 Good morning everyone. This is the September 9th Friday meeting of the elementary school building committee and seeing we have a quorum. I am going to call out people's names as I see them on the screen. Because we're conducting this meeting, virtually by zoom, and I need to make sure all committee members can hear and be heard. Mike. Here. Paul. Present. Sean. Here. Jonathan. Good morning. Phoebe. Hello. Hi, Ben. I'm here. And Simone. Here. Okay, as others join, if I don't see them, just call them out to me and I'll make sure we recognize them. And I see we did bring Phoebe and has joined us. So I'm going to turn the meeting over to Margaret for to show the agenda and I wanted to say we have one additional item I just sent it to everyone late breaking this morning. I'm on a question on, would we consider changing the meeting time for the committee Alicia Walker sent us a letter that I have posted that she's taken a job that makes the morning meeting impossible for her. Under the 48 hour rule, we'll get to that at the end of the agenda, but just a discussion of, of whether that can be accommodated because we need to make sure we can keep a quorum and we can keep people together. Because we had originally told everyone it would be a morning meeting so I reposted the charge and I posted her letter. So, Margaret, I'm going to turn it over to you. Can everybody see that. Yeah. I, I can so I shouldn't everybody. I'm guessing everybody can. Okay, so the, there aren't a lot of items but I think there will be a lot to look at. The big one is that Janice goes going to give us updates on the building site plans, the building plans as well as the building exterior. We're going to do a little bit of recap on the day lighting discussion and then that zero committee and then there are invoices and the issue that Kathy just brought up. So, Margaret just looking at the agenda we talked about on the building exterior setting up a subcommittee so that's one of the items for today on seeing who would be interested in, and it would be a short term, bringing options back not making decisions. Right. Recommend, you know, recommendations. Okay. Yep. I am going to turn it over to the dentist. Tim is going to present. I see Rupert has joined us so Rupert. I just want to make sure you can hear us and we can hear you. I can hear you. Okay, great. Thank you. Share my screen. And as Mark mentioned, we're going to do some updates on site plan and plan. And then move into the exterior of the building. Tim, is there a way to maybe just view it full screen or something? We're just getting more. What do you have? I, we're just seeing the, the whole PDF, just because these are all graphics. I don't know if you can view full screen. No, we're just moving the page. I might be able to make a little bigger, but I don't get bigger. Command plus. Or our command L will maybe bring up full screen, but then you can't zoom easily. This isn't the command L view. Can you. Do you still see the border? Yeah. Yeah. Actually, Tim, can you advance? I'm wondering if you're sharing the right. No, I guess you are. I can zoom in more if that helps. The unfortunate thing is I'm working with one screen, so I can't exactly see what you are seeing. This is command L and this is. I zoom out a little bit more though, Tim, just for context, as you talked about the site plan. Okay. You had it. So the site plan. We want to talk about actually things that are going on in the background. We have a productive meeting with Rehar. And Dave Zomek to talk about accommodating. Non-school uses onsite specifically the wreck department. Understanding what they use in terms of softball and other fields on site and how we can organize our playing fields. The athletic fields that will be built as part of the project so that, you know, this is a fully developed town asset with the school coming up. So we're going to talk about that first, but everyone else to my possible. Being accommodated and then we've restated what we have been stating along the fields will be replaced in kind. We may change the orientation of the softball field as it's shown here rotated. So it works a little bit better with the playgrounds. But as we've been saying. So we're going to go ahead and zoom out a little bit more. I can't see the whole site. So. If you do the minus. Is that what we don't see the bottom. You got to just zoom out. Did see the minus sign. The minus button. There you go. So the softball field might be turned, which we will study a little bit. And then as we've been saying all along the existing lights that are there that are somewhat outdated and the. Exterior restrooms will not be replaced as part of the school project. But we do expect to get a full schedule from Ray harp. And once we get that, we can really get into it and make sure that we're accommodating enough fields. There's also been some testing that's been going on on site. The surveyors have remarked the wetlands and our specialist Amy ball was out there. She said. You don't have a. From her yet, but she's the process of talking to her and job. And the wetlands as she observed when she was out the week of the 29 are almost entirely in line with the delineation from 2019. So that is good for our understanding of what we can do. And it's also. Good so that we can move the process along. Also during the week of the 29. There were geotechnical boardings conducted on site within the footprint of the building to get the soil profile. Again, we don't have the report on that, but the initial discussion that we've had with the geotechnical engineer is that the findings were in line with what they expected from previous explorations and. The soil modifications and foundation systems that we carried out on site. So that's what we're going to do. And we're going to do that. So that's what we're going to do. And the key estimates are probably accurate for what the eventual soil conditions will be. This is a riverbed in it. Historically a lake bed. So as we thought. There is a lot of clay in the soil, which is compressible and soft. So there will be some. Soil modifications. Ramdagric appears. Required. So this is not a surprise. We also heard actually called yesterday that the geothermal test well is available. Or the contractor that will be drilling the well will be available the week of September 19th. So we're in the process of coordinating setting that up, but there will be a location south of the existing building in south of the new building probably that will give us the first step in determining the efficiency of those wells so that we can eventually do the mechanical design. Kathy, you have your. A couple of things. I just wanted to make sure. That I saw Tammy. And Angelica have joined us. So I just want to make sure they can both here and be heard. So Tammy. And Angelica Tammy. Yeah. Thank you. And Angelica. Thank you. Okay. So I had a couple of questions, Tim. On wetlands. Part of the plan was to move and replace wetlands. Do we need, and my question is timing and process. Do we need conservation commission. To have signed off on those before we. Go to the MSBA to get the, here's our final course. Or is that a process that happens after. So that's my question on. On the steps that we have to take. So the, the full detail of. Where. So there are multiple steps. There's initial, the an read, which is the definition of the wetlands and that will happen before we go to the MSBA, the full site development package. And that will eventually get signed off on. By concom and we will receive our order of conditions. That will be. After. But the amount of wetlands that we are. At this point, intending to reconstruct move effect in any way are, are very small. It's actually a wetland finger between. The existing softball field and the fields to the west of it. Okay. Okay. Now my other question is September 19th. If people wanted to go and see the drilling. Can you, once it's set up, can you give us a time? Like you mass did this and some people went and kind of observe. You know, and I don't know whether that's possible or not. Okay. Okay. That we might want to defer that to. Mike and. Okay. Okay. So it was just only because right is September 19th. It's a school day. I think. Okay. Is it Tim? It's a. Well, it is a school day. So I was about to get into the process of what the geotech, what the geothermal test will involve. It will be similar in terms of equipment and noise. To the drilling that was there the week of. August 29th, I believe. Only slightly different that there's only going to be one well, they will drill that and which will probably take one day. And then they will leave a. A water tank, essentially, and a little pump and a generator that will pump water through the test well to test the thermal conductivity of it. So. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Two and three actually will not be that interesting unless you want to go and look at a box next to a well on site. And then day one will be similar to what was already there. So, I mean, it is interesting in terms of the overall. You know, what the building is going to be and how it's going to function, but mechanically, I don't know. How interesting it is. And I also don't know that you want to invite people on the site. I mean, when, when we have kids in the building, we try to not have lots of visitors on site just for safety and security reasons. So, you know, if the people will still be working after three o'clock, that gets a lot easier. And we have our after school program there, but just we don't have a school full of kids. So, you know, I don't know what the schedule is, but if people did want to come, that would be a time where we'd be much more comfortable with people coming on site during the school day, which is roughly eight to two 45. That's where we wouldn't want people and we really don't want more people during dismissal. I think Tammy would attest to that. So, you know, if it's after three o'clock and, and, you know, people want to go check it out, that's, you know, that's where our school kind of property opens up for people to visit and, you know, it sounds like it's a full day affair or multi-day affair. And, you know, that's really doesn't sound super interesting to you, but to me, but I'm one person and the people, what I don't find interesting other people may find interesting. So, you know, we're open to that. So thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, just, and we're really digressing here. Mike, our staff or our team members won't be in the building, but they'll be on site. So they need to get couried. Nope. No, we'll have, we don't have unsupervised folks, but, you know, in terms of visitors who don't have an official role to be on site, that's where we try to limit number of people. They're there to do a job. That's not a problem. They're outside. That's not a problem. But if they were coming in the building, I'd give you a different answer. And the visitors part is the part that we would be getting very cautious about. Perfect. Thank you. And then one more thing on site. We're just going to process of setting up a few meetings to review traffic. On-site circulation with. The site plan in general has not changed in the past week, but there are a lot of things on tap that potentially will have effect on it. Moving into the building. We'll also only made minor revisions. Phoebe, you have your hand up. So we can finalize pickup, drop off routines, site circulation, where additional parking for fans, specialty uses and service should be. So the site plan in general has not changed in the last week, but it's been a long time. So we're just going to move on. Phoebe, you have your hand up. Yeah. Sorry. Can you go back to the site? And I know it hasn't changed much, but I did have a couple of questions. One of which is I'm trying to figure out and I can't. I can't visualize it based on looking at this, obviously, and looking at the actual site of Fort River, but like how does this compare to. How does this compare to the site of Fort River? I don't know that's usable for fields and play and all of that kind of stuff. And what I don't see, I don't see any black top space, that kind of stuff. So I understand that, that you guys are in the process of talking to people to figure out what, you know, the basic needs are not only of the school, but of the town with, with regards to use of this. But I'm wondering if we have a general idea of how it's going to look right now. Well, I can, I can give you some answer to that. I can tell you that the building footprint is about 49,000 square feet compared to 82,000 square feet for the existing building. So there is less building on site in terms of an actual square footage takeoff of this area, which is the hard escape place or where you would have half of the building, some full court basketball, four square, that sort of thing. It's similar, maybe a bit larger than what exists at the northern end of the building now. And then there, these areas marked play are playgrounds that will have a drainable rubber surface for safety. And then we do not have them developed. Would you try again? We don't have them developed, but we'll be talking about the outdoor learning spaces. So we don't know exactly how large they are, but they will be distributed through the site. And then the intent of the athletic fields is to essentially replace them in kind. The softball field is the same size as the one that is at the southern end of the site is currently this area is about the size of the multipurpose field area to the east of the existing site. And this is another ultimate frisbee size site. You know, as we fully develop all of these fields with input from Ray and the school, we can give numbers and, but in total, there's a smaller building, a similar amount of hard escape play area. There is increased outdoor learning opportunities and structured outdoor classrooms as we develop that. And the goal is to have a similar amount of athletic fields. I can't put numbers on anything besides the building footprint at the moment, but that is the intent in the direction we're moving. Okay. Thank you. Can I ask one more question? Absolutely. I think it came in a public comment to us that we were sent. I can't remember who sent it. But there was a, and I am not. I am not well versed. Let me put this out there in the finances of all of this in terms of, you know, funding of it, really. But I wanted to ask about the CPA funding because I know that had been mentioned and something about it having to be a guide for by September 30th. Are we in the process of that? We spoke about that yesterday with Kathy and so the information that would you, the town would need to apply for that. We can provide. Sean has his hand up and I'll talk to this too. Yeah, the CPA window is open right now until the 30th CPA committee evaluates lots of proposals every year. So this proposal could certainly be submitted if we have sufficient information. It is an annual process as well. So it's, it's this year, but it's every year. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's an annual process. But, you know, in terms of needing some information, possibly in advance of that exclusion vote, I can see why maybe this would be a cycle that we'd want to, that an application might want to be submitted. And so what, what I asked, um, Phoebe on a sort of where Sean just said, we, we need from Dennis go a number, a dollar number that is the community field that isn't the school, you know, the community field. And so we need to have a piece from the school. And so they, they said they'd be able to give that to us. You know, so then we can talk about the drainage that's being added in the way the fields are being improved and then replaced. That would be, need to be part of. The proposal because CPA has recreation in it. It doesn't have the word school in it. So it has to be the community field part of it. You know, with a, you know, rough justification of, of this is how we came up. It's similar to the way the Jones library had a piece of the library that was the historic special collections. They identified that as a sub piece. So we would need to do that with this project. Okay. And then who's responsible for actually like doing the application when we have that information. So it could be, it could be town staff. It could be community members. Anyone can submit a CPA application. The applications live on the website now. Okay. Thank you. Should we move on to the building plans. Moving into the building on the first floor, there have been incremental changes and we had some very productive meetings yesterday with the administration. The administrative staff and the music staff. Also the gym and food service. So that will lead to some. Changes upcoming in how the administration suite is laid out. And how we can best accommodate all of the multiple uses of the. Robust music program that you were lucky to have in your district. And so that will allow us to continue. You know, continue to massage these spaces to. Make them more efficient. Moving up through the building. We're there and some incremental pushes and pulls listening to the comments that we've had about simplifying the exterior, making sure the program is within a. Efficient envelope and making sure that all of the adjacencies are working for the staff and the district as we've discussed. There are still some spaces that are not programmed yet. But I think that's a good point. I should say that there are large and efficient circulation spaces and that we are working on filling with. The spaces that we need to make the building work as we work with our consultants, like emergency electrical rooms and stuff like that. But these spaces will be developed as we move forward. And so with that update on the site. And the plans of the building, we're going to start to discuss. So here is a very early mass and concept. Of the building as it's laid out now, how does plan. This is looking slightly from the Northwest with this being the main entrance. This volume is the administration suite and the lobby. This volume is the music room. This volume is. The stack of the cafeteria on the first floor and the library on the second floor. And beyond is the gym. And then as we get all of the beyond all the public spaces from the entrance, there is the three story. Portion of the L of portion of the building with the academic classrooms and everything else. What this shows is since there is no second floor over the administration suite and the music, we can tilt the roof to allow North light in to illuminate the lobby. And then we have a lot of space to get lots of daylight into the music library and cafeteria. And then a more regular expression where we have the classrooms. This is one of many options we're looking at. And, but, you know, this is one of the things we're excited about and want to, you know, start to talk to a working group about design. We haven't really made any material choices in this area. We've made a couple of areas near the entrance, possibly the entrance to the cafeteria where we think there's an opportunity to do something. Particularly special. Maybe it's some sort of inclusion of art. Maybe it's something really colorful, what speaks to the identity of the building and how we want to do it. Maybe it's, you know, this is the very beginning of these discussions we want to have. Tim, can I just, can you talk about the stack that's sticking up in the back? Because I don't think anyone's ever seen that before. Absolutely. So this is a representation of a stair to the roof. It might be a bit larger than it needs to be. And this drawing also doesn't show all of the various things that are going to be on the roof, including