Deberman Pinscher, the German Pinscher, the miniature Pinscher, they're all in that general family of dogs. Menpens being obviously the smallest, pocket-sized. Wendy, I have a whole podcast on Lancaster Hewlers, actually Lancashire Hewlers. And if Natalie is a really sweet and wonderful human, she will go to the website and keyword search, Lancashire L-A-N-C-A-S-H-I-R-E Hewlers. And there is a fabulous podcast with one of the breeders here in the US. So we're working on that for you, Wendy. Menpens, fun, fabulous little dogs, the ones I've been around. The good ones are fabulous. The ones that you see that are not as strong or confident as described in the standard, you know, they're little dogs, so they can cause a lot of fuss in order to dissuade you from, you know, being mean to them like that, right? Like they just, they'll use their voices if they can't use their size to intimidate you. I love watching a good one of this breed move. They really will remind you of a fabulous hackney pony, the good ones. So okay, next up is Tibetan Terriers. And I've now got poor Natalie doing double duty. And can I just simply tell you how impossible it would be for me to do this live podcast for you guys successfully without Natalie in the background. So what was the Dave Letterman show, the guy in the background, that's Natalie. All right, Tibetan Terriers were my pick to add to the mix. We had requests for breeds that had already been covered. I've already done Tibetan Spaniels, which was one of the breeds that was suggested. And I put that link in the Facebook post. I have also done an interview on lots of opfos that fall into the same sort of Tibetan breed category. I have a fabulous series on Tibetan mastiffs. So I've done a lot of the Tibetan breeds, but we hadn't done Tibetan Terriers. So I said, let's pull that up. So I went, it's a breed I showed a couple of. I'm not a specialist in this breed by any stretch, but they're a fascinating breed to me. And remember we talked about at the very beginning, the piece of the standard that says, what does it mean? If the, okay, I can get the word right here. Let's see, the dog should stand well down on its paths. That line is from the Tibetan Terriers standard. And the way the standard describes it is that that foot shape, which is described as large and round and, let's see, large and round and flat. Yes, the feet are large, flat and round in shape, producing a snowshoe effect that provides traction. The pads are thick and strong. So when you examine a Tibetan Terrier, the judge is supposed to feel the toes of the dog and they're not really supposed to be arched like you think of most dogs feet. They are supposed to be flat. They are not supposed to be splayed out. The toes are still tight. It's just that the pads are flat. And that's what it means when it says the dog should stand well down on its pads. And from the opening paragraph of the standard, it says that the Tibetan Terrier evolved over many centuries, surviving in Tibet's extreme climate and difficult terrain. The breed developed a protective double coat, compact size, unique foot construction and great agility. The Tibetan Terrier served as a steadfast devoted companion in all of its owner's endeavors. And so I just thought this was a fascinating breed to talk about, to look at. And I pulled up some information from the Tibetan Terrier Club of America website that I thought was just really lyrical and thought I would share with you because I thought it was a lot of fun. So just as wind is from the Tibetan Terrier Club of America website from an article written by one of their breeders. Just as wind and water can sculpt a distinct topography, I believe topography can also change a particular psyche. Geography is entwined with its regional artists, musicians and writers. Georgia O'Keeffe's paintings of the Southwest, Aaron Copland's evocative music of the vast American landscape and Wallace Shregner's novels steeped with the mind and place of the 20th century America are examples of how place can shape an individual's psyche and express itself. If one seeks to understand the rugged, versatile, charismatic Tibetan Terrier, it is helpful to know more about where they evolved. The contrary of Tibet embodied and expressed in the personality, demeanor and physique of the TT. Having lived for thousands of years in geography full of extremes is no incidental matter when forensically considering how this unique landscape impacted the psyche of the TT. Might an environment that had wide altitude variations, harsh temperatures and precipitation extremes have favored a dog with an adaptable, highly nuanced personality. Historically used as caravan dogs, guards for livestock and monasteries and traveling companions, TTs are well-suited for the multitasking demands of contemporary life, called little people in Tibet. They are listening to dogs, deeply bonded to their families and often possessing an array of contradictory behaviors. Are they active? Well, yes and no. Do they like people? Well, yes and no. Are they easy to train? Yes, but not in any way you would imagine. Are they highly sensitive? Yes, but they also are very tenacious. Are