equipment and PV panels. But, you know, one of the many things that we have to study as part of the design is where this stair comes to the roof. So this is just shown in the middle of the building, which might be the most convenient. It's the stair closest to the mechanical space on the first floor in the custodian's office. So it might be the shortest path for anyone who's working on the roof to get there. It's also at this stair, the stair to the roof could also be one that's closer to the entrance and it can be used for the roof to get through the roof. And so it's just a very simple way to get to the roof. And it's also very simple as you approach the site. So, you know, these are. One of the many things that we will be looking at. Paul, you have your. Yeah. Are you looking for comments now? Or do you want to run through your slides and then. Have comments at the end. I'm afraid if I, my comments, I think everybody will have some thoughts. So maybe it's better to go through your slides. So I don't know if you need this as a reference, maybe. We want this to be a conversation week. Okay. I'll make three quick comments then. If you're open to that. One is I worry about, I always worry about seams between different elevations. I've seen that in other built public buildings, like where you have the first floor roof. You know, slanted down to that seam. I'm sure you'll think about that, but even in the best sense, I don't think it's really a good idea. No. There would be some interactive buildings that's a. Always a worry point for me. Second is the entrance. It feels like the entrance to sort of glory. Our glory entrance they're that we want to. Is, is sort of. When you enter the space. From the driveway, you're coming from the south. And so that that entry is, I would think that you would want that entrance to be seen. Pretty. And third was, and this is just sort of a basic question. Why don't we use pitched roofs for buildings? I mean, it seems like in New England, we always use pitched roofs, it makes sense. But on, you know, a lot of public and institutional buildings, we use flat roofs and they always seem to be problematic. That is an interesting mix of design and technical questions, well, which we could spend a long time talking about. I'm not looking for answers now, but just those are my questions. Okay. Well, I think we could address the roof issue, Tim. I think we can address the roof issue. One is the size of the building and to create a slope roof over, well, we do have some slopes here, but a typical gable roof over, say the classroom story, the classroom portion of the building is an unoccupied space that has to be built, maintained and it's simply not the most efficient way to do it. And also, if properly installed, detailed and built a flat roof is just as watertight as a slope roof. Sean? Yeah, just building on Paul's comments. I know from my time at the school, the facility staff at least a couple of times a year go up on the roof with shovels and have to shovel the slush off the roof. And that's where they get a lot of the leaks is not the snow or not the rain, but that slush that sits on the roof. Are there, I'm sure there's maybe new ways to prevent that type of thing from happening, but I'm just curious if that's true, if there's ways to prevent that sort of slushing material from sitting on top of a flat roof. Well, the answer is the roof will be designed both structurally and from a weather tightness point of view that snow on the roof unless you get into a really unusual historic event should not require to be shoveled off. There's a, you're also, a completely separate issue is PV, but the roof itself should be sound. It will be designed for a New England winter without regular maintenance, if that's the short answer to the question. Shana. Unfortunately, the reason we have slush on our roofs is because the current schools are all very underinsulated and the snow tends to melt. A new building would retain the snow a lot longer and there should not be the need for that shoveling of material away from drains or whatever it might be. And I think the thing we should not lose the perspective of is the need for getting a nice open area as much as we can for those PV on the roof. It's a little bit of a misnomer to call roofs flat. They aren't actually flat, or at least contemporary roofs are not flat. They are low slope, but they do have pitch. And I think generally speaking, they're designed in better ways or can be designed in better ways than they were, you know, 40, 50, 60 years ago, so. So I just wanted to echo what I think I heard Paul say about where some of the roofs are sort of pitched into the building, you know, the wall of the building kind of thing. My mind immediately went to, oh, we're gonna have all the water run into. So I just wanted to, I'm sure you guys have brilliance around that, but I also, because I just don't know the answer, I'm wondering if, so we could still put PV on those ones with the greater slope, even though they're not as flat as the other ones. Okay. Yes, the two answers is yes, we will not propose anything that we do not feel that is not sound in terms of a waterproof design. And two, yes, PV is available. I mean, these are still there as a slope, it is rendered as flat in the back and sloped in toward the entrance, but they are all sufficient to host PV panels. So just to add to that, solar design, our solar consultant will, once we have an understanding of equipment and the overall massing, we will share this with them and they will opine on the various types of solar. There's different types of design of solar panels, but also to make sure that where our equipment is, the slope of the roof, or more importantly, the solar orientation of the roofs and how it's hitting from the south exposure, they'll go through it all with us and they will certainly make any recommendations if they feel there's an opportunity to improve the solar. So once we sort of have a general idea, we'll be running all of this by them. Jonathan, do you have another comment? Yes, sorry, just to touch on what Paul was saying, and I suspect in this view, this might be a little artificial. It looks like the building's quite close to the road, but I agree with Paul that the, I like where this is beginning to go with the entry, but as folks are approaching, coming from the parking towards the entry, while that wall provides a nice kind of opportunity for a little bit of a billboard, a little bit of signage or a piece of artwork, it does tend to hide the entry a little bit where I would be worried that it would be. Also curious what this is gonna look like from the opposite direction as you're approaching kind of at the street level. The entrance. The car is coming into the site. I'm personally less worried about the pitch in the roof coming up to the other wall, and I'm sure there's ways to deal with that, but it's gonna be interesting to see how these forms kind of link together. I'm curious if some sort of maybe canopy or something like that could... Yeah, that's where I was going. That would kind of highlight entry. Yeah, we definitely need a canopy. So what you're saying is just the basic form right now, right? So there are a lot of items that are sort of missing from this massing model. So yes, so the entrance will absolutely be accentuated, highlighted, celebrated, but what we were really trying to show is now that we start and understand the program, we know the insides are really starting to gel and work. We have the spatial relationships and adjacencies to have the school function optimally. Now we're just showing, okay, this is an expression of what it could look like on the outside. Yeah. Yeah, well, I must say it's exciting for me to see something that looks like other than three slices of a MRI or when you see a brain slices, you never see the brain. So Tim, can you put your little arrow on exactly where, which part is the cafeteria? Is it that first? So the cafeteria is on the first floor. There's a tree obscuring, but... And then what is the one right next to the one on the first, yeah, but what's that? That is the music room. So this is the main music room cafeteria and library above it. And then over here is the administration suite. So my question on the cafeteria, and I know this is, as Donna just said, it's a beginning, having just walked around Fort River yesterday, I noticed how many people are eating outside. And so can there be a fairly big opening from the cafeteria and that green space allow for, it looks like the schools purchased a whole bunch of very nice-looking picnic tables that are mobile, but sort of opening up. And I know the Lexington School kind of did that. It was a sense of just opening up to the outside. So that was a question over by that side. And then knowing that that's the music room is helpful in terms of what exactly is that room. So that was just my main question. And I'm assuming you'll also be doing a flip like what's the other side look like? We will be getting to that. In terms of massing, this is what we'll be showing for today. And then we want to get to some studies of the actual skin and materials and fenestration. But in the upcoming weeks, you'll be seeing many, many versions of this. So then on the gym, the one we can't see, the flip side too, one of the things I saw in the gym we visited, again, I'll just use Lexington, is the placement of the windows way up high. And then if you met when we were in the gym and there were no lights on, it was really easy to see. And it's a big contrast with the gym. I just saw it at Fort River, where if the lights aren't on, there is no light. So just the gym doesn't have a slanted roof here. You're just showing one window, but you'll be showing us like where are the windows and the amount of light coming into the gym. Yes, absolutely. And then this is north side, south side, when you do windows, to the extent, we're gonna need shades, cause it's gonna be sunny. You'll be showing us some of, like, okay. Those are questions, not how would, how might this look? We will be showing you all of it. Angelica? Yes, thanks. I also want to make a plug for just wanting to see what the entrance looks like. I think there's a lot of issues with Fort River, but one thing that's very clear is that entrance and that entrance is very welcoming. It's got a lot of scripts with different languages. And so getting more details about what that entrance might look like, which brings me, I think, to my second issue is color. This is very white, I'm like very, and color is really important to start talking about because this is an elementary school. And so it's something that I just would love to see more. I also was thinking that the, where it's great that you clarified about the music room cause I was thinking that that was the cafeteria. And the reason I thought is because of so many windows and like Kathy said, so many students are eating outside. My own daughter's in first grade in Fort River right now and that's a big thing for them. If it's raining, they eat inside. If it's not there, they've gotten into this culture of eating outside and that's how they get to hang out with their friends more. So I think it's really imperative to design wise and I might be, I don't know how possible, but it would be great to figure out some tables and things so that the outside and inside is more seamless for the cafeteria. Cause it's no longer, I think in a post COVID, whatever this world is, it's no longer just the simple, the kids eat in the cafeteria. There's got to be a lot more flow for them. Yeah, I understood Angelica and thank you. And we were seeing that as well yesterday and everywhere we go, right? So we will be starting to develop the play area and activities that are going to occur outside of the cafeteria. So, you know, we want to make sure that and we also probably need to include Ben and Rupert as far as how they're going to maintain the space. What are the, we're hearing like this is basketball central, like so we just have to like figure out and prioritize all of the needs. But we saw all of those red picnic tables that weren't just used for lunch. They were used for everything, like staff were out there. So we definitely want to look at how we can incorporate that whether it's formal dining or stumps that kids can sit and eat, whatever. So thank you. Yeah, we absolutely understand that. Paul, you have your... Yeah, just two more thoughts. One is one of the things I'm really sensitive to and because of a prior community, sending crews of people when there's a big snow and then another big snow and the worry about the weight of the snow plus in this place, the situation of solar panels, having to have people go up and shovel off snow because the maintenance were so nervous about the loads on the building as snow is the melt and stuff. So thinking we are going to continue to get snow and probably in greater streams, I'm sure your engineers will think that through and you guys will think that through. The other one, I don't think this is a thing for us but it might be if we're losing in a restroom for our field facilities, it seems like and whether that should be incorporated into the design of this building or some kind of standalone structure or if there should be a restroom at all. I think we are hearing more and more demand for public restrooms in areas where there are events and of course, this will be a premier location for recreation events, I think. And so I don't know if it makes sense to have an outward facing bathroom incorporated into this design or if that should be seen as a separate building. Mike? Yeah, so this is probably a topic for a future meeting agenda. So I'll just respond to Paul there, which is I think we do and we started that conversation yesterday with Dave Zomek from the system manager and recreation and Ray or this week, it wasn't yesterday, I apologize about what do we think about that? What is the future of that? And how do we prioritize school use and recess and kid use with community use a field that hasn't always gone smoothly just bluntly? I think we've had lots of adult beverage containers and things like that left after top all games. I wanna publicly thank the Amherst Recreation Department. It has gotten dramatically better based on their good work and I thanked Ray the other day. He emailed me about it and I wanna thank him here with more people watching that that's gotten better and it's an incredible load for them to carry. And then there's real questions about sustainability. So I do think there's really a conversation to be had about how do we balance the needs of the community versus the school? What kids would use versus adults would use and who maintains that? The bathroom's a great example of who's picking up after that if it's not used by the school and what's the cycle? And again, we try to work as best we can and there's times where it's worked well and there's times where it's been highly problematic. So I think the other thing that I'm hearing about sometimes from the community is it's a huge topic not to delve into but I'm gonna say it because it's relevant. What's gonna happen on the Wildwood site? Is that gonna be a really great site? Many communities have schools that have closed my own home community being one of them that turn into this prime location for community use so that it doesn't have the overlap with the schools and it's a little bit cleaner. I'm not proposing that, I'm just saying it's things I'm hearing about as safety and other concerns come up more and more in schools there's perhaps kind of the idyllic vision of schools and community all using same site with some overlap it's seeming less attractive to some people in our community. So I wanna be sensitive to that. I'm not at all suggesting that we shouldn't have community use of this property. I don't wanna be misinterpreted in saying that. I just think the conversation has to really be about what is the intended use? What is the intended use of other fields in town? And how do we balance those two? As we look at the field use and some of this was the conversation we had what was really helpful. And I suggested this to Tim yesterday and I'll say it to the group is it'd be great if we could have an in-person meeting some day at Fort River and just walk the site. For me, it felt really different seeing where the building would be and seeing it. I'm not Jonathan. I can't just visually design like look at a map and figure out where things would go and it helped me have a better perspective on that and whether that has to be a formal meeting or this group or it really shifted my thinking about it. I think everybody would benefit from something like that. So all I'm suggesting in this long-winded comment I apologize it's pretty quiet the rest of the meeting was that I think we need to have active discussions about that when we talk about a bathroom, one of the things that, what's the maintenance of that? Who maintains that and who makes sure that there's not and it's no critique of people play softball or basketball or the things we love that the community comes in and uses those at appropriate hours. And if the Fort River custodian was on this call he'd have a lot of different opinions about that and how he wants to dedicate his time to kids and not maintaining community use. So lots to talk about, I think it should be in a specific agenda item for a future meeting because I do think it makes sense. And I would love to encourage folks to have the same experience I had which is literally being on site and trying to picture where it is and looking at where the fields are and thanks Tim for walking me around. It was really helpful. Thank you. We also want to start to talk about the fenestration, how the materials, windows, the elements of the building aside from the sculptural shaping of the massing will be articulated moving forward. We're starting to look at classroom fenestration which will repeat on the building and create the basic fabric of the elevations. Here are some studies of how we can create different patterns that will alternate, how we can introduce color in large or small groups whether that color is bright and varied or subtle and specific to specific windows. These are all sort of a mix on a spectrum between sort of traditional punched openings in a series to moving around a little bit and introducing color randomly. As we get into this, we will present different schemes on different options and look for your feedback so we can get you the building that you want. There are... Yeah, Tim, can I just interrupt and responding I think was Angelica's comment on the color of the building. The building is not going to be white. We promise you. Because we haven't really started those conversations yet, we didn't want to kind of infuse a color that would be an assumption that that's the direction. So when we did the massing study, really we wanted you to focus on the volumes and hear what you're saying is, again, what we're not suggesting orange, we're just trying to evoke conversation. We haven't picked either the material or the color of the material for the massing and that's what these working groups will hopefully help us develop and come up with some recommendations to you. So the focus, why we kind of neutralize or mute the facade we wanted you to focus like in this instance, it's the pattern of the windows. So I hope that... I just want to set the tone there. I don't want you to focus on white or orange. Are you guys crazy? So I just wanted to mention that. Kathy. So, Tim, as you go through these, my question, Donna, was not as much on color is that if I look at some of the big window versus small window, my question is, which