they hardy? Yes, they're an extremely robust breed, but a pine needle caught between the back legs on a walk can be a man down event. They are drama prone, but also stoic. They absolutely love snow, but of whore rain. They will push the boundaries with their ornery mischievous antics, but sincerely want to do the right thing. This may be why many creative people make an excellent match for a TT companion as they inherently sympathize with an out-of-the-box soul. I just thought that sounded so... It was absolutely accurate for the ones that I showed and it was such a lyrical and beautiful description of a breed tying it to its region and to its people. And it just took me back so much to what we talk about at Pure Dog Talk that purebred dogs are history and they are art and they represent a place in time. And that article just really captured all of that for me as regards to the Tibetan Terrier. Dr. Seuss feet, yes, absolutely. And no, not actually a terrier. Many of the Tibetan breeds kind of get mischaracterized, but this is the Tibetan Terrier, the Tibetan Spaniel is a smaller, more compact, closer in appearance to sort of a short-coded Pekingese or closer to that concept at any rate. Tibetan Terrier has a lot more leg under it as it were. So there you go. All right, so we've got the Lancashire Healers up. Natalie is absolutely amazing. So in our fun facts, Tibetan Terriers, not really Terriers and have Dr. Seuss feet. All right, who else has got more for me? Send me questions, send me comments, drop them in the chat. Meanwhile, I will go back and we can pick out some more cool fun facts about the breeds that we already have. Okay, so I just wanted to make sure we got all of those in in the time we had allotted. Talking about the American Hairless Terrier, we're back to this particular concept. I think that the description of the coat in the hairless and the coated variety is really interesting. So in the American Hairless Terrier, it says under the coat section, the breed is hairless but has a coated counterpart. The coated dog is covered with a short, smooth, dense coat that has a sheen. Whiskers are not removed. A coated dog that lacks a full coat is to be seriously faulted. In the hairless variety, we talked about the hairless puppies with their down that they come with at birth. And then in the guard hairs, talks about the guard hairs on the eyebrows and muscles, we talked about that short, fine, vellus it says, hair may be present on the body of a mature dog. The skin is smooth and warm to the touch, disqualification in the coated variety, wire broke, no long coat. So there is an interesting history of this breed and I'm gonna see if I can pull up the breed standards so I get it right. But my understanding is there is a direct connection to the rat terrier. And so I want to see if Emily's on here and she can get to it before I do. But I'm gonna try and get to the national club site and see if we can get to the history here. You guys know that this is one of the best ways to learn about your breeds is trying to get to the actual national club website and see the pictures and see about all of the history and all of the information that goes with the breed. And of course, it doesn't give me what I was looking for. Okay, here we go. American hairless terrier originated in the south of the US. So it's a native sun breed to the US as a natural variation. That's what I thought. Okay, I wasn't wrong. As a natural variation of the rat. This completely hairless dog is a lively, intelligent and friendly companion that is often the perfect answer for those with allergies. The breeding of the American hairless terriers began in earnest in the early 1970s when a hairless puppy was born into a litter of mid-sized rat terriers. This was not the first hairless puppy born to these parents, but it was the first to be given to a couple in Louisiana, Edwin and Willie Scott who immediately fell in love with this female puppy and named her Josephine. Josephine became the foundation for the American hairless terrier breed. The AHT is well-known for its propensity for fewer allergic reactions than other breeds, allowing them into homes once denied. This combined with their intelligence and ease of care make them perfect companions while maintaining the drive to excel in performance events. 12 to 16 inches tall at the shoulder, so we set that. And here we talked about the hairless and the coated variety. This is a great little tidbit. The coated variety is lovingly called the coated carrier by the AHT fanciers. Although it is fully coated, it carries the hairless gene. A coated dog that lacks a full coat is to be seriously faulted. So there you go. How cool is that? I knew. I knew that I knew something about hairless terriers. Okay, so Eli, we showed a picture of your dog and your breed. If you drop it in the chat, you can share some more interesting factoids that you would like to have us share on with the rest of the group. I think it's really interesting that this particular shepherd breed calls for the back to be level and firm. We don't see any of the special three-point stand that we see with the German shepherd dog or any of that