window is open? Which can I open? So I'm not saying that tell me which ones of these, but just thinking of the amount of light that comes in but the amount of air that you might want to have come in and whether you would vary that on the south side compared to the north side, these are just a question. Yeah. Sure. I will say typically the smaller lights in the windows are going to be the ones that are operable for various reasons. One, windows are heavy, a large operable windows, if it were a major chunk of the wall, it would put a stress and strain on the hardware and they would be hard to open. Also, with the smaller windows open, there will be enough to give you the area that you would need for circulation. We'll also speak to the comment that the mechanical systems, unless you have perfect temperatures outside, will operate better with the windows closed, and then, but there will be triggers so that you're not heating the old, or trying to cool all of the outdoors. But in general, it'll be the smaller lights. And there are also limitations on the amount that the window can open for safety. You don't really want it to open more than six inches, even though six inches around the perimeter of the window can give you a lot of area for ventilation for safety reasons. You don't want the window to be wide open in an elementary school. It can't be wide open in an elementary school. And then there'll be screens as well associated with those windows because we don't want bugs and bees showing up inside or kids throwing things outside, out of the window. So the work's both ways. So there are a series of these diagrams to look at as we get into it. And we're not proposing any really at this is we're just trying to illuminate the process of what we're going through. All of the materials that you see, I mean, this is sort of imagined as a neutral brick and a porcelain tile. But all of these are variable in terms of color, modular dimension, the window systems themselves can be different colors, be it a flat color, a metallic color or even a bright color similar to the accent panels that were shown on the previous slide. This is more of a traditional masonry expression with an accent above with the continued pattern of fenestration at the classrooms. Tim, can you just point out our two windows, a big and a small one classroom or all four one classroom? Just as people speak. Sure, in this diagram, four windows are a classroom, so it's classroom, classroom. And then there are options that we look at where that distinction gets a little blurred. These windows are a few feet away from the wall that divide the classrooms. This is sort of, I would say it's a little neutral dark, Jim, but it's an example of what in 3D that sort of window expression would look like. But if that level of color and expression, playfulness is not to your liking, there's certainly more that can be added. The metal panel could be accent. It could also be a different color masonry or part of the way, but there are literally endless options in terms of how we could introduce color, the facade and which material and which system. This is another view of the North elevation. Each group of three windows is a classroom. Occasionally, there's something breaking up the larger expression in places with subtle reveals and changes in colors and masonry. But overall, these window studies are based on maximizing daylight into the classrooms, keeping them within a range of fenestration that will allow us to meet the overall building goal of 24% exterior window, the window to wall ratio. That is not to say that it would be 24% in the classroom. It will probably be a little bit higher than that in the classroom and maybe a little less in under spaces or over modulated as we continue to progress with the design. But this is the start of the studies that we will be doing for the exterior elevations, the materials, the pallets, the composition that we'd like to really dig into with a working group and then bring sort of more developed and refined options to the committee as a whole to discuss and think about. So that is the extent of the elevation studies that we have for today. If we had any comments on that, we could do that. And then I was also going to recap the daylighting slides that were presented to the net zero subcommittee on why what we're talking about in terms of fenestration is important and how which foreign Thomas any of you will analyze and quantitatively evaluate what we were doing in terms of window. PB has recommended. So I am just wondering when does the discussion happen where we combine things like window options, cost, color, cost, materials, costs, all of those things that could potentially significantly impact the cost itself. I'm wondering, as we're looking at this, I'm wondering, is there a difference between if we like the bank of four windows as opposed to the bank of three windows, things like that. And I just don't know when that happens. We'll be an ongoing discussion. And as we discuss each option, we can talk about the cost implications, but there are general principles that can drive. The glass is more expensive than the wall. So the more of it there is, the more there is. But the answer is every time we discuss, we can have the cost of it as context and background and consideration of everything that we do. Jonathan. Yeah, PB, just to chime in here, another kind of principle here in general is for a given area of glazing, fewer openings are gonna be less expensive than more openings. So for instance, Tim showed an iteration where there were four openings per classroom and this one has three. So as he says, there's several overlapping factors, but I don't know, Tim, are there any other governing principles that we might fold in to discuss? I think I may have made it sound like there's a list and a charter that guides all this, but if there are, some materials cost more than others. So the masonry is the baseline and then an upgrade is the metal panel accents, the porcelain tile, rain screen, and then the most expensive of the systems that we're looking at is windows and curtain wall. So as you evaluate all of these, you should be having that as background in your mind. There are some ways to achieve texture and color that do not have large cost premiums, like varying the masonry, things like that. So as you said, the complexity in terms of the number of openings, certainly. And then also, as we present options, we will talk about the things that add to the complication. Jonathan, I have a feeling you're going to be able to add to this conversation. I guess what I wanted to add is that, you as the design team are working within the context of the cost estimates you have to date and you know that those were based on a certain level of glazing and a certain assumption about the percentage of one exterior material or another exterior material. And that, so that you've already kind of, I don't want to say limited the choices, but you've made some assumptions about where you think this is going to be. And as this develops further, obviously if there's deviations from that, you'll highlight those to us. But I think it is it fair to say that you'll generally be presenting options that are within the boundaries that have been established by the estimates to date. Absolutely. I mean, we on every job, we have to design to a budget. So we are not going to present something that we feel or know is unrealistic in terms of what the established costs and allowances are for this project. Paul. Yeah. I just wanted to build on that. You know, as we already know that we should be value engineering right now because I don't want to get into a situation where we'd put something fantastic on and then we get, you know, we know we're going to be looking at this and we're doing this at other buildings, obviously. And we're going to say, oh, we really wanted this, this texture, this, you know, sheathing on the building is so cool, but we are no, we're going to have to value engineer it out because this is a very price sensitive project. So I just hope that when you present options to us, they're within the price range of what we've already talked about and don't, you know, I don't want to be in a situation where we're going to see beautiful things and then not be able to afford them. So I think we should be, your job is to help us be in that range, like Jonathan said. Yeah. We understand that as our job and just as much as you, we don't want to be in the position where we present something that is not possible. We simply will not do that. Rupert. Hi. Just out of curiosity, in the menacing study, there's a couple of spots where you have glazing all the way to the corner, going all the way to the roof. And I'm wondering if it also has a cost premium to have that in work. So I'm trying to formulate the answer in a way that is befitting the sophistication of the question, but it's a very early massing study that is diagrammatic. We will not present or propose extremely complicated details. All the time when curtain wall comes to a corner, there may be spandrel that hides something going on behind it. But it is possible to bring curtain wall at a corner to a roofline, but we will do it in a way and detail in a way that is responsible both from a cost and weather type perspective. Thanks, Tim. Tim, can I just make one comment before we transition? I mean, I think what needs to be said about what you're proposing, sort of in a very big picture is you're thinking of what this design proposal, the massing proposal is really proposing that there be a significant differentiation between the form and shape of the lower parts of the building and the upper. And that is a direct response to the size of the building and the desire for it not to seem like an overwhelming size. I mean, that I think is a really good design strategy, but I just want to sort of summarize that and make that statement because that's what's at the heart of what is being proposed here. I think that is a concise and accurate statement. And I think we've heard that there are some concerns about the size of the building. We've heard that there wants to be an identity and entrance to the site and to the building and manipulating the massing at the west end of it gives us the opportunity to do that. We don't think we have it resolved, but do you have articulated, you know, what the goal is to do? That's the design objective. Tim, I'm wondering whether I could interrupt the flow as you're about to go into some of the day lighting slides because Jonathan said he has to leave early. And we had, I want to have that presentation, but we had that presentation on net zero, but as we're talking about the exterior, the building and the look, there's the idea of setting up a subcommittee. So I, and the subcommittee would, if that's okay with you, just move that discussion to here, okay? So the idea would be a limited number of members of the committee would be on a subcommittee that would be focused on the exterior, some color palettes, like what, not necessarily where a mural might go, but we could identify that would be a good place for it. And Ninesco could be interactive with us on what it would look like if this versus that. And it would meet on the Fridays that the committee is not meeting. So it would be on the alternate Fridays and it wouldn't, it would be maybe an hour and a half. So there are two things. Ninesco thought this would help get more variations and then bring back a few ideas from, we heard a lot at the first presentation on the color of the bricks and the feeling of the school. It's an elementary school or it's an innovative school. So if people like that idea, I was gonna look for volunteers for serving on that. And again, it's a time commitment because we would still be meeting as the regular committee, but it probably would meet when I talked with them, maybe two or three times, so they could just be reacting and then react and then it would be coming back. So it wouldn't be an ongoing, so it's a working group. So if people like that idea, I'd like to see how many people would be interested in serving on it. Phoebe's hand is up. People didn't just put their hand up. I'm gonna put my hand up too. So is there anyone else? And this meeting would be a public meeting. It would be on Zoom and we would record it. So it's not that, if you don't do this, you wouldn't have any idea what we're talking about. So are there any objections to setting that up? We have four people. Any comments on it? Do. Yeah, Tammy. I mean, it's something I would like, I can just worry about time. So I don't know if it's like, if I can jump in when I can, or... No, I think absolutely. We've had, I'll use net zero. Sean is not officially on the net zero committee, but he's joined when he can, especially when we were talking about things that had to do with money. So, this would not be closed. It wouldn't be close to the public either. So the idea is not everyone has to volunteer. Paul. I think it's a great idea. I think, as long as we have to be cognizant of having a committee of this, the quorum of this committee, but certainly if you have a four member committee, which looks like we have four people who want to join, not me. And I think if that's, you could even have a fifth if you wanted to, there's someone who didn't, who had second thoughts. So I think we should actually take a motion to create this committee and I'll move that we create a subcommittee of up to five people to be appointed by the chair of the committee to meet regularly with the design team to talk about design. I'll second it. And Margaret will capture that motion and writing. Is there any other discussion? Seeing no further discussion, I'll take a vote and just be aware that we do have four volunteers. So send people volunteered. The chair will be appointing those four and everyone else is welcome. So I'm just gonna do a roll call vote going across. Paul. Yes. Jonathan. Yes. Rupert. Yes. Mike. Yes. Angelica. Yes. Ben. Yes. Tammy. Yes. Phoebe. Yes. Sean. Yes. Simone. Yes. And Kathy, SES. It's unanimous with two absent if I'm counting right. Okay, thank you all. And I, you know, the idea would be we'd either started 830 or nine, you know, in terms of an hour and a half. So I'll just pull the four people. If there's any preference on those start times and we'll go ahead and set that up. Thank you. We can go back to your, Phoebe's hand is up. Sorry, I was also wondering if before we lose people we wanted to talk about the time meeting time. Okay. I guess we did want to save that. So 940. Yes, I think that's fine. I mean, we can't afford to lose too many people or we'll lose a quorum, but we have a request. This is under the, you know, the, I'm not good at the public meeting law rules, but we have a 48 hour rule of a late breaking issue. And one of our members, Alicia Walker. Jonathan, do you have a comment? Is that? Yes. I know I'm jumping the gun before you fully formulated what we're about to discuss, but I can be flexible. I'll just put that out there that I can be flexible on meeting time. And with that, I have to start to prep to leave. So I will leave it to others to discuss and with the knowledge that personally I can be flexible. Okay. So one of our members, Alicia Walker has taken a job that makes it impossible to meet at our current meeting time. And she's offered two alternatives that would work for her. If we wanted to keep it on Friday, it would be a meeting. Let me just make sure, I sent the letter around this morning that I got. It would be one 30 or later on Friday would work for her. And then if it's another afternoon, it would have to be, let me just double check before I misstate it. Morgan, I sent it around this morning, maybe you have it. Okay. I'm just going to open it. It has to be later because she's teaching is the issue. Okay. So if it was other time, it would have to be, so I'm just looking, I think it's three 30 or later, but let me just see a four o'clock later. So if it's another afternoon needs to be four o'clock or later, and I quickly spoke with some others. There's a conflict on Tuesdays with another council meeting. There's a conflict on Wednesdays with the regular school committee. So it would be Thursday, four o'clock or later. So an afternoon meeting four to six or Friday, it could start as early as one 30. So I don't know the most efficient way of doing this. We posted initially, and I posted the charge to remind people that we initially took a morning meeting as the target in the charge because the experience in the earlier project was that we often lost the principals and the school people because of what was happening after school and evenings were not tenable so that we got intermittent participation rather than full participation. So that was one of the concerns and why we had asked people to make sure a morning slot worked for people. So any suggestions on how to do this? It's a question of, I could ask for how many people would it be impossible to shift the meeting to either one 30 Friday afternoon or four o'clock Thursday afternoon would be one way or any other comments that people want to make about this because she will not be able to participate any morning. So it's not a question of another morning, Sean. So my preference would be for Thursday but Paul and I would at times potentially have a conflict with the Jones Library Building Committee which has been me on Thursdays the last couple of weeks. So there might be a couple of meetings we would have to pick between one or the other. Does that mean at the same time slot? Typically meets at four 30, four or four 30. Okay, Phoebe? So I was just gonna say that I can go ahead and be flexible. I also, I just wanna kind of say sort of on a more general level, I think that Alisha is one of those people that has children that are going to be impacted by this project. And I think that if we can continue to foster people being on this committee who have children that are going to be affected, I think that it is hugely important for the perspective. And so whether or not it's her or someone else, I think that we just need to try to keep that in mind because I think that that's a really big, I think it's a huge asset to us. And it's a resource that we don't have a pun of on this committee. So I just wanted to point that out and sort of raise that while we're talking about and thinking about this. Mike. So in terms of my schedule, again, not speaking about anyone else's, Thursday afternoons, my attendance will be inconsistent. So I have new teacher orientation that I run and that often meets on Thursdays. I can try to configure those to not match, but there's lots of competing demands. So I just can't claim that I'll be consistent. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. Just, you know, I'll be inconsistent. I think Friday's at 1.30 actually is pretty reasonable for me. I'm a little concerned about building principles, Tammy and Allison and dismissal. So it means that you'll probably have them for 40 or 45 minutes. And safety comes first and they're gonna be out of buses because that's what they do every day at that time. So, you know, I'm not being helpful here, I suppose, but I just wanted to note that that's gonna be, I presume a conflict for Tammy and Allison's not here, but I know I see her dismissal. She's outside every day at dismissal, but on Thursday, it's just my attendance will be, you know, it's not that I can't be there any time, it's just gonna be inconsistent. Tammy, you know, when I said 1.30, it could be as early as 1.30. So it was, you know, it could be 2.30, 4.30, you know, so assuming people don't want a Friday evening meeting, but Tammy. But I have student meetings starting at 2.45, which hugely impacts the school. And then as Mike mentioned, dismissal. So you would have, you'd have me for about an hour on Friday and Thursday, again, would be inconsistent in terms of my attendance. Angelica. So I also want to second what Phoebe said that it's really important to have people that have children that will be impacted on the committee. I also completely understand the challenges of that. So I wanted to suggest, rather than deciding it right now, which is like knowing all our schedules and the complexity, it's hard for me to even think through that. So maybe a doodle poll that we can try to do internally is just one suggestion, where we can block off some times ahead of time that are already for certain committees. And we've already heard from administrators certain times that might not work like during pickups and, you know, after school. And then given that, see what might work for Alicia and then work from there. So a simple doodle poll is my suggestion. Okay, I think that's a good approach. And I'll try to put multiple times in the slots that the person who's asking for the change could work. So we don't have to say it's 130 or it's this. Mike. One other process suggestions that were like where Angelica was going with that is it could be that it alternates, right? So it could be that one week it's a certain time another week it's a different time or the next meeting. It's gonna require people who like myself who won't be at some meetings to do some homework and watch meetings they don't attend. I'm certainly willing to do it. But I think it's just another way cause I'm sensitive to the points that Angelica and Phoebe made. You know, as long as people are okay that me and Tammy and Allison may not be at some meetings we'll do our homework, I guarantee that. I don't know from a committee level, you know how people feel if we're not there that's not my decision to make but perhaps if we alternate them we could alternate topics some that are sort of more focused on having people who work in the schools there and staff members and others that maybe are less so just another idea to be sensitive to the points that were raised and again I'll do my best but just like Tammy said there's gonna be other things that are priorities that can't be shifted so. Okay, I think that will end this discussion for now and I will work with staff since I'm not a doodle pole master I had to figure out how to doodle pole it and then I know Sean with a conflict with the other building committee if it's meeting on an every other week schedule to try to look at that schedule I'm also really aware of how much work we need to get done so we have to not lose meetings altogether. So thank you so. Yeah, I can help you with the doodle pole of that. Thanks Margaret, that'd be great. Thank you. Okay, we have done that agenda item and Jonathan gave a vote by proxy but we can get a vote for real from him. Thank you. So I'm just, it's 10 minutes of 10, Tim so I think you're back on the agenda and then I'm just trying to check do we have invoices? So we need to make sure we get to them if we do have invoices. I think we have one invoice from Dinesco which should be correct. Okay, so I wanna make sure we leave time for that and we leave time for public comments. So with that in mind, Tim, you're on. I will do a brief version of a recap. Daylighting. And forgive me if I don't speak to these quite as eloquently as Armok and Alejandra did at the net zero meeting but the big picture things, why does it matter? Obviously it's to see in for comfort but there is a litany of studies that it approves lives in almost every measurable way of students and people who occupy these school buildings. With more daylight, your body's better too and so you sleep better. Student test scores are demonstrably and quantitatively improved. The quality of daylight in classrooms goes up. It also has benefits for social emotional well-being of the students and just overall academic performance is improved in every way if the quality of the light in space is better. So obviously we want light for daylighting but almost as equally important as getting light into the room is being able to see out that sense of connection to the exterior world has a very positive effect on the occupants of a school or any building. But light has to be led in a controlled way. Glare or temperature under performing heat can make a space uncomfortable which detracts from all of the positive benefits of the daylight. So there are multiple ways to think about daylighting in space now it's measured. One is the level. So more openings, more windows allows more light and much allows greater illumination and obviously the ability to see and do what you have to do in a school building. You also want to be visually comfortable meaning you don't want glare. So large variations in the brightness on surfaces can cause eye strain, headaches and general discomfort within a room. And then as I mentioned you want to be able to see to the outside all of these things make for a more comfortable environment and better outcomes for the students. And then another aspect of sunlight is you feel it. So if there are large windows with lots of light streaming in it affects your comfort. You know, it sounds appealing on a winter day to have sunlight coming in and you feel that warmth but there's flip side to that coin. If it's very hot outside you can be uncomfortable in the summer and overheated. So all of these factors have to be controlled through the design of the openings and the windows within the building. There are quantitative ways that we measure all of these factors, daylight, the level of light in the room, the amount of glare through both physically measuring it and through software modeling of spaces as we design and build them. And then those measures are used by various accreditation like lead and ships. There are numerous ways, some of them sort of arcane and technical but they all give a qualitative amount to allow the amount of light in the space, the amount of glare and the percentage of views that you have in rooms. So this just goes over the metrics that are used by the various systems. As of now we are using lead which we have discussed. It's called SDA 3,350. It's the spatial daylight autonomy. It's basically a measure of the level of light at a desktop surface throughout a room and then the amount of glare in a room which is measured by the amount of direct light on a certain percentage of the floor room. These are overall general good ways to determine light levels in room and they are used by leads and ships but there are things specific to schools that make them maybe not the perfect way to measure daylight design for a classroom. Classrooms are rather deep. They tend to have windows on one side for all sorts of reasons. It makes getting full light deeper into the classroom difficult and then the metrics themselves were set up not for schools specifically but for building in general. So with all of the various types of building, the office buildings, apartment buildings, there is no one size fits all metrics. So if we don't get the lead points or all of the lead points for daylighting we can still achieve a quality, very high quality daylighting design. And this just highlights this metrics that the various reading systems do in fact meet. And here is just a reiteration of why the metrics that lead use are useful but maybe not the end all and be all evaluating the daylight design. And then working with Thornton study we will use software, we will use building models to measure the amount of light that gets into the room with the various elevation studies and as a rubric if you will to measure the design options that we put in front of you. And then we have a lot of tools in our toolbox to control the amount of light that lets in the glare that happens. One is the placement of and size of the openings obviously another is interior and exterior shading like shelves or sunshades on the exterior. But we have had discussions about their usefulness in this climate but they are always there as an option. We have to lay out the plan in a way that where light gets in it is most useful and not producing glare on teaching surfaces or surfaces where you will be using the wall. And then we also have to choose all of the materials so that they will appropriately reflect or bounce light within the spaces. And these are all things that we will consider as we further into the design of the building. And so that's the background that we will have as the discussion as we present options for classroom window options as we move windows up and down on a wall as we move them to the side, to the center just something that we will revisit and have as context as we evaluate future design options. And that's Kathy. Just a quick comment. As people might remember a meeting or two ago we had an offer from another design company that had done a presentation on day lighting and it focused on a school that's being built Gardner School and Tim got a copy of the architecture conference presentation that was done there where they go through a lot more technical than what Tim just did on how you measure each thing but they also give some examples in this school that's gonna be built. And we couldn't figure out a way to schedule it without bumping some of the other things we need to do but I was gonna send everyone a link to that and also put it in our agenda so that any public that wants to do it so there's a link to both the architecture group presentation and to a link to the Gardner project which we can't go see because it's been well we can go see it's just got steel and framing up it's not built yet. So I was gonna make that available and my understanding Tim is that we will get much more technical presentation once you do the modeling of what you're actually thinking of doing