particular thing. Tail is a bushy saber. So very much similar to a lot of the shepherds in that basic concept. Just running through the breed standard for anything else. Rhythmical sequences of steps with even drive and enduring front legs reaching out far with strong thrust. Trot is ground covering and easy. This is the gate section from the FCI standard. So here's another one I think is interesting when we offer two different coat varieties. So it was another one with that. The white shepherd medium length coat. Dense, close lying double coat, abundant undercoat covered with hard straight protective hair. Face, ears and front of legs covered with shorter hair. Neck and the back of the legs, the coat is slightly longer, slightly wavy, hard hair is permitted. In the long coat version, which I believe is the photo that we have, it is a dense, close lying double coat, abundant undercoat covered with hard straight protective hair, shorter hair on the face and the legs. Neck long coat forms a distinct mane and the back of the legs it forms trousers and the hair on the tail is bushy. The coat length should never be exaggerated. Slightly wavy, hard hair is permitted and pure white is the only cover. And Eli says it's a very diverse breed. Many of them excel in performance events. Okay, so Cindy, you're saying similar to the German shepherd dog, but based on the photo without some of the exaggerations that we see in some of the US dogs or talk to us about that. Eli or Cindy, somebody drop in the comments. So this particular dog that we're showing in the photo here, Berger Blanc-Suisse, I think that's actually a S-U-I-S-S-E, spelling error, our bad, our bad. It's a very pretty dog. You can see the front construction balancing the rear. So that's nice. Let's see, Eli says that during the last UKC premier nationals, we had the largest entry at the show. Oh, very cool. So what did that, how many dogs was that Eli? That's a very cool. Are you, Eli, can you tell us, are you working on AKC recognition for this breed? Right, it started out as a part of the German shepherd breed, but has from what I understood from the standard diverged over time. Eli, can you tell us, are you working on recognition for the breed within the American Kennel Club or you're still a ways away from that? Okay, so while I'm waiting on Eli's answer in my chat, I thought we would go down 50 dogs. Oh my gosh, that's a huge entry. That's amazing. Good job, Eli. I hope I'm saying your name right. If I'm not, just yell at me. Back to the Ibethan hounds. I think one of the things that's interesting about this particular breed, they are more of what we would think of as a pedenco, not a sighthound, but we look at this breed and it has very, very moderate angulation, very open angles. And it talks about in the breed standard and you see it absolutely in the dogs in the ring, the shoulders are elastic, never loose with moderate breadth at the withers. The shoulder blades are well laid back. At the point of the shoulder, they join to a rather upright upper arm. The elbow is positioned in front of the deepest part of the chest. It is well held in, but not so close as to restrict movement. The forearms are long and straight, bonus clean and fine. One of the most fascinating things that I learned about this breed as I owned them over the course of time is that their construction, when it talks about the elbow is in front of the deepest part of the chest. This is because when they hunt, they literally change direction midair and their legs cross underneath their body. And so that is what gives them ability to be as agile as they are when they're hunting. Okay, thanks Eli. Thanks for updating us on your breed and that it is an ongoing process for the Berger Blanc Suisse to accomplish AKC recognition. And I understand it is a lot to do from everything that I have been given to understand. So there's the Ibethanhound, some of the uniqueness of that, the ears, the front, the chest is above the elbows, where the elbows meet the body. See what it exactly says, because this is positioned from the... So the chest actually may go below the elbow or to the elbow, but where the elbow comes down is in front of that space. The elasticity of the shoulders is another part of that ability to be super agile. All right, okay. Next up, back to the minpin to cover some of these breeds a little more in depth. So when we look at the head, and I think this is really, really interesting because you have the miniature pencher, you have the Chihuahua, you have the Toy Manchester Terrier, and each of them has a very specific head construction, even though they're all Toy breeds, short-coded in the case of a smooth-coat Chihuahua, but the heads are very distinct and should tell you exactly which breed you're looking at. So the head in a miniature pencher is tapering, narrow with a well-fitted but not too prominent foreface, which balances the skull. No indication of coarseness. Eyes are full, slightly oval, clear, bright, dark, even to a true black. Ears are set high. Skull appears flat, tapering forward to the muzzle. Muzzle is strong rather than fine and delicate and in proportion to the head. Well-balanced