in our school is that correct? Yeah. That is correct. We will have our mark and I'll lay back and we will, you know, quantify measure and technically analyze you know what we were proposing. Yeah, so I'll make sure Margaret has the links in the minutes of this meeting as a way because it's a big presentation. So and otherwise I'll just set it where you can click on it and look at whatever part of it you want. It's a big file. So I just wanted to add that as a note. I think, are there any other comments on this? You know, when we heard this I'll just say one thing from the net zero subcommittee the Thompson-Thomasetti team that was talking about this there was a level of total excitement about getting light into the classroom. So I think that's what we're light into the classroom and looking out like, you know, having that connectedness to the out of doors. So as and and that's clearly one of if you go around our current schools one of the places you wish wish it had happened in 1970 or 1973 more. So I think it's something that we're going to be wanting to focus probably a lengthier session on Tim when you're ready. So that we're not doing it. We're not doing the try to add it later but added as we're thinking of what this looks like. So I guess we if we have the invoices and there are any of the comments, let's do invoices and then open it up for public comment. Margaret, do you want me to share the invoice or do you have it? I actually have it up. So if we do that, everybody see that? So this is Dinesco's most recent invoice, which was just just received. It has just scroll up here, make that go away. So this has on this cover page. You'll see that they're noting that the request for this period is this number here, the 5721325. And then on the subsequent pages, they have the background of what that's for. So some of it is for schematic design. I believe some of it is for some reimbursable expenses. A little bit of solar and I'll just scroll through the rest. This is solar designs invoice. That is up. So do I hear, I'll make a motion to approve the invoice as we then second him and I will go around the room. Paul. Yes. Rupert. Yes. Mike. Yes. Angelica. Yes. Ben. Yes. Tammy. Yes. Sean. Yes. Simone. Yes. Bebe. Yes. And Kathy is a yes. It's unanimous with three absent. Okay. Are there any other comments, requests about agenda items, anything else? And people can after the meeting can certainly send me questions. I have, you know, we've received multiple public lengthy comments and as I'm getting those and they come to us, I'm forwarding them directly to the designers. So it's in the loop. I don't see any hands. So I'm going to open it for public comment. So I guess I can figure out how to do it. I'm going to, okay. Bruce. Bruce is here. Okay, Bruce. Bruce, you've joined us. Yes. I just wanted to add one comment to the, can you hear me? Yes. Good. To the conversation at the very beginning about pitch roofs versus flat roofs on buildings. And I can go with everything that was said, but I think it's worth also adding one further observation. And that is with large buildings or with any buildings with sloping roof, the snow is shed from the roof. And with large buildings, with large roofs, the volume of snow that's and ice, not just snow sometimes, the shed can be dangerous when you have exits and so forth around the building. So keeping the snow on the building in the way in which Tim has described that can be done safely actually has a public safety benefit as well. I want to applaud the design team on the methodology that is being used for the daylighting study. It's very encouraging to me. And Tim, I want to thank you for sourcing the Jones, the Margot Jones, Dan Weisman, at least a her song presentation, which I was able to look through and I can mend it to others as well. And I'm hoping that our project here will achieve approximately the same level of daylighting performance that the elementary school, the under construction in Gardner, which is the primary example in that presentation is achieving last week or last time or earlier, I was very enthusiastic that we should have measurable objectives and Tim has explained the limitations, the somewhat limitations of the measurable objectives that are generally applied to buildings as a whole as schools. And I'm thinking that the measurable objective that might be useful for us would be the Gardner school, which looks as though it's a really excellent example of achieving daylighting classroom. So thank you all very much. Thank you, Bruce. So Rudy, we have brought you in. Hi, thanks so much, Rudy Perkins-Amherst. I really appreciate the massing study so we can get a 3D conception of this much better. Thank you so much for all the work Danisco has done on this. Couple of quick thoughts. The media room and the music room have been moved to the end of the building which we wanna like emphasize for entrance. And I think those will be very interesting spaces because of their higher roofs and the activities in them and the collections and so forth. I'm wondering if more glass on the entrance end, the west end of those could be used to use those rooms as sort of a artistic or design feature. I realize there's a glare issue likely because of the western facing nature of those but I think if we can design around that somehow we should think about making them their visual appearance sort of appear to help advertise that into the building. Some things that are expensive could be used in very small quantities, I'm thinking like printed phenolic resin panels or photochromic glass. Like say we did wanna emphasize the west windows into a couple of rooms like that. Maybe some very judicious use of photochromic glass. I have no idea on the cost, I'm sure it's expensive but expensive things in small measure may be a solution sometimes. I like very much the idea of opening the cafeteria to the outside but I'm worried about school security issues. And I know restaurants have solved this sometimes by creating courtyards or fenced areas that are accessible only from interior doors. You got an issue of how that feels to people. You don't want it to look like a prison. So, but maybe we need to look at that cause I suspect those doors would not be monitored as well and we don't wanna undo all of our other security measures. And I think that's it, thank you. Thank you, Rudy. Maria. Thank you. The committee members will know that I had sent a public comment about the community fields and I want to talk more about that. I really do think that it's important that there is an opportunity for public input by the variety of individual users and groups who use these fields on a very regular basis. I gave you some thoughts that I had based on my use and my observations but I don't know what size fields the soccer people need and what the ultimate players need and cross and the basketball users. So, the only way to get that information is to have a public meeting where that can happen and perhaps that can be one of the first things that the design group does is to get that input sooner rather than later before you start making any final decisions. I'm also a bit concerned about the kind of non-answer I heard who is taking lead on the CPA funding. This will be, I would think this would be a real priority to get into this year's round of funding such that when this comes to the public for a dead student override in the spring we demonstrated that look, we're doing everything we can to decrease the burden on individual taxpayers. I think it's really important to get this done. We're already a third of the way through the month of September. Those things are due on September 30th. Now, individual, I mean, I can write a CPA proposal but I would suspect that the town that is in charge of community use would have more authority there, more information could put together a better application. And I think that needs to get done and having this meeting of the community, of users of these fields is critical to happen right away so that application goes forward with as much information as possible. You're gonna get more support for this project the more that you let community members know that you're watching their pocketbooks and you're watching their resources and their opportunities. Thank you. Thank you, Maria. I do not see any other public comments. So I want to, I think I'm looking around, I'm looking around the room, I'm looking around the screen. So, and I don't see any other hands up. So Mike has made a suggestion on whether we might all want to meet as a group. And I don't know whether it's physically possible at Fort River to do a walk around but we'll explore whether that would literally just be not a meeting meeting, but like a team walk through if Dinesco can come. So I will be back in touch with people about that and a doodle poll, a doodle poll on whether we can shift the meeting. Until we shift, you should keep the agenda shifting that we, the agenda that we already have. So we're meeting again in two weeks on a Friday morning, unless we shift it. So keep that in your calendar. And I'm not seeing any others. So I think we can adjourn. And I want to thank Dinesco because I know you've been very busy. They've been out here more often than we would know because they're walking the bounds and they're also, I just touched base yesterday briefly but really engaging staff on how do you use your spaces now? What works about them? Well, that you don't want to lose and what can we fix? So that interaction as will lead to the massing projects we're starting to see of, you know where exactly are the rooms in relation to each other? So thank you very much. And I also got to see Tammy in action. She leads little children around playing basketball on her lunch break, which was great to see. So thank you all very much. And I wish you a great weekend. We are adjourned. Goodbye.