with only a slight drop to the muzzle, which is parallel to the top of the skull. Lips and cheeks, small, taut, and closely adherent to each other. So there's your men-pen head, right? And so when we talk about the Toy Manchester Terrier, for example, talk about the head in the breed standard, making my computer do things while I'm talking is not always all that easy. So a Toy Manchester Terrier is not to exceed 12 pounds and if you have a dog that you believe exceeds that, you weigh it. If it does exceed that, it may compete as a standard Manchester Terrier. The head is described as keen and alert expression, almond shaped, nearly black eyes, moderately close together, slanting upwards on the outside. The eyes neither protrude nor sink in the skull. Correct ears for the toy variety are, are at the base tapering to a pointed tip, right well up on the skull. Head is long, narrow, tight-skinned and almost flat indentation of the forehead, blunted, wet, muzzle as well filled under the eyes, under jaws full. So you can see there are really distinct differences in these breed standards and when we talk about identifying breed type, breed type is what makes it a miniature pincher and not a Toy Manchester Terrier or a smooth coat chihuahua. So it's all of those pieces taken together. So the head type on the minpen, the hackney movement, all of those things are what make it identifiably what it is. Okay, who else has a breed? Cindy, you're here. Let's talk about Berger Picard. Let's see. You wanna drop a picture of your breed in the comments on Facebook. I can pull up the breed standard here and we can go through it simply because you're here and that's what we get to do. I love wire-coded things. I told you I had to have a wire-coded hound. Well, here we have the wire-coded herding dog in addition to the lacquerois, it's about what we've got. When we're talking about the Berger Picard, it's an ancient breed developed by the farmers and sheepherders of the Picard region of Northern France. They're medium-sized, sturdily built and well-muscled. Without being bulky, they're slightly longer than tall, distinctive erect natural ears with a wiry coat of moderate length. Have a tail that reaches to the hawk and ends in a jay hook. Very important piece of the breed, sort of characteristic. Movement is free and easy, efficient and tireless to allow them to work all day, lively and alert, observant, quietly confident, aloof with strangers but should not be timid or nervous. This is a rustic working shepherd's dog without exaggeration or refinement. All right, Cindy, give me, yeah, I've got the standard. I need a fun fact, give me a fun fact on the Berger Picard, besides that I think they're really adorable. Let's see, something, if we can run the standard, I have to go back and find it, I can't. Okay, so when we talk about a wire-coded herding dog, we're talking about a dog that has a harsh, crisp coat and it's neither flat nor curly, it has a slight wave. There's a soft, dense undercoat, it's pretty common when we have the wire-coded breeds that we're looking for that coat to be protective. The rough coat of the Picard is distinctive and should never be woolly, soft or so profuse that it hides the outline of the dog. The ideal length of the coat is two to three inches over the entire dog, should be a little bit shorter on the head, yeah, this is it. I love this, the coat accents on the head and neck which give the Picard its distinct look known as graffinage, I'm gonna say that wrong and she's gonna correct me, including rough eyebrows, moderate beard and mustache and a slight rough on the front and sides of the neck, framing the head, all of moderate length. Coat over four inches in any location, should be penalized, longer coats penalized more severely than those only slightly longer than ideal. Okay, yes, they were used to smuggle lace. I don't know where that came from, Mike Deedle, you win the prize, that is fabulous. All right, the Canine Genome Project identifies Berger Picard as a quote, remnant thread of an ancient land race found throughout Europe. I love the smuggling lace piece. Drivers, okay, give me a fun fact on drivers, Jamie. We absolutely have to do drivers, you're here, we're doing it. These little guys are the coolest. They are in FSS breeds for the American Kennel Club and they're in the Hound Group. They're small-sized German hounds imported to Sweden in 1910. Oh no, wait, small-sized German hounds were imported to Sweden in 1910. There we go. These dogs gained a reputation as very good deer trackers. Right, in 1947, the larger variety of these dogs were given the name Drever and it was soon recognized as a Swedish breed. They are considered the first choice breed for deer tracking but are also used for hunting hare and fox. And Jamie has told me some amazing stories about this breed and that basically the deer hunters hang out in deer camp and the dogs drive the deer to them. And I just, I think they're fabulous. They can display, according to Jamie, dwarfism traits without carrying the gene. The gene is where the health concerns come from. Fascinating. A Picard one, the National Owner Handled Series Finals at AKC National Championship in 2020. I remember that. Sorry, and where of course, my wifi's actually working, which is some kind of miracle and only because of Natalie, but Cindy says her wifi's behind. So you guys just keep on keeping on. We've got 10 more minutes. If anybody has questions, another breed they would like to feature. I am all about it. I can do wire hair, spinoni and clumber until the cows come home. So, you guys talk to me about what else you wanna know about what. Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me, peeps. That's okay, there's a, oh, look at you. Oh my God. Natalie, you are basically a genius. There's a photo of a driver, you guys. Love it, love it, love it, gotta have it. Since Jamie has like, I don't know, 95% of them in the United States, I may be the only one who's ever actually seen them. Okay, Ingrid, what's your theory on coats? Oh, there's a Burjei Picard. Excellent, well done. I drop your question, Ingrid. Let me hear it. Look at those cute faces on the Picards. Don't they just look like little elves? Just adorable. Okay, anybody else with questions while we're waiting for Ingrid to submit her theory? Open coats and retrievers be a dequeue. Okay, so if we're talking about Labrador retrievers, the standard's pretty specific about what the coat can and cannot be, but I don't know that it dequeues an open coat. Let's look at that. I do know that head coats and tail are the absolute hallmarks of the breed, so I expect that it's gonna have something. I know that height is a dequeue in that breed. Later we got here. Any deviation from the height prescribed, these are the disqualifications in a Labrador. Thoroughly pink nose, lacking in pigment, eye rims without pigment, docking or otherwise altering the length of the tail. Any color or combination of colors other than black, yellow or chocolate, as described in the standard. So there is no disqualification for an open coat. The standard describes the Labrador retriever coat as a distinctive feature of the breed. Short, straight and very dense, giving a fairly hard feeling to the hand. The Labrador should have a soft weather resistant undercoat that provides protection from the water, cold and all types of ground cover. Slight wave down the back is permissible. Woolly coats, soft silky coats and scar sick coats are not typical of the breed and should be severely penalized. So in answer to your question, Ingrid, as regards open coats, it doesn't specifically say that, but those three coats that are addressed would be an indicator that they are severely penalized. And I don't disagree with you, but Ingrid, I think in terms of, can we talk at the Labrador Retriever Club of America into changing the standard to address open coats? Well, I wouldn't hold my breath on that. But you're absolutely right. And it's why the correct code is described in the standard, it's such a hallmark of the breed. And if it doesn't have that and it goes into the icy water off of the coast of Labrador, it's gonna freeze to death. So you know what I'm saying. White shepherds are also very well represented in UK Sea Total Dog events. I love that. I think that's a very, very cool. I think that Ingrid talking about height DQ versus coat DQ, when we think about a Labrador Retriever, we're thinking about a dog that can get in and out of the boat. So I do think that a, and I don't know maybe what they need to talk about is a weight standard, but height standard, a size standard of some shape, form, or fashion for the breed makes sense to me. Having hunted over lobs and gotten them in and out of boats, giant dogs are difficult. But I think your point is very well taken. Open coats maybe should be something to be considered. Certainly when we are educated on the breed, we look very carefully at the correct coat rather than so much the faulty coat, but the correct coat and what that should look like. Oh, oh, wow, cool, Natalie. Natalie and Stacy and a whole bunch of people went to, let's see, who else was there? There was a Bar-Parel went and Jenna went. There was an IABCA show in Idaho and she said there were four white shepherds there. That was very, very cool. All right, you guys, I have a secret for next month. I can't tell you what it is exactly just yet because it's still in the works, but there's a secret surprise that we will give you a tease on coming up in the next few weeks. Our next live at five will be November 1st talk about kicking off the holiday season in style. Yes, I think we all here can love the IABCA shows. They are such fun. Oh, I should have done Bassefov de Bretagne. That would have been good, but we're out of time. So thank you all for joining us. Super, super glad that you could all get here tonight for our live at five. Always remember that you can check out the podcast on the website, puredogtalk.com, and you can also find all of our archived information, the link to the patrons group to join and sign up for the pep talk, the book, all those things available at puredogtalk.com. Thank you all for joining us. And always, always, always remember, we couldn't do it without you. And our purpose is your passion. Thanks very much. Good